The Vine Project

The Vine Project

by Colin Marshall

In this much-anticipated book, Colin Marshall and Tony Payne answer the question they have been asked countless times by pastors and church leaders all around the world since the publication of The Trellis and the Vine. The question goes like "Look, I've read your book, and it expresses what I have always thought about Christian ministry. But as I kept reading, I had this sinking feeling that what actually happens in our church is still a long way from the kind of disciple-making ministry vision you outline and that I believe in. So my question is What can we do about it? How can we shape the whole culture of our church around disciple-making?" In The Vine Project, Marshall and Payne provide a roadmap and resources for this sort of church-wide culture change. The book guides your ministry leadership team through a five-phase process for growth and change, with biblical input, practical ideas, resources, case studies, exercises and projects along the way. You will be helped clarify and sharpen your convictions (Phase 1) reform your own personal life to express these convictions (Phase 2) honestly evaluate every aspect of your current church (or ministry) culture (Phase 3) devise some key plans for change and put them into effect (Phase 4) keep the momentum going and overcome obstacles (Phase 5). The Trellis and the Vine proposed a "ministry mind-shift that changes everything". The Vine Project shows how that mind-shift can and must shape every aspect of what you are doing as a congregation of Christ's people to make disciples of all nations.

Genres: Discipleship, Church, Christian, Leadership, Theology, Christianity, Nonfiction

355 pages, Paperback

Published September 4, 2022

About the author

Colin is married to Jacquie and they have three adult children, Karyn, Deborah and Jonathon.

Together with Jacquie he has spent the past 30 years training men and women in the ministry of the gospel, both in university and local church contexts. He is a graduate of Moore Theological College, Sydney.

He is the author of The Trellis and the Vine, Growth Groups, a training course for small group leaders, and Passing the Baton, a handbook for ministry apprenticeship.

Until 2006 he directed The Ministry Training Strategy, a ministry apprenticeship movement.

Reviews

[Brian Pate · Rating 5 out of 5]

I read this in 2023 with my fellow pastors in Brazil. This book is more than just a Christian version of The Advantage by Lencioni. It is a theological and practical manual for church growth. This book will guide a church staff to articulate their DNA and craft a strategy for moving forward.

[Coalición por el Evangelio]

«El proyecto de la vid: Moldea tu cultura ministerial en torno al discipulado» se presenta como una hoja de ruta hacia un plan integral y estratégico que ayudará a promover una cultura de discípulos que hacen discípulos. No es un libro para leer una vez y volverlo a poner en el estante; es una guía para un proyecto o un viaje. Basándose en su convincente teología bíblica del discipulado, Marshall y Payne seleccionan y aplican hábilmente los principios virtuosos, y bíblicamente aceptables, de la cultura empresarial al contexto del ministerio.

Lee la reseña en Coalición por el Evangelio.

[Jamie Thompson · Rating 5 out of 5]

Wow. Such a great book on disciple-making. I love how he breaks down why the “way we do things around here” can either be strategic or not at all. So practical, so thought out, so wise.

[Eric Durso · Rating 4 out of 5]

Better than expected.

[Kevin Halloran · Rating 5 out of 5]

This review originally ran on The Gospel Coalition.

Read the full review here.

It’s been seven years since a book on ministry from an Australian publisher took the evangelical world by storm. The success of The Trellis and the Vine: The Ministry Mind-Shift that Changes Everything (2009) surprised authors Colin Marshall (CEO of Vinegrowers ministry) and Tony Payne (CEO of of Matthias Media), who described it (with typical Aussie humility) “as an unexciting little book that consisted mostly of the blindingly obvious” (14).

As is often the case, the “blindingly obvious” is where we most need clarity, especially when it comes to a biblical vision of ministry and discipleship. As the title suggests, The Trellis and the Vine is built on a metaphor: the “vine” representing spiritual growth by Word-centered disciple-making activities (teaching, training, prayer, one-to-one Bible reading), and the “trellis” representing the structural side of ministry (administration, organization, running programs, and so on). Churches need to structure their ministry around growing people, not programs, and letting trellis work support, not overtake, vine work.

The initial success of The Trellis and the Vine sparked countless conversations and caused many to rethink their approach to ministry. It also unearthed serious struggles. Though many were gripped by the book’s compelling, biblical vision for disciple-making communities, they had trouble actually changing their church’s culture. A new sermon series or one-to-one Bible reading campaign isn’t enough to “change everything” (in the words of the subtitle).

Without a more comprehensive and strategic plan to foster the right trellis dynamics for vine growth, changing a church culture is like “trying to turn around an ocean liner with a few strokes of an oar” (30). Marshall and Payne’s newly published sequel, The Vine Project: Shaping Your Ministry Culture Around Disciple-Making, is their roadmap toward a comprehensive and strategic plan that will help slowly turn the ship toward a culture of disciple-making disciples.

Phases for Changing Culture

Changing culture begins by changing deeply held convictions that underpin culture and your activities, practices, and structures that express those beliefs (32). Naturally, phase one (“Sharpen Your Convictions”) presents a theology of the why, what, how, who, and where of making disciples (or, as the authors call it, “learning Christ”). It lays a compelling and biblical foundation to build on in the next four phases...

...

Read the full review at LeadershipResources.org.

Read 25 quotes from The Vine Project.

[Kyle · Rating 5 out of 5]

A must read for pastors who want to lead their churches towards gospel growth. This book is especially helpful if strategic planning and assessing your ministry don't come naturally.

This is really more of a workbook than a monograph, and it helpfully walks you through the steps of cultivating a discipline culture in your church. Highly recommended.

[Kristopher Schaal · Rating 5 out of 5]

The follow-up to The Trellis and the Vein, this book is a manual for applying the principles of the first book in your church. I found it extremely helpful. It was kind of like reading Trellis over again, but in a little bit different words and with much more practical application. One day, I would love to lead a Vine Team! :-)

[Matt Taylor · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book was another staple in my growing understanding of what it means to be a disciple who makes disciples. Highly recommend it!

[Chris · Rating 5 out of 5]

A helpful handbook for moving towards cultural change in the church. The Vine Project is trying to answer; “How can we shift the culture of church in the direction of disciple-making? The book must be studied as a team, not read as an individual.

Turning around a church culture is like turning around a tanker. The key to cultural change is to change beliefs as well as to change practices and structures.

