Beyond Discipline: From Compliance to Community

by Alfie Kohn

Contrasts the idea of discipline, in which things are done to students to control their behavior, with an approach that features teachers working with students to make decisions together within the framework of a caring community.

Genres: Education, Parenting, Teaching, Nonfiction, Psychology, Professional Development, School

166 pages, Paperback

First published August 1, 1996

About the author

Alfie Kohn writes and speaks widely on human behavior, education, and parenting. The author of fourteen books and scores of articles, he lectures at education conferences and universities as well as to parent groups and corporations.

Kohn's criticisms of competition and rewards have been widely discussed and debated, and he has been described in Time magazine as "perhaps the country's most outspoken critic of education's fixation on grades [and] test scores."

Kohn lives (actually) in the Boston area with his wife and two children, and (virtually) at www.alfiekohn.org.

Reviews

[Rachel · Rating 2 out of 5]

If I'm perfectly honest in my feelings on this book, I must say I found chapters 1-5 to be nothing but infuriating, if not destructive, to a teacher's pedagogical outlook on how one should treat their students. It seems as though Kohn has never been in a classroom of children based upon some of the suggestions made regarding a student's ability to intrinsically motivate oneself to make rational decisions at ages which developmental psychology has taught us these skills have yet to develop. Without adding spoilers, I will simply state that, as a teacher, I had a definite raise in blood pressure through the first half of the book and almost decided to chuck it out the window.
HOWEVER, the information provided in chapters 6-8 was pedagogically forward-thinking and wonderful. While I found the methods to achieving a democratic classroom off-putting and detrimental at the offset of the book, the learning environment proposed, in theory, is wonderful. I have utilized many of these tactics in my earlier teaching years and found them to work beautifully in the classroom when adapted to the age and intrinsic capabilities presented by each individual student. There really is some dynamite stuff in the last few chapters.
While I agree with much of what is presented at the conclusion of this book, I can't help but feel as though Kohn is presenting the achievement of these dream classrooms from the standpoint that children are miniature adults who all learn and function socially in the same manner. And while I would not recommend this read to a brand new teacher, I definitely would to my colleagues as a catalyst for some much needed discussion about how we, as teachers, could use some reformation in our pedagogical practices for the betterment of our students as people.

[Joyce · Rating 4 out of 5]

Dit boek begint vrij stevig, met het fileren van allerlei Amerikaanse "discipline programs" en hoe je daarmee van alles bereikt, maar in elk geval geen discipline. School- en opvoedprogramma's die uitgaan van belonen en straffen / behaviorisme hebben we in Nederland wel (denk Triple P en Positive Behavior Support (PBS), maar ze zijn gelukkig niet enorm populair hier. In Amerika is dat een ander verhaal en daarom is het zo fijn dat Alfie Kohn daar zo veel zinnigs over weet te zeggen.
In het tweede deel van het boek gaat hij over op de "Wat dan wel?"-vragen. Hij begint met antwoorden op de vraag waarom het bouwen van een 'community' in je klas zo belangrijk is en hoe je dat zou kunnen doen. En hoe gedrag van kinderen in een klas die werkelijk een community is ook prettiger wordt ervaren. Daarna volgt een interessant deel waarin hij een groep leraren een case voorlegt van een meisje dat de afstandsbediening van de televisie kapot gooit in de klas, en wat zij zouden doen in dat geval. Het gesprek tussen de leraren is interessant om te volgen en laat veel verschillende gezichtspunten zien. Voor Alfie is er niet één goede oplossing: zijn bedoeling hiermee is te laten zien dat het pedagogische gesprek, de pedagogische reflectie, tussen leraren te weinig plaatsvindt, om wat voor reden dan ook, terwijl dat wel enorm belangrijk is voor een school en alle mensen daarin.
Het laatste deel bestaat uit vragen van mensen die zijn boek gelezen hebben en nog hun twijfels hebben dan wel nog niet doorgronden wat hij bedoelt. Het zijn vragen die hij vaak krijgt en waarop hij nu ook de antwoorden geeft.
Als je Alfie een beetje kent, is zijn 'theorie' niets nieuws, maar de manier waarop hij zijn opvattingen hier presenteert is wel erg behulpzaam en een must voor elke opvoeder of leraar, imho.

