What do you think?
The Rain Maiden
Depicts the life of the beautiful Isabel of Hainaut, France's first Queen, her stormy marriage to King Philippe-Auguste, and his antagonistic relationship with Richard the Lionhearted of England and captures the milieu of twelfth-century France
592 pages, Hardcover
First published January 1, 1987
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Displaying 1 - 23 of 23 reviews
Did Not Finish
May 18, 2022DNF around 20% or so without prejudice
Apologies to Nenia ~ I was so excited to buddy read this with her, and I might still come back to this later, but I have serious reservations. I thought about not leaving a review at all, but instead I'm going to spell out my reservations so other people can go into this with a very clear idea of what they're getting themselves into. Several GR friends I trust and have similar tastes as I have rated this book 4 stars or higher. I expected I'd love this book. I like to think of myself as having a stomach of steel when it comes to taboos in literature, but this pushed my limits in a way that's making it hard to continue.
The incest & pedophilia is giving me a hang up. Obviously, I'm not a history buff and didn't read the top review because I didn't realize the heroine is 10 years old. It's implied she's been having inappropriate relations with her dad & uncle since an earlier age.
...I've read BRs with incest & pedophilia before (Fiona Harrowe & Marilyn Harris), but the way the incest is portrayed in this book is different. The heroine expresses no shame, and desire for her father in such a way that seemed unnatural to me.
Examples:
Her father discussing her engagement to King Philippe
If you don't think that's so bad check out this implied goodbye hand job to her father before leaving with Philippe
...I can't get over this is a 10 year old girl. And the writing style almost comes across as pretentious? While this author is talented, she's no Nabokov. The way Marilyn Harris portrayed incest was tragic & horrifying. In Game of Thrones the incest occurs between the villains and there's a fantasy element. In Dark Dance, the Scarabae family aren't even humans, but immortal vampires. Plus the heroine is a grown adult. The underage sex in Personal Darkness is made more tolerable by both parties being vampires as well.
To add to this, I'm able to read books that aren't necessarily romances and lack a hea. In each one of them if the heroine was a victim of a violent crime, rape, or incest, she ends up at least still alive. This isn't really a spoiler since this is in the prologue, but
The historical info dumps were also a deterrent to me. I like historical fiction, but I didn't find this style engaging? If you're attracted to this time period & cast of characters this very well may be worth a try. Overall I really thought this medieval soap opera would work for me. I would encourage anyone interested to check out the 4 and 5 star reviews, but I do wish the nuances of how the incest was portrayed in this book had been spelled out to me in very plain terms.
There's also implied necrophilia in the prologue, but that didn't bother me as much for some reason. *shrug.
Apologies to Nenia ~ I was so excited to buddy read this with her, and I might still come back to this later, but I have serious reservations. I thought about not leaving a review at all, but instead I'm going to spell out my reservations so other people can go into this with a very clear idea of what they're getting themselves into. Several GR friends I trust and have similar tastes as I have rated this book 4 stars or higher. I expected I'd love this book. I like to think of myself as having a stomach of steel when it comes to taboos in literature, but this pushed my limits in a way that's making it hard to continue.
The incest & pedophilia is giving me a hang up. Obviously, I'm not a history buff and didn't read the top review because I didn't realize the heroine is 10 years old. It's implied she's been having inappropriate relations with her dad & uncle since an earlier age.
...I've read BRs with incest & pedophilia before (Fiona Harrowe & Marilyn Harris), but the way the incest is portrayed in this book is different. The heroine expresses no shame, and desire for her father in such a way that seemed unnatural to me.
Examples:
Her father discussing her engagement to King Philippe
Her gaze was a soft focus of light on his face. “Is it what you want?”
He turned his face from her, his head throbbing from confusion and too much wine. His voice was hoarse. “I don’t know.”
Gently, as though she were the parent comforting the child, Isabel took his face between her hands, making him look at her. Her voice was soft but very steady. ”I want whatever you want. Today. Tomorrow. Always.”
Baldwin went readily into her arms, his words tangled in sobs. “I want you.”
“You have me,” she answered, inscrutably calm. “Nothing will ever change that.” She sank gracefully to the bed cushions, easing him down beside her. “Now hush . ..”
If you don't think that's so bad check out this implied goodbye hand job to her father before leaving with Philippe
Flinging herself against him, her face pressed to the inner folds of his pellison, she gasped, “When will I ever see you again—and how can I live without you?”
She let him comfort her with kisses and soft words and discreet caresses, let him pull her hands closer till they rested beneath his bliaud, and she fondled him with piquant skill. When she had finished, she sank to the ground before him, pressing her face to his knee and forbidding herself to cry.
...I can't get over this is a 10 year old girl. And the writing style almost comes across as pretentious? While this author is talented, she's no Nabokov. The way Marilyn Harris portrayed incest was tragic & horrifying. In Game of Thrones the incest occurs between the villains and there's a fantasy element. In Dark Dance, the Scarabae family aren't even humans, but immortal vampires. Plus the heroine is a grown adult. The underage sex in Personal Darkness is made more tolerable by both parties being vampires as well.
To add to this, I'm able to read books that aren't necessarily romances and lack a hea. In each one of them if the heroine was a victim of a violent crime, rape, or incest, she ends up at least still alive. This isn't really a spoiler since this is in the prologue, but
The historical info dumps were also a deterrent to me. I like historical fiction, but I didn't find this style engaging? If you're attracted to this time period & cast of characters this very well may be worth a try. Overall I really thought this medieval soap opera would work for me. I would encourage anyone interested to check out the 4 and 5 star reviews, but I do wish the nuances of how the incest was portrayed in this book had been spelled out to me in very plain terms.
