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Rich Man, Poor Man #1
Vienam daudz, otram maz
Rich Man, Poor Man is the story of two brothers whose contrasting natures reflect the turmoil of post-war America. Rudy is the rich man - a romantic who would let no one stand between him and success. Tom is the poor man - the black sheep of the family on the run from his violent past.
639 pages, Hardcover
First published September 17, 1970
1939 people are currently reading
11065 people want to read
About the author
Irwin Shaw
264 books424 followersShaw was born Irwin Gilbert Shamforoff in the South Bronx, New York City, to Russian Jewish immigrants. Shaw was a prolific American playwright, screenwriter, novelist, and short-story author whose written works have sold more than 14 million copies. He is best known for his novels, The Young Lions (1948) and Rich Man Poor Man (1970).
His parents were Rose and Will. His younger brother, David Shaw (died 2007), became a noted Hollywood producer. Shortly after Irwin's birth, the Shamforoffs moved to Brooklyn. Irwin changed his surname upon entering college. He spent most of his youth in Brooklyn, where he graduated from Brooklyn College with a Bachelor of Arts degree in 1934.
Shaw began screenwriting in 1935 at the age of 21, and scripted for several radio shows, including Dick Tracy, The Gumps and Studio One.
Shaw's first play, Bury the Dead (1936) was an expressionist drama about a group of soldiers killed in a battle who refuse to be buried. During the 1940s, Shaw wrote for a number of films, including Talk of the Town (a comedy about civil liberties), The Commandos Strike at Dawn (based on a C.S. Forester story about commandos in occupied Norway) and Easy Living (about a football player unable to enter the game due to a medical condition). Shaw married Marian Edwards. They had one son, Adam Shaw, born in 1950, himself a writer of magazine articles and non-fiction.
Shaw enlisted in the U.S. Army and was a warrant officer during World War II.He served with an Army documentary film unit. The Young Lions, Shaw's first novel, was published in 1949. Based on his experiences in Europe during the war, the novel was very successful and was adapted into a 1958 film.
Shaw's second novel, The Troubled Air, chronicling the rise of McCarthyism, was published in 1951. He was among those who signed a petition asking the U.S. Supreme Court to review the John Howard Lawson and Dalton Trumbo convictions for contempt of Congress, resulting from hearings by the House Committee on Un-American Activities. Falsely accused of being a communist by the Red Channels publication, Shaw was placed on the Hollywood blacklist by the movie studio bosses. In 1951 he left the United States and went to Europe, where he lived for 25 years, mostly in Paris and Switzerland. He later claimed that the blacklist "only glancingly bruised" his career. During the 1950s he wrote several more screenplays, including Desire Under the Elms (based on Eugene O'Neill's play) and Fire Down Below (about a tramp boat in the Caribbean).
While living in Europe, Shaw wrote more bestselling books, notably Lucy Crown (1956), Two Weeks in Another Town (1960), Rich Man, Poor Man (1970) (for which he would later write a less successful sequel entitled Beggarman, Thief) and Evening in Byzantium (made into a 1978 TV movie). Rich Man, Poor Man was adapted into a highly successful ABC television miniseries in 1976.
His novel Top of the Hill, about the Winter Olympics at Lake Placid in 1980, was made into a TV movie, starring Wayne Rogers, Adrienne Barbeau, and Sonny Bono.
His last two novels were Bread Upon the Waters (1981) and Acceptable Losses (1982).
Shaw died in Davos, Switzerland on May 16, 1984, aged 71, after undergoing treatment for prostate cancer.
His parents were Rose and Will. His younger brother, David Shaw (died 2007), became a noted Hollywood producer. Shortly after Irwin's birth, the Shamforoffs moved to Brooklyn. Irwin changed his surname upon entering college. He spent most of his youth in Brooklyn, where he graduated from Brooklyn College with a Bachelor of Arts degree in 1934.
Shaw began screenwriting in 1935 at the age of 21, and scripted for several radio shows, including Dick Tracy, The Gumps and Studio One.
Shaw's first play, Bury the Dead (1936) was an expressionist drama about a group of soldiers killed in a battle who refuse to be buried. During the 1940s, Shaw wrote for a number of films, including Talk of the Town (a comedy about civil liberties), The Commandos Strike at Dawn (based on a C.S. Forester story about commandos in occupied Norway) and Easy Living (about a football player unable to enter the game due to a medical condition). Shaw married Marian Edwards. They had one son, Adam Shaw, born in 1950, himself a writer of magazine articles and non-fiction.
Shaw enlisted in the U.S. Army and was a warrant officer during World War II.He served with an Army documentary film unit. The Young Lions, Shaw's first novel, was published in 1949. Based on his experiences in Europe during the war, the novel was very successful and was adapted into a 1958 film.
Shaw's second novel, The Troubled Air, chronicling the rise of McCarthyism, was published in 1951. He was among those who signed a petition asking the U.S. Supreme Court to review the John Howard Lawson and Dalton Trumbo convictions for contempt of Congress, resulting from hearings by the House Committee on Un-American Activities. Falsely accused of being a communist by the Red Channels publication, Shaw was placed on the Hollywood blacklist by the movie studio bosses. In 1951 he left the United States and went to Europe, where he lived for 25 years, mostly in Paris and Switzerland. He later claimed that the blacklist "only glancingly bruised" his career. During the 1950s he wrote several more screenplays, including Desire Under the Elms (based on Eugene O'Neill's play) and Fire Down Below (about a tramp boat in the Caribbean).
While living in Europe, Shaw wrote more bestselling books, notably Lucy Crown (1956), Two Weeks in Another Town (1960), Rich Man, Poor Man (1970) (for which he would later write a less successful sequel entitled Beggarman, Thief) and Evening in Byzantium (made into a 1978 TV movie). Rich Man, Poor Man was adapted into a highly successful ABC television miniseries in 1976.
His novel Top of the Hill, about the Winter Olympics at Lake Placid in 1980, was made into a TV movie, starring Wayne Rogers, Adrienne Barbeau, and Sonny Bono.
His last two novels were Bread Upon the Waters (1981) and Acceptable Losses (1982).
Shaw died in Davos, Switzerland on May 16, 1984, aged 71, after undergoing treatment for prostate cancer.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 616 reviews
May 12, 2025
My five-star rating for this tempestuous book - an ethical firestorm far, far away from the goofy simplistic reductionism of the TV Movie - reflects my true reaction to it, back in 1981.
In 1981 my Mom was dying. Her life with me had centered on rescuing me from my demons, Tibetan Hungry Ghosts all, and delivering me into safety with my angels, my tutelary spirits.
What is a hungry ghost? In Christian terms it is a moiling, restless spirit - a personification of the infernal realms - that seeks to enslave and drag us down with him or her to the pit.
My friends at the time were such hungry ghosts - ringwraiths. Even my erstwhile fiance in 1974 was one of 'em! Oy vay ist mir.
My Mom saw all that too clearly.
She knew I was a Rudolph Jordache - dumber than him, but a good guy at heart who had fallen among thieves.
***
But as Rudolph redeems himself - by once again walking the narrow middle path of life, so did I, eventually. It got results. Following the straight path does that.
By a quirk of utter serendipity, I met my soulmate during Christmas, 1977. She changed my life.
And when in 1981 I proposed to her, that Thanksgiving - she said YES. And my Mom was at the wedding, weeks before she died.
***
Rudolph is saved, you see, though others remain in grave danger. For they have fallen into the rut of Perpetual Victimhood... the Slough.
Devoured by the Hungry Ghosts of Hell!
You know, your job itself can become a hungry ghost. As can any other misplaced obsession - money, power, comfort, health, guilt, resentment, envy - the list is endless.
But this Mothers' Day of 2023 I'm praying for my Angel - My Mom.
Cause she showed me the Four Noble Truths:
Life is pain.
Pain is caused by thirsting desire.
Thirsting desire can be ended.
It can be ended by the Practice of Virtue and the Avoiding of Immorality:
The essence, too, of Rudolph Jordache's middle way, and now MINE.
In 1981 my Mom was dying. Her life with me had centered on rescuing me from my demons, Tibetan Hungry Ghosts all, and delivering me into safety with my angels, my tutelary spirits.
What is a hungry ghost? In Christian terms it is a moiling, restless spirit - a personification of the infernal realms - that seeks to enslave and drag us down with him or her to the pit.
My friends at the time were such hungry ghosts - ringwraiths. Even my erstwhile fiance in 1974 was one of 'em! Oy vay ist mir.
My Mom saw all that too clearly.
She knew I was a Rudolph Jordache - dumber than him, but a good guy at heart who had fallen among thieves.
***
But as Rudolph redeems himself - by once again walking the narrow middle path of life, so did I, eventually. It got results. Following the straight path does that.
By a quirk of utter serendipity, I met my soulmate during Christmas, 1977. She changed my life.
