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Men, Women, and Children
The author of "The Average American Male" and "The Lie" returns with a shocking and salacious--yet surprisingly rich and subtle--new novel of the average American family.
In this, his most ambitious and surprising book yet, Kultgen explores the sexual pressures at work on two different generations navigating the same Internet landscape: junior high school students and their parents.
Among the families traced in Men, Women & Children:
•Kent, a recent divorcé re-entering the dating world—and his son, Tim, a football star-turned-World of Warcraft-addict, who learns via Facebook that his mom is getting remarried.
• Dawn, a single mom who charges anonymous men $12.95 a month to view suggestive online pictures of her daughter, Hannah—who wants to lose her v-card before any other eighth grader.
• Don, who sneaks onto any available computer for his daily fix of streaming porn—and his son, Chris, whose porn tastes make his father’s look like Disney.
• Patricia, who is determined to keep the demons of the Internet from preying on her daughter, Brandy—who uses her secret MySpace identity to try on an alternative Goth identity and blog about threesomes she’s never had.
Whether thirteen or thirty-five, Kultgen’s characters inhabit a world where privacy is non-existent, sex is currency, and information never disappears—yet happiness is still a dream
In this, his most ambitious and surprising book yet, Kultgen explores the sexual pressures at work on two different generations navigating the same Internet landscape: junior high school students and their parents.
Among the families traced in Men, Women & Children:
•Kent, a recent divorcé re-entering the dating world—and his son, Tim, a football star-turned-World of Warcraft-addict, who learns via Facebook that his mom is getting remarried.
• Dawn, a single mom who charges anonymous men $12.95 a month to view suggestive online pictures of her daughter, Hannah—who wants to lose her v-card before any other eighth grader.
• Don, who sneaks onto any available computer for his daily fix of streaming porn—and his son, Chris, whose porn tastes make his father’s look like Disney.
• Patricia, who is determined to keep the demons of the Internet from preying on her daughter, Brandy—who uses her secret MySpace identity to try on an alternative Goth identity and blog about threesomes she’s never had.
Whether thirteen or thirty-five, Kultgen’s characters inhabit a world where privacy is non-existent, sex is currency, and information never disappears—yet happiness is still a dream
317 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 2011
97 people are currently reading
3148 people want to read
About the author
Chad Kultgen
14 books395 followersAfter two months in his birthplace Spokane, WA Chad Kultgen spent the majority of his life in a suburb of Dallas, TX called Lewisville. After high school, he turned down a full ride baseball scholarship to Trinity University in San Antonio, TX to pursue writing. He moved to Los Angeles, CA where he joined the likes of George Lucas, Robert Zemekis, and Ron Howard as a graduate of the prestigious School Of Cinema/Television at the University of Southern California.
His first job was writing for one of the most widely circulated trade magazines in the music industry, HITS. After two years of being entrenched with rock-stars and their entourages, Chad moved on to become a staff writer for one of American Media's most beloved supermarket tabloids. He created stories about flesh eating zombies, time-traveling stock traders, and
sandwich making house cats for the magazine that gave birth to Batboy, THE WEEKLY WORLD NEWS.
Chad's next endeavor found him selling his first TV show to VH1. The reality show POSERS featured Chad himself along with two of his real life friends posing as various unrecognizable celebrities to get behind Hollywood's velvet rope. VH1 made a pilot episode in which Chad posed as the bass player from the band Maroon 5 in order to infiltrate one of Hollywood's hottest and most exclusive nightclubs. Once inside he proceeded to drink free champagne and use his fake celebrity to escort five female stars of the adult entertainment industry back to his limo. Despite the success of the pilot internally, a perfectly timed regime change at VH1 left Chad with nothing but DVD of the night's events and the paragraph you just read for his troubles.
In addition to writing the pilot episode of The Average American Male, Chad's feature screenplay BURT DICKENSON: THE MOST POWERFUL MAGICIAN ON PLANET EARTH is currently in the process of being optioned by NEW LINE CINEMA.
His first job was writing for one of the most widely circulated trade magazines in the music industry, HITS. After two years of being entrenched with rock-stars and their entourages, Chad moved on to become a staff writer for one of American Media's most beloved supermarket tabloids. He created stories about flesh eating zombies, time-traveling stock traders, and
sandwich making house cats for the magazine that gave birth to Batboy, THE WEEKLY WORLD NEWS.
Chad's next endeavor found him selling his first TV show to VH1. The reality show POSERS featured Chad himself along with two of his real life friends posing as various unrecognizable celebrities to get behind Hollywood's velvet rope. VH1 made a pilot episode in which Chad posed as the bass player from the band Maroon 5 in order to infiltrate one of Hollywood's hottest and most exclusive nightclubs. Once inside he proceeded to drink free champagne and use his fake celebrity to escort five female stars of the adult entertainment industry back to his limo. Despite the success of the pilot internally, a perfectly timed regime change at VH1 left Chad with nothing but DVD of the night's events and the paragraph you just read for his troubles.
In addition to writing the pilot episode of The Average American Male, Chad's feature screenplay BURT DICKENSON: THE MOST POWERFUL MAGICIAN ON PLANET EARTH is currently in the process of being optioned by NEW LINE CINEMA.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 434 reviews
August 29, 2015
I struggled with writing a review for this one. I was really looking forward to the movie and thought it looked like it really touched on things that are going on with our children etc.
So I picked up the book before watching the movie. I was caught way off guard as most of the situations in the book seem highly unlikely for 8th graders...Yep....8th GRADERS!!
Come on now I know that times have changed blah blah blah but there's no way there's THAT many
children starting all of this stuff (sex, drugs & drinking) this early. Yes I can see experimentation
happening in some groups at that age but this was ridiculous. I know there is a lot of interest and conversations and probably "research" happening but it's just quite the jump. I won't go in to too much detail because I don't want to give any spoilers but also because I am not comfortable discussing some of the situations. Honestly I'm no prude...but the age of the children just makes it too unbelievable. I feel like most of the situations were just for shock value.
Maybe I would have found it more believable if the kids were in High School? (They may have been High School age in the movie) I don't know.
