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Trois #2
Iubire etc.
In "Iubire etc.", Julian Barnes reia povestea protagonistilor din "Trois", dupa zece ani. Ce s-a intamplat intre timp? Gillian, care mai intai s-a casatorit cu Stuart, s-a indragostit apoi de Oliver, cel mai bun prieten al sotului ei, cu care s-a casatorit.
Gillian si Oliver au doua fetite, iar Stuart s-a recasatorit. Unii traiesc in Franta, ceilalti in America. Dar acum, in "Iubire etc.", se intalnesc cu totii la Londra. Menajul Gillian – Oliver merge destul de bine, iar Stuart, care a divortat din nou, vine sa-i vada. Apoi sa-i revada. Si jocul seductiei reincepe.
Gillian si Oliver au doua fetite, iar Stuart s-a recasatorit. Unii traiesc in Franta, ceilalti in America. Dar acum, in "Iubire etc.", se intalnesc cu totii la Londra. Menajul Gillian – Oliver merge destul de bine, iar Stuart, care a divortat din nou, vine sa-i vada. Apoi sa-i revada. Si jocul seductiei reincepe.
256 pages, Paperback
First published September 12, 2000
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3585 people want to read
About the author
Julian Barnes
162 books6,788 followersJulian Patrick Barnes is an English writer. He won the Man Booker Prize in 2011 with The Sense of an Ending, having been shortlisted three times previously with Flaubert's Parrot, England, England, and Arthur & George. Barnes has also written crime fiction under the pseudonym Dan Kavanagh (having married Pat Kavanagh). In addition to novels, Barnes has published collections of essays and short stories.
In 2004 he became a Commandeur of L'Ordre des Arts et des Lettres. His honours also include the Somerset Maugham Award and the Geoffrey Faber Memorial Prize. He was awarded the 2021 Jerusalem Prize.
In 2004 he became a Commandeur of L'Ordre des Arts et des Lettres. His honours also include the Somerset Maugham Award and the Geoffrey Faber Memorial Prize. He was awarded the 2021 Jerusalem Prize.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 297 reviews
September 22, 2019
Stuart and Oliver were good friends in London; emphasis on the past tense. Stuart fell in love with a woman, Gillian and got married. But after three years, Oliver ‘stole her away from Stuart.’ Stuart went to the United States where he made a bit of money first in restaurants and then in organic food shops. Stuart re-married and divorced and now, ten years after his first divorce, he has decided to move back to England, set up business there, and look up his first wife.
Gillian and Oliver have a child now but Stuart feels he is still in love with Gillian – in fact he has even stalked her, once learning that they were vacationing in Italy, he booked a hotel across the street to spy on them.
Stuart and Oliver have very opposite personalities. Stuart is a go-getter as shown by his business success, but Oliver is dreamy; an artist always looking for someone to ‘support’ his art projects. He’s impractical, can’t really hold a job, and dysfunctional in day-to-day life. He has had bouts of depression that have incapacitated him. Gillian barely supports the family by working as a restorer of paintings.
Enter Stuart. With his desire to get Jillian back, and with his money, he ‘inserts’ himself into their life. He gives them a good deal on the lease on his old, large house (yes, the one he used to live in with Gillian!). He hires Oliver to pick up and deliver organic food. Stuart hangs out at Oliver’s and Gillian’s house daily. He becomes best friends with their little girl and starts dating Gillian’s office assistant. He even visits with his former mother-in-law. Oliver secretly hates Stuart, barely functions in his delivery job, and goes into depression mode. Stuart forces himself on Gillian. Was it a rape?
The book is structured as a collection of passages, monologues really, from all parties written in the first person. So we see incidents and attitudes in totally different perspectives. And we hear not only from the three main characters but from Stuart’s ex- in the USA, Gillian’s assistant, Gillian’s mother and others.
Most notably, Oliver come across as a pompous ass using flatulent made-up language. For example, early on he says of Stuart “…he likes naff songs which actually predate him. I mean, it’s one thing to be hung up on cheap music synchronous with the primal engorgement of your own libidinous organs, be it Randi Newman or Luigi Nono. But to be hung up on the sunlounger singalongeries of a previous generation – that’s so very, so touchingly Stuart, don’t you find?” You wonder how Gillian could have fallen in love with Oliver and how she could have fallen for two so very different men in the first place.
Some passages that I liked that also illustrate Barnes’ strong writing:
“In short, it was one of those scenes common to all marriages, where things are half-talked about, and then a decision is made based on all the other things you haven’t talked about.”
“…every relationship contains within it the ghosts, or the shadows, of all the other relationships it isn’t. All the abandoned alternatives, the forgotten choices, the lives you could have led but didn’t and haven’t.”
“He is saying perhaps also that love is dramatic and hot and burning and noisy, while marriage is like a warm fog which stings your eyes and makes it impossible for you to see.”
“Life is a process during which your weakest places are inevitably discovered. It is also a process during which you are punished for your earlier actions and desires. Not punished justly, oh no – that is part of what I meant by not believing in the gods – simply punished like that. Punished anarchically, if you like.”
So where is all this going? At times it’s as the blurb says, “a delightful farce to create a tragicomedy of human frailties and needs.” A good story that kept my attention all the way through.
Top photo: Newham in East London from i.guim.co.uk
Photo of the author from inews.co.uk
Gillian and Oliver have a child now but Stuart feels he is still in love with Gillian – in fact he has even stalked her, once learning that they were vacationing in Italy, he booked a hotel across the street to spy on them.
Stuart and Oliver have very opposite personalities. Stuart is a go-getter as shown by his business success, but Oliver is dreamy; an artist always looking for someone to ‘support’ his art projects. He’s impractical, can’t really hold a job, and dysfunctional in day-to-day life. He has had bouts of depression that have incapacitated him. Gillian barely supports the family by working as a restorer of paintings.
Enter Stuart. With his desire to get Jillian back, and with his money, he ‘inserts’ himself into their life. He gives them a good deal on the lease on his old, large house (yes, the one he used to live in with Gillian!). He hires Oliver to pick up and deliver organic food. Stuart hangs out at Oliver’s and Gillian’s house daily. He becomes best friends with their little girl and starts dating Gillian’s office assistant. He even visits with his former mother-in-law. Oliver secretly hates Stuart, barely functions in his delivery job, and goes into depression mode. Stuart forces himself on Gillian. Was it a rape?
The book is structured as a collection of passages, monologues really, from all parties written in the first person. So we see incidents and attitudes in totally different perspectives. And we hear not only from the three main characters but from Stuart’s ex- in the USA, Gillian’s assistant, Gillian’s mother and others.
Most notably, Oliver come across as a pompous ass using flatulent made-up language. For example, early on he says of Stuart “…he likes naff songs which actually predate him. I mean, it’s one thing to be hung up on cheap music synchronous with the primal engorgement of your own libidinous organs, be it Randi Newman or Luigi Nono. But to be hung up on the sunlounger singalongeries of a previous generation – that’s so very, so touchingly Stuart, don’t you find?” You wonder how Gillian could have fallen in love with Oliver and how she could have fallen for two so very different men in the first place.
Some passages that I liked that also illustrate Barnes’ strong writing:
“In short, it was one of those scenes common to all marriages, where things are half-talked about, and then a decision is made based on all the other things you haven’t talked about.”
“…every relationship contains within it the ghosts, or the shadows, of all the other relationships it isn’t. All the abandoned alternatives, the forgotten choices, the lives you could have led but didn’t and haven’t.”
“He is saying perhaps also that love is dramatic and hot and burning and noisy, while marriage is like a warm fog which stings your eyes and makes it impossible for you to see.”
“Life is a process during which your weakest places are inevitably discovered. It is also a process during which you are punished for your earlier actions and desires. Not punished justly, oh no – that is part of what I meant by not believing in the gods – simply punished like that. Punished anarchically, if you like.”
So where is all this going? At times it’s as the blurb says, “a delightful farce to create a tragicomedy of human frailties and needs.” A good story that kept my attention all the way through.
Top photo: Newham in East London from i.guim.co.uk
Photo of the author from inews.co.uk
April 9, 2018
Cupid was shooting poison darts when he spied the characters in "Love, etc." This romantic bloodbath is the latest wicked novel from Julian Barnes, England's sharpest satirist.
Tell them about Gillian.
Do you mind? I'm trying to review a book here. (Ahem.)
Looking more like a script than a novel, this comic tragedy unfolds entirely in dialogue, as a series of soliloquies and private confessions on the oldest subject in the world. Conveniently, all the parts are labeled, so it's clear from the start who's speaking
Ten years have passed since we met Gillian, Stuart, and Oliver in "Talking It Over" (Vintage). In that novel, Gillian switched her affections from Stuart to his best friend, Oliver, with devastating effect.
No hard feelings. All blood under the bridge.
Since then, Gillian has been more or less happily married to Oliver and raising their two little girls. She's a successful restorer of old paintings, and he's an unsuccessful film writer, whose pyrotechnic language flickers between wit and lunacy.
