La reinvención de Homero

by Andrew Dalby

En La reinvención de Homero , Andrew Dalby rebate este persistente error. Es una confusión demasiado común, sostiene el autor, y resulta engañosa porque nos induce a suponer, como es habitual, que su creador fue un hombre. En realidad, no sabemos nada sobre la persona que creó esos poemas, ni siquiera su sexo. Además, las obras presentan un determinado estilo y una profunda comprensión del conflicto de género en Grecia que son claramente femeninos. ¿Y si el autor, plantea Dalby, fuera una mujer&? La reinvención de Homero es un libro para todos los pú para los potenciales lectores de la Ilíada y la , para todos los interesados en los inicios de la literatura occidental y para quienes se ocupan de cuestiones relativas al género en el origen de la creatividad literaria. La obra libera al lector de sus presupuestos sobre estos grandes poemas épicos y los lleva de nuevo hasta ellos con la mirada renovada y sin las anteojeras que han lastrado tantas interpretaciones.

Genres: Nonfiction, Classics, History

328 pages, Paperback

First published July 24, 2006

About the author

Andrew Dalby (born Liverpool, 1947) is an English linguist, translator and historian who most often writes about food history.

Dalby studied at the Bristol Grammar School, where he learned some Latin, French and Greek; then at the University of Cambridge. There he studied Latin and Greek at first, afterwards Romance languages and linguistics. He earned a bachelor's degree in 1970. Dalby then worked for fifteen years at Cambridge University Library, eventually specializing in Southern Asia. He gained familiarity with some other languages because of his work there, where he had to work with foreign serials and afterwards with South and Southeast Asian materials. In 1982 and 1983 he collaborated with Sao Saimong in cataloguing the Scott Collection of manuscripts and documents from Burma (especially the Shan States) and Indochina; He was later to publish a short biography of the colonial civil servant and explorer J. G. Scott, who formed the collection.[1] To help him with this task, he took classes in Cambridge again in Sanskrit, Hindi and Pali and in London in Burmese and Thai.

Reviews

[kimberly · Rating 4 out of 5]

It's a shame other writing about this book plays up the author's claim that the author of the Homeric epics was (possibly, maybe) a woman. There's a lot of interesting stuff here about (1) the bits of history that may have inspired part of the story, (2) the construction and evolution of oral poetry, (3) the transition of Greek poetry from oral to written format.

One gets the feeling the author was summarizing other people's work, but it's a good tour and makes me want to read related books.

[Ümit Baykal · Rating 4 out of 5]

İlyada ve Odesa’yı okuduktan hemen sonra yıllar önce aldığım bu kitabı okumaya başladım. Yazar kitap boyunca iki destanın kökenine ilişkin açıklamlarda bulunuyor. Bu destanda bahsedilen olaylar gerçek miydi? İki destanın yazarı aynı kişiler miydi? Bu destanların yazarının bir kadın olduğuna ilişkin argümanı ise kitabın en ilgi çekici kısmıydı. Sözlü geleneğin bir parçası olduklarından belirli kalıpların kullanıldığını ancak ozanların bu kalıplar dışında kalan kısımlara kendi yaratıcılıklarını akıttıklarını dile getiriyor. Ayrıca ozanların seyircinin tercih ve isteklerine sessiz kalmasının mümkün olmadığını da belirtiyor. Yüzyıllarca konaklarda, meydanlarda anlatılan bu destanların bir çok farklı anlatımı olduğunu çünkü her ozanın elinde bir değişiklik meydana geldiğini anlatıyor. Destanların içeriğinden örnekler vererek o günün Yunan dünyasına ilişkin tespitlerde bulunuyor. Homeros’un cinsiyetinin tespiti mümkün değil ancak kadın olduğuna ilişkin argümanları okumak keyifliydi. Homeros kadın ise artık ona Homerose (evin gülü) diyelim. Hem yazarın açıklamalarına da uygun bir isim olur.

[Stan Lanier · Rating 4 out of 5]

Entertaining examination of issues surrounding the Homeric epics. Historical consciousness at work.

