On Justice, Power and Human Nature: Selections from The History of the Peloponnesian War

by Thucydides, Paul Woodruff (Translator)

Designed for students with little or no background in ancient Greek language and culture, this collection of extracts from The History of the Peloponnesian War includes those passages that shed most light on Thucydides’ political theory--famous as well as important but lesser-known pieces frequently overlooked by nonspecialists. Newly translated into spare, vigorous English, and situated within a connective narrative framework, Woodruff’s selections will be of special interest to instructors in political theory and Greek civilization. Includes maps, notes, glossary.

Genres: History, Classics, Philosophy, Nonfiction, School, Politics, College

172 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1874

About the author

Thucydides (c. 460 B.C. – c. 400 B.C.) (Greek Θουκυδίδης ) was an Athenian historian and general. His History of the Peloponnesian War recounts the fifth-century BC war between Sparta and Athens until the year 411 BC. Thucydides has been dubbed the father of "scientific history" by those who accept his claims to have applied strict standards of impartiality and evidence-gathering and analysis of cause and effect, without reference to intervention by the gods, as outlined in his introduction to his work.
He also has been called the father of the school of political realism, which views the political behavior of individuals and the subsequent outcomes of relations between states as ultimately mediated by, and constructed upon, fear and self-interest. His text is still studied at universities and military colleges worldwide. The Melian dialogue is regarded as a seminal text of international relations theory, while his version of Pericles' Funeral Oration is widely studied by political theorists, historians, and students of the classics.
More generally, Thucydides developed an understanding of human nature to explain behavior in such crises as plagues, massacres, and wars.

Reviews

[John · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is a great book. The introductory essay alone is worth the read. Thucydides was an interesting character in Athenian history. He either had a very modern view of political and military theory or ours is very antiquated. It is relative. However, there is no denying that we can draw parallels between Athens' quarrels and political and social debates in 412 B.C.E. and American issues that are being debated in 2010. Thucydides was theorizing about elements of fascism before the term had even been created. Very good book. As with much of Greek history the speeches are re-created by Thucydides which often leaves more questions about his views and what was really said. But this is a great book for the historian that is familiar with theory, but has not had much background in Greek history. A must read.

[Erini Allen]

This is a collection of selected passages from Thucydides, summarized and translated by Paul Woodruff. It is not a scholarly work in the traditional sense, featuring a stated thesis, supported by analysis of evidence. The scholarship lies in the curation and translations, which present an argument about what Thucydides’ preoccupations and concerns are. Namely, what it means to pursue justice, how power is deployed, and the influence of human nature on actions and outcomes.

I’m finding it thought provoking in the extreme. The way Woodruff puts passages side-by-side has made me not only see things in Thucydides that I had not been consciously aware of before but also think about ancient Greek festivals, and culture at large, from a new perspective. It has made me even more convinced of the need for cross-disciplinary studies.

Here is one of the more famous (at least in the anglophone scholarship I’ve read) passages, rendered three ways:

Thucydides: «κτημα τε σε αιει μάλλον η αγώνισμα ες το παραχρημα ακουειν ξυγκειται.» *

Benjamin Jowett: “My history is an everlasting possession, not a prize composition which is heard and forgotten.”

Rex Warner: “My work is not a piece of writing designed to meet the taste of an immediate public, but was done to last for ever.”

Woodruff: “this was composed to be a lasting possession and not to be heard for a prize at the moment of a contest.”

I would love to hear your thoughts on Thucydides and translations of him (and challenges therein) in the comments, as always.

* note that my modern Greek keyboard does not allow me to reproduce the breathings and accents, so spellings are approximate.

[ashwini · Rating 3 out of 5]

(read for class)

This was a lot harder for me to get through than the other books we’ve read for class, but I did appreciate this discussions that this led to, especially ones about the human condition and power dynamics!

[Shannon MacArthur · Rating 2 out of 5]

Definitely a book! Thanks phil 127 for making me not enjoy greeks!

[Haley · Rating 3 out of 5]

men do this and then call women dramatic

[Lars Ripley · Rating 3 out of 5]

think i should just read the history in its entirety, really liked everything that was included but the constant breaks were distracting, and there were things left out that i wish had been left in

[Ed Barton · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is an easy to read translation of Thucydides covering the more interesting and important excerpts from the Peloponnesian War. Covering the wars opening, key battles and Tue fall of Athens at Syracuse, the monologues are easy to read and demonstrate the commonality of politics and human nature over the millennia. A good read.

[Olivia Rogers · Rating 5 out of 5]

Thuc certainly has his opinions on human nature. Most of them are correct. Fascinating history of the Peloponnesian war & how human reactions stem from fear.