If Gillian is so good at spotting fakes, what's she doing with Oliver?
The novel opens when Stuart makes a surprise reappearance in London. He's returned from a decade in America, divorced again and rich from his organic-food business. Now, he just wants to pop in and catch up with his old friends.
Oliver stole her off me. He wanted my life so he took it. He made Gill fall in love with him.
The most enjoyable aspect of this initially entertaining and ultimately disturbing novel is the interplay of their various voices - dialogues so carefully pitched that you'll swear you heard "Love, etc." instead of read it.
I was dozing, I confess. Et tu? O narcoleptic and steatopygous Stuart, he of the crepuscular understanding and the Weltanschauung built of Lego. Look, can we please take the longer view?
On the framework of a French sex farce, Barnes conducts a brutally frank examination of these three flawed characters. Placed in the role of confessor, we're drawn into their desires and terrors, their petty attempts at one-upmanship, and their semi-transparent self-justification. This is a rotating love triangle with razor-sharp points.
What you have to understand is that Stuart wants you to like him, needs you to like him, whereas Oliver has a certain difficulty imagining that you won't.
Much has changed in the intervening decade since Gillian jilted her lover and married his best friend, but more striking is what hasn't. Barnes is at his best when he illustrates what an uncomfortably tight fit old friendship can become. After all, ill-matched spouses are allowed to divorce, but no such clean break exists for dysfunctional friends.
Oliver and Stuart pick up just where they left off, jousting like young rivals. But Stuart is not the insecure dullard he once was, and Oliver's rapier wit, once so flashy and intimidating, now seems irrelevant in the grownup world of equity and fatherhood.
Oliver is planning to compress middle-age into a single afternoon of lying down with a migraine.
When Stuart offers Gillian and Oliver his old apartment in a nice section of town, Oliver immediately accepts and even takes a job delivering produce for Stuart's business. Gillian anticipates the awkwardness of this entanglement with her exhusband, but Oliver feels so superior that he fails to see the tables turning.
Real betrayal occurs among friends, among those you love.
As Oliver falls under a grinding bout of depression, Gillian begins to consider whether Boring & Reliable might not be better than Acerbic & Clever.
Despite the armor of his dazzling wit, Oliver turns that sarcastic sword on himself, stabbing his most tender victim. In a typical Barnes move, the comedy drains away before we can escape, and we're forced to follow the painful ramifications of this situation, particularly as it affects Gillian's precocious daughter.
Oh, don't look at me like that.
The chaos of desire drives these characters in ways they can't control or even acknowledge. This is irresistible gossip, from a writer of piercing wit and unsettling insight. We can't help listening to these people, hoping they'll finally see themselves clearly - hoping just as naively that we won't see ourselves in them.
(c) Copyright 2001. The Christian Science Publishing Society
Tell them about Gillian.
Do you mind? I'm trying to review a book here. (Ahem.)
Looking more like a script than a novel, this comic tragedy unfolds entirely in dialogue, as a series of soliloquies and private confessions on the oldest subject in the world. Conveniently, all the parts are labeled, so it's clear from the start who's speaking
Ten years have passed since we met Gillian, Stuart, and Oliver in "Talking It Over" (Vintage). In that novel, Gillian switched her affections from Stuart to his best friend, Oliver, with devastating effect.
No hard feelings. All blood under the bridge.
Since then, Gillian has been more or less happily married to Oliver and raising their two little girls. She's a successful restorer of old paintings, and he's an unsuccessful film writer, whose pyrotechnic language flickers between wit and lunacy.
If Gillian is so good at spotting fakes, what's she doing with Oliver?
The novel opens when Stuart makes a surprise reappearance in London. He's returned from a decade in America, divorced again and rich from his organic-food business. Now, he just wants to pop in and catch up with his old friends.
Oliver stole her off me. He wanted my life so he took it. He made Gill fall in love with him.
The most enjoyable aspect of this initially entertaining and ultimately disturbing novel is the interplay of their various voices - dialogues so carefully pitched that you'll swear you heard "Love, etc." instead of read it.
I was dozing, I confess. Et tu? O narcoleptic and steatopygous Stuart, he of the crepuscular understanding and the Weltanschauung built of Lego. Look, can we please take the longer view?
On the framework of a French sex farce, Barnes conducts a brutally frank examination of these three flawed characters. Placed in the role of confessor, we're drawn into their desires and terrors, their petty attempts at one-upmanship, and their semi-transparent self-justification. This is a rotating love triangle with razor-sharp points.
What you have to understand is that Stuart wants you to like him, needs you to like him, whereas Oliver has a certain difficulty imagining that you won't.
Much has changed in the intervening decade since Gillian jilted her lover and married his best friend, but more striking is what hasn't. Barnes is at his best when he illustrates what an uncomfortably tight fit old friendship can become. After all, ill-matched spouses are allowed to divorce, but no such clean break exists for dysfunctional friends.
Oliver and Stuart pick up just where they left off, jousting like young rivals. But Stuart is not the insecure dullard he once was, and Oliver's rapier wit, once so flashy and intimidating, now seems irrelevant in the grownup world of equity and fatherhood.
Oliver is planning to compress middle-age into a single afternoon of lying down with a migraine.
When Stuart offers Gillian and Oliver his old apartment in a nice section of town, Oliver immediately accepts and even takes a job delivering produce for Stuart's business. Gillian anticipates the awkwardness of this entanglement with her exhusband, but Oliver feels so superior that he fails to see the tables turning.
Real betrayal occurs among friends, among those you love.
As Oliver falls under a grinding bout of depression, Gillian begins to consider whether Boring & Reliable might not be better than Acerbic & Clever.
Despite the armor of his dazzling wit, Oliver turns that sarcastic sword on himself, stabbing his most tender victim. In a typical Barnes move, the comedy drains away before we can escape, and we're forced to follow the painful ramifications of this situation, particularly as it affects Gillian's precocious daughter.
Oh, don't look at me like that.
The chaos of desire drives these characters in ways they can't control or even acknowledge. This is irresistible gossip, from a writer of piercing wit and unsettling insight. We can't help listening to these people, hoping they'll finally see themselves clearly - hoping just as naively that we won't see ourselves in them.
(c) Copyright 2001. The Christian Science Publishing Society
June 30, 2017
The conversation continues....
There's Gillian, who appears the most sensible but may well be the most calculating and manipulative.
There's Oliver, who appears the most up but is in fact down. Way down.
There's Stuart, who appears the most innocent but is in fact a scheming monster.
A few other people are allowed to speak. Gillian's Mum, her daughter, her colleague. This adds spice to the mix. But it was never bland, even before they popped in.
Barnes makes the voices of Stuart and Oliver so distinct in themselves and so wondrously authentic feeling that I find it hard to resist the thought that they may be a slightly exaggerated representation of two extreme poles in his own character: the quiet, thoughtful plotter and the ebullient witty wordsmith. My apologies if that is presumptive, Mr. Barnes. I do not mean to deny the ability to invent.
Delicately ruthless. Deceptively simple. Delectable in every way.
There's Gillian, who appears the most sensible but may well be the most calculating and manipulative.
There's Oliver, who appears the most up but is in fact down. Way down.
There's Stuart, who appears the most innocent but is in fact a scheming monster.
A few other people are allowed to speak. Gillian's Mum, her daughter, her colleague. This adds spice to the mix. But it was never bland, even before they popped in.
Barnes makes the voices of Stuart and Oliver so distinct in themselves and so wondrously authentic feeling that I find it hard to resist the thought that they may be a slightly exaggerated representation of two extreme poles in his own character: the quiet, thoughtful plotter and the ebullient witty wordsmith. My apologies if that is presumptive, Mr. Barnes. I do not mean to deny the ability to invent.
Delicately ruthless. Deceptively simple. Delectable in every way.
June 16, 2017
Book no. 4 by Julian Barnes - more precisely, the fourth audiobook.
I loved Love, etc.. The title itself couldn't be better because this novel is mostly about love and relationships and other things, that come under the umbrella of etc.
Barnes takes a magnifying glass and points it at love, especially as its manifestation between a man and a woman. He does this very well through several unreliable narrators, but ultimately, this is the story of a threesome that's made up of Stuart and Oliver, best friends, and their wife, Gillian. Yes, that's right: Gillian was married to both of them. Not at the same time. First, she was married to Stuart and then divorced him for Oliver. Ten years later, Stuart comes back from the USA and gets back in touch with Gillian and Oliver, who now live in a shabby house and have two daughters. Gillian is an art restorator, and Oliver is ... I'm not sure what. Stuart is a successful business man. Slowly, he makes himself very useful by becoming their landlord, and eventually Oliver's employer. Is Stuart still in love with Gillian. Does he love today's Gillian or is he just thinking of the person he had fallen in love with all those years back?
