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Deconverted: a Journey from Religion to Reason
In this 190-page autobiography, Seth Andrews (host of The Thinking Atheist) recounts his religious upbringing, his years in Christian schools, his decade as a Christian broadcaster, his ultimate apostasy, and how a 30-year believer could one day come to create one of the most popular atheist communities on the internet.
This book helps to give an inside-out look at the protestant Christian culture in the United States, and it will hopefully encourage others as they deal with the difficult questions in their own journeys toward truth.
This book helps to give an inside-out look at the protestant Christian culture in the United States, and it will hopefully encourage others as they deal with the difficult questions in their own journeys toward truth.
197 pages, Kindle Edition
First published December 4, 2012
77 people are currently reading
1524 people want to read
About the author
Seth Andrews
15 books133 followersSeth Andrews is an American author and speaker on the subject of atheism.
He is the creator and host of The Thinking Atheist, and the author of the self-published books Deconverted and Sacred Cows. Prior to his atheist activism, he was a fundamentalist Christian and had a ten-year career as a Christian radio host.
He is the creator and host of The Thinking Atheist, and the author of the self-published books Deconverted and Sacred Cows. Prior to his atheist activism, he was a fundamentalist Christian and had a ten-year career as a Christian radio host.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 125 reviews
February 16, 2013
This could easily be my coming out of the closet, although I'm trying to keep this from showing up on my FB profile. My goodreads profile is public though. It's not that I am ashamed of being non-religious that I've stayed in the closet for so many years, it's because of all the pain this would cause my family. They'd think me bound for eternal flames after all. I'm not even sure I'd have a family, if they knew. I don't live in the same country as them, and haven't for many years. Makes it easier to hide. I do not bother to cover my true colors in Norway, there's no point, I harm no one. Thing is, I don't think my family wants to know. I'm getting married this year and it's not in a church or in front of a priest, although that would have been cheaper. I am curious and read a wide variety of books, many covering evolution and other "heretical" ideas. So although I do not proclaim my disbelief openly around family, I don't truly hide either. I just don't use the "A" word.
It's interesting reading another indoctrinated person's journey to deconversion. For Seth it was 9/11 - how could a benign god possibly let that happen? There were so many ways he could have stopped it. For me it was Jehova's witnesses. I'd been a latent, non-participating Christian for years. They were so insistent, showing up on my doorstep every week - ignoring my claims of being a baptist - and finally demanding I take a stand. When I did I found that I could not only reject Jehova's witnesses take on Christianity. I could not believe any denomination's version of it. You should have seen the look on the Jehova's witnesses when they came round again, expecting me to join their fold and I told them that "yes, I've thought it through - I'm an atheist now".
Learning to think for yourself is much more difficult if you have been brought up religious. I should have drawn my conclusions earlier. The author thought the same about himself. I lost a lot of my faith at the same time I stopped believing in unicorns (also embarrassingly late, in my teens - yes, I was a fanciful child), but I did not dare follow my thoughts through to the end. It took another dozen years and insistent prompting before I did so. Thinking is difficult. Even frightening, sometimes.
I am astonished at what Seth accomplished. He faced his extremely religious community outright and told them what he was, despite risking being ostracized. He went boldly forth and has set and admirable example. He set up a website called "the Thinking Atheist", creating an online community. Well worth reading.
It's interesting reading another indoctrinated person's journey to deconversion. For Seth it was 9/11 - how could a benign god possibly let that happen? There were so many ways he could have stopped it. For me it was Jehova's witnesses. I'd been a latent, non-participating Christian for years. They were so insistent, showing up on my doorstep every week - ignoring my claims of being a baptist - and finally demanding I take a stand. When I did I found that I could not only reject Jehova's witnesses take on Christianity. I could not believe any denomination's version of it. You should have seen the look on the Jehova's witnesses when they came round again, expecting me to join their fold and I told them that "yes, I've thought it through - I'm an atheist now".
Learning to think for yourself is much more difficult if you have been brought up religious. I should have drawn my conclusions earlier. The author thought the same about himself. I lost a lot of my faith at the same time I stopped believing in unicorns (also embarrassingly late, in my teens - yes, I was a fanciful child), but I did not dare follow my thoughts through to the end. It took another dozen years and insistent prompting before I did so. Thinking is difficult. Even frightening, sometimes.