[Morgan · Rating 1 out of 5]

I did not mean for this to be a 12 paragraph essay so strap in:
I was going through my college teaching books and when I found this one about "classroom management," I thought I should reread it. Even if you're not a teacher, you've probably heard about how hard this year has been especially when it comes to behavior. I figured I could use all the help I could get. Full disclosure: I am trained in Love and Logic/Kid Whisper (a practice in which Kohn directly criticizes this book) so my review may be biased but I promise I gave this a chance.

I got the ick from the introduction when Kohn was talking about visiting extraordinary teachers to see their behavior management but he never saw any behaviors when he was there. He said it couldn't be the day/time he went it had to be something else. Well Alfie I don't think you've spent much time in school. Students put on an act for visitors. Now I'm sure those teachers were great but no behaviors🤨...come on. The freaking Kid Whisper himself has heard me talk about real behaviors and scenarios that happened in my classroom during training but when he shows up to observe, he doesn't see those behaviors. Ya know why? There's a strange man with a clipboard in the room and they're are on their best behavior.

What's the task?
ugh, there's a whole section about how when students are off task the teacher must reflect on what the task was and make it more engaging for them. I put on a freakin song and dance (literally) every day to get these kids to learn. If that's not engaging enough, Alfie honey, you're gonna have to give me something better because I'm tapped out. Also, I can not and WILL NOT make every single assignment the most fun assignment ever.

Kohn goes on to say "Coercion is bad" like okay but. his example of separating talking students at the carpet and that it's bad because it's only serving the needs of the teacher and not teaching the students how to solve problems? I am once again asking if this man has actually been in a classroom. Separating taking students benefits literally everyone, I.E, the students who were distracted are no longer together, the class is not interrupted, the teacher can do their job. Also, how is saying no gum in class wrong? My students know anything that causes a problem can be taken away.

I agree with the stuff about punishment and rewards, they're short-term solutions that gain temporary compliance. Woohoo 1 point for Alfie

Now chapter 4 is where he went after 'consequences', Love & Logic, and incidentally me. Time out, Cooldown corner, recovery, whatever you wanna call it. I have it and I "order" students to go there when the situation calls for it. Sue me.

Kohn argues allowing kids to experience natural consequences can be destructive then pulls out the most extreme examples of bullying. Buddy, we're talking about a student's computer not being charged because they didn't plug it in, not years of neglect. Kohn asks "What message do adults send when they deliberately let something unpleasant happen to a child even though they could've intervened?" One that says YOU are responsible for your actions and YOU are capable of solving your problems.

Conflict
That's your big strategy? I teach 1st and 2nd grade it is nonstop conflict. If I took the time to have a conversation every time two students were arguing, nobody would learn anything.

The tale of two Teachers. Give me a mother-trucking break. The teacher who told her class she was tired of waiting for her kids to come in from recess and worried about getting in trouble with the principal only to have them magically line up perfectly the next day. That's cute. I told my class I was afraid of missing someone's bus getting called because they were so loud during dismissal. A student called me a butthead. Times have changed I guess.

My biggest problem with this book is that Kohn gives no alternatives for managing behaviors. I don't know about y'all but I am sick of being told what not to do. Your classroom meetings are great and all but I've got students throwing chairs, fighting, running in and out of the room, cursing me out, destroying property, and generally being disruptive to the point where no one can learn. Oh boy, I'm making my class sound horrible...it can be at times. It definitely would be if my students didn't have consequences for their actions. And if I hear one more thing about relationships, I will drive my car off the nearest cliff. It's not my first day on the job. I know about building relationships.
Don't read this book.

[Maria · Rating 3 out of 5]