I believe that our children should be educated about drugs, alcohol, relationships, addiction, social media, and sexual education is extremely important. I know that has changed as years have gone by with new technology, the internet etc.
Others may say this novel is about things families do not like to talk about and that may be true in some ways but way way over the top. Even the adult situations are so extreme. In Chad Kultgens books it seems like every married couple cheats and sex is above all else. Again, yes in some relationships but I would really doubt it's the norm.
It seems as though almost every single person is very unhappy or depressed. So many of the characters seem to be going downhill right from the beginning. Reading it can be depressing.
Extreme worst case scenarios. Miserable unhappy people with empty lives and unhappy children. Again...depressing.
All that being said some of the dangers of technology and social media are worth noting. Times have changed and yes there is a lot more out there and it can be easier to get into trouble both adults and children alike.
Wasn't a complete bomb as I did finish the book and also watched the movie. Just very disappointed on how the lives of these characters was depicted.
So I picked up the book before watching the movie. I was caught way off guard as most of the situations in the book seem highly unlikely for 8th graders...Yep....8th GRADERS!!
Come on now I know that times have changed blah blah blah but there's no way there's THAT many
children starting all of this stuff (sex, drugs & drinking) this early. Yes I can see experimentation
happening in some groups at that age but this was ridiculous. I know there is a lot of interest and conversations and probably "research" happening but it's just quite the jump. I won't go in to too much detail because I don't want to give any spoilers but also because I am not comfortable discussing some of the situations. Honestly I'm no prude...but the age of the children just makes it too unbelievable. I feel like most of the situations were just for shock value.
Maybe I would have found it more believable if the kids were in High School? (They may have been High School age in the movie) I don't know.
I believe that our children should be educated about drugs, alcohol, relationships, addiction, social media, and sexual education is extremely important. I know that has changed as years have gone by with new technology, the internet etc.
Others may say this novel is about things families do not like to talk about and that may be true in some ways but way way over the top. Even the adult situations are so extreme. In Chad Kultgens books it seems like every married couple cheats and sex is above all else. Again, yes in some relationships but I would really doubt it's the norm.
It seems as though almost every single person is very unhappy or depressed. So many of the characters seem to be going downhill right from the beginning. Reading it can be depressing.
Extreme worst case scenarios. Miserable unhappy people with empty lives and unhappy children. Again...depressing.
All that being said some of the dangers of technology and social media are worth noting. Times have changed and yes there is a lot more out there and it can be easier to get into trouble both adults and children alike.
Wasn't a complete bomb as I did finish the book and also watched the movie. Just very disappointed on how the lives of these characters was depicted.
October 25, 2014
Trash. This is the second book I've read by Chad Kultgen and I am convinced this author's objective is not to entertain or enlighten. His sole objective is to shock and horrify. Mission accomplished. I don't know how they were able to turn this book into a movie without running the risk of being arrested for the production of kiddie porn. Some serious edits would have had to have been made. Throw in cheating spouses soliciting sex via ashleymadison.com and online purchases of dates with prostitutes, anti-depressant drugs for 13-year olds and teen suicide attempts and there you have Men, Women & Children. By far, the worst, most disturbing book I've ever read. The first two sentences of the book set off warning bells but I'm no quitter so I pushed through hoping it would get better. A regrettable decision on my part.
May 5, 2015
Read this book if you're super into detailed descriptions of 13 year olds having sex. Honestly, I've never scoffed more. I think at one point I threw it but I'm not a quitter. I never would have read this book if it hadn't been loaned to me. All I kept thinking was, "Of course this was written by someone named Chad."
June 3, 2011
I always feel the need to go to confession after reading a Chad Kultgen novel. I could not put this book down!
This book follows the lives of a group of 13 year olds and their parents in a suburban town. I really enjoyed tapping into the thought processes of these teens as they dealt with issues like depression, losing one’s virginity, anorexia, dealing with divorce…the list goes on and on. I felt knowledgeable after reading this. I felt informed. But the process of learning is an uncomfortable one. Imagine the X rated version of The Babysitters Club. Among the adults, sexual dysfunction and infidelity is common and with that comes some very descriptive encounters. Brace yourself.
Men Women and Children attempts to answer the question "what will the kids who have grown up in the internet age be like?". This is a fascinating topic and why I love this book so much. Kultgen paints a realistic picture of what the new generation of technology driven youth might look like. Much like Brett Easton Ellis taps into the nothingness of the 80’s under the influence of drugs, Men Women and Children taps into the nothingness of the 2000’s under the influence of technology. Kultgen’s book shows a reality I wish wasn’t so. I could tell myself “this is only fiction” but, c’mon, let’s get real. After reading this book I question why I haven’t heard of more books, movies, college lectures, statistics, etc. that ask questions about the new breed. This is an important field of study and this novel has sparked my interest to do further research on the topic.
This book follows the lives of a group of 13 year olds and their parents in a suburban town. I really enjoyed tapping into the thought processes of these teens as they dealt with issues like depression, losing one’s virginity, anorexia, dealing with divorce…the list goes on and on. I felt knowledgeable after reading this. I felt informed. But the process of learning is an uncomfortable one. Imagine the X rated version of The Babysitters Club. Among the adults, sexual dysfunction and infidelity is common and with that comes some very descriptive encounters. Brace yourself.
Men Women and Children attempts to answer the question "what will the kids who have grown up in the internet age be like?". This is a fascinating topic and why I love this book so much. Kultgen paints a realistic picture of what the new generation of technology driven youth might look like. Much like Brett Easton Ellis taps into the nothingness of the 80’s under the influence of drugs, Men Women and Children taps into the nothingness of the 2000’s under the influence of technology. Kultgen’s book shows a reality I wish wasn’t so. I could tell myself “this is only fiction” but, c’mon, let’s get real. After reading this book I question why I haven’t heard of more books, movies, college lectures, statistics, etc. that ask questions about the new breed. This is an important field of study and this novel has sparked my interest to do further research on the topic.
January 7, 2015
This is the worst book I've read in a long, long time. If I could give it less than one star I would. I'm rather ashamed that I actually finished it. The only reason I can give is that I had to see if there was some reason that it got published ... and then made into a movie.
