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When We Were Good
The year 2000 isn't starting out too well for Toronto high school senior Katherine Boatman. Not only has her oldest friend ditched her for yet another boyfriend, her beloved grandmother died on New Year's Eve, leaving a void of goodness in her life that Katherine's not sure how to fill.
While overwhelmed with sadness and self-doubt, Katherine unexpectedly finds new love, both for Toronto's underground music scene and for her would-be savior: a straight-edge, loudmouthed misfit named Marie.
As Katherine seeks comfort in jagged guitars, mind-reading poets and honest conversations, she struggles to figure out not only what she and Marie might mean to each other, but also what it truly means to be good.
While overwhelmed with sadness and self-doubt, Katherine unexpectedly finds new love, both for Toronto's underground music scene and for her would-be savior: a straight-edge, loudmouthed misfit named Marie.
As Katherine seeks comfort in jagged guitars, mind-reading poets and honest conversations, she struggles to figure out not only what she and Marie might mean to each other, but also what it truly means to be good.
240 pages, Paperback
First published April 15, 2013
1 person is currently reading
500 people want to read
About the author
Suzanne Sutherland
9 books25 followersSuzanne Sutherland (she/her) is the author of a number of books for young people, including the Jordan and Max series. Jordan and Max, Field Trip! was named a Children's Book Council Librarian Favorite and a CCBC Best Book for Kids & Teens. She lives in Toronto with her family.
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Displaying 1 - 20 of 20 reviews
May 13, 2013
Suzanne Sutherland's debut YA novel is a fabulous story of teen angst. This is a page-turner with a tight plot, beautifully described (Toronto) settings and a well-drawn protagonist navigating her world of grief, parental neglect, friendships gone awry, the indie music scene and confusing sexual desires. It's also a story about how friendships, resilience, literature and music can pull us out of hardship and help us find ourselves.
June 26, 2013
Writing characters with mental illness is always a delicate balance. Representing the character’s experience in an authentic way without alienating the reader is tricky stuff, but Sutherland manages to nab this balance. Marie is an interesting character and a unique love interest for Katherine, not solely because there are so few lesbian love stories in YA, but because she is just as irritating as she is endearing. I oscillated between really liking Marie to finding her oppressive throughout the novel, but there is no denying that her incredibly energy, dedication to music and sheer life force is exactly what Katherine needs.
I very much enjoyed the Toronto experience in the book and I imagine readers will, too. It’s not enough to mention street names (Queen West) and landmarks (Bloor Street Viaduct), in order to create an authentic experience you have to capture the atmosphere, energy and community of a city, which Sutherland does. It’s sad that in 2013 it feels like a rare treat to come across Canadian-isms in kidlit and YA. I do not believe that if a YA reader in Tennessee, Sheffield, or Brisbane picked up this (or any other Canadian specific book) they would frown at the place names and think, “Oh this is Canadian, I can’t relate” and stop reading. Good on Sutherland and Three O’Clock Press for sticking to their guns.
For full review, please visit vikkivansickle.wordpress.com
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December 3, 2015Graded By: Alix
Cover Story: Chronologically Appropriate
BFF Charm:Maybe Roger Murtaugh
Swoonworthy Scale: 1
Talky Talk: Straight Up Angsty
Bonus Factors: Diversity
Anti-Bonus Factors: Peer Pressure
Relationship Status: Young Mentee
Read the full book report here.
Cover Story: Chronologically Appropriate
BFF Charm:
Swoonworthy Scale: 1
Talky Talk: Straight Up Angsty
Bonus Factors: Diversity
Anti-Bonus Factors: Peer Pressure
Relationship Status: Young Mentee
Read the full book report here.
April 16, 2023
Just another really good book that, for no apparent reason, fell out of print and is not even any longer available as Kindle edition. But The Internet Archive (archive.org) has good scans and a pre-publishing version is available from the author's Wattpad page:
https://www.wattpad.com/story/2731903....
That latter one is in principle equivalent to the print edition which was just somewhat shortened and restructured regarding chapters, sections, and paragraph breaks.
https://www.wattpad.com/story/2731903....
That latter one is in principle equivalent to the print edition which was just somewhat shortened and restructured regarding chapters, sections, and paragraph breaks.
February 26, 2021
I can't really think of another novel with straight edge characters, and I really appreciate this book for that.
February 26, 2016
This review originally posted at More Than Just Magic
Not only does When We Were Good tell the story of a young girl trying to figure out who she is and how she can do some good in the world, it’s also a portrait of a city at a particular point in time. That city being, of course, Toronto.