This novel had an unusual structure that I don't remember coming across before. The narrators addressed the reader directly. Incredibly enough, but not surprising given Barnes' talent, it worked really well. There was a playfulness about it and it had a certain rhythm that kept things interesting and moving along at a fast pace. It worked brilliantly as an audiobook, especially since three different narrators were reading the three main parts. Each voice was distinctive and contributed in different ways at putting the puzzle together.
There were quite a few quotable passages, unfortunately, one of the disadvantages of audiobooks is that you can't keep track of them easily (I usually do chores when I listen to the audiobook, I rarely/never stop to take notes.)
This was yet another fantabulous, brilliant, enlightening book from Julian Barnes.
Recommended
4.5 stars
I loved Love, etc.. The title itself couldn't be better because this novel is mostly about love and relationships and other things, that come under the umbrella of etc.
Barnes takes a magnifying glass and points it at love, especially as its manifestation between a man and a woman. He does this very well through several unreliable narrators, but ultimately, this is the story of a threesome that's made up of Stuart and Oliver, best friends, and their wife, Gillian. Yes, that's right: Gillian was married to both of them. Not at the same time. First, she was married to Stuart and then divorced him for Oliver. Ten years later, Stuart comes back from the USA and gets back in touch with Gillian and Oliver, who now live in a shabby house and have two daughters. Gillian is an art restorator, and Oliver is ... I'm not sure what. Stuart is a successful business man. Slowly, he makes himself very useful by becoming their landlord, and eventually Oliver's employer. Is Stuart still in love with Gillian. Does he love today's Gillian or is he just thinking of the person he had fallen in love with all those years back?
This novel had an unusual structure that I don't remember coming across before. The narrators addressed the reader directly. Incredibly enough, but not surprising given Barnes' talent, it worked really well. There was a playfulness about it and it had a certain rhythm that kept things interesting and moving along at a fast pace. It worked brilliantly as an audiobook, especially since three different narrators were reading the three main parts. Each voice was distinctive and contributed in different ways at putting the puzzle together.
There were quite a few quotable passages, unfortunately, one of the disadvantages of audiobooks is that you can't keep track of them easily (I usually do chores when I listen to the audiobook, I rarely/never stop to take notes.)
This was yet another fantabulous, brilliant, enlightening book from Julian Barnes.
Recommended
4.5 stars
October 22, 2017
One of the best sequels one can possibly think of!
The story keeps getting better. Simply Brilliant!
The story keeps getting better. Simply Brilliant!
December 12, 2022
"Seks hayatımız... dostça. Ne demek istediğimi anlıyor musunuz? Evet, anladığınızı görebiliyorum. Belki de çok iyi anlıyorsunuz. Birbirimiz için elimizden geleni yapıyoruz, o iş sırasında birbirimizi gözetiyoruz. Seks hayatımız... dostça bizim. Eminim daha kötü şeyler vardır. Çok daha kötü."
"Aşk Vesaire", Barnes'ın "Seni Sevmiyorum" kitabına yıllar sonra yazdığı bir devam kitabı. 3 karakterimiz Oliver, Stuart ve Gillian'ın karmaşık aşk ve dostluk hikayesine geri dönüyor ve 10 sene sonraya bakıyoruz. Ne acayip ki bu devam kitabını ilk kitaptan daha çok sevdim.
"Seni Sevmiyorum"daki gibi çok sesli yazılmış bir metin bu. Bu kez bizimle konuşuyorlar. Bize sesleniyor, bize, okura sorular soruyorlar. Bana çok haz verdi bu yazım biçimi. Hele ki karakterleri ilk kitaptan tanıyor gibi olduğum için, ben de 10 yıldır görmediğim birtakım eski arkadaşlarımın karşısına geçmiş onların kendilerini, hayatı ve beni sorgulamalarını dinliyor gibi hissettim.
Kitabın adı daha güzel olamazmış - bu kitapta Barnes yine aşka müthiş incelikli biçimde bakıyor çünkü. Aşka, aşık olmanın biçimlerine, aşkın insana ne yaptığına... Ve tabii "vesaire": vesaire gibi gözüken ama aşkın oluşmasını ya da sönümlenmesini sağlayan tüm o detaylar, diğer şeyler, sıradan, küçük, önemsiz gibi gözüken ayrıntılar - öyleler mi acaba?
Bu üç kişinin öyküsünün devamında böyle bir ters köşe asla beklemiyordum ya. Yazacağım her şey spoiler vermek olacağı için sözü bir kez daha Barnes'a bırakıp bitireceğim ama şu kadar söyleyebilirim: bayılıyorum Barnes sana. İnsanın içini böyle görerek yazmana, bu kadar komik olmana, hepimizle böyle şefkatli biçimde alay etmene (ki bence zor olan tam da bu) bayılıyorum.
"Erkekler arasında hoşa gitmenin farklı yolları var, en azından hoşa gitmeye çalışmanın. Bazıları başkalarının hoşuna giden şeylerin ne olduğunu bulup sonra onları yapmaya çalışıyor, bazıları da yapmaya karar verdikleri şey her hâlükarda hoşa gidecektir beklentisi ve özgüveniyle sadece yapmak istediklerini yapıyor."
"Aşk Vesaire", Barnes'ın "Seni Sevmiyorum" kitabına yıllar sonra yazdığı bir devam kitabı. 3 karakterimiz Oliver, Stuart ve Gillian'ın karmaşık aşk ve dostluk hikayesine geri dönüyor ve 10 sene sonraya bakıyoruz. Ne acayip ki bu devam kitabını ilk kitaptan daha çok sevdim.
"Seni Sevmiyorum"daki gibi çok sesli yazılmış bir metin bu. Bu kez bizimle konuşuyorlar. Bize sesleniyor, bize, okura sorular soruyorlar. Bana çok haz verdi bu yazım biçimi. Hele ki karakterleri ilk kitaptan tanıyor gibi olduğum için, ben de 10 yıldır görmediğim birtakım eski arkadaşlarımın karşısına geçmiş onların kendilerini, hayatı ve beni sorgulamalarını dinliyor gibi hissettim.
Kitabın adı daha güzel olamazmış - bu kitapta Barnes yine aşka müthiş incelikli biçimde bakıyor çünkü. Aşka, aşık olmanın biçimlerine, aşkın insana ne yaptığına... Ve tabii "vesaire": vesaire gibi gözüken ama aşkın oluşmasını ya da sönümlenmesini sağlayan tüm o detaylar, diğer şeyler, sıradan, küçük, önemsiz gibi gözüken ayrıntılar - öyleler mi acaba?
Bu üç kişinin öyküsünün devamında böyle bir ters köşe asla beklemiyordum ya. Yazacağım her şey spoiler vermek olacağı için sözü bir kez daha Barnes'a bırakıp bitireceğim ama şu kadar söyleyebilirim: bayılıyorum Barnes sana. İnsanın içini böyle görerek yazmana, bu kadar komik olmana, hepimizle böyle şefkatli biçimde alay etmene (ki bence zor olan tam da bu) bayılıyorum.
"Erkekler arasında hoşa gitmenin farklı yolları var, en azından hoşa gitmeye çalışmanın. Bazıları başkalarının hoşuna giden şeylerin ne olduğunu bulup sonra onları yapmaya çalışıyor, bazıları da yapmaya karar verdikleri şey her hâlükarda hoşa gidecektir beklentisi ve özgüveniyle sadece yapmak istediklerini yapıyor."
January 17, 2025
Super je Barns.
Inteligentan, iskusan, ironičan, opor,..
Možda mi se čak sviđa i više od "Troje" ili sam i ja malo u međuvremenu sazrela. Stjuart mi je sad mnogo simpatičniji i draži nego u prvom dijelu, a Oliver, kakav lik! Skidam kapu Barnsu na domišljatosti, ali Oliver mi je ovog puta bio istovremeno i na smrt dosadan i užasno iritantan.
Inteligentan, iskusan, ironičan, opor,..
Možda mi se čak sviđa i više od "Troje" ili sam i ja malo u međuvremenu sazrela. Stjuart mi je sad mnogo simpatičniji i draži nego u prvom dijelu, a Oliver, kakav lik! Skidam kapu Barnsu na domišljatosti, ali Oliver mi je ovog puta bio istovremeno i na smrt dosadan i užasno iritantan.
May 19, 2020
2.5* really: more than "it was all right" because there were indeed times that I enjoyed it a lot--particularly those sections which focused on one of my favourite characters in living memory: the over-educated three-dimensional narcissist (and connoisseur of archaicisms) Oliver:
Otherwise, though? Alas, I must ask of you, O Julian: why are you telling me this , this whatever-happened-to, 10-years-later tale? Talking It Over was all that these three really needed of our attention—except for the aforementioned Oliver, perhaps, though he definitely takes a back seat in this sequel, which is all Stuart's story, really: and the story of a stockjobber-turned-grocery-magnate is just not all that interesting or necessary, really. And as for Gillian, she remains a bit of a cipher, I'm afraid. And everyone's sunk that much further into mediocrity (Stuart), into bland opacity (Gillian), into depression (Oliver), and, well, into middle-age-spread-ism all-around, that it's kinda just depressing to read about them and their intervening decade of doing-not-all-that-muchitude. Oliver's witty aperçus (because fewer in number?) just don't provide sufficient relief from the banality and bathos, alas. An unnecessary read, albeit a quick one that rekindled fond memories of its superior predecessor, Talking It Over.