Alas, no. Just the worst possible, most banal and cliched dialogue since my freshman year of college. Seriously, did this guy never take a writing class that told him the stuff he was supposed to leave out? And did he learn how people talk by watching movies? Because teens and parents don't speak like this. No one does in the real world.
And that's not even mentioning the plot, which is supposed to be a shocking expose of suburban life but is only a sad cataloging of internet rigamarole. Such a poor man's Chuck Palahniuk. Such a 14-generation copy of American Beauty.
I am unclean.
Alas, no. Just the worst possible, most banal and cliched dialogue since my freshman year of college. Seriously, did this guy never take a writing class that told him the stuff he was supposed to leave out? And did he learn how people talk by watching movies? Because teens and parents don't speak like this. No one does in the real world.
And that's not even mentioning the plot, which is supposed to be a shocking expose of suburban life but is only a sad cataloging of internet rigamarole. Such a poor man's Chuck Palahniuk. Such a 14-generation copy of American Beauty.
I am unclean.
June 11, 2015
Well, this was disturbing. But also good. Probably the most horrifyingly honest unflinching account of teenage sexuality since 1995 movie Kids. Comparatively, the adults' sexual exploits in the book are positively vanilla. So yes, there is lots of sex in this book, copious amounts even. And yet the primary theme here is the lack of communication or the imperfection of the communication had between parents, lovers and friends. Also this was a very astute exposition on the pressures the ever prevalent social media puts on the youth. This is precisely the sort of book that helps understand all the warped psychology of things that go unspoken in daily life. Not to mention you'll never look at a teenager the same way again. While the explicit sexual nature of the book might make it seem as crass or vulgar, it is the behind the scenes mechanisms and motivations that make this such a clever and interesting read. I liked the writing style as well, very matter of fact and direct, which worked excellently for a book about misperceptions and indirectness. Recommended.
July 23, 2011
My thoughts:
I'm a huge fan of Chad Kultgen's novels. I happened across "The Lie" (Chad Kultgen's 2nd book) a year or two ago and devoured it. As soon as I finished "The Lie", I immediately picked up "The Average American Male"(his first book), which I finished in a day. I bought Men, Women and Children on the day it released, I was so excited to read it.
I was slightly disappointed. In his other two novels I really felt like we were building up to something. This novel had no real clear ending. Nothing really HAPPENED throughout the book. It seemed to be nothing more than a glimpse into a wide group of people's personal lives. If you really sit down and think about it the subject matter in this book is kind of heavy. It explores the internet generation's extreme access to sex and how it affects young teens. It also explores sex (or the lack of) between married couples.
The characters were very interesting. However, a few of them seemed very similar to each other. It was hard for me to differentiate between some of them. One of my favorite parts of the book was how he gave both viewpoints between two junior high kids that liked each other, but were both too self-conscious and insecure to act on their feelings. It definitely reminded me of the misgivings I had when I was in junior-high. "Does he like me? Should I talk to him?" etc...
Though I did have a problem with the plot, his writing is (as always) superb. This book is mainly based around sex. It's graphic, crude and crass. If you're easily offended I would definitely recommend staying away from this book. It's not erotica or anything like that, but the main topic is sex. His books are more MAN-ish books (like I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell, but more....?literary?).
The Lie is still my favorite of Chad Kultgen's novels, but I'll be eagerly awaiting his next novel and will probably buy it on the release date. His voice and writing style are very unique, so I really hope he releases another novel next year. I'll be waiting til I can get my next Chad Kultgen fix!
Judge a Book By It's Cover:
I really like his covers. Even though his books aren't a series, all the covers match! Although the covers don't seem to reveal much, they intrigue me since they are so plain.
I'm a huge fan of Chad Kultgen's novels. I happened across "The Lie" (Chad Kultgen's 2nd book) a year or two ago and devoured it. As soon as I finished "The Lie", I immediately picked up "The Average American Male"(his first book), which I finished in a day. I bought Men, Women and Children on the day it released, I was so excited to read it.
I was slightly disappointed. In his other two novels I really felt like we were building up to something. This novel had no real clear ending. Nothing really HAPPENED throughout the book. It seemed to be nothing more than a glimpse into a wide group of people's personal lives. If you really sit down and think about it the subject matter in this book is kind of heavy. It explores the internet generation's extreme access to sex and how it affects young teens. It also explores sex (or the lack of) between married couples.
The characters were very interesting. However, a few of them seemed very similar to each other. It was hard for me to differentiate between some of them. One of my favorite parts of the book was how he gave both viewpoints between two junior high kids that liked each other, but were both too self-conscious and insecure to act on their feelings. It definitely reminded me of the misgivings I had when I was in junior-high. "Does he like me? Should I talk to him?" etc...
Though I did have a problem with the plot, his writing is (as always) superb. This book is mainly based around sex. It's graphic, crude and crass. If you're easily offended I would definitely recommend staying away from this book. It's not erotica or anything like that, but the main topic is sex. His books are more MAN-ish books (like I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell, but more....?literary?).
The Lie is still my favorite of Chad Kultgen's novels, but I'll be eagerly awaiting his next novel and will probably buy it on the release date. His voice and writing style are very unique, so I really hope he releases another novel next year. I'll be waiting til I can get my next Chad Kultgen fix!
Judge a Book By It's Cover:
I really like his covers. Even though his books aren't a series, all the covers match! Although the covers don't seem to reveal much, they intrigue me since they are so plain.
October 31, 2017
"Vidas Opostas" ou "Vidas Duplas", seriam os títulos que eu daria a este livro...
Muitos caracterizam esta leitura de chocante, por vezes bastante pornográfica, eu acho que é simplesmente realista, mas que deixa algum amargo na boca.
É certo que o livro tem muitas personagens, cada uma com os seus desaires e frustrações, mas é um acompanhamento que vai fluindo sem grandes dificuldades.
De salientar que à excepção dos pais, vamos acompanhando a vida de adolescentes e como eles lidam com as novas tecnologias.
Opinião aqui: http://baudatanocas.blogs.sapo.pt/hom...
Muitos caracterizam esta leitura de chocante, por vezes bastante pornográfica, eu acho que é simplesmente realista, mas que deixa algum amargo na boca.