Sometimes the city a novel is set in is inconsequential. It could be any major city centre, but this story is so grounded in Toronto it’s impossible to imagine it somewhere else. Sutherland has taken great care to draw as detailed a picture as she can, its pieces scattered among a story of grief, young love and underground music. Early on in the novel, Katherine and her classmates are discussing Michael Ondaatje’s In the Skin of a Lion – another book is which the city of Toronto plays a central role. Their teacher encourages them to think about why Toronto’s identity is central to the story and by extension readers of this book are encouraged to do the same.
Sutherland takes the reader back to the year 2000 – post the Y2K madness. The world hasn’t ended and people find a way to carry on living their life as they always did. Except Katherine. Her world has been changed forever because New Year’s Eve is also the day her grandmother dies. The reader never gets to “meet” the grandmother, only see her through Katherine’s memories, but it is enough to demonstrate the important role she played in her granddaughter’s life. When We Were Good is a very honest portrayal of grief. Not everyone grieves the same but I think there are some common emotions that many people are going to be able to relate to.
In particular, the struggle to honour the person who has passed on. This is a question that weighs heavily on Katherine’s mind throughout the novel. She finds a lost $50 bill and wants to do something good with it but is vexed with the problem of what real good can you do with $50? It was interesting to see how the different people in her life responded to the question and very telling about what kind of person they were. Perhaps this should be a standard question to ask when you’re getting to know someone.
The wild card of this novel is Katherine and Marie’s relationship – both when they are friends and when they are more than that. It is a difficult relationship to say the least. That’s not to say it’s a bad one. I think in the long run they are exactly what each other needs. But they are both so different it takes them some time to get to that point. Katherine is more withdrawn and nervous about saying the wrong thing. It makes the reader want to intervene and give her a push in the right direction. Marie on the other hand is quite loud and opinionated and there were times I wanted her to dial it down a notch. She’s a good person and her heart is in the right place but she feels things so deeply and so impulsively at times she was difficult to be around.
When We Were Good is a short novel but it accomplishes what it set out to do. It tells the story of one quiet, grief stricken girl coming to terms with who she is, how she fits into this world and exactly how one can be “good.” Despite its subject matter it’s not a particularly emotional tale (there were no tears from this reader) but that makes it no less meaningful and poignant. And if nothing else it made me want to get out and explore the music scene of my city a little more thoroughly.
Not only does When We Were Good tell the story of a young girl trying to figure out who she is and how she can do some good in the world, it’s also a portrait of a city at a particular point in time. That city being, of course, Toronto.
Sometimes the city a novel is set in is inconsequential. It could be any major city centre, but this story is so grounded in Toronto it’s impossible to imagine it somewhere else. Sutherland has taken great care to draw as detailed a picture as she can, its pieces scattered among a story of grief, young love and underground music. Early on in the novel, Katherine and her classmates are discussing Michael Ondaatje’s In the Skin of a Lion – another book is which the city of Toronto plays a central role. Their teacher encourages them to think about why Toronto’s identity is central to the story and by extension readers of this book are encouraged to do the same.
Sutherland takes the reader back to the year 2000 – post the Y2K madness. The world hasn’t ended and people find a way to carry on living their life as they always did. Except Katherine. Her world has been changed forever because New Year’s Eve is also the day her grandmother dies. The reader never gets to “meet” the grandmother, only see her through Katherine’s memories, but it is enough to demonstrate the important role she played in her granddaughter’s life. When We Were Good is a very honest portrayal of grief. Not everyone grieves the same but I think there are some common emotions that many people are going to be able to relate to.
In particular, the struggle to honour the person who has passed on. This is a question that weighs heavily on Katherine’s mind throughout the novel. She finds a lost $50 bill and wants to do something good with it but is vexed with the problem of what real good can you do with $50? It was interesting to see how the different people in her life responded to the question and very telling about what kind of person they were. Perhaps this should be a standard question to ask when you’re getting to know someone.
The wild card of this novel is Katherine and Marie’s relationship – both when they are friends and when they are more than that. It is a difficult relationship to say the least. That’s not to say it’s a bad one. I think in the long run they are exactly what each other needs. But they are both so different it takes them some time to get to that point. Katherine is more withdrawn and nervous about saying the wrong thing. It makes the reader want to intervene and give her a push in the right direction. Marie on the other hand is quite loud and opinionated and there were times I wanted her to dial it down a notch. She’s a good person and her heart is in the right place but she feels things so deeply and so impulsively at times she was difficult to be around.
