The Symposium/The Phaedo

by Plato, Raymond Larson (Translator)

Raymond Larson's excellent translation of the dialogues that deal, respectively, with the nature of eros and the immortality of the soul are supplemented by careful annotation, a fine introduction, a list of principal dates in the life of Plato, and a selected bibliography.

Genres: Philosophy, Classics, Nonfiction, History, Historical

144 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1980

About the author

Plato (Greek: Πλάτων), born Aristocles (c. 427 – 348 BC), was an ancient Greek philosopher of the Classical period who is considered a foundational thinker in Western philosophy and an innovator of the written dialogue and dialectic forms. He raised problems for what became all the major areas of both theoretical philosophy and practical philosophy, and was the founder of the Platonic Academy, a philosophical school in Athens where Plato taught the doctrines that would later become known as Platonism.
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."

Reviews

[joanet · Rating 5 out of 5]

la verdad me ha gustado mucho quien pensaba que me iba a gustar un libro de platón..... el banquete simplememte locuras me ha encantado leerlos hablar del AMOR que es mi tema favorito del mundo y el fedón pues también muy chulo joer que guay es la filosofia cuando la entiendo..........

[Stoney · Rating 4 out of 5]

Socrates really did be thinkin tho. Sentenced to death for too many big brain moments.

[Rory Armstrong · Rating 4 out of 5]

A great collection of platos dialogues. As stated, it contains the Symposium and the 4 dialogues that deal directly with Socrates death. Each covers ideas like love, the soul, holiness, justice, and the need to live philosophically. It does process a fair amount of spirituality and mysticism required for some arguments which weakens it considerably, but it is still fascinating to read how the conclusions are reached. Written with the commons in mind it is very readable and easy to follow. It is also quite funny at times too. Recommended to anyone interested or curious. It's not at all daunting. You will enjoy it

[Álvaro Díaz · Rating 4 out of 5]

Una reflexión sobre el amor en sus distintas variantes. Un diálogo en busca de la verdad sobre el que muchas veces creímos, sobre todo en la más tierna juventud, era el motor del mundo. Quizá la obra más importante de este filósofo tras La República, de la que bebió claramente el cristianismo. Entender a Platón es, en muchos casos, entender en buena medida los valores que priman hoy en esta parte del mundo; en Occidente.

[Seraphim Arnold · Rating 4 out of 5]

Praise Eros 🙌

[Max M · Rating 5 out of 5]

‘Daimonion’ is a really interesting conceptualisation of divinity within ethics. Like it a lot, good read.

[Alexandru · Rating 5 out of 5]

A classic must read. The part on love is fascinating. The part on death sad, but stoic. Although I disagree with some of ideas a great read and nice to get to know the Socratic method.

[Maia · Rating 4 out of 5]

Reading this feels like attending one of the most intellectual dinner parties in history to put it simply.

The first half of this book is a group of Ancient Greek philosophers getting drunk on wine and giving passionate speeches about the meaning of love. Until Socrates pops up and casually dismantles everyone’s arguments while acting like he’s just asking a few harmless questions, and essentially tells them that they all actually have no idea about love or it’s nature.

There was one speech about love that I did think was particularly lovely though by Aristophanes. The idea was that humans were once whole beings, made up of four arms, four legs, and a single head with two faces looking in opposite directions. According to the story, these original humans descended from the moon, the earth, or the sun, depending on whether they were female, male, or a combination of the two.

However Zeus, the diva that he was, was unwilling to allow humans to rival the gods and decided to try weaken them by splitting them in half. Him doing this however is what led to the belief in what we now call soulmates. Each of us is searching for the other half we were separated from by the gods. Love then in theory becomes the desire to reunite, both in body and soul, with the part of ourselves that was taken from us long ago by the gods.

Although some people might say that idea is a bit soppy, I actually think it’s rather lovely. To think that there could be someone so uniquely made for you, someone who completes you, is quite comforting in a way. Modern dating doesn’t always make that belief easy to hold onto don’t get me wrong but alas the search continues 😪😂

Now the second half of this book is less wine night vibe and is when Athens decides that a man who questions anything and everything might actually be slightly inconvenient to them.