É certo que o livro tem muitas personagens, cada uma com os seus desaires e frustrações, mas é um acompanhamento que vai fluindo sem grandes dificuldades.
De salientar que à excepção dos pais, vamos acompanhando a vida de adolescentes e como eles lidam com as novas tecnologias.
Opinião aqui: http://baudatanocas.blogs.sapo.pt/hom...
September 26, 2014
When I finished this book, my only thought was "wow". It wasn't a 'wow' that was an awesome book, it was more like wow, what did I just read?! This book addressed some pretty tough but real life situations that adults and teenagers go through on a daily basis. This book brought up topics that a lot of people shy away from. I wasn't too keen on some of the language that Chad Kultgen used throughout most of the book, but I understand it is apart of his writing style and it wasn't meant to be a YA read. I found myself asking does this really happen in middle school? If it does, I must be really sheltered and I'm ok with that. But my heart goes out for every single teenager who might be dealing with similar situations that pressure them to do certain things that make them uncomfortable or make them feel like they have to act or eat a certain way to fit in.
January 2, 2016
O livro retrata personagens adultos e seus filhos na faixa dos 13-15 anos em situações cotidianas e mostra como somos impulsionados por nossas frustrações, egoísmos, necessidade doentia de controle e de aprovação, e como fingimos para nós mesmos que tudo não passa de decisões racionais. Quem tenta fugir desse esquema doentia é visto como pária por quem ficou para trás.
No começo é tudo muito picotado e confuso, mas conforme o autor, e por consequência o leitor, se sente mais à vontade com os múltiplos pontos de vista, fica difícil parar de ler. É deprimente por ser muito real. E é uma leitura e tanto. Fica de recomendação. Esperem uma resenha completa no Estranho Mundo em breve.
No começo é tudo muito picotado e confuso, mas conforme o autor, e por consequência o leitor, se sente mais à vontade com os múltiplos pontos de vista, fica difícil parar de ler. É deprimente por ser muito real. E é uma leitura e tanto. Fica de recomendação. Esperem uma resenha completa no Estranho Mundo em breve.
July 13, 2011
I have a sort of love/hate thing going with Chad Kultgen's books. In "The Average American Male", it seemed like he worded everything for shock value and the biggest cringe factor he could get. But after polling some of my average American guy friends about some of the points in the book, most said, "Ya, that's pretty much right." "The Lie", Kultgen's second book centering the concept of the man/woman relationship dynamic was just as brutal to my tender heart, and polled, once again, as pretty accurate in my guy-friends pool.
So, when I received the third book, "Men, Women and Children", I was very afraid. But, as I began to read it, I recognized all sorts of people I know in its pages. I don't need to poll this time. Kultgen still speaks the truth, albeit in the most graphic, TMI, sexual way possible, but somehow gentler than he has before (don't ask me to explain that, I'm still working through that myself). This book deals with families, and all the relationships that are involved, and all of the secrets they keep from each other. There is a profound emotionality to this book that hasn't been present before--there are moments of genuine heart-break in these pages that are stark, raw, and desperately true. These stories are digging much farther than the grubby surface to something dark but meaningful, almost illuminating. This is far from a comfortable or easy read, but I found it to be
rather profound (as well as profane--don't say I didn't warn you), and I'm still struggling with some of the ideas that are brought up in it. I'm impressed, to say the least.
So, when I received the third book, "Men, Women and Children", I was very afraid. But, as I began to read it, I recognized all sorts of people I know in its pages. I don't need to poll this time. Kultgen still speaks the truth, albeit in the most graphic, TMI, sexual way possible, but somehow gentler than he has before (don't ask me to explain that, I'm still working through that myself). This book deals with families, and all the relationships that are involved, and all of the secrets they keep from each other. There is a profound emotionality to this book that hasn't been present before--there are moments of genuine heart-break in these pages that are stark, raw, and desperately true. These stories are digging much farther than the grubby surface to something dark but meaningful, almost illuminating. This is far from a comfortable or easy read, but I found it to be
rather profound (as well as profane--don't say I didn't warn you), and I'm still struggling with some of the ideas that are brought up in it. I'm impressed, to say the least.
September 19, 2014
Nope, nope, nope. I got to 113 and had to stop.
The first sentence? Anus. The second sentence? Penis. Sexual acts a'plenty, most of them on underage jr high students. That's not a book I want to read. With the number of sexual acts in here, I felt like I was reading softcore porn. No thanks.
It gets two stars because the characters were well-crafted. You got a feel for why they were engaging in the adultery, self-gratifying, and ill-conceived acts that they were. But between seeking out prostitutes and exploiting their daughters' looks for money, I didn't want to finish this book.
However, out of curiosity I flipped towards the end. Well, at least one of the relationships was healthy. Of course, one of the characters was driven to suicide. Blech.
The first sentence? Anus. The second sentence? Penis. Sexual acts a'plenty, most of them on underage jr high students. That's not a book I want to read. With the number of sexual acts in here, I felt like I was reading softcore porn. No thanks.
It gets two stars because the characters were well-crafted. You got a feel for why they were engaging in the adultery, self-gratifying, and ill-conceived acts that they were. But between seeking out prostitutes and exploiting their daughters' looks for money, I didn't want to finish this book.
However, out of curiosity I flipped towards the end. Well, at least one of the relationships was healthy. Of course, one of the characters was driven to suicide. Blech.
January 10, 2023
My general rule for reviews is that I don’t leave one for a book I didn’t finish and I only DNF if I’ve made it to at least page 50. I told myself on page 2 of MW&C that if I was still unimpressed by page 50 I would just give up. By the time I read that far, I was so grossed out and horrified by how much worse the book got that I had to finish just so I could leave a nasty review.
I am not one to shy away from anal on the opening page to a novel, but I WOULD appreciate if it weren’t mentioned in the same paragraph as someone’s child. You’d think by page 50 there would be some semblance of a plot, but up to then the single driving plot point was an eighth grader trying to suck her boyfriend’s dick. Literary masterpiece.