Книгата не ми каза почти нищо ново. Не че съм някакъв експерт по педагогика или пък родител, отгледал 12 успели и щастливи деца, за когото няма тайни в детската психология. Детето ми дори още не е тръгнало на училище. Но възпитанието на деца не е ракетно инженерство, колкото и да се опитат да ни пробутат точно тази теза.
Алфи Коен не казва нищо ново за мен. Проблемът в училищата е с учебната програма и с отношението на учителите (системата – колкото и да ми е неприятна тази дума). Училището е средство за контрол, за дирижиране на мислите, чувствата, отговорите, поведението, а не за учене. Ученето предполага свобода на мисълта. Това, което има в училищата (предполагам, има и изключения) е контрол. Децата трябва да седят мирно, да говорят когато ги питат, да не възразяват, да не спорят - особено с учителите, да дават "правилните" отговори без да ги подлагат на съмнение. Основен критерий дали детето се справя добре е оценката – ако се държи както се очаква от него, значи е „добро дете” и „отличен” ученик.
Ето това е проблемът и той е пред очите ни, винаги си е бил там. Не може основната ни ценност при възпитанието да е послушанието, а след това да искаме възрастните да са отговорни, да имат контрол върху живота си и върху нещата, от които зависи животът им.
Може би ми се искаше Коен да е малко по-смел и по-открито да отговор на въпроса – кому е нужно точно такова образование? Но и той като че ли не смее, въпреки че много енергично критикува създателите на Строгата дисциплина. Споменава Джорж Оруел и Големия брат, но само мимоходом. Истината е, че правителствата и тези, които ни управляват, нямат полза от мислещи хора. Трябват им хора, които изпълняват, без да задават въпроси. И образователната система произвежда масово точно такива. Затова и няма да има промяна отвън.
Каква е алтернативата на Строгата дисциплина и мениджмънта на класа? Исках да прочета черно на бяло отговор, който да е кратък и категоричен, нещо от рода „прави едно, прави две”. Но си дадох сметка (след като прочетох книгата до края), че това не е възможно. Методите за възпитаване на мислещи личности са трудоемки и различни – толкова различни, колкото и хората, които участват в дадена група. Всяка група по свой начин намира решение на възникващите проблеми. Не може да има общовалидна рецепта. Все пак има няколко основни неща.
На първо място е равнопоставеност на децата и учителите – така всеки ще може да се изкаже свободно и да участва в изработването на работещ модел. А моделите могат да са както за учебната програма, така и за въпроси от извънкласните дейности, отношенията в класа и каквото друго се сетим. За целта учителите трябва да се откажат от контрола си върху класната стая, което ми звучи почти като научна фантастика.
На второ място учителите и учениците трябва да изградят общност. Това означава да се чувстват в безопасност заедно, оценени и уважавани, да имат общи цели (напр. научаване на нови неща, справяне с възникнали проблеми, поддържане на приятелска атмосфера). Общността е такова събиране на хора, в която всеки може да запази индивидуалността си, без от това да страдат другите. И не е същото като да подчиниш себе си на нуждите на колектива.
От познатите ми методи за възпитание на деца, идеите на Алфи Коен се покриват с идеите на Томас Гордън (Трениране на успешни родители). Пробвала съм методите на Гордън и мога да кажа, че са трудни за прилагане без човек да разполага с подходящ начин на мислене и подходящите инструменти (езикови умения например). Отнемат време и енергия, но за сметка на то��а дават неочаквани резултати. Трудно се отглежда дете, което спори за всичко и настоява за информация защо трябва да направи това или онова. Трудно се манипулира това дете – с награди или наказания. Трудно е за родителя да се отдели от краткосрочната цел (отиване на време някъде) и да следи за дългосрочните ползи. Но родителят би бил мотивиран заради детето си, а образователната система трябва да произведе послушни хора в полза на едно спорно общество. Т.е. липсва мотивацията за промяна.
Единствената ми надежда е да има повече книги като „Митът за дисциплината” и чрез тях лека полека да се промени мисленето - ако не на всички, то поне на малка част от учителите. Може би след време количествените натрупвания ще доведат до качествени изменения.

[Царевна · Rating 5 out of 5]

Тезата на Алфи Кон е, че със строга дисциплина (масово използваният поход за управление на класната стая от почти всички учители в традиционните училища, свеждащ се до въвеждане на система от награди и наказания с цел постигане на пълно подчинение) не се формират нравствените качества и социалните умения, които самите учители иначе са си поставили като главна цел в работата си с децата. Напълно съм съгласна с тази теза и напълно неспособна на този етап да следвам в работата ми съдържащата се в нея препоръка. Чрез система от строги правила и ефективен контрол на тяхното спазване, в най-добрия случай се постига функциониране в рамките на чужда морална система, но не и дълбоко, вътрешно убеждение, че е правилно да се постъпва така. Морал не се възпитава чрез налагането му, както правим в училище, той се постига чрез постепенно самоконструиране, за което обаче не създаваме нужните условия.