I am astonished at what Seth accomplished. He faced his extremely religious community outright and told them what he was, despite risking being ostracized. He went boldly forth and has set and admirable example. He set up a website called "the Thinking Atheist", creating an online community. Well worth reading.
January 8, 2013
Seth Andrews has written a refreshing and delightful account of his deconversion experience. I hear many deconversion stories, so I look for the angle that is new and actually tells me something different. This book does that. Seth is an excellent writer and communicates both the emotional and intellectual parts of his journey out of religion. I was most intrigued to get an insider's view of the Contemporary Christian Music world CCM. Having personally seen the sex (and drugs) in the gospel music world, I was sure it existed in other areas of religious music as well. Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not against sex, and think our current national policy on drugs is abysmal. I do have problems with people who sing and preach condemnation of others even as they are doing the same or similar things themselves - but that is a bit off topic.
If you or someone you know is struggling with coming out, or is deconverting, this book is a great way to see another person's struggles and solutions. If you listen to The Thinking Atheist Podcast, this book will give a much better understanding of the passionate and compassionate person on the microphone. As the founder and Chairman of the Board of RecoveringfromReligion.org, I am recommending this book to all our members and group leaders.
Dr. Darrel Ray, author of Sex and God: How Religion Distorts Sexuality, and The God Virus.
If you or someone you know is struggling with coming out, or is deconverting, this book is a great way to see another person's struggles and solutions. If you listen to The Thinking Atheist Podcast, this book will give a much better understanding of the passionate and compassionate person on the microphone. As the founder and Chairman of the Board of RecoveringfromReligion.org, I am recommending this book to all our members and group leaders.
Dr. Darrel Ray, author of Sex and God: How Religion Distorts Sexuality, and The God Virus.
April 2, 2013
A well written personal story of moving from being a member in a culture where the answers to all the questions were given to you within the comfortable bubble of faith to the more uncertain bigger world where the answers are not so readily available and must be earned through critical thinking.
I cannot help but admire anyone who makes such a leap....it is incredibly difficult to proclaim yourself as separate in such a fundamental way as world view from all those around you and it is especially difficult when this involves rejecting religious faith as those of the faith feel genuine hurt and worry for you. Ask yourselves if you would be brave enough to do so in your own world? I find it is hard to answer.
Seth paints himself as an everyman which is probably accurate but that isn't to be confused with ignorance or lack of ability...he may not have received advanced degrees in the subject he writes about but he writes more than competently and he has a natural ability to speak and tell stories. This book is evidence of that. Moreover, as you read the story, you'll see what a natural leader he is in building his own community and using his natural talents.
An enjoyable read and one that lets the reader understand the humans behind it -- his family are good people, not abusive zealots and the struggle with acceptance is an interesting and sad one that can be applied to our greater society.
I cannot help but admire anyone who makes such a leap....it is incredibly difficult to proclaim yourself as separate in such a fundamental way as world view from all those around you and it is especially difficult when this involves rejecting religious faith as those of the faith feel genuine hurt and worry for you. Ask yourselves if you would be brave enough to do so in your own world? I find it is hard to answer.
Seth paints himself as an everyman which is probably accurate but that isn't to be confused with ignorance or lack of ability...he may not have received advanced degrees in the subject he writes about but he writes more than competently and he has a natural ability to speak and tell stories. This book is evidence of that. Moreover, as you read the story, you'll see what a natural leader he is in building his own community and using his natural talents.
An enjoyable read and one that lets the reader understand the humans behind it -- his family are good people, not abusive zealots and the struggle with acceptance is an interesting and sad one that can be applied to our greater society.
September 2, 2020
In this book Seth tells his autobiography from his old Christian radio days, to his journey to atheism, and beginning his now-famous podcast.
There's a good bit of counter-apologetics to be found in these pages.
And also a lot of heart.
There's a good bit of counter-apologetics to be found in these pages.
And also a lot of heart.