Marshall focuses on five convictions. He says, disciples are made by the persevering proclamation of the word of God by the people of God in prayerful dependence on the Spirit of God. The goal of every form of Christian ministry is seeking to help each person to take ‘one step to the right’ through the four Ps.

I would recommend this book to any Christian leader.

[Eliot DeLorme · Rating 4 out of 5]

Clarifying, biblical, and practical guide to building disciple-making culture in the church. Encouraged by the way I see people at my church already living out some of these convictions.

I want to keep growing personally and corporately as people who walk in intentional love in relationships to help all in our sphere of daily life (family, co-workers, neighbors etc…) move “to the right” (toward maturity in Christ in a worshipping community) through prayerful proclamation of the word.

[Andrew Krom · Rating 5 out of 5]

Excellent book. I was grateful to read this along with "The Trellis and the Vine".

[Noah Buresh · Rating 5 out of 5]

I can see what all the hype was about

[Mr Alex Brito · Rating 5 out of 5]

Colin Marshall and Tony Payne, The Vine Project. Sydney: Matthias Media, 2016. 355 pages.
Colin Marshall has spent the pat 40 years training men and women in the ministry of the gospel, both in university and local church contexts. He oversees the Winegrowers ministry. Tony Payne has worked in Christian ministry writing and publishing books. He is currently the CEO of Matthias Media, the Director of the Centre for Christian Living at Moore College, and a member of the staff team at St Paul’s Anglican Church, Carlingford.
The authors start the book by acknowledging that both of them have not written it at their desks but a practical interaction with other pastors for more than six years. The introduction section, named “Setting the Scene”, the authors deals with two important issues “the big question” and “changing the culture”.
In the first part of the setting the scene section, “The big question”, they explain that many of those who read “The Trellis and the Vine”, love the book, but don’t know where to start or how to make progress. So, the aim of the book is to answer the question: How can we shift the whole culture of our church in the direction of disciple-making? Colin and Tony highlights that this is an unusual book since it is not a set of detailed answers or prescriptions delivered from on high to solve your problems. It’s a set of processes, tools and guidelines for you to work through with a small team of likeminded fellow workers. In simple terms, the aim of the book is that each church needs its own answer. This means that The Vine Project is not a book just to read, like all those other ministry books you buy at conferences. It’s a project. They conclude the introduction by giving us six pointers on how to make the best use of the book. First, the process they outline is not just for churches but for any ministry. Second, the book is not only for existing churches but to something brand new as well. Third, the book needs to be read initially by the leader with two purposed in mind, (1) be confident that you want to utilize the book and, (2) feel free to adapt and customise it to your context. Fourth, have the right team involved (1) with no more than 10 people and fewer than four, (2) with key leader and emerging leaders, (3) with F.A.T. (Faithful, Available and Teachable) people. Fifth, have a rough plan. Sixth, pray.
In the second part of the setting the scene section, “Changing the culture”, they then highlight the importance of changing the culture of the church not only on paper but in practice as well. They say, “You can uphold the conviction personally and in your mission statement, and you can say the words, but if the whole way you do things communicates, express and reinforces a different set of convictions, then you will make little progress.” (P.27). In simple terms, “we need to be doers of the word and not just hearers only. Where there is no repentance, there is no change.” (P.28). But what is culture? According to the authors, “By culture, just to clarify, we mean the whole way we do things around here, the complex and deep-rooted matrix of beliefs, practices, shared language, traditions and preferences that a group of people have developed over a period of time” (P.28-29). Bu how to change the culture? They says, “You can’t change the culture by working on the culture, because culture is a description of what you have become. It’s a way of summarizing the whole way you do things, the multifaceted web of tacit beliefs and practices, formal and informal, that make up who you are and how you roll… What you can work on and change are the elements that produce culture” (P.31, 32). In other words, culture is caught, not primarily taught. To illustrate that, the authors share the experience of pastors who engaged in this culture-change process. They then conclude it with a brief description of the five phases of culture-changing.
In Phase 1, Sharpen your convictions, the authors gives us a short introduction of what to expect from this chapter. They basically point that culture changing will “…involve both convictions (or theology) that you hold and prayerfully teach, and the structures, habits, practices, programs and relationships that express and support those convictions.” (P.43). They also point that the lack of shared clarity on core convictions and alignment between convictions and practice are the two main problems many churches face. So, Colin and Tony helps us to understand what the five convictions are. They are built around five key questions related to ‘discipleship’ and ‘disciple-making’.
Conviction 1: Why make disciples? The authors help us to understand the importance and urgency of making disciples by saying that God has a plan for us and our world. They look at different Bible passages of the New Testament to help us to see that God is gathering into his kingdom people from every nation. However, “The gathering of all nations around the throne of God in Revelation is not so much a celebration of cultural diversity as a celebration of how God has overcome the one foundational problem that all the nations share, that ‘all have sinned…” (P.53) In simple terms, “God’s plan is a rescue mission for people trapped in an awful and inescapable darkness.” (P54), this is why we need to make disciples. They also says that, “We so easily settle into a comfortable week-by-week church existence, where we are happy to be together and to help each other grow as disciples of Christ, and (to be frank) are reasonably content with the world around us continuing on its way to hell in a dark basket.” (P.55). They conclude by saying that we want to make more disciples of Jesus “because God’s goal for the whole world and the whole of human history is to glorify his beloved Son in the midst of the people he has rescued and transformed.” (P.58).
Conviction 2: What is a disciple? Colin and Tony says that the words “discipleship” or “disciple-making” have different meanings to different people. Some people see discipleship as something personal, relational and intimate kind of thing while others in a more public and programmatic way. So, they say that “a vital step in clarifying our convictions about discipleship and disciple-making is to clarify what we mean by these important terms.” (P.63). The word translated ‘disciple’ in the New Testament (the Greek word mathetes) basically refers to a learner or student. In simple terms, a disciple is a learner; discipleship is ‘learnship’. To be a disciple is to be a learner who stand in relation to a teacher whose teaching and way of life he or she seek to learn and adopt. So, the author explain that the goal of discipleship is that a disciple not only learn what his or her teacher knows, but also seek to be like his or her teacher, to walk in his way. According to Tony and Collin, “Following Jesus in the Gospel is very much like repentance. It is abandoning my current existence and heading off in a new direction, to learn a whole new life from a new Master, and to be part of the new kingdom that he will bring.” They say that perhaps that is the reason why baptism is an important symbol for initiation into being a learner and the “yoke” another important symbol as it is a metaphor for service and submission and obedience, for accepting the authority of another. They then summarise what a disciple is as “someone engaged in transformative learning.” (P.69). The authors highlight something interesting in regard to the word ‘disciple’. They say that the final mention of the word is mention in Acts 21:16, but Christians as ‘learners’ didn’t disappear from the rest of the New Testament. Christians were still learning. They were still forgiven sinners who was learning Christ in repentance and faith.
Conviction 3: How are disciples made? In this chapter, the authors highlight that they have nothing new to explain in the regard of making disciples. They say, “The means we will be highlighting are those that God has given from the very beginning, but which for various reasons we often neglect or misunderstand or misuse.” They point key Bible passages in order to help us to see that the proclamation of God’s word is the mean by which disciples are made through the power of God. They say, “…disciples are made by the persevering proclamation of the word of God by the people of God in prayerful dependence on the Spirit of God” (P.83). The problem is that we may lose sight and get distracted by false or half-true alternatives. So, they highlight the importance of a sharp understanding of the core principles about how to make disciples are made. They point four key components. First, Proclaim the word of God centred on Jesus, to non-Christians and Christians disciples, by expounding the Bible through different ways and modes. Second, Prayerful dependence on the Spirit of God meaning that we must rely on the work of the Holy Spirit. Third, People are God’s fellow worker meaning that although is the one who Saves, but He saves through the work of Christians. Fourth, Persevering, step by step meaning that although salvation is completed in a moment, this is only the first step of many other steps towards Christlikeness. They conclude this chapter by saying, “Mobilizing our efforts to train and equip as many of our members for this sort of ministry is a key step in creating a new culture of Christ-learning in our midst.” (P.99)