Тази книга критикува почти всичко, което съм виждала да се прави в училище по отношение на дисциплината и убедително доказва неговата несъстоятелност. Всяка страница разби по една малка или голяма илюзия по отношение на моята работа, свързана поддържането на реда в класната стая. Каква е алтернативата? Дадена е в книгата, но е много трудна за следване, не само защото изисква коренна промяна в нагласите на учителите и смелост да отслабят контрола, който им дава сигурност, че управлението е в техни ръце, но и защото предполага опълчване срещу вековни традиции и най-вече – изправяне срещу всеки елемент от училищната среда, в който функционира всеки учител с учениците си.

[Book Him Danno · Rating 4 out of 5]

Letting the students work out their own problems is a great plan, yes it will take time for them to learn how to do this, but they will need this skill in the future. Jobs are going to pay you for the work you do, but it isn't always going to be fun just like school. Learning to learn for learning sake is what we want kids to do, so letting them drive the class seems reasonable. Constructivism follows this course, student-centered learning where the teacher is a guide on the side, not the expert, sage on the stage or the dictator.

It will take work to make a classroom student centered, but happier student’s means more productive students and that would lead to a more positive environment where the students would want to be…that is close to learning for learning’s sake. We want to build strong leaders for the future, we don’t want ones that need constant positive reinforcements and constant carrots or they will never be able to think and act for themselves. Making choices and following through with those choices make us feel good about ourselves, our work and our lives. Lets get kids to feel the same way…no one likes being told what to do…not you and not students.

Published: Published August 1st 2006 by Association for Supervision & Curriculum Development
ISBN: 9781416604723
Copyright: 2006

[Rebecca · Rating 5 out of 5]

Highest possible recommendation. Beyond Discipline is readable and rigorous in its takedown of what doesn't work (threats and treats), what still doesn't work (subtler threats and shinier treats), and what actually helps our students learn to participate productively in a community. Kohn lays out the ground principles of a caring community clearly and convincingly.

As with most PD books, I see low reviews coming from people who wanted concrete techniques to implement directly in the classroom. This is not the right book for you if you need a handful of tricks to address a problematic class. Kohn's work lays out a philosophy of teaching and learning that forces you to reconsider your whole instructional design. It's a wrecking ball, not a repair shop. There's nothing here you can tack on to your existing practice. But if you're ready to dismantle and rebuild, this is an invaluable resource.

[Helen · Rating 5 out of 5]

As an educator for 18 years, I like revisiting these ideas time after time. This years students need the processes presented here more than ever. The pandemic did serious damage to their ability to be together all day. I’m slowly implementing the ideas presented. It can be demanding, especially when we are all used to the school discipline system (which isn’t working for my struggling students). Thank the Lord for Allie Kohn!

[Gabie (OwlEyesReviews) · Rating 3 out of 5]

This book gave me a lot of really rich ideas and strategies for creating community in my future classroom. Although I do not believe that everything in this book is applicable to every situation, I do think that I will use this book as a resource in my future.

[Bella · Rating 4 out of 5]

4.5 stars. God, I love Alfie Kohn. I read this mainly because I wanted something to point to as evidence that children deserve to be treated as humans when I'm deemed too "soft" / nice in the classroom and, moreover, that the compliance we teachers are told to demand does not equate to actual learning. That so many reviewers see this as utopian I think proves Kohn's very point.

[Drew Canole · Rating 3 out of 5]

An interesting subject and premise, but I don't think the content justified the length. It's not a long book; it just doesn't have much content. It's a very negative book in that it criticizes at length forms of discipline in the classroom but it doesn't offer much to replace those forms.

Punishment (and reward, which has the same outcome as punishment) allows teachers to gain temporary compliance. It has bad psychological effects on the children. Children grown up can feel these effects, like me who, for the most part, went through the whole punishment/reward system, when they are adults. The book doesn't dwell on the future effects, however. The punishment system also doesn't teach the students anything about why they should behave. It simply gives them an incentive to.

The punishment system also presupposes that what the teachers are having the students do is correct. For example, punishing a kid for not being able to sit still suggests that the kid should sit still. It is likely that this is a ridiculous request - kids are meant to move around. To extent this principle; perhaps it is the curriculum itself that is causing the 'ill' behaviour - kids tend to lose interest if a subject is too easy, too hard, or too repetitive.

Kohn wants teachers to consider what the goal of education is. It is not to 'get students to memorize the names of the founding fathers'. But it is more likely to get students to be independent thinkers, lovers of knowledge and thought, etc.

