Asclepius: The Perfect Discourse of Hermes Trismegistus

by Hermes Trismegistus, Clement Salaman (Editor)

The Asclepius is one of two philosophical books ascribed to the legendary sage of Ancient Egypt, Hermes Trismegistus, who was believed in classical and renaissance times to have lived shortly after Moses. The Greek original, lost since classical times, is thought to date from the second or third century AD. However, a Latin version survived, of which this volume is a translation.Like its companion, the Corpus Hermeticum, the Asclepius describes the most profound philosophical questions in the form of a conversation: the nature of the One, the role of the gods, the stature of the human being. Not only does this work offer spiritual guidance, but it is also a valuable insight into the minds and emotions of the Egyptians in ancient and classical times.

Genres: Philosophy, Religion, Occult, Esoterica, Spirituality, Alchemy, Nonfiction

144 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1996

About the author

Hermes Trismegistus (Ancient Greek: Ἑρμῆς ὁ Τρισμέγιστος, "thrice-greatest Hermes"; Latin: Mercurius ter Maximus) is the purported author of the Hermetic Corpus, a series of sacred texts that are the basis of Hermeticism.

Alternate names: Hermès Trismégiste, Hermes Trismegistro, Hermes Trimegistro, Hermes Trismegisto, Hermes Trimegisto.

Reviews

[Khalid Abdul-Mumin · Rating 4 out of 5]

For what appears to the eyes delights us, and what is unseen makes us mistrust. To those who have eyes, evil is most evident and the Supreme Good is hidden. For the Supreme Good has no form and leaves no mark. Thus it is like to itself, but unlike all else. What is unembodied, can never be seen by a body.

A great read about Hermitic philosophy and belief systems that's seen a marvelous translation in which the essence and story of the teachings glare through.

Highly recommended for people with these types of inquisitive proclivities.

"That Light whose smile kindles the universe, That Beauty in which all things work and move, That Benediction which the eclipsing Curse Of birth can quench not, that sustaining Love Which, through the web of being blindly wove By man and beast and earth and air and sea, Burns bright or dim, as each are mirrors of The fire for which all thirst, now beams on me, Consuming the last clouds of cold mortality."

- Shelley
Adonais

[John Kulm · Rating 5 out of 5]

I'm currently reading all Hermetic literature. These texts are around 1800 years old and have some very contemporary spiritual ideas. Along with Asclepius and the Corpus Hermeticum, I'm finding several others, more obscure but accessible thanks to Kindle. Hermetic psychology relates closely to Jungian psychology (probably synonymous), and Hermeticism is at the foundation of alchemy, developed parallel to gnosticism, and has some very pantheistic ideas. I've always considered pantheism to be a proper belief system for an atheist. If god is in everything that is, then god disappears into the everything so that, depending on how we view the universe in a given moment, god either is all, or all is all there is. Am I making sense? The hour is late and I need sleep!
Adding a note at a later date. Notice Goodreads lists the title as Secret Discourse, but the actual title says Perfect Discourse. The archaic meaning of "perfect" is actually "complete." So it isn't a boastful title, but is descriptive.

[Callum · Rating 3 out of 5]

intro>text

[Felipe · Rating 5 out of 5]

An excellent content regarding the instructions given by Hermes Trismegistus to Asclepius, Tat and Hammon on the account of how the Cosmos manifests itself through God, this book has been originally written in Greek and translated to Latin a few centuries later.

In spite of being a non-christian form of Gnosticism, Hermeticism proposes a very clear approach regarding the formation of the Universe, the preservation of Nature and the endowment of the human consciousness as a way to access the higher spheres of knowledge that may express themselves through Eternity.

Much of what is brought forth may easily relate to other philosophical schools, such as those from India, but it certainly reveals itself as a simple and, yet, in-depth questioning about the so-called spiritual world, how it manifests and its influences until the human being develops his virtues - improving his conditions - and give up on his vices and tendencies.

Divided in topics, this soothing text will certainly help people accomplish their deeds not only because of its message, but also for its character.