[Old-Barbarossa · Rating 3 out of 5]

Reasonable look at the origins of The Iliad and The Odyssey.
But...
The blurb on the back says it looks at whether Homer was female...it does this almost in passing and in a fairly unconvincing way...well, I wasn't convinced anyway.
Sure, I get the fact that Homer was probably just a construct that came about from a need to identify the works with an author, but as we know nothing about who actually wrote/composed the poems to say anything about them with anything more than speculation is fairly pointless. To be fair, the author doesn't make the claims to female authorship in anything like the way the blurb does...the author looks at the uncertainty and merely seems to say whoever composed the poems could have been female...the blurb pretty much say Homer was a woman.
Also, while looking at how the tales could have been compiled the author mentions Elias Lönnrot and his The Kalevala, as well as James MacPherson and his The Poems of Ossian and Related Works. Both of which were amalgamations of folk tale with a bit of made up stuff thrown in for good measure and to make things gel. Sound familiar? Yet he dismisses Ossian as unimportant. Now I get the fact that Lönnrot let on about what he was doing and MacPherson claimed authenticity for his work, but that shouldn't be a reason to dismiss it. It was, after all, Ossian that Napoleon took with him on campaign as Alexander took his Homer.

[James Henderson · Rating 3 out of 5]

While the title of Andrew Dalby's fascinating look at Homer is Rediscovering Homer, I would suggest that reinventing or unearthing the remains of Homer might be more appropriate. Not that he does not venture "inside the origins of the Epic", but that his project bears closer resemblance to an archaeological dig than a voyage of discovery. It is a dig that comes up short in part because it necessarily must be buttressed with speculation. Most scholars agree that the origins of the Epics of Homer and other ancient poetry are shrouded in mystery. We do not have enough hard evidence to reach firm conclusions about the true source of the poems in the form that we have them. Any conclusions about the poet and the process would seem to be speculative at best. This book is an attempt to challenge the notion that the written epics we have are the creation of an author named Homer. Homer the poet lived long before the epics were written and we do not know who eventually wrote them down. And, as Andrew Dalby argues, we do not even know the gender of the author. The attempt to provide this speculation with support makes for a fascinating book, albeit one that would be somewhat slimmer without general background material about the Homeric epics that is familiar to all who have read them. For those unfamiliar with the poems this book is a good introduction with the caveat that the second part of the book about the maker of the Odyssey and Iliad is controversial. Fortunately, the author concludes the book with a thoughtful "Guide to Further Reading" coda that provides excellent suggestions for readers interested in exploring further the world of the epic poem.

[Jrobertus · Rating 3 out of 5]

Dalby is an Homeric scholar from Cambridge. He uses the available literary and archeological evidence to address questions about the origin of the Iliad and the Odyssey. Sadly, we don't really learn much new. His only novel notion is that the person who wrote down the stories could have been a woman, but since we know nothing about the real Homer, this sounds like a PC way to sell books. We do know there was a sack of Troy, a city with Hittite connections. We don't know when preliterate singers, aoidos, composed the epics as entertaining stories, but the author is at length to point out that each performance was novel and some poet/singers were better than others. At some point, the stories were transcribed, either by a singer or a scribe, and becasue of the magnitude of this undertaking it must have been financed by someone. We really don't know if Homer was the writer, the singer, more than one person, man or woman. I was disappointed that there was so little comparison between the epics. The late, great, Julian Jaynes made an interesting hypothesis that the two works occur at the dawn of full human consciousness. At least, he claims, the gods control the action in the Iliad, whereas the Odyssey is full of human volition and marks the birth of rational man. THis may be false but it is so interesting I wish Dalby had considered it in deciding who, and when the two epics were made and recorded.

[Jeanette 📚🦊🏹 justjeanettelee_reads · Rating 4 out of 5]

Reading things for university is always good when it's a subject that fascinates you. Also helps you write a better quality paper.

While I thoroughly enjoyed reading Dalby, there aren't that many points that he makes that I can use in regards to my thesis.

Written in a way that makes it easy and effortless to read - just the way I like my non-fiction.

Nevertheless, I pretty good read if you're interested in Homer, the Iliad or the Odyssey.

[maniel · Rating 3 out of 5]

3.5/5
Okay, but I did actually really enjoy reading this. I guess I know my taste in this one very specific way: the ancient epics will always fascinate me. It's definitely not the best academic work I've ever read, but the insights that did stick out to me reminded me of why I loved these works so much when I first read them and honestly make me want to give them a reread.

