Homer

Past Masters (Oxford)

by Jasper Griffin

Homer [paperback] Jasper Griffin [Jan 01, 1980]

Genres: Classics, Poetry, History, Nonfiction, Literature, Greece, Mythology

90 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1952

About the author

Jasper Griffin (born May 29, 1937), MA (Oxon), FBA, was Public Orator and Professor of Classical Literature in the University of Oxford from 1992 until 2004.

Jasper Griffin read Classical Moderations and Greats at Balliol College, Oxford (1956-1960) and was Jackson Fellow at Harvard University (1960-61). On his return to Oxford he became Dyson Junior Research Fellow at Balliol (1961-63), Tutorial Fellow in Classics (1963-2004), and Senior Fellow (2000-04).

His wife of nearly fifty years, Dr Miriam T. Griffin (née Dressler), is also a noteworthy classicist. They have three daughters: Julia, Miranda and Tamara.

Reviews

[Daniel Chaikin · Rating 3 out of 5]

Jasper is very interested in the formality and hierarchy within Homer's plays. He see the Iliad, which he finds the better song, as tragedy of heroism, where characters suffer and die because of choices forced on them in order to maintain their heroic role. The Odyssey is more a story, where Odysseus in particular stretches the heroic ideal.

Well that's the simplified summary. I liked where Griffin took his arguments. I didn't like that he promised "to explain and justify" a statement by Matthew Arnold that Homer is great "in the noble and profound application of ideas to life.". I think he promised a lot there and delivered only a little. Actually my biggest complaint here is that Griffin, limited to 80 pages, never really boiled it down. He really makes a handful of points, but never makes the case that these are the handful of points one should make in 80 pages or less. But than how much can he do in 80 pages?

[Dollie · Rating 4 out of 5]

This was a very interesting book by an expert on ancient history and a big fan of Homer. He explains how stories (or poems) were performed verbally and usually just for a gathering of men. He describes the Illiad and Odyssey in modern language so that we can better understand what was actually going on and why it was happening. I’m really glad I read this because it helped give me a greater understanding of, history of, and importance of these two stories.

[hossein Babadi · Rating 4 out of 5]

جسپر گریفین استاد ادبیات کلاسیک دانشگاه آکسفورد در این کتاب به بررسی زمینه های فکری و بستر شکل گیری ایلیاد و ادیسه در 800 سال پیش از میلاد، دلایل اهمیت آنها و تفسیر و مقایسه دو اثر حماسی یونان باستان می پردازد
در کتاب فرضیات مختلف راجبه هومر مانند نابینا و خنیاگر بودن هومر، خلق ادیسه توسط شاعری متفاوت، شفاهی یا مردمی بودن اشعار ایلیاد و ... مطرح و بررسی می شود

[Drew · Rating 5 out of 5]

A very enjoyable read of excerpts of a variety of English translations of Homer as well as pieces that were influenced by the Iliad and Odyssey. This is a perfect resource for the shelf, but I was also introduced to some new translations that I really enjoyed. And, it changed my mind, midway through, about prose translations of Homer.

I really enjoyed the verse versions by Thomas Ticknell (Iliad, p. 107-8), the anonymous burlesque translation of the Iliad (possibly by Thomas Bridges) (p. 118-120), and the Earl of Derby's Iliad, which I'd read before in whole (p. 166-9). I was also pleased with two works influenced by Homer. The first by Sanford Pinsker. His snarky and witty "Penelope's Reply" rang true and humorous (p. 319-20). Second was Tennyson's "Ulysses", especially with its strong final few lines:

We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield" (p. 140)

Finally, I was never a fan of prose translations of Homer, preferring and loving the beautiful verse versions, be they in English, Latin or Greek. But, reading the excerpts from H.D.F. Kitto's translation of the Iliad, I was blown away (p. 263-6). So there is hope.

[Alejandro Orradre]

La figura de Homero sigue siendo un auténtico misterio, lo cual siendo su obra el origen y modelo de prácticamente la totalidad de su literatura europea y sus valores como sociedad todavía acrecenta más esa figura legendaria.

En este ensayo de Jasper Griffin se intenta analizar por qué La Ilíada y La Odisea -sobre todo la primera- sigue siendo una lectura fresca hoy en día. Y lo que es más importante, por qué los euroepos actuales somos como los protagonistas de la Guerra de Troya después de más de 3.000 años de historia.