There's also implied necrophilia in the prologue, but that didn't bother me as much for some reason. *shrug.
April 4, 2012
Let's talk
medieval
, y'all.
As I've said in other reviews, I'm no expert in this era. My knowledge is general at best -- the kind of regurgitated factoids you absorb courtesy of freshman history classes. But thanks to The Rain Maiden, I'm no longer ignorant of Plantagenet/Capet drama. That's right, friends -- I've been schooled. My brain has been filled with the life & times of Philippe-August, Henry II, & their assorted broods, whether by blood or marriage. The politicking is endless. The scheming is shameless. There's no character index or marriage chart, so yours truly was hard-pressed to exercise her noodle. Feel the burn!
...Because I've also wallowed in soapy trash of the highest order. For realz. This book is wall-to-wall WTFery, complete with ped0bear sex, ped0bear marriage, gay lurve, incestuous sexytimes, & insane OTT bouts of melodrama, complete with screaming cat fights & flinging oneself on the floor to weep on the boots of their enemies. It's just THAT awesome...and I slurped it up with a fucking spoon. Is this book accurate? Who knows. And more importantly, WHO CARES?
Not me. >:D
Granted, my medieval teeth were cut on the campiest of campy medieval English mythos -- that is, the 1980s BBC show Robin of Sherwood.
We're not in this book, alas.
It's not a perfect series. The soundtrack is repetitive, the audio is murky, & the acting quality varies from excellent to horrible. The peasants are smeared with dirt like something out of Monty Python. The aristocrats are universally unlikable pricks who can't wait to stab each other in the back at the least provocation...sound familiar?
Your incompetence is the laughingstock of Christendom!
Just as my childhood self clung to the soapy, violent, & irreverent plotlines -- sprinkled with pathos, scowling, melodrama, & random insertions of supernatural intervention -- my adult self was entranced by the onslaught of WTFery & antics of Rain Maiden. While Isabel of Hainault is nominally the central character of this crazy-ass spree, it's equally divided between her ghastly royal marriage to Philippe & Philippe's complicated relations with England. You see, Philippe doesn't want to marry this adolescent vixen...or does he?
Look, Gisburne -- another simpering female to wander around the place.
From this questionable match springs 600 pages of OTT drama. As Isabel & Philippe slowly adjust to their marriage, she falls in love with him. Isabel, for her part, is suffering from improper love between father & daughter, as well as uncle & niece -- the sort of family where BJs are considered thanks for remembering one's birthday. But does Philippe love her? Eh, that's more debatable. Philippe loves sex, to be sure -- but he loves sex with EVERYONE, including each of the four Plantagenet boys.
King John -- the epitome of lecherous slimeball monarchs. :D
At any rate, the bulk of the book is a series of vignettes in which we observe Isabel, Philippe, King Henry, Queen Adele (who is an awesome shrill cougar), Bishop Sulley, & the Plantagenet boys (Harry, Geoffrey, Richard, & John) interacting in various combinations. There's also a thread of pagan vs Christian values clashing within Philippe's court, most especially within Isabel herself; the most "serious" aspect of the book is her confusion over why the men are so determined to label her a devilish seductress when God has given her a lust for physical love. It's an interesting question that's given no real resolution.
...That being said, don't be fooled by the religious angle that's piqued my interest. Bottom line: this is a medieval soap opera that alternates screaming matches, sex, & petty domestic disputes with infodumps on epic battles & political maneuvering. It has a similar feel to Game of Thrones (minus the creepy soul-sucking zombies, that is), so if you like those books you'd probably like this one. But if you're a stickler for extreme accuracy in historical novels...well, proceed with caution.
No disrespect to Alan Rickman...but Nickolas Grace is the best Sheriff ever. That is all.
As I've said in other reviews, I'm no expert in this era. My knowledge is general at best -- the kind of regurgitated factoids you absorb courtesy of freshman history classes. But thanks to The Rain Maiden, I'm no longer ignorant of Plantagenet/Capet drama. That's right, friends -- I've been schooled. My brain has been filled with the life & times of Philippe-August, Henry II, & their assorted broods, whether by blood or marriage. The politicking is endless. The scheming is shameless. There's no character index or marriage chart, so yours truly was hard-pressed to exercise her noodle. Feel the burn!
...Because I've also wallowed in soapy trash of the highest order. For realz. This book is wall-to-wall WTFery, complete with ped0bear sex, ped0bear marriage, gay lurve, incestuous sexytimes, & insane OTT bouts of melodrama, complete with screaming cat fights & flinging oneself on the floor to weep on the boots of their enemies. It's just THAT awesome...and I slurped it up with a fucking spoon. Is this book accurate? Who knows. And more importantly, WHO CARES?
Not me. >:D
Granted, my medieval teeth were cut on the campiest of campy medieval English mythos -- that is, the 1980s BBC show Robin of Sherwood.
We're not in this book, alas.
It's not a perfect series. The soundtrack is repetitive, the audio is murky, & the acting quality varies from excellent to horrible. The peasants are smeared with dirt like something out of Monty Python. The aristocrats are universally unlikable pricks who can't wait to stab each other in the back at the least provocation...sound familiar?
Your incompetence is the laughingstock of Christendom!