I was dozing, I confess. Et tu ? O narcoleptic and steatopygous Stuart, he of the crepuscular understanding and the Weltanschauung built of Lego. Look, can we please take the longer view? Chou-en-lai, my hero. Or Zhou-en-lai, as he later became. What do you consider to have been the effect on world history of the French Revolution? To which the wise man replied, ‘It is too early to tell.’ Or if not quite so Olympian or Confucian a view, then at least let’s have some perspective, some shading, some audacious juxtapositions of pigment, OK? Do we not, each of us, write the novel of our life as we go along? But how few, alas, are publish-able. Behold the towering slush pile! Don’t call us, we’ll call you—no, on second thoughts, we won’t call you either. Now, don’t rush to judgement on Oliver—I’ve cautioned you about that before. Oliver is not a snob. At least, not in the straightforward sense. It is not the subject-matter of these novels, or the social location of their protagonists, that is the problem. ‘The story of a louse may be as fine as the history of Alexander the Great—everything depends upon the execution.’ An adamantine formula, don’t you agree? What is needed is a sense of form, control, discrimination, selection, omission, arrangement, emphasis . . . that dirty, three-letter word, art. The story of our life is never an autobiography, always a novel—that’s the first mistake people make. Our memories are just another artifice: go on, admit it. And the second mistake is to assume that a plodding commemoration of previously fêted detail, enlivening though it might be in a taproom, constitutes a narrative likely to entice the at times necessarily hard-hearted reader. On whose lips rightly lies the perpetual question: why are you telling me this?I just can't get enough of that guy and his vocabulary, his self-regard, and his the-glass-was-three-quarters-empty-when-it-was-thrust-upon-me-ism.
Otherwise, though? Alas, I must ask of you, O Julian: why are you telling me this , this whatever-happened-to, 10-years-later tale? Talking It Over was all that these three really needed of our attention—except for the aforementioned Oliver, perhaps, though he definitely takes a back seat in this sequel, which is all Stuart's story, really: and the story of a stockjobber-turned-grocery-magnate is just not all that interesting or necessary, really. And as for Gillian, she remains a bit of a cipher, I'm afraid. And everyone's sunk that much further into mediocrity (Stuart), into bland opacity (Gillian), into depression (Oliver), and, well, into middle-age-spread-ism all-around, that it's kinda just depressing to read about them and their intervening decade of doing-not-all-that-muchitude. Oliver's witty aperçus (because fewer in number?) just don't provide sufficient relief from the banality and bathos, alas. An unnecessary read, albeit a quick one that rekindled fond memories of its superior predecessor, Talking It Over.
February 10, 2025
Ako ste nakon čitanja Troje pomislili da je to jedna inteligentna, britanski duhovita priča o ljubavi, manipulaciji i ljudskim slabostima, Ljubav, itd. će vas natjerati da preispitate sopstvene granice razumijevanja i osude. Ovaj knjiga donosi junake deset godina kasnije – Stjuarta, Olivera i Džilijan – sada zrelije, ogorčenije i složenije nego prije.
Dok je prvi dio bio više igra nadmudrivanja, Ljubav, itd. se pretvara u priču o moći, ogorčenju i posljedicama izbora. Barns razbija sve iluzije o srećnim krajevima. Njegovi likovi više nisu simpatični gubitnici, već realni ljudi sa nesavršenostima koje ih mogu učiniti odbojnima. Stjuart više nije samo naivni bankar – sada je hladan preduzetnik vođen osvetom. Oliverova nekada šarmantna ekscentričnost postaje depresivna i bespomoćna. Džilijan, nekada žrtva izbora između dva muškarca, sada je osoba koja najviše laže samu sebe, ignorišući realnost sopstvenog života.
Barns ide do kraja, skida svojim likovima slojeve do srži, pa i ono što je u Troje djelovalo kao pomalo neobična ljubavna priča, ovdje postaje teška drama o ljudskim slabostima i destruktivnim emocijama. Kraj romana donosi preokret, koji će vas možda natjerati da preispitate sve što ste ranije mislili o ovim junacima – i o ljudskoj prirodi uopšte.
I da zaključim, ovo je knjiga koja se čita u dahu (i bez daha). Ako bih je morala opisati jednom rečenicom, rekla bih da je to jedna psihološki složena priča sa britanskim humorom i oštrim uvidom u ljudsku prirodu.
Dok je prvi dio bio više igra nadmudrivanja, Ljubav, itd. se pretvara u priču o moći, ogorčenju i posljedicama izbora. Barns razbija sve iluzije o srećnim krajevima. Njegovi likovi više nisu simpatični gubitnici, već realni ljudi sa nesavršenostima koje ih mogu učiniti odbojnima. Stjuart više nije samo naivni bankar – sada je hladan preduzetnik vođen osvetom. Oliverova nekada šarmantna ekscentričnost postaje depresivna i bespomoćna. Džilijan, nekada žrtva izbora između dva muškarca, sada je osoba koja najviše laže samu sebe, ignorišući realnost sopstvenog života.
Barns ide do kraja, skida svojim likovima slojeve do srži, pa i ono što je u Troje djelovalo kao pomalo neobična ljubavna priča, ovdje postaje teška drama o ljudskim slabostima i destruktivnim emocijama. Kraj romana donosi preokret, koji će vas možda natjerati da preispitate sve što ste ranije mislili o ovim junacima – i o ljudskoj prirodi uopšte.
I da zaključim, ovo je knjiga koja se čita u dahu (i bez daha). Ako bih je morala opisati jednom rečenicom, rekla bih da je to jedna psihološki složena priča sa britanskim humorom i oštrim uvidom u ljudsku prirodu.
April 21, 2025
این کتاب راوی نداره، هیچکس بهتون نمیگه چخبره تا اینکه از زبون تک تک کاراکترا بشنوید و بفهمید که چی شده، وقتی دارید این کتاب میخونید ناخوداگاه خودتون جلوی کاراکترا تصور میکنید که انگار تو یه اتاق با یه چایی جلوتون نشستید و اون کاراکتر داره تعریف میکنه که چی شده
شخصیت مورد علاقه من استوارت بود و جملهای نبود که بگه و من خط نکشم یا چندبار نخونم
یکم خود داستان تو مخ بود و تا اخرم گیلیان رو درک نکردم ولی خب بخاطر جملات زیباش هم که شده بهش چهار میدم
شما سه و نیم درنظر بگیرید
شخصیت مورد علاقه من استوارت بود و جملهای نبود که بگه و من خط نکشم یا چندبار نخونم
یکم خود داستان تو مخ بود و تا اخرم گیلیان رو درک نکردم ولی خب بخاطر جملات زیباش هم که شده بهش چهار میدم
شما سه و نیم درنظر بگیرید
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July 19, 2023O problema não é o tema dos romances ou a posição social dos protagonistas. A história de um piolho pode ser tão boa como a história de Alexandre, o Grande - tudo depende da execução. Uma fórmula infalível, não concordam? O que importa é o sentido da forma, o controle, a discriminação, a selecção, a omissão, a disposição, o ênfase... e essa palavra porca, com quatro letras: arte. A história da nossa vida nunca é uma autobiografia, é sempre um romance - é esse o primeiro erro que as pessoas fazem.
Sem revelar demasiado, basta dizer que, entre os acontecimentos de Amor & C.ª e Amor & Etc discorreu cerca de uma década. Uma década de histórias, versões dessas histórias, acontecimentos vários e várias leituras deles... Uma década de relatos que vamos ouvir da boca de três narradores em quem, agora como sempre, não podemos confiar:
O Oliver e eu andámos juntos na escola. Éramos os melhores amigos. Depois eu trabalhei para um banco. Ele ensinava inglês a estrangeiros. Gillian e eu conhecemo-nos. Ela restaurava quadros. Aliás, ainda restaura. Conhecemo-nos, apaixonámo-nos, casámos. Cometi o erro de pensar que era o final da história, quando era apenas o início. Acho que é um erro que muita gente faz. Vemos demasiados filmes, lemos demasiados livros, acreditamos demais nos nossos pais.
