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Stoic Virtue Series #2
Discipline Is Destiny
To master anything, we must first master our emotions, thoughts and actions. This ancient virtue of self-control is more essential than ever. In this bestselling book, Ryan Holiday makes the case for this essential virtue, and shows how to cultivate willpower, self-respect and focus. From Marcus Aurelius to Toni Morrison, Queen Elizabeth II to Martin Luther King Jr, history's greats have all understood the power of directing your habits and setting your limits. History's cautionary tales prove the same point, from catastrophic military overreaches to career-destroying without self-discipline, we are lost before we can even begin. Self-discipline is the key to our greatest ambitions and simplest this book will show you how to find it, apply it and reap the rewards.
352 pages, Paperback
First published September 27, 2022
6177 people are currently reading
36960 people want to read
About the author
Ryan Holiday
98 books18.3k followersRyan Holiday is media strategist for notorious clients like Tucker Max and Dov Charney. After dropping out of college at 19 to apprentice under the strategist Robert Greene, he went on to advise many bestselling authors and multi-platinum musicians. He is the Director of Marketing at American Apparel, where his work in advertising was internationally known. His strategies are used as case studies by Twitter, YouTube, and Google, and have been written about in AdAge, the New York Times, Gawker, and Fast Company. He is the author is *Trust Me, I'm Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator*, which is due out in July. He currently lives in New Orleans, with his rebellious puppy, Hanno.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 1,668 reviews
September 29, 2022
I've read all of Ryans book now. The last one and this current release make it too repetitive. As if the same Stoic lessons are being overused to say the same thing again and again in every book.
June 8, 2024
“Unless we'd rather be adrift, vulnerable, disordered, disconnected, we are responsible for ourselves. Technology, access, success, power, privilege- this is only a blessing when accompanied by the second of the cardinal virtues: self-restraint.”
A few years ago, The Obstacle Is The Way changed my life. But this new book by Ryan holiday might be my favorite. Discipline is Destiny draws on the stories of historical figures such as Lou Gehrig, Queen Elizabeth II, boxer Floyd Patterson, and Marcus Aurelius, as well as the cautionary tales of Napoleon, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and Babe Ruth.
I love the short chapters. They’re easy to digest and made the book easy to read. It’s also worth mentioning Ryan Holiday’s writing style. He frequently incorporates quotes and anecdotes from some of the smartest people throughout human history.
It doesn’t matter if you’re a writer, artist, or an employee at Walmart. This book is definitely worth reading as soon as possible.
Five stars.
A few years ago, The Obstacle Is The Way changed my life. But this new book by Ryan holiday might be my favorite. Discipline is Destiny draws on the stories of historical figures such as Lou Gehrig, Queen Elizabeth II, boxer Floyd Patterson, and Marcus Aurelius, as well as the cautionary tales of Napoleon, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and Babe Ruth.
I love the short chapters. They’re easy to digest and made the book easy to read. It’s also worth mentioning Ryan Holiday’s writing style. He frequently incorporates quotes and anecdotes from some of the smartest people throughout human history.
It doesn’t matter if you’re a writer, artist, or an employee at Walmart. This book is definitely worth reading as soon as possible.
Five stars.
October 23, 2022
A slog to get through, but with some nuggets buried along the way. This book is repetitive to an overwhelming degree. The structure is an absolute mess, with chapters of wildly different quality. Most of the time the "wisdom" in this book barely rises above platitudes that you've heard or read before, but there are still so valuable items scattered in here. Unfortunately this book could've been edited down to a tight 25 or so pages; maybe 100 if you decided to keep the indulgent, revisionist, and hero-worshipping "histories."
The crux of the book is "just do it." Any discussion of "how" is, apparently, not of importance.
The crux of the book is "just do it." Any discussion of "how" is, apparently, not of importance.
January 15, 2023
A book full of bad examples and contradictions. Must I have to endure more American civil war and American sports examples? Someone who can’t stop playing baseball even when injured has no discipline - it would show greater discipline to recover from those injuries, rather than keeping going just to be ‘great’ or to do what he enjoys. Ryan suggests a lack of deep thinking by poor examples like this.
Also, it would be nice to have non self-centred or non career examples. How about personal life struggles or people who try to do good, rather than ‘leaders’, athletes and the like? It isn’t very relatable to most of us.
The book is really just for writers and other privileged people who do (as work) something they want to do. It isn’t for most of us that do a job to support our families and have bosses, it’s for those who are bosses. Ryan shows no awareness of how the world works - most of us work to live and don’t live to work. How about discipline for everyday life and happiness, not discipline to make you a ‘leader’?
Sports analogy? Boring. Old American political analogy? Boring. Can’t Ryan give an analogy that actually resonates with real people? Sports athletes are not the most well balanced: they do it all for themselves and not at all for the greater good, so this is the worst example for Stoic virtues.
He talks of ‘managing the load’ (ie to rest so that you can work when it counts) after giving a chapter talking about Gehring who didn’t rest and worked with broken bones and seemed to praise this absolutely insane desire for winning and disregard for the long term effects….just one contradiction in a book of many.
Constant contradictions, such as saying ‘oh you must sit until the task is done even if your eyes water and your legs go numb’ but also earlier discussed moderation and the importance of rest. Does Ryan even proof read? It all just reads like catchy sound bites - sounds good but no substance behind it.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Ryan. His podcasts on Stoicism helped save my life in a really dark time. He makes this ancient philosophy relatable and understandable and I thank him sincerely for this.
He talks about the importance of focus, giving the example of someone who couldn’t focus on conversations because they were too focused on something else - clearly this is not focus!
Constant analogies about writers, sports people, politicians, soldiers, these do not exactly relate to the average human. These aren’t what most of us are, and he also seems to focus exclusively on work rather than personal life - which is really what matters. At the end of our life will we think ‘I wish I had worked more’ or will we think ‘I wish I had worked less and seen my loved ones more’. Ryan’s obsession with work life and ‘leadership’ doesn’t get the balance of life right - it isn’t the key to a good life at all. A workaholic has no discipline.