Just as my childhood self clung to the soapy, violent, & irreverent plotlines -- sprinkled with pathos, scowling, melodrama, & random insertions of supernatural intervention -- my adult self was entranced by the onslaught of WTFery & antics of Rain Maiden. While Isabel of Hainault is nominally the central character of this crazy-ass spree, it's equally divided between her ghastly royal marriage to Philippe & Philippe's complicated relations with England. You see, Philippe doesn't want to marry this adolescent vixen...or does he?
Look, Gisburne -- another simpering female to wander around the place.
From this questionable match springs 600 pages of OTT drama. As Isabel & Philippe slowly adjust to their marriage, she falls in love with him. Isabel, for her part, is suffering from improper love between father & daughter, as well as uncle & niece -- the sort of family where BJs are considered thanks for remembering one's birthday. But does Philippe love her? Eh, that's more debatable. Philippe loves sex, to be sure -- but he loves sex with EVERYONE, including each of the four Plantagenet boys.
King John -- the epitome of lecherous slimeball monarchs. :D
At any rate, the bulk of the book is a series of vignettes in which we observe Isabel, Philippe, King Henry, Queen Adele (who is an awesome shrill cougar), Bishop Sulley, & the Plantagenet boys (Harry, Geoffrey, Richard, & John) interacting in various combinations. There's also a thread of pagan vs Christian values clashing within Philippe's court, most especially within Isabel herself; the most "serious" aspect of the book is her confusion over why the men are so determined to label her a devilish seductress when God has given her a lust for physical love. It's an interesting question that's given no real resolution.
...That being said, don't be fooled by the religious angle that's piqued my interest. Bottom line: this is a medieval soap opera that alternates screaming matches, sex, & petty domestic disputes with infodumps on epic battles & political maneuvering. It has a similar feel to Game of Thrones (minus the creepy soul-sucking zombies, that is), so if you like those books you'd probably like this one. But if you're a stickler for extreme accuracy in historical novels...well, proceed with caution.
No disrespect to Alan Rickman...but Nickolas Grace is the best Sheriff ever. That is all.
February 25, 2021
Sort of Game of Thrones in one book with real people and countries. Over the top but with an underlying authentic portrayal of the era and people.
December 13, 2024
Right off the bat, if you are an avid romance reader, this is more of Tudor historical fiction with bodice ripper leanings. I say this because no HEA due to
As a GR mutual said, the marketing of Jill M. Phillips' The Rain Maiden makes it seem focused on Isabel but it is more of an ensemble cast, and if I had to be really honest, it's more like Philippe's sexual and political exploits. At times, it reminded me of any well-written fantasy novel with great politicking scenes of dialogue and action (George R.R. Martin, Tad Williams). At other times, Isabel brought to mind Emile Zola's Nana with how everyone fell under Isabel's spell and she was seen this larger-than-life figure of carnality. It also rips bodices with the best of them. There is stuff in here that would be shelved under "black romance" due to content with minors, and a lot of stuff that would not be out of place in modern smut romance (lactating kink).
Published in 1987, there was no overt racism, especially given the Crusades take up the last chunk of the novel. Also no author-inserted judgments on characters' sexualities. Yes homophobic remarks made by Henry the II when he's angry, but he's done the same back in his day, as insinuated by his sons. Sexuality is a free-for-all when you are the rich and powerful. No one judges, just gives sassy reads when feeling playfully spiteful. What felt dated was how much the hero and the heroine sleep around on each other, or the many arguments that Isabel and Philippe get into ("Don't leave me, I love you!” or "How could you do this to me, I loved you!") that feel grandiose, sentimental, ego-serving... entertaining to read, but you don’t see that in most romances nowadays. Also, how all the women threw themselves at Philippe after Isabel, that also felt dated in how the men have all the power, and the women are these sobbing messes when they are not these all-powerful nubile seductresses.
Isabel's age is what will stop you from getting too deep into the novel. Turns out I started this 10 months ago. I really enjoyed it, but the PDFiles in her life and how she was written was truly disturbing. How she was portrayed was normalized. She was 9, I believe, and already being seen as a woman. I do not want to repeat any quotes, but it was alarming that she was perceived as such, both implicitly suggested and explicitly shown to be worldly, and that she herself was ok with it.
I wish I had known so I was prepared. I had heard that Isabel was young, but I didn't understand. It made the first half of the novel a bit uncomfortable because you're not sure when there may be physical actions taking place. It was also hilarious what lines the author chose not to cross. We all know about Isabel's father and uncle but for some reason we don't know the specific sins. I suppose this was one moral the author had left.
It took me a few days to read the first 50 pages. I finished the rest in 2 days. The best parts of the novel are, in my opinion, Philippe's quest to take his revenge over King Henry the II, and his affairs with his sons. Henry the II is brought to life vividly, so too are all of his sons. Philippe's mother, Adele, and his uncles on the maternal side, are also formidable political opponents. They were messy, sassy, and slutty AF.
As for Isabel. I really wished she had more of a role. It was interesting that Philippe became almost the male version of Isabel: irresistible to other men, and I wish that Isabel had more political activity, but she spent most of her time dozing in bed. She did not shape political actions or was influenced by them. She's lost in the middle of the novel when the main relationship became that of Philippe and Geoffrey. I would have felt Isabel sidelined in her own story, except that Philippe's relationship with Richard confirmed some assumptions that Philip does hold Isabel on a pedestal as his great love, even if he's not ever with her lol.
For a romance reader, it's a lot of fun to read it, but dissatisfying. 5 stars for entertainment value but 3 stars as a romance.
Idk why but these are my favourite quotes:
Note I put ... when there is text that I've omitted. It's a wordy text!
Adele and Huges' blow-out:
"Well, you'd better believe it," she snapped at him, "because I don't believe you!"