Nesta década os mal entendidos, as meias verdades, as boas intenções e as más ações continuam presentes, mas a situação escalou, escalou depressa e onde antes tínhamos snobes enfatuados, bonacheirões ofensivos mas inofensivos (ou assim nos pareciam), agora temos hipócritas envelhecidos, rancorosos bafientos e manipuladores doentios:
Eu negociava no trabalho e depois negociava no prazer. E conhecia muito bem esses dois mundos. As pessoas que não conhecem nenhum deles pensam que é tudo um mundo cão. Que o homem de fato cinzento está ali para nos enganar, e que a pega com perfume a mais revela ser um transsexual brasileiro, assim que apresentamos o cartão de crédito. Pois bem, posso afirmar que recebemos quase sempre aquilo que pagamos. Quase sempre as pessoas fazem o que dizem que farão. Quase sempre negócio é negócio. Quase sempre podemos confiar nas pessoas. Não quer dizer que deixemos a carteira aberta em cima da mesa. Não quer dizer que entreguemos cheques em branco e voltemos as costas no momento errado. Mas sabemos o chão que pisamos. Quase sempre.
Não, a verdadeira traição ocorre entre amigos, entre aqueles que amamos.
De alguma forma, e se eu pensava que já o Amor & C.ª conseguia ser perturbador, Barnes conseguiu, nesta sequela, trabalhar a sua anterior sátira até à exaustão - ou completude, depende da perspectiva -, transformando-a num relato tétrico de paixões obsessivas. Ao estilo do seu antecessor, Amor & Etc, atira a comicidade ao ar, mas mantém o estilo confessional, transformando o leitor ora no psicanalista ora no psicanalisado (tal é a força da comparação a que nos obriga), repetidamente interpelando e requisitando a nossa atenção já não como forma de absolvição, mas antes de cumplicidade:
É a infâmia que destrói o amor. E as leis, as propriedades, as preocupações financeiras e o estado policial. Se as condições tivessem sido diferentes, o amor teria sido diferente.
Não é, continua a não ser, tal como o anterior, um livro que deixe os leitores confortáveis, de todo! É um livro duro, frio até, de certo modo, e um livro no qual são as personagens que assumem todo e qualquer controlo e predam das fraquezas do leitor envolvendo-o à força numa ménage desassossegante, vertiginosa e sufocante.
Amor & Etc confronta-nos com verdades e possibilidades desagradáveis, com personagens odiosas, azedas, imperfeitas e incorrigíveis, e uma visão negra e amargurada sobre a vida, o amor e as relações interpessoais. Mas, se sobrevivemos a tudo isso, ler estes dois livros funciona como uma jornada de esclarecimento - não espiritual, mas emocional - e estas bofetadas literárias de abrir os olhos não têm preço.
Não creio nos deuses, é óbvio, a não ser como uma espécie de metáfora. Mas acredito que a vida é trágica, se ainda podemos usar este termo. A vida é um processo em que os nossos pontos fracos são inevitavelmente descobertos. É também um processo durante o qual somos castigados pelas nossas acções e desejos anteriores. Não justamente castigados, não - é a isso que me refiro quando digo que não acredito em deuses -, mas castigados, pura e simplesmente. Castigados de um modo anárquico, se quiserem.
Sem revelar demasiado, basta dizer que, entre os acontecimentos de Amor & C.ª e Amor & Etc discorreu cerca de uma década. Uma década de histórias, versões dessas histórias, acontecimentos vários e várias leituras deles... Uma década de relatos que vamos ouvir da boca de três narradores em quem, agora como sempre, não podemos confiar:
O Oliver e eu andámos juntos na escola. Éramos os melhores amigos. Depois eu trabalhei para um banco. Ele ensinava inglês a estrangeiros. Gillian e eu conhecemo-nos. Ela restaurava quadros. Aliás, ainda restaura. Conhecemo-nos, apaixonámo-nos, casámos. Cometi o erro de pensar que era o final da história, quando era apenas o início. Acho que é um erro que muita gente faz. Vemos demasiados filmes, lemos demasiados livros, acreditamos demais nos nossos pais.
Nesta década os mal entendidos, as meias verdades, as boas intenções e as más ações continuam presentes, mas a situação escalou, escalou depressa e onde antes tínhamos snobes enfatuados, bonacheirões ofensivos mas inofensivos (ou assim nos pareciam), agora temos hipócritas envelhecidos, rancorosos bafientos e manipuladores doentios:
Eu negociava no trabalho e depois negociava no prazer. E conhecia muito bem esses dois mundos. As pessoas que não conhecem nenhum deles pensam que é tudo um mundo cão. Que o homem de fato cinzento está ali para nos enganar, e que a pega com perfume a mais revela ser um transsexual brasileiro, assim que apresentamos o cartão de crédito. Pois bem, posso afirmar que recebemos quase sempre aquilo que pagamos. Quase sempre as pessoas fazem o que dizem que farão. Quase sempre negócio é negócio. Quase sempre podemos confiar nas pessoas. Não quer dizer que deixemos a carteira aberta em cima da mesa. Não quer dizer que entreguemos cheques em branco e voltemos as costas no momento errado. Mas sabemos o chão que pisamos. Quase sempre.
Não, a verdadeira traição ocorre entre amigos, entre aqueles que amamos.
De alguma forma, e se eu pensava que já o Amor & C.ª conseguia ser perturbador, Barnes conseguiu, nesta sequela, trabalhar a sua anterior sátira até à exaustão - ou completude, depende da perspectiva -, transformando-a num relato tétrico de paixões obsessivas. Ao estilo do seu antecessor, Amor & Etc, atira a comicidade ao ar, mas mantém o estilo confessional, transformando o leitor ora no psicanalista ora no psicanalisado (tal é a força da comparação a que nos obriga), repetidamente interpelando e requisitando a nossa atenção já não como forma de absolvição, mas antes de cumplicidade:
É a infâmia que destrói o amor. E as leis, as propriedades, as preocupações financeiras e o estado policial. Se as condições tivessem sido diferentes, o amor teria sido diferente.
Não é, continua a não ser, tal como o anterior, um livro que deixe os leitores confortáveis, de todo! É um livro duro, frio até, de certo modo, e um livro no qual são as personagens que assumem todo e qualquer controlo e predam das fraquezas do leitor envolvendo-o à força numa ménage desassossegante, vertiginosa e sufocante.
Amor & Etc confronta-nos com verdades e possibilidades desagradáveis, com personagens odiosas, azedas, imperfeitas e incorrigíveis, e uma visão negra e amargurada sobre a vida, o amor e as relações interpessoais. Mas, se sobrevivemos a tudo isso, ler estes dois livros funciona como uma jornada de esclarecimento - não espiritual, mas emocional - e estas bofetadas literárias de abrir os olhos não têm preço.
Não creio nos deuses, é óbvio, a não ser como uma espécie de metáfora. Mas acredito que a vida é trágica, se ainda podemos usar este termo. A vida é um processo em que os nossos pontos fracos são inevitavelmente descobertos. É também um processo durante o qual somos castigados pelas nossas acções e desejos anteriores. Não justamente castigados, não - é a isso que me refiro quando digo que não acredito em deuses -, mas castigados, pura e simplesmente. Castigados de um modo anárquico, se quiserem.
July 7, 2023
A Rashomon exercise, but late 20th century British rather than samurai, regarding a set of marriages. One husband is a sort of Ignatius Reilly type, belletristic and obnoxious. The other is a sort of business meathead. We marvel that either could obtain the attentions of a lover.
The text is written without a solitary narrator, presenting various characters’ statements into a record—not as dialogue. They each address an interlocutor whose speech is not represented, except indirectly when characters make phatic remarks. This sort of presentation may have a kafkaesque effect, if power interviews them as part of an inquest but remains invisible to us. Or it could function like a script for a documentary, cutting multiple interviews up in ways suitable for presentation on film, say. The various parts are for instance presented with some attention to the dramatic effects of juxtaposition, irony, suspense--as opposed to a cold record of testimony. Certainly worthwhile overall.
The text is written without a solitary narrator, presenting various characters’ statements into a record—not as dialogue. They each address an interlocutor whose speech is not represented, except indirectly when characters make phatic remarks. This sort of presentation may have a kafkaesque effect, if power interviews them as part of an inquest but remains invisible to us. Or it could function like a script for a documentary, cutting multiple interviews up in ways suitable for presentation on film, say. The various parts are for instance presented with some attention to the dramatic effects of juxtaposition, irony, suspense--as opposed to a cold record of testimony. Certainly worthwhile overall.
January 13, 2009
Julian Barnes is a strange fish. Kind of straddling both serious novels and escapism. He's like an extremely capable and intellectual novelist who's decided to write very accessibly just because it's fun that way. I like his sense of humour.
But it's there, in these stories. Deepness, darkness, complexity. He still seems to write with the assumption that every normal reader has a smattering of French and a good understanding of Greek mythology. He wears his smarts in the lining of his coat, not immediately apparent.
So this is a sequel to Talking It Over, one I didn't realise existed until I went looking for something in the parents' bookshelves (again). It seemed superfluous but I got into it. I still can't help picturing everyone as the characters from Peep Show.
Gillian was the character who bothered me most. The one exuding the aura of reasonableness and innocence while just manipulating all over the place. The guys seem so emotionally clueless they couldn't plan a mean thought and she just allows things to happen, all the while telling us about Love like it was a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Fun to see Oliver and Stuart passing each other on their respective arcs. Brings the overall story even closer to Martin Amis' Success though.