He talks a lot about how to be ‘great’ and the ambition to be ‘great’, and given that this book series is supposed to be about the Stoic virtues, this is not at all Stoic. Being ‘great’ is not something you have control over, nor is it something that actually creates a good life. Do normal people care about being ‘great’? No. We just want a good life. Most of us aren’t writers, athletes or politicians - we have bosses, normal jobs, people above us and do not have the luxury of deciding when to work or how to work. Ryan seems very out of touch with what a normal person is, he is too focused on his Silicon Valley type Stoicism to actually see what real Stoicism is.
You get the impression you have read this book before.
This sentence says it all and says why it isn’t relatable: “people who are doing less important things than you can get away with not being in control”. In other words, Ryan is only talking to powerful people or those who think they are important, he isn’t talking to normal people who have bosses and normal jobs. We’re not all privileged writers, athletes or others who’s career is just about them. Most of us work to live and maybe even want to help others (rather than the athlete who just helps themselves).
He makes Stoicism about work success but it should be about self improvement, which can then lead to work success.
Ryan’s earlier series (Ego/Obstacle/stillness) were decent books but this series is just a bunch of books with ‘motivational phrases’, trying to call people to somehow want to be leaders. The normal person just wants happiness and contentment, leadership is over rated and he aims only at a small percentage of the population with these new books.
Copious battle and war analogies…how will that help anyone? Just what I need when I have a personal issue, to think of some ancient war. Very relevant!
Ryan gets more and more unrelatable. He seems to just use examples of what he is interested in (sport and war…dull much?)
Ended reading this book at page 287 as I couldn’t take the boredom anymore. I won’t waste more of my life with this drivel. Sorry Ryan.
Also, it would be nice to have non self-centred or non career examples. How about personal life struggles or people who try to do good, rather than ‘leaders’, athletes and the like? It isn’t very relatable to most of us.
The book is really just for writers and other privileged people who do (as work) something they want to do. It isn’t for most of us that do a job to support our families and have bosses, it’s for those who are bosses. Ryan shows no awareness of how the world works - most of us work to live and don’t live to work. How about discipline for everyday life and happiness, not discipline to make you a ‘leader’?
Sports analogy? Boring. Old American political analogy? Boring. Can’t Ryan give an analogy that actually resonates with real people? Sports athletes are not the most well balanced: they do it all for themselves and not at all for the greater good, so this is the worst example for Stoic virtues.
He talks of ‘managing the load’ (ie to rest so that you can work when it counts) after giving a chapter talking about Gehring who didn’t rest and worked with broken bones and seemed to praise this absolutely insane desire for winning and disregard for the long term effects….just one contradiction in a book of many.
Constant contradictions, such as saying ‘oh you must sit until the task is done even if your eyes water and your legs go numb’ but also earlier discussed moderation and the importance of rest. Does Ryan even proof read? It all just reads like catchy sound bites - sounds good but no substance behind it.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Ryan. His podcasts on Stoicism helped save my life in a really dark time. He makes this ancient philosophy relatable and understandable and I thank him sincerely for this.
He talks about the importance of focus, giving the example of someone who couldn’t focus on conversations because they were too focused on something else - clearly this is not focus!
Constant analogies about writers, sports people, politicians, soldiers, these do not exactly relate to the average human. These aren’t what most of us are, and he also seems to focus exclusively on work rather than personal life - which is really what matters. At the end of our life will we think ‘I wish I had worked more’ or will we think ‘I wish I had worked less and seen my loved ones more’. Ryan’s obsession with work life and ‘leadership’ doesn’t get the balance of life right - it isn’t the key to a good life at all. A workaholic has no discipline.
He talks a lot about how to be ‘great’ and the ambition to be ‘great’, and given that this book series is supposed to be about the Stoic virtues, this is not at all Stoic. Being ‘great’ is not something you have control over, nor is it something that actually creates a good life. Do normal people care about being ‘great’? No. We just want a good life. Most of us aren’t writers, athletes or politicians - we have bosses, normal jobs, people above us and do not have the luxury of deciding when to work or how to work. Ryan seems very out of touch with what a normal person is, he is too focused on his Silicon Valley type Stoicism to actually see what real Stoicism is.
You get the impression you have read this book before.
This sentence says it all and says why it isn’t relatable: “people who are doing less important things than you can get away with not being in control”. In other words, Ryan is only talking to powerful people or those who think they are important, he isn’t talking to normal people who have bosses and normal jobs. We’re not all privileged writers, athletes or others who’s career is just about them. Most of us work to live and maybe even want to help others (rather than the athlete who just helps themselves).
He makes Stoicism about work success but it should be about self improvement, which can then lead to work success.
Ryan’s earlier series (Ego/Obstacle/stillness) were decent books but this series is just a bunch of books with ‘motivational phrases’, trying to call people to somehow want to be leaders. The normal person just wants happiness and contentment, leadership is over rated and he aims only at a small percentage of the population with these new books.
Copious battle and war analogies…how will that help anyone? Just what I need when I have a personal issue, to think of some ancient war. Very relevant!
Ryan gets more and more unrelatable. He seems to just use examples of what he is interested in (sport and war…dull much?)
Ended reading this book at page 287 as I couldn’t take the boredom anymore. I won’t waste more of my life with this drivel. Sorry Ryan.
October 4, 2022
Discipline is Destiny is right alongside The Obstacle is the Way as not only my favorite Ryan Holiday books, but as some of my favorite books of all time.
While I have been disappointed in Holiday’s foray into politics and the amateur practicing of medicine during and after the Covid-19 pandemic, (by insisting that anyone who disagrees with him regarding vaccines is an idiot) his writing remains as solid as ever and seems to have matured. It is quite obvious that he has given himself to his craft and Discipline is Destiny reads accordingly.
I wholeheartedly recommend this book to anyone who wants to make their life better. Broad brushstroke, I know, but I have a hard time believing that someone could read or listen to this entire book without being at least a little, if not a whole lot better for it.
As a final endorsement of this book, I have already purchased the kindle version and plan on immediately re-reading the entire book to allow the content to sink in that much deeper as I know how much I need more discipline in just about every area of my life. After my second reading of the book, I am planning to get “Discipline is Destiny” tattooed prominently on my forearm as a reminder to all points learned. Kidding. Probably kidding anyway...