...
He hated her for forcing him to such rage. "No!" he shouted into her face. "I have not! Are you insane?"
"Don't hide behind words," she brayed. "Have you had her? have you touched her? Has she touched you? Have you wanted her? Have you? HAVE YOU?"
...
His violence had shaken her but her arrogance was unbroken. "Yes," she finally answered. "I do believe you but only because I know you don't have the balls for it."
Henry the II and Richard's blow-out:
"I do," Henry grumbled, "and that in itself is a political affrontry to me. Three of my sons, all in their turn, running off to Philippe Capet whenever he snaps his fingers or shakes his penis!"
...
Richard touched Henry's arm lightly. "Philippe is my lover, Henry, nothing else."
"Lover!" Henry scoffed. "Christ Jesus, that's disgusting. why does he constantly seek to seduce my sons, with that delicious little cat he's married to?"
"How do you know her?" Richard asked, frowning.
The king's face lighted with the pleasant memory of Isabel. "She came to me once," Henry said and cleared his throat. "I did her a favor." he smiled at Richard's doubting look. "I saved her marriage."
"Whatever," Richard said, and waved the words away.
This sentence:
He stayed with Isabel until she slept and Adele came to lead him from the room. Outside in the corridor he fell to his knees and sobbed, beating his fists on the stone floor. Then at last, exhausted, he crawled away to a dark corner near the stairs, and vomited, and prayed to die.
This italics emphasis:
This was going to be a grueling expedition.
It needed whores.
One last note. The historical details are a lot, but once you get into the flow and rhythm, all you really need to keep apart is Philippe-Auguste (hero, slut), Philip d'Alsace of Flanders (Isabel's uncle, petty, father figure wannabe), Henry the II (king of England, Philippe's ultimate nemesis), Henri of Champagne (a minor cousin of Philippe, deeply in love with Isabel), Henry's sons (Geoffrey the trouble-maker, Harry the hot one, John the youngest, Henry's favourite but completely useless, Richard for some dumb af reason Henry doesn't like him even though he's loyal and a good soldier. Probably because he's Eleanor's fav).
As a GR mutual said, the marketing of Jill M. Phillips' The Rain Maiden makes it seem focused on Isabel but it is more of an ensemble cast, and if I had to be really honest, it's more like Philippe's sexual and political exploits. At times, it reminded me of any well-written fantasy novel with great politicking scenes of dialogue and action (George R.R. Martin, Tad Williams). At other times, Isabel brought to mind Emile Zola's Nana with how everyone fell under Isabel's spell and she was seen this larger-than-life figure of carnality. It also rips bodices with the best of them. There is stuff in here that would be shelved under "black romance" due to content with minors, and a lot of stuff that would not be out of place in modern smut romance (lactating kink).
Published in 1987, there was no overt racism, especially given the Crusades take up the last chunk of the novel. Also no author-inserted judgments on characters' sexualities. Yes homophobic remarks made by Henry the II when he's angry, but he's done the same back in his day, as insinuated by his sons. Sexuality is a free-for-all when you are the rich and powerful. No one judges, just gives sassy reads when feeling playfully spiteful. What felt dated was how much the hero and the heroine sleep around on each other, or the many arguments that Isabel and Philippe get into ("Don't leave me, I love you!” or "How could you do this to me, I loved you!") that feel grandiose, sentimental, ego-serving... entertaining to read, but you don’t see that in most romances nowadays. Also, how all the women threw themselves at Philippe after Isabel, that also felt dated in how the men have all the power, and the women are these sobbing messes when they are not these all-powerful nubile seductresses.
Isabel's age is what will stop you from getting too deep into the novel. Turns out I started this 10 months ago. I really enjoyed it, but the PDFiles in her life and how she was written was truly disturbing. How she was portrayed was normalized. She was 9, I believe, and already being seen as a woman. I do not want to repeat any quotes, but it was alarming that she was perceived as such, both implicitly suggested and explicitly shown to be worldly, and that she herself was ok with it.
I wish I had known so I was prepared. I had heard that Isabel was young, but I didn't understand. It made the first half of the novel a bit uncomfortable because you're not sure when there may be physical actions taking place. It was also hilarious what lines the author chose not to cross. We all know about Isabel's father and uncle but for some reason we don't know the specific sins. I suppose this was one moral the author had left.
It took me a few days to read the first 50 pages. I finished the rest in 2 days. The best parts of the novel are, in my opinion, Philippe's quest to take his revenge over King Henry the II, and his affairs with his sons. Henry the II is brought to life vividly, so too are all of his sons. Philippe's mother, Adele, and his uncles on the maternal side, are also formidable political opponents. They were messy, sassy, and slutty AF.
As for Isabel. I really wished she had more of a role. It was interesting that Philippe became almost the male version of Isabel: irresistible to other men, and I wish that Isabel had more political activity, but she spent most of her time dozing in bed. She did not shape political actions or was influenced by them. She's lost in the middle of the novel when the main relationship became that of Philippe and Geoffrey. I would have felt Isabel sidelined in her own story, except that Philippe's relationship with Richard confirmed some assumptions that Philip does hold Isabel on a pedestal as his great love, even if he's not ever with her lol.
For a romance reader, it's a lot of fun to read it, but dissatisfying. 5 stars for entertainment value but 3 stars as a romance.
Idk why but these are my favourite quotes:
Note I put ... when there is text that I've omitted. It's a wordy text!
Adele and Huges' blow-out:
"Well, you'd better believe it," she snapped at him, "because I don't believe you!"