Now as someone who is known to be a yapper at times, I thought I had a good grasp on how to hold the attention of a room. Turns out I have so so so so much to learn from Socrates, now HE is a certified yapper. And boy does he know how to win an argument with the power of continuously going on and on, to the point where I think the other person in the conversation just loses track of where he is and gives in to Socrates to get him to be quiet. Although his argument didn’t quite go to plan this time round with the whole ‘death of Socrates’ section, so maybe I need to take it with a pinch of salt.

I do think the trial is an interesting one though because Socrates doesn’t even really try to win, he literally just keeps doing the exact thing that got him into trouble in the first place. Admittedly I don’t think if I was going to trial for having questioned anyone and everyone’s every word for my entire life, that my defence strategy would be to double down on that and continue to piss everyone off some more by questioning them again. But hey, Socrates gave it a go, didn’t quite work out like he planned but god loves a trier! Lesson learned, if you spend your life questioning everyone’s beliefs, people may eventually form some strong opinions about you.

Final thoughts are that Socrates was brilliant, stubborn and possibly the worse person to represent himself in court by delivering what may be history’s most unapologetic defence speech.

“I must stop. It is time for us to go. Me to my death, you to your lives. Which of us goes to the better fate, only god knows”

[Alec Westgarth-Taylor · Rating 5 out of 5]

As someone who hasn't read a lot of Plato or any Greeks in quite a while I was a bit hesitant going in. Surprisingly, rather than a dry exegesis on the soul or forms, I found an at times funny and moving work portraying philosophy as a way of life. Socrates comes across as both a comic and tragic figure, and ultimately a kind of singularly strangely great figure. Plenty to ponder.

[Paula · Rating 5 out of 5]

Relaciones homosexuales y una mujer salvándole el discurso a Sócrates. Me hace tanta gracia pensar que los de Vox lo llamarían woke (menos mal que no saben leer).
Las tesis sobre el Amor me gustan mucho.

[paula · Rating 4 out of 5]

beidzot pabeidzu so gramatu! man patika, bet the name is misleading, gramata praktiski bija tikai par socrates un plato bija loti mazs pieminets

[Paolo Müller]

"Your notion of Love was just a mistake, and not a very surprising one either"

[Brett Lowey]

Socrates is hilarious - I love him!

While reading I identified strongly with the crowd of followers breathlessly hanging on every word, seeing how the man would navigate the labyrinths of thought they had decided to explore.

Both fun and fruitful.

[Anda · Rating 5 out of 5]

Not at all fun to read in Greek but there are little hints in the Greek text that take one much further than the translation would. This is one of Plato's last dialogues and it shows. Phrase structure is complex and at times seems incomplete. Only it is complete and also intentional. Greek translates horribly in English. French, on the other hand, renders the Greek text much better.

[Andreu · Rating 5 out of 5]

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[Guillermo Maddalena · Rating 5 out of 5]

Magnifico diálogo entre amigos. Un tributo o elogio al amor impecable!!!! Digno de leer. Obra maestra!!!!

[Kroluna · Rating 4 out of 5]

Tenia unas altas expectativas sobre este libro y la verdad que las ha superado, Platón ídolo 🤙🤙

[Hugolane · Rating 4 out of 5]

I have returned to these Plato Dialogues for the first time since college, though for some reason we were never assigned the Euthyphro, which I now ranks as my favorite dialogue by far. For more than the others Plato/Socrates seems to be pointing at the potential emptiness of the concepts he is interested in. You can also see just how annoying Socrates might well have been in person. Some 38 years on after my first encounter with the Apology and the Crito also stood up well; although, I just don't think I had the knowledge to assimilate their arguments properly or to understand their broader significance. The Symposium and the Phaedo wore less will, once one got beyond their somewhat different appeals to recognize the importance of inquiry, in large part because I just don't buy into the concept of pure forms and the arguments for the immortality of the soul have never done much for me. In particular, Diotima's explanations to Socrates did little for me beyond her point that desire/love is not an external thing located in the cherished person/item but lies within. Beyond that what struck me as rather discordant was the way both the Symposium and Phaedo are framed, as recalled experiences, something that seems at odds with Plato's emphasis on the philosopher's need to break away from imitation in order to uncover the true forms of concepts.