All that to say that I can’t more highly recommend this book and the practice of personal discipline to anyone seeking to make the very most of their life.
I did the audiobook which was read by the author and done very well.
While I have been disappointed in Holiday’s foray into politics and the amateur practicing of medicine during and after the Covid-19 pandemic, (by insisting that anyone who disagrees with him regarding vaccines is an idiot) his writing remains as solid as ever and seems to have matured. It is quite obvious that he has given himself to his craft and Discipline is Destiny reads accordingly.
I wholeheartedly recommend this book to anyone who wants to make their life better. Broad brushstroke, I know, but I have a hard time believing that someone could read or listen to this entire book without being at least a little, if not a whole lot better for it.
As a final endorsement of this book, I have already purchased the kindle version and plan on immediately re-reading the entire book to allow the content to sink in that much deeper as I know how much I need more discipline in just about every area of my life. After my second reading of the book, I am planning to get “Discipline is Destiny” tattooed prominently on my forearm as a reminder to all points learned. Kidding. Probably kidding anyway...
All that to say that I can’t more highly recommend this book and the practice of personal discipline to anyone seeking to make the very most of their life.
I did the audiobook which was read by the author and done very well.
December 17, 2022
Cherry picks anecdotes from the lives of famous people to support his pre-existing ideas of the way life should be. Works well when he uses examples from the lives of those you admire to support a point you already support. Otherwise less compelling. Is Queen Elizabeth's ability to stand for a long time really a good example of resilience?
December 9, 2022
Ryan's older books, such as, The Obstacle is the Way, was a great book. Now he's just a left wing lunatic disguised as a stoic to sell stuff. He's better at marketing garbage by calling it stoicism, than he is writing books. When I got to the part of this book where he said, "People would rather die, than wear a mask," referring to Covid, I just couldn't take him or the book serious anymore.
January 10, 2023
It was kind of sad to read examples of people who just went to the extreme to become the best- especially Lou Gehrig. His story was supposed to be inspiring discipline in not giving up, but I saw it as a workaholic man who put himself first above all, to the point of of abusing his body.
There were some basic principles in here that were good, but nothing earth shattering that I hadn’t heard before.
His lack of Bible knowledge was clearly evident while trying to pull Bible verses in a few places to make it fit his point.
And finally his dig at anti-maskers was just ridiculous. Didn’t age well considering so many studies have come out now saying masks didn’t work.
If you want a book on discipline, read A Celebration of Discipline.
There were some basic principles in here that were good, but nothing earth shattering that I hadn’t heard before.
His lack of Bible knowledge was clearly evident while trying to pull Bible verses in a few places to make it fit his point.
And finally his dig at anti-maskers was just ridiculous. Didn’t age well considering so many studies have come out now saying masks didn’t work.
If you want a book on discipline, read A Celebration of Discipline.
October 29, 2022
"From Aristotle to Heraclitus, St. Thomas Aquinas to the Stoics, from The Iliad to the Bible, in Buddhism, in Confucianism, in Islam—the ancients had many words and many symbols for what amounts to a timeless law of the universe: We must keep ourselves in check or risk ruin..."
Discipline Is Destiny is my fifth book from the author. I generally enjoy the content he produces, and I really enjoyed this book, as well.
I have to say that this book struck me a little bit differently than most other books I've read. Typically I find that most books open with a bang; delivering their best writing right up front, and then gradually lose steam as they progress... The writing here seemed to do the opposite; it started off a bit slow, and then got better as the book progressed.
While I usually make my way through a book fairly quickly and then move on to the next one, this one had me doing a bit of reflecting as I write this review...
There was some high-quality writing here, as well as some very valuable, actionable advice - for just about anyone; from the layperson, up to those in positions of power and influence. I'll likely give this one a second read at some point; if not a third...
Author Ryan Holiday is an American writer, public-relations strategist, bookstore owner and host of the podcast The Daily Stoic. He is a former director of marketing for American Apparel.
Ryan Holiday:
Discipline Is Destiny is written in a style that should be familiar to fans of the writer. It is also a similar length to his other books; the version I have clocked in at just a little over 320 pages.
Holiday opens the book with a somewhat decent intro, although I felt it was not quite as energetic and engaging as previous works of his.
The writing here consists mostly of a compilation of case studies from historically famous and prominent people, with Holiday drawing lessons for the reader from the lives of these people.
The writing in the book proper contains many lessons taken from ancient philosophy. Holiday drops many parables, quotes, and other assorted wisdom; mostly from Stoicism, but also Buddhism and other philosophical schools.
Holiday provides many examples of people who embody these lessons and virtues, and contrasts them against historical figures who did not. It's a format that he's used in previous books, and I feel that it worked here, too...
The book covers quite a lot of ground, and those unfamiliar with the author will likely find much of what he covers here novel.
However, I found that there was a decent bit of overlap in the writing and themes of this book, with the writing and themes of his other books. Which is not to say that it was a bad thing, per se...
Holiday drops these quotes, that sums up much of the book's thesis:
Some of the historical figures and lessons covered here by Holiday include:
Unfortunately, however, Holiday manages to include a few short snippets of his own personal politics into the book here for some reason; making a brief commentary on Donald Trump as well as Angela Merkel's refugee policy. This was a shame, especially considering his bit of writing in this very book about the virtue of not inserting one's political "hot takes", and weighing in on every current divisive political issue. This part is titled: "Silence Is Strength."
How ironic, LMAO... A small gripe; the rest of the writing here was very well done.
He closes the book with a great bit of writing, where he pulls back the curtain on his writing process, and shows the reader how the sausage is made. He talks about the struggles he had in putting this work together. There is some deep personal writing here, that was very relatable, and helped connect the author to his readers. It was a great addition to the book, IMO.
I'm including part of it here; mainly for my own future reference. I've covered it with a spoiler, for those not interested:
**********************
Discipline Is Destiny was a great short book.
I would easily recommend it to anyone interested.
5 stars, and a spot on my "favorites" shelf.