...
He hated her for forcing him to such rage. "No!" he shouted into her face. "I have not! Are you insane?"
"Don't hide behind words," she brayed. "Have you had her? have you touched her? Has she touched you? Have you wanted her? Have you? HAVE YOU?"
...
His violence had shaken her but her arrogance was unbroken. "Yes," she finally answered. "I do believe you but only because I know you don't have the balls for it."
Henry the II and Richard's blow-out:
"I do," Henry grumbled, "and that in itself is a political affrontry to me. Three of my sons, all in their turn, running off to Philippe Capet whenever he snaps his fingers or shakes his penis!"
...
Richard touched Henry's arm lightly. "Philippe is my lover, Henry, nothing else."
"Lover!" Henry scoffed. "Christ Jesus, that's disgusting. why does he constantly seek to seduce my sons, with that delicious little cat he's married to?"
"How do you know her?" Richard asked, frowning.
The king's face lighted with the pleasant memory of Isabel. "She came to me once," Henry said and cleared his throat. "I did her a favor." he smiled at Richard's doubting look. "I saved her marriage."
"Whatever," Richard said, and waved the words away.
This sentence:
He stayed with Isabel until she slept and Adele came to lead him from the room. Outside in the corridor he fell to his knees and sobbed, beating his fists on the stone floor. Then at last, exhausted, he crawled away to a dark corner near the stairs, and vomited, and prayed to die.
This italics emphasis:
This was going to be a grueling expedition.
It needed whores.
One last note. The historical details are a lot, but once you get into the flow and rhythm, all you really need to keep apart is Philippe-Auguste (hero, slut), Philip d'Alsace of Flanders (Isabel's uncle, petty, father figure wannabe), Henry the II (king of England, Philippe's ultimate nemesis), Henri of Champagne (a minor cousin of Philippe, deeply in love with Isabel), Henry's sons (Geoffrey the trouble-maker, Harry the hot one, John the youngest, Henry's favourite but completely useless, Richard for some dumb af reason Henry doesn't like him even though he's loyal and a good soldier. Probably because he's Eleanor's fav).
February 9, 2019
The Rain Maiden by Jill M. Phillips was not what I expected as the kind of book that I was wanting to read, I thought I was reading a book on historical fiction/romance, what I got was the use of historical events as a backdrop to an erotica novel full of incest and homosexual love between kings and nobles just before and during the 3rd Crusade. Especially between King Phillip II of France and King Richard I (The Lionhearted) of England. As I have been saying for years that he was not a homosexual, because it was Considered a mortal sin and that it was condemned by the Church. If you want to read a well researched book on the 3rd Crusade and King Richard the Lionheart, you need to read Sharon Kay Penmans books, Lionheart and A Kings Ransom and read why she changed her opinion on King Richard being a homosexual after her extensive research on the matter. Back on the subject on the subject of the Rain Maidens historical accuracy, I found that she was accurate as far as the historical events were concerned, but they were backdrops to the erotica. The events played second to the sexual stories, even though the book was filled with historical characters, there were also a lot characters the were fictitious. This would of been a more enjoyable read if their would have been more details and telling of the historical events. As a writer I found her to be a good storyteller and a good writer, just not the type and what I was craving. If you want sex and erotica, then you should try reading this book. But if you love history and really good historical fiction then this is not a book you should read.
February 9, 2012
I liked this book quite a bit. Yes, I know it's got all kinds of sex in it, which can turn many off. It even has incest - a double turn off. But still... I enjoyed reading it. It's a big book - and kind of falls apart at the end (must be difficult to wind down such a tome). Overall I thought it was well researched - again, I know not everyone will appreciate some of the author's choices (and I don't agree with all of them either - I'd be more specific, but I'm not sure how to hide spoilers). I would recommend this book with caution, because I know it won't be everyone's cuppa.
October 16, 2011
This book took a lot out of me, but I was determined to finish all 651 pages of it. I am glad I did. It was too in depth historically for my liking and I found myself skimming through some paragraphs. I also found myself becoming teary eyed over several of the death scenes, which surprised me, as I really didn't identify with the characters much. By the end of the book, I felt as though I understood King Philippe much better and then, of course, he died too.
October 6, 2010
I read this ages ago, and found it, well, not to my taste. The incest/continual sex bit just got to me after a while and it went sailing for the wall. Lovely cover though...
June 29, 2015
I loved and hated this book, but in the end I loved it.
Isabella goes thru a lot of missery in this book, at times i didn't want to read further because it was kind of depressing. The book became a page turner in the last half of the book so I am glad I kept reading. I loved the storyline of king Henry and his sons, also the discriptions of the crusade where very realistic and felt very spot on for me. In the end an entertaining but at times depressing book with a lot of historical facts and a lot of hot sex. Certainly a book I will remember. And i love the cover art, beautifull!
Isabella goes thru a lot of missery in this book, at times i didn't want to read further because it was kind of depressing. The book became a page turner in the last half of the book so I am glad I kept reading. I loved the storyline of king Henry and his sons, also the discriptions of the crusade where very realistic and felt very spot on for me. In the end an entertaining but at times depressing book with a lot of historical facts and a lot of hot sex. Certainly a book I will remember. And i love the cover art, beautifull!
October 1, 2026
Isabel of Hainault is married off to the young king of France as a child. Her beauty and her charm makes everyone around her fall under her spell, but Philippe's ambitions may be stronger than their relationship.