Conviction 4: Who makes disciples? Tony and Colin help us to understand who the ones are involved in the process of making disciples and how we are to understand their different roles and gifts. They pointed a few key elements and questions discussed with pastors around the world. Firstly, most pastors agree with the idea that disciple-making is for all disciples and not only for the eleven apostles. Secondly, a vast number of churches see their members getting involved mostly with administrative or practical help, instead of actually making disciples. Thirdly, many pastors want to learn how motivate and equip their congregations to help others to learn Christ. Fourthly, pastors want to understand how to put that into practice taking into account the diversity of gifts and the capability of each disciple. So, in this chapter the authors aim to look at four important question. One, what the Bible says about all Christians speaking the word. They say that, “…a healthy church culture is one in which a wide variety of word ministries are exercised by a constantly growing proportion of the membership.” (P.110). Two, what does it look like in practice? They point six things to explain democratized proclamation looks like in practice. First, they say, “It’s very important that the word we all speak is the one, true word of Christ, and that we do so in a manner that builds others up.” (P.111). Second, the ways to proclaim the word of God are limitless. Third, different people have different skills on how to proclaim the word of God to others. Fourth, they say that “The motivation is the same, the source is the same, the means are the same, and the end goal is the same. What varies is the particular manner and occasion in which we speak or exemplify the word of God.” (P.112). Fifth, there may be more members proclaiming the word of God than we think taking into account the examples above. The authors then highlight that there is a personal reluctance or embarrassment to speak, and feelings of inadequacy and lack of confidence in knowing where to start. They address both things, the lack of confidence and motivation needed to proclaim God’s word. They also highlight the importance of expositional preaching as a mean to equip the saint so that they can proclaim God’s word. They conclude by answering the question made in this chapter by saying, “By their preaching, training and example, pastors equip every Christian to be a Christ-learner who helps others to learn Christ.” (P.119).
Conviction 5: Where to make disciples? In this chapter Tony and Colin deal with the field where disciples are recruited and taught. They start by highlighting that many churches have only two locations in mind, a private location or an oversea location, to make disciples. The private location is the idea that disciples are made when we spend time with new believers to ground them in the basics of the faith. The oversea location is the idea that disciples of all nations are made in a different nation. Although these two ideas are not wrong, the authors aim to help us to understand that there are more to be thought in regard to this question of where we make disciples. They say, “…discipling can and should happen in any and every sphere of our lives…it happens when we preach the gospel… when we meet with one or two people… when we gather in a small group to read and study the Bible… when we gather in a larger group to hear the word of God…” (P.122-123). They have no doubt different readers will have different ecclesiologies and traditions, but we all should agree, “the church, in all aspects of its life, is a community for transformative learning in Christ… If this is true, then our Sunday gathering should be the prime, central, flagship occasion in which ‘learning Christ’ takes place.” (P.125). The authors also highlight that the nations, mentioned by Jesus, are not only the overseas countries. So, “The where of making disciples of Christ must therefore be not only within the community of his people, but in every corner of the darkness in which people are trapped in rebellion against the risen Lord Christ, every street, every neighbourhood, every community, every people group, every subculture, every nation.” (P.130). They finish this chapter by talking about the ghetto mentality which means the struggle to look out beyond our doors as churches. This is nothing new taking into account that the apostles and other early disciples also struggled with this universal mission to make disciple of all nations. However, we need to keep in mind that our church culture must be challenged. So, where does learning Christ take place? “It happens in every facet and activity of the transformative learning communities we call churches; and through our churches, it also happens in every corner of this present darkness.” (P.133)
The authors summarises Phase 1 by reminding us the big idea of each conviction pointed before. First, they say that the reasons why we make disciples is because God’s goal for the whole world and the whole of human history is to glorify his beloved Son in the midst of the people he has rescued and transformed. Second, they say that a disciple is a forgiven sinner who is learning Christ in repentance and faith. Third, they then explain that we make disciples through the persevering proclamation of the word of God by the people of God in prayerful dependence on the Spirit of God, otherwise known as the four Ps. Forth, the authors also remind us that disciples are made by their preaching, training and example, pastors equip every Christian to be a Christ-learner who helps others to learn Christ. Fifth, they conclude the reminders by saying that we make disciples in every facet and activity of the transformative learning communities we call churches; and through our churches, it also happens in every corner of this present darkness.
In Phase 2, Reform Your Personal Culture, the authors highlight the importance of having convictions that are reflect through our lives. In other words, “To learn Christ is to learn not just concepts and content, but a way of being and living in the world. It is never less than concepts and content, but it is necessary more. The goal for learners (or disciples) is not just to know and remember the commandments of Christ, but to keep or obey the commandments of Christ, to live for Christ and to seek to be like Christ in every word and deed.” (P.156). In simple terms, we need to have good doctrines, but good character and lifestyle as well. So, Tony and Colin draw our attention to two things. First, we need to move to the right ourselves. They say, “How should mature Christian believers approach their own growth in Christ? Perhaps counter-intuitively, we need to answer, ‘with urgency’…” (P.161). In other words, the more mature we get, the more urgently we see the need to become more like Christ. They suggest that is through the word of God that we can this transformation will start to take place. However, this needs to be taken as a meal to your soul instead of a snack. They also suggest that we need to pray. “There is no transformation without prayer. Prayer comes before transformation, as we beg for God to change us by his Spirit; and prayer follows transformations, as we verbalize and express our growing trust in Christ.” (P.165). Second, we need to move others to the right as well. They briefly help us to think about four different spheres of relationship in which most of us find ourselves in. One, our households, a context where we can help our spouses and children to move to the right trough the word and prayer. Two, the world, a context in which you can help people from our workplace, school our kids go to, our neighbours, friends to move to the right. Three, small group ministries, a context in which you can start studying the one-to-one for a period of time with someone from the group. Four, church on Sunday, a context in which you help people you meet weekly to move to the right. They conclude this chapter by highlighting that we should not rush too quickly to Phase 3, instead, “by seeking to bring change to our own lives, we will come to the church culture-change process not as armchair experts, but as active participants who have confronted all the difficulties and challenges personally.” (P.168).
In phase 3, titled: Loving, Honest Evaluation, Colin and Tony highlight the importance of being frustrated with our churches in the sense that a local church is made up of imperfect and sinful people who need to become more like Christ. They say, “This sense of godly dissatisfaction is a good place to start as we come to a vital stage in the Vine Project, the phase where, as we Australians like to put it, we go into the room of mirrors and take a good look at ourselves.” (P.176) They help us to understand that this evaluation helps us to build a sense of urgency that things need to change. This phase is challenging and often confronting, especially because the existing culture and structures and general busyness of the church can distract us from our goal, to change the culture. However, although it is a difficult phase, Christians must embrace honest constructive re-evaluation since we know the effects of sins in our lives. If, in phase 1 we took time to reflect about our convictions about ‘learning’ and making learners and in phase 2 we understood that these convictions must be lived by us, in phase 3, the authors show us how to bring these convictions to bear fruit. The authors say that the idea in this phase is not to generate new ideas but to discover, understand and clarify where you are. Seven exercises are suggested by Colin and Tony in order to help us with this evaluation. In Evaluation Exercise 1: Getting your hearts ready for evaluation, the aim is to help us to search our hearts. In Evaluation Exercise 2: Where are your people up to in learning Christ? The goal is to find out where each person of your congregation is by using the four broad stages (engage, evangelize, establish, equip). They end the book with an epilogue. They say, “The task is simple enough to describe, but of course impossible to do – save for the transforming power of God, who shines his glorious light in the hearts of those to whom we proclaim the gospel of his Son.” (P.338).

