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Dare the School Build a New Social Order? (text only) 1st (First) edition by G. S. Counts
Dare the School Build a New Social Order? (Arcturus Paperbacks; AB 143) [Paperback]George S. Counts (Author)
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First published November 1, 1978
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About the author
George S. Counts
26 books2 followersGeorge Sylvester Counts (1889–1974) was an American educator
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Displaying 1 - 14 of 14 reviews
March 1, 2011
WOW.
If this is what progressives are reading I am deeply worried, but not shocked. I picked this up from AU when they were giving away old books for free.
This book, contains open praise for the "democratization" of the New Deal and the Soviet system, especially it's education system. Counts advocates that schools intentionally reform society by inculcating kids into socialist/progressive/democratic values. Democratic economic regulation is required to protect the public interest, and children should be tought this as a fact from an early age. Teachers unions should be crucial in spearheading this change.
What he calls "child centered" schooling is bad. We should instead have social or community centered schooling. He treats the possibility that he is advocating indoctrination as a non-issue. "Molding" is the softer word he uses. He believes that we should mold our kids into Socialists because our time requires it. We mold our kids into baseball fans and people who clean their rooms, this is just the same thing. If we didn't mold our kids into anything, they would be dull and mediocre he claims. Besides, we have always molded our children according to what the social needs are. We previously molded them into hunters, farmers, etc. Today's social needs require a population of collectivists, hence we should mold them into collectivsts. This is opposed to the current scenario where our kids only learn to participate in "the struggle for private gain" which leads to a feeling of isolation, and the continued degradation of society.
I am amazed by the ability of Counts to pack an ungodly number of logical and economic fallacy into a mere 53 pages.
He is explicitly anti individualist, anti laissez faire, anti-anarchism, and anti-emergent order. Capitalism is "faith in providence" which must be replaced by "careful planning". Individualism is already dead, and we must choose between either fascistic collectivism or democratic collectivism. He believes that we live in a post-scarcity society, so that capitalists have no excuse for gross wealth inequalities. It is government's job to eliminate economic inequalities. Right now we are being "victimized and molded by the machines of industrialism". We need socially minded people commanding that machine, not people interested in private gain. Again he is open about all of this and open about the viewpoint that schools should teach it from an early age.
Worse yet, Counts realizes and acknowledges that what he is proposing entails vast curtailments of personal freedom--- and supports it anyway!
He cant really make up his mind on the early American republic. sometimes he says that their ideals of individualism and laissez faire are outmoded and need to be discarded in favor of collectivist (his word, not mine) ideas fit for an industrial age. At other times he contrasts the democratic principles of the early republic with the environment raping, society destroying neo-feudalism of laissez faire capitalism that has recently emerged with the industrial era.
The one thing I agree with him about is that schools inherently teach with an ideological slant. Instead of pretending this doesn't exist, teachers and schools should be open about their biases. (Gonzo pedagogy anyone?) However this is not nearly enough to make up for the absolutely dreadful ignorance of the rest of it.
One star. Shelved as humor.
If this is what progressives are reading I am deeply worried, but not shocked. I picked this up from AU when they were giving away old books for free.
This book, contains open praise for the "democratization" of the New Deal and the Soviet system, especially it's education system. Counts advocates that schools intentionally reform society by inculcating kids into socialist/progressive/democratic values. Democratic economic regulation is required to protect the public interest, and children should be tought this as a fact from an early age. Teachers unions should be crucial in spearheading this change.
What he calls "child centered" schooling is bad. We should instead have social or community centered schooling. He treats the possibility that he is advocating indoctrination as a non-issue. "Molding" is the softer word he uses. He believes that we should mold our kids into Socialists because our time requires it. We mold our kids into baseball fans and people who clean their rooms, this is just the same thing. If we didn't mold our kids into anything, they would be dull and mediocre he claims. Besides, we have always molded our children according to what the social needs are. We previously molded them into hunters, farmers, etc. Today's social needs require a population of collectivists, hence we should mold them into collectivsts. This is opposed to the current scenario where our kids only learn to participate in "the struggle for private gain" which leads to a feeling of isolation, and the continued degradation of society.