Discipline Is Destiny is my fifth book from the author. I generally enjoy the content he produces, and I really enjoyed this book, as well.
I have to say that this book struck me a little bit differently than most other books I've read. Typically I find that most books open with a bang; delivering their best writing right up front, and then gradually lose steam as they progress... The writing here seemed to do the opposite; it started off a bit slow, and then got better as the book progressed.
While I usually make my way through a book fairly quickly and then move on to the next one, this one had me doing a bit of reflecting as I write this review...
There was some high-quality writing here, as well as some very valuable, actionable advice - for just about anyone; from the layperson, up to those in positions of power and influence. I'll likely give this one a second read at some point; if not a third...
Author Ryan Holiday is an American writer, public-relations strategist, bookstore owner and host of the podcast The Daily Stoic. He is a former director of marketing for American Apparel.
Ryan Holiday:
Discipline Is Destiny is written in a style that should be familiar to fans of the writer. It is also a similar length to his other books; the version I have clocked in at just a little over 320 pages.
Holiday opens the book with a somewhat decent intro, although I felt it was not quite as energetic and engaging as previous works of his.
The writing here consists mostly of a compilation of case studies from historically famous and prominent people, with Holiday drawing lessons for the reader from the lives of these people.
The writing in the book proper contains many lessons taken from ancient philosophy. Holiday drops many parables, quotes, and other assorted wisdom; mostly from Stoicism, but also Buddhism and other philosophical schools.
“Love the discipline you know, and let it support you.”
~Marcus Aurelius
Holiday provides many examples of people who embody these lessons and virtues, and contrasts them against historical figures who did not. It's a format that he's used in previous books, and I feel that it worked here, too...
The book covers quite a lot of ground, and those unfamiliar with the author will likely find much of what he covers here novel.
However, I found that there was a decent bit of overlap in the writing and themes of this book, with the writing and themes of his other books. Which is not to say that it was a bad thing, per se...
Holiday drops these quotes, that sums up much of the book's thesis:
"We don’t need accomplishments to feel good or to be good enough. What do we need?
The truth: not much!
Some food and water. Work that we can challenge ourselves with. A calm mind in the midst of adversity. Sleep. A solid routine. A cause we are committed to. Something we’re getting better at.
Everything else is extra. Or worse, as history has shown countless times, the source of our painful downfall.."
"...Self-discipline is not just our destiny, it is our obligation.
To our potential.
To our country.
To our cause.
To our families.
To our fellow human beings.
To those who look up to us.
To those who come after us.
Because soon enough you will be truly tested—beyond the ordinary ways in which you have had to persist and resist on this journey toward your best self. Life will demand something greater, something bordering on heroic.
Your body, your mind, your spirit will have to align so that you might discover that you are capable of more than you thought possible. You will also be asked to give . . . more than you have ever had to give (or give up) before...
Some of the historical figures and lessons covered here by Holiday include:
Unfortunately, however, Holiday manages to include a few short snippets of his own personal politics into the book here for some reason; making a brief commentary on Donald Trump as well as Angela Merkel's refugee policy. This was a shame, especially considering his bit of writing in this very book about the virtue of not inserting one's political "hot takes", and weighing in on every current divisive political issue. This part is titled: "Silence Is Strength."
How ironic, LMAO... A small gripe; the rest of the writing here was very well done.
He closes the book with a great bit of writing, where he pulls back the curtain on his writing process, and shows the reader how the sausage is made. He talks about the struggles he had in putting this work together. There is some deep personal writing here, that was very relatable, and helped connect the author to his readers. It was a great addition to the book, IMO.
I'm including part of it here; mainly for my own future reference. I've covered it with a spoiler, for those not interested:
**********************
Discipline Is Destiny was a great short book.
I would easily recommend it to anyone interested.
5 stars, and a spot on my "favorites" shelf.
May 17, 2025
A collection of 2-3 page essays eerily similar to his weekly newsletter minus the advertisements for the stoic-themed trinkets sold there. I was hoping for more of an actual "book" book, but this contained enough insightful thoughts and suggestions for perception changes that I enjoyed reading it well enough.
3 Stoic Stars
3 Stoic Stars
September 25, 2022
This is the second book in the Stoic Virtues Series. I haven’t read the first one but I don’t think that this matters.
It is divided into three parts:
Part I: The Exterior (The Body)
Part II: The Inner Domain (The Temperament)
Part III: The Magisterial (The Soul)
Scattered through the book are examples of people who show evidence of temperance. They are a wide variety of people that includes Marcus Aurelius, John F Kennedy, Toni Morrison and Queen Elizabeth II. The format works as most chapters are quite small and it was easy to dip in and out.
Although I did find that I preferred to just keep on going as the content proved really interesting.
It is divided into three parts:
Part I: The Exterior (The Body)
Part II: The Inner Domain (The Temperament)
Part III: The Magisterial (The Soul)
Scattered through the book are examples of people who show evidence of temperance. They are a wide variety of people that includes Marcus Aurelius, John F Kennedy, Toni Morrison and Queen Elizabeth II. The format works as most chapters are quite small and it was easy to dip in and out.
Although I did find that I preferred to just keep on going as the content proved really interesting.
May 10, 2023
If you are looking for a typical motivational book (kick-in-the ass type of book) then this is a good book (as countless others)
The philosophical content and examples are way too shallow or an overinterpretation. Can't recommend.
The philosophical content and examples are way too shallow or an overinterpretation. Can't recommend.
January 30, 2023
Warning: I HATE this book.
I tried to demonstrate temperance in examining it but it’s really hard to do so when everything about this book fails. The writing and organization is cheap, lazy, and predictable. It feels like it was just a money grab by Ryan Holiday, who I imagine sat in his freshman philosophy class, read a passage by Socrates and thought: “this guy is famous. I bet I could be famous if I just regurgitate what he said poorly.” I assume that’s when he dropped out and started building his empire of bro’s.
Anyway, my criticisms, in addition to the crappy writing, are:
1. It’s contradictory throughout. Read one chapter in a vacuum. Fine. You’ll be inspired. Go any further and your brain will begin to circle trying to figure out which instruction you should use.