May 25, 2014
Seth Andrews, although not an author by trade, has pieced together a surprisingly creative and well thought-out composition in ‘De-Converted’, which details his personal transition from a completely devout, bible-loving Christian to full-on non-believing atheist. I found the account of his personal journey out of theism and away from dogma, tremendously interesting as it provides amazing insight into the world of the devout Christian communities of the Deep South where extreme religiosity seems to be the norm; certainly eye-opening for a person who grew up in a largely moderate, non-outwardly religious environment.
This is essentially a biography vis-à-vis religion that tells the story of guy that in his late twenties started noticing inconsistencies in the teachings of his religion that had been ingrained in him from a very young age. He began questioning for the first time, the so-called ‘truths’ that had been imparted on him involuntarily in his childhood and had continued throughout his entire life. As a DJ on a popular Christian radio channel in the 90’s, he was privy to some of the murky realities of an industry which over time began to seem somewhat affected to him, and did not appear to be so much unlike the dubious secular entertainment industry which was positively unscrupulous and not to be trusted.
Once his journey had started, Seth was determined to learn as much as he could about the anti-religion movement that he knew so little about. It was all so new to him; he had never experienced such blatant impertinence toward the very thing that for his entire life had been so revered, not only by him and his family, but also by his entire community. After reading all he could from the so-called new atheists, (Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, Dennett, Barker etc.), and reading the pages of the bible itself, Seth found himself embarrassed by the fact that throughout his entire life, he had not actually taken the time to read its words, and to take them for what they actually were. Encroaching on 40, he found himself at the end of a 18-year marriage, alone; isolated and scared. This was the first time that he had actually taken an objective look at it, and now that he had, he was dumbfounded by what he was seeing. Now more than ever, he was aware of his former ignorance and was becoming ever more aware of his inexorable ‘transcendence’ from religion to atheism.
After ‘coming out’ to family and close friends, Seth found himself at a crossroads; his whole life to this point – not to mention his means for making a living – was founded on religion. To face the truth now (publicly) would mean exposing himself to everyone that knew him, putting himself out there for all to see. He had a decision to make and it wasn’t going to be easy. The result was his first on-stage appearance at an Atheist convention. It was a gathering in Tulsa Oklahoma where he describes the 45 minutes he spent on stage as the “most gratifying of [his] entire life”. He was surrounded “smiling faces” and as he puts it, he had “a feeling of coming home”. The transformation was complete and he has never looked back.
Since that day, Seth Andrews has gone on to develop a website and an on-line radio program for Atheists called ‘The Thinking Atheist’. He now finds himself part of a quickly growing community of humanists and freethinkers, that are unbound by the shackles of religion that he describes as “wonderful, intelligent, enthusiastic, real people.”
Seth Andrews has written a book from the heart, and managed to do it with both humility and candor.
Fantastic!
This is essentially a biography vis-à-vis religion that tells the story of guy that in his late twenties started noticing inconsistencies in the teachings of his religion that had been ingrained in him from a very young age. He began questioning for the first time, the so-called ‘truths’ that had been imparted on him involuntarily in his childhood and had continued throughout his entire life. As a DJ on a popular Christian radio channel in the 90’s, he was privy to some of the murky realities of an industry which over time began to seem somewhat affected to him, and did not appear to be so much unlike the dubious secular entertainment industry which was positively unscrupulous and not to be trusted.
Once his journey had started, Seth was determined to learn as much as he could about the anti-religion movement that he knew so little about. It was all so new to him; he had never experienced such blatant impertinence toward the very thing that for his entire life had been so revered, not only by him and his family, but also by his entire community. After reading all he could from the so-called new atheists, (Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, Dennett, Barker etc.), and reading the pages of the bible itself, Seth found himself embarrassed by the fact that throughout his entire life, he had not actually taken the time to read its words, and to take them for what they actually were. Encroaching on 40, he found himself at the end of a 18-year marriage, alone; isolated and scared. This was the first time that he had actually taken an objective look at it, and now that he had, he was dumbfounded by what he was seeing. Now more than ever, he was aware of his former ignorance and was becoming ever more aware of his inexorable ‘transcendence’ from religion to atheism.
