Lysis/Symposium/Gorgias

by Plato, W.R.M. Lamb (Translator)

Athenian philosopher Plato was born in 427 BCE. An admirer of Socrates in early manhood, he later founded the school of philosophy in the grove Academus. Much recorded of his life is uncertain; that he left Athens for a time after Socrates' execution is probable; that later he went to Cyrene, Egypt & Sicily is possible; that he was wealthy is likely; that he was critical of democracy is obvious. He lived to be 80. Linguistic tests including those of computer science try to establish the order of his extant philosophical dialogs, written in splendid prose, revealing Socrates' mind fused with Plato's thought.
In Laches, Charmides & Lysis, Socrates & others discuss separate ethical conceptions. Protagoras, Ion & Meno discuss whether righteousness is teachable. In Gorgias, Socrates is estranged from his city's thought. His fate is impending. The Apology (not a dialog), Crito, Euthyphro and Phaedo relate the trial & death of Socrates & propound the soul's immortality. In Symposium & Phaedrus, written when Socrates was still alive, we find the origin & meaning of love. Cratylus discusses the nature of language. The ten books of the Republic concern righteousness (& involves education, sex equality, the structure of society & abolition of slavery). Of the six so-called dialectical dialogs Euthydemus deals with philosophy; metaphysical Parmenides is about general concepts & absolute being; Theaetetus reasons about epistemology. Of its sequels, Sophist deals with not-being; Politicus with good & bad statesmanship & governments; Philebus with what is good. Timaeus seeks the origin of the visible cosmos out of abstract geometrical elements. Unfinished Critias treats of lost Atlantis. Unfinished also is Plato's last work of the twelve books of Laws (Socrates absent), a discussion of principles of law which Plato thought Greeks might accept.
The Loeb Classical Library's Plato is in twelve volumes.

Genres: Philosophy, Classics, Nonfiction, Ancient

560 pages, Hardcover

First published January 1, 381

About the author

Plato (Greek: Πλάτων), born Aristocles (c. 427 – 348 BC), was an ancient Greek philosopher of the Classical period who is considered a foundational thinker in Western philosophy and an innovator of the written dialogue and dialectic forms. He raised problems for what became all the major areas of both theoretical philosophy and practical philosophy, and was the founder of the Platonic Academy, a philosophical school in Athens where Plato taught the doctrines that would later become known as Platonism.
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."

Reviews

[Buck · Rating 5 out of 5]

It’s probably significant that Classical Greek has no exact equivalent for our word ‘love’. English gets by with a single, overworked monosyllable, but the Greeks subcontracted out the various nuances to three or four different words. So there’s agapē, for one, which connotes a higher, more ethereal sort of affection; not surprisingly, it turns up a lot in the New Testament. Another is philia, which is what you feel for a friend, say, or a favourite TV show. And finally there’s the notorious eros, the down and dirty kind of love, with the grunting and the moaning.

Does all this semantic delegating mean that the Greeks were better at emotional compartmentalization than we are? I doubt it, but it might mean they were better at conceptual compartmentalization. There’s an old theory that the Greek language was uniquely adapted to philosophical speculation. Heidegger subscribed to this notion, I believe, though he also awarded German an honourable mention (naturally).

The Symposium, then, is all about eros. So when you read it in English, and the word ‘love’ keeps popping up, you have to remember they’re mostly talking about s-e-x. Not exclusively, but a lot of the time.

But enough highbrow chitchat. Now for some ethnic humour.

Q: How do they separate the men from the boys in Greece?
A: With a crowbar.

Now, I wouldn’t want to generalize on the basis of a dumb joke, but it’s well known that all Greek men are pederasts. Fact. This is another thing to keep in mind about the Symposium. By and large, it’s not concerned with sweet, romantic boy-girl love. It’s more about sweaty, angry, man-boy love. Bathhouse love. Just a word of warning in case you’re turning to Plato for Cosmo-style relationship advice. Unless you’re a member of NAMBLA, you’d best look elsewhere. (I can’t believe I just googled ‘man-boy love’ to find that acronym. Mental note: delete search history).

Yet, despite (what I think of as) my raging heterosexuality, I consider Alcibiades’ speech at the end of the Symposium one of the most moving passages in Greek literature. Not only is it a sly, ironic treatment of the eros theme; it’s also a vivid portrait of Socrates the man, in all his oddness and nobility.

The way Plato sets it up is kind of beautiful. Socrates and his drinking buddies have been holding a long, civilized debate about the nature of love. Just when everyone’s getting a bit groggy, Alcibiades, the handsome playboy, crashes the party. He’s drunk off his ass, with a laurel wreath set jauntily on his head and a bevy of flute girls attending him. He’s talking too loud and being a bit of a jerk. Hijacking the conversation, he demands the floor and, with a drunk’s honesty, tells the story of the hopeless crush he had on Socrates years before. In his youth, Alcibiades had been your standard Mediterranean boy toy—he was hot and he knew it. So he throws himself at Socrates, hoping to trade on his good looks in return for intellectual guidance. Socrates, however, just smiles indulgently, gives him a paternal pat on the shoulder and sends him on his way. Wtf, dude? is Alcibiades’ reaction, in so many words.

There’s a lot more to the speech (including an interesting bit about how Socrates once saved Alcibiades’ life on the battlefield) but that’s the emotional kernel. It’s a great monologue, half-mocking and half-affectionate, and by the end of it Alcibiades has them rolling in the aisles. It’s pretty clear to everybody, though, that he’s still ruefully in love with the old guy.

And that’s about it. The party breaks up near dawn, with only Socrates and a couple of others staying behind. His companions are nodding off, but Socrates is still in full flow. The last thing they remember before falling asleep is Socrates explaining that it should be possible for the same man to write a great tragedy and a great comedy. Finally, he covers the others up with a blanket, tiptoes out, goes to the Lyceum for a shvitz, and “then spends the rest of the day in his ordinary fashion,” no worse for the wear. It’s a perfect ending. It’s Shane riding away; it’s Rick and Captain Renault walking into the fog together; it’s Judd Nelson traipsing across the football field. Gets me every time, damn it.

[Mimi · Rating 3 out of 5]

3½ out of 5 stars

I can hardly suppose that you will affirm a man to be a good poet who injures himself by his poetry.

(from Lysis)

[Artie · Rating 4 out of 5]

The Symposium is probably the most famous of the three dialogues contained herein, but the Gorgias was the standout for me. Delightful reading. Check out Benjamin Jowett's intros if you'd like some context before you dive into the dialogues.

[Husnain · Rating 5 out of 5]

very nice

[Jess · Rating 5 out of 5]

Read Lysis from this translation.

[Kevin · Rating 5 out of 5]

The symposium is Greek for "kegger", and Gorgias is my favorite Plato. Callicles is arguably his best character. You'll find Plato hilarious if you catch his subtle jokes. The Greek text is included in this edition, should you aspire to become a scholar.

[Jonathan]

Loeb Classical Library No. 166