2. Do these tenants sound familiar? Yeah. They were postered on your elementary school classrooms. It’s a boring philosophy our culture uses to “inspire”, when ultimately it’s just a method of measurement that leads to subjectively discriminating others. You didn’t get promoted? That just means you didn’t “hustle, hustle, hustle” enough. But Brad over here did. . .
3. The examples are snapshots of individuals lives and how they demonstrated the virtue during one period. But it’s not told that way. In fact, if you read about many of them, you’ll find they regretted their behavior at least to some extent.
4. He never defines greatness, so I’m not sure why I should emulate those examples.
5. Homeboy DIDN’T EVEN CITE HIS WORK! He claims this is because it would take too much of the book, but come on, it’s probably because most of it is solid bull shit.
I tried to demonstrate temperance in examining it but it’s really hard to do so when everything about this book fails. The writing and organization is cheap, lazy, and predictable. It feels like it was just a money grab by Ryan Holiday, who I imagine sat in his freshman philosophy class, read a passage by Socrates and thought: “this guy is famous. I bet I could be famous if I just regurgitate what he said poorly.” I assume that’s when he dropped out and started building his empire of bro’s.
Anyway, my criticisms, in addition to the crappy writing, are:
1. It’s contradictory throughout. Read one chapter in a vacuum. Fine. You’ll be inspired. Go any further and your brain will begin to circle trying to figure out which instruction you should use.
2. Do these tenants sound familiar? Yeah. They were postered on your elementary school classrooms. It’s a boring philosophy our culture uses to “inspire”, when ultimately it’s just a method of measurement that leads to subjectively discriminating others. You didn’t get promoted? That just means you didn’t “hustle, hustle, hustle” enough. But Brad over here did. . .
3. The examples are snapshots of individuals lives and how they demonstrated the virtue during one period. But it’s not told that way. In fact, if you read about many of them, you’ll find they regretted their behavior at least to some extent.
4. He never defines greatness, so I’m not sure why I should emulate those examples.
5. Homeboy DIDN’T EVEN CITE HIS WORK! He claims this is because it would take too much of the book, but come on, it’s probably because most of it is solid bull shit.
October 9, 2022
On my desk I have a small medallion of the four stoic virtues: Courage, Wisdom, Justice and Discipline.
I have been tested in life physically and socially and found reserves of courage.
I value and seek wisdom, though I know I have far to go.
I try to act with Justice and have thought carefully upon the subject.
I am not, and have never been a disciplined person.
Discipline/Moderation/Temperance, however described is a value I admire greatly in others. Having worked in a military environment for the past decade, I see many examples of it regularly. Though even there, the self-disciplined shine through compared to those who merely accept the structure of others.
This is the second of Holiday's four books on the Stoic values. If you've read any of his work, you'll know they're an engaging mix of ancient and modern stories, emphasising the choices we all face, and weaving through a core set of stoic ideas. Holiday is at the forefront of the modern stoic-popularisers, though he's far from the 'stoic-bro' that you find online, and genuine scholars of stoicism such as Nancy Sherman seem to at least tolerate and respect his work.
Discipline is Destiny is a somewhat better book than the earlier 'Courage is Calling'. The stories are slightly longer, and there's a sense of organisation in how the book is developed. It is clear and compelling in its argument. The book takes more of a 'why you should' focus than a 'how you can', and that is fine. Holiday offers many suggestions, but he knows that the path for each person to develop discipline is necessarily distinct.
Speaking of, I found the Afterword quite moving as it relates Holiday's own struggles with the discipline to manage his many tasks (writing this book, being a father, running a small bookstore, a vibrant online presence). The 'rar-rar' tone is dropped for just long enough to acknowledge how hard discipline really is. Sure he acknowledges that throughout, there's always a clarity that the disciplined person is not a saint, they are not perfect, they do not always make the right judgement or keep their temper perfectly in check. But to see a direct expression of both the challenge and exhaustion of seeking to live slightly more virtuously, from someone I admire, was quite touching.
Personally, I will read all four of these books, and look forward to recommending them as a set to others. It's not an introduction to Stoicism, it's not really a book i'd just hand over on its own for someone wanting a more ordered life or to handle problems of focus at work or bad habits late at night. But as a modern expression of virtue, of a set of works thinking through what it means to lead a good life in these times, I believe Holiday's works are a unique and compelling cannon.
I have been tested in life physically and socially and found reserves of courage.
I value and seek wisdom, though I know I have far to go.
I try to act with Justice and have thought carefully upon the subject.
I am not, and have never been a disciplined person.
Discipline/Moderation/Temperance, however described is a value I admire greatly in others. Having worked in a military environment for the past decade, I see many examples of it regularly. Though even there, the self-disciplined shine through compared to those who merely accept the structure of others.
This is the second of Holiday's four books on the Stoic values. If you've read any of his work, you'll know they're an engaging mix of ancient and modern stories, emphasising the choices we all face, and weaving through a core set of stoic ideas. Holiday is at the forefront of the modern stoic-popularisers, though he's far from the 'stoic-bro' that you find online, and genuine scholars of stoicism such as Nancy Sherman seem to at least tolerate and respect his work.
Discipline is Destiny is a somewhat better book than the earlier 'Courage is Calling'. The stories are slightly longer, and there's a sense of organisation in how the book is developed. It is clear and compelling in its argument. The book takes more of a 'why you should' focus than a 'how you can', and that is fine. Holiday offers many suggestions, but he knows that the path for each person to develop discipline is necessarily distinct.
Speaking of, I found the Afterword quite moving as it relates Holiday's own struggles with the discipline to manage his many tasks (writing this book, being a father, running a small bookstore, a vibrant online presence). The 'rar-rar' tone is dropped for just long enough to acknowledge how hard discipline really is. Sure he acknowledges that throughout, there's always a clarity that the disciplined person is not a saint, they are not perfect, they do not always make the right judgement or keep their temper perfectly in check. But to see a direct expression of both the challenge and exhaustion of seeking to live slightly more virtuously, from someone I admire, was quite touching.
