Zones of Thought: A Fire Upon the Deep / A Deepness in the Sky

Zones of Thought #1-2

by Vernor Vinge

Vinge's masterpieces together at last, in one epic volumeThe Hugo Award winning A FIRE UPON THE DEEP and its epic companion novel A DEEPNESS IN THE SKY, set in the same universe but 20,000 years earlier, were benchmarks for SF in the last decade of the 20th century. In FIRE 'Vinge presents a galaxy divided into Zones - regions where different physical constraints allow very different technological and mental possibilities. Earth remains in the "Slowness" zone, where nothing can travel faster than light and minds are fairly limited. The action of the book is in the "Beyond", where translight travel and other marvels exist, and humans are one of many intelligent species. One human colony has been experimenting to find a path to the "Transcend", where intelligence and power are so great as to seem godlike. Instead they release the Blight, an evil power, from a billion-year captivity.' Publisher's Weekly In DEEPNESS, 'the story has the same sense of epic vastness despite happening mostly in one isolated solar system. Here there's a world of intelligent spider creatures who traditionally hibernate through the "Deepest Darkness" of their strange variable sun's long "off" periods, when even the atmosphere freezes. Now, science offers them an alternative. Meanwhile, attracted by spider radio transmissions, two human starfleets come exploring - merchants hoping for customers and tyrants who want slaves. Their inevitable clash leaves both fleets crippled, with the power in the wrong hands, which leads to a long wait in space until the spiders develop exploitable technology. Over the years Vinge builds palpable tension through multiple storylines and characters.' Dave Langford

Genres: Science Fiction, Fiction, Space Opera, Fantasy, Audiobook, Science Fiction Fantasy, Speculative Fiction

972 pages, Kindle Edition

First published October 1, 2010

About the author

Vernor Steffen Vinge is a retired San Diego State University Professor of Mathematics, computer scientist, and science fiction author. He is best known for his Hugo Award-winning novels A Fire Upon The Deep (1992), A Deepness in the Sky (1999) and Rainbows End (2006), his Hugo Award-winning novellas Fast Times at Fairmont High (2002) and The Cookie Monster (2004), as well as for his 1993 essay "The Coming Technological Singularity", in which he argues that exponential growth in technology will reach a point beyond which we cannot even speculate about the consequences.

http://us.macmillan.com/author/vernor...

Reviews

[Steve Wasling · Rating 5 out of 5]

As this monster book contains two often recommended novels by Vernor Vinge, I'm going to review them separately as they are really quite different. I had (half) written a longer review but due to a slip of the back button on my browser I lost it and had to start again!

** A Fire Upon the Deep - 4/5 stars **

I have tried to read this novel some time ago but found it way too hard to get into, not least because of a scene near the beginning (a family being killed in front of their children!) that was just a little too grim! Luckily I persevered because I really enjoyed it once it got going.

In reality this is almost two stories; One concerns two children who crash land on a planet of medieval aliens after fleeing a research facility with their family. Their parents are killed by the primitive (compared to the greater universe) inhabitants of the world and are then separated from each other, seized by different factions. The aliens themselves are among the most creative I've ever had the pleasure of reading about. Each individual wolf-like alien is not much more than an animal but they act to together as a pack of typically about five creatures who together form an intelligent being! This was very confusing at first as didn't quite grasp that 'Peregrine' and 'Wickrackum' were actually the same person. It was even more confusing when 'one' of his members died and he adopted another lost singleton to become 'Wickwrackscar'! Anyway, you get used to it surprisingly quickly and the 'tines' could almost be characters that would happily fit in an epic fantasy novel.

The other story thread concerns a group of characters in the greater universe who are travelling across space amid the chaos unwittingly unleashed by the children's parents, among others, believing that in rescuing the children they might discover a way to stop this new and incredibly powerful enemy. Although the characters (including a couple of sentient alien plants!) and the places they visit are interesting, I didn't find these sections as interesting as those that took place on the 'Tines' world. Still, everything comes together in a satisfying conclusion and we get the long sought after showdown with the extremely nasty villain of the story. I have to say, Mr Vinge writes some really, really nasty (and competent!) villains!

This novel definitely deserves all the praise it receives and I definitely recommend it, thought not as much as...