[Marlene M. Oaks · Rating 5 out of 5]

Fascinating

Hermes is said to have influenced people who have influenced me, such as Meister Eckhart and Ralph Waldo Emerson. So I decided to read a bit about him and began with this little book. I plan to reread it several times as well as other books on the subject. I find myself in alignment with him on many points and yet to understand other points. I guess, along with Jacob Needleman, I've been on a long quest to find what has been lost from Christianity (hence my blog title). I find Hermes intriguing and well worth serious and contemplative reading.

[Jordan · Rating 5 out of 5]

I'd be lying if I said a portion of the dialog did not go over my head because it certainly did. However, this Hermetic text contains timeless wisdom that can be pondered on for centuries to come. Furthermore, it is a great insight into what everyday people would have read around 300AD. Within the introduction, Salaman mentions that this text influenced transcendentalist, Ralph Waldo Emerson. If you are familiar with his work such as Self-Reliance you can definitely see the similarities between the two in Section 30.
The biggest standout to me from the dialogues is Section 24 entitled 'Disaster foretold' in which Hermes discusses to Asclepius the fate of Eygpt and tells a prophecy which feels like he is speaking directly to the modern-day reader. It is difficult to articulate, but, Hermes speaks of Eygpt as being forgotten and desolate with the gods withdrawing to Heaven in which humans will eventually become ignorant of the presence and significance.
If you wish to hear this section (because I don't give it justice) check out journalist Graham Hancocks reading here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvzZ5...

[John A · Rating 5 out of 5]

Favorite quotes:

"The first God is the Lord of Eternity, the second is the cosmos, and the third is Man. God is the author of the cosmos and those that dwell therein. He is the governor of all things, together with Man, who is the governor of what has been compounded. Because Man looks to the whole, which is the proper object of his love and care, it follows that he is a jewel of the cosmos, as is the cosmos to him. Because of his divine composition, it seems Man has been called a world, but the Greek "cosmos" is more accurate. Man knows himself and he knows the cosmos, so that he remembers what is fitting for his role and recognizes what is useful for him and what he should serve. While giving the greatest praises and thanks to God and reverencing his image, he is yet aware that he himself is the second image of God; for there are two images of God: the cosmos and Man. Hence it comes about that Man is a union of different parts. In part he is composed from soul and consciousness, spirit and reason by which he is divine. By these superior elements he seems able to ascend to heaven, but by the worldly part which consists of fire, earth, water, and air he remains mortal upon earth lest he leave bereft and wasted all those things committed to his care. Thus mankind has been created in part divine and in part mortal, consisting of body." - Hermes Trismegistus, The Perfect Discourse

"For the knowledge of God is to be attained by a godlike concentration of consciousness. Such knowledge comes like a rushing river tumbling in flux from above to the depths beneath. By its headlong rush it outruns any effort we make as hearers, or even as teachers...

The cosmos has been prepared by God as a receptacle for forms of all kinds. Nature, then, impresses forms on matter by means of the four elements, and leads all things to heaven so that they will be pleasing in the sight of God." - Hermes Trismegistus, The Perfect Discourse

"For as the world is the work of God, he who carefully maintains its beauty, and even increases it, joins his own work with the will of God, since by dedication of his daily labour and care he gives order to the beauty which God created by his divine will... That when we have completed our term of service, discharged from our worldly duties, and have been freed from the bonds of mortality, God should restore us to our higher, that is divine nature, free from blemish and inviolable." - Hermes Trismegistus, The Perfect Discourse

"All beings dependent on the world above are divided into individual forms... Thus the archetype of gods will create from itself forms of gods; and so similarly with the archetype of daemons, of men, of birds and the archetypes of all things which exists in the cosmos. They will all generate forms similar to themselves...

...insofar as they belong to their archetypes the forms are immortal... the individual conforms to the character of its archetype. But although all these archetypes are immortal, not all individual forms are. IN the case of the divine beings both the archetype itself and the individuals are immortal... Thus the individual forms are mortal, the archetypes are not: man is mortal, humankind immortal." - Hermes Trismegistus, The Perfect Discourse

"Those which are created by gods, by daemons or by humans are the forms which bear the greatest similarity to their archetypes. It is impossible for bodies to be fashioned without the assent of the gods, or for individual forms to receive their shapes without the help of daemons, nor can being without a soul be planted and cultivated without human beings. When any of the daemons pass from their own class into another form, and are perhaps joined to a form of the divine class, they are considered similar to gods because of their proximity and association.