[Tyler Gordon]

The Vine Project picks up where The Trellis and the Vine left off. It answers the question, "Now what?" and provides guidance for pastors and church leaders who desire to create a culture of discipleship in their church, but don't know where to start. The Vine Project is a step-by-step manual packed with concepts and questions designed to stimulate reflection on the current culture of your church, what the culture of the should should be, and ideas for how to move in the right direction.

The Five Convictions that form the foundation of the book are:
1.) Why make disciples?
2.) What is a disciple?
3.) How are disciples made?
4.) Who makes disciples?
5.) Where to make disciples?

Five phases are proposed for changing the church culture:
1.) Sharpen Your Convictions
2.) Reform Your Personal Culture
3.) Loving, Honest Evaluation
4.) Innovate and Implement
5.) Maintain Momentum

The overarching goal of all ministry is to help those around you take a step to the right through the 4 P's.

Engage-Evangelize-Establish-Equip.

[Bryan Kuranaga · Rating 5 out of 5]

Introduction to the Book:
The Vine Project: Shaping Your Ministry Culture Around Disciple-Making by Tony Payne and Colin Marshall is a book about “making disciples” in the context of a local church and is a follow up to the authors’ previous book, The Trellis and the Vine: The Ministry Mind-Shift That Changes Everything. This work serves more as a workbook than a how-to-manual and is both scholarly and practical, bridging the gap between the vocational pastor and the lay person involved in organized ministry. In their own words, the authors intentionally deemed their book as a project, stating: “It’s a set of processes, tools and guidelines for you to work through with a small team of like-minded fellow workers—starting from wherever you happen to be, with whatever strengths and weaknesses you happen to have” (Kindle Loc 134). The Vine Project, then, is a roadmap for ministry workers who desire to create a culture of disciple-making in their specific context and are willing to work toward establishing this culture over the course of several years.

General Argument of the Book:
In order to accomplish their goal of describing how a church can create a culture of disciple making, the authors structure their book around five phases, each serving as a guide for growth and change, building upon each previous phase. Each of these phases contain biblical content, case studies, discussion questions, practical suggestions, and testimonies from various ministries leaders around the world. This five-phase process is meant to be implemented over the course of time and bring about a slow transformation of the church culture.

Phase 1: Sharpen Your Convictions
This particular phase is foundational in that its focus is on the purpose behind disciple-making and how it is to be accomplished. In the authors’ words, this phase is meant to “Dig into the Bible and its theology to clarify what you believe about disciple-making and ministry” (Kindle Loc 411). They argue that discipleship happens when the five convictions are understood and answered biblically and theologically: (1) Why make disciples?; (2) What is a disciple?; (3) How are disciples made?; (4) Who makes disciples?; (5) Where are we to make disciples? From here, the authors stress the need for every member to be engaged in the discipling task. Disciples are made when members participate in the 4 P’s of Ministry: (1) Proclamation of the Word of God; (2) Prayerful dependence on the Spirit of God; (3) People are God’s fellow workers; (4) Persevering, step by step. As people engage in this type of ministry, they are becoming more like Christ (the authors call this the Four E’s: Engage, Evangelize, Establish, Equip).

Phase 2: Reform Your Personal Culture
After laying the foundation, the authors encourage their readers to reflect on their own personal lives and how they can express the convictions from the previous phase: “Make sure that your convictions have penetrated the culture of your own life; that you are demonstrating your convictions by how you live and minister to others” (Kindle Loc 411). The real change in a church’s culture always starts with the person seeking to bring about change. In other words, the reader who seeks to bring about change must embody what he or she wants others to become.