** A Deepness in the Sky - 5/5 stars **

In the previous novel a spacefaring group of merchants called the Queng Ho are mentioned for reasons I will not go into. This book takes place some unknown time in the past and in part explains their story. In Vernor Vinge's 'Zones of Thought' universe there are a number of different zones that comprise out galaxy and limit technological progress; This book takes place in 'The Slow Zone' where faster than light travel is impossible and anybody wishing to travel between that stars needs to go into cold sleep in order to survive the incredible duration of an interstellar voyage. The Queng Ho are a vast scattered society of spacefarers who often outlive planetary civilizations while on their epic voyages.

This wonderful story concerns a Queng Ho expedition to a star that mysteriously turns itself off and on and to the nearby planet whose spider-like inhabitants have adapted to live in such a hostile and, for large periods of time, inhospitable environment. Unfortunately for the Queng Ho, they are not the only ones that are interested in this mysterious star system and they soon find themselves at odds with another expedition from a deeply unpleasant civilization called The Emergents.

Of course, being Vernor Vinge, this isn't the only view point of the story. We get to see the fantastic world of the spiders at ground level through some great spider characters themselves. These characters, though alien, are very likeable and incredibly Human. As the decades pass we get to see the spiders world advance technologically and socially while the Human visitors from across the stars observe unseen and fight their own battles.

As the story advances, the tension rises to near unbearable levels as the future of the Queng Ho and the spiders is threatened by some of the nastiest villains I've ever had the misfortune to read about! I can't remember the last time I've wanted a bunch of bad guys to be defeated as much as I did these ones...

I'm not going to talk about how this book ends because I really don't want to spoil a thing but I really do recommend it as a true science fiction classic, up there with best.

[S Wood · Rating 5 out of 5]

Actually, I read this novel all the way back in 2001. I remember being totally caught up in it, but in the second reading, was truly astonished, to the point I don’t think I really understood it the first time! Vinge conceived the concept of the singularity .... and this novel essentially depicts a universe in which the singularity has occurred. His concept is truly a feat of imagination. I suspect that were I a computer scientist, I would even “get it” more.

Vinge was on the faculty at San Diego University when I read it, so I found his email and wrote him a note. He replied, explaining that he was planning to deliver a follow up novel even that year ... which in fact didn’t happen until 2011: Children Of The Sky, which I now look forward to reading.

This is a 600 pg behemoth and will test your mettle. But what is reading if not a means of expanding your ways of thinking and opening up new worlds of imagination?

[SubterraneanCatalyst · Rating 3 out of 5]

I'm giving this 3 1/2 stars. (is there a way to give half stars? lol)

This is a good book but I didn't walk away feeling amazed or really reveling over everything that happens like I would a truly amazing book.
I can't write a summary without major spoilers so suffice it to say that essentially humans are space traders, the Qeng Ho, or those that stick to a planet mostly. One of the fleets of Qeng Ho heads for a system that hasn't been explored and promises much fortune and contact with the first living alien species. In this universe the humans have never found a surviving and contemporary alien civilization. The major issue is that another group of humans have moved in on the prize along with the Qeng Ho, the Emergents. The Emergents made the Borg from Star Trek TNG look honest and mild IMO. As far as enemies go they are five star enemies.

I agree with other reviewers that the aliens (spiders) in the story are extremely anthropomorphic. These spiders are more humanized than humanoid aliens I've read about in other sci fi books lol. I think that it's almost impossible to create a 'truly' alien alien. One way or another an author is going to make them seem human and one of the easiest ways an author can help destroy the comfort zone with another intelligent species is to make them physically drastically different and or disgusting. Unless you have a serious spider phobia this isn't an issue. In fact I was confused at the start of the book because other than subtle hints in speech and description I thought the spiders were humans!

My main issue with the book is that I think the spiders were too forgiving.

The ending is satisfying if you prefer to have all loose ends taken care of. I will read the 'next' installment of this to see how the journey continues because I'm honestly interested in what happens to the characters that journeys on to his next quest.

The good: truly bad enemies, a sense of epic time/aging, I highlighted a few passages because they were emotionally provoking and beautiful

The bad: aliens were far too human despite beings spiders, the ending seemed too after school special.