[Sunni · Rating 5 out of 5]

These were a lot more interesting that I thought they would be. The Symposium recounts a debating party held at the home of a well-known poet of the times who was entertaining other well-known celebrities. All of those in attendance take turns flaunting their intellectual prowess by making speeches on love. The Phaedo presents a discussion held in a prison cell where Socrates is being held shortly before his death. Accordingly immortality is the focus of the discussion.

I find it interesting that although many things have changed over the centuries, many things also have remained the same. Mankind is still struggling to answer questions regarding immortality and sexuality. While we may have better scientific answers to many things in modern society, we haven't progressed very far in the psychological aspect of things.

[randiii · Rating 3 out of 5]

What I took from this mainly revolves around the point of which ideas are made into thought which are in and of themselves forms of this collective cycle with which the human condition consistently overworks itself on matters relating to the acquisition of wisdom, of knowledge as a whole, love, justice, beliefs and other concepts that shape a human in general.
It’s interesting yet very overwritten to the point where it keeps drilling Socrates’ point of view in a way that’s very long winded yet provoking; as if the intention is to show you how little people actually know of things in general.
Has its great points and merits, and overall interesting to know how some of these concepts have been shaped and are still being followed in some aspects of humanity and it’s thought process.

[Emma · Rating 5 out of 5]

It’s a special man who, when given a chance to suggest an alternative punishment to death, says “you can arrange to have me paid at the public expense for the service I provide you in telling you all how stupid you are.” I don’t think I’ve ever related to anything so hard.

I can imagine that the less gifted students of Socrates must have been the most annoying people ever to have lived and can easily imagine them getting their not-a-teacher murdered.

Fascinating book.

[Andrew · Rating 4 out of 5]

I have my suspicions about the quality of the translation. And I haven’t been able to track down the source for the quote on the cover that calls it 'possibly the finest translation of any Platonic dialogue’. But I think it’s an excellent selection of dialogues for someone new to Plato. Penguin has a book called the Last Days of Socrates which combines the four dialogues dealing with Socrates’ trial and death, but adding the famous Symposium, as this one does, gives it more colour and weight.

[Niels Bak · Rating 2 out of 5]

I guess it goes without saying, that the language is a bit hard to read, because of how they spoke. Furthermore, the sentences are constructed, not to be read - but to argue. I think it should be used as a source, not as a bit of light bedtime reading. 2/5 bedtime reading. 4/5 source. 5/5 Socrates for being so badass going into death.

[Cal Davie · Rating 5 out of 5]

A powerful and versatile volume. The Symposium just has so much character to it, and the other works of this volume really get the brain ticking. One feels attached to Socrates in a strange way before he drinks the hemlock.

[James Dempsey · Rating 5 out of 5]

Aristophanes in the symposium vindicates the just reality of Transgenderism; Alcibiades offers his gust energy and shallow observation; Socrates throughout his gentle polemic, and his effervescent truth.

[Sara · Rating 3 out of 5]

The funniest thing is when Euthyphro quickly rushes off to avoid Socrates because he has had enough of his bullshit; fully made me cackle because I know he was secretly thinking to himself, 'damn no wonder you're getting prosecuted.'

[Alberto Lagomarsini · Rating 2 out of 5]

Puedo ser un buen libro pero lo único que ir se puede decir de la obra es que reconocen filosóficamente que el amor es lo más grande del universo. O sea, Dios aunque lo negaran o lo incomprendieran. Lo demás no aporta gran cosa.

[Erick Daniel · Rating 5 out of 5]

Si tubiera que elegir libros para llevarme de por vida, este compendio seria de mis elegidos. Los dialogos de platon en especial el banquete fueron de los libros que terminaron por engancharme con la filosofia.

[Iain · Rating 5 out of 5]

Highly recommend. It’s a great book to help challenge your perspective and appreciate philosophy more. Socrates is a man we all should know.

[Ritesh Sthapit · Rating 5 out of 5]

Socrates very finely illustrates that no matter how much we know, theres always more to learn.