Personally, I will read all four of these books, and look forward to recommending them as a set to others. It's not an introduction to Stoicism, it's not really a book i'd just hand over on its own for someone wanting a more ordered life or to handle problems of focus at work or bad habits late at night. But as a modern expression of virtue, of a set of works thinking through what it means to lead a good life in these times, I believe Holiday's works are a unique and compelling cannon.
January 6, 2024
This truly is a book for life to re-read x infinitum. It is a morning and evening mantra. A rallying cry. A call to action.
The philosophical teachings within, have completely and utterly changed me and I'd like to think have turned me into a better human in mind, body, and soul for it. For the past couple of years I've been living in survival mode but I am becoming more and more healthy, self disciplined, focused, and tranquil then ever before. Embracing the stoic virtues as medicine and responsibility.
Incredibly grateful for Ryan's pursuit despite challenges and his own discipline in the process of writing this book. It lit the fire in my belly to pursue, despite odds. I'm sure it will light many others.
Here's looking at you 2024! Catch you on the flipside.
The philosophical teachings within, have completely and utterly changed me and I'd like to think have turned me into a better human in mind, body, and soul for it. For the past couple of years I've been living in survival mode but I am becoming more and more healthy, self disciplined, focused, and tranquil then ever before. Embracing the stoic virtues as medicine and responsibility.
Incredibly grateful for Ryan's pursuit despite challenges and his own discipline in the process of writing this book. It lit the fire in my belly to pursue, despite odds. I'm sure it will light many others.
Here's looking at you 2024! Catch you on the flipside.
January 14, 2025
What is the POINT of this book?
It’s just a bunch of quotes vaguely supported by long winded anecdotes of dubious accuracy. Holiday claims, for example, that Eisenhower had a restrained approach to foreign policy — you know, because Eisenhower definitely didn’t order to CIA to stage a coup d’état in Iran.
Of course, I doubt Holiday knows this. When I looked him up, I learned that he dropped out of college. It shows. He is one of many people who push for some mangled version of Stoicism despite lacking any philosophical credentials. This is not a guy who has OPINIONS on how to translate Zeno’s works from Ancient Greek, because he got all his quotes from Bartletts. This work falls under the umbrella of what Professor Massimo Pigiucci calls “Broicism.” Essentially, a bunch of inspirational speaker types reference the Stoics to intellectualize the pursuit of the hyper-“masculine” capitalistic ideal.
But this is mostly Broicism-lite. Holiday thinks Stoicism consists of getting the job done, prioritizing and focusing on important tasks, taking the occasional Power Nap, maintaining composure … nothing that goes beyond the scope of “adulting.” And if you’re like me and got this book to improve upon your self-discipline, you will learn nothing.
Holiday reaches his word count by copy-pasting a bunch of anecdotes about famous figures. The bro-ness shines through here — if you want to learn about sports statistics, he’s got you covered. As others noted, the examples can come across as contradictory and irrelevant.
If you’re trying to figure out how to balance full time work while studying for your Masters, I doubt you will be impressed that Queen Elizabeth II … was good at not voicing her political opinions. I mean, hooray? If you’re working nonstop because you would rather your money go to your heirs than to your cancer treatment, you MIGHT find Lou Gehrig’s story inspiring. I just felt baffled as to why Holiday is making an exemplar out of a guy who didn’t see his doctor when his illness began, considering how vital his body was to his career.
Oh, but make sure you take care of your body and rest, because this is also part of Discipline.
Perhaps most damningly, he references Angela Merkel — not to focus on her political acumen, but her WARDROBE. Maybe I should just be grateful that he included a few women in Part Whatever of The Broicist Manifesto.
Anyway — 2 stars because it’s the sort of mindless, vaguely inspirational word salad I listen to during busywork. If that’s its raison d’être, it succeeds.
It’s just a bunch of quotes vaguely supported by long winded anecdotes of dubious accuracy. Holiday claims, for example, that Eisenhower had a restrained approach to foreign policy — you know, because Eisenhower definitely didn’t order to CIA to stage a coup d’état in Iran.
Of course, I doubt Holiday knows this. When I looked him up, I learned that he dropped out of college. It shows. He is one of many people who push for some mangled version of Stoicism despite lacking any philosophical credentials. This is not a guy who has OPINIONS on how to translate Zeno’s works from Ancient Greek, because he got all his quotes from Bartletts. This work falls under the umbrella of what Professor Massimo Pigiucci calls “Broicism.” Essentially, a bunch of inspirational speaker types reference the Stoics to intellectualize the pursuit of the hyper-“masculine” capitalistic ideal.
But this is mostly Broicism-lite. Holiday thinks Stoicism consists of getting the job done, prioritizing and focusing on important tasks, taking the occasional Power Nap, maintaining composure … nothing that goes beyond the scope of “adulting.” And if you’re like me and got this book to improve upon your self-discipline, you will learn nothing.
Holiday reaches his word count by copy-pasting a bunch of anecdotes about famous figures. The bro-ness shines through here — if you want to learn about sports statistics, he’s got you covered. As others noted, the examples can come across as contradictory and irrelevant.
If you’re trying to figure out how to balance full time work while studying for your Masters, I doubt you will be impressed that Queen Elizabeth II … was good at not voicing her political opinions. I mean, hooray? If you’re working nonstop because you would rather your money go to your heirs than to your cancer treatment, you MIGHT find Lou Gehrig’s story inspiring. I just felt baffled as to why Holiday is making an exemplar out of a guy who didn’t see his doctor when his illness began, considering how vital his body was to his career.
Oh, but make sure you take care of your body and rest, because this is also part of Discipline.
Perhaps most damningly, he references Angela Merkel — not to focus on her political acumen, but her WARDROBE. Maybe I should just be grateful that he included a few women in Part Whatever of The Broicist Manifesto.
Anyway — 2 stars because it’s the sort of mindless, vaguely inspirational word salad I listen to during busywork. If that’s its raison d’être, it succeeds.