[Lisa (Harmonybites) · Rating 4 out of 5]

I love me a good space opera--and this is one both grand and original. This is known as the Zones of Thought series because of the structure of Vinge's imagined galaxy. In it, there are various zones that allow for different levels of tech and intelligence. In the "Mindless Depths" of the Galactic core no intelligent life is possible. The zone of "Great Slowness" that contains the now dead Earth contains intelligent life, yes, but you must go father out into the "Beyond" for faster than light travel and artificial intelligence to be possible. And beyond that, in the "Transcend" there are God-like Powers at best indifferent to ordinary sapient, and in some cases malignant.

Against this backdrop humans have long made it to the Beyond, and in this series we also encounter some of the most memorable, original and endearing aliens I've read in science fiction. In A Fire Upon a Deep there are the dog-like Tines who have packs that form one individual mind, and the Riders--something like potted plants--or potted sea weed. In A Deepness in the Sky there are the "Spiders" of Arachna. And in both cases they interesting not just as races but as individuals. The second book is a prequel to the first, with Pham Nuwen, one of the most intriguing human characters in the series as the common factor.

Peaking at reviews a lot of people expressed disappointment in the third book, a direct sequel to A Fire Upon the Deep. I beg to differ though--I thoroughly enjoyed myself, and found the third book just as suspenseful and moving as the previous novels in Zones of Thought trilogy--or, I think, series, since given where this ends this demands more. Maybe that's why some found this a let down. Either of the first books could be read as stand alones. There's a good case to be made for reading either of those first two books first. That's not true of The Children of the Sky. It's no standalone, and I'm glad I had recently read A Fire Upon the Deep otherwise I imagine I might have been a bit lost. Children of the Sky begins two years after the first book ends. We meet a lot of old friends again: Pilgrim, Woodcarver, Amdi, Ravna, Johanna, Jefri--and well, others not so cuddly. But there are new characters, alien and human into the mix. If I have any criticism, it's that one development that is supposed to be a shock I could see coming a mile away--although my clue was this writerly thing that those who don't pay close attention to technique might not notice. Otherwise I'm still very charmed by the dog-like Tines, still find Vinge a remarkable storyteller, and I'm looking forward to the next (and last?) book in this series.

[Chuck · Rating 4 out of 5]

The universe: information travels at different speeds in different locations in the universe. In the slowest zones, life cannot even exist, and in the fastest, existence is godlike. Earth lives in one of the slower zones where information is limited to the speed of light. Some humans travel out of that slow zone and join other cultures in the medium zone where the story is.

Scientists/Archaeologists revive an evil AI that wants to take over the universe. It wipes most of them out, but two kids escape and crash on a world with intelligent dogs (with long necks) living in a medieval world. The kids on their ship also have the "cure" to the AI, left to them by their parents. The kids have adventures dealing with the dogs. The dogs themselves gain intelligence by grouping themselves in packs of 4-8 and then thinking together using ultra low frequencies to link up their group minds.

While the kids are on the planet of the dogs having their fun, the galaxy is having issues with the AI wreaking havoc on everything. As a countermeasure, the AI convinces folks that the destruction is because the humans are in line with the AI, and many of the species of the galaxy attack humans. A couple humans, with some plant/fern-like creatures set off to find the kids, hoping that they will have the clues to fight the AI. The plant/fern-like creatures (who we like) were actually made by the bad AI a long time ago, and can be manipulated by the AI causing distress to them, and this of course challenges the team of rescuers.

The rescuers finally find the kids, bring peace to the dog world, and one of the human rescuers ends up being kind of built by one of the good super AI's and with the help of the Bad-AI cure left on the crashed spaceship of kids, is able to modify the fast/slow zones of space by trapping the bad AI in a slow zone and saving the universe.

[DaveC426913 · Rating 5 out of 5]

Really enjoyed.

I avoided this series for a long time because I prefer my science fiction near-future and harder than far-flung wizardry stuff. This "Zones of Thought" theme sounded a little too fantastical - like Dune.

But the ZoT stuff was more a backdrop against which the story played out. The story itself was about a race across an arm of the galaxy to save a child, and discovering the secret that would affect the course of civilization in this arm. At the same time, the child's captors - an alien race of dog-like telepaths - were seeking to leverage this newcomer to rule their world.

The aliens - called Tines, for their paw-mounted blade weapons - were very well fleshed out and fascinating.

The juxtaposition between high-tech race across space and low-tech race across a world is a great format for keeping the story fresh and exciting.