After ‘coming out’ to family and close friends, Seth found himself at a crossroads; his whole life to this point – not to mention his means for making a living – was founded on religion. To face the truth now (publicly) would mean exposing himself to everyone that knew him, putting himself out there for all to see. He had a decision to make and it wasn’t going to be easy. The result was his first on-stage appearance at an Atheist convention. It was a gathering in Tulsa Oklahoma where he describes the 45 minutes he spent on stage as the “most gratifying of [his] entire life”. He was surrounded “smiling faces” and as he puts it, he had “a feeling of coming home”. The transformation was complete and he has never looked back.
Since that day, Seth Andrews has gone on to develop a website and an on-line radio program for Atheists called ‘The Thinking Atheist’. He now finds himself part of a quickly growing community of humanists and freethinkers, that are unbound by the shackles of religion that he describes as “wonderful, intelligent, enthusiastic, real people.”
Seth Andrews has written a book from the heart, and managed to do it with both humility and candor.
Fantastic!
July 10, 2014
Deconverted: A Journey from Religion to Reason is a well-written semi-autobiography by Seth Andrews told with passion and pathos of his life-changing move from theism to atheism.
While not the same in details, my own life mirrors in general the same steps that Seth passed through in shaking off the uselessness of faith and religion in order to embrace reasoning, science and reality. The slowly dawning acknowledgment that a so-called infallible book was instead full of inconsistencies and that there was no sky-daddy to worship and serve; the friction of family still in the clutches of Christianity and the pain my breaking free of those clutches caused; the inexorable movement from ingrained teaching that there IS a god, to the position that there MAY NOT be a god to the realism that there is NO god; the feeling that a weight has been lifted when you stop basing your life on fairy tales and myths. All of these, I believe, are common to most who come to the realization that religious faith is a fallacy.
I have yet to meet anyone who moved from theism to agnosticism to atheism who did not go through a multitude of sometimes agonizing thoughts and emotions, because it is not a case of simply flipping a switch but, as Andrews says in the title, is a journey.
Some of the best parts of this book are at the end where Andrews gives resource after resource for fellow atheists. It’s important for atheists, who are in the minority in the USA and the rest of the world, to know that they are NOT alone in their travels from the darkness of religion to the light of reasoning. I don’t mean to sound like the moderator at some kind of support meeting, but it is important for atheists to know that they are NOT alone in what they have gone through and the feelings they have experienced.
Finally, I want to thank my friends and fellow Goodreads members, Richard and Heather, for gifting me this book on my birthday. It is one I have intended to read for several months and I am grateful that their generosity allowed me to read and enjoy this work.
While not the same in details, my own life mirrors in general the same steps that Seth passed through in shaking off the uselessness of faith and religion in order to embrace reasoning, science and reality. The slowly dawning acknowledgment that a so-called infallible book was instead full of inconsistencies and that there was no sky-daddy to worship and serve; the friction of family still in the clutches of Christianity and the pain my breaking free of those clutches caused; the inexorable movement from ingrained teaching that there IS a god, to the position that there MAY NOT be a god to the realism that there is NO god; the feeling that a weight has been lifted when you stop basing your life on fairy tales and myths. All of these, I believe, are common to most who come to the realization that religious faith is a fallacy.
I have yet to meet anyone who moved from theism to agnosticism to atheism who did not go through a multitude of sometimes agonizing thoughts and emotions, because it is not a case of simply flipping a switch but, as Andrews says in the title, is a journey.
Some of the best parts of this book are at the end where Andrews gives resource after resource for fellow atheists. It’s important for atheists, who are in the minority in the USA and the rest of the world, to know that they are NOT alone in their travels from the darkness of religion to the light of reasoning. I don’t mean to sound like the moderator at some kind of support meeting, but it is important for atheists to know that they are NOT alone in what they have gone through and the feelings they have experienced.
Finally, I want to thank my friends and fellow Goodreads members, Richard and Heather, for gifting me this book on my birthday. It is one I have intended to read for several months and I am grateful that their generosity allowed me to read and enjoy this work.