[Matt McCormick · Rating 5 out of 5]

"...they reversed the usual way of using words to evaluate what they did. Ill-considered boldness was counted as loyal manliness; prudent hesitation was held to be cowardice in disguise, and moderation merely the cloak of an unmanly nature. A mind that could grasp the good of the whole was considered wholly lazy. Sudden fury was accepted as part of manly valor, while plotting for one’s own security was thought a reasonable excuse for delaying action. A man who expressed anger was always to be trusted, while one who opposed him was under suspicion."

Any translation, especially one of a nearly forgotten language, is not just the authors words but the impression brought by the translator. And yet, I am always impressed with how a voice from long ago can speak so directly to us today.

Woodruff's work is easily read and well footnoted although some of his points become repetitive. I wished he had offered a bit more context on Thucydides' himself but I realize not a great deal is actually known.

[Ethan Wright · Rating 5 out of 5]

The history is inherently fascinating and reliably keeps my attention, but the cultural and political descriptions are truly captivating. Everything from diseases, military tactics, supply lines, and morale are encompassed in Thucydides’ writing. There truly is nothing new under the sun.

I intend to continue reading the Greeks, particularly Plato as Thucydides’ skepticism towards Athenian democracy mirrors that of Plato. I think it entirely appropriate to reject the shouts of “democracy” or “republic” under the current conversation in political academia. While at risk of anachronism, the parallels to modern geopolitical thought are striking. (Think China/USA or China/Russia)

Overall, if you want a deeper understanding of rugged “real politik” and how political systems (and demagoguery) can influence the masses, this book has some keen insight.

[carson · Rating 3 out of 5]

i had to read sections of this for class and i will say that the sections i read were very easy to follow. i was honestly impressed at the ease i had reading some of the speeches and such.

my favorite one that i think everyone should read because it’s genuinely an amazing speech is pericles’ funeral oration. this one speech has been used as inspiration by three united states presidents, most recently by barack obama. (just a cool fact i learned in class) if you ever get the chance, read at least that.

[Mike Horne · Rating 5 out of 5]

In 2008, I made a New Year's resolution to write a book report for every book that I read (from then on). The only way for me to be successful is to cleave to the quotation, "Better to do things poorly than not at all."

Everyone should read Thucydides. At least read this relatively thin "selections." I wish I had done a close reading with a group.

I am reading this now to prepare for Leo Strauss's The City and Man. It looks at Plato's Republic, Aristotle's Politics, and Thucydides.

[Morgan · Rating 3 out of 5]

Had to read for a class. Hated during the read bc was on a schedule but through reflection the translations and inserts of Woodruff adding context where extremely helpful and the insight made reading easier. Now Thucydides is trying to be a historian but he’s more of a philosopher hiding as a historian (from modern viewpoint). He does a couple things that in modern day are big no nos for historians but considering the time- not bad. How we view history has to evolve throughout it.

[Tyler Edwards · Rating 3 out of 5]

In another life I’d be a history major but alas here we are… its easy to imagine someone writing a book in the past century or so (Jane Eyre, LOTR, etc) but reading works from super far into the past leads me down an existential road. Thucydides was a human just like me, but he lived in such a different world how could we even be the same species?

[Jordan · Rating 3 out of 5]

Me when a once powerful democracy is weakened by a terrible plague leading the the rise of a populist movement which propels the country into oligarchy:🤯

(Me when that oligarchy fails after four months: 🤯)

[Mela Lozano · Rating 3 out of 5]

Great for learning, but something that I wouldn't necessarily take on vacation. More like bedside reading.

[clarino910 · Rating 3 out of 5]

Why was this actually kinda good though? Lots of juicy ancient tea.

[Julia Van Geest · Rating 3 out of 5]

Summary: Pericles fangirling over Athens

[yasmeen · Rating 3 out of 5]

A very interesting take on war.

[Luke · Rating 4 out of 5]

Excellent abridgment of a classic. I loved the translation. Strong recommend if you're looking for something shorter than the full edition.

[sophia · Rating 1 out of 5]

thucydidick.

[Dabney · Rating 3 out of 5]

Well done besides the author's refusal to entertain political science and philosophy

[Mmjcardonline · Rating 5 out of 5]

fgdhsdgfdsdasfsda

[Maisie Wrubel]

Ok I didn’t actually read the whole thing, but I read enough of it to say I did... and I actually kind of liked it... discussing it in class really made me feel like I got it and was really rewarding

[Alexander Roth · Rating 5 out of 5]

Illuminating

[☆ emeline · Rating 2 out of 5]

better than herodotus
I read the intro and chapters 1-3 for my humanities class

[Iz Cerciello · Rating 4 out of 5]

of what i read of it, i enjoyed a lot

[Jillian Holtcamp · Rating 3 out of 5]

the greeks had no chill

[Abigail Gray]

had such a fun time reading this. don’t know much about thucydides or translations but i liked the translation! footnotes etc were great

[Graham George]

(Read through the first book, plus the plague and the Athenian and Melian dialogues.)