When We Were Good is a short novel but it accomplishes what it set out to do. It tells the story of one quiet, grief stricken girl coming to terms with who she is, how she fits into this world and exactly how one can be “good.” Despite its subject matter it’s not a particularly emotional tale (there were no tears from this reader) but that makes it no less meaningful and poignant. And if nothing else it made me want to get out and explore the music scene of my city a little more thoroughly.
August 22, 2017
While the world didn't end when the calender turned from December 31st, 1999 to January 1st, 2000, things in Katherine Boatman's life aren't going so well. Her best friend and her couldn't be further apart and her grandmother died suddenly on New Year's Eve, leaving a void that she doesn't know how to fill. In When We Were Good, Suzanne Sutherland offers the world a beautifully written debut novel with an edgy realness that teens who are struggling with (or who have struggled with) their sexuality will appreciate.
Sutherland writes a believable and sensitive portrait of a teen girl, who is struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts, with feelings of self-hatred and the confusing feelings of love for someone of the same gender, and she does it in a way that makes the city of Toronto, a $50 bill with William Lyon MacKenzie-King's face, and the underground music scene at the time into vibrant characters in their own right. For someone, like myself, who has been living in Toronto for less than a year, who still doesn't have a complete understanding of Toronto's geography or history, I feel like this book was published at the perfect time. I also love that Michael Ondaatje's In The Skin of a Lion, which is about the construction of Toronto's infamous Bloor Viaduct and the lives of the immigrants who built this city, but weren't remembered by history, is such a strong feature in Sutherland's novel. Of course, it makes perfect sense to those who know the history of the viaduct since the novel takes place two years after a suicide barrier was approved for the bridge, called "The Luminous Veil." However, more than the historical significance, the importance of Ondaatje's book signals aspects of thematic importance about When We Were Good, including the various histories that have been written on this city, and of course, the depression that Katherine is going through.
I've read some other reviews on Goodreads that questioned the relationship between Marie and Katherine, saying that the "love interest" came on far too strong for someone who was struggling with their sexuality, but personally, I just don't see that. Yes, Katherine was struggling with her feelings for Marie, but the latter never crossed the line. Marie is direct about her sexuality, but I don't see a problem with being honest and open about being a lesbian with a friend. If anything, Ivan - a guy Katherine meets at a concert - came on far too strong and his affections toward Katherine felt "wrong."
Sutherland writes a believable and sensitive portrait of a teen girl, who is struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts, with feelings of self-hatred and the confusing feelings of love for someone of the same gender, and she does it in a way that makes the city of Toronto, a $50 bill with William Lyon MacKenzie-King's face, and the underground music scene at the time into vibrant characters in their own right. For someone, like myself, who has been living in Toronto for less than a year, who still doesn't have a complete understanding of Toronto's geography or history, I feel like this book was published at the perfect time. I also love that Michael Ondaatje's In The Skin of a Lion, which is about the construction of Toronto's infamous Bloor Viaduct and the lives of the immigrants who built this city, but weren't remembered by history, is such a strong feature in Sutherland's novel. Of course, it makes perfect sense to those who know the history of the viaduct since the novel takes place two years after a suicide barrier was approved for the bridge, called "The Luminous Veil." However, more than the historical significance, the importance of Ondaatje's book signals aspects of thematic importance about When We Were Good, including the various histories that have been written on this city, and of course, the depression that Katherine is going through.
I've read some other reviews on Goodreads that questioned the relationship between Marie and Katherine, saying that the "love interest" came on far too strong for someone who was struggling with their sexuality, but personally, I just don't see that. Yes, Katherine was struggling with her feelings for Marie, but the latter never crossed the line. Marie is direct about her sexuality, but I don't see a problem with being honest and open about being a lesbian with a friend. If anything, Ivan - a guy Katherine meets at a concert - came on far too strong and his affections toward Katherine felt "wrong."
June 29, 2013
I received my copy from Goodreads First Reads.
I really enjoyed this book with its plot and themes about goodness and not caring about the views of society. I liked the strong personalities of the characters as well as the varying voices of Katherine in different situations--clipped with family, but open about Megan and Marie. The possible romance between Katherine and Marie was also well-done in that they don't immediately fall for each other, but the author lets it build up to leave the reader uncertain about their eventual relationship until the final page.
However, there were some problems that I noticed with the writing style. From the first page, I felt like a lot of unnecessary words were repeated (mainly "so"), and that the language could have been tightened. Not only were words being repeated, but a lot of paragraphs had many consecutive sentences that began with "I verb-ed," which is an easy trap to fall into with first person narrative, and they seemed to occur during moments that were overly detailed, such as when she's getting Oreos and tells the reader every single action, when it could easily be summed up without taking anything away from the story. The last issue was in the dialogue. Many of the dialogue tags were "said" and lacked any variance, like "muttered" or "exclaimed," that would provide more insight into how the characters said their lines and what the emotion was behind them. Plus, some of the dialogue tags were used too much, which distracted me from the narrative.