November 1, 2018
I found Deconverted to be an enjoyable, relatable, and inspiring read. Seth Andrews tells his unique story - from growing up in a religious fundamentalist family in the US bible belt and working as a popular Christian radio host to becoming the host of the most downloaded atheist podcast, The Thinking Atheist.
Seth is a positive person with a great sense of humor and is an excellent communicator and story teller. In this short autobiographical book, he recounts the events which caused him to question the faith he was indoctrinated in to as a youth and practiced and defended most of his life, and follows him along this path to the point where he finally, all-out rejects religion and supernatural beliefs. He outlines his struggles with coming out as an apostate to family, friends, and employers (most of whom were very religious). He uses his knack for storytelling to make his life story interesting and poignant.
I especially enjoyed the last chapter, in which Seth lists twenty common questions and challenges which the religious throw at non-believers in an attempt to prove them wrong or spur debate. The answers are short and to the point and can help one make their point succinctly.
I’m a long-time listener to his podcast and attended his Minneapolis speaking event with the Minnesota Atheists in September where he recounted a few of the stories in the book. It was fun hearing them in person. This a truly inspirational book for someone trying to free themselves from the shackles of religion. Highly recommended.
Seth is a positive person with a great sense of humor and is an excellent communicator and story teller. In this short autobiographical book, he recounts the events which caused him to question the faith he was indoctrinated in to as a youth and practiced and defended most of his life, and follows him along this path to the point where he finally, all-out rejects religion and supernatural beliefs. He outlines his struggles with coming out as an apostate to family, friends, and employers (most of whom were very religious). He uses his knack for storytelling to make his life story interesting and poignant.
I especially enjoyed the last chapter, in which Seth lists twenty common questions and challenges which the religious throw at non-believers in an attempt to prove them wrong or spur debate. The answers are short and to the point and can help one make their point succinctly.
I’m a long-time listener to his podcast and attended his Minneapolis speaking event with the Minnesota Atheists in September where he recounted a few of the stories in the book. It was fun hearing them in person. This a truly inspirational book for someone trying to free themselves from the shackles of religion. Highly recommended.
January 7, 2013
While well written and undoubtedly courageous, I thought this book left a lot to be desired. There's a couple instances in which Andrews talks of being a "professional communicator". He says how much he loves storytelling and that being a broadcaster afforded him ample opportunities to do so. That being said, I felt this story fell kind of flat. The info in this book doesn't seem to go beyond what a Bio Blurb might say on his website or any other 'About' tab. This is an Oklahoma-born guy who was raised by bible scholars, went to Christian schools, and ended up in Christian radio. His first significant crisis of faith was on 9/11 when the planes hit the towers in NYC. From then on things spiraled and he started to "take his head out of his ass", as he put it. What about the backlash from his devout family? Their son not only came out as an atheist, but now runs and maintains a well-known atheist community. He only briefly touches on these things and when he does it just comes across very matter-of-fact and almost blasé. I'm not denying that his personal realizations aren't profound and extremely courageous-- many kudos to him for being so honest and creating a forum for non-believers to feel less alienated. I was just maybe hoping for a bit more depth alongside the quips and snarky anecdotes about why religion is so absurd.