This book is a work of serious historical fiction where it covers Philippe-Auguste's reign and military ambitions. It's also a work of questionable erotica when it comes to Philippe-Auguste's personal relationship with his wife, several other women, and with not one, not even two, but all four sons of Henry II of England and Eleanor of Aquitane.
Combine that with a shocking amount of incest and pedophilia (all, of course, completely unsubstantiated by the historical record), and I'm not really sure what was going through the writer's mind. That the plot would be more or less unchanged without these elements lays bare how gratuitous it is.
Anyway, I did learn a lot about this period of French and English history, and was impressed by how much of the politics of the time really were family squabbles more than everything else - King Henry even seems to regard Philippe-Auguste as some sort of erstwhile step-son.
I was also pretty interested in the push and pull between Philippe-Auguste's relationships with women and his relationships with the Plantagenet sons - the former all give him the whole-hearted support and love he desires from the Plantagenets, but he seems to always care more about what he can't have.
This book is a work of serious historical fiction where it covers Philippe-Auguste's reign and military ambitions. It's also a work of questionable erotica when it comes to Philippe-Auguste's personal relationship with his wife, several other women, and with not one, not even two, but all four sons of Henry II of England and Eleanor of Aquitane.
Combine that with a shocking amount of incest and pedophilia (all, of course, completely unsubstantiated by the historical record), and I'm not really sure what was going through the writer's mind. That the plot would be more or less unchanged without these elements lays bare how gratuitous it is.
Anyway, I did learn a lot about this period of French and English history, and was impressed by how much of the politics of the time really were family squabbles more than everything else - King Henry even seems to regard Philippe-Auguste as some sort of erstwhile step-son.
I was also pretty interested in the push and pull between Philippe-Auguste's relationships with women and his relationships with the Plantagenet sons - the former all give him the whole-hearted support and love he desires from the Plantagenets, but he seems to always care more about what he can't have.
September 23, 2025
One year later, lol.
Yeah I read through my notes and highlights of this book, now knowing a little more of the history. And I’ll just say? You really need to suspend your disbelief and not expect much in the way of historical. And do mind that pedophilia, incest, sexual abuse, necrophilia (it’s all vague but still) are trigger warnings so please proceed with caution.
I read this because I have an unhealthy obsession with all things Capetian, Philippe Auguste, and the 12th century. And also Isabel of Hainault just makes me sad and I wish there was more on her. And it’s a little sad that this is the only historical fiction centered around her.
Right so, you can read other reviews but here are the things I hyperfixated on and so here’s my disorganized rambling:
Isabel: she’s made her way in my heart the same way Dolores did. I know this is a bodice ripper from the 80s but I couldn’t help but want to save her from this whole book. She’s groomed by her uncle and father and the way she acts all book definitely checks out psychologically. Poor girl is unable to stay happy or have peace for long, and even her happiness seemed heartbreaking because you know it’s not going to last and that she’s going to die at the end of this. And yes, she sleeps with Henry II of England at one point and periodically sleeps with Henri of Champagne (oh I have so many negative feelings about this guy) to cope with loneliness, emotional neglect, but never love unless it’s Philippe. I feel like there were better ways to articulate how I feel about this character but I think “she’s become so dear to me” sums it up.
Philippe and Isabel: yes, I know, probably an unpopular or controversial opinion here. Considering how stormy this relationship and how little they are together (and I agree because I wanted more moments for these two) and also the fact that they cheat on each other throughout the novel (Philippe sleeping his way through the Angevin brothers is somehow the funniest and one of the most unbelievable parts of the book because at some point it seemed like a fetish). But Philippe is the only one who looks at her and goes “yeah so a little girl shouldn’t be this aware of sexual things” and he’s also the only one in the end who seems to remember her as a person and not just how beautiful she was. When they’re happy, they’re really happy. And it’s fun to read so that’s why it’s a bummer they don’t get enough time to explore what exactly makes these two love each other aside from being mirrors.
Also another thing?
The book is just funny too. There are moments where you just have to laugh at the quotes or what’s happening and the general melodrama. And I’ll never forget the comparison of a man’s privates as a gem harder than a diamond and redder than a ruby. That sent me.
It was funny how everyone just slept with everyone.
And the whole tagline: You are mine until the grave makes ghosts out of both of us. That, for some reason hit me. Especially when you get context or at least how Philippe will keep thinking about it.
Richard I slander: this book was not kind to the Lionheart and for that it gets a whole extra star. I’m here to slander that brute.
What I hated and there is one and this will be long:
Henri II of Champagne: of all the changed up historical figures, this guy really got the shaft. And I hated him. Because we’re supposed to believe that he was deeply in love with Isabelle and he was the better choice because “aww he’s so sweet” which sure if you ignore the fact that he met a 9 year old girl when he was 20 and started fantasizing about her and then when his cousin-uncle (yes Philippe is both but the book conveniently leaves out that Philippe’s eldest half sister is Henri’s mother) married her, he came to court and worked under him so he could be close to the beauty he lost. His sweetness to Isabel really sort of tries to disguise the fact that he’s actually awful in a book where everyone sucks. The way he speaks about his wife, how he’s willing to throw his family away for Isabel. How he’s claims to be her friend but never actually does anything that’s good for her. But he gave “nice guy” vibes. And for me, that made him irredeemable. And let’s get into actual history: he was aged up by 7 years for this book, he was actually not even 4 years older than Isabel and in reality, dude did not care beyond being annoyed on a political level. He was betrothed two more times (one being Isabelle’s sister Yolanda who does not exist in the book) and showed no interest in marriage until he married Isabella of Jerusalem in 1192 whom he actually did seem to love. History has him at: he was hardworking and nothing special and somehow I prefer that to whatever this version of him is.