And when in 1981 I proposed to her, that Thanksgiving - she said YES. And my Mom was at the wedding, weeks before she died.
***
Rudolph is saved, you see, though others remain in grave danger. For they have fallen into the rut of Perpetual Victimhood... the Slough.
Devoured by the Hungry Ghosts of Hell!
You know, your job itself can become a hungry ghost. As can any other misplaced obsession - money, power, comfort, health, guilt, resentment, envy - the list is endless.
But this Mothers' Day of 2023 I'm praying for my Angel - My Mom.
Cause she showed me the Four Noble Truths:
Life is pain.
Pain is caused by thirsting desire.
Thirsting desire can be ended.
It can be ended by the Practice of Virtue and the Avoiding of Immorality:
The essence, too, of Rudolph Jordache's middle way, and now MINE.
May 16, 2023
I read this one decades ago.
Can I remember the plot? Not much, but I remembered being impressed with the main character.
Rudy Jordache wanted to be a financial and social success, but it seemed that to do so, he would have to compromise his principles.
The story also followed his more aggressive younger brother, Tom, and his VERY rocky road.
The last book in the series, if I remember correctly, dealt with the next generation of Jordaches. (I had to correct this review because I realized I was confusing it with the ending of Taylor Caldwell's The Captains and the Kings! Oooops! Now that was another excellent read/mini-series of my youth!)
Maybe I got my life-long ambivalent attitude to money and so-called "success" from Irwin Shaw? He was one of my favourite authors back then. Not surprised it was turned into a mini-series.
I won't reread this one, or watch the mini-series. They don't usually translate well by today's standards. I do remember being very impressed by Shaw's novels at that time.
Can I remember the plot? Not much, but I remembered being impressed with the main character.
Rudy Jordache wanted to be a financial and social success, but it seemed that to do so, he would have to compromise his principles.
The story also followed his more aggressive younger brother, Tom, and his VERY rocky road.
The last book in the series, if I remember correctly, dealt with the next generation of Jordaches. (I had to correct this review because I realized I was confusing it with the ending of Taylor Caldwell's The Captains and the Kings! Oooops! Now that was another excellent read/mini-series of my youth!)
Maybe I got my life-long ambivalent attitude to money and so-called "success" from Irwin Shaw? He was one of my favourite authors back then. Not surprised it was turned into a mini-series.
I won't reread this one, or watch the mini-series. They don't usually translate well by today's standards. I do remember being very impressed by Shaw's novels at that time.
April 13, 2020
This is Irwin Shaw' s most successful book,a six million copy bestseller.It is the story of the Jordache family,the troubled marriage of the parents and their three children.
The story begins after the end of World War II and continues till the beginning of Vietnam.Rudolph is the golden child,Thomas is the black sheep and Gretchen, their sister,runs away from home after an affair with an older man.
Rudoloph acquires a good education and becomes successful enough to become very rich,with aspirations of a political career.But he struggles to find happiness in his personal life.
Thomas,ever the trouble maker,gets into trouble with the law,becomes a boxer and struggles to settle down in life,until Rudolph comes to the rescue.There is a final twist in store for Thomas,at the very end.
In their own way,the three siblings make their share of moral compromises in their pursuit of success.
This is compelling storytelling,an epic,sweeping saga. It is a book I'd like to read again.
Shaw wrote a sequel,Beggarman Thief,about the next generation of the Jordaches.But that was not half as good.
The story begins after the end of World War II and continues till the beginning of Vietnam.Rudolph is the golden child,Thomas is the black sheep and Gretchen, their sister,runs away from home after an affair with an older man.
Rudoloph acquires a good education and becomes successful enough to become very rich,with aspirations of a political career.But he struggles to find happiness in his personal life.
Thomas,ever the trouble maker,gets into trouble with the law,becomes a boxer and struggles to settle down in life,until Rudolph comes to the rescue.There is a final twist in store for Thomas,at the very end.
In their own way,the three siblings make their share of moral compromises in their pursuit of success.
This is compelling storytelling,an epic,sweeping saga. It is a book I'd like to read again.
Shaw wrote a sequel,Beggarman Thief,about the next generation of the Jordaches.But that was not half as good.
September 13, 2011
At the time that I read this, way back in high school days, I’m sure I would’ve given it the full five stars. I hadn’t thought much about it since. Then, a few weeks ago, as I was reminiscing about it with my culturally astute wife, her comment was something like, “Oh yea, wasn’t that a night-time soap?” Thinking back, I suppose it was. They made a mini-series out of it that featured a young Nick Nolte as the black sheep brother – the edgier one, quick with his fists.
I recall getting caught up in the epic sweep of it all. It pitted good vs. evil with varying shades of gray. And wasn’t there a conflict with the love interest to give the story legs? So yes, Susie Smartypants, it was a night-time soap, but my sensors weren’t very refined back at that time when the only other books on my shelf were sports biographies and compilations from Mad Magazine.
I recall getting caught up in the epic sweep of it all. It pitted good vs. evil with varying shades of gray. And wasn’t there a conflict with the love interest to give the story legs? So yes, Susie Smartypants, it was a night-time soap, but my sensors weren’t very refined back at that time when the only other books on my shelf were sports biographies and compilations from Mad Magazine.
December 29, 2024
Едно време, преди 1989 година беше почти невъзможно да докопаш тази книга без яки връзки!
Вървеше и сериал по телевизията, следен от цялата страна с нестихващ интерес. "Западът" беше силно загнил, но пък толкова сладко миришеше. :)
Шоу е перфектен в разгръщането на съдбите на братята Томи и Руди Джордах, чиста дисекция на американската мечта за успех, на всяка цена и с всички възможни средства.
Вървеше и сериал по телевизията, следен от цялата страна с нестихващ интерес. "Западът" беше силно загнил, но пък толкова сладко миришеше. :)
Шоу е перфектен в разгръщането на съдбите на братята Томи и Руди Джордах, чиста дисекция на американската мечта за успех, на всяка цена и с всички възможни средства.
November 3, 2021
Интересно дали всеки читател на тази книга е откроил своя любим герой сред тримата Джордах – Гретхен, Томас и Руди? Моите фаворити се сменяха често в началото, но в крайна сметка Руди – праволинейният, скучен и порядъчен Руди ми стана най-близък. Може би защото у останалите имаше някакъв ирационално-разрушителен импулс, а това, което наистина ме вбесява, е пропиляването на потенциала у човека. И другите двама в някакъв момент преодоляха това разпиляване, но у Руди съхраняването на здравия разум беше най-константно.
През цялото време ми се струваше, че героите и ситуациите са познати и типични, но не в лошия, предвидимия смисъл. Липсата на резки завои всъщност подсилва реалистичното. Не чета често семейни саги, които се разгръщат десетилетя, така де - ако ще е обемна книга, то поне да е историческа, но “Богат беден” е незаобиколима класика и има защо.
През цялото време ми се струваше, че героите и ситуациите са познати и типични, но не в лошия, предвидимия смисъл. Липсата на резки завои всъщност подсилва реалистичното. Не чета често семейни саги, които се разгръщат десетилетя, така де - ако ще е обемна книга, то поне да е историческа, но “Богат беден” е незаобиколима класика и има защо.
January 28, 2008
This is the fourth, and best, book I've read by Irwin Shaw, and having completed it, I feel that it will be a good idea for me to read everything else he ever wrote. There are many ideas and themes related throughout the course of its 600 or so pages that made me stop and think before continuing reading, and that made me think later on in the day, or the next day.
The story follows two brothers and a sister, all very different, and how their lives affect each other throughout the course of a quarter-century. It begins in New York, during the end of World War II, and gives the reader ideas about each of the three main characters (who are in their teens when the story starts), how they regard (or disregard) each other and others outside the family.
A lot of the narrative centers around the violent kid (and later, adult) Tom Jordache and his disgust for and hatred of his brother, Rudolph. Tom makes his way up (to a point) in the world of boxing, while his brother makes a name for himself as a businessman and later, politician. Their sister, Gretchen, has ill feelings towards both of them, but strangely, they all end up helping each other while they hurt each other, throughout the course of their lives.
There really was no point during the story that I had a clear idea of what would happen in the coming years or how the entire thing would turn out. Shaw makes the transition from the forties to the fifties to the sixties extremely easy, and nothing about the characters growth seems forced or stretched. I loved this book very much.
The story follows two brothers and a sister, all very different, and how their lives affect each other throughout the course of a quarter-century. It begins in New York, during the end of World War II, and gives the reader ideas about each of the three main characters (who are in their teens when the story starts), how they regard (or disregard) each other and others outside the family.
A lot of the narrative centers around the violent kid (and later, adult) Tom Jordache and his disgust for and hatred of his brother, Rudolph. Tom makes his way up (to a point) in the world of boxing, while his brother makes a name for himself as a businessman and later, politician. Their sister, Gretchen, has ill feelings towards both of them, but strangely, they all end up helping each other while they hurt each other, throughout the course of their lives.