There’s really only one reason I can assume a grown man would be this obsessed with talking about eighth graders and sex in the same thought. I was in middle school far more recently than Chad Kultgen was and as preoccupied as we were with the opposite sex, and as disgusting as middle school boys are, Kultgen still manages to push his characters to a boundary that we were simply not aware of when I was 13. It was a decade ago now, don’t get me wrong, but I guarantee I remember more about being 13- a 13yo girl for that matter- than this 46 year old dude. Forgive me if I’m mistaken- I’m not- but I don’t think he was a teenage girl when he began writing it. In fact, looking at the copyright page, he was in his thirties and /I/ was actually in middle school, not doing any of the shit Kultgen fantasizes middle school girls do.
(For the record, anyone who still calls middle school “junior high” in 2011 is too old to be writing about it.)
I’m not trying to claim that middle schoolers are virtuous, or that none of them are sexually active, but I would dare say a grown man puts much more deviant thoughts in their heads than they’re capable of. Free access to the internet or not- after all, it’s not any easier or harder to find porn than it was a decade ago. I won’t speak for the accuracy of his repulsive, misogynistic, predatory adult male characters, seems to be pretty in line with my experience of most grown men, but I have to say I don’t enjoy the same deviant behavior and consciousness being applied to little girls. I especially don’t like being reminded, over and over and in these exact words, that the objectification of said girls is just fine because they like it.
If believing Men Women & Children is poorly-disguised pedophile spank bank material makes me prudish, call me Sister Mary and fetch my wimple.
And honestly, how many people who read actually give a flying fuck about SIX different middle school football game blow-by-blows? I suspect Chad, like many of his namesake and every one of his pathetic characters, peaked at 14. That’s the only non-pedophilic reason I can imagine that “explains” his predilection for writing about the breasts of teenage girls and fixation on children’s sports games.
I am not one to shy away from anal on the opening page to a novel, but I WOULD appreciate if it weren’t mentioned in the same paragraph as someone’s child. You’d think by page 50 there would be some semblance of a plot, but up to then the single driving plot point was an eighth grader trying to suck her boyfriend’s dick. Literary masterpiece.
There’s really only one reason I can assume a grown man would be this obsessed with talking about eighth graders and sex in the same thought. I was in middle school far more recently than Chad Kultgen was and as preoccupied as we were with the opposite sex, and as disgusting as middle school boys are, Kultgen still manages to push his characters to a boundary that we were simply not aware of when I was 13. It was a decade ago now, don’t get me wrong, but I guarantee I remember more about being 13- a 13yo girl for that matter- than this 46 year old dude. Forgive me if I’m mistaken- I’m not- but I don’t think he was a teenage girl when he began writing it. In fact, looking at the copyright page, he was in his thirties and /I/ was actually in middle school, not doing any of the shit Kultgen fantasizes middle school girls do.
(For the record, anyone who still calls middle school “junior high” in 2011 is too old to be writing about it.)
I’m not trying to claim that middle schoolers are virtuous, or that none of them are sexually active, but I would dare say a grown man puts much more deviant thoughts in their heads than they’re capable of. Free access to the internet or not- after all, it’s not any easier or harder to find porn than it was a decade ago. I won’t speak for the accuracy of his repulsive, misogynistic, predatory adult male characters, seems to be pretty in line with my experience of most grown men, but I have to say I don’t enjoy the same deviant behavior and consciousness being applied to little girls. I especially don’t like being reminded, over and over and in these exact words, that the objectification of said girls is just fine because they like it.
If believing Men Women & Children is poorly-disguised pedophile spank bank material makes me prudish, call me Sister Mary and fetch my wimple.
And honestly, how many people who read actually give a flying fuck about SIX different middle school football game blow-by-blows? I suspect Chad, like many of his namesake and every one of his pathetic characters, peaked at 14. That’s the only non-pedophilic reason I can imagine that “explains” his predilection for writing about the breasts of teenage girls and fixation on children’s sports games.
October 25, 2014
This was my second foray into the Kultgen mind and I vividly remember the day a female coworker asked me what the book was about. Instead of trying to give the synopsis, I handed her the book and had her read the first, graphic and somewhat depressing but so very real,paragraph. And I guess that's my point about Chad Kultgen works. He writes about the disappointments that while most feel, few actually truly talk about.
This novel has a clean, orderly structure that contrasts beautifully with how screwed up each of its central characters are. Perhaps screwed up isn't the most accurate description though. Maybe it's closer to the mark if we describe each as normal people trying to cope with routines and ruts in their own unique ways. Further, we see that all the distraction coping mechanisms used (from masturbation to video game addiction)aren't really that uncommon as strategies in the real world.
I think Kultgen's works would not appeal to those out there who lead golden lives where the idea of being disappointed or dissatisfied is repulsive and or never experienced. However, for the rest of us, his works read more honest and on target and also successfully without apology.
This novel has a clean, orderly structure that contrasts beautifully with how screwed up each of its central characters are. Perhaps screwed up isn't the most accurate description though. Maybe it's closer to the mark if we describe each as normal people trying to cope with routines and ruts in their own unique ways. Further, we see that all the distraction coping mechanisms used (from masturbation to video game addiction)aren't really that uncommon as strategies in the real world.
I think Kultgen's works would not appeal to those out there who lead golden lives where the idea of being disappointed or dissatisfied is repulsive and or never experienced. However, for the rest of us, his works read more honest and on target and also successfully without apology.
March 10, 2014
I always have a really hard time reviewing Kultgen's books. It's hard to verbalize how they make me feel. It's shocking and gritty, deals with a lot of hard, heavy topics in a very matter of fact manner. This particular book revolves around the lives of a few families with children in 8th grade that are going through their first relationship and/or sexual experiences, social pressures, and technology/social media influences. It's pretty frightening to me and gives me pretty strong anxiety about ever becoming a parent. It also looks at the parents relationships - a seemingly happy marriage but IMO a lack of good parenting, an unhappy marriage seeking outside sexual encounters, over-protective and controlling parents to a good kid, a single mom that sexualizes her daughter for money, and a recently divorced dad trying to move on and begin dating again while dealing with a sullen and depressive teenage son. The overall theme of the novel is communication - or lack there of. I finished reading last night and I was sick to my stomach over it. It definitely made me appreciate my marriage.