November 24, 2022
According to The American Time-Use Survey, 57% of Americans read zero books last year. Zero! That’s the highest the number’s ever been. What do we need? Reading evangelists. People who speak to digital worlds about the richness, depth, and wisdom offered in the printed world. Ryan Holiday is a Book Evangelist: he has a monthly book club, he owns indie bookshop The Painted Porch in Bastrop, Texas, and he seems to write a new book every year. Sometimes even two a year! Discipline is Destiny is his newest and it contains a deep slap of wisdom even in the Table Of Contents alone. Each opens into a short few pages that weaves together parables of people ranging from Stoic philosophers to athletes like Lou Gehrig to writers like Joyce Carol Oates. I wish the book had hyperlinks built in because there were so many people or stories I immediately wanted to read about in more detail. The emphasis on discipline is wonderful if you need a kick but if you’re already revving in fifth gear too much (*cough*) you might find it a bit stressful. So for me this is a great book to shake into the soup when I’m struggling to get going and a book to keep on the spice rack when I’m looking to chill or wind down. If you’re new to Ryan’s writing this is a great start. I’d put it up there with The Daily Stoic, which is my favorite of his.
March 21, 2023
This book was trash. In the spirit of its central subject I forced myself to finish it through gritted teeth. Apparently Holiday is writing one of these a year, and you can tell… He might have the discipline to write everyday, but that doesn’t mean what he produces is any good. Disappointing as I’ve liked some of his other books—but that’s okay, I’ll still keep reading that garbage.
October 8, 2022
Ryan Holiday is one of those life-changing writers. I received a review copy of The Obstacle Is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph when things were going well. A few years later, I found myself homeless. During that time, The Daily Stoic: 366 Meditations on Wisdom, Perseverance, and the Art of Living gave me insights I could use in how I thought about and acted in my situation.
All of that is a long introduction to say that Discipline is Destiny is Holiday in top form. Already as a result of reading this book, I've created a list of "Personal Operating Principles" which spell out what self-control looks like for me. I've ceased working two hours before bed. I'm speaking less (a challenge because my communication style is that of a storyteller). But I'm also being kinder at those times when I fail.
This book is one of Holiday's best. If you haven't read him before, it's a great place to start. If you have read him before, why haven't you ordered your copy of this already?
All of that is a long introduction to say that Discipline is Destiny is Holiday in top form. Already as a result of reading this book, I've created a list of "Personal Operating Principles" which spell out what self-control looks like for me. I've ceased working two hours before bed. I'm speaking less (a challenge because my communication style is that of a storyteller). But I'm also being kinder at those times when I fail.
This book is one of Holiday's best. If you haven't read him before, it's a great place to start. If you have read him before, why haven't you ordered your copy of this already?
January 29, 2023
Kanskje Holidays beste så langt.
Disiplin (temperence) som kardinaldyd er en forutsetning for de tre andre dydene, og det blir beskrevet veldig overbevisende i denne boken.
Blir en re-read ganske snart for å høste sitater👌🏻🙏🤓
Leses av alle, men spesielt av dem som får æren av å lede andre.
Disiplin (temperence) som kardinaldyd er en forutsetning for de tre andre dydene, og det blir beskrevet veldig overbevisende i denne boken.
Blir en re-read ganske snart for å høste sitater👌🏻🙏🤓
Leses av alle, men spesielt av dem som får æren av å lede andre.
March 26, 2023
Hats off to the author who makes the virtue of temperance sound punk rock and edgy.
So many inspiring short stories of people who were able to discipline the self towards a higher good. Queen Elizabeth, Churchill, Lou Gehrig, Toni Morrison.
"Discipline is not deprivation."
So many inspiring short stories of people who were able to discipline the self towards a higher good. Queen Elizabeth, Churchill, Lou Gehrig, Toni Morrison.
"Discipline is not deprivation."
May 10, 2023
Like most of Holiday's books, they serve as great reminders to things that most people already know. Doesn't ever go into much depth but rather skims over a lot of similar points. Regardless, is good and worth a read.
January 18, 2023
Starts off with the very original thesis that self discipline is important in becoming successful. Then describes a list famous individuals with a handful of cherry picked anecdotes.
November 5, 2025
0 stars for writing
1 star for premise
1 star for research: Ryan's works are always incredibly well researched.
1 star for impact
1 star for liking it
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I admire the heck out of this guy. He walks his talk and he keeps his head down and works. If he writes a book about Stoicism-I'm gonna buy it and read it.
1 star for premise
1 star for research: Ryan's works are always incredibly well researched.
1 star for impact
1 star for liking it
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I admire the heck out of this guy. He walks his talk and he keeps his head down and works. If he writes a book about Stoicism-I'm gonna buy it and read it.
November 15, 2022
So Close
Humans are creatures who are created to worship things.
Although some people find things like sportscars, lavash houses, and flashy fashion - money - others worship things like being famous or public figures like a celebrity or - in the case of Ryan, Marcus Aurelius.
He was so close! So much of Ryan's texts are so close to Christianity, following Jesus, but he misses the mark. It is actually quite heartbreaking.
I could see Ryan being one of my favorite (current) theologians, in the same breath as NT Wright or Timothy Keller.
Ryan has what it takes to do all this research and delve into Marcus' studies and thoughts as a theologian would.
Anyways, this book was good.
Very similar to his last one, Courage Is Calling: Fortune Favors the Brave
I found this book a tiny bit repetitive, but a good enough stoic philosophy book.
3.7/5
Humans are creatures who are created to worship things.
Although some people find things like sportscars, lavash houses, and flashy fashion - money - others worship things like being famous or public figures like a celebrity or - in the case of Ryan, Marcus Aurelius.
He was so close! So much of Ryan's texts are so close to Christianity, following Jesus, but he misses the mark. It is actually quite heartbreaking.
I could see Ryan being one of my favorite (current) theologians, in the same breath as NT Wright or Timothy Keller.
Ryan has what it takes to do all this research and delve into Marcus' studies and thoughts as a theologian would.
Anyways, this book was good.
Very similar to his last one, Courage Is Calling: Fortune Favors the Brave
I found this book a tiny bit repetitive, but a good enough stoic philosophy book.