But just as much as there were problems, there were also parts that were amazing. When Katherine talks about her family and the moments with her Mom, her voice becomes objective, which emphasizes how distant she and her parents have become. The same happens with Jack and Marie: when she talks about her love for them, her half-interest in Jack is clear as is her confusion with her feelings for Marie.
Despite the need for tightening, this was a very good book and I love the emotion throughout it. The setting, characters, and influence of music worked well for the story.
I really enjoyed this book with its plot and themes about goodness and not caring about the views of society. I liked the strong personalities of the characters as well as the varying voices of Katherine in different situations--clipped with family, but open about Megan and Marie. The possible romance between Katherine and Marie was also well-done in that they don't immediately fall for each other, but the author lets it build up to leave the reader uncertain about their eventual relationship until the final page.
However, there were some problems that I noticed with the writing style. From the first page, I felt like a lot of unnecessary words were repeated (mainly "so"), and that the language could have been tightened. Not only were words being repeated, but a lot of paragraphs had many consecutive sentences that began with "I verb-ed," which is an easy trap to fall into with first person narrative, and they seemed to occur during moments that were overly detailed, such as when she's getting Oreos and tells the reader every single action, when it could easily be summed up without taking anything away from the story. The last issue was in the dialogue. Many of the dialogue tags were "said" and lacked any variance, like "muttered" or "exclaimed," that would provide more insight into how the characters said their lines and what the emotion was behind them. Plus, some of the dialogue tags were used too much, which distracted me from the narrative.
But just as much as there were problems, there were also parts that were amazing. When Katherine talks about her family and the moments with her Mom, her voice becomes objective, which emphasizes how distant she and her parents have become. The same happens with Jack and Marie: when she talks about her love for them, her half-interest in Jack is clear as is her confusion with her feelings for Marie.
Despite the need for tightening, this was a very good book and I love the emotion throughout it. The setting, characters, and influence of music worked well for the story.
August 15, 2013
I agree with one of the reviews here that I am probably too old to enjoy this book, although I did appreciate the Toronto references and thought how a pre-teenaged me would have been thrilled to recognize the downtown and indie rock landmarks name-checked in it. (Though it might have been more fun had the author branched out a little beyond a few Annex sites and the Kathedral/Reverb/Holy Joe trifecta of kiddie punk rock in her survey of all ages Toronto circa 2000.)
Overall, it felt like a sincere first effort by a very young author and amounted to a fairly fast and fun read. I do have to comment on the rather sloppy editing and copy-editing job by the publisher that put it out, Three O'Clock Press: the spelling and other errors that popped up fairly regularly in these pages were quite distracting. Though I hate to knock a small press, it's really these details more than any other that mark efforts like these as being less than professional. I'd suggest more thorough proofreading on their next venture.
I have to say the best part about having read this book is discovering, through this site, linked from a similarly meh review, the existence of foreveryoungadult.com - it looks brilliant, and like a place where I will be spending quite a lot of time very soon.
Overall, it felt like a sincere first effort by a very young author and amounted to a fairly fast and fun read. I do have to comment on the rather sloppy editing and copy-editing job by the publisher that put it out, Three O'Clock Press: the spelling and other errors that popped up fairly regularly in these pages were quite distracting. Though I hate to knock a small press, it's really these details more than any other that mark efforts like these as being less than professional. I'd suggest more thorough proofreading on their next venture.
I have to say the best part about having read this book is discovering, through this site, linked from a similarly meh review, the existence of foreveryoungadult.com - it looks brilliant, and like a place where I will be spending quite a lot of time very soon.
January 24, 2014
http://librarytalker.blogspot.com/201...
Katherine is facing her final year of school without her best friend: her grandmother. Her grandmother had always been there even when her overly busy parents weren't, so when she passes away from a heart attack on New Year's Eve, it means that Kathy doesn't have her most important person anymore.
And that's when Marie walks into her life. Marie's a straight-edge, no booze, no drugs, no filter-on-her-mouth, kind of girl. She talks and talks, filling in the silence in Kathy's life with words and with amazing music.
Together, they face their final days in school, as well as the anger of former friends. Kathy learns more about herself in these months than she ever knew before.
Final thoughts: Decent read about self-discovery and personal relationships. It's LGBTQ only in the vaguest sense, since it's not the real focus of the story, but it does impact it. Nothing really stands out as either good or bad. It's OK.