There really was no point during the story that I had a clear idea of what would happen in the coming years or how the entire thing would turn out. Shaw makes the transition from the forties to the fifties to the sixties extremely easy, and nothing about the characters growth seems forced or stretched. I loved this book very much.
July 23, 2024
Відчуваю спустошення і пишу відгук прямо після прочитання 😔
Ось це — сімейна сага. Ось це дійсно воно.
За тиждень з гаком я б не хотів відпускати персонажів і їх історії.
🤝В центрі сюжету сімʼя Джордахів. Батько, мати, 2 брати і сестра. Один з братів подає надії бути опорою сімʼї, інший брат пропавший, а сестра.. просто існує. Стосунки батьків — це теж велике питання.
Хотілося б щоб по цій книзі, а конкретно по сімʼї пройшовся який-небудь психолог і сказав, коли це звернулось не туди, і що тому є причина. В мене є кілька догадок, але це так, чисто мої спостереження.
📌 Насправді саме цій книзі чудово підійшов би підзаголовок «Занепад однієї родини», тому що після знайомства з героями починається жесть.
Це історія про людей, які проживають війну. Друга світова усіх торкнула і фізично, і емоційно, і країна переживає Велику депресію.
👉 Десь на 100 сторінці я вже зрозумів, що я не очікую від книги сюжетних поворотів і сльозливих історій. Це, скоріше більше про простеження персонажів. Тому що ми буквально проживаємо з ними декілька десятків років і круто порівняти якими вони були на початку і в кінці книги. Колосальна різниця, якщо що, а між цим десь 750 сторінок тексту чому так і що не так.
➕ Сам текст не важкий. Багато діалогів, а самі описи вони такі.. ну прості, тобто читаючи цю книгу я відпочивав, вона справді написана легко. 860 сторінок вжух і пролетіли.
👉 Порівнюючи з «Ті що співають у терні», скоріше «Багач, бідняк» мені зайшов більше. Невелика часова лінія, менша кількість персонажів (відповідно більше «ефірного часу» кожному), більше діалогів (відповідно легше читати) і якось історія більш припала до душі.
Ось це — сімейна сага. Ось це дійсно воно.
За тиждень з гаком я б не хотів відпускати персонажів і їх історії.
🤝В центрі сюжету сімʼя Джордахів. Батько, мати, 2 брати і сестра. Один з братів подає надії бути опорою сімʼї, інший брат пропавший, а сестра.. просто існує. Стосунки батьків — це теж велике питання.
Хотілося б щоб по цій книзі, а конкретно по сімʼї пройшовся який-небудь психолог і сказав, коли це звернулось не туди, і що тому є причина. В мене є кілька догадок, але це так, чисто мої спостереження.
📌 Насправді саме цій книзі чудово підійшов би підзаголовок «Занепад однієї родини», тому що після знайомства з героями починається жесть.
Це історія про людей, які проживають війну. Друга світова усіх торкнула і фізично, і емоційно, і країна переживає Велику депресію.
👉 Десь на 100 сторінці я вже зрозумів, що я не очікую від книги сюжетних поворотів і сльозливих історій. Це, скоріше більше про простеження персонажів. Тому що ми буквально проживаємо з ними декілька десятків років і круто порівняти якими вони були на початку і в кінці книги. Колосальна різниця, якщо що, а між цим десь 750 сторінок тексту чому так і що не так.
➕ Сам текст не важкий. Багато діалогів, а самі описи вони такі.. ну прості, тобто читаючи цю книгу я відпочивав, вона справді написана легко. 860 сторінок вжух і пролетіли.
👉 Порівнюючи з «Ті що співають у терні», скоріше «Багач, бідняк» мені зайшов більше. Невелика часова лінія, менша кількість персонажів (відповідно більше «ефірного часу» кожному), більше діалогів (відповідно легше читати) і якось історія більш припала до душі.
May 27, 2015
Богат, беден, вечен: http://knigolandia.info/book-review/b...
Както за “Дракула” на Брам Стокър, така и за “Богат, беден” на Ъруин Шоу не виждам смисъл да пиша обичайно ревю, в което да се отнасям в обяснения за сюжета, неговите течения, водовъртежи и дълбини. Тая книга е много лична за мен – в изданието, което виждате долу вдясно (мнозина ще го разпознаят с лекота), съм я чел поне седем-осем пъти, и дълго време я считах за любима своя книга (после дойдоха “Сянката на вятъра”, “Мидълсекс”, “Доброжелателните” и прочие, та загуби тоя статус). Преди няколко седмици си бях във Видин и потърсих книгата… намерих я веднага, но се различаваше от спомените ми. Да, ясно бе, че е доста намачкана и напът да се разпадне от толкова четения в семейството, но не помнех тъмната хартия и адски дребния шрифт, като малък хич не съм и обръщал внимание на такива неща. Но сега обръщам – и затова от мига, в който поех този проект, си казах, че книгата ще е голям формат, ще е с твърда корица и хартията ще е качествен офсет.
CIELA Books
http://knigolandia.info/book-review/b...
Както за “Дракула” на Брам Стокър, така и за “Богат, беден” на Ъруин Шоу не виждам смисъл да пиша обичайно ревю, в което да се отнасям в обяснения за сюжета, неговите течения, водовъртежи и дълбини. Тая книга е много лична за мен – в изданието, което виждате долу вдясно (мнозина ще го разпознаят с лекота), съм я чел поне седем-осем пъти, и дълго време я считах за любима своя книга (после дойдоха “Сянката на вятъра”, “Мидълсекс”, “Доброжелателните” и прочие, та загуби тоя статус). Преди няколко седмици си бях във Видин и потърсих книгата… намерих я веднага, но се различаваше от спомените ми. Да, ясно бе, че е доста намачкана и напът да се разпадне от толкова четения в семейството, но не помнех тъмната хартия и адски дребния шрифт, като малък хич не съм и обръщал внимание на такива неща. Но сега обръщам – и затова от мига, в който поех този проект, си казах, че книгата ще е голям формат, ще е с твърда корица и хартията ще е качествен офсет.
CIELA Books
http://knigolandia.info/book-review/b...
September 29, 2011
If only all books were this good.
The story of three siblings who started life in a dysfunctional family, each with their own personality, striving for a better life.
The eldest, Gretchen, who accepted help from a wealthy man and willingly paid his price, ends up becoming an independent woman but only after many years have passed.
Rudolph, the golden child not just to his mother but also to other people as he climbs the ladder of success with hardwork and honesty which can't save him from great disappointment polically and personally.
Tom, fighter and filled with hatred for his brother and sister who seem to have everything he doesn't but ends up happy finally and at peace with his family.
Wonderful book.
The story of three siblings who started life in a dysfunctional family, each with their own personality, striving for a better life.
The eldest, Gretchen, who accepted help from a wealthy man and willingly paid his price, ends up becoming an independent woman but only after many years have passed.
Rudolph, the golden child not just to his mother but also to other people as he climbs the ladder of success with hardwork and honesty which can't save him from great disappointment polically and personally.
Tom, fighter and filled with hatred for his brother and sister who seem to have everything he doesn't but ends up happy finally and at peace with his family.
Wonderful book.
December 29, 2024
Една книга, която ще те накара да се замислиш кое е истинското богатство и кое - бедност. Една история, която се прокрадва като мъгла, докато внезапно - на последната глава, последното изречение, последната дума и точка - не те втресе из основи. Една необятна картина, в която можеш да се взираш с часове и да намираш нови и нови детайли, перспективи, проекции. Пресечната точка на минало, бъдеще и настояще, където удобно почива вечността.
March 16, 2022
С тази книга открих за себе си в едно далечно време, че да си богат не значи да си зъл, а да си беден не означава автоматично морално съвършенство. И че животът разбърква колодата по неописуемо непридвидими начини. Животът може да се окаже игра на покер, като на играчите тя не обещава нищо кой знае колко бляскаво, освен мъничко самоуважение в края на играта, ако са се борили докрай.
Точно затова харесах Том. И Руди. Гретхен - не. Тя така и не осъзна в каква игра участва. Но така е с повечето от нас.
Точно затова харесах Том. И Руди. Гретхен - не. Тя така и не осъзна в каква игра участва. Но така е с повечето от нас.
August 4, 2020
Богат, беден, истински във всяка форма.
Ъруин Шоу ни оставя редица чудесни книги, от които най-известни вероятно са "The Young Lions" и именно "Богат, беден". Първата е военна драма, а тази е семейна драма ... явно драмите най-добре им се отдава да се превръщат в класики.
"Богат, беден" не е книга за една тема, или един аспект от живота. Тя е многопластова, пълнокръвна и истинска, както са истински стремежите, постиженията, разочарованията и ... лицемерието. Да и то.