3.7/5
January 13, 2023
This book is the literary equivalent of that viral video of Shia LaBeouf yelling "JUST DO IT" at the camera. Each chapter reads like a guest motivational speaker at a high school assembly, repetitively telling you how important it is in life to have behaviour x or habit y, all because a successful historical figure did and it's therefore required for success. There's not the slightest concern in the book for how you actually achieve any of them, and how you might balance different behaviours and habits - the undertone of the book is essentially "if you don't follow every single one of these instructions, then you will be a failure". Personal success and failure, by the way, is defined in that shallow, hyper-American way of thinking - of making it big and being publicly successful.
Despite what the blurb and cover art might suggest, this book has no meaningful link to the ancient philosophy of stoicism, or any philosophy for that matter. Rather, it is a brash, simple expression of that stereotypically American drive and ambition for success at all costs - "You gotta work, work, work! You gotta grind! The world owes you nothing! Not a moment to waste on rest!". Which isn't a negative thing and maybe that's up your alley if simple motivation is what you're after. But if you're after something that might help you with deeper introspections and thoughtful life advice, don't waste your time on this book.
Despite what the blurb and cover art might suggest, this book has no meaningful link to the ancient philosophy of stoicism, or any philosophy for that matter. Rather, it is a brash, simple expression of that stereotypically American drive and ambition for success at all costs - "You gotta work, work, work! You gotta grind! The world owes you nothing! Not a moment to waste on rest!". Which isn't a negative thing and maybe that's up your alley if simple motivation is what you're after. But if you're after something that might help you with deeper introspections and thoughtful life advice, don't waste your time on this book.
February 28, 2023
I knew just a few chapters into this book, it would earn 5 stars for me. Such an incredible read. Practicing stoicism is something that has always intrigued me, but my husband introduced me to Ryan Holiday and gosh I'm so glad he did. This book was such an inspiration to me, chapter after chapter. And each chapter was short, to make it easier to get through. There were so many principles and so much information to digest, but almost all of it hitting home, right where it needed to. Bottom line, being disciplined can change your life in so many ways. We live in a world of distraction. everywhere we look there is something begging for our attention. This makes it so hard to focus and so hard to be disciplined. But I finished this book with a completely new outlook going forward in my life. I have so many favorite quotes but this one stuck out the most to me.
"The person who has the upper hand of their soul, the person who can go without, the person who does not fear change or discomfort or a reversal of fortune? This person is harder to kill and harder to defeat. They are also happier, more well balanced, and in better shape. We must practice temperance now, in times of plenty, because none of us know what the future holds - only that plenty never lasts"
"The person who has the upper hand of their soul, the person who can go without, the person who does not fear change or discomfort or a reversal of fortune? This person is harder to kill and harder to defeat. They are also happier, more well balanced, and in better shape. We must practice temperance now, in times of plenty, because none of us know what the future holds - only that plenty never lasts"
April 5, 2023
This is a great reminder of why I don’t love self-help books.
This book is *literally* (just to reinforce, I am not using that word figuratively) a collection of good qualities to have and a few historical examples for each along with Holiday pumping you up. This may be the most superficial book I have ever read.
I’m sure some people will benefit from reading this, but the main issue here is that the author doesn’t provide specific, concrete examples in our daily lives of how we can improve our discipline gradually and, more importantly, REALISTICALLY.
Almost everyone knows what the right thing to do is. Saying it again isn’t likely to change things (although a reminder for the 1001st time may finally do the job, but it’s rare). Now, if he showed a plan of action of how we can implement all those beautiful qualities (with some data/scientific research to back it up), then this book would be very, very useful. But it’s just not. It’s common sense, shallow, and doesn’t teach you anything new other than random trivia about historical figures.
If you’re totally lost in life, PLEASE read this book. Otherwise, you’ll be better off reading something else.
This book is *literally* (just to reinforce, I am not using that word figuratively) a collection of good qualities to have and a few historical examples for each along with Holiday pumping you up. This may be the most superficial book I have ever read.
I’m sure some people will benefit from reading this, but the main issue here is that the author doesn’t provide specific, concrete examples in our daily lives of how we can improve our discipline gradually and, more importantly, REALISTICALLY.
Almost everyone knows what the right thing to do is. Saying it again isn’t likely to change things (although a reminder for the 1001st time may finally do the job, but it’s rare). Now, if he showed a plan of action of how we can implement all those beautiful qualities (with some data/scientific research to back it up), then this book would be very, very useful. But it’s just not. It’s common sense, shallow, and doesn’t teach you anything new other than random trivia about historical figures.
If you’re totally lost in life, PLEASE read this book. Otherwise, you’ll be better off reading something else.
February 19, 2023
Conflicted. TDLR; core messages are invaluable but falls down on the delivery.
So…many of the core principles and values covered in this book are hugely helpful when it comes to living a meaningful and fulfilled life. It’s an easy read which covers many central concepts in Stoicism in an accessible way but…and it’s a big BUT…this book is written in the most patronising tone imaginable. It’s unfortunate that the author seems to approach these valuable messages in a way that puts others down.
It’s written from the position that most people don’t live the stoic principles and values espoused (probably an accurate/fair perspective). It then continues to regularly state something to the effect of “do this so you’re better than everyone else.” Maybe I’m a sensitive snowflake but you can make the case that these principles and values aren’t currently the norm, that they could/should be, and that it would be hugely beneficial for humanity as a whole, without being a judge-y dickhead… maybe I’m expecting too much.
So…many of the core principles and values covered in this book are hugely helpful when it comes to living a meaningful and fulfilled life. It’s an easy read which covers many central concepts in Stoicism in an accessible way but…and it’s a big BUT…this book is written in the most patronising tone imaginable. It’s unfortunate that the author seems to approach these valuable messages in a way that puts others down.
It’s written from the position that most people don’t live the stoic principles and values espoused (probably an accurate/fair perspective). It then continues to regularly state something to the effect of “do this so you’re better than everyone else.” Maybe I’m a sensitive snowflake but you can make the case that these principles and values aren’t currently the norm, that they could/should be, and that it would be hugely beneficial for humanity as a whole, without being a judge-y dickhead… maybe I’m expecting too much.
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