In general, any exploration of the connection between oral storytelling, truth, and tradition will suck me in, and this book has tons of that. Dalby's discussions of all the epics' dimensions — as history, as artefact — really expanded my understanding of them and made me realize the delicate balance between universality and context in any story. You cannot fully grasp the Iliad or Odyssey through close reading alone because its oral elements (i.e. repetitive formulas, contradictory lines, loose ends) will evoke confusion in those expecting written development. But for readers who do know this context, the poems become all the more immersive and beautiful.

The book didn't really hook me until the last hundred pages, though, when Dalby starts speculating, even strongly suggesting, that the poet we know as Homer was a woman. I found the evidence very compelling, even if it is purely speculative, and if it's true, it makes all the more sense why so many modern women authors have felt compelled to retell the stories of the women in these epics. The Iliad and especially the Odyssey are extremely concerned with gender relations and so it makes sense why women are pulled back to them again and again despite their blatant misogyny. When women like Atwood or Miller write books from Penelope or Circe's perspective, they are not revising problematic source material; they are expanding on an exploration of the complex relations women had to navigate in it.

Even if Homer was not a woman, Dalby's summary and synthesis on the role of women in the oral storytelling traditional is honestly kind of moving. The revelation that women have always told stories, have always been skilled poets and weavers of words, was particularly inspiring to me as an AFAB person who has, thus far, inherited a mostly written storytelling tradition that has rarely if ever given women the opportunity to participate in it. Knowing that women told stories, even when there was no reward, even when no one would know their name, even when illiterate and uneducated, is comforting in a bone-deep kind of way. On a broader level, the information on various oral storytelling traditions around the world was also pretty beautiful: a reminder that art actually is human instinct, regardless of your context or material circumstances.

My problems were mostly technical. This book is definitely not for beginners. I've read both the epics and criticism on them and I still felt like I was jumping into the middle of a conversation. Additionally, Dalby meanders a lot and it can sometimes be difficult to connect an idea currently being examined to any overarching points. Lastly, I felt Dalby occasionally takes things too seriously. There's a part where he suggests that men and gods must be bilingual because they can always understand each other without need for translation and I just found that silly. I couldn't stop picturing Zeus in his study learning a new language.

Anyway, this was interesting, I'll probably come back to it. Also, catch my review of the Iliad and the Odyssey on here in the next few months!

[Bernie4444 · Rating 5 out of 5]

Rediscovering Homer: Inside the Origins of the Epic.

To keep from reading the Iliad and Odyssey the whole story is told in the first short introduction. Then a few maps and graphs before getting down to Andrew Dalby’s interpretation of information on “Rediscovering Homer.”

Dalby puts together facts and information so that you feel that you are reading the stories over again with new eyes. He is a very deft writer pulling parts of the Iliad and odyssey out of order to show examples of what he is showing you. I will not go into detail here as that is why you will want this book.

You will want to read the book again as it is packed with interesting thoughts and by the time you get to the end you will wonder what you forgot.

We may never really know Homer but we feel more comfortable in his world.

[Bob · Rating 3 out of 5]

While frascinting, the book is not very well written, sometimes repetitive, and not particularly well organized. What it does offer is a remarkably fresh start on looking at the Iliad and the Odyssey.
His first argument concerns how we are to understand the content of the poem s. Are they real history; a transcription of oral poetry that had been handed down from singer to singer for hundreds of years; what is the intent of the compiler.
A second argument concerns the identity of the author, which Dalby has good arguments for believing to be a woman. It is enlightening to see him bring linguistic, geographic, sociological, and literary-critical evidence to bear on the subject, though to me his conclusions were not proven beyond even a mild doubt. The exercise was an example of multiple chains of reasoning brought nicely together.
The final portion of the book seeks to summarize the history of the text: as song, classic, educational text, catalog of myths, moral compass, etc.
The value of the book is that it makes it possible for a reader to come to these poems with enough challenges to preconceptions that it can be read ¨anew.¨

[MH · Rating 3 out of 5]

Dalby sets out to answer some fundamental questions about Homer, the epics The Iliad and The Odyssey, and why the oral tradition became a literary one in this deeply researched, generously sourced, methodically composed work. Any deep study of the ancients is going to become an exercise in speculation and for me, a layman, his arguments seem reasonable but his evidence is often wildly tangential and discussed at unnecessary depth - although Dalby isn't an unfriendly writer I often found it heavy going and a dry read.