June 28, 2021
Several months ago a good friend who is gay, was raised in a religious household, and was struggling with their their family's acceptance asked me to read a book by this author. The book was "Confessions of a Former Fox News Christian." My friend hoped that I, having been raised outside of the scope of the religious judgement they had, might have some insight. I don't- beyond "you get to be gay, you get to not feel bad about it- have joy and celebration even- with the person you love, and you are not required to follow a belief or religion that doesn't make sense to you regardless of how many angry words come your direction" Not sure that helped my friend much. My dad was an atheist having "left the truth" as he was often told by extended family, and raised me in the cradle of his science classrooms where he taught biology, chemistry, geology, and physics. I went to college and earned among other things a history degree. I also grew up with a dear uncle who was part parent to me who was openly gay, so the author's and my friend's parental conflicts are foreign to me. That book was interesting. The author was a "Ditto Head" in addition to being an evangelical Christian. He said he left Christianity first and THEN left Fox News. That was the surprise to me. He explained the whys and hows in that book. The author was also a former Christian broadcaster with all of the broadcaster training so the book was a good choice as an audio book. I added the author's other books to my TBR and this past week audible put them on sale. It's an interesting read. The pain and anger is palpable. It in no way mirrors my personal experience with evangelical religion, though move the author's experience in time to the 1940s and I suspect my dad's experiences would run the same river of feelings. I grew up with a dad whose worldview was that of the author's current world view, and some extended family that were evangelical Christian of a variety of stripes that varied from Catholic, to Seventh Day Adventist, to several themes of Baptist, to what I think was Pentecostal- it was whatever my violently, mentally ill uncle acquired while in prison not receiving needed mental health care...I have another relative that refers to it as "prison religion". As a kid I found what seemed to be mostly nonsensical rantings about the evils of: pop culture, coffee, Coca-Cola, alcohol, ballet lessons, school dances, earings, eyeshadow, pop music, ham sandwiches, public education, science, women with 'to much authority', and pretty much every book I ever read to be silly or at most obnoxious. I then one sunny Sunday afternoon, found myself shimmying through a window of a minister's office having went to church with someone because they asked me to, having been locked in with furniture in front of the door "until Jesus turned my heart" Climbing through windows in a pencil skirt and heels then walking a mile to my car is not a thing I generally sign up for. I now do not walk into churches unless I have a heathen wingman to ensure escape. As the evangelicals grew louder and more pushy as I grew into adulthood, with long prayers at holiday meals I had cooked, while my dad, husband, and kids squirmed with discomfort, and with door knockers who, returned repeatedly to complain about holiday decorations, refused to leave unless threats of calling the police were invoked, and then began to claim they should have access to my children I began to find them terrifying. As a cradle agnostic I have never lived the anger of betrayal of truth the author feels. I have found evangelism in turns comical, disturbing, and terrifying but it has rarely made me angry. The book is a clear structure of the author's Christian upbringing and adult life, followed by learning of/reading the violence in the Bible, followed by learning about science that was provable and testable and contradicted what he had been taught, to a final rejection of his previous views. There is one moment that as an agnostic who lives among evangelical colleagues and extended family that gave me a moment of "yes ...THIS is irritating". The author went on a binge of reading Dawkins, Hitchens, and other rationalist authors. Mr. Andrew's mother knowing this, bought a book on a contradiction of Dawkins from a Christian perspective, DID NOT READ THE BOOK, and then gave him the book telling him "read this". I REALLY dislike when people do that. "If you are going to read ____ then you MUST read ___ (that they haven't actually read)" ...um ...how about no. The author has a full chapter just giving citations from the Bible of rape and violence committed by God or by people God told to do it and another full chapter on responses to Christian arguments about science and morality. As the cradle agnostic, daughter of a science teacher, I didn't find much new information here but I did find an understanding of the anger and betrayal so many people who have left religious traditions feel that I have often struggled to fully empathize with. My intellectual response to religion is "show me the data/peer reviewed evidence. I don't believe what you believe for the same reason anyone doesn't 'believe' in something, I have not had documented peer reviewed evidence to convince me of its validity." My personal response to most evangelical shouty people is sheer terror- with "If you don't get your foot out of my door I am calling the police, you do not have a "right" to proselytize to me or my kids in my house, and if you touch my kid I will hurt you" If you are leaving or have left an evangelical Christian faith, or probably any fundamentalist religious view, you will probably find this book informative, clarifying, and cathartic. If you are a practicing Christian it will make you very uncomfortable. If you are not evangelical it will make you cringe that others that hold your worldview make the claims they do. If you are evangelical I am guessing it will make you angry that you are being challenged. If you are a lifelong person of no faith you will find it interesting but not life changing or surprising.
January 27, 2020
I've watched some of Seth Andrews' youtube videos so I came into this book familiar with the short version of parts of his deconversion story. I did really enjoy hearing the whole thing in one go with plenty of details. I listened to the audiobook which is great. Seth narrates it himself which gave it a very personal and intimate feel plus he is very easy to listen to. If you are an atheist, questioning religion or just curious about what regular atheists are like (not the angry keyboard warrior kind), I highly recommend.