Phase 3: Loving, honest evaluation
The next step is for the church leader to evaluate every aspect of their current ministry culture: “Undertake a clear-eyed thoughtful examination of everything that happens in your church to see how well (or poorly) it accords with your convictions: in what areas does your culture best reflect your convictions, where is it weakest, and where is the greatest potential for growth and change?” (Kindle Loc 411). It is here where readers are urged to look for strengths and weaknesses and are given a guide of seven exercise evaluations to work through in assessing their ministry.

Phase 4: Innovate and Implement
After evaluating his church, the ministry leader is to think through how he can address the weaknesses he sees: “Work out what you want to stop doing, start doing, and keep doing; plan new pathways for disciple-making and work out how to implement these over time” (Kindle Loc 411). Readers are challenged in this phase to begin the process of change and are given a plan that focuses on four areas: (1) Sunday gatherings; (2) Pathways for discipleship growth (the 4 E’s in conjunction with the 4 P’s of Ministry); (3) Plans for growth; (4) Communication.

Phase 5: Maintain Momentum
In this final phase, the authors suggest ways that their readers can maintain momentum and how to continue in the process of changing their church culture: “Monitor and review how the project is unfolding; look at obstacles and work out how to overcome them; build momentum and keep it rolling” (Kindle Loc 411). This particular phase is focused on teaching practical skills to keep the momentum while helping the reader to understand and come to terms with the fact that this is meant to be a long term project.
The fifth and final phase closes with a quote that sums up the mindset ministry leaders are to have when engaging in this project: “Acknowledge that change for the sake of the mission makes things harder, not easier—and that is okay; it is what God uses to do his work….change creates a mess. It shows we are walking the pattern of Scripture” (Kindle Loc 4886). Part of creating culture is embracing the mess that comes with it and then sticking with the people in that mess, knowing that change will eventually occur if we are faithful to God with those whom He has entrusted us with.

Strengths and Weaknesses of the Book:
As with any piece of literature, there will be strengths and weaknesses to it. The author’s intent will always be that the strengths outweigh the weaknesses or that there are several strengths and only a few weaknesses (if it can be called that). This book accomplishes the latter.

Strengths
The book is easy to follow and provides action steps for its readers. Payne and Marshall seek to saturate their action steps in Scripture and incorporate all believers as a part of the disciple-making process. In doing this, the authors stress the need for the “priesthood of all believers” and for them to have the word of God dwell in them richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom (Col. 3:16). The greatest strength of this book is actually found in its first two phases. In Phase 1 (“Sharpen Your Convictions”), the authors articulate clearly the convictions laid out in their former book, The Trellis and the Vine. Readers who are aware that The Vine Project is the sequel to The Trellis and the Vine will not need to go back and read the prequel because the sequel already sums up (and elaborates on) what is communicated in it. I write this as someone who has read and benefited from The Trellis and the Vine. In Phase 2 (“Reform Your Personal Culture”), the authors do a wonderful job of taking the foundational convictions laid out in Phase 1 and forcing the readers to come to terms with where they are in their own lives. Implicit in this whole chapter is the charge to ministry leaders to: (1) Lead yourself well so you can lead others better; (2) Embody what you want others to become; (3) You can only impart to others what you possess yourself.

Weaknesses
The only “weaknesses” of this book are not actual weaknesses but preferences instead. Firstly, the authors deemed this undertaking as a “project” and make it clear that they are not offering a “quick fix” to a church’s current culture. Ministry leaders will need to re-read and re-visit, time and again, this book in order to implement its strategies. Creating a culture takes time and ministry leaders who are not in it for the long haul will see this aspect of the book as a glaring weakness. Secondly, individuals who are looking for specific strategies on how to implement these principles to their church polity will be disappointed. Though the authors definitely have their own convictions on ecclesiology, they chose to write this book in such a way that does not highlight or detract any one particular type of church government. Readers who lack the wisdom and maturity to know how to apply such principles from the book will deem this as a weakness.

Conclusion:
I greatly appreciated this work put forth by the authors and can see myself revisiting this book in the near future. I believe that their inclusion of the word “project” will pay dividends and will actually help current and future ministry leaders to think differently about their positions and roles within the church. Disciple-making is meant to be a long and ongoing process and creating such a culture of disciple-makers is no different. Payne and Marshall have offered the church an invaluable work with this book.

[Hopson · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book is hands-down the best book I've read on practically directing the church towards a culture of disciple-making. After outlining a philosophy of ministry in their bestselling work "The Trellis and the Vine," Colin Marshall and Tony Payne unfold a master plan for implementation in this follow-up work.

For Tim Challies' 2016 Reading Challenge this is the book I read that was written by an Anglican.

[Chris Wray · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is an excellent and timely follow-up to The Trellis and the Vine that seeks to help church leaders implement the vision outlined in the earlier book. The main question that The Vine Project is aiming to answer is: How can you shift the whole culture of your church in the direction of disciple-making?

The author’s answer, in short, is that disciple-making is really about calling people to faith and hope in Jesus Christ amid this present evil age, with all its pressures. To become a church more focused on disciple-making is to become a fellowship that understands more clearly why life is often hard, and what resources God has given us to grow in faith and hope and love amid the struggle.

An important consideration in this is how you change the culture of your church, as what you routinely do communicates, reinforces and shapes who you are, often far more than what you teach. The culture of a church can be a heavy and powerful drag against any attempt for meaningful change, and will also usually shape what people do in any given circumstance, often more so than their stated beliefs. All this means that there's little point teaching some new convictions or initiating some new kinds of vine work unless you're also prepared to reform and optimise the trellis that supports it and gives it structure and shape. Both must be done as part of a total package.