...On the same principle someone who, through divinely inspired religion, has joined himself to the gods in mind comes close to the gods. For it is by means of mind that a man becomes one with the gods, and similarly a man becomes one with the daemons who attaches himself to them. It follows that those beings are indeed human who are content with the middle position of their class, and all other human beings will be similar to the class belonging to the individuals with whom they associate" - Hermes Trismegistus, The Perfect Discourse

"Having such power and such goodness He willed that there be another who could contemplate that being whom he had made from Himself. Therefore He made humankind to be an imitator of His reason and loving care. The will of God is the greatest perfection since willing and accomplishing are complete in the same instant of time. Thus He made human beings of His own essence... Thus God formed human beings of both spirit and body, that is, of both eternal and mortal nature, so that being thus formed they could do justice to their twofold origin: they could wonder at and adore the celestial, while they could also care for and manage the things on earth." - Hermes Trismegistus, The Perfect Discourse

"One may say that the single substance within all individual forms, within each and everyone, is the substance of the cosmos. Thus the cosmos nourishes bodies, and the spirit nourishes souls; but understanding is nourished by that heavenly gift by which alone mankind may be happy; not all men, but only a few: those whose mind is such that they can receive so great a benefit... understanding, once it is joined with the human soul becomes a single substance through a total fusion, so that human kinds of this kind are never impeded by the delusions of darkness. Hence it is rightly said that such understanding is the soul of the gods, but I say not of all the gods, but only of the great or principle ones, and of these only the original." - Hermes Trismegistus, The Perfect Discourse.

"Then to men, tired of living, the cosmos will no longer seem an object of wonder or something to be reverenced.

Nothing better was, is or ever will be seen than the goodness of this whole cosmos, yet it will become a danger and a burden to men. Because of this people will no longer love, but come to despite it: this inimitable work of God, this glorious creation, this perfection formed with such variety of images, this instrument of God's will, who in his work gives favour without partiality. This cosmos, a world of many forms, brings everything to unity, the unity of the all. It is a cosmos which can be revered, praised and finally loved by those able to see it. The dark will indeed be preferred to the light, and death thought better than life. No one will have any regard for heaven and a spiritual person will be deemed mad, and a materialist, wise. An angry man will be considered strong and the most evil regarded as good.

'All the teaching about the soul that I have explained to you is that the soul is born immortal or expects to attain immortality. This teaching will not only be laughed at, but considered an illusion. It will be held as a capital offence, believe me, for a man to have given himself over to reverence of the divine mind. New rights will be created. There will be new laws. Nothing holy, nothing religious, nothing worthy of heaven or the gods which inhabit it, will either be heard or believed.

'How grievous will be the withdrawal of gods from men! Only the evil angels will remain. Mingling with humanity they will force these wretches into all the evils of violence: wars, robbery, fraud and all those things which are contrary to the nature of souls. In those days the earth will not be stable, nor will the sea be navigable. Heaven will not be traversed by the stars, for the course of the stars will cease in the sky. Every divine voice will of necessity be stopped. The fruits of the earth will wither, and the land will no longer be fertile. The very air will hang heavy in lifeless torpor." - Hermes Trismegistus, The Perfect Discourse

"Thus it is that evil remains among the people through the lack of wisdom and knowledge of what really exists. For it is from the intelligence of divine reason, through which all things are constituted, that contempt for the vices of the whole world is born, and this contempt is also their cure. But through continuing lack of experience and absence of knowledge all the vices grow strong and do irreparable damage to the soul which, being infected by them, swells up as if from poison, except in the case of those who have found the sovereign remedy: knowledge and intelligence. Therefore, even if all this will be of use only to a few people, it is worth pursuing and finishing the discussion as to why the deity considered human beings alone worthy to receive from Him His own intelligence and knowledge.

So listen. After God the Father and Lord had brought forth the gods he formed man, in part from the corruption of matter, but in equal part from the divine. The imperfections of matter than remained mixed within bodies, together with other imperfections derived from the food and nourishment which we take through necessity, as do all living beings. It is therefore inevitable that the desires arising from greed, and other vices of the mind steal into human souls.