January 20, 2013
Great book by Seth and his journey from delusion to reason. He not only broke out of religion he became it's nemesis. He goes through his early childhood indoctrination and his Christian radio stent to his final journey as the founder of one of the most popular atheist sites called The Thinking Atheist. Overall great story.
July 11, 2018
I thoroughly enjoyed this book and definitely have the same sentiments. Also, my coming out experience as an atheist is similar in many ways to that of the author. And like the author, I continue to not be afraid to be and show my true self.
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October 7, 2013Atheism is NOT About You
Really, it’s not. It is not an affront to your existence. It is about science. It is about questioning and searching for answers. It is about thinking for oneself.
For the God-themed issue of Zen Dixie, I read three books on atheism. No, these books did not provide me with any life-changing realizations – it was more like, as “they” say, “preaching to the choir.”
Yes, I am an atheist. No, I do not believe in anyone else’s God. And, like I said in the opening paragraph, my atheism is not about anyone else but me.
After reading these books, I feel as though the world needs to be reminded that when someone realizes she is an atheist, it is not an attack on everyone else in the world that believes in God. This is the first striking lesson I learned from reading these books. People, even total strangers, take one’s atheism personally.
Next, I am still the same person you knew the minute before you read the words “I am an atheist.” Yep, still the same brunette with brown eyes, tattoos, and (multiple) degrees, who cares for her friends and volunteers for good causes. This is no different than if you never knew I had a cat.
This is another reminder the world needs after being told someone is an atheist. They are still the same person you liked, loved, and respected before you found out. Yes, you may be concerned that he will not be joining you in the afterlife, but he does not join you for dinner every night either. So, remember, it’s OK. The world will not end if your friend is an atheist.
And now, onto the show…
To start this themed review, I began with Seth Andrews’s Deconverted: A Journey from Religion to Reason.
Seth Andrews is the founder of The Thinking Atheist (TTA) community. You can find TTA at the web site (www.thethinkingatheist.com) and on Facebook. Andrews has a number of volunteers who help with the web site and Facebook page. Before he founded TTA, Andrews led a very different life – he was a Christian radio broadcaster and one of the outspoken faithful.
Andrews likened announcing one’s atheism to “dipping yourself in jet fuel and showing up for a candlelight church service. The crowd is convinced you’re going up in flames, and they’re terrified that you’ll take others with you.”
Deconverted was the story of Andrews’s journey from believer to atheist. He chronicled the doubt and questioning, the frustration, and ultimately his desire to “expose the flaws in the very teachings I once held so dear.”
He admitted to writing it in what he calls “plain English,” making the tone and language very accessible. Andrews also provided some insight into what many Americans have experienced when “coming out” as an atheist. He questioned the indoctrination of children into religion before they are mature enough to make the decision on their own. He pointed out the misogyny in the bible as well as the contradictions from book to book. All of these were the little things that planted the seeds of doubt and pushed Andrews to seriously consider the role religion played in his life and in society as a whole.
All in all, Andrews offered the following advice both in Deconverted and at The Thinking Atheist: Assume nothing. Question everything. Challenge the Opposition. And start thinking.
From Deconverted, I picked up Richard Dawkins’s The God Delusion.
Richard Dawkins came to atheism with the mind of science. Being a historian rather than a scientist, I admit that I found Dawkins to be somewhat dry in places. The God Delusion was an excellent book – and one I highly recommend – but, if you are like me, do not expect it to be a quick read.
Dawkins, much like Andrews, highlighted the many inconsistencies of the world’s religions. (Yes, I know that Dawkins wrote The God Delusion before Andrews wrote Deconverted, but I read Dawkins after Andrews – so, for me, this is an accurate statement.) He dove into the roots of religions and tackled the constant claim that “Hitler was an atheist.” (spoiler alert – he wasn’t)
Dawkins is one of the most widely read published atheists. Both believers and atheists read these books, which can be seen on the Amazon reviews. As I am sure you would expect, the reviews were either strongly for or against Dawkins’s book. The God Delusion is not geared toward converting those strongly attached to their faith, but it certainly reminds those questioning that they are not alone.
One of the parts that sticks with me most from Dawkins’s book is the “New Ten Commandments” he found on the ebonmusings.org web