Culture can't be changed directly, but what you can work on and change are the elements that produce culture: the deeply held beliefs and convictions that drive and underpin the culture (not all of them always openly expressed) and the activities, practices and structures that express and embed those beliefs at every level of church life. You can work to bring change to the way people think, and to how those convictions are practised in behaviour, structures and habits - and over time, can look back and see that you've generated a new 'culture'. This can be achieved over 5 phases:

Phase 1: Sharpen your convictions - dig into the Bible and its theology to clarify what you believe about disciple-making and ministry.
Phase 2: Reform your personal culture - make sure that your convictions have penetrated the culture of your own life; that you are demonstrating your convictions by how you live and minister to others.
Phase 3: Loving, honest evaluation - undertake a clear-eyed thoughtful examination of everything that happens in your church to see how well (or poorly) it accords with your convictions: in what areas does your culture best reflect your convictions, where is it weakest, and where is the greatest potential for growth and change?
Phase 4: Innovate and implement - work out what you want to stop doing, start doing, and keep doing; plan new pathways for disciple-making and work out how to implement these over time.
Phase 5: Maintain momentum - monitor and review how the project is unfolding; look at obstacles and work out how to overcome them; build momentum and keep it rolling.

Phase 1: Sharpen your convictions.

The five convictions are built around five key questions related to 'discipleship' and 'disciple-making'. By answering each of these questions biblically and theologically, you should be able to construct a coherent vision of what disciple-making is, and what it means for your church.

Conviction 1: Why make disciples? The reason we want to make more and more disciples of Jesus Christ is this: because God's goal for the whole world and the whole of human history is to glorify his beloved Son amid the people he has rescued and transformed. Making disciples is not primarily a human activity.

Conviction 2: What is a disciple? A forgiven sinner who is learning Christ in repentance and faith. This kind of 'transformational learning' is another way of describing the totality of the Christian life. To become a 'Christ-learner' is both a decisive and gigantic step of repentance in accepting the salvation that God has won for us through Christ (symbolized by baptism), and an ongoing daily commitment to living out the implications and consequences of this massive salvation that God has won for us (symbolized by the yoke). The goal is not for us to simply master a body of knowledge but to learn a whole new way of life.

Conviction 3: How are disciples made? How does this rescue and redemption happen? The making of disciples is God's work, achieved as his word and Spirit work through the activity of Christian disciples and in the hearts of those they speak to. That activity can be summarised as the persevering proclamation of the word of God by the people of God in prayerful dependence on the Spirit of God, otherwise known as the four Ps:
1. Proclamation of the word (the plan and promise of God, centred on Jesus Christ) in multiple ways.
2. Prayerful dependence on the Spirit.
3. People are God's fellow workers.
4. Perseverance, step by step. The Christian life happens in one enormous, momentous step from death to life; it also takes place step by step, as we learn to observe all of Christ's commandments, as the suffering we endure for Christ produces in us endurance, character and hope.

The goal of every form of Christian ministry can therefore be summarised as seeking to help each person, wherever they happen to be, to take one step forward through these four Ps.
The steps that most people travel through as they move forward can be summarised as 4 Es: Engage, Evangelise, Establish and Equip. Christ-learners are 'made' patiently and perseveringly over time, and this has important implications for the methodology by which people become Christ-learners and grow as Christ-learners. It's inevitably and enduringly personal, meeting each learner where they are, and seeking to move them forward. This can and must be done by all Christians, in simple, everyday ways as we pray for others and seek by word and example to encourage them to take small steps forward either towards faith or to grow in it.

Conviction 4: Who makes disciples? By their preaching, training and example, pastors equip every Christian to be a Christ-learner who helps others to learn Christ. This conviction digs deeper into the idea that it is the joy and privilege of all God's people to be involved in the four Ps, and this is an expected and necessary component of the normal Christian life.

An expository pulpit is the foundational word ministry that feeds and regulates and equips and builds an 'expository church', in which the word of the Bible is being ministered at multiple levels in a rich variety of ways by the congregation.
The two biggest barriers to this are simply a personal reluctance or embarrassment to speak, and feelings of inadequacy and lack of confidence in knowing where to start. In addressing motivation, the problem is that we don't value the word enough, and we don't love people enough. It's a heart problem - our hearts are not sufficiently fired by the wonder of God’s mercies and the majesty of Jesus Christ, and our hearts are not sufficiently full of love and compassion for those around us. In addressing a lack of confidence, we need to keep teaching and exemplifying the fact that 'speaking the word of God' happens in a multitude of forms and contexts, and that each of us will have particular strengths and opportunities for doing so.

Conviction 5: Where to make disciples. Making disciples happens in every facet and activity of the transformative learning communities we call churches, and through our churches, it also happens in every corner of this present darkness.
Making and growing 'Christ-learners' is the basic activity that should be at the centre of everything we do as a church - that is, as a transformational learning community - including and especially our Sunday gatherings. Our Sunday gathering should be the prime, central, flagship occasion in which 'learning Christ' takes place, and from which all the other learning in the community draws its direction and impetus. The where of making more learners of Christ is all around us - in our families and streets and communities, in every corner of this present darkness in which people are so desperately in need of the saving gospel of Christ.

Phase 2: Reform your personal culture.

This is important for two reasons:
The first flows out of the nature of the convictions outlined above, as learning Christ is to learn not just concepts and content, but a way of being and living in the world. The goal for learners (i.e. disciples) is not just to know and remember the commandments of Christ, but to keep or obey the commandments of Christ, to live for Christ and to seek to be like Christ in every word and deed.
The second is that we must live these convictions if we are to teach them to others. We cannot make 'learners' of Christ unless we show by our lives what learning Christ means, modelling this for others (in our household, the world, small groups, Sunday church) so that they can imitate us.

Phase 3: Loving, honest evaluation.

Rejoicing at church doesn't exclude a godly dissatisfaction with church, any more than our thankfulness to God for forgiveness excludes dissatisfaction with the sin that remains in our lives.

We will need to talk about people and how they can move forward. We will also need to evaluate all the different ministry activities that take place from week to week, the various 'trellises' that we have in place that are meant to facilitate and optimise the ‘vine work’ of moving each person forward through the word and prayer.

Evaluation Exercise 1: Getting your heart ready for evaluation
Evaluation Exercise 2: Where are your people up to in learning Christ?
Evaluation Exercise 3: How effective are your regular programs and activities in moving people forward?
Evaluation Exercise 4: How effective are your Sunday gatherings in moving Christ-learners forward?
Evaluation Exercise 5: What happened with your newcomers?
Evaluation Exercise 6: The numbers
Evaluation Exercise 7: Roadblocks

Phase 4: Innovate and Implement

Next, we will need to generate and implement significant plans in at least four key areas:
Your main gathering (in most churches, this will be the Sunday church gathering) - so that it better functions as a 'flagship' for the culture you want to create.
The rest of your church life (all your programs, ministries, groups and activities, including the home life of each member) - so that they provide clear and effective pathways for ‘moving people to the right’.
Your long-term plans for growth - so that you’re anticipating and preparing for the growth that (God-willing) your plans will produce.
Your communication and common language - so that a new way of thinking and talking about disciple-making and ministry becomes normal in your fellowship.