Съдията, който изяде елена, осъди бракониера на затвор. Това ли е лицето на Америка? И това е. И дискриминацията по всякакъв признак - расов, пол, социално положение, пари ... най-вече пари. Ще кажем - "Това са 50-те и 60-те". Незнам, не живея в Америка. Ако има нов Ъруин Шоу - нека напише такава сага сега. Впрочем и той самият не е живят там, когато книгата е писана - наложило му се е да емигрира в Европа, откъдето пък неговите родители преди това били избягали. Интересна е съдбата и на самият автор за проследяване. Също носи уроци.
А тази книга носи предимно уроци. Натоварена е с тях и ги носи както човек носи тежка съдба - непосредствено, близко, с цялата жестокост на реалността и с всичките мечти на стремежа за нещо повече. На моменти историята звучи почти като притча. Даже към края има един разговор между богат пенсиониран бизнесмен и бунтаря Томас, намерил пристан в една мечтана съживена яхта, където ... нямаше ли точно такава притча? За богатия, който със спестените си пари отива на почивка на остров и там среща лодкаря и осъзнава, че той на практика живее така, както богатия цял живот е мечтал, докато работи.
Това е само една от ненатрапчивите поуки. За живота "от едно пристанище, на което правят вино и зехтин, до друго пристанище, където правят вино и зехтин" и живота "за пример". Пример на кого? Следващото поколение, децата на главните герои - са показател за оценката на постигнатото от родителите. А основните герои са семейство емигранти (защо ли си мисля, че авторът е вкарвал и не малко от себе си в историята ... и не само за това), които са хем събирателни, типологизирани образи, хем са си пълнокръвни герои, за които започва да ни пука още от първите страници. И внимание - за мен типологизирането им е умишлено заблуждаващо! Лесно е да класифицираме единия брат като "златното момче", другият - като побойник / бунтар / нехранимайки и тнт., а сестра им като лековерна, лекомислена и прелъстена ... ама към края, с още някой прочит, с повечко житейски опит - може да се окаже и че не е толкова лесно. Че не е точно, както пише в текста черно на бяло. Това ми сравнение не е много уместно за случая на сестрата ...
Както и да е. Идеята е, че това е измамно лесна за четене книга. Изводите са измамно ясни.
Освен това е задължителна класика, която да си припомняме. По-добре това, отколкото продължението ѝ. То по общо (и мое) мнение - не достига същото ниво. За някои дори втората част на книгата не е толкова силна като първата. Обаче, за мен имаше градация в емоцията спрямо героите. И дори началните им случки да са в по-добро темпо, по отчетливи и по запленяващи, емоцията си я носих до края.
Приятно четене / слушане! Аз си залагам дипломата по литература (дето я нямам), че ще ви е приятно и ценно.
Ъруин Шоу ни оставя редица чудесни книги, от които най-известни вероятно са "The Young Lions" и именно "Богат, беден". Първата е военна драма, а тази е семейна драма ... явно драмите най-добре им се отдава да се превръщат в класики.
"Богат, беден" не е книга за една тема, или един аспект от живота. Тя е многопластова, пълнокръвна и истинска, както са истински стремежите, постиженията, разочарованията и ... лицемерието. Да и то.
Съдията, който изяде елена, осъди бракониера на затвор. Това ли е лицето на Америка? И това е. И дискриминацията по всякакъв признак - расов, пол, социално положение, пари ... най-вече пари. Ще кажем - "Това са 50-те и 60-те". Незнам, не живея в Америка. Ако има нов Ъруин Шоу - нека напише такава сага сега. Впрочем и той самият не е живят там, когато книгата е писана - наложило му се е да емигрира в Европа, откъдето пък неговите родители преди това били избягали. Интересна е съдбата и на самият автор за проследяване. Също носи уроци.
А тази книга носи предимно уроци. Натоварена е с тях и ги носи както човек носи тежка съдба - непосредствено, близко, с цялата жестокост на реалността и с всичките мечти на стремежа за нещо повече. На моменти историята звучи почти като притча. Даже към края има един разговор между богат пенсиониран бизнесмен и бунтаря Томас, намерил пристан в една мечтана съживена яхта, където ... нямаше ли точно такава притча? За богатия, който със спестените си пари отива на почивка на остров и там среща лодкаря и осъзнава, че той на практика живее така, както богатия цял живот е мечтал, докато работи.
Това е само една от ненатрапчивите поуки. За живота "от едно пристанище, на което правят вино и зехтин, до друго пристанище, където правят вино и зехтин" и живота "за пример". Пример на кого? Следващото поколение, децата на главните герои - са показател за оценката на постигнатото от родителите. А основните герои са семейство емигранти (защо ли си мисля, че авторът е вкарвал и не малко от себе си в историята ... и не само за това), които са хем събирателни, типологизирани образи, хем са си пълнокръвни герои, за които започва да ни пука още от първите страници. И внимание - за мен типологизирането им е умишлено заблуждаващо! Лесно е да класифицираме единия брат като "златното момче", другият - като побойник / бунтар / нехранимайки и тнт., а сестра им като лековерна, лекомислена и прелъстена ... ама към края, с още някой прочит, с повечко житейски опит - може да се окаже и че не е толкова лесно. Че не е точно, както пише в текста черно на бяло. Това ми сравнение не е много уместно за случая на сестрата ...
Както и да е. Идеята е, че това е измамно лесна за четене книга. Изводите са измамно ясни.
Освен това е задължителна класика, която да си припомняме. По-добре това, отколкото продължението ѝ. То по общо (и мое) мнение - не достига същото ниво. За някои дори втората част на книгата не е толкова силна като първата. Обаче, за мен имаше градация в емоцията спрямо героите. И дори началните им случки да са в по-добро темпо, по отчетливи и по запленяващи, емоцията си я носих до края.
Приятно четене / слушане! Аз си залагам дипломата по литература (дето я нямам), че ще ви е приятно и ценно.
August 26, 2025
“Get out,” she said harshly, “get out before they finish crippling you. Get out of that house where nobody has a friend, where the doorbell never rings.”
The Jordache family of Port Philip in rural New York reminds me quite strongly of the Baltimore Tulls from Anne Tyler’s book Dinner at the Homesick Restaurant. Three siblings, two boys and a girl, that are driven out by their parents’ dysfunctional relationship and who try over several decades to find a home for their troubled souls. While Tyler is focused on personal drama, Irwin Shaw somehow manages, like he did with The Young Lions, to capture the soul of a whole nation in the aftermath of the second world war and in its search for a purpose in life. The Jordaches are emblematic for the corruption of the American Dream and for the author’s own disillusionment that made him an expatriate to Europe after the McCarthy era purges.
German born Axel Jordache came to the United States after the horrors of the first world war, eager to make a fresh start, to work hard and to raise a family. He marries Mary, an orphan girl raised in a Catholic monastery. Together, they move to Port Philip and buy a bakery, only to be caught up in the Great Depression. They have three children: Gretchen, Rudolph and Thomas, but they are always fighting over money, over Axel’s violent temper and over Mary’s frigid aversion to her husband’s attentions in the bedroom.
“She was broken in spirit by poverty and lack of love and she was devoted to God,”
She had been old at thirty, had started dying before that. For the first time her real age made a conscious impression on him. Fifty-six.
Both Mary and Axel’s stories are tragic, but the novel is mainly following the destinies of the next generation, starting with the events surrounding Victory Day celebrations in 1945. Gretchen, the eldest, is working as a typist for the company of the richest man in town, Teddy Boylan, and as a nurse for wounded soldiers in the evenings. Rudolph excels in school, does everything he is told, and plays trumpet in his school band. Thomas, the wild youngest brother, is roaming the streets picking up fights and hustling for pocket money.
The reader can detect, here and in later developments, Shaw’s background in the theater. The events are carefully choreographed around the theme of the American Dream, as embodied by the successful, decadent and smooth talking Teddy Boyle. His intervention into the lives of the Jordache children will have lifetime repercussions.
“I carried the luck of the whole family. If I hadn’t been on a certain road at lunchtime near Port Philip on a Saturday afternoon, all our lives would’ve been completely different. Did you know that?” exclaims an older Gretchen during one of the extremely rare family reunions
Without getting into spoilerish details, Gretchen is seduced by Boyle and repudiated by her mother. She flees to New York, where she starts as an advertising model and Broadway starlet, using her sensuality to get ahead.
Thomas is run out of Port Philip by angry citizens after a hate crime incident at Teddy Boyle’s mansion. He is sent to Axel’s brother in St. Louis, where he will continue the pattern of getting violent and getting in trouble.
Rudolph, painfully aware of his poverty, makes a vow to do everything possible to become rich, accepting Teddy Boyle’s sponsorship for College.