I already agreed with Kohn going into this book, so perhaps that is why I found it a bit boring - it was trying to convince me of things I am already into. It's almost foreign to me that people would endorse the disciplinary systems Kohn criticizes (can't educators recall their own childhoods?).

The book reads like a dumbed-down version of some of John Dewey's educational works. It's shocking to me that this book is considered a "modern classic" (that label may just be the book publisher being a bit too emphatic) as it really has no new information, it rehashes, simplifies, and puts into digestible form, information that has been in print for at least a hundred years (probably more, as I may discover if I read more on education and children; I mention Dewey because he's what I've read, and he's quite popular).

[D · Rating 4 out of 5]

I like how Alfie Kohn thinks ~ respecting the integrity of each person rather than ramrodding. The principle of community building is reiterated throughout the book. He challenges us to move from control to relationship, from compliance to community -- ostensibly in school, although this is generalizable to all facets of life!

"If we want children to grow up to be compassionate people, we have to help them change educational structures." Mr. Kohn promotes replacing obedience with constructing a caring classroom, recognizing the effort takes time and talent, patience and skill and courage (being willing to take a hard look at one’s curriculum and give up what we've got for the promise of trust and respect down the line). The new classroom is based on Edward Deci and Richard Ryan's (1990) proposed 3 universal human needs:

1. Autonomy (self-determinism; oneself as origin of decisions rather than victim of things outside one’s control)
2. Relatedness (connection with others, belonging and love and affirmation)
3. Competence (learning new things, acquiring skills and putting them to use)


"Children act in troubling ways because they are wanting for warm, caring relationships that enable and incline people to act more compassionately."

Teachers model and explain and show you care. Help kids become better problem solvers, and see how actions affect others. Provide guidance when someone is obnoxious rather than enforcing rules. Treat everyone with care and respect.

As we manage the inevitable conflicts (which are useful teaching moments), we can examine our actions and values, and ask: “Cui bono?” Who benefits? The wrestling with dilemmas, the clash of ideas, the need to take others’ needs into account -- these are ultimately more meaningful than any list of rules or guidelines. The process matters at least as much as the product.

[Camille · Rating 5 out of 5]

EXCELLENT BOOK. A Must-Read for all teachers, students, parents...heck, everyone! Thanks to the revelations in this book, I can draw a straight line from the educational system to the violent and punitive society many of us live in. Reward and punishment, "rules" and control, false choices and compulsion to comply...it's no surprise we have such a terribly flimsy democracy here in America. But don't worry, there is an answer. It's community, and Kohn supplies lots of excellent suggestions for how to build it as well as harrowing stories of children as young as 7 years, who are working towards building democratic classroom communities. This is a quick and interesting read and I can't recommend highly enough.

[Христо Блажев · Rating 5 out of 5]

Дресура за деца – “Митът за дисциплината” на Алфи Кон
http://www.knigolandia.info/2011/11/b...

“Има ли разлика между начина, по който дисциплинираме децата и начина, по който дресираме животните? Алфи Кон показва недвусмислено (документирано), че методите, които прилагаме по отношение на учениците в училище, са разработени с цел модификация на поведението на лабораторни животни. Нашата педагогика се гордее с процедури и тактики, заимствани от експерименти с гълъби и мишки. Възможно ли е отговорът на този въпрос да не ни смущава?

[Sumiko · Rating 3 out of 5]

Kohn spends a lot of time writing about why conventional discipline doesn't work and cites many studies for proof. He states that building a community is more important, but gives disappointingly little advice on how to achieve that. He gives some lists of principles to follow but then says he can't give specifics because each situation is different. It would have been a much more compelling book if he had included more sample scenarios and conversations such as he wrote in the last chapter.

[Kalyn · Rating 5 out of 5]

So much food for thought! So important to think about why we do the things we do in a classroom, and the real impact of consequences and quasi-choices.

"The only way to help students become ethical people, as opposed to people who merely do what they are told, is to have them construct moral meaning. It is to help them figure out - for themselves and with each other - how one ought to act."

[Jason]

I'm excited for the next school year. I can't imagine ever going back to the way I used to do things. I wish someone had given me this book and The Schools Our Children Deserve (by Kohn) my first year of teaching.