I am amazed by the ability of Counts to pack an ungodly number of logical and economic fallacy into a mere 53 pages.
He is explicitly anti individualist, anti laissez faire, anti-anarchism, and anti-emergent order. Capitalism is "faith in providence" which must be replaced by "careful planning". Individualism is already dead, and we must choose between either fascistic collectivism or democratic collectivism. He believes that we live in a post-scarcity society, so that capitalists have no excuse for gross wealth inequalities. It is government's job to eliminate economic inequalities. Right now we are being "victimized and molded by the machines of industrialism". We need socially minded people commanding that machine, not people interested in private gain. Again he is open about all of this and open about the viewpoint that schools should teach it from an early age.
Worse yet, Counts realizes and acknowledges that what he is proposing entails vast curtailments of personal freedom--- and supports it anyway!
He cant really make up his mind on the early American republic. sometimes he says that their ideals of individualism and laissez faire are outmoded and need to be discarded in favor of collectivist (his word, not mine) ideas fit for an industrial age. At other times he contrasts the democratic principles of the early republic with the environment raping, society destroying neo-feudalism of laissez faire capitalism that has recently emerged with the industrial era.
The one thing I agree with him about is that schools inherently teach with an ideological slant. Instead of pretending this doesn't exist, teachers and schools should be open about their biases. (Gonzo pedagogy anyone?) However this is not nearly enough to make up for the absolutely dreadful ignorance of the rest of it.
One star. Shelved as humor.
May 26, 2020
This book begins with a manipulative forward written by some current psycho who wants to prepare the reader to agree with the book. The forward, summarized, says, “Smart and good people will agree with this book.”
Then the book. It’s horrifying. It appeals to emotion and has no logical reasoning whatsoever. It is super repetitive. The whole book could be a few sentences - the rest of the book is just emotional trigger words to get you to agree with him.
Here is what this book has to say: “Let's brainwash the teachers into brainwashing the children that socialism is good. Then we will all be socialists and socialism will finally work. Everyone will think they are happy because we will have brainwashed them to believe they are happy. Go teachers! Be brave! Embrace change! Brainwash! Socialism!
He never addresses that socialism has never worked and has led to mass genocides wherever it has been tried. He never addresses that socialism halts human progress where ever it has been implemented. He never addresses the inherent problems with socialism — that it rewards the wrong behaviors, punishing the best and brightest and turning them into slaves for the worst and weakest.
No villain thinks he's the bad guy. This scary dude, and the scary dude who who wrote the forward, think they are nice men making you do what they knows is best for you.
Then the book. It’s horrifying. It appeals to emotion and has no logical reasoning whatsoever. It is super repetitive. The whole book could be a few sentences - the rest of the book is just emotional trigger words to get you to agree with him.
Here is what this book has to say: “Let's brainwash the teachers into brainwashing the children that socialism is good. Then we will all be socialists and socialism will finally work. Everyone will think they are happy because we will have brainwashed them to believe they are happy. Go teachers! Be brave! Embrace change! Brainwash! Socialism!
He never addresses that socialism has never worked and has led to mass genocides wherever it has been tried. He never addresses that socialism halts human progress where ever it has been implemented. He never addresses the inherent problems with socialism — that it rewards the wrong behaviors, punishing the best and brightest and turning them into slaves for the worst and weakest.
No villain thinks he's the bad guy. This scary dude, and the scary dude who who wrote the forward, think they are nice men making you do what they knows is best for you.
December 7, 2008
I would not frequently use the term "fascinating" to describe a professional reading in curriculum/education theory, but this collection of three speeches delivered by Counts are more than fascinating. Add timeless, thought provoking, and at times, unsympathetically reproachful to those of us who consider ourselves progressive educators and parents.
