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Memorabilia/Oeconomicus/Symposium/Apologia
MemorabiliaXenophon (c. 430 c. 354 BCE) adds to Plato s picture of Socrates from a different viewpoint. The Apology complements Plato s account of Socrates defense at his trial. The Symposium portrays a dinner party at which Socrates speaks of love. In Oeconomicus Socrates advises on household management and married life.
673 pages, Hardcover
Published January 1, 1923
17 people are currently reading
360 people want to read
About the author
Xenophon
2,427 books477 followersXenophon (Ancient Greek Ξενοφῶν, Modern Greek Ξενοφώντας; ca. 431 – 355 BC), son of Gryllus, of the deme Erchia of Athens, was a soldier, mercenary and a contemporary and admirer of Socrates. He is known for his writings on the history of his own times, preserving the sayings of Socrates, and the life of ancient Greece.
Historical and biographical works:
Anabasis (or The Persian Expedition)
Cyropaedia
Hellenica
Agesilaus
Socratic works and dialogues:
Memorabilia
Oeconomicus
Symposium
Apology
Hiero
Short treatises:
On Horsemanship
The Cavalry General
Hunting with Dogs
Ways and Means
Constitution of Sparta
Historical and biographical works:
Anabasis (or The Persian Expedition)
Cyropaedia
Hellenica
Agesilaus
Socratic works and dialogues:
Memorabilia
Oeconomicus
Symposium
Apology
Hiero
Short treatises:
On Horsemanship
The Cavalry General
Hunting with Dogs
Ways and Means
Constitution of Sparta
Ratings & Reviews
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Displaying 1 - 18 of 18 reviews
April 13, 2018
Xenophon's Socratic dialogues are really interesting, and unfairly neglected, I think. Much of his picture of Socrates aligns with Plato's. Sometimes the contrast is jarring, as when Xenophon recounts Socrates saying you should study geometry, astronomy, and math only insofar as you need them for practical tasks, and going further would only make you crazy. Wut?
I even enjoyed the Oeconomicus. Especially the part about how a household needs organization, if you ever hope to find what you need when you want it. I think I'll tactfully leave this volume lying around in hopes that the other Rolfes will pick it up and stumble across pages 457-467. If one them complains about this book always being in the way, I can get Socratic on them and ask, "So you would find it convenient for this book to have a place where it belongs, and to be put there?" This is gonna be great.
I even enjoyed the Oeconomicus. Especially the part about how a household needs organization, if you ever hope to find what you need when you want it. I think I'll tactfully leave this volume lying around in hopes that the other Rolfes will pick it up and stumble across pages 457-467. If one them complains about this book always being in the way, I can get Socratic on them and ask, "So you would find it convenient for this book to have a place where it belongs, and to be put there?" This is gonna be great.
June 30, 2019
Memorabilia
Xenophon’s Socrates doesn’t have the depth of Plato’s, but there are some similarities. Both are skilled interrogators and Xenophon does write with an easy style. His argument is that Socrates could not have been guilty of corrupting the youth or denying the gods. He shows that the corrupt followers became corrupt after leaving Socrates’s company.
Given the Greeks’ reputation for sensual license, Socrates appears as the epitome of restraint. He rebukes Critobulus’s advances towards Alcibiades’s slave boy, warning that it will unleash a danger Critobulus cannot control (I.3.8ff).
Xenophon also breaks with the Greek disdain over commerce. He explains to Nicomachides, who wants to be a good general but was not chosen, that every quality a merchant has, a general must have. He even tells him (in what can only be a break with the entire tradition), “Don’t look down on businessmen: (III.iv.12). There is a similar moving passage in the Oec.
While Xenophon largely exonerates Socrates on the point of morals, he almost paints him as a pick up artist at one point. He goes to visit Theodote and asks her how she plans to make a living since men’s love is fickle. She doesn’t know, so he basically teaches her “Game Theory.”
The Oeconomicus
This is Xenophon’s agrarian treatise. Mostly pretty good.
Xenophon’s Socrates doesn’t have the depth of Plato’s, but there are some similarities. Both are skilled interrogators and Xenophon does write with an easy style. His argument is that Socrates could not have been guilty of corrupting the youth or denying the gods. He shows that the corrupt followers became corrupt after leaving Socrates’s company.
Given the Greeks’ reputation for sensual license, Socrates appears as the epitome of restraint. He rebukes Critobulus’s advances towards Alcibiades’s slave boy, warning that it will unleash a danger Critobulus cannot control (I.3.8ff).
Xenophon also breaks with the Greek disdain over commerce. He explains to Nicomachides, who wants to be a good general but was not chosen, that every quality a merchant has, a general must have. He even tells him (in what can only be a break with the entire tradition), “Don’t look down on businessmen: (III.iv.12). There is a similar moving passage in the Oec.
