Republic by Plato, C. D. C. Reeve (2005) Hardcover

by Ernest Barker

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Genres: Philosophy, Classics

Hardcover

First published August 22, 2015

About the author

Sir Ernest Barker FBA (1874 - 1960) was an English political scientist who served as Principal of King's College London from 1920 to 1927.

Barker was educated at Manchester Grammar School and Balliol College, Oxford. He was a don at Oxford and spent a brief time at the London School of Economics. He was Principal of King's College London from 1920 to 1927, and subsequently became Professor of Political Science in the University of Cambridge in 1928, being the first holder of the chair endowed by the Rockefeller Foundation. In June 1936 he was elected to serve on the Liberal Party Council. He was knighted in 1944. He was elected a Foreign Honorary Member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 1958. There is a memorial stone to him in St Botolph's Church, Cambridge.

Reviews

[Madeleine Liu]

Being wholly unqualified (even by my inflated ego) to judge the merits of Plato, let me say Reeve's translation was a good one, clear, comprehendible, in some cases colloquially modern, and the introduction generally good too. This is the edition recommended by my classics professor at N. Y. U. and I can see why.

[Frederick Heimbach]

Happy to check the Plato's Republic box.

[Claudia]

socrates highkey the og ragebaiter

[David Calhoun]

Good stuff, got a lot out of it in class with the translator and Plato scholar

[Caroline Stein]

Socrates is a professional yapper who is allergic to coming to conclusions.

[Rafe Kelley]

Reading Plato’s Republic is, I think, second only to reading the Bible for understanding the broader Western canon.

It is essential. And while I had secondhand knowledge of many of the arguments and parables in the book beforehand, reading it firsthand was full of surprises.

I found much to disagree with, but there were moments of such searing insight and prescience that they left me shocked.

In Socrates’ breakdown of different political constitutions, we find a critique that so closely fits the dynamics of our current political world that it left me first distressed and then strangely sanguine. If these cycles have been playing out for over two thousand years, perhaps investing myself too much in them is absurd.

The famous parable of the cave offers far more in the full telling than in the truncated version most of us know. I found a deep resonance in the analogy of the cave. It powerfully captures the ways in which knowledge that violates common narratives isolates and alienates us, how hard it is to help someone understand what they are blind to, and how new insight can be both overwhelming and disorienting. The cave is a perennial allegory for very good reasons. I found myself astonished by the insight Socrates or Plato must have had to produce an allegory that has proved inexhaustible in its value.

However, within that analogy I also think Plato/Socrates made a mistake that has bedeviled Western philosophy and religion ever since: a tradition that treats the body, the earth, and the external world as less real than the heavenly, the internal, the inward, and the mental.

Socrates says, “The world revealed through sight should be likened to the prison dwelling…”—that is, the cave. “And if you think of the upward journey, and seeing above, as the upward journey of the soul to the intelligible realm, you won’t mistake my intention.”

I think what we see in modern cognitive science shows this view is fundamentally mistaken. The most real things—the forms Plato points us toward—are not simply mental abstractions. Rather, they emerge through our relationship with the living world around us.

Wisdom is fundamentally about the relationship between the agent and the arena.

The project of anagoge, or ascent toward wisdom, should therefore not be solely inward and away from the physical world, but rather a movement toward greater awareness of the living world and how we participate in it.


The book is called The Republic, but it begins as a meditation on justice and returns to the justice of the individual after laying out the justice of the state. The dialogue’s aim is as much the cultivation of character as the articulation of an ideal political constitution. Interestingly, it finishes with meditations on the afterlife, divine justice, the immortality of the soul, and reincarnation.

I think The Republic offers incredible insight in its model of character development and its critique of political constitutions. I found the political prescriptions themselves far more ambivalent, as many readers have. And the spiritual meditations at the end were, I thought, surprisingly logically weak—though intriguingly evocative of both Christianity and Hinduism in ways that surprised me.

Of course, this is highly recommended for those ready to take it on.

[Tim]

Plato uses Socrates to espouse that being just is the most important determinant of a good life. This is done by building a “perfect city” and showing how that is the best. This city would be governed by “philosophy” leaders who have the interest of the city above all other interests. These leaders would be developed by rigorous education and physical training that develops the principle of justice in them. This teaches them “the form of the good”. It is by their relationship to it that just things become beneficial. What is truly remarkable about this text is how relevant its description of oligarchy and tyranny are today. There is no space between the approaches and outcomes as elucidated by Socarates as to what is now occurring. I found the argumentative approach tiring and sometimes the logic weak but the lessons timeless even if I didn’t understand everyone.