October 12, 2013
This book is soon to be a movie and, understandably, they're trying to cast real high school students in the film. So naturally, being a high school student, I sent my photos to the casting director without having even a vague idea what the movie was about! So I read the book. I read it in one day actually. And I realized: sometimes I get to the last page of a book and have to take a moment to breathe and accept that it may have just ruined my life before clicking "add to favorites". This was definitely one of those books. The writing was simple and easy to read (even if the dialog felt a little too "he said" "she said" at times) but the middle school characters were depressingly relatable. I couldn't relate much to the adults since I'm only in high school, but all of the younger characters could have been people I went to middle school with. I give Kultgen 4 stars for this novel because it absolutely ruined my night and one star off because it absolutely ruined my night. Good job. But really, good job.
March 3, 2013
A quick read. I enjoyed it but found the activities and conversations between 8th graders problematic. The plot and characters would have been more believable had they been 10th graders - there were simply too many themes and issues that are more accurate well into the onset of high school. I also felt that the ending was sudden and rushed - definitely no closure and the tying up of lose ends felt sloppy and unemotional making it difficult for me to care about the characters and feel satisfied with the complete novel The book's strength is it's portrayal of the relationships between men, women and their children and how these relationships are affected by what we say, think and do, and more importantly, what's not spoken and the secrets we keep from one another. Kultgen is also spot on with his understanding and insights into online and social behaviours and the issues they have created in our relationships and lives.
March 27, 2015
This is one of those books that from page one you are in the story, it doesn't need a good 50 pages to get you hooked. I appreaciated the detatchement from the characters, I think that's what the writer was aiming at.
I would have liked it if it didn't revolve around sex so much and maybe if the younger protagonists "children" were a little older. Maybe that's the reason why my favorite of the story lines was Tim Mooney's.
Overall it was the kind of book that you read easily and if you put it down, you can start again with no trouble from where you left off.
As for the ending of the book, having seen the movie first it seemed a bit abrupt. I would have liked to see what happened with Patricia after she finds out about There wasn't closure in all the storylines, Kent and Dawn, Don and Rachel Truby. But I suppose if one hasn't seen the movie it makes sense.
I would have liked it if it didn't revolve around sex so much and maybe if the younger protagonists "children" were a little older. Maybe that's the reason why my favorite of the story lines was Tim Mooney's.
Overall it was the kind of book that you read easily and if you put it down, you can start again with no trouble from where you left off.
As for the ending of the book, having seen the movie first it seemed a bit abrupt. I would have liked to see what happened with Patricia after she finds out about There wasn't closure in all the storylines, Kent and Dawn, Don and Rachel Truby. But I suppose if one hasn't seen the movie it makes sense.
June 28, 2018
I should of watched the movie, and not wasted my time. Firstly, is everyone being REALLY into ass play a metaphor? There was a lot of that, and it honestly made no sense... Yeah I should of watched the movie. Secondly, the writing was not my favorite, it read like a script with the constant “This character said...” it was simple, and repetitive. The characters were fine and they all had their own vices, but still only Tim Mooney was enjoyable. I don’t know. Wouldn’t recommend.
December 9, 2014
ok, maybe I was too young, but I couldn't deal with the explicit nature. wish I could see the film (ansel elgort <3) but r rated so..... yeah.
July 22, 2016
The literary equivalent of a Todd Solondz movie, with less humor, less pedophilia, and no gratuitous murder. If you've ever wanted to read 300 pages of mostly awkward, graphic sex scenes between thirteen year olds, this is the book for you.
I don't want to say that I don't like this book because it's pointless, because that's untrue. Sex is integral in the way we relate to each other as humans -- it can be the most blissful thing in the world and also the most horrifying, and there's a good mix of those opposite dynamics in this book. Sexual awakening is also a crucial part of growing up. Kultgen shows how the internet has accelerated sexual exploration, now that hardcore porn is free and easily accessible. One of the aforementioned thirteen year olds is unable to even lose his virginity in a vanilla way (!) due to all of the fetish porn he watches.
So, I thought through most of this book that the thirteen year olds really don't seem like thirteen year olds. I think that is the reality that Kultgen is trying to point out in writing this book, the way the internet has supercharged maturity. But I felt that the book was, for the most part, lacking an emotional softness to buffer out its explicitness. It's vulnerability that's lacking, maybe? Only two of the characters -- Tim, depressed and addicted to World of Warcraft, and Allison, eating disordered and chasing a total tool -- really have that heart in their stories.
Men, Women & Children is also about, as its title suggests, the mothers and fathers of these teenagers, some far from sexually settled or satisfied themselves. The main adult couple explored, the Trubys, aren't really attracted to each other anymore. Both spouses use the Internet to look elsewhere. The father (who seems like the grown up version of the total tool Allison chases and I sincerely hope Kultgen isn't using him to symbolize the "average American man," because god, ew) has his first experience with a prostitute found on an online escort review board; the mother uses AshleyMadison.com to cheat on her husband with an also-married black man, a new experience for her in more ways than one.
Aside from having significantly less ick factor in knowing the genitalia you're reading about is not thirteen, the adult sections also have the most successful attempts at humor. For example:
Rachel stayed in the bed they just had sex in. She could smell Secretluvur in the sheets, on her hands, on her lips. She smiled. As she closed her eyes, drifting into a relaxed sleep, she was happy that she had had an orgasm with a black man...
But even though I laughed aloud at that throwaway line, and also a few others, AND even though I definitely see what Kultgen is doing, this book just lacks either the punch of heart or the extreme of really black comedy to the point of discomfort that makes Solondz films work. Instead, in Men, Women & Children we have football scenes with plays described as gratuitously as if the sport were also pornography, a Tao Lin-style "everything means nothing and everything" meticulous rendering of unnecessary detail.
Meh.
I don't want to say that I don't like this book because it's pointless, because that's untrue. Sex is integral in the way we relate to each other as humans -- it can be the most blissful thing in the world and also the most horrifying, and there's a good mix of those opposite dynamics in this book. Sexual awakening is also a crucial part of growing up. Kultgen shows how the internet has accelerated sexual exploration, now that hardcore porn is free and easily accessible. One of the aforementioned thirteen year olds is unable to even lose his virginity in a vanilla way (!) due to all of the fetish porn he watches.