While Xenophon largely exonerates Socrates on the point of morals, he almost paints him as a pick up artist at one point. He goes to visit Theodote and asks her how she plans to make a living since men’s love is fickle. She doesn’t know, so he basically teaches her “Game Theory.”
The Oeconomicus
This is Xenophon’s agrarian treatise. Mostly pretty good.
June 1, 2025
Xenophon, like Plato, was taught by Socrates. I'll report more.
July 29, 2012
Before these thoughts pass from me. I would like to write down why the memrobilia of xenophon is in my favourites, i think this work is a exploration by a human mind,told in a human voice.its a attempt to find our place in the world by free enquiry. This work was written before the great religions of the world and i think it shows how far we have degenrated into mindless dogmatists instead of the thinkers we are meant to be and which is shown in the memorabilia of xenophon.Its very interesting to come face to face with the flesh and blood Socrates and to see that even though the ancient Greeks lived so long ago but they still had the same concerns as us 2400 years later.
Memoribilia: This was Xenophon's recollections of Socrates. The impression you got about him was that he questioned everything, deconstructing all of our commonly held beliefs and values and trying to get to the "heart" of things.He was always willing to teach and expose his own beliefs to debate in order to become a better human being.The thing I liked about Socrates was as Xenophon himself pointed out in the beginning of the book was he deals with purely (almost) human matters and tries to improve us without straying into that of which he has no knowledge i.e. the supernatural.This does not mean he is irreligious however.
Oeconomicus: This is a treatise on how to manage a household and earn ones living..here again Socrates displays his sparkling wit and also gives us a insight to the source whom he learnt it from..He is truely humble and engaging as well as interesting both as a teacher and a pupil.
Symposium: Having not read Plato's version of it, I cannot compare the two however the thing I notice about Xenophon's Socrates is that he is more down to earth, much more accessible, much less of the Philospher he is made out to be by Plato and tbh thats how I like him..Like here he talks about Love which is so important to every single human being..He is as ever the clear thinker that I have come to know him and he expresses the thoughts I had on it in the recesses of my mind but could not express and for a change it was very witty aswell :)
Memoribilia: This was Xenophon's recollections of Socrates. The impression you got about him was that he questioned everything, deconstructing all of our commonly held beliefs and values and trying to get to the "heart" of things.He was always willing to teach and expose his own beliefs to debate in order to become a better human being.The thing I liked about Socrates was as Xenophon himself pointed out in the beginning of the book was he deals with purely (almost) human matters and tries to improve us without straying into that of which he has no knowledge i.e. the supernatural.This does not mean he is irreligious however.
Oeconomicus: This is a treatise on how to manage a household and earn ones living..here again Socrates displays his sparkling wit and also gives us a insight to the source whom he learnt it from..He is truely humble and engaging as well as interesting both as a teacher and a pupil.
Symposium: Having not read Plato's version of it, I cannot compare the two however the thing I notice about Xenophon's Socrates is that he is more down to earth, much more accessible, much less of the Philospher he is made out to be by Plato and tbh thats how I like him..Like here he talks about Love which is so important to every single human being..He is as ever the clear thinker that I have come to know him and he expresses the thoughts I had on it in the recesses of my mind but could not express and for a change it was very witty aswell :)
June 20, 2008
This review is based solely on the Memorabilia, because that was the only part I read; if I get to the other parts later, I'll add my comments. The Memorabilia is a very fine text to read for a sense of who Socrates was without Plato, and this is important in order to understand this formative influence on Plato's thought. One gets to hear Socrates talking about humble, rather unphilosophical topics, like physical fitness.
Socrates comes across as rather like Confucius, focused very firmly on ethics and a sense of responsibility for others, a little intolerant of metaphysical speculation. There is, I'm sure, a great story that shall never be told about how he influenced Plato, who was, I suspect, rather different by nature, a born metaphysician who probably found it difficult to do what was expected of him.
Xenophon himself, our narrator, comes across as a very decent sort, not a philosopher, but devoted to Socrates and to trying to explain what it was like to know him. He has written these memories of Socrates out of a sense of indebtedness, a sense of having been privileged and not knowing what bit of information might help Socrates come alive in our imagination.
Socrates comes across as rather like Confucius, focused very firmly on ethics and a sense of responsibility for others, a little intolerant of metaphysical speculation. There is, I'm sure, a great story that shall never be told about how he influenced Plato, who was, I suspect, rather different by nature, a born metaphysician who probably found it difficult to do what was expected of him.