Focus Area 1: Make Sunday a flagship
There are two reasons for this:
The first is that our main church services or meetings are prime occasions for learning Christ.
The second reason we have to think carefully about Sunday is that it sets the tone and direction for everything we do as a church community.

1. Engaging unbelievers on Sunday: Is the word of Christ prayerfully proclaimed in church on Sunday in a way that is accessible and understandable for both believers and unbelievers?
2. Evangelising on Sunday:
a. Preaching with an evangelistic mindset
b. Telling stories that show the gospel at work
c. The personal witness of congregation members
d. The shape of what you do, i.e. liturgy
3. Establishing on Sunday
a. Preaching for transformative learning: Transformative preaching digs into the word, unfolds and explains its message clearly and compellingly, and applies the gospel challenge of each passage to the hearts and minds and lives of the hearers.
b. Active prayerful listening: listening is a spiritual activity and should be repentant and open-hearted, thoughtful and discerning, prayerful and humble, and should engage with the speaker.
c. Mutual teaching and encouragement: both during and after the service.
d. Responsive repentant prayer
e. Singing that teaches
f. Declaring historic creeds and confessions
4. Equipping on Sunday
5. Equipping for Sunday

Focus Area 2: Design pathways that move forward

Doing 4P ministry in each of the 4 stages as people move forward.

Pathway stage 1: Engaging
a. Personal relationship
b. Teams and groups - including home/community groups.
c. Specialised ministries, groups, or events

Pathway stage 2: Evangelizing
a. Personally and in small groups
b. Evangelistic programs or courses
c. Church
d. One-off events or missions

Pathway stage 3: Establishing
a. Establishing new believers
b. Establishing newcomers in the church
c. Establishing growing believers

Pathway stage 4: Equipping
a. Level 1: The penny dropping: grasping that Christ's purpose for us is to seek with all our hearts to move others around is forward in whatever way we can.
b. Level 2: Learning some basic skills
c. Level 3: Learning some specialist skills
d. Getting started with equipping
e. Equipping leads to exporting

Focus Area 3: Plan for growth

Iterative tactical and strategic planning and review should be carried out to facilitate 4P ministry.

Focus Area 4: Create a new language
Four questions need to be answered:
1. What sort of church does God want us to be (vision)?
2. Under God, how are we going to get to that future?
3. What are our specific goals for growth in the next (say) five years?
4. What are our specific priorities or plans for reaching those goals?

Phase 5: Maintain Momentum

The truly challenging stage in driving any deep culture change is executing your plans - persistently, flexibly and effectively over the considerable time that will be required for any real change to take place.

1. Understanding the obstacles.
The kind of change we’re talking about is not just an organisational realignment or a new strategic approach - it’s a repentance towards Christlikeness. The fundamental reason that church cultures are not more aligned with the convictions clarified in Phase 1 is not historical or circumstantial - it is spiritual.

2. The pressure on pastors.
We don't need a new model of pastoral ministry so much as a return to the New Testament vision of pastoral ministry - for that was a ministry conducted in the furnace of a largely hostile, pagan culture. The role of the pastor is largely to be a model Christian. It is to serve as an exemplar, leader, mobilizer, teacher, guardian and guide for the whole congregation, as they together seek to move each other and everyone around them forward.

3. The pressure on our people.
Learning Christ means learning to trust in him and put our hope in him amid all the complications, troubles and pressures of life, and helping others to do the same.

4. Leadership, staffing and governance.
Three related questions:
1. Who should be on the team that leads the growth of 4P ministry in our congregation?
A leadership team made up of a combination of ordained pastors, elders and other lay leaders, whose role is to reshape and lead the whole culture of your congregation.
2. What full-time and part-time paid staffing is required to support and lead the growth of the ministry?
3. How does all this relate to the official governance structures of our congregational life?

5. Practical skills in maintaining momentum
a. Make the right sort of plans.
b. Review, learn, adapt.
c. Identify gaps in practical skills.

This is a comprehensive and thoroughly stimulating book that fleshes out the principles established in the Trellis and the Vine in tangible and definite ways. It won't appeal to everyone, as you could see this methodology as too prescriptive and businesslike, but I found it immensely helpful and will be continuing these conversations in our church. Highly recommended.

[Scquest · Rating 5 out of 5]

Point: Making and maturing disciples is not something that a church does, it is something a disciple does. Here is a workbook on how to pursue disciple making in all of church life.

Path: The authors lay out five phases to work through, making sure that everyone understands that this is not as much of a how-to-manual, but rather a workbook. They lay a biblical foundation, explain logical truths, and give practical examples. This isn’t a book to just read, but to work through with others.

Sources: Based on their previous book and the interactions they have had since then, the authors do a great job at walking the reader through both biblical truth and everyday experience.

Agreement: Top shelf book. I am so thankful how they presented these truths not as a “five steps to your best church now” but “take time to think through these principles with others and you will change”.

Personal App: Am I seeing every relationship as an opportunity to encourage the other individual to take one step toward Christ?

Favorite Quote: Engaging unbelievers on Sunday is ”like taking in a guest at your house for Christmas dinner. This often happens in our part of the world. If there’s someone at church who doesn’t have any family to share Christmas with, then you invite them to join your family for Christmas lunch. Now in doing so, you don’t change who you are or what your family does in any significant way at all. But you make very sure that your guest is looked after. You warmly welcome them, and introduce them around. You explain what is going on at different points— why Uncle Fred always has to sit in that chair, what the background is to your funny family games or rituals, how to play, and so on. You put yourself out to make your guest feel at home and part of the family, even though it’s not their home or their family. Likewise in church— outsiders are not part of our church family. We don’t stop being who we are, or pursuing God’s purposes, just because we have guests present. But we do welcome our guests, who, like the ‘outsiders’ in 1 Corinthians 14, turn up and (God-willing) come to know and worship the living God in our midst.” (Kindle loc. 2967).