[Meg · Rating 4 out of 5]

People weren't using the term "restorative justice" as much when Kohn wrote this book, but it surely applies. I found this book to be a more focused and convincing read, with more practical suggestions, than "Unconditional Parenting." I like his "class meetings" ideas.

[Rose Peterson · Rating 4 out of 5]

I appreciate Kohn's criticism of classroom management and advocacy for community building but feel his argument could have been made in half as many pages.

[Sami · Rating 4 out of 5]

1. Major Literary Elements
Within Beyond Discipline: From Compliance to Community, there are three main literary elements utilized throughout the book that plays a large role in helping the author, Alfie Kohn, get his point across. These three main literary elements are anecdotes, dialogue, and themes. The anecdotes provide readers with real-life examples of how discipline is used or not used in states across the nation. Dialogue is used throughout Beyond Discipline to convey responses from real teachers and organizations on their opinions on what discipline and community should look like in the classroom. Lastly, Kohn uses themes, such as good versus bad, in order to illustrate why teachers should move beyond looking for compliance in classrooms and move towards community.
2. Strengths and Weaknesses
In my personal opinion, of the three literary elements present, I feel that the anecdotes worked best in Kohn's writing. As mentioned in the previous section, the anecdotes provided me specifically how Kohn wanted a classroom that went beyond compliance (and discipline) to be situated and structured. Because of the anecdotes, I could better visualize what Kohn meant. Kohn's explanations were great, but, without the anecdotes, I was a little lost; I was unsure of how the theory would work in practice or reality. It also allowed me better insight into the "how tos" and "how not tos" of creating classroom community.
While I have to say that I did enjoy this book better than most class-required readings, my main point of contention with the book was the explanation of how not to achieve classroom community and why teachers should not implement disciplinary practices such as rewards and punishment. A reader should understand the "bad" and why the author believes it is bad before dissecting the "good" and why we should have it. But, my problem with the explanation of the bad is that I thought that it was dragged out too much, especially relative to the focus on how a classroom should be run to foster a good classroom community. I think to improve on this Kohn could have either expanded on how to foster community or even limited commentary on bad practices. On another note, I also did not appreciate Kohn’s assertion that with classroom community there is no need for discipline without any research to back the claim up.
3. Context
I have not read any other books by Alfie Kohn, but I decided to read Beyond Discipline because of the title. As a future teacher, the topic of discipline has made me wary because there are a lot of controversial things regarding discipline such as what is considered "right", whether teachers have the right to discipline, as well as the non-academic situations that may cause students to act out in the first place. I hoped in reading this book I would get a clearer understanding of how to deal with the subject of discipline in general. In my case, I can say that I have (and learned the merits of building community over prioritizing discipline).
Beyond Discipline is one of Kohn's earliest books. This book is not a sequel to his other works. Some of Kohn's other books concern discipline while other books written by him focus on topics regarding how school should be structured among other concepts. Kohn wrote Beyond Discipline in order to make teachers aware of the fact that discipline and control from the teacher are not necessary to run a successful classroom. Rather, Kohn posits that community within the classroom negates the use of discipline and ensures a democratic and caring environment for students. The NAIS academic forum says the book is “really about doing the essential work that will help democracy thrive”.
4. Summary
In Beyond Discipline: From Compliance to Community, Alfie Kohn invites teachers to step away from the traditional methods of discipline such as rewards and punishments and the belief that their main purpose is to take control of their students. Instead, Kohn reasons that compliance in students comes from letting students have their voices and opinions heard through a democratic classroom and ensuring a classroom filled with community. With a democratic and community-filled classroom, discipline is no longer a dilemma in the classroom.
This book definitely changed my perspective and thoughts for the better. I now realize that how things are done today in schools (but also in general) needs to be questioned in terms of its effectiveness. While I do believe that rules need to be in place in certain circumstances, some rules are present merely because of the attitudes that adults have towards children not necessarily because they need to be there. As for my recommendation, I would recommend this book to others. I think that it would help others in starting to question what we have had in place for so long and think of more alternatives that would better serve students. (Though, to end this on a negative note, I am still a bit skeptical about how community totally eradicates a need for discipline.)

