Mujeres del Siglo XII: Eloisa, Leonor, Iseo y Algunas Otras

Dames du XIIe siècle #1

by Georges Duby

Hoy como ayer. La historia se repite. La mujer sigue siendo, para muchos hombres, un objeto deseable o desdenable segun la ocasion. Georges Duby, uno de los historiadores mas importantes del siglo XX, presenta en este libro una investigacion llevada a cabo sobre las mujeres del siglo XII en Francia: quienes eran, cual era su destino en la "brutal y refinada" sociedad feudal.

Genres: History, Nonfiction, Medieval, Medieval History, Historical

172 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1995

About the author

Georges Duby (7 October 1919 – 3 December 1996) was a French historian who specialized in the social and economic history of the Middle Ages.

Reviews

[Occhionelcielo]

Lo zio Georges lo sa bene che il mio tempo è il "tempo del mercante": non potrò mai avvicinare la sua sterminata erudizione.
Però si siede con me davanti al caminetto, mi offre l'Armagnac della sua cantina e, con semplicità ed acume, comincia a raccontare di alcune figure di donna. Alla fine riesce a trasmettermi alcuni concetti chiave della storia del Medioevo.
Non so come rendere l'idea: fascio di luce, velo squarciato, orizzonte all'uscita dl bosco...
So solo che, dopo tanti anni di indifferenza, riesco ad appassionarmi a certe produzioni che a suo tempo ritenevo lontane dalla mia sensibilità.

[Jodi]

Excellent source support (many of them French--as the text is translated from the French) for a difficult set of historical -- actual or fictional or apocryphal -- figures. The twelfth century doesn't have that many sources anyway, let alone those for women. The other plus, besides having the fresco of Eleanor of Aquitaine on the cover from the Chapel of Sainte-Radegone at Chinon, France, is how
Duby combines a readable narrative with background of the influence and importance of the women selected: Eleanor of Aquitaine, Mary Magdalen, Abbess Heloise, Iseult, Juette of Huy and Soredamors and Fenic .

[Martasek]

Kniha ukazuje pohled mužů na tehdejší ženy ve společnosti. Ženy jsou skutečné i smyšlené, přesto dokázali ovlivnit svět ovládaný muži. Některá více, jiná méně a každá jinak.
Kniha se zmiňuje i o tehdejším pojetí lásky a touze. Vše spojené s vírou.

[Nick]

This is a consideration by the eminent medieval historian of three remarkable women of the Twelfth Century (Eleanor of Aquitaine, Heloise, and the relatively-unknown Jute), one Biblical figure whose veneration increased substantially during that period, and the subjects of poems--Iseult and two figures from Chretien de Troyes' "Cliges."

Eleanor is of course the star attraction. Duby separates her from the modern subject of novels, and, for the most part, from the rumors generated during her life and after her death. That she was unusually strong and independent he has no doubt, supporting her sons against her father, and trying to escape in men's clothing. He attributes much of the rumor-mongering to that. He is somewhat dubious of charge of having an affair with her uncle in Antioch, but entertains the possibility of a liaison with Henry II's father. If the marriage with Henry II, the successful abduction, ever had a spark, it was extinguished thoroughly. Eleanor was an intelligent woman enmeshed a world of kings and nobles who spoke of her beauty but coveted her property. Duby notes at the end that, rather than judging her, he pities her. Still, it would have been useful to hear what he had to say about that strange book produced at her court by Andreas Capellanus.

I've always found Heloise's letters difficult to read (and Abelard's undigestible). Granted, the theological questions seem to be moot. But she prostrates herself erotically, only to renounce that when it is rejected (by her husband!) and prostrate herself before his theological parsing. Duby doubts that the letters are actually from her pen; they do seem a bit too well arranged, even the passion a bit performative.

The section on Mary Magdalen is revealing, especially given Gregory the Great's deliberate confusion of her with the prostitute who washes Jesus' feet. Duby notes that the Eastern Church never accepted that interpretation. Duby is especially interesting on Vezelay and how her cult was developed there in a bit of ecclesiastical entrepreneurship. Juette is perhaps the most fascinating, perhaps because least known. A widowed mother at eighteen, she embarked on a career of sanctity, first administering to lepers and then as a recluse. Duby as much as implies she was aiming to become an object of veneration after death, but that didn't happen.

At the end, Duby makes arguments that are hard to derive from the previous discussion: that the development of courtly love did not undermine marriage--to idolize the lord's wife honored him, presumably as the master of such beauty that is nevertheless chaste. He also makes the related argument that during the century society (at last in Francia) moved away from the Augustinian sense of women as weak but dangerous (a conjunction that has always seemed like an obtuse contradiction to me) and toward a masculine view of them as having value. "A few (men)... and a growing number, discovered them as objects and subjects of love.... In this way, women began imperceptibly to extricate themselves from the heaviest of the shackles in which they were bound by masculine power."

The odd thing is that this awakening freedom -- phrased awkwardly as "objects of love" is still predicated on a change in the male view of women.

Eleanor and Heloise would like a word.

[Idees Livres Mandarine]

Ce petit livre cache bien son jeu. c'est du lourd et du sérieux !! Son auteur Georges Duby un spécialiste, professeur du collège de France et ... membre de l'académie française. Pour moi, une vrai découverte et honte sur moi à part aliénor d'Aquiraine, Juette et Marie madeleine, je ne connaissais pas Iseut et Héloïse sans parler de Phénice !!
L'auteur ne retrace pas la vie de ces femmes mais essaye plutôt de définir leur rôle dans ce XIIe siècle. J'ai appris bcp de choses mais la lecture a été lente et il me faut maintenant digérer !!!

[Carmen]

Muy interesante este libro que no habla de manera detallada de la vida de Leonor, Eloísa, Magdalena y otras porque en realidad hay poca información histórica, más bien habla de cómo fueron percibidas por la sociedad. Reconoce que su investigación se basa en escritos y comentarios masculinos y que él también es hombre, por lo tanto le es imposible ponerse en su lugar.

[Juliette Kleemann]

Erudite and strictly research-based yet enjoyable to the lay history lover, Duby follows the traces of the evanescent women of the early medieval ages, the evolution of courtship and conjugal love in searching, in written accounts which was mostly male and religious.

[JaneJane))]

Je zde znát neuvěřitelný přehled autora ve středověkých souvislostech ... opravdu výborně sepsané.))

[Nataly Tiare]

(10/05/14)
El autor, en base a los documentos históricos y a la literatura que ha llegado hasta nuestros días, reconstruye la imagen que se tenía de las mujeres en el siglo XII, tratando de descubrir a partir de ello, su realidad. Cada capítulo está centrado en una mujer diferente -real o ficticia-. Interesante análisis y fácil de seguir, aunque el autor abusa de las preguntas retóricas.

[Basia Norén]

Very well researched, definitely worth a read.