[Mark · Rating 5 out of 5]

An incredible work of editing these fantastic pieces into a thoroughly enjoyable whole. I wondered whether reading this through would work but I found it entirely gripping. Reading the same parts translated in many different ways is illuminating

I’d maybe take half a star off for Steiner’s US spellings in British works but they would be quibbling

[Alexa · Rating 4 out of 5]

Un libro muy interesante para conocer más sobre Homero como figura (o figuras si se quiere) y sus obras, me gustó sobre todo la explicación de los contrastes dentro de la Ilíada y en relación con la Odisea.

[Joe · Rating 4 out of 5]

There were Heroes before those who fell at Troy; but they had no Poet, and therefore they are Dead

I enjoyed this book greatly; but as noted by a previous reviewer here on Amazon, the apparatus is woefully inadequate. The introductions to each translator need to be longer and the introduction to the whole volume also should be lengthened. At this point in his career I am certain that our editor, George Steiner, has no interest in doing any of this. Whoever does the next edition of this book will hopefully tackle all this. (On the title page, btw, Aminaday Dykman is listed as Steiner's assistant.)

Also, I wish the book had been structured around important 'set-pieces' of the two great Homeric works. This would have allowed us to see how these different translators treated these pivotal moments. I think one of the problems with this book is that there seems to be no rhyme or reason in choosing the passages that appear here. I believe that the reader would be better served by seeing how the Homeric translators all handle given passages than reading different passages that exemplify the style and strategy of a given translation. Style and strategy could be covered in expanded introductions to each translator.

[Now, off the top of my head, the 'set-pieces' I have in mind would include the following:

Iliad I: The rage of Achilles

The raison d'être of the poem itself!

Iliad III: Helen on the rampart to view the warriors

Helen's terrible beauty, so powerful that it destroyed (that is, it led to the destruction of) a city(!), so stupefying that it could over-awe men wise with age, so magnificent that King Priam himself cannot bring himself to blame Helen for the war. She is a force of nature: yes, beautiful, powerful, terrible, but above all (may all the gods help us), Necessary. Sane men do not hold the Storm accountable; they blame themselves for being unprepared.
Shame on you if you are unprepared when radiant Helen burns your world!

Iliad IX: The embassy to Achilles

The certainty with which people today tend to see Achilles and Odysseus as friends is absurd. Look at what Achilles says to the face of Odysseus after his speech. It isn't until the speech of Ajax that we see Achilles praise one of the speeches. It is Ajax and Achilles who should be paired! Odysseus points toward the classical world to come; Ajax points back to the archaic world that has already begun declining.

Iliad XXI: Achilles to Lycaon

The white hot rage of our hero, and relentless Death, which awaits us all.

Iliad XXIV: Priam goes to Achilles to beg for the corpse of his son

Perhaps the high point of the poem. Achilles finds forgiveness and 'everydayness'. By the gods, even Niobe remembers to eat!

Odyssey VIII: Demodocus sings of the Trojan War

Beautiful. Living Odysseus listens to the recounting of the war that destroyed so many. He is akin to a ghost listening to a (his!) glorious past. ...And he weeps!

Odyssey XI: The ghost of Achilles meets Odysseus:

'I would rather be the slave of an idiot than King of all these miserable dead'. That sentence should shriek! Any translation that does not scream at this point does not understand the text it is translating. If dead Achilles had thought that in life, Troy would not have fallen. Indeed, Achilles would not have been Achilles.
And no one would have remembered him...

Odyssey XIII: Conversation between Odysseus and his Goddess

At times, seemingly (and alarmingly) the banter between bff's!]

The Iliad is a shocking read. It brings forth a world unlike any we know. It is tempting to call it a Tragedy. But there is a confidence in Homer, a trust in the world, that keeps him from ever writing tragedy akin to Euripedes' Bachae or Shakespeare's Lear. No matter how horrible and terrifying the moment, somewhere a shepherd tends sheep, a father teaches a son, lovers find each other again.
It should never cease to amaze us that the author of the Iliad and the author of the Odyssey are the same person. (Though this has been intelligently doubted.) The publisher and editor of any new edition of this work should choose passages that highlight this.
I loved this book. But I only give four stars for the reasons stated earlier. The snippets provided are too short to give an adequate understanding of the selected translators strategies and styles. Rather, I believe that certain passages as translated by different people should be used to to give us a richer understanding of Homer and his masterpieces.
It is the Poet, not the translators, who has made god-like Achilles and Helen unforgettable. The next iteration of this book should focus on him.