It would be worth another read and I would recommend it to someone who:
is planting a church
is leading a church
is serving in a church

Other books along this theme would be:
Anyabwile, Thabiti M. What Is a Healthy Church Member? 9Marks. Wheaton: Crossway, 2008.
Dever, Mark. Nine Marks of a Healthy Church. Expanded. Wheaton, Illinois: Crossway Books, 2004.
Marshall, Colin, Tony Payne, and Matthias Media. The Trellis and the Vine : The Ministry Mind-Shift That Changes Everything. Kingsford, N.S.W.: Matthias Media, 2009.
Rainer, Thom S., and Eric Geiger. Simple Church. B&H Publishing Group, 2010.

[Jon Pentecost · Rating 3 out of 5]

The Vine Project is a sort of sequel to The Trellis and the Vine, by the same authors.

T&V set out to argue that many churches that are busy and active are not necessarily being fruitful. They addressed the ways in which leaders can often get pulled into maintaining structures and neglect to ask the question of whether those structures are accomplishing the spiritual good intended, or if it is worth the time and energy it takes from other ministry.

The Vine Project sets out to provide more practical guidance on how to evaluate the culture and structures of your church, and then work towards changing them in order to more faithfully encourage and foster good spiritual growth ('movement to the right' or 'learning Jesus'as the authors say). The first parts of the book are helpful in providing diagnostic questions, and explaining why churches should desire spiritual growth over simply business. The book also helpfully establishes the importance of Word-ministry in the church, and the centrality of the main corporate gathering.

However, where they attempt to provide practical guidance in implementing those changes, they seem to fall into the trap of using programs to help a church get out of its programmatic mentality. Part of this is simply the difficulty of providing clear practical steps--the simple stuff is simple. The programs take longer to explain, and thus get more 'air-time' in the book.

So useful, but not worth a deep dive in my opinion, unless in a situation where you are wanting to walk leaders in your church through why changing practices in the church might be a good thing.

[Brian Parks · Rating 3 out of 5]

This is the followup book to the authors' book titled "The Trellis and the Vine". The authors are to be commended for a good and simple explanation about what all churches should be working towards... moving Christ learners toward Christ in maturity and equipping them to help others become Christ-learners and move toward him. Basically discipleship which would include evangelism. I was disappointed though that when it came to the part of the book where they describe how to achieve this and bring about change in your church it became very program oriented. A biblical idea of all that membership in the local church entails would be much more foundational and revolutionary for individuals than the programs they describe. I enjoyed the short chapter toward the end where they identified obstacles and teach that all resistance to healthy change in the church is the result of sin. They also correctly identify the potential pitfalls of small groups in the appendix.

[Wayne · Rating 5 out of 5]

I really enjoyed this book. It stimulated my thinking, sharpened and strengthened convictions, and encouraged me to get to work. I appreciate how it began with addressing the guiding principles or convictions for leadership but then provided a clear—yet adaptable—map for implementation. It appears really well thought out. They’ve clearly incorporated a lot of feedback from church leaders who have read their first book, “The Trellis and the Vine”.

Other books that would be worth reading along with this one (several mentioned numerous times in their footnotes): The Trellis and the Vine, Discipling (Dever), Wisdom in Leadership (Hamilton), Growth Groups (Marshall), and Leading Change (Kotter).

[Eleasa · Rating 3 out of 5]

One of my textbooks for CCEF/Westminster's "Counselling in the Local Church" book, which is contextually very helpful when thinking through the lens of structures of pastoral care in my personal local church, and to consider what is my role in this.
(I have read "The Trellis and the Vine" as part of a Vinemakers workshop when part of a church plant, but that is not required reading prior to reading this. There is an appendix that addresses the metaphor of the trellis & the vine in terms of ministry.)

Definitely the best reading use of this book is to be read as part of a team of ministry leaders to be discussed & applied 'on the ground' in your local church in an intentional, kingdom-oriented manner. Hence, my 3 star rating.

[Mark Donald · Rating 3 out of 5]

This work is a practical follow up to the excellent work - The Trellis and the Vine.

The authors seek to help churches think and work through 1) their convictions about discipleship, 2) evaluating their current efforts/practices, and 3) work towards greater biblical faithfulness as a discipling community.

Lots of helpful stuff in the book. Particularly in considering the convictions about discipleship sections. Some useful practical advice, some I'd skip. Negatives: not the best examples (particularly in those they interviewed), and they suggest mostly (almost entirely) programmatic practical advice.

[Elisha Lawrence · Rating 4 out of 5]

Love it's partner book "Trellis & the Vine"- this is a practical outworking of how to change a church culture to focus on evangelism and discipleship. Very practical book and appreciate the honesty about difficulties of ministry, idolatry in ministry. Good for helping churches break out of typical way of doing church and helpful thinking about balancing caring for those in your church and sharing the gospel with those outside of it.

[Joseph Bouchoc · Rating 4 out of 5]

I really enjoyed this book and would place it as one of my top options for ministry philosophy. It begins theological by helping leaders determine their convictions about ministry from Scripture an then outlines a very practical pathway for working the convictions out in the life of the church. I especially agreed with and appreciated the encouragement to make the Sunday service the flagship ministry of the church.

[Graham Heslop · Rating 4 out of 5]

Let me start this review with a comment that will seem a little disingenuous alongside my rating: don't read this book unless you are going to do a 'vine project.' Marshall and Payne's book is far too long and somewhat repetitious but the evaluations, discussion sections, exercises, and actions are extremely valuable when done as part of reading the book

[Phillip Howell · Rating 4 out of 5]

This can be read as a book but it's more of a workbook for church leaders to help them develop a plan for discipleship culture. It's a great workbook. It's a solid book if you read it by yourself but it's meant to be applied with a group. I strongly commend the content and suggestions in this workbook but I'd encourage reading and discussing it with someone else in your church.

[Jo · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is a practical how-to manual to work out the philosophy of discipleship-making proposed in the authors' other book, The Trellis and the Vine. It's a bit of a slog to read front to back since it is supposed to be a workbook for groups wanting to implement these ideas. I did think "Phase I" of the book was almost a better explanation discipleship culture than even the original book.

[David Westerveld · Rating 5 out of 5]

Read through it once on my own and hope to read it again with more leaders in our church. This book really does fit in well as the next step from The Trellis and the Vine. A resource I'll come back to.

[Steve · Rating 4 out of 5]

A helpful book on thinking through what it looks like to shape ministry around the key idea of disciple making. Some particularly helpful thinking about the practicalities of moving people along to the next step in their relationship with God, wherever they arre at.