“Go for the money,” Axel said. “Don’t let anybody fool you. Don’t go for anything else. Don’t listen to all the crap they write in the papers about Other Values. That’s what the rich preach to the poor so that they can keep raking it in, without getting their throats cut.”
Irwin Shaw has a rare talent to be substantial without becoming flashy with literary devices or sophisticated prose. The book feels much shorter than its actual page number, because he somehow puts the reader not only in the middle of the action, but also inside the mind of his creations. The big canvas of the American society, from the late forties to the early seventies, comes alive with a large cast of secondary characters playing their roles in the career and emotional lives of the Jordache siblings. My engagement with the characters and with the story grew steadily as I progressed into the plot, despite the initial unflattering portraits of all three Jordache protagonists.
I would rate him a little under John Irving, but above the commercial writers of the eighties who were probably inspired by his work, like Sidney Sheldon or Barbara Taylor Bradford. I do have some reservations about the emphasis on sex in the novel, tastefully handled, but sort of typical of a large number of Jewish writers of Shaw’s generation, who were probably also marked by the 60s revolution after growing up in traditional families.
Gretchen was sick with the sickness of the age. Everything was based on sex. The pursuit of the sacred orgasm.
Actually, Gretchen is my favorite Jordache, and it has little to do with her sensuality and more with her struggle to adapt and to change her life while remaining true to her values and her independence. Gretchen is strong enough to learn later in life to accept her own vulnerabilities. Her first act of emancipation is that fateful Sunday trip for an illicit assignation that the world is still frowning upon today . She follows it by leaving her house, freeing herself of Teddy Boyle’s control and making a name for herself in New York. Gretchen eventually marries Willie Abbot, a writer with an alcohol problem, has a child and starts writing critical articles about society. Later she moves to Hollywood with the theatrical director turned film maker, Colin Burke, still trying to find fulfilment in marriage and in her professional life.
Meanwhile, Rudolph appears to me as a man driven to extreme reactions by his goal of becoming rich, fast. While Gretchen is sleeping around, Rudy denies himself everything until he makes his fortune. With almost ruthless purpose, he starts work right after college in a local convenience shop, Calderwood, while making friends with a Wall Street broker he meets at one of his sister’s parties.
He listens avidly to his Professor Denton economic talks, but extracts from them mostly what will help him advance in life, ignoring the warnings. What Rudy actually hears is that it is better to be rich than poor.
“The American economy,” he had said in class, “is a rigged crap table, with loaded dice. The laws are carefully arranged so that the Rich throw only sevens and everybody else throws only snake-eyes.”
“It’s in Geneva,” Denton said. “I want to get out of this goddamn country.”
Professor Denton is important here also for the chapters about the McCarthy show trials and the way people kept quiet in order to avoid the spotlight falling on them and getting on the infamous black lists. Unfortunately, it feels like these problems are coming back with a vengeance in 2025.
Rudolph Jordache has a longer journey than Gretchen and Thomas to get out of the rat race. He makes his fortune, stepping on a lot of toes but also working hard 24 hours a day, seven days a week. He eventually meets a beautiful and intelligent New York photographer named Jean, and starts to reassess his priorities.
“I’m not domestic,” Jean had said stubbornly. “I don’t like small towns. I’m on my way up in this city. I’m not going to give it all up just because a man wants to marry me.”
Thomas leads his life forward with his fists, moving from town to town and constantly getting in trouble. He eventually becomes a boxer, wins several matches then enters a downward spiral that puts him on a mob hit list. He flees America and works on a tramp trawler, trying to keep a low profile, until he meets a man named Falconetti.
Sure, Falconetti was a pig and deserved a lesson, but the lesson should have ended somewhere else than in the middle of the Atlantic.
I don’t remember much from the TV series. I was 12 or 13 when it run and was interested mainly in the boxing details. Falconetti is the only name from the series that actually stayed in my mind, as a very scary and dark adversary to the blond hero. In the book, his role is crucial, but I think much reduced compared to the TV movie. I need to rewatch the series, but so far I only found poor DVD transfers of only the first six episodes.
>>><<<>>><<<
Coming back to the book, there’s not much I can add without spoilers. I liked the fact that the tree main characters are not static. They evolve at the pace the American society as a whole changes, their values in flux, their relationship to each other getting closer and more candid as they accept and internalize the traumas of the past.
Eventually, the next generation of Jordaches, represented by Billy and Wesley, will have to make a similar journey to that of their parents, just as Rudy, Gretchen and Tom did in order to free themselves of the curse of Mary and Axel.
I hope my last bookmarks are self-sufficient and don’t need context.
Rudolph, on accepting his family heritage:
Duties never end. It is their essential characteristic.
Jean, observing the world around her though the lens of her camera:
Hardship and age, she tells me, preferably the two together, tell more about the character of a people and country than anything else.
Tom, finally finding peace away from the American rat race:
“Tom,” Rudolph said, “don’t you ever miss America?”
“What’s America done for me?” Thomas said. “I don’t care if I never see it again after this time.”
I plan to read the sequel, ‘Beggarman, Thief’ , even as I am aware that it has lower ratings overall. I got attached to the Jordache saga.
The Jordache family of Port Philip in rural New York reminds me quite strongly of the Baltimore Tulls from Anne Tyler’s book Dinner at the Homesick Restaurant. Three siblings, two boys and a girl, that are driven out by their parents’ dysfunctional relationship and who try over several decades to find a home for their troubled souls. While Tyler is focused on personal drama, Irwin Shaw somehow manages, like he did with The Young Lions, to capture the soul of a whole nation in the aftermath of the second world war and in its search for a purpose in life. The Jordaches are emblematic for the corruption of the American Dream and for the author’s own disillusionment that made him an expatriate to Europe after the McCarthy era purges.
German born Axel Jordache came to the United States after the horrors of the first world war, eager to make a fresh start, to work hard and to raise a family. He marries Mary, an orphan girl raised in a Catholic monastery. Together, they move to Port Philip and buy a bakery, only to be caught up in the Great Depression. They have three children: Gretchen, Rudolph and Thomas, but they are always fighting over money, over Axel’s violent temper and over Mary’s frigid aversion to her husband’s attentions in the bedroom.
“She was broken in spirit by poverty and lack of love and she was devoted to God,”
She had been old at thirty, had started dying before that. For the first time her real age made a conscious impression on him. Fifty-six.
Both Mary and Axel’s stories are tragic, but the novel is mainly following the destinies of the next generation, starting with the events surrounding Victory Day celebrations in 1945. Gretchen, the eldest, is working as a typist for the company of the richest man in town, Teddy Boylan, and as a nurse for wounded soldiers in the evenings. Rudolph excels in school, does everything he is told, and plays trumpet in his school band. Thomas, the wild youngest brother, is roaming the streets picking up fights and hustling for pocket money.
The reader can detect, here and in later developments, Shaw’s background in the theater. The events are carefully choreographed around the theme of the American Dream, as embodied by the successful, decadent and smooth talking Teddy Boyle. His intervention into the lives of the Jordache children will have lifetime repercussions.
“I carried the luck of the whole family. If I hadn’t been on a certain road at lunchtime near Port Philip on a Saturday afternoon, all our lives would’ve been completely different. Did you know that?” exclaims an older Gretchen during one of the extremely rare family reunions
Without getting into spoilerish details, Gretchen is seduced by Boyle and repudiated by her mother. She flees to New York, where she starts as an advertising model and Broadway starlet, using her sensuality to get ahead.
Thomas is run out of Port Philip by angry citizens after a hate crime incident at Teddy Boyle’s mansion. He is sent to Axel’s brother in St. Louis, where he will continue the pattern of getting violent and getting in trouble.
Rudolph, painfully aware of his poverty, makes a vow to do everything possible to become rich, accepting Teddy Boyle’s sponsorship for College.
“Go for the money,” Axel said. “Don’t let anybody fool you. Don’t go for anything else. Don’t listen to all the crap they write in the papers about Other Values. That’s what the rich preach to the poor so that they can keep raking it in, without getting their throats cut.”
Irwin Shaw has a rare talent to be substantial without becoming flashy with literary devices or sophisticated prose. The book feels much shorter than its actual page number, because he somehow puts the reader not only in the middle of the action, but also inside the mind of his creations. The big canvas of the American society, from the late forties to the early seventies, comes alive with a large cast of secondary characters playing their roles in the career and emotional lives of the Jordache siblings. My engagement with the characters and with the story grew steadily as I progressed into the plot, despite the initial unflattering portraits of all three Jordache protagonists.
I would rate him a little under John Irving, but above the commercial writers of the eighties who were probably inspired by his work, like Sidney Sheldon or Barbara Taylor Bradford. I do have some reservations about the emphasis on sex in the novel, tastefully handled, but sort of typical of a large number of Jewish writers of Shaw’s generation, who were probably also marked by the 60s revolution after growing up in traditional families.
Gretchen was sick with the sickness of the age. Everything was based on sex. The pursuit of the sacred orgasm.