Xenophon himself, our narrator, comes across as a very decent sort, not a philosopher, but devoted to Socrates and to trying to explain what it was like to know him. He has written these memories of Socrates out of a sense of indebtedness, a sense of having been privileged and not knowing what bit of information might help Socrates come alive in our imagination.
January 18, 2021
The Memorabilia is definitely worthwhile.
April 22, 2025
I enjoyed reading Xenophon's recollections of Socrates (with the exception of the Oeconomicus, which was quite boring). His version differs slightly from Plato's—more technical concerns, a positive daimon, an aversion to old age—but he also fleshes out Socrates more with amusing anecdotes. Even as Socrates feels more human here, he still retains his exemplary, virtuous character, being as inspiring as ever.
July 9, 2010
Records on Socrates are few, so Xenophon's are important, as Platon's, for all scholars and modern readers. I read especially socratic ideas about Physics that the philosopher contempts because of his ethical precedence.
Want to read
May 29, 2009Xenophon: Memorabilia. Oeconomicus. Symposium. Apologia. (Loeb Classical Library No. 168) by Xenophon (1923)
April 5, 2017
Plato shines over Xenophon in the Symposium and the Apology but his Oeconomicus (affairs of a household) shines light on the ancient Greek home.
May 7, 2025
I just finished reading this with my Catherine Project reading group (14 weeks, 2 hours a week). I can not recommend it enough. You spend two hours talking about a small portion of the book every week!
This was my first time reading Xenephon; I have read a lot of Plato's version of Socrates. This Socrates is much more accessible. I think my father (who loved Robinson Crusoe, Ben Franklin, and Proverbs) would have enjoyed this and hated Plato.
This group had a number of professors in it; one of them was a Straussian (disciples of Leo Strauss). He argued that this book has an outward message for the gentleman, and a hidden teaching for the philosopher.
This Socrates certainly says some suspect things.
This was my first time reading Xenephon; I have read a lot of Plato's version of Socrates. This Socrates is much more accessible. I think my father (who loved Robinson Crusoe, Ben Franklin, and Proverbs) would have enjoyed this and hated Plato.
This group had a number of professors in it; one of them was a Straussian (disciples of Leo Strauss). He argued that this book has an outward message for the gentleman, and a hidden teaching for the philosopher.
This Socrates certainly says some suspect things.
June 25, 2022
'And so, in contemplating the man's wisdom and nobility of character, I can neither put him out of mind or, when I remember him, refrain from praise. And if among those who make virtue their aim any one has ever been brought into contact with someone more helpful than Socrates, I think that man deserves to be called most fortunate.'
That is the way Xenophon chose to end the Apology, and this is the final page in the Loeb edition, and what a grand and fitting exit to this work.
That is the way Xenophon chose to end the Apology, and this is the final page in the Loeb edition, and what a grand and fitting exit to this work.
December 6, 2024
Estrenamos el club de lectura.
El banquete esta generado en paralelo al de Platón y se duda cual fue anterior a otro. Este es mucho mas ¿realista? No sé. Me ha gustado muchisimo la dinamica del retrato sincerito que naturaliza la forma en la que Sócrates lleva a cabo sus razonamientos impertinentes. Es mas normal y por tanto no tan lúcido como el de Platón, pero dudo que la intención sea la misma.
El banquete esta generado en paralelo al de Platón y se duda cual fue anterior a otro. Este es mucho mas ¿realista? No sé. Me ha gustado muchisimo la dinamica del retrato sincerito que naturaliza la forma en la que Sócrates lleva a cabo sus razonamientos impertinentes. Es mas normal y por tanto no tan lúcido como el de Platón, pero dudo que la intención sea la misma.
November 30, 2025
Una lectura mucho menos densa que Platón, pero un Sócrates mucho más humano. Me gustó mucho sobre todo el primer texto, «Recuerdos de Sócrates», donde el discípulo nos regala algunos retablos que nos acercan más al hombre que al personaje histórico.
También contiene un poco de humor.
También contiene un poco de humor.
June 11, 2022
Symposium: 4/5
December 14, 2024
Excellent translation, supreme subjects, and Xenophon’s special take on Socrates—a great and worthwhile read that will enrich you, the reader!
Read
February 18, 2025read this to save socrates in class and he still got murdered ❤️🩹
November 8, 2024
Interesante por lo que toca a datos históricos de Sócrates para completar y comparar con los datos seguramente más idealizados que nos ofrece Platón.
Se encuentran muchas ideas y asuntos problemáticos de la época: pederastia, esclavismo, mujer ignorada, usada básicamente como vientre reproductor...
Se encuentran muchas ideas y asuntos problemáticos de la época: pederastia, esclavismo, mujer ignorada, usada básicamente como vientre reproductor...
Displaying 1 - 18 of 18 reviews