Katherine is facing her final year of school without her best friend: her grandmother. Her grandmother had always been there even when her overly busy parents weren't, so when she passes away from a heart attack on New Year's Eve, it means that Kathy doesn't have her most important person anymore.
And that's when Marie walks into her life. Marie's a straight-edge, no booze, no drugs, no filter-on-her-mouth, kind of girl. She talks and talks, filling in the silence in Kathy's life with words and with amazing music.
Together, they face their final days in school, as well as the anger of former friends. Kathy learns more about herself in these months than she ever knew before.
Final thoughts: Decent read about self-discovery and personal relationships. It's LGBTQ only in the vaguest sense, since it's not the real focus of the story, but it does impact it. Nothing really stands out as either good or bad. It's OK.
January 23, 2016
A coming-out-coming-of-age story in many ways, set in my beloved Toronto. It was a great kind of feeling to read about streets and places I know and also to contextualize that with music and the real end of an era, literally.
It's a lovely, engaging read that delves into the sort of maelstrom self-discovery brings when you least expect it. I loved this character's relationships with her parents - as a couple and individually. I liked how detached she was from them and how she compared it with the parents of her friends. But I also really loved how none of that mattered much, in the end.
I also thoroughly enjoyed Katherine's thoughts about Marie, about how we're drawn to people and have absolutely no idea why. The ways in which it became obvious "why" to Katherine are delicately explored in a very pleasing sort of confused manner. And the teen-speak was PERFECTION.
It's a lovely, engaging read that delves into the sort of maelstrom self-discovery brings when you least expect it. I loved this character's relationships with her parents - as a couple and individually. I liked how detached she was from them and how she compared it with the parents of her friends. But I also really loved how none of that mattered much, in the end.
I also thoroughly enjoyed Katherine's thoughts about Marie, about how we're drawn to people and have absolutely no idea why. The ways in which it became obvious "why" to Katherine are delicately explored in a very pleasing sort of confused manner. And the teen-speak was PERFECTION.
February 19, 2016
To be quite honest, I wasn't a fan of the plot nor the characters when I was reading. As a Canadian the Toronto setting was familiar, but I wasn't sure what it was that had me binge reading and looking forward to being able to sit back down with the book again. For some reason, Katherine's life became my own. I've got no interest in underground Toronto music scenes of straight edged misfits and ex friend drama, but for some reason I understood. I wasn't even sure if I liked the book, but I kept reading as fast as I could. I read the last page, and I quite literally held it to my chest and whispered, "oh man". It all ties together. Nothing life changing, nothing ground breaking. This book is just good. This book makes you feel good. This book is light and a misfit itself and lovely. Also, the dynamic between Marie and Katherine works out so beautifully by the end.
August 3, 2014
Well crafted first novel effectively captures "turn of the century" mid-town Toronto, and the young people who inhabit. Inner conflicts, outer behaviours, school and those friends one grows out of. And new ones to grow "in to".. A death is the trigger for risky behaviour, testing the waters, self doubt and acting out by a girl who really feels alone. Didn't like the "stock" dysfunctional family (do any YA novels have normal families?) though, it was a little "pat". Our heroine's "vision quest" along the Bloor Street Viaduct and subway line was the highlight for me.
January 15, 2014
When We Were Good is a beautiful debut novel. It reads effortlessly and the author is so in tune with her main character and her environment. It fills a much needed space in young adult novels and doesn't assume anything of itself and what it's saying. It just is this lovely book of a girl going through things for the first time in her teenage years - experiencing real, depressing grief and growing into herself and learning about what she wants. I would heartily recommend this book to anyone.
April 9, 2015
I think I was too old to really like this one. I was also pretty uncomfortable with the way the main character's mental illness was handled, and also how pushy the love interest was towards someone who was clearly struggling with her sexuality. Read my full review at Forever Young Adult.
July 22, 2016
If I could have given When We Were Good a 4.5, I would have. Suzanne Sutherland has arrived on the YA scene with a commendable first novel. The narrative voice is flawless, and the details of various Toronto settings contribute to a book that is well worth a read. I am excited to see where Suzanne will go from here.
February 6, 2016
Date Read: 2013
This is my 1st time reading it.
Rating: 4 stars.
April 2, 2016
Four stars for Marie, who is a great character.
June 15, 2015
Totally sweet coming out, coming of age story-- punk shows, mix tapes, browsing for that perfect compact disc-- Sutherland nailed the early 2000s baby dyke experience.
Displaying 1 - 20 of 20 reviews