[Katy · Rating 3 out of 5]

A Fire Upon the Deep: 4*
A Deepness in the Sky: 3*

Space opera. I really liked the concepts of the main alien species in both books. Both stories are written with several threads, but unfortunately the "alien" threads were 10 times more interesting to me than the "human" parts, which made for an uneven read - the first book brought things together much earlier than the second, which is probably part of why I enjoyed that more.

Also, the second book involved way too much scheming for my taste, and every plot involving Qiwi really put me off.

There are a lot of typos in the Kindle version, especially in book two (A1 instead of AI almost every time, the word "hand" is italicised for no reason almost every time, random commas everywhere).

[Donald · Rating 3 out of 5]

These are really only loosely a book and prequel in that a higher consciousness used the memories of a main character in the prequel to create an avatar. That aside they're two different time frames and areas of the universe. I'll give it too him though, his aliens are unique. The first has sentient plants that trundle about on wheels, and psychic talking dog aliens that aren't a person without melding multiple bodies and minds into a single 'pack'.
There's a sequel, which with my library still closed and not in their ebooks, that I won't be reading anytime soon, I just hope it bridges the gap between these books...

[Nestor · Rating 2 out of 5]

Actually, there are three books in one that try to link the history of humanity's expansion through the Milky Way after leaving Earth. Vernor Vinge is a great creator of extra-terrestrial worlds, the characters are nice, and the book is nicely written, though I didn't feel connected. A Fire Upon the Deep is a little bit long and uninteresting. A Deepness in the Sky is much better, though a little bit longer than it should be after the war has ended. I found the third, The Children of the Sky, a little bit boring repeating "humankind history" as if it were alien, also the world's alien creation is poor and the characters have no shape, no deep.

[Charles · Rating 4 out of 5]

Vernor Vinge is clearly a master of the space opera genre. This universe, both stories are in the same universe, is truly comprehensive and totally engaging. I would happily read 100 more in this space.
The characters are novel and engrossing. Pham and the Qing Ho could easily rival the Future History universe, but with even better aliens.

[Niko · Rating 4 out of 5]

I really liked the universe he set up. Unfortunately, the part of his universe that drew me in the least got more and more attention as the book went on, only to become the focus of the sequel. I wanted to see more stuff happening in space. Still enjoyed it though.

[Yiffurself . · Rating 5 out of 5]

Wonderful that first chapter as the import of what is happening is still with me months and months later, I’m finally writing my first review I think I’ll read it again

[Des Cave · Rating 4 out of 5]

Both of the books are good, with a lot of of good science and of course fiction. But the second book is very tenuously linked to the first and really I think they are two separate stories.

[Jordan Couch · Rating 5 out of 5]

One of my all-time favorite series

[Andrea · Rating 5 out of 5]

I read these a long time ago before I had a goodreads account but I really liked them.

[saradevil · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is just some incredible science fiction fantasy.

[Sebastian Kloss · Rating 3 out of 5]

A Fire Upon the Deep: ****
A Deepness in the Sky: **

[Richard Campbell · Rating 5 out of 5]

Classics

Bought this simply to read A Fire Upon the Deep, which was brilliant and was really happy that A Deepness in the Sky was also excellent. Highly recommended.

[Philip Dickinson]

See my ratings on the individual books.

[Laurie · Rating 5 out of 5]

"In one volume: two epic space operas that re-defined the genre" reads the cover blurb, and - boy oh -boy - this time you can believe the hype.

Two superb entertainments in this weighty tome, each of which I happily give 5 of 5 stars.

The first, 'A Fire Upon the Deep", introduces the concept of a galaxy divided into zones, where differing physical constraints allow very different technologies and possibilities. In this universe we set upon a grand adventure, as an evil Blight, a billion years old, is accidentally loosed to destroy solar systems, civilizations, galaxies - with the key to stopping it on a spaceship, crashed on a planet with only two human children survivors, who are separated and taken captive by one of the most fascinating alien cultures - where intelligence and personality can only be achieved by individuals coming together in a complementary pack - a pre-industrial civilization hell-bent on planetary conquest; while a spaceship races ahead of the Blight and other hostile forces to get to the planet, discover the countermeasure, and survive long enough to implement it. Thrilling.

The second, "A Deepness in the Sky", takes place millennia earlier, and has two competing and predatory groups of traders going to a unique planet - with a star that cycles from hot to cold, and a planet that is alive for 35 years than cold and desolate for 215 more, and a strange intelligent species that hibernates through the cold, desperately trying to advance their civilization on the warm periods. Overall an enthralling page-turner.

