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Debates with Historians
Excellent Book
- GenresHistory
112 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 1958
About the author
Pieter Geyl
73 books12 followersDutch historian and Historiographer. His main focus was Dutch history and the birth of the Dutch as a nation.
Geyl also was one of the first promoters of the "Greater-Netherlands" idea, which goal is a unification of the Netherlands and Flanders in one country.
During the second world war he was forbidden to publish and was interned for a couple of years.
Geyl also was one of the first promoters of the "Greater-Netherlands" idea, which goal is a unification of the Netherlands and Flanders in one country.
During the second world war he was forbidden to publish and was interned for a couple of years.
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Displaying 1 - 5 of 5 reviews
August 6, 2024
A DUTCH HISTORIAN INTERACTS WITH SEVEN HISTORIANS
Pieter Catharinus Arie Geyl (1887-1966) was a Dutch historian, known for his studies in early modern Dutch history and in historiography; his dialogue with Arnold Toynbee is recorded in the book 'The Pattern of the Past: Can We Determine It?' He wrote in the Preface to the First (1955) edition, "The essays here collected deal with a variety of subjects, but in all of them the author will be seen at grips with problems belonging to the same order." (Pg. 7)
Although he deals with Ranke, Carlyle, Michelet, Macaulay, Sorokin, and Berlin, Arnold Toynbee is a particular focus of his. He summarizes Toynbee's A Study of History
: Abridgement of Volumes I-VI, "To survey history as a whole, to discover trends in its movement, to seek out its meaning---Professor Toynbee is not the first to undertake the attempt. He joins the company of St. Augustine and Bousset, Condorcet, Hegel, Marx, Buckle, Wells, Spengler; nor is he the least among them... Toynbee lives with the Bible, and its texts lie scattered thickly over his pages." (Pg. 109)
He argues, Toynbee "selects the instances which will support his theses, or he presents them in the way that suits him, and he does so with an assurance that hardly leaves room for the suspicion not only that one might quote innumerable others with which his theses would not bear company but especially that those cases he does mention can be explained or described in a different way so as to disagree no less completely with his theses." (Pg. 116)
He points out, "In the theoretical development of his system Professor Toynbee poses a dilemma: a civilization is either in growth of it is in disintegration... one is surprised at his leaving open the question as to the state in which we find ourselves." (Pg. 140) He concludes, "this prophet [Toynbee] usurps the name of historian and... I regard his prophecy as a blasphemy against Western civilization." (Pg. 202)
Geyl's critical look at these historians will be of great value to anyone interested in the philosophy of history.
Pieter Catharinus Arie Geyl (1887-1966) was a Dutch historian, known for his studies in early modern Dutch history and in historiography; his dialogue with Arnold Toynbee is recorded in the book 'The Pattern of the Past: Can We Determine It?' He wrote in the Preface to the First (1955) edition, "The essays here collected deal with a variety of subjects, but in all of them the author will be seen at grips with problems belonging to the same order." (Pg. 7)
Although he deals with Ranke, Carlyle, Michelet, Macaulay, Sorokin, and Berlin, Arnold Toynbee is a particular focus of his. He summarizes Toynbee's A Study of History
: Abridgement of Volumes I-VI, "To survey history as a whole, to discover trends in its movement, to seek out its meaning---Professor Toynbee is not the first to undertake the attempt. He joins the company of St. Augustine and Bousset, Condorcet, Hegel, Marx, Buckle, Wells, Spengler; nor is he the least among them... Toynbee lives with the Bible, and its texts lie scattered thickly over his pages." (Pg. 109)
He argues, Toynbee "selects the instances which will support his theses, or he presents them in the way that suits him, and he does so with an assurance that hardly leaves room for the suspicion not only that one might quote innumerable others with which his theses would not bear company but especially that those cases he does mention can be explained or described in a different way so as to disagree no less completely with his theses." (Pg. 116)
He points out, "In the theoretical development of his system Professor Toynbee poses a dilemma: a civilization is either in growth of it is in disintegration... one is surprised at his leaving open the question as to the state in which we find ourselves." (Pg. 140) He concludes, "this prophet [Toynbee] usurps the name of historian and... I regard his prophecy as a blasphemy against Western civilization." (Pg. 202)
Geyl's critical look at these historians will be of great value to anyone interested in the philosophy of history.
February 18, 2026
A series of essays on various historians and historical events. Erudite and densely argued. A slog at times; at other times interesting and illuminative. He comprehensively demolishes Toynbee and his cycles of civilization. One for the specialist
July 12, 2021
worth the price of admission! Geyl's 'debates' are thoughtful assessments of historiography of academic history c.1820s-1950s.
October 22, 2013
This was one of several books for a historiography class. I found it to be fascinating as well as enlightening. I loved learning how different historians viewed historical events (their premises, prejudices, and presumptions), focused on certain elements (personal preferences, personal prejudices, personal agenda), and gave differing interpretations (ideological, economical, Hegelian, humanistic, marxistic, etc.). History is infinite and unfixable according to Geyl. Ranke is the founder of "objective" history. Of course, that is a pretension, since the most "objective" of objective histories is still not the least subjective of histories. Ranke, Macauley, Carlyle, Michelet, names I had run across but not studied. Then Toynbee, some of whose writings I had read in part. This course in fact took me to Toynbee's opus magnus, "A Study of History," for which direction and discovery I will also be grateful to Geyl and my history professor. The dissertation that followed thereupon was well-received. I believe "Debates with Historians" is one of those books that every "educated" person should read sometime in their life, although home-schoolers may be the only ones with the inclination and earnestness to do so.
December 20, 2016
His take on Macaulay is spot on.
Displaying 1 - 5 of 5 reviews