[Douglas · Rating 5 out of 5]

There will be blood, and lots of it. The Iliad isn't an easy read (I've read the Fagles translation before and am now giving the Lattimore one a go) and some of the 24 chapters are a bit tedious. (Chapter II, with it's catalogue of ships, for example.) But there is brilliance too: the hard and bitter truths of war and its destructiveness haven't been surpassed in over two and a half millennium.

It's not true, as some noted critics suggest (yes, Harold Bloom, I'm looking at you) that Homer treats the Greeks and Trojans equally. (The Greeks almost always come off better: Which sides gets the better armor in a trade? Which sides sends out two sentry instead of one? Which side has six fighters as strong (and at least one stronger) than the strongest Trojan? But Homer doesn't demonize the Trojans, and we grieve for their losses in the book, including those that are foreshadowed.

Moreover, Homer understood that heroes can only shine when faced with heroic competitors. Any of the current spate of superhero movies show this, as the movies are only as good as the villains are.

Sure, Achilleus is a punk. The leader of the troops disrespects you? Cry to mommy. Ask her to have the gods make your side lose. Let your fellow countrymen die because you are angry.

The book is far bigger than Achilleus and his anger. To borrow a phrase from Yeats, "there is a terrible beauty born" out of all this violence. It's not an easy read, nor always a pleasant one. But it is never not worthwhile. It'll be around in another 2,700 years.

[Bryn Hammond · Rating 5 out of 5]

I liked the idea of these 'in English' epic poets: you try out every translation that has been and pursue those that are for you. And you can't go wrong with George Steiner at the helm.

It starts with Chaucer's Troilus ('the first psychological novel')and Henryson's Testament of Criseyde (fantastic piece), there's Chapman to tempt to the peaks of Homer translation and Keats' sonnets thereon - because you get poetry on Homer too. I first met Christopher Logue's famous new fragments here, which Steiner calls 'an act of genius'. You can have a look at the weirder experiments in translation, of the sort you'd never give shelf space of their own, but you can certainly learn from failures.

[James Klagge · Rating 5 out of 5]

A short, concise and interesting read. I read it over a period of months, actually, b/c it is small enough to fit in my pocket, and so I read it while I was waiting...for a hair cut, or at the doctor's office. Very convenient.
The two basic chapters cover the Iliad and the Odyssey. I have taught the Iliad a number of times and love it. I didn't agree with everything in that chapter, but I learned new things from it, and enjoyed the overview. I know less about the Odyssey, and also enjoyed learning more about that.
Highly recommended as an introduction, though it should not serve in place of Homer's poems, or as a review.

[David · Rating 5 out of 5]

I read both the Iliad and the Odyssey in the Latimore translations. Of the various translations I've seen of Homer (including the Fagles that seems to be so popular these days), to me, the Latimore translation is the best. I'm no Greek scholar, but it seems to have the kind of rough, craggy feel of the original Greek. The others don't feel nearly as faithful to the original. (And I think I heard Homeric scholar James Redfield say the same thing once.)

So five stars for both the books themselves and the translation.

[William Crosby · Rating 4 out of 5]

The version I read was afflicted with "thees" and "thous" making to a more stilted translation that it needed to be. Still, despite the tediousness of the translation, the Iliad and Odyssey are a set of imaginative stories with godlike creatures who are constantly manipulating and sometimes abusing mere mortals.

[Heidi J. · Rating 3 out of 5]

I'm giving this a three because I would rate The Illiad with two stars (ugh! too gory and uninteresting) and The Odyssey with four stars. The Odyssey was by far the more interesting of the two. I did enjoy learning about so many of the myths and stories that have made their way into our current culture.

[Lo Inquieto · Rating 4 out of 5]

La lectura de este libro es muy fluida y amena. Es necesario haber leído tanto Iliada como Odisea para entender todas las explicaciones. Pero si ya leíste estas obras, de seguro te va a gustar. En este libro existe un gran trabajo de análisis de los personajes y los motivos de esta literatura clásica. Me dio mucho gusto leerlo.

[Jennica]

I had picked up this book in hopes to learn a little more about old world history (specifically Greek), but it is actually more information and theory's on "Homer" than I want to know right now. I didn't finish it.

[Debora Felton · Rating 5 out of 5]

Love this translation.

[Ci · Rating 4 out of 5]

A good reference book for studying both Iliad and Odyssey. it is a bit dry but packed with useful information to get through the long poems.

[Alfonso Casalta · Rating 3 out of 5]

Breve pero conciso, interesante, bien escrito.