The relevance to today's economic, political, and educational issues, which were first raised by Counts in 1932, then again in the 1978 preface of this edition, are uncanny, and a bit disturbing. The preface writer (Wayne J. Urban) does not believe, in 1978, that Counts should be labeled prophetic. However, we might want to reconsider this statement now that another 30 years have passed and, notwithstanding a few outdated terms circa the industrial revolution (i.e. replace "machinery" with "technology"), this book still reads fresh. If Counts was not a prophet, then I would definitely grant him the title of visionary.
In the 1930's Counts was actively denouncing the "evils" of the free market (i.e. a few very wealthy creating unwarranted recession for the masses) and how unregulated overindulgence and greed had lead to environmental destruction, energy crises, poor agricultural practices, hunger and starvation, mass unemployment, political corruption, and basically, the unraveling of the American Dream. His call to action was based on the need for educators to help prepare America's youth to combat these social injustices in an ever changing, technically advanced, and global society. Hmm, sound familiar?
Educators, he explained, must be professionally and powerfully organized so that they may demand the right and the autonomy to create appropriate curriculum for their students. Above all, educators must be willing to stand strong in the face of opposition by politicians, business leaders, and the few elite local decision makers, and be able to thoughtfully articulate and argue their positions. After all, Counts himself was accused repeatably of being a communist (which he was not) and a socialist (which he was) but continued to unabashedly defend the rights of the "masses" in a democracy.
At first I was a bit dismayed after finishing this book. I kept wondering "why after 70+ years are we still dealing with the same issues in our educational institutions and society as a whole" and "why can't the teaching profession secure the autonomy and power needed to effectively educate our students?"
However, Counts' message is also inspiring. For example, I found hope in idea that the truly "core" need of education, or the "why" we teach has not changed much, if at all, in the last 70 years; even when the content, or the "what" we teach can and should be organic and change continuously depending on cultural and technical needs of current society.
I found myself in line with Counts' belief that in the classroom teachers should not act as if they are unbiased, unfeeling, and unchanging members of society. Students, he said, should not be sheltered from adult situations and moreover teachers should in fact model how they make decisions based on their experiences, education, spiritual, and political beliefs. In this way, the teacher help create a socially and politically aware classroom where students learn (in one of many settings) how adults function productively, ethnically, and compassionately in the world outside the school.
To achieve such an environment, Counts believes that educators should not have to teach a dictated curriculum formulated by economists, business leaders, politicians, and the elite local "few", who do not have personal, in depth knowledge of the needs of their classroom community.
The relevance to today's economic, political, and educational issues, which were first raised by Counts in 1932, then again in the 1978 preface of this edition, are uncanny, and a bit disturbing. The preface writer (Wayne J. Urban) does not believe, in 1978, that Counts should be labeled prophetic. However, we might want to reconsider this statement now that another 30 years have passed and, notwithstanding a few outdated terms circa the industrial revolution (i.e. replace "machinery" with "technology"), this book still reads fresh. If Counts was not a prophet, then I would definitely grant him the title of visionary.
In the 1930's Counts was actively denouncing the "evils" of the free market (i.e. a few very wealthy creating unwarranted recession for the masses) and how unregulated overindulgence and greed had lead to environmental destruction, energy crises, poor agricultural practices, hunger and starvation, mass unemployment, political corruption, and basically, the unraveling of the American Dream. His call to action was based on the need for educators to help prepare America's youth to combat these social injustices in an ever changing, technically advanced, and global society. Hmm, sound familiar?
Educators, he explained, must be professionally and powerfully organized so that they may demand the right and the autonomy to create appropriate curriculum for their students. Above all, educators must be willing to stand strong in the face of opposition by politicians, business leaders, and the few elite local decision makers, and be able to thoughtfully articulate and argue their positions. After all, Counts himself was accused repeatably of being a communist (which he was not) and a socialist (which he was) but continued to unabashedly defend the rights of the "masses" in a democracy.
At first I was a bit dismayed after finishing this book. I kept wondering "why after 70+ years are we still dealing with the same issues in our educational institutions and society as a whole" and "why can't the teaching profession secure the autonomy and power needed to effectively educate our students?"