[Norrenna Hubbard · Rating 3 out of 5]

Beyond Discipline by Alphie Kohn starts as an expository essay that focuses on the problem of “classroom management” and the solution of community building. There is use of several clichés associated with well-known programs designed to assist teachers in ‘managing’ their classrooms. This essay also uses foreshadowing to keep interest in early chapters where it starts to feel redundant during the first four chapters as it tears down Assertive discipline, 21st century discipline, Discipline with dignity and other programs that have been popular with schools and professional development. These foreshadowing segments help to keep interest of the reader. As the book shifts from this critique to describing its own method of creating school and classroom culture to include students in the process of creating a community of learners, the author uses dialogue frequently to demonstrate how important he feels it is that teachers talk with each other about how to handle various situations that they may encounter.

One of the most frustrating aspects of this book is the first four chapters. The expository essay style was redundant and caused me to lose interest in what Kohn was trying to say. As stated above, the only portion that kept me interested in the first few chapters was the foreshadowing of what Kohn wanted to talk about in the last 4 chapters–that foreshadowing was the only portion that was positive in the first four chapters. In my experience, this is a common way that education textbooks are written. For this reason, I would suggest skimming through chapters 1-4 and focus more energy on chapters 5-8 and the afterward. The dialogue used in chapters 7 and 8 was very helpful in demonstrating how teachers can work through situations together, thereby helping teachers be in community with each other as well as with their students. It isn’t explicitly said, but when teachers are in a community, the students will feel that and it helps to build community in the whole school.

This book is the first Kohn book that I have read, however the style one that I feel is typical of education texts with a long background for why change is needed before introducing a new method or procedure. I chose this book because I have followed the above mentioned ‘classroom management’ techniques without much long-term success and I wanted to learn a way to create a culture of learning in my classroom that was less work for me in the long run. This book doesn’t really give me anything that is less work, in fact this might be more work, however it would help to create a culture where learning can happen–and isn’t that every teacher’s goal?

I would recommend this book as an introduction to different ideas in how to create a community of learners, however I do think that more research by a teacher is needed to provide teachers with various tools to help them create that community. I think that the Afterward and Appendices of this 10th anniversary edition aren’t to be skipped and Kohn attempts to clear up and answer questions that many educators have had. These answers help to fill in the gaps in how to actually implement Kohn’s plan of Beyond Discipline. I look forward to implementing some of these ideas in the future. I will say that Kohn’s style is probably not my personal style, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t implement portions of it that will not help my classroom be more of a community of learners, especially during that self-absorbed age of teenagers who struggle to see beyond themselves and their own needs.

[Rebecca · Rating 3 out of 5]

I did not find anything Earth shattering in this book. However, I think Kohn's work belongs in the conversation of how to create safer, stronger schools. He argues that students need to be given more choice and say in the running of their schools and classrooms. His claim is founded in the idea that one only learns through exposure and practical experience. If teachers and administrators are left to make all the decisions surrounding student conflict, students never learn how to problem solve when they encounter concerns with others.

While I agree with what Kohn postulates, I was put off by the dated research and programs he highlights in the book. Many of the practices that he outlines are not longer be used in most schools. However, he is not wrong in pointing them out, as they have played a major role in shaping existing thinking and programs. I wished that more focus was placed on this rather than taking quotes from 1963 to make comparisons.

In the end, I think that Kohn's push for to switch power and control from teachers/administrators to students is apt. It is timely in consideration of the activists emerging from the horror of school shootings. In many respects, the adults of today have failed America's youth in protecting them and giving them the guidance they need to prepare for tomorrow's world. Asking teachers t0 think critically about ways to hand over more control to students and act put learning in their hands is admirable.

A book worthy of reading. However, serious consideration should be given to some of his more heavy handed ideas about public praise and two hour class meetings. Despite some of my misgivings, I think this book should be a part of the dialogue surrounding school programing and culture.

[Scott Rushing · Rating 3 out of 5]

I found this book after reading Becky Kennedy’s book Good Inside. That book revolutionized the way we approach parenting, and it led me to wonder if there were any books that applied a similar approach to classroom behavior management.

Beyond Discipline is both radical and somewhat conventional. I say conventional because some of the ideas that he advocates for in 1996 are commonplace now, such as Advisory periods for SEL instruction.

But the primary focus of this book is to scrap traditional discipline methods of rewards and consequences in favor of a more democratic method that allows students to have choices about everything from instructional delivery to behavior ideals.