Actually, Gretchen is my favorite Jordache, and it has little to do with her sensuality and more with her struggle to adapt and to change her life while remaining true to her values and her independence. Gretchen is strong enough to learn later in life to accept her own vulnerabilities. Her first act of emancipation is that fateful Sunday trip for an illicit assignation that the world is still frowning upon today . She follows it by leaving her house, freeing herself of Teddy Boyle’s control and making a name for herself in New York. Gretchen eventually marries Willie Abbot, a writer with an alcohol problem, has a child and starts writing critical articles about society. Later she moves to Hollywood with the theatrical director turned film maker, Colin Burke, still trying to find fulfilment in marriage and in her professional life.
Meanwhile, Rudolph appears to me as a man driven to extreme reactions by his goal of becoming rich, fast. While Gretchen is sleeping around, Rudy denies himself everything until he makes his fortune. With almost ruthless purpose, he starts work right after college in a local convenience shop, Calderwood, while making friends with a Wall Street broker he meets at one of his sister’s parties.
He listens avidly to his Professor Denton economic talks, but extracts from them mostly what will help him advance in life, ignoring the warnings. What Rudy actually hears is that it is better to be rich than poor.
“The American economy,” he had said in class, “is a rigged crap table, with loaded dice. The laws are carefully arranged so that the Rich throw only sevens and everybody else throws only snake-eyes.”
“It’s in Geneva,” Denton said. “I want to get out of this goddamn country.”
Professor Denton is important here also for the chapters about the McCarthy show trials and the way people kept quiet in order to avoid the spotlight falling on them and getting on the infamous black lists. Unfortunately, it feels like these problems are coming back with a vengeance in 2025.
Rudolph Jordache has a longer journey than Gretchen and Thomas to get out of the rat race. He makes his fortune, stepping on a lot of toes but also working hard 24 hours a day, seven days a week. He eventually meets a beautiful and intelligent New York photographer named Jean, and starts to reassess his priorities.
“I’m not domestic,” Jean had said stubbornly. “I don’t like small towns. I’m on my way up in this city. I’m not going to give it all up just because a man wants to marry me.”
Thomas leads his life forward with his fists, moving from town to town and constantly getting in trouble. He eventually becomes a boxer, wins several matches then enters a downward spiral that puts him on a mob hit list. He flees America and works on a tramp trawler, trying to keep a low profile, until he meets a man named Falconetti.
Sure, Falconetti was a pig and deserved a lesson, but the lesson should have ended somewhere else than in the middle of the Atlantic.
I don’t remember much from the TV series. I was 12 or 13 when it run and was interested mainly in the boxing details. Falconetti is the only name from the series that actually stayed in my mind, as a very scary and dark adversary to the blond hero. In the book, his role is crucial, but I think much reduced compared to the TV movie. I need to rewatch the series, but so far I only found poor DVD transfers of only the first six episodes.
>>><<<>>><<<
Coming back to the book, there’s not much I can add without spoilers. I liked the fact that the tree main characters are not static. They evolve at the pace the American society as a whole changes, their values in flux, their relationship to each other getting closer and more candid as they accept and internalize the traumas of the past.
Eventually, the next generation of Jordaches, represented by Billy and Wesley, will have to make a similar journey to that of their parents, just as Rudy, Gretchen and Tom did in order to free themselves of the curse of Mary and Axel.
I hope my last bookmarks are self-sufficient and don’t need context.
Rudolph, on accepting his family heritage:
Duties never end. It is their essential characteristic.
Jean, observing the world around her though the lens of her camera:
Hardship and age, she tells me, preferably the two together, tell more about the character of a people and country than anything else.
Tom, finally finding peace away from the American rat race:
“Tom,” Rudolph said, “don’t you ever miss America?”
“What’s America done for me?” Thomas said. “I don’t care if I never see it again after this time.”
I plan to read the sequel, ‘Beggarman, Thief’ , even as I am aware that it has lower ratings overall. I got attached to the Jordache saga.
June 4, 2021
Чудна, чудна! Принципно не си падам по епоси без видима мистерия, но Шоу е толкова човечен и спокоен (два минуса правят плюс), същевременно загадъчен в изграждането на героите, че нямаш търпение да прочетеш кой какъв ще излезе накрая
June 23, 2015
این کتاب را من با نام داراوندار ترجمه اقای مهدی افشار خواندم ..رمانی جذاب وخوشخوان از داستانهای امریکایی ..
داستان با جنگ جهانی دوم به سال 1945 آغاز میشود ..داستان واقعگراست ویک خانواده امریکایی را به نمایش میکشد .خانواده ای که در پی یک سری حوادث در روابط پنهان واشکار با بیرون وجامعه پیوند میخورند .در نهایت کیفیت وجودی جامعه امریکایی را برای ما نشان میدهند ..یعنی نویسنده باز افرینی واقعیت میکند ایرون شاو با زبردستی وتوانایی خاص نفسیات خانوداه جورداش را در بخش های جداگانه که در عین حال به طور قدرتمندی با هم پیوند دارند به نمایش میگذارد ..اکسل جورداش پدر خانواده//ماری جورداش مادر بیمار وپراز اندوه //رودلف چهره محبوب داستان //گرتچن دختر زیبا اما سرخورده خانواده واخرین عضو خانواده که من خیلی دوستش داشتم توماس جوانک پرخاشگر وجنگجو ...نویسنده با نگاهی نقادانه گاهی توماس را نقش میزند ووقتی توماس به بلوغ فکری دست می یابد از او شخصیت دیگری میسازد ....اینان خانواده جورداش هستند ..شخصیت های اصلی رمان که در کنار انها ادمهایی مثل تدی بویلان ثروتمند نیز ظاهر میشوند که در اندیشه بهره کشی ادمها هستند ونویسنده نیم نگاه نقدانه ای به جامعه سرمایه داری دارد ..اما در جلد سوم مترجم میگوید که بعد از پایان بردن جلد اول ودوم کتاب احساس کرده داستان نیمه کاره مانده وقصه حتما دنباله ای دارد که در پی یک اتفاق به طور تصادفی جلد سوم انرا همه یافته وترجمه نموده است ...داستان بسیار شیرین خواندنی وبی نهایت زیبا قلم زده شده است ..
داستان با جنگ جهانی دوم به سال 1945 آغاز میشود ..داستان واقعگراست ویک خانواده امریکایی را به نمایش میکشد .خانواده ای که در پی یک سری حوادث در روابط پنهان واشکار با بیرون وجامعه پیوند میخورند .در نهایت کیفیت وجودی جامعه امریکایی را برای ما نشان میدهند ..یعنی نویسنده باز افرینی واقعیت میکند ایرون شاو با زبردستی وتوانایی خاص نفسیات خانوداه جورداش را در بخش های جداگانه که در عین حال به طور قدرتمندی با هم پیوند دارند به نمایش میگذارد ..اکسل جورداش پدر خانواده//ماری جورداش مادر بیمار وپراز اندوه //رودلف چهره محبوب داستان //گرتچن دختر زیبا اما سرخورده خانواده واخرین عضو خانواده که من خیلی دوستش داشتم توماس جوانک پرخاشگر وجنگجو ...نویسنده با نگاهی نقادانه گاهی توماس را نقش میزند ووقتی توماس به بلوغ فکری دست می یابد از او شخصیت دیگری میسازد ....اینان خانواده جورداش هستند ..شخصیت های اصلی رمان که در کنار انها ادمهایی مثل تدی بویلان ثروتمند نیز ظاهر میشوند که در اندیشه بهره کشی ادمها هستند ونویسنده نیم نگاه نقدانه ای به جامعه سرمایه داری دارد ..اما در جلد سوم مترجم میگوید که بعد از پایان بردن جلد اول ودوم کتاب احساس کرده داستان نیمه کاره مانده وقصه حتما دنباله ای دارد که در پی یک اتفاق به طور تصادفی جلد سوم انرا همه یافته وترجمه نموده است ...داستان بسیار شیرین خواندنی وبی نهایت زیبا قلم زده شده است ..
July 9, 2009
Like so many Americans in the 70s, I fell into Shaw's grasp after seeing the mini-series version of Rich Man, Poor Man. As I understand it, this was the first mini series. It was soon followed by Roots, Winds of War, about a dozen Sidney Sheldon stories, and more.
After seeing the mini series I read the book and found fell in love with it. This is the story of two brothers, one is a good student, a natural leader, and destined for the good life. The other is a trouble maker and a gifted fighter.
Hyperbole? Hell yes. The tough brother becomes a contender for a world boxing title while the other is among the most successful businessmen in America.
SPOILER---SPOILER---SPOILER---SPOILER----SPOILER---SPOILER---SPOILER
But something interesting happens along the way. The tough guy softens and the smart guy hardens and the brother who finds happiness is not the one you expected.