However, Counts' message is also inspiring. For example, I found hope in idea that the truly "core" need of education, or the "why" we teach has not changed much, if at all, in the last 70 years; even when the content, or the "what" we teach can and should be organic and change continuously depending on cultural and technical needs of current society.
I found myself in line with Counts' belief that in the classroom teachers should not act as if they are unbiased, unfeeling, and unchanging members of society. Students, he said, should not be sheltered from adult situations and moreover teachers should in fact model how they make decisions based on their experiences, education, spiritual, and political beliefs. In this way, the teacher help create a socially and politically aware classroom where students learn (in one of many settings) how adults function productively, ethnically, and compassionately in the world outside the school.
To achieve such an environment, Counts believes that educators should not have to teach a dictated curriculum formulated by economists, business leaders, politicians, and the elite local "few", who do not have personal, in depth knowledge of the needs of their classroom community.
September 29, 2019
It's simultaneously amazing and heartbreaking that several of the issues in this book are still problems after its 80+ years since publication. Counts is not prophetic, for several issues he predicted never came to be; however, his focus on our economic rather than democratic focus in America has proved to be correct, in my opinion.
August 3, 2017
HmmMmmMmmMMm
February 24, 2018
Relevant, powerful, and inspiring 🙌🏼
July 12, 2023
I read this for a history class. Some of the language was over my head, but the discussion we had in class over it was helpful. My greatest takeaway was that there is a difference between indoctrination and imposition. Imposition is natural and inevitable, and a lot of people confuse it with indoctrination. I don’t disagree with Counts. I do believe that almost 100 years later, we are still dealing with the issues he wrote about. I give this book three stars because it’s not something I would choose to read in my leisure time, but I did enjoy reading it.
June 12, 2007
This was given originally as a speech. It is probably considered very radical. I found it inspiring. Counts believed in the educator as a social reconstructionist. Due to the school as the social places which make students, they should be the embodiment of change. Educators reconstruct society rather than society reconstruction schools. Counts strongly supports the Socratic Method (asking questions) based around the ideals that if you are indoctrinated by a communist teaching "the truth", one will become a communist with the false notions of knowing "the truth". Very committed to socially democratic school system. Anti-censorship. Schools are a place where students learn to experiment with alternatives and intorduce their experiences into society.
October 29, 2013
An interesting read, with a different take on education. What is ironic is that the problems discussed in the book are still the same problems we have today. Not much has changed, which is sad. I found some of the ideas to be interesting and others to have a fascinating point, but I do not agree with some of his actions. You don't have to like the ideas, but it reminds you that our society is not perfect, and we are not working towards fixing it anytime soon it seems, if we are still having the same problems back in 1932 as we are now.
September 8, 2016
Can't wait to read more of his work on education! Reads like a guy born way ahead of his time and sadly that would be true even today.
January 23, 2017
Thought provoking and when placed in the context of modern times...seems eerily similar. I take issue with the premise of his argument that teachers should take the mantle of power as a counter balance to conservatism or in his time anti-new dealers. I embrace the thought of education serving as a crucial formative agency in developing the moral, intellectual and career-minded character of our children that is desperately needed for our country. This however should not be done with the overt tactics as the book suggests.
October 5, 2013
Amazing how the famous educational works seem timeless. Originally published in 1932, Count's book represents a society-centered, reconstructionist educational viewpoint. So much of what he discussed with regards to the fallacies of public education still resonates today. Though the end of the book paints his view as very Communist, if you avoid this label and pitfall, the entire book is fabulous and really will cause you to think about the public educational system.
December 24, 2010
Read for class, EDCI 886, Perspectival Philosophy: Social Reconstructionism. Our first reading to set the stage for the timeframe of social reconstructionism (the 1930's) and to be able to ask the question: Where has it gone? What happened? What is the purpose of schooling? What is the purpose of school? What makes good citizens?
December 7, 2007
So far, the most influential book I've read about educational philosophy
Displaying 1 - 14 of 14 reviews