Another thing? And this is more funny and a wasted opportunity: Philippe and Isabel should’ve had a threesome with Geoffrey. That would’ve healed them both.
Other things I hated were the obvious dated tropes, the casual racism thrown in there (yes it is), etc.
I also hated how after a point, Isabel’s story got put to the side in favor of the Angevin drama. The book sped run the last three years of Isabel’s life while Geoffrey the Angel of Death was following her around. The book is supposed to be centered around her and her marriage to Philippe and i wish that’s how it stayed. Yes I liked the messiness, however.
But yeah this book was messy, definitely indulgent, definitely dated, but it was oddly a fun time and I enjoyed it and it’s very much living in my head rent free a year later.
I know Isabel of Hainault is not a known queen but I feel like she deserves more in the way of historical fiction than “Philippe Auguste’s first wife who gave him an heir” because they were married for ten years and the girl did publicly shame him into not divorcing her and I feel like you can do so much in the way of that.
Anyway, got all that off my chest lol. If anyone reads this and disagrees that’s fine. You don’t have to.
Yeah I read through my notes and highlights of this book, now knowing a little more of the history. And I’ll just say? You really need to suspend your disbelief and not expect much in the way of historical. And do mind that pedophilia, incest, sexual abuse, necrophilia (it’s all vague but still) are trigger warnings so please proceed with caution.
I read this because I have an unhealthy obsession with all things Capetian, Philippe Auguste, and the 12th century. And also Isabel of Hainault just makes me sad and I wish there was more on her. And it’s a little sad that this is the only historical fiction centered around her.
Right so, you can read other reviews but here are the things I hyperfixated on and so here’s my disorganized rambling:
Isabel: she’s made her way in my heart the same way Dolores did. I know this is a bodice ripper from the 80s but I couldn’t help but want to save her from this whole book. She’s groomed by her uncle and father and the way she acts all book definitely checks out psychologically. Poor girl is unable to stay happy or have peace for long, and even her happiness seemed heartbreaking because you know it’s not going to last and that she’s going to die at the end of this. And yes, she sleeps with Henry II of England at one point and periodically sleeps with Henri of Champagne (oh I have so many negative feelings about this guy) to cope with loneliness, emotional neglect, but never love unless it’s Philippe. I feel like there were better ways to articulate how I feel about this character but I think “she’s become so dear to me” sums it up.
Philippe and Isabel: yes, I know, probably an unpopular or controversial opinion here. Considering how stormy this relationship and how little they are together (and I agree because I wanted more moments for these two) and also the fact that they cheat on each other throughout the novel (Philippe sleeping his way through the Angevin brothers is somehow the funniest and one of the most unbelievable parts of the book because at some point it seemed like a fetish). But Philippe is the only one who looks at her and goes “yeah so a little girl shouldn’t be this aware of sexual things” and he’s also the only one in the end who seems to remember her as a person and not just how beautiful she was. When they’re happy, they’re really happy. And it’s fun to read so that’s why it’s a bummer they don’t get enough time to explore what exactly makes these two love each other aside from being mirrors.
Also another thing?
The book is just funny too. There are moments where you just have to laugh at the quotes or what’s happening and the general melodrama. And I’ll never forget the comparison of a man’s privates as a gem harder than a diamond and redder than a ruby. That sent me.
It was funny how everyone just slept with everyone.
And the whole tagline: You are mine until the grave makes ghosts out of both of us. That, for some reason hit me. Especially when you get context or at least how Philippe will keep thinking about it.
Richard I slander: this book was not kind to the Lionheart and for that it gets a whole extra star. I’m here to slander that brute.
What I hated and there is one and this will be long:
Henri II of Champagne: of all the changed up historical figures, this guy really got the shaft. And I hated him. Because we’re supposed to believe that he was deeply in love with Isabelle and he was the better choice because “aww he’s so sweet” which sure if you ignore the fact that he met a 9 year old girl when he was 20 and started fantasizing about her and then when his cousin-uncle (yes Philippe is both but the book conveniently leaves out that Philippe’s eldest half sister is Henri’s mother) married her, he came to court and worked under him so he could be close to the beauty he lost. His sweetness to Isabel really sort of tries to disguise the fact that he’s actually awful in a book where everyone sucks. The way he speaks about his wife, how he’s willing to throw his family away for Isabel. How he’s claims to be her friend but never actually does anything that’s good for her. But he gave “nice guy” vibes. And for me, that made him irredeemable. And let’s get into actual history: he was aged up by 7 years for this book, he was actually not even 4 years older than Isabel and in reality, dude did not care beyond being annoyed on a political level. He was betrothed two more times (one being Isabelle’s sister Yolanda who does not exist in the book) and showed no interest in marriage until he married Isabella of Jerusalem in 1192 whom he actually did seem to love. History has him at: he was hardworking and nothing special and somehow I prefer that to whatever this version of him is.
Another thing? And this is more funny and a wasted opportunity: Philippe and Isabel should’ve had a threesome with Geoffrey. That would’ve healed them both.
Other things I hated were the obvious dated tropes, the casual racism thrown in there (yes it is), etc.
I also hated how after a point, Isabel’s story got put to the side in favor of the Angevin drama. The book sped run the last three years of Isabel’s life while Geoffrey the Angel of Death was following her around. The book is supposed to be centered around her and her marriage to Philippe and i wish that’s how it stayed. Yes I liked the messiness, however.