So, I thought through most of this book that the thirteen year olds really don't seem like thirteen year olds. I think that is the reality that Kultgen is trying to point out in writing this book, the way the internet has supercharged maturity. But I felt that the book was, for the most part, lacking an emotional softness to buffer out its explicitness. It's vulnerability that's lacking, maybe? Only two of the characters -- Tim, depressed and addicted to World of Warcraft, and Allison, eating disordered and chasing a total tool -- really have that heart in their stories.
Men, Women & Children is also about, as its title suggests, the mothers and fathers of these teenagers, some far from sexually settled or satisfied themselves. The main adult couple explored, the Trubys, aren't really attracted to each other anymore. Both spouses use the Internet to look elsewhere. The father (who seems like the grown up version of the total tool Allison chases and I sincerely hope Kultgen isn't using him to symbolize the "average American man," because god, ew) has his first experience with a prostitute found on an online escort review board; the mother uses AshleyMadison.com to cheat on her husband with an also-married black man, a new experience for her in more ways than one.
Aside from having significantly less ick factor in knowing the genitalia you're reading about is not thirteen, the adult sections also have the most successful attempts at humor. For example:
Rachel stayed in the bed they just had sex in. She could smell Secretluvur in the sheets, on her hands, on her lips. She smiled. As she closed her eyes, drifting into a relaxed sleep, she was happy that she had had an orgasm with a black man...
But even though I laughed aloud at that throwaway line, and also a few others, AND even though I definitely see what Kultgen is doing, this book just lacks either the punch of heart or the extreme of really black comedy to the point of discomfort that makes Solondz films work. Instead, in Men, Women & Children we have football scenes with plays described as gratuitously as if the sport were also pornography, a Tao Lin-style "everything means nothing and everything" meticulous rendering of unnecessary detail.
Meh.
October 22, 2014
I don't regret reading it, but I can't really recommended.
The book was off base on a few things that I can tell (even from watching the trailer) the movie has improved. Going to see it tomorrow and expect I'll like it better, probably concise plot line and less time spent on non-important points. I can't help but wonder how books like this (which have a lot of promise) don't have editors jumping up and down say, 'Nope, that's not realistic' or 'This section needs to be cut in half.' Do the writers and editors talk/research at all to know what's going on out there or just make assumptions based on their own experience or things they see on over-exaggerated TV shows & news reports.
For example:
I feel the age of the characters is too young, I'm very familiar with today's adolescents and feel 8th graders are just starting to experiment and aren't quite in the pressure stage in HS years, 'Am I the only one that hasn't done it' or wanting to be the first seems to be more in the 15-17 year olds, at least in this area. I recently heard on the radio that the national average for first time sex has actually gone up in the ten years to 17-19 years. Seems like this would be an easily Googled topic to set the scene of this book in a more realistic tone. Obviously this is what they chose to do for the characters in the movie (Ansel Elgort can't pass for a 13-14yr old)
I also think this book is overly obsessed with all things anal. Seems like most of the characters could not completely enjoy sex without going to "the back door." I know plenty of people interested in that arena, but a much higher percentage are not or not even close to the extent described in this book.
As discussed in other reviews, but needs to be said; the football scenes were overly described and quite a few interesting side characters where dropped all together like the Coach and Allison's friend Rory, who loves Mike Tyson on Oprah, and the Vance parents.
The book was off base on a few things that I can tell (even from watching the trailer) the movie has improved. Going to see it tomorrow and expect I'll like it better, probably concise plot line and less time spent on non-important points. I can't help but wonder how books like this (which have a lot of promise) don't have editors jumping up and down say, 'Nope, that's not realistic' or 'This section needs to be cut in half.' Do the writers and editors talk/research at all to know what's going on out there or just make assumptions based on their own experience or things they see on over-exaggerated TV shows & news reports.
For example:
I feel the age of the characters is too young, I'm very familiar with today's adolescents and feel 8th graders are just starting to experiment and aren't quite in the pressure stage in HS years, 'Am I the only one that hasn't done it' or wanting to be the first seems to be more in the 15-17 year olds, at least in this area. I recently heard on the radio that the national average for first time sex has actually gone up in the ten years to 17-19 years. Seems like this would be an easily Googled topic to set the scene of this book in a more realistic tone. Obviously this is what they chose to do for the characters in the movie (Ansel Elgort can't pass for a 13-14yr old)
I also think this book is overly obsessed with all things anal. Seems like most of the characters could not completely enjoy sex without going to "the back door." I know plenty of people interested in that arena, but a much higher percentage are not or not even close to the extent described in this book.
As discussed in other reviews, but needs to be said; the football scenes were overly described and quite a few interesting side characters where dropped all together like the Coach and Allison's friend Rory, who loves Mike Tyson on Oprah, and the Vance parents.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
December 27, 2018
Men, Women and Children really fucked me over with how dark the realities of technology and sexual experiences can be. Who knew that all people; young and inexperienced high school kids, couples bored out of their minds with each other that they feel the need for infidelity with no shame, and just regular normal-functioning couples can really be impacted by relationships and how they use the internet. It’s messed up and it kept me interested because of how fucked up and creepily real any of the stories and scenarios were. Brooke and Danny’s story is all how we really are or what we aim to be when we’re young and dating or it could turn out a little fucked up like Allison and Brandon’s purely sexual exploration of each other. As for older married couples it comes down to the Truby couple who goes online to find people to satisfy their insatiable needs as they’re both dissatisfied with how stale their marriage and sex life has become and there’s also the Kent and Dawn who are single adults with kids who go to the same college who eventually get it on with each other. Fucked up stories but all in all, I learnt that even the most fucked up out of these stories are happening everywhere and that I could potentially experience any of this too. It’s real as fuck. The internet can be both advantageous or disadvantageous to our lives depending on how we use it, what we use it for as well as the effects; either boosting your self esteem by using it well or letting it completely fuck over your mental and psychological state. Most likeable character was Tim Mooney. Least was Patricia Beltmeyer; god she was annoying. If I had a parent like that I’d surely go insane. 4 stars since it’s relatable, realer than real and for plot twists.