After seeing the mini series I read the book and found fell in love with it. This is the story of two brothers, one is a good student, a natural leader, and destined for the good life. The other is a trouble maker and a gifted fighter.
Hyperbole? Hell yes. The tough brother becomes a contender for a world boxing title while the other is among the most successful businessmen in America.
SPOILER---SPOILER---SPOILER---SPOILER----SPOILER---SPOILER---SPOILER
But something interesting happens along the way. The tough guy softens and the smart guy hardens and the brother who finds happiness is not the one you expected.
January 27, 2024
Тази книга ме замисли защо толкова класики проследяват живота на героите си от началото до края му, а толкова съвременни книги рядко го правят? Със сигурност има такива, но просто ми изглеждат недостатъчно или не съм попадала на много от тях, а е толкова обогатяващо и замислящо да прочетеш за съдбата на цял един род и всички в него.
"Богат, беден" през цялото време някак ми напомняше за "Тютюн", от която като най-голяма тема ми е останала връзката между морала и парите. Дали парите водят до душевен упадък, дали те правят по-циничен и безочен, дали има хора, които са предопредели да ги имат в излишество и такива, които ги смятат за мръсни и не ги искат. Дали всичко това зависи от възпитанието и начина, по който сме израснали?
Но тук се прокрадват и толкова други емоции - ще защитиш ли винаги семейството си, можеш ли да го направиш, ако нямаш пари, с други средства? С разбиране, морална подкрепа, с юмруците си дори. Могат ли те да отнемат живот на непознат и да спасят този на близък? Докъде си готов да стигнеш в стремежа си към добър живот, който за някого значи богатство, за друг значи синът ти да те обича и да има за кого да се грижиш, за трети значи да гледаш морето всеки ден. И веднъж стигнал ли си там, готов ли си за жертваш всичко за семейството?
Една книга, която е винаги актуална и ще замисли всеки, който има търпението да се вслуша :)
"Богат, беден" през цялото време някак ми напомняше за "Тютюн", от която като най-голяма тема ми е останала връзката между морала и парите. Дали парите водят до душевен упадък, дали те правят по-циничен и безочен, дали има хора, които са предопредели да ги имат в излишество и такива, които ги смятат за мръсни и не ги искат. Дали всичко това зависи от възпитанието и начина, по който сме израснали?
Но тук се прокрадват и толкова други емоции - ще защитиш ли винаги семейството си, можеш ли да го направиш, ако нямаш пари, с други средства? С разбиране, морална подкрепа, с юмруците си дори. Могат ли те да отнемат живот на непознат и да спасят този на близък? Докъде си готов да стигнеш в стремежа си към добър живот, който за някого значи богатство, за друг значи синът ти да те обича и да има за кого да се грижиш, за трети значи да гледаш морето всеки ден. И веднъж стигнал ли си там, готов ли си за жертваш всичко за семейството?
Една книга, която е винаги актуална и ще замисли всеки, който има търпението да се вслуша :)
July 3, 2020
Започнах да чета "Богат, беден" от Ъруин Шоу една вечер, малко на шега. От време на време обичам да прочитам по някоя класика, а това е книга която присъства в библиотеките на няколко близки за мен хора, та ми беше хванала окото още преди години.
За историята в този роман не знаех много, да не кажа хич - подозирах само, че ще става въпрос за вечното разделение и противопоставяне между различните класи в обществото. В крайна сметка това се оказа преди всичко семейна и житейска история, а да чета за живота и превратностите му на мен никога не ми е скучно. Книгата е много добре написана и "разказана", за своите 704 страници е неочаквано динамична и поне според мен липсваха пълнежи или тягостни моменти. Героите са пълнокръвни, добре изградени и ситуациите в които попадаха бяха много интересни за проследяване... личните им истории бяха отражение на действителността, в която живееха - романът, освен класика и драма е малко или много исторически, защото автора ни прави свитедели на някои събития от миналото и животът в Америка и Европа през 40-те, та до края 60-те години на миналия век.
Оставам с добри впечатления от Ъруин Шоу и със сигурност след време ще прочета и продължението - "Просяк, крадец", ще ми бъде любопитно да прекарам още малко време с членовете на семейство Джордах.
За историята в този роман не знаех много, да не кажа хич - подозирах само, че ще става въпрос за вечното разделение и противопоставяне между различните класи в обществото. В крайна сметка това се оказа преди всичко семейна и житейска история, а да чета за живота и превратностите му на мен никога не ми е скучно. Книгата е много добре написана и "разказана", за своите 704 страници е неочаквано динамична и поне според мен липсваха пълнежи или тягостни моменти. Героите са пълнокръвни, добре изградени и ситуациите в които попадаха бяха много интересни за проследяване... личните им истории бяха отражение на действителността, в която живееха - романът, освен класика и драма е малко или много исторически, защото автора ни прави свитедели на някои събития от миналото и животът в Америка и Европа през 40-те, та до края 60-те години на миналия век.
Оставам с добри впечатления от Ъруин Шоу и със сигурност след време ще прочета и продължението - "Просяк, крадец", ще ми бъде любопитно да прекарам още малко време с членовете на семейство Джордах.
September 4, 2025
Тропи:
• сімейна сага;
• пошук американської мрії - її темна сторона;
• контрастні персонажі;
• родинні травми;
• успіх як порожнеча
Мої враження:
ніколи б не могла подумати, що за цей рік здолаю одразу дві класичних цеглини, але для себе зрозуміла, що сімейні саги - моя нова любов
не можу виділити тут улюбленого персонажа, бо кожен з них полюбився мені по-своєму
трохи розчарована в Ґретхен, бо ця жінка так і не знайшла себе, дуже шкода Рудольфа, бо він заслуговував кращого і Том ака моя біль 😢
його життя аж ніяк не так мало скластись
загалом, чудово написана історія з живими персонажами
Цікавий факт: є продовження під назвою “Beggarman, Thief”, але воно не здобуло такої популярності, як перша частина (ну, я б почитала 🧐)
Цитати:
«Я завжди намагаюся виглядати здоровим і привабливим, — пояснив Бойлан Рудольфу. — Навіть якщо тижнями нікого не бачу. Це форма самоповаги.»
«Кейт, щоразу, коли я тебе кохаю, я забуваю хоч одну погану річ у своєму житті.»
«Наші недоліки — це те, що нас об’єднує. Варто визнати їх.»
• сімейна сага;
• пошук американської мрії - її темна сторона;
• контрастні персонажі;
• родинні травми;
• успіх як порожнеча
Мої враження:
ніколи б не могла подумати, що за цей рік здолаю одразу дві класичних цеглини, але для себе зрозуміла, що сімейні саги - моя нова любов
не можу виділити тут улюбленого персонажа, бо кожен з них полюбився мені по-своєму
трохи розчарована в Ґретхен, бо ця жінка так і не знайшла себе, дуже шкода Рудольфа, бо він заслуговував кращого і Том ака моя біль 😢
його життя аж ніяк не так мало скластись
загалом, чудово написана історія з живими персонажами
Цікавий факт: є продовження під назвою “Beggarman, Thief”, але воно не здобуло такої популярності, як перша частина (ну, я б почитала 🧐)
Цитати:
«Я завжди намагаюся виглядати здоровим і привабливим, — пояснив Бойлан Рудольфу. — Навіть якщо тижнями нікого не бачу. Це форма самоповаги.»
«Кейт, щоразу, коли я тебе кохаю, я забуваю хоч одну погану річ у своєму житті.»
«Наші недоліки — це те, що нас об’єднує. Варто визнати їх.»
February 3, 2021
Класиката си е красика. Какви образи, какъв сюжет, колко идеално всичко си пасва! (Правех неволни сравнения с "Малък живот", която по размах е съпоставима с тази, и сравнението не е в полза на втората.)
November 11, 2016
Here's another book that turned up on my newsfeed and I was reminded of how much I enjoyed this novel when I read it decades ago. Even if the writing didn't blow me away, I couldn't help being swept up by the story and the characters. It's just plain great storytelling.
August 2, 2020
Great book. So glad I finally read it.
December 28, 2024
Определено трябва да се прочете! Харесах много историята и начина на представяне на историята, която просто няма как да те остави равнодушен
May 30, 2022
Очаквах повече дълбочина. Иначе нелоша книга. Бих гледал и сериала, но продължение няма да чета.
March 8, 2024
«Everyone has their own troubles and concerns»
One of the most interesting family stories on my reading journey. The author’s fascinating language, the incredible depth of immersion from the first lines did not let go. I read slowly, as usual it happens to me with addictive and emotionally responsive books. And yes, there will be no sweet story here, on the contrary, the characters are so ambiguous that they periodically start to shake from the actions of some. Clear favourites did not appear throughout the story, until the final, when the nervous system could not withstand such a turn of events and left in a state of shock. That’s when I felt that I got attached, you can even say, I was related to the characters.