As for the gods, they are composed of the purest part of Nature, and they do not need the supports of reason and knowledge. For them immortality and the vigour of eternal youth are themselves intelligence and knowledge. Yet lest they should ever become separated from these, to safeguard the unity of God's design He established the rule of Necessity drawn up as a law in accordance with eternal law. Of all living beings He recognized man alone as having reason and knowledge through which he can turn away and distance from himself the vices of the body. He presented man with the hope of immortality and the will to reach it. So God made man both good, and capable of immortality, because of his two natures: the divine and the mortal. Through God's will it was ordained that man was thus made superior both to the gods, who are formed only of an immortal nature, and to all other creatures. Because of this man united to the gods in kinship and he therefore worships them through religion and through purity of mind. For their part the gods look down on all human affairs with tender love and take care of them." - Hermes Trismegistus, The Perfect Discourse

[Stephen · Rating 4 out of 5]

By Clement Salaman published in 2007 is a short 103 pages with the first 52 pages serving as a table of contents , illustrations, introduction as well as translators note. Given under the guise of a secret discourse from a teacher to 3 students telling them that he has ancient secrets that have been kept hidden because one does not toss pearls to swine but to only those ready to receive such instruction.

The discourse covers heady subjects on the cosmos and man's place in it and has Eschatological predictions for the end times stemming from a break down in society, not unlike the more detailed descriptions that can be found in the Bible, or in the 8th Century BC Myth of "Erra and Ishum" by Kabt-ilani-Marduk or that found in the Markandeya's long talk to King Yudhishthira found in "The Mahabharata Book 3: Vana Parva.

Of note was this simple passage. "Time on earth is marked by the quality of the air and the variation of heat and cold, but celestial time by the return of the constellations to the same places in the course of their circuits." Would this be knowledge of the Presession of the Equinox's, known today as axial precession? That would indeed be a wonder if they knew about the near 26,000 year circuit of the constellations in the sky. Pretty amazing since we are traveling in that parade. Currently credited to discovery in 129 BC by the Greek astronomer Hipparchus but there are strong indicators he wasn't the first.

Similar cycles can be seen in use in the Zend Avesta and mention has been found in certain Vedic texts of them recording new autumn stars every 700 or so years, with the first star named being Adita, our Pollux which would of made that date circa 6,200 BC. One author wanted to declare the goddess of infinity as a seer, which implied an ancient astronomer, obviously the first so named, but an obvious demotion from being the mother of all gods. His book didn't get an IBCN. Perhaps as result of the British at the Royal Society of Science still withholding favors since their dust up with Tilak which meant the Queen and the East Indian Tea Company were behind it, or the Indian's themselves because Mother goddess is an oh so much higher honor than first astronomer. Likely both collaborated to keep the book from gathering notoriety , but it can still be found on Archive dot Org under the title of Prehistoric Lunar Astronomy under the name S. B. Roy. Anyway, after Adita the succeeding autumn stars were named after kings, Daksha, Rudra, & Manu who shared the distinction with the god Prajapati and with that, each became an era in ancient Vedic histories. But I could be confounding things as I take it from memory and there's much more that goes into it, so find the book.

Now back to Hermes Trismegistus. It's possible he was speaking of something more short and simple, like a yearly cycle, but it seems an odd way to phrase such and such would be no big secret. More likely he had access or knew about the ancient star charts of the Chaldeans or the Ancient Egyptians themselves were keeping their own as there is talk on the internets of finding an ancient observatory in Egypt this year, so it's possible they likely shared what they knew and maybe even wrote it down. Unfortunately a lot got burned up in the fire at the library of Alexandria or it could of gone up in another library fire. Seems to have been a lot of that back then and even today. And if they had really old records, well those may of not survived King Unas and King Teti, but no one wants to talk about that, Divine Right of Kings to Rule and all.

Meanwhile, dating of this book can be confusing with dates going back to a few hundred years before Christ to dates bringing it back to the time of Moses. The only thing certain would be not before the original Asclepius was defied as a god as the Asclepius in this book is described as his son, figuratively or actual. Best to stick with during the Ptolemaic Period but who really knows now?