There are some ideas in here that I have intuitively incorporated into my teaching. One example is that I often listen to my students when they are avoiding work or off task on an assignment and distracting their classmates. But I say often, because sometimes my patience is thin, I’m worn out, or time is short because our lesson plans call for us to do too much in the time allotted.

This leads me to my major critique, which is a common one that the author must hear because he addressed it head on in his afterword. I have never taught in a school where this is the culture, and students adapt to the culture of the school. Furthermore, I have never seen this methodology in action from another teacher. So putting these abstract ideas in practice with no modeling is a messy risk. That is a difficult challenge when Kohn already admits that a democratic approach to classroom management already requires a slow and patient adoption process.

[Taylor Feldman · Rating 5 out of 5]

This was truly thought provoking. I checked out a stack of classroom management books from the library (without really researching them) to read this summer in my quest to be come a strict teacher with less discipline problems, but this book was at the top of the stack and got read first. It’s called my whole goal into question, and has effectively ruined the rest of my stack of books. While I’m skeptical (maybe out of cynicism) about some ideas in the book, I think that I’m going to give the concepts Kohn outlined a shot this year.

I resonated with most of the ideas, but more importantly I found myself remembering my feelings towards school as a child. I hated school, and as Kohn suggests of punishments, rewards, coercion, goals of compliance, and views of students as objects, I actively felt my sense of autonomy imposed upon. I saw - as a student - these methods and the heart behind them. I don’t know how I have forgotten those feelings and perceptions as I’ve aged and taken up the role of a teacher, but this book was the reminder I needed.

Even though my colleagues will think I’ve lost my mind, I’m going to find out how these ideas work when put into practice. Maybe I’ll even remember to update this review next year after I’ve given them a shot.

[Eshaneh · Rating 5 out of 5]

I resonated with Kohn's perspective and logic. I have also seen that all too often, rewards and punishments backfire with children, and get in the way of children developing a true sense of consideration for others and a sense of morality. It seems that not much has changed since Kohn first published the book in 1996. There is still a hyper focus on classroom management, instead of developing a sense of community in the classroom, which would likely reduce things like bullying also. The only criticism I have of this book is that Kohn only made passing mention to children with disabilities. There is now data showing that children with disabilities are more likely than non-disabled peers to be severely disciplined (including restraint, suspension, etc.); and children with disabilities who are also children of color are the most likely to be severely disciplined. And to be fair, that research had not been done at the time Kohn first wrote this book, however, there were indications that it was happening. Overall, though, I think the book is excellent and wish more educators would read it.

[Shae Fox · Rating 4 out of 5]

As a pre-service teacher, we were assigned this book to read. I LOVED it. I felt like all of my gut feelings about the education system were validated and expanded upon.

I am now in my first year teaching and I am NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, following the philosophy of this book.

One of the main themes of the book is that discipline satisfies a short-term goal but sends a long-term message that is harmful. The problem is, I only have the energy to worry about the short term goals when I have 140 students and at least five of them are disrespectful toward me every day.

In my heart, I want to run a classroom the Kohn way but I don’t know how. I’m not confident that it’s possible in our public school system.

[Gracie Hopkins · Rating 5 out of 5]

Alfie Kohn’s work has great impacted who I am as a professional. He critiques the status quo of schools with such intellect and inquiry. I appreciated this book for its deep contemplation of why the teaching profession is the way that it is. We must recognize our own faults and temptations as a profession that work to oppress students and police their actions and bodies. We must analyze why schools are the way that they are if we are to truly transform it.

[RandomScholar · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book is a must-read for anyone working with children, but especially educators. This book draws on past research to critique the punishment/reward system while simultaneously offering advice on how to build responsible, caring communities within the classroom. I would recommend this book to every teacher, parent, and administrator I know.

[Jessica Chandler · Rating 4 out of 5]

Beyond Discipline’s Promise is Still Beyond Me

I don’t buy in to all that Kohn presents in this book, nor do I see punishment as exclusively negative as Kohn would like to present. I do agree with his assessment for the need to build community through authentic choices, but it seems he views the resolutions achieved only through hyperbolic means.

[HBW · Rating 4 out of 5]

Alfie Kohn’s educational theories are the basis of much of today’s reconsideration of neo-Liberal educational theory, and I was raised on his system of work. However, this book itself takes aim directly at many of his contemporaries and predecessors in ways I just wasn’t comfortable with (not in their content, but in their tone). A great read, but with very few concrete solutions!