[Addie]

Plato’s Republic was so interesting. The definitions of justice explored are fascinating, but none claim to be the end-all, be-all. The thought experiment of the city and the allegory of the cave—these famous techniques comes alive and become all the more informative when read within the context of how one should live one’s life, maintain justice within oneself and control over oneself, and understand the three elements (rational, spirited, appetitive) within one. It has been a gift to study this book and others in order to understand the pillars of Platonic philosophy.

[Jordan]

While there are definitely pearls of great wisdom to be found here, reading the whole text is not necessary. Often times I found that the 'Great Truths' being bestowed by Socrates were even out of context or the counterargument to the points he was actually arguing in the text. I think that reading this as a genuine example of how to organize a government may actually be quite dangerous.

My tea: Unless you are reading the actual greek, keep cherry picking.

[Mason McDonald]

This one took a while, but it's great to finally be done. I wasn't a fan of Plato's Symposium, so I went into The Republic without huge expectations, but it turned out to be a much better read. That said, it wasn't easy going the whole way through. There were real slogs, and Book 6 in particular was the hardest part for me to get through. As I usually do with these reviews, I'll start with what was great and end with what was not great in my opinion.

For context, Plato isn't writing in his own voice here. He's staging a dialogue, mainly between Socrates and Glaucon, with other figures like Thrasymachus jumping in along the way. Through Socrates, Plato lays out his vision of an ideal Utopian society, "the Republic."

The Good- Early on I loved Socrates descriptions of Justice. He explained how in order to discover the perfectly just human, said human must bear the pain of having the reputation of an unrighteous person, whilst still choosing to do what is right regardless of the humiliation to come and regardless of the suffering that might be endured. On the flip, the perfectly unjust person will wholeheartedly desire a Just reputation whilst not actually having a real concern for justice in its essence. All of their works are for the sake of upholding that just reputation, they don't do it for the sake of justice alone. If the public eye starts to see through this artificial justice then this person would use force in order to regain the reputation in question. Amidst this dialogue there are, from my Christian lens parallels to Jesus Christ most notably in this quote

The just person must be simple and noble, he does not have the desire to be perceived as good but to actually be so. We must take away his reputation. For a reputation for justice would bring him honor and rewards so that it would not be clear whether he is being just for the sake of justice or for the sake of honor and rewards. We must strip him of everything except justice and make his situation the opposite of the unjust persons. Though he does no injustice he must have the greatest reputation for injustice so that he may be tested with regard to justice by seeing whether or not he can withstand a bad reputation and its consequences. Let him stay like that until he is dead, just however all his life believed to be unjust. Society would say of this just person that he should be whipped, stretched on a rack, chained, blinded with a red hot iron and at the end impaled.

Socrates also posed a question as to what was the purpose of justice if those who most prosper are the unjust? This was answered much later in the book but from what I gathered, according to Socrates the real question is akin to "Why be healthy?" Socrates was claiming that Justice itself is its own reward, the unjust man spends his life enslaved whereas the just man, even executed as Socrates was, finds peace because his soul is ordered. Injustice is a spiritual disease, justice is the health of the soul.

The rest of this review might be a bit unorganized because I am reviewing pages that I took photos of for later reference for this review. Anyhow

On Education: I enjoyed was his breakdown of right education. He claimed that a free person should learn nothing slavishly. He said that we should not use compulsion to train children in a subject, rather we should use play. This will help us see what the child is more naturally suited for.

On Debate: Socrates claimed that a wiser person doesn't participate in debate for the sake of disputation, rather the aim is for dialectical discussion and a look for truth between both parties.

(Unfinished review STILL ADDING SOME QUOTES I WANT TO TALK ABOUT)

[☆ emeline]

this is a must read for everyone. super important truths, but im not gonna lie its a slog

[Ben Gordon]

One of the best classes I’ve ever taken, spent close reading Republic every week and discussing in class. Amazing book with so much packed into it - loved reading and working through it.

[Idwerd de Graaf]

How could I do otherwise? (good translation!)