Over all it was an interesting book and seems to have had a lot of readers. More detailed descriptions of things talked in the review can be found in detail in various Vedic Upanishads and to a smaller extent in some of Gnostic books found in the Nag Hammadi Scriptures though I'm sure others have found other places as well. Also this book is apparently a condensed version of a larger book which has spawned more books. Maybe one day I'll have time to find such and dig deeper. Others have. 5 stars for the brevity alone and thank goodness it wasn't me writing the book or it would have been War and Peace and then we could skip shelving it in a library when any fire would do just fine.

[Rob Chappell · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is an English translation of a Hermetic tractate preserved in Latin but originally composed in Greek, sometime during the first three centuries of the Common Era. Hermes Trismegistus (the Greek version of Thoth, the divine patron of learning and writing in ancient Egyptian religion) is discoursing with his disciples Asclepius (the Greek version of the Egyptian polymath Imhotep), Tat, and Ammon. Topics range widely, from cosmology (as it was then understood) to metaphysics, along with a few hymns to the Supreme God and some reflections on the human condition and the ultimate fate of the world (a happy ending with a new beginning!). The teachings given in the discourses are a blend of Abrahamic, Egyptian, Greek, and Mesopotamian faith traditions, as they were practiced and taught in Alexandria, Egypt, some 2000 years ago (and perhaps earlier -- the Egyptian elements in the Hermetic material may very well be much older).

I enjoyed reading this book because I've been studying the Western Esoteric Tradition for over half of my lifetime, and this text is a sterling example of the "perennial philosophy" that underlies so many of the faith traditions in the ancient and modern worlds. The Hermetic worldview is set forth in a clear, concise, and logical manner, with an emphasis on engaging both the heart and the mind in worshipful awe of the Creator. It's easy to see why the Abrahamic religions "adopted" Hermes Trismegistus into their "Golden Chain" of sages and saints who knew and loved God without having had any firsthand knowledge of the Abrahamic religions during their own lifetimes.

[Scott Knight · Rating 5 out of 5]

As is the case with this book's sister text, The Way of Hermes (same translators), I found this translation to be clear, concise, and readable for a modern audience. It includes a lengthy exegetical introduction, which I appreciated; it helps to regain context before delving into the translated text because, while brief, it only espies intensely complex esoteric ideas which one could contemplate for a lifetime.

[Andrew Martins · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book is a must read for any student of Hermeticism. Though if you are new to the subject I would recommend reading an introduction book first. I recommend "The Hermetica: The List Wisdom of the Pharaohs by Tim Freke and Peter Gandy". Ascelpius is a poetic and moving text that really gives the reader a deeper understanding of the teachings of Hermes Trismegistus.

[Brian Cham · Rating 4 out of 5]

This text is a bit better than the main Corpus Hermeticum because it's far more coherent. It explores a simple pantheistic view of the cosmos and our souls as spiritually linked to it. It's generic enough to apply to readers of all cultures and time periods because it doesn't have the classical baggage of the other Hermetic texts.

[Lisa · Rating 3 out of 5]

In the introduction this slim book was referred to as a sister volume to Corpus Hermeticus. I would agree. The voice emanating from this translation is like the later recorded parts within Corpus Hermeticus. I did not hear any phrases or concepts from the Chaldean Oracles within Perfect Discourse as I did with the older entries within Corpus Hermeticus.

What takes place within Perfect Discourse is post creation. It is N exploration of humanity's place within creation.

[Bonnie Kruse · Rating 5 out of 5]

Interesting

Lots to think about, a lot of it made sense and some was over my head. Reading things such as this (things concerning the nature of all) from all over the world helps to piece together certain bits to have greater understanding and I say this book was valuable.

[Miranda Maria · Rating 3 out of 5]

Insightful to a certain extent, but I wasn't as captivated as I thought I would be. It didn't really catch nor keep my attention much, I ended up reading it as an educational paper more than a spiritual text, which made it a little boring.

[Ruben · Rating 3 out of 5]

Cool to see such a historic perspective. Also liked the long introduction telling about the books' history. The text itself is hard to read and kinda dull. The predictions about Egypt are wild though.

[Jonathon Yager · Rating 5 out of 5]

Required reading

Easy to read
Thought provoking
Illuminated
Bed time story
Intuitive
As above so below principles laid out in a solid groundwork