But it's there, in these stories. Deepness, darkness, complexity. He still seems to write with the assumption that every normal reader has a smattering of French and a good understanding of Greek mythology. He wears his smarts in the lining of his coat, not immediately apparent.
So this is a sequel to Talking It Over, one I didn't realise existed until I went looking for something in the parents' bookshelves (again). It seemed superfluous but I got into it. I still can't help picturing everyone as the characters from Peep Show.
Gillian was the character who bothered me most. The one exuding the aura of reasonableness and innocence while just manipulating all over the place. The guys seem so emotionally clueless they couldn't plan a mean thought and she just allows things to happen, all the while telling us about Love like it was a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Fun to see Oliver and Stuart passing each other on their respective arcs. Brings the overall story even closer to Martin Amis' Success though.
February 6, 2023
سردرآوردن از ماجراهای عاشقانه افراد و دنبال کردنشون، همیشه برای من کسالتآور بوده و مثلثهای عاشقانه کسالتآورتر. تنها دلیلی که تا پایان ادامه دادم این بود که مطمئن بشم هدف استیوئرت از بازگشت به رابطه انتقام بوده یا چیز دیگه. سبک جدید بارنز در روایت هم کمکی به جذابیت کتاب نکرده. تیپ شخصیتی بزرگسال کودکرفتار حتی توی داستانها هم خیلی غیرقابل تحمله و شخصیت آلیور تمام داستان روی اعصابم رژه میرفت. در مجموع بارنزِ هیاهویزمان و آرتور و جورج و طوطیفلوبر رو به بارنزِ تنها یک داستان و چیزهایی مانند عشق ترجیح میدم
October 29, 2025
це треба екранізувати у форматі мокʼюментарі, десь як офіс. форма незвична, але затягує. моє любіме — про роботу в ресторані)
багато псевдоглибини, яка на диво не сильно дратує:
«God is perfect; nothing in the world is perfect; therefore nothing in the world was made by God.»
«In life, every ending is just the start of another story.»
карочє, британщина. піде
багато псевдоглибини, яка на диво не сильно дратує:
«God is perfect; nothing in the world is perfect; therefore nothing in the world was made by God.»
«In life, every ending is just the start of another story.»
карочє, британщина. піде
December 30, 2022
A love triangle told in each of the points of view of the central characters, with occasional digressions into the POVs of peripheral characters.
Unfortunately, I had to let this one go midway, for as a novel it was constructed all wrong to me and did not hold my interest. The presentation is like a play of monologues: the characters speak to the reader and comment on the idiosyncrasies of the others, and sometimes drop clues to their own psyches. A novel approach, but a difficult one from which to parse important facts about the characters, for they get buried in throwaway lines, and in speculation and rumination.
The situation is also quite banal: artist wife leaves businessman husband for another artist; they meet several years later and the second guessing begins. The voices of the three are distinct and this is the only interesting feature: Stuart talks in the limited and stock vocabulary of a person of commerce; Oliver, the artist wife-stealer, is expansive and erudite, floating all over the place without a focus; and Gillian, the most grounded one, is yet the one who makes impulsive choices when it comes to matters of the heart.
I’m sure the novel would have made its way to a fitting conclusion despite its scatter-gun presentation, but at page 100 it still hadn’t done so and was firing all over the place, so I dropped off at that point. Experimental novels run the risk that often those experiments do not work. This experiment did not work for me.
Not necessarily the way to end my book reading for 2023 on a downer, but I did go shopping for good books at Christmas and have a few winners in the bag for posting next year. I hope they live up to the promise of their blurbs, which this book didn’t.
Unfortunately, I had to let this one go midway, for as a novel it was constructed all wrong to me and did not hold my interest. The presentation is like a play of monologues: the characters speak to the reader and comment on the idiosyncrasies of the others, and sometimes drop clues to their own psyches. A novel approach, but a difficult one from which to parse important facts about the characters, for they get buried in throwaway lines, and in speculation and rumination.
The situation is also quite banal: artist wife leaves businessman husband for another artist; they meet several years later and the second guessing begins. The voices of the three are distinct and this is the only interesting feature: Stuart talks in the limited and stock vocabulary of a person of commerce; Oliver, the artist wife-stealer, is expansive and erudite, floating all over the place without a focus; and Gillian, the most grounded one, is yet the one who makes impulsive choices when it comes to matters of the heart.
I’m sure the novel would have made its way to a fitting conclusion despite its scatter-gun presentation, but at page 100 it still hadn’t done so and was firing all over the place, so I dropped off at that point. Experimental novels run the risk that often those experiments do not work. This experiment did not work for me.
Not necessarily the way to end my book reading for 2023 on a downer, but I did go shopping for good books at Christmas and have a few winners in the bag for posting next year. I hope they live up to the promise of their blurbs, which this book didn’t.
December 21, 2020
Middle class bores in a love triangle which I can only see as a benefit as it means that none of them are free to trouble another person.
It's John Lewis porn - wealthy organic grocers, art restorers, breaks in quaint French towns - with a thin thread to hang all the signalling from and the tale pivots on a completely ridiculous and unbelievable event.
Does any woman in her right mind imagine that an ex-husband who is still in love with her and wants nothing more than to have her back to the extent he has followed her and watching her while she holidays in aforementioned french town, will see her new husband hit her (orchestrated by her for the express purpose of her ex-husband seeing) and think oh she's living a miserable existence I'll just stop stalking and leave her be? But she does and the reader has to pay the consequence with this drivel.
It's John Lewis porn - wealthy organic grocers, art restorers, breaks in quaint French towns - with a thin thread to hang all the signalling from and the tale pivots on a completely ridiculous and unbelievable event.
Does any woman in her right mind imagine that an ex-husband who is still in love with her and wants nothing more than to have her back to the extent he has followed her and watching her while she holidays in aforementioned french town, will see her new husband hit her (orchestrated by her for the express purpose of her ex-husband seeing) and think oh she's living a miserable existence I'll just stop stalking and leave her be? But she does and the reader has to pay the consequence with this drivel.
November 17, 2020
Seni Sevmiyorum kitabıyla tanıştığımız üç kahramanımızın 10 yıl sonra neler yaşadığını ve ne hallerde olduklarını okuyoruz.
Tek söyleyeceğim çok ağır bir ters köşe okuduğumuz. Cidden okumayı beklediğim bu değil ki bu da kitabı şahane kılıyor.
Barnes cidden bir kurgu sihirbazı benim için. Kurgunun ince kıvrımlarında kaybolmak istiyorum ve insanın aşk, hayat istekler ve elde edilenler karşısındaki psikolojisini okumak istiyorum derseniz buyurunuz.
Keyifli okumalar!
Tek söyleyeceğim çok ağır bir ters köşe okuduğumuz. Cidden okumayı beklediğim bu değil ki bu da kitabı şahane kılıyor.
Barnes cidden bir kurgu sihirbazı benim için. Kurgunun ince kıvrımlarında kaybolmak istiyorum ve insanın aşk, hayat istekler ve elde edilenler karşısındaki psikolojisini okumak istiyorum derseniz buyurunuz.
Keyifli okumalar!
October 28, 2018
I’m glad I have been reading all these books by Barnes. Ten years have gone by now and the three people we met in Talking it Over have gone through remarkable changes: personal, occupational, habitual, mental. They are narrating what happened to them over the ten years and what has been happening to them in the recent period. The book starts exactly where I wanted. I wanted Gillian’s account of the last event in Takking it Over and this is where Love, etc. begins. Julian Barnes has had a great mastery of writing in these people. After ten years, the rhetoric of the people have changed too and Barnes has made this change happen dexterously.
The narration here in this book is more scattered in comparison to Talking it Over. While in the first book, we often see people’s account of the same event back to back, here you see there are people who are talking one after the other and the ties are not so immediate. The second book, in addition, involves more characters and I specifically got crazy about Terri whose accounts of crabbing was spectacular; while sounding irrelevant, Terri’s pieces were wonderfully knitted to the rest of the story.
The narration here in this book is more scattered in comparison to Talking it Over. While in the first book, we often see people’s account of the same event back to back, here you see there are people who are talking one after the other and the ties are not so immediate. The second book, in addition, involves more characters and I specifically got crazy about Terri whose accounts of crabbing was spectacular; while sounding irrelevant, Terri’s pieces were wonderfully knitted to the rest of the story.
April 5, 2024
Da podsetim da sam prvom knjigom "Troje" bila oduševljena a ovaj nastavak me nije baš oduvao.
Stil je isti, i dalje osećaj prisustva ali... nekako mi bilo dovoljno ove priče. Sada je ubacio i neke nepotrebne ljude po mom mišljenju.
Da sam znala, zadržala bih se samo na prvoj knjizi.
Stil je isti, i dalje osećaj prisustva ali... nekako mi bilo dovoljno ove priče. Sada je ubacio i neke nepotrebne ljude po mom mišljenju.