[blanca noguera · Rating 3 out of 5]

Està prou bé com a repàs de tot el que s'ha opinat al voltant de la figura creadora de la Ilíada i l'Odissea, però també sobre l'èpica i la tradició oral en general, i per obrir la ment a noves perspectives que han fet manco fortuna a l'Acadèmia. Ara, està molt mal estructurat, pretén abastar massa i els temes s'acaben mesclant de manera repetitiva i un poc difícil de seguir; l'autor tendeix a fer afirmacions categòriques un poc agosarades i, al final, de la possibilitat que Homer fos una dona n'acaba xerrant només durant cinc pàgines contades.

[Lakshmi · Rating 3 out of 5]

Provides a decent and entertaining discussion on the origin or Iliad, Odyssey and its authorship. Some parts were too repetitive

[Melisa Sahinkaya · Rating 4 out of 5]

surprisingly engaging. a neat little journey through homeric authorship, oral tradition, and the slippery nature of “who wrote what.” doesn’t pretend to have all the answers, which i appreciated—just lays out the possibilities with clarity and curiosity. short, thoughtful, and way more readable than you’d expect. might re-read all homer after such detailed contemplation.

[Michael · Rating 3 out of 5]

The search for the historical Homer, like the search for the historical Jesus, is an exercise in speculation. The lack of real evidence and the abundance of legend have obscured the traditional creator(s) of the Iliad and the Odyssey to the point that scholars have argued at various times that the two works were composed by different people, that one of the composers was a woman, or even that the works were compilations of anonymous songs redacted by one or more individuals who have collectively come to be known as "Homer." Dalby gives a nice overview of the problems and includes a useful "Guide to Further Reading," as well as a bibliography. He argues successfully, I think, for the common origin of both epics in the seventh century B.C. His assertion that the common composer's gender was female remains unproven and unprovable. He gives a helpful introduction to the Parry-Lord hypothesis for those unfamiliar with this important advance in the understanding of oral composition and transmission. The value of the work lies more in its provision of context for reading the Iliad and the Odyssey (i.e., geography, society, literary history, etc.) than in the author's proposed identification of the composer of both works as a woman. For a real "rediscovery" of Homer, see Alberto Manguel's most excellent Homer's The Iliad and The Odyssey: A Biography.

[dejah_thoris · Rating 4 out of 5]

First and foremost, don't believe the hype over Dalby's conclusion that Homer may have been a woman. It's not as strongly argued as the blurbs may have you believe and after reading everything before that chapter the argument has some validity.

That noted, I have not read Homer in several years, but I really enjoyed Dalby's analysis of the two epics and supporting historical material. The book discusses the construction of both the Illiad and the Odyssey as well as how oral poetry and culture arose and were disseminated. He also investigates the historical basis of the Illiad and describes how the Odyssey depicts life in ancient Greece. Then he dives into the problem of gender in the ancient world and how men and women often had different languages (women's evolving more slowly because they have less contact with outsiders), customs, and goals, which may explain why both poems were eventually recorded in writing instead of being just performed publicly. Finally, he concludes with his fairly strong argument that Homer could've been a woman who wanted to reach a wider audience based on similar encounters while collecting songs and folklore from other European cultures. (Women often knew the traditional ballads better than the men did but either weren't contacted while the research was conducted or refused to perform publicly.) Overall, a very interesting read that will illuminate the classic of classics for those not versed in ancient Greek culture.

[Jonathan · Rating 4 out of 5]

I found this book to be really enjoyable, but I agree with some other reviewers who stated that the alluded to female authorship of the epics was never addressed in a satisfactory way. There are many good points to this book and I would recommend as a thought provoking compliment after reading both of the epics.

[m. soria · Rating 4 out of 5]

yeah, it was written by a woman!

[Kermit Johnson · Rating 5 out of 5]

asia minor is cool

[Marsha]

Was "Homer" a woman? --

[Ulas]

Bazı bölümlerde çok sıkıldım, bazı bölümleri ise büyük bir heyecanla okudum. İlyada'daki Gemi Kataloğu'nu anlattığı bölüm çok ilginçti. Arkeolojik bulgulardan yararlanarak Mykenai Yunanistanı ile Gemi Kataloğu arasında kurduğu bağlantılar ve işaret ettiği arkaik izler ufuk açıcıydı. Kitaba dair sanırım en çok bölüm aklımda kalacak.