The story of the family of Axel Jordach, who came from Germany, who in the United States married an orphan from the Mary Monastery. Children: Gretchen, Rudolph and Thomas. Mother and father have a favourite Rudolph. The rest of the children are not interested in them. All they do is for the sake of Rudolf, the hope for a bright future for the family. The incredibly abusive relationship between father and household members and an unbearably detached indifferent early ageing mother caused an association with Archibald Cronin «Brody’s Castle»
Most of the story shows the development, dreams and desires of children. They are so different that the story of each is like a novel in a novel. Someone will inherit an increased sexual appetite and a desire for a luxurious life, someone bets on education and career, and someone just goes with the flow.
In addition to family values and the desire for the American dream, there is an emphasis on greed, greed, greed, deception and fraud. Life in the United States revolves around money. Law firms, trade and oil business, and of course politics perfectly reflect the era of that time.
But sooner or later the heroes begin to reach the fact that power, money and success are temporary. After all, fluctuations in stock quotes can lead to poverty at one moment, and to lose power and glory, it is enough just to make the wrong decision. And therefore, the separated sister and brothers will take careful steps towards family reunification, establish relationships and help solve the issues of fathers and children.
This work is so multifaceted that you can’t tell about it in a nutshell. But if you like voluminous family sagas with ambiguous heroes and actions, be sure to read.
One of the most interesting family stories on my reading journey. The author’s fascinating language, the incredible depth of immersion from the first lines did not let go. I read slowly, as usual it happens to me with addictive and emotionally responsive books. And yes, there will be no sweet story here, on the contrary, the characters are so ambiguous that they periodically start to shake from the actions of some. Clear favourites did not appear throughout the story, until the final, when the nervous system could not withstand such a turn of events and left in a state of shock. That’s when I felt that I got attached, you can even say, I was related to the characters.
The story of the family of Axel Jordach, who came from Germany, who in the United States married an orphan from the Mary Monastery. Children: Gretchen, Rudolph and Thomas. Mother and father have a favourite Rudolph. The rest of the children are not interested in them. All they do is for the sake of Rudolf, the hope for a bright future for the family. The incredibly abusive relationship between father and household members and an unbearably detached indifferent early ageing mother caused an association with Archibald Cronin «Brody’s Castle»
Most of the story shows the development, dreams and desires of children. They are so different that the story of each is like a novel in a novel. Someone will inherit an increased sexual appetite and a desire for a luxurious life, someone bets on education and career, and someone just goes with the flow.
In addition to family values and the desire for the American dream, there is an emphasis on greed, greed, greed, deception and fraud. Life in the United States revolves around money. Law firms, trade and oil business, and of course politics perfectly reflect the era of that time.
But sooner or later the heroes begin to reach the fact that power, money and success are temporary. After all, fluctuations in stock quotes can lead to poverty at one moment, and to lose power and glory, it is enough just to make the wrong decision. And therefore, the separated sister and brothers will take careful steps towards family reunification, establish relationships and help solve the issues of fathers and children.
This work is so multifaceted that you can’t tell about it in a nutshell. But if you like voluminous family sagas with ambiguous heroes and actions, be sure to read.
January 5, 2023
Ամերիկյան բարքերի քաոս, ճակատագրերի խառնաշփոթ, միաժամանակ շատ հետաքրքիր պատմություն
Գիրքն իսկապես «Քաոսի» ամերիկյան տարբերակն է, բայց շատ ավելի տարօրինակ շրջադարձերով ու այլ արժեքներով: Պատմությունը մի ընտանիքի մասին է, որում մեծ են երեք երեխա՝ բարոյան բարձր արժեքներով մեծ քույրը, գերազանցիկ և խելացի մեծ եղբայրը և չարաճճի ու խուլիգան փոքր եղբայրը: Ի՞նչ կտան նրանց կրոնամոլ մայրն ու գումար խնայելու մոլուցքով հայրը և ինչպես կդասավորվի նրանց կյանքը: Վստահ եղեք՝ չեք գուշակի:
Պատմությունն, իսկապես, շատ հետաքրքիր էր և մատուցված էր շատ գեղեցիկ: Սյուժետային շրջադարձերը... Պարզապես հարգանքս հեղինակին:
Շատ հետաքրքիր է նաև մատուցման ոճը: Ընթերցողը միաժամանակ հետևում է երեք հերոսի կյանքին: Դա, ի զարմանս ինձ, բավական լավ միտք է:
Փիլիսոփայական տեսանկյունից գիրքը նույնպես չէր կաղում: Ամերիկյան դեմոկրատիան, կապիտալիզմն ու բարոյականությունը այս շատ հետաքրքիր կերպով են ներկայացված, իսկ մարդկանց ապրումները զգում ես մաշկիդ վրա:
Բավական հետաքրքիր ստեղծագործություն, խորհուրդ եմ տալիս անպայման ծանոթանալ:
Գիրքն իսկապես «Քաոսի» ամերիկյան տարբերակն է, բայց շատ ավելի տարօրինակ շրջադարձերով ու այլ արժեքներով: Պատմությունը մի ընտանիքի մասին է, որում մեծ են երեք երեխա՝ բարոյան բարձր արժեքներով մեծ քույրը, գերազանցիկ և խելացի մեծ եղբայրը և չարաճճի ու խուլիգան փոքր եղբայրը: Ի՞նչ կտան նրանց կրոնամոլ մայրն ու գումար խնայելու մոլուցքով հայրը և ինչպես կդասավորվի նրանց կյանքը: Վստահ եղեք՝ չեք գուշակի:
Պատմությունն, իսկապես, շատ հետաքրքիր էր և մատուցված էր շատ գեղեցիկ: Սյուժետային շրջադարձերը... Պարզապես հարգանքս հեղինակին:
Շատ հետաքրքիր է նաև մատուցման ոճը: Ընթերցողը միաժամանակ հետևում է երեք հերոսի կյանքին: Դա, ի զարմանս ինձ, բավական լավ միտք է:
Փիլիսոփայական տեսանկյունից գիրքը նույնպես չէր կաղում: Ամերիկյան դեմոկրատիան, կապիտալիզմն ու բարոյականությունը այս շատ հետաքրքիր կերպով են ներկայացված, իսկ մարդկանց ապրումները զգում ես մաշկիդ վրա:
Բավական հետաքրքիր ստեղծագործություն, խորհուրդ եմ տալիս անպայման ծանոթանալ:
August 3, 2024
Много ми хареса тази семейна сага с всичките си премеждия и поуки за семейство Джордах. Няма как да я коментирам без спойлери, но краят ме разочарова и ми стоеше някак незавършено. Това, което се случи, можеше да се случи като резултат на толкова много места в романа.... а се случи, когато бях толкова щастлива за промяната в този герой. Да, разбирам смисъла на стореното и да, така наистина има повече драма и смисъл, но все пак в мен остана едно чувство на неудовлетвореност от края на сюжетните линии.
Много ми хареса изграждането на сюжета и тези безброй малки истории в историята, преплитането и надграждането им до цялостна картина. Брилянтен разказвач и писател е Ървин Шоу. Ще прочета и продължението.
Много ми хареса изграждането на сюжета и тези безброй малки истории в историята, преплитането и надграждането им до цялостна картина. Брилянтен разказвач и писател е Ървин Шоу. Ще прочета и продължението.
August 28, 2016
So sad I didn't read it when it was a huge success back in the 90's because now, even when I really enjoyed, it seemed to me a little old fashioned. It's catchy and you get involved in it, but the style and the story itself seems so... 90's! The typical american story of success, with the "dark" side of poverty and failure, portrayed in the "poor man". This last one, Thomas, ended up being, in my opinion, the most wonderful character. Not only because of his final sacrifice, but because he seemed to me a more interesting, emotional, deep character than Rudolph or Gretchen. Rudy, the all american boy, successful, rich and handsome, is sometimes really annoying because of his rigidness, stubborness and cruelty, and Gretchen, the third essential sibling -unfairly and completely forgotten in the title-, is portrayed as a weak woman when I think she could have been one of the richest characters of this book. Nice reading. Nothing spectacular.
November 23, 2011
I read the book in Russian, and span through its 500+ pages in a couple of days: it is such an easy, vivid read, and the characters really drew me in. I kept on expecting more drama, though, more of conclusion... I guess, the genius of the book is in the characters, who, with their strengths and weaknesses are just people. They are not "archetypes" but simple people, traumatized by the childhood in different degrees and coping with it through their lives as they can and see possible. I liked Rudy the best: he really had a goal in life, and me, being more of a "going with the flow" person, really enjoyed reading about submitting all to the main issue in life: at the same time, he was doing the best he could for the relatives. I doubt though he will ever let his heart open... but it will save him lots of pain, even if by the price of the fullness of life experience...
I am off to read the Book Two...
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