Da sam znala, zadržala bih se samo na prvoj knjizi.
May 5, 2013
From BBC Radio 4 - Saturday Drama:
Julian Barnes' absorbing tale of betrayal and revenge wrapped within humour and despair.
Julian Barnes' absorbing tale of betrayal and revenge wrapped within humour and despair.
February 12, 2021
Seems a bit drifty and pointless for a lot of it but once a crucial point is hit, everything makes a lot more sense. For this reason, I felt that the construction was messier than some other Barnes novels but I’ll probably come to appreciate it the more I think about it (as with the rest of Barnes, save BSSM and TNOT).
Aside from love and memory, this book deals a surprising bit with maturity - growing up and taking responsibility - which has deepened my appreciation of Barnes because I never quite realised this aspect was present in quite a few of his other books as well.
It has many quotable moments and the ending is better than most other Barnes novels I’ve read.
Aside from love and memory, this book deals a surprising bit with maturity - growing up and taking responsibility - which has deepened my appreciation of Barnes because I never quite realised this aspect was present in quite a few of his other books as well.
It has many quotable moments and the ending is better than most other Barnes novels I’ve read.
July 20, 2022
Ik keek uit naar dit vervolg op 'Trioloog'. Helaas, dit is geen vervolg. Pas in de laatste 20 pagina's wil er nog wel eens iets gebeuren en krijg je weer zo'n open einde. En dit keer liet me dat volkomen koud.
Een tweede koude persing dus, maar wel van een vakman.
Een tweede koude persing dus, maar wel van een vakman.
April 18, 2023
صحنه توصیف اتفاقات گذشته و حال از زبان چند نفر برای یک روانشناس که در بین انها دو مرد که همسر قبلی و فعلی یک زن هستند وجود دارد که داستان حول روابط انها در طی سالهاست
August 20, 2012
Not one, not two, but three—count ‘em—three unreliable narrators. How fun! Julian Barnes is brilliant. This is the story of a love triangle, of sorts. Oh it’s all so very modern, or post-modern, or at least contemporary. Gillian and Oliver are married. Oliver’s one time best friend is Stuart. Gillian and Stuart were once married. Oliver “stole” Gillian from him (one might say). Oliver is a pompous prig, an over-educated wastrel, with various projects "in development" (which is another way of saying he thinks about things to do, but never does them). Stuart was a bit of a milquetoast but seems to come into his own when he leaves England after the divorce, goes to the States and becomes a successful businessman in organic veggie marketing. Go figure, it was the nineties. Of course, then he comes back: back to England, back into Gillian’s and Oliver’s lives.
But none of that is important, that’s only plot and character. No, the brilliant and highly entertaining part of this book is the way it’s told: in separate, long, individualised “block quotes”. As if the characters were speaking to an un- identified interviewer, the person behind the camera. Think of Woody Allen and Diane Keaton in Annie Hall, in the therapists’ sessions, speaking directly at the camera, the questions unheard, only inferred from the replies. And you, the readers, are the camera. Of course you didn’t hear the questions you’re hearing over your shoulder (busy adjusting the lens or f-stop or something), so every utterance—no matter how seemingly banal—is brilliant, and fraught with potential weight.
And others get their say as well: Gillian’s mother, for example, has a fair bit to contribute, and Stuart’s second ex-wife. And Gillian’s young assistant (who’s shagging Stuart); even Gill’s and Ollie’s daughter, Sophie (poor kid).
The artistry of course is that one hears each individual voice in the writing—every few paragraphs the text shifts suddenly into that individual character’s voice. Some are easier than others, the children, Gill’s mother (she’s French and doesn’t speak the English so well, yes?), but the three principles are all of the same class and educational background. It’s very well done and extremely entertaining.
Love, etc., would make a fantastic mock-umentary. I kept seeing, or hearing rather, Hugh Laurie as Stuart, but he’s a little long in the tooth at this point; the principal liars are all in their mid-40s: Still not too late for a youthful indiscretion.
(Unfortunately I found after having finished that this is a sequal to his 1991 novel Talking it Over, which has the same format. I'm really going to have to check these things out.)
But none of that is important, that’s only plot and character. No, the brilliant and highly entertaining part of this book is the way it’s told: in separate, long, individualised “block quotes”. As if the characters were speaking to an un- identified interviewer, the person behind the camera. Think of Woody Allen and Diane Keaton in Annie Hall, in the therapists’ sessions, speaking directly at the camera, the questions unheard, only inferred from the replies. And you, the readers, are the camera. Of course you didn’t hear the questions you’re hearing over your shoulder (busy adjusting the lens or f-stop or something), so every utterance—no matter how seemingly banal—is brilliant, and fraught with potential weight.
And others get their say as well: Gillian’s mother, for example, has a fair bit to contribute, and Stuart’s second ex-wife. And Gillian’s young assistant (who’s shagging Stuart); even Gill’s and Ollie’s daughter, Sophie (poor kid).
The artistry of course is that one hears each individual voice in the writing—every few paragraphs the text shifts suddenly into that individual character’s voice. Some are easier than others, the children, Gill’s mother (she’s French and doesn’t speak the English so well, yes?), but the three principles are all of the same class and educational background. It’s very well done and extremely entertaining.
Love, etc., would make a fantastic mock-umentary. I kept seeing, or hearing rather, Hugh Laurie as Stuart, but he’s a little long in the tooth at this point; the principal liars are all in their mid-40s: Still not too late for a youthful indiscretion.
(Unfortunately I found after having finished that this is a sequal to his 1991 novel Talking it Over, which has the same format. I'm really going to have to check these things out.)
March 14, 2012
It’s hard to imagine a more perfect marriage of form and content than Love, etc, in which Julian Barnes continues the story of characters that came to life in Talking It Over. If, however, this marriage is fine, then equally the marriage of Gillian and Oliver is not. And neither, for that matter, was the previous one that temporarily joined Gillian and Stuart.
Julian Barnes tells the story of this love triangle entirely in the first person. Gillian, Oliver and Stuart appear like talking heads on a screen to relate their own side of things. Since we left them at the end of Talking It Over, Stuart has moved to the States, where he has become a successful businessman and has found a new partner. Oliver, meanwhile, having won the hand of fair Gillian, has started his family but has fallen on hard times, an experience he seems to regard merely as a passing phase, except that it’s clearly not a phase and neither does it pass. Re-enter Stuart, and thus the situation progresses.
Occasionally, especially when the principal actors mention them, minor characters appear to have their often substantial say. There is an ex, a new girlfriend, an occasional mother. Also, the children have their say, their naiveté as confused as it is innocent, their vagueness inherited, perhaps, from their personal environment.
And so a story unfolds. Oliver is as full of theatre and bravura as he was throughout Talking It Over, but now it rings more of a bluff, a screen erected for self-protection rather than an extrovert’s sheen. Unemployment and illness seem to have exhausted him. Stuart, having made his fortune, is on an up and begins to reassert his desire to occupy the position he has always coveted, the space by Gillian’s side.
There are surprises in store, surprises for the characters and for the reader. But what Julian Barnes communicates with such subtlety, skill and ease are the inconsistencies of human character, the incongruities of events, the contradictions and deceptions of behaviour, and the illusions these confusions create. These people all act primarily out of self-interest. But then who doesn’t? That’s the point. And thus the process takes all of us to places we have all been, but have often failed to notice or acknowledge, even if we have admitted and recognised our motives, which most of us have not. Love, etc is a brilliant book, brilliantly conceived and brilliantly executed with a lightness of touch that leaves us wholly surprised when we encounter a fundamentally serious point. The plot? Who cares?
Julian Barnes tells the story of this love triangle entirely in the first person. Gillian, Oliver and Stuart appear like talking heads on a screen to relate their own side of things. Since we left them at the end of Talking It Over, Stuart has moved to the States, where he has become a successful businessman and has found a new partner. Oliver, meanwhile, having won the hand of fair Gillian, has started his family but has fallen on hard times, an experience he seems to regard merely as a passing phase, except that it’s clearly not a phase and neither does it pass. Re-enter Stuart, and thus the situation progresses.
Occasionally, especially when the principal actors mention them, minor characters appear to have their often substantial say. There is an ex, a new girlfriend, an occasional mother. Also, the children have their say, their naiveté as confused as it is innocent, their vagueness inherited, perhaps, from their personal environment.
And so a story unfolds. Oliver is as full of theatre and bravura as he was throughout Talking It Over, but now it rings more of a bluff, a screen erected for self-protection rather than an extrovert’s sheen. Unemployment and illness seem to have exhausted him. Stuart, having made his fortune, is on an up and begins to reassert his desire to occupy the position he has always coveted, the space by Gillian’s side.