But yeah this book was messy, definitely indulgent, definitely dated, but it was oddly a fun time and I enjoyed it and it’s very much living in my head rent free a year later.
I know Isabel of Hainault is not a known queen but I feel like she deserves more in the way of historical fiction than “Philippe Auguste’s first wife who gave him an heir” because they were married for ten years and the girl did publicly shame him into not divorcing her and I feel like you can do so much in the way of that.
Anyway, got all that off my chest lol. If anyone reads this and disagrees that’s fine. You don’t have to.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
September 27, 2019
This work of historical fiction is mostly about King Philippe and Queen Isabel of France during the a period of the early 1100's to King Philippe's death in 1223. All the physical battles, and power maneuvering of the various Plantagenet rulers (including Henry II, and Richard the Lion Hearted), various Flemish leaders including Isabel's family, and Philippe. The history I found interesting. The fictional part, not so much. Pretty much everybody sleeps with everybody--which is probably about a third of the book. I'm sure there was plenty of sleeping around to go with all the conniving and power mongering, but it really did little to move the story along. This was an interesting time period--Notre Dame Cathedral was built during this time, and much of what we know as France today, was actually controlled by the Plantagenet family based in England.
April 17, 2020
Fantastic book. I really enjoyed this one. I haven't read a lot of historical books set in early France but if I can find more like this, that will change.
Currently Reading
August 17, 2021Sounds readable and good for exposure therapy. Beautiful cover.
Read
October 17, 2021Got 10% through and it just didn't quite grip me, so I've given up. Maybe I'll try again someday.
January 22, 2015
I like historical fiction (Sharon Kay Penman is a favorite), so I picked this book up at a used bookstore. I didn't have huge hopes because the cover art seems more romance than history, and the book didn't disappoint. It's the soapiest, most ridiculous historical fiction I've ever read. The author evidently could not make up her mind whether she wanted to write a serious historical novel or a bodice buster, and so she wrote both. I enjoyed the portions of the book that were grounded in actual history, and it was nice to view the Plantagenets through the eyes of the French for a change. But then there was the sex. I'm no prude, so it isn't the amount of sex in the book that bothered me. It was the silliness and ick factor of it. Philippe Capet drew all but one of Henry II's sons into homosexual affairs? Really? And Isabel is a slut who sleeps with everyone without giving it a second thought? This, by the way, includes Henry II (?) and her own father and uncle. And the descriptions! Terrible, and kind of obsessed with body hair. Everyone nibbling each other's beards, and no, that isn't a euphemism for oral sex. Nibbling beard hair? That's supposed to be sexy? Licking sweaty, hairy armpits? Gross. I found myself skipping past the sex encounters just because the writing was so bad. If you're looking for good historical fiction, skip this book. If you're looking for weird medieval sex, skip through this book.
February 17, 2011
It's not the best historical fiction novel I've ever read, but it was entertaining. I admit, I picked up this book hoping for a lot of lascivious bits and pieces, but alas, it more bits than it was whole pieces. Sure there was a lot of sex, but a lot of it included incest, homo- and hetero- ...and perhaps a hint of necro throw in just for kicks. Yeah, I know. I will give you one spoiler: the story begins with Queen Isabel and ends with King Phillipe. Would I read it again? Probably not. But like I said, it was entertaining for what it was worth.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
April 25, 2013
I picked this up to read because a former colleague recommended it to me. That was so long ago, I didn't remember what the book was about. It was a retelling of the reign of King Philippe-Auguste of France and his Queen Isabella of Flanders (ca. 1190). My, they were a pair surrounded by a wild cast of characters stretching from England to Flanders. I'm so grateful I did not live at that time and was not subject to the caprices of royalty. Jill Phillips wove a good tale full of palace intrigues and complex characters. Sometimes I liked them and other times they were simply odious.
November 17, 2012
I read this book years ago, when it was first released in paperback. The story stuck with me and over time, I lost the book and forgot the title, but I finally found it after many years of searching for it. I bought it from a used book seller and plan on reading it again.
Read
September 23, 2013Yes! Been trying to remember the title of this book I read many, many moons ago, and saw it at the library sale, and as soon as I saw it, I knew it was the one. I didn't buy it, but at least now I know the title so I can get it if I ever have the urge to read it again someday. Yay! :)
November 30, 2009
this book is a historical fiction, the setting historical, the sex plausibly historical but reads ultra fiction.
Want to Read
August 25, 2014Marked to read
Did Not Finish
August 24, 2017DNF at page 120, no rating.
I can’t suspend my disbelief that a 10-, 11-year-old girl is that intellectually and politically precocious. Sexually, yes, because she’s been groomed. Educationally yes, because she’s been educated. Some of the leaps in logic she makes only really come (and stick in your mind) with life experience and she’s 10, and grew up sheltered in a household where she was adored. She doesn’t have any life experience.
While I can believe that it’s a possibility the girl is that savvy at 10-11, the probability is too slim for me.
Note: If I had read this as a 15-year-old I would’ve loved it, although I would’ve been beating myself up for being so stupid by comparison.
I can’t suspend my disbelief that a 10-, 11-year-old girl is that intellectually and politically precocious. Sexually, yes, because she’s been groomed. Educationally yes, because she’s been educated. Some of the leaps in logic she makes only really come (and stick in your mind) with life experience and she’s 10, and grew up sheltered in a household where she was adored. She doesn’t have any life experience.
While I can believe that it’s a possibility the girl is that savvy at 10-11, the probability is too slim for me.
Note: If I had read this as a 15-year-old I would’ve loved it, although I would’ve been beating myself up for being so stupid by comparison.
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