January 17, 2015
This book is unlike anyone that I have read recently. It is very adult and scary real. I saw the movie trailer for the movie that is set to come out in Oct so I decided to check out the book, which I always like to read before I see the movie. The book was extremely crass and did not leave anything to the imagination. I think that the people in this story are actually more true to real life than most books I have read. I really do. I think that this is how people think and what they do, maybe except for the 8th grader who is obsessed with crazy kinds of sex--that might be kind of a reach. I think that 8th graders really deal with these types of situations in real life and it scares me! I have an 8th grade daughter! I do not think she has had these experience but I think other kids her age do. I am glad that I read this book though and I really look forward to the movie--I will look up Chad Kultgren's other books for sure because he writes it the way it is.
Now I have seen the movie I can add a little more. Movie was very good portrayal of the book with only a few differences. The story centered more on a Tim & Brandy rather than the other young couple--they were barely even in the movie. I also liked the end of the movie because it was a little more positive and hopeful than the book ending, however, the book ending is probably more REAL. I loved all the actors in the movie--they were well-chosen for their respective parts.
Now I have seen the movie I can add a little more. Movie was very good portrayal of the book with only a few differences. The story centered more on a Tim & Brandy rather than the other young couple--they were barely even in the movie. I also liked the end of the movie because it was a little more positive and hopeful than the book ending, however, the book ending is probably more REAL. I loved all the actors in the movie--they were well-chosen for their respective parts.
May 16, 2017
In my opinion, this is probably the crudest novel I've ever read and I love it. At first, I have to admit, the way it was written totally wound me up, but then I realized it was intentional and without that, most scenes wouldn't have been as powerful and striking as they were. Also, I think it was that detachment from the story the narrator has that makes it possible to tell so many stories, and allows the reader to generate their own opinions and reactions to the different occurrences throughout the book.
One of my favorite things about "Men, Women and Children" is how, even though some characters definitely have more to their background stories than others, you feel like you know just enough about each of them to empathize with them. Because, like it or not, (and that's probably what made me give this book 5 stars) the characters are utterly relatable due to the fact that they're all so human and average-people-y, there's nothing fantastical about any of them and the events in their lives, even their ages help you feel closer to them. There's this point at which you feel like you might as well be reading your own life or one of your peers'. In addition to, the way they talk to each other is quotidian (which, I guess at some point makes you feel this book is bland and poorly-written).
This is probably my favorite book now.
One of my favorite things about "Men, Women and Children" is how, even though some characters definitely have more to their background stories than others, you feel like you know just enough about each of them to empathize with them. Because, like it or not, (and that's probably what made me give this book 5 stars) the characters are utterly relatable due to the fact that they're all so human and average-people-y, there's nothing fantastical about any of them and the events in their lives, even their ages help you feel closer to them. There's this point at which you feel like you might as well be reading your own life or one of your peers'. In addition to, the way they talk to each other is quotidian (which, I guess at some point makes you feel this book is bland and poorly-written).
This is probably my favorite book now.
January 27, 2016
I can't say that I enjoyed reading this book, even though I've given it a four stars. Honestly, I found it highly disturbing and troubling to read, but that's because the subject matter addressed here was highly personal and so explicitly detailed. While the details were most definitely disturbing, the overall conclusions that can be made about the characters' relationships-- and by extension, the relationships we may be involved in ourselves, as well-- were the scariest of all. This novel explores serious and interwoven themes such as sexuality, sexual relationships, self-image, and communication among the adults and young teenagers who serve as the large cast of characters, and Kultgen does not hold back in the least. The story is told through a detached narrator, a voice that displays no emotion, no judgment, but simply lays out each scene, and this detachment, for me at least, served to heighten the disturbing factor, in that no voice of reason spoke to the sadness and destructiveness of so many behaviors chosen by the characters. So why four stars then? The writing is gripping, the subject matter is important, and the delivery is intended to make us uncomfortable, I think. Mission accomplished.
March 19, 2017
This is my least favorite of Chad Kultgen's novels- but it is still amazing. I did a lot of laughing and even more snorting and nodding solemnly. It was complete with graphic sexuality, unfiltered thoughts and brutal honesty.
It's downsides: This book was possibly too straightforward. There was no slang in the sex talk; everything was said almost scientifically. Um, a little humor and the occasional "pussy" is never a bad thing. I believe this is a result of the story being told by an omniscient narrator rather than by a young, dirty first-person narrator, as in The Average American Male. I preferred the style in The Average American Male. Another downside would be the football talk. I can do a chapter or two of sports yak. It helps with getting to know the characters and sometimes even adds to the plot. This book just had too many scenes that were worth nothing more than the game's end result. There were times that I found myself skimming.
I would certainly tell all Chad Kultgen fans to bother. If you have yet to read something by Kultgen, I would recommend starting with The Average American Male or The Lie before reading Men, Women and Children.
It's downsides: This book was possibly too straightforward. There was no slang in the sex talk; everything was said almost scientifically. Um, a little humor and the occasional "pussy" is never a bad thing. I believe this is a result of the story being told by an omniscient narrator rather than by a young, dirty first-person narrator, as in The Average American Male. I preferred the style in The Average American Male. Another downside would be the football talk. I can do a chapter or two of sports yak. It helps with getting to know the characters and sometimes even adds to the plot. This book just had too many scenes that were worth nothing more than the game's end result. There were times that I found myself skimming.
I would certainly tell all Chad Kultgen fans to bother. If you have yet to read something by Kultgen, I would recommend starting with The Average American Male or The Lie before reading Men, Women and Children.
July 10, 2018
On one hand, this novel is well-written and, apparently, easily adapted into film. On the other hand, we don't need microscopic descriptions of sex. That sentence is hyperbole, so let me explain it in another way: X-rays and MRI's exist, and this novel transcribes those images into the written word. What makes this novel different from porn is that it's not sexy.
February 26, 2019
A really gritty and real-feeling look into the lives of middle schoolers and the adults around them. Really interesting, raw, and abrupt.
October 13, 2020
I had higher expectations for this one but it was VERY boring, I personally wouldn't recommend it at all.
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