There are surprises in store, surprises for the characters and for the reader. But what Julian Barnes communicates with such subtlety, skill and ease are the inconsistencies of human character, the incongruities of events, the contradictions and deceptions of behaviour, and the illusions these confusions create. These people all act primarily out of self-interest. But then who doesn’t? That’s the point. And thus the process takes all of us to places we have all been, but have often failed to notice or acknowledge, even if we have admitted and recognised our motives, which most of us have not. Love, etc is a brilliant book, brilliantly conceived and brilliantly executed with a lightness of touch that leaves us wholly surprised when we encounter a fundamentally serious point. The plot? Who cares?
September 1, 2017
This is a sequel to Talking It Over, which was one of Julian Barnes' most memorable and entertaining books, in which a romantic triangle was explored by alternating the voices of the protagonists and other characters. This book revisits them ten years later and is full of the same humour, ideas and observation, but moves into darker territory as the book progresses.
March 25, 2021
Barnes cannot be anything but clever, yet the playfulness gets sharpened to a bleeding edge. Probably the only book you'll ever put down saying to yourself, "Maybe it is True Love. Or rape. Or fake. Or pity. Or a mistake. Etc?" The polyphony is precisely not univocal. A real humdinger, this one. You think you know somebody, but love ensures you don't, happily ever after. It's a miracle, or nothing at all; it happens, or not, sometimes simultaneously, almost always one after the other. Say, "one after the other" ain't half bad. But which half? And what if there's a third for one of the couple? What happens to the love if uncoupled? It's complicated and just might continue to preoccupy cultural production for thousands more years. Okay, that's repulsively optimistic, but Barnes's discourse of irreconcilable differences deserves to be heard today.
October 7, 2014
All I could think when I was reading Love Etc. by Julian Barnes was the Rashomon effect. Here we have three friends, Oliver, Stuart, and Gillian, in a classic love triangle. But Barnes gives the love triangle a postmodern, playful twist where each character speaks to us, the reader, with face-to-face candor, as if we were some therapist in an office listening to their contradictory interpretations, feelings, and thoughts of the same events. This books is less about narrative and more about character and voice. That said, Barnes has an amazing ear for voice. Reading the book, hearing these characters speak their thoughts, I knew them. It's an intimate connection with characters that I don't think I've ever had with other books I've read.
This book is a continuation of another book by Barnes, Talking it Over, where we are first introduced to the trio. In Love, Etc. the devastation wrought in the first book is summarized for us: Stuart lost Gillian to his best friend Oliver. In the present day of Love, Etc., Stuart is back in the picture just as Gillian and Oliver are experiencing strains in their marriage.
The two friends have all but flipped in terms of their fortunes. Oliver is down in the dumps, depressed, unemployed. He makes up for this with feckless witticisms, last ditch efforts to maintain some dignity. Of the three characters, Oliver talks a lot, goes off on tangents. He wears his bruises on his sleeve. Meanwhile straight-man Stuart has morphed himself into a successful entrepreneur. He owns a chain of organic, green grocery stores in the States. Where he was once considered plain, awkward, he is reborn confident and wealthy. Stuart still pines for Gillian though—that's the crux of all this, and he tries to woo her back with a vengeance.
Gillian is the most interesting character for me. She is the object of desire for these two men, whether she wants to be or not. She works in art restoration and seems to be the one who holds their world together. She seems like the only grownup in the room, frankly. She is self-aware of her actions and what her actions have wrought. She confesses early in the book: "The point is you can love two people, one after the other, one interrupting the other, like I did. You can love them in different ways. And it doesn't mean one love is true and the other is false. That's what I wish I could have convinced Stuart. I loved each of them truly... Being in love makes you liable to fall in love. Isn't that a terrible paradox? Isn't that a terrible truth?"
The title is telling. I read somewhere that this is an echo of Oliver's observation in the earlier book when he says: "The world divides into two categories: those who believe that the purpose, the function, the bass pedal and principal melody of life is love, and that everything else—everything else—is merely an etc.; and those, those unhappy many, who believe primarily in the etc. of life, for whom love, however agreeable, is but a passing flurry of youth, the pattering prelude to nappy-duty, but not something as solid, steadfast and reliable as, say, home decoration.''
The big event of the novel takes place in the last twenty pages or so. Stuart forces himself on Gillian. They have passionate sex. She is raped. It's hard to say with certainty what has happened, and it changes depending on who's describing the event. This heightens the tensions, which Barnes never really resolves for us. There is so saving objectivity. He just leaves it hanging.
By the end, I was left wondering what the hell just happened. I didn't trust the characters' accounts anymore. But wasn't that the point all along? The apt ending to a story of mutual betrayal and love lost and regained? (I have to check and see if Barnes has a third novel that follows up this one.)
Love, Etc. is filled with deep insights into love, relationships, and life. Barnes's writing is breathtaking sometimes. It punches you in the gut. This book could have devolved into soap opera hysterics, but it never does. Instead it is a cacophony of pain and bitterness and joy and passion that is intense, cunning, and delightful.
Stand-out quote: "Beforehand you think: when I grow up I'll love someone, and I hope it goes right, but if it goes wrong I'll love another person, and if that goes wrong I'll love another person. Always assuming that you can find these people in the first place and that they'll let you love them. What you expect is that love or the ability to love is always there—life—are like that. You can't make yourself love someone, and you can't, in my experience, make yourself stop loving someone. In fact, if you want to divide people up in the matter of love, I'd suggest doing it this way: some people are fortunate, or unfortunate, enough to love several people, either one after the other, or overlapping; while other people are fortunate, or unfortunate,enough to be able to love only once in their life. The love once, and whatever happens, it doesn't go away. Some people only do it once. I've come to realize that I'm one of these. " - Stuart
This book is a continuation of another book by Barnes, Talking it Over, where we are first introduced to the trio. In Love, Etc. the devastation wrought in the first book is summarized for us: Stuart lost Gillian to his best friend Oliver. In the present day of Love, Etc., Stuart is back in the picture just as Gillian and Oliver are experiencing strains in their marriage.
The two friends have all but flipped in terms of their fortunes. Oliver is down in the dumps, depressed, unemployed. He makes up for this with feckless witticisms, last ditch efforts to maintain some dignity. Of the three characters, Oliver talks a lot, goes off on tangents. He wears his bruises on his sleeve. Meanwhile straight-man Stuart has morphed himself into a successful entrepreneur. He owns a chain of organic, green grocery stores in the States. Where he was once considered plain, awkward, he is reborn confident and wealthy. Stuart still pines for Gillian though—that's the crux of all this, and he tries to woo her back with a vengeance.
Gillian is the most interesting character for me. She is the object of desire for these two men, whether she wants to be or not. She works in art restoration and seems to be the one who holds their world together. She seems like the only grownup in the room, frankly. She is self-aware of her actions and what her actions have wrought. She confesses early in the book: "The point is you can love two people, one after the other, one interrupting the other, like I did. You can love them in different ways. And it doesn't mean one love is true and the other is false. That's what I wish I could have convinced Stuart. I loved each of them truly... Being in love makes you liable to fall in love. Isn't that a terrible paradox? Isn't that a terrible truth?"
The title is telling. I read somewhere that this is an echo of Oliver's observation in the earlier book when he says: "The world divides into two categories: those who believe that the purpose, the function, the bass pedal and principal melody of life is love, and that everything else—everything else—is merely an etc.; and those, those unhappy many, who believe primarily in the etc. of life, for whom love, however agreeable, is but a passing flurry of youth, the pattering prelude to nappy-duty, but not something as solid, steadfast and reliable as, say, home decoration.''
The big event of the novel takes place in the last twenty pages or so. Stuart forces himself on Gillian. They have passionate sex. She is raped. It's hard to say with certainty what has happened, and it changes depending on who's describing the event. This heightens the tensions, which Barnes never really resolves for us. There is so saving objectivity. He just leaves it hanging.
By the end, I was left wondering what the hell just happened. I didn't trust the characters' accounts anymore. But wasn't that the point all along? The apt ending to a story of mutual betrayal and love lost and regained? (I have to check and see if Barnes has a third novel that follows up this one.)
Love, Etc. is filled with deep insights into love, relationships, and life. Barnes's writing is breathtaking sometimes. It punches you in the gut. This book could have devolved into soap opera hysterics, but it never does. Instead it is a cacophony of pain and bitterness and joy and passion that is intense, cunning, and delightful.
Stand-out quote: "Beforehand you think: when I grow up I'll love someone, and I hope it goes right, but if it goes wrong I'll love another person, and if that goes wrong I'll love another person. Always assuming that you can find these people in the first place and that they'll let you love them. What you expect is that love or the ability to love is always there—life—are like that. You can't make yourself love someone, and you can't, in my experience, make yourself stop loving someone. In fact, if you want to divide people up in the matter of love, I'd suggest doing it this way: some people are fortunate, or unfortunate, enough to love several people, either one after the other, or overlapping; while other people are fortunate, or unfortunate,enough to be able to love only once in their life. The love once, and whatever happens, it doesn't go away. Some people only do it once. I've come to realize that I'm one of these. " - Stuart
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