Both are filled with adventure, suspense, and fascinating concepts; all introduced skilfully in the narrative without ever needing to pontificate or explain; absolute masterpieces of tension woven through memorable story-lines and characters.

967 pages of sheer entertainment.

[Fraa · Rating 3 out of 5]

so I have several questions about a Deepness in the Sky. there's plenty of SPOILERS here so STOP reading now if you have not yet read this book. STOP READING UNLESS YOU WANT TO KNOW THE END. STOP NOW.

i finished the book today and enjoyed reading it very much.

but i came away confused at the end. i still do not understand how the spiders were able to communicate with the humans and sabotage their plans. what did i miss?

i re-read all the explanations of videomancy: "...the superstition that if you could only picture your enemies perfectly, you would have power over them."

ok i get that.

but how was sherkaner able to penetrate anne reynolt's networks? how was sherk able to "picture" his enemies? i thought the ending was super confusing and i'm lost right now.

more questions -
vinge explains that the Focused translators, Trixia included, were very sympathetic to the spiders and opened a line of communication with them? how was this done? where is this explained?
and even if the Focused were able to communicate directly with the spiders, how was this not picked up by anyone?
and how were the Focused able to deviate from their Focus and do something independent of their enslavement?
the nukes - so real nukes were launched at Southhold and we are left wondering if General Smith and Hrukner Unnerby survived the blasts. that i understand.
but who launched these nukes then? the humans via their control of the Accord's networks?

very confusing.

[Jenny · Rating 5 out of 5]

Two spectacular books. I'm not sure how I've only just discovered Vernor Vinge but he is now on my favourites list. A must-read for any science fiction fan who enjoys sweeping space operas and convincing aliens (the Tines and the Spiders have have to be two of the best written aliens I have come across).

I can see how people may not like how humanised the Spiders are, but for me it meant that when we did get real glimpses of their true form, it had a much greater impact. As an arachnaphobe, it really gave me chills. The reasoning for this all makes sense in the end.

The universe in which the books inhabit is a fascinating take on how zones of a galaxy affects life and I found the sense of scale of both time and space was very well done. I look forward to returning to this universe in The Children of the Sky.

Highly recommended.

[James Broussard · Rating 2 out of 5]

I was unimpressed with this book. After all the great books that have been nominated for the Hugo and Nebula that described truly alien civilizations it is depressing to read this Hugo winner which has a whole variety of alien cultures that talk think and act just like human beings.

That was the one part I was never able to get past, though now that I've got that out of my system I'd say this book was just okay, but to enter it with muted expectations.

[Ddraig · Rating 4 out of 5]

Fantastic SF from Vernor Vinge. As a bonus you have the concept of the technological singularity explained to you, by the guy who invented the idea.

REALLY REALLY REALLY UNIMPRESSED BY THE TYPOS IN BOOK TWO

Really unimpressed. I'm kind of used to it by now with that giant sinkhole of unprofessional rubbish known as Kindle, but completely shocked to find it in an actual deadtrees book.

Still worth the read, though

[Ed Smith · Rating 3 out of 5]

Read Deepness seperately then thought I might as well buy both together - a little disappointed with Fire, just seemed a little too superficial compared to Deepness without the darkness that makes sci-fi so good!

[Magnus Itland]

I began reading this book, but realized that I no longer have the interest for science fiction that I used to have. It is not a judgment of the book, which seems excellent and to be recommended for those who still enjoy the genre.

[Sonia · Rating 3 out of 5]

how many ways can you tell a story? Apparently more then 4, 5? This book tells a longwinded story from several points of view. I think it would have been better with less talk and more action. But that's usually my opinion about most things.

[William · Rating 4 out of 5]

Finally finished! Only took 5 months... Very good read. I think the second book was a bit too long but maybe that's just because I was so busy and unable to read it quickly. Lots of interesting scifi ideas about alien races and FTL travel and coldsleep and others, all amongst rousing stories.

[Eric Taillefer · Rating 3 out of 5]

I would not qualify theses books as masterpiece. The story is okay but simple. Sometimes it's long and it doesn't propel me as would a "real" science fiction book would, like Dune or Fondation. I'm happy to have read it nonetheless

[Cailan · Rating 4 out of 5]

"a fire upon the deep" was pretty good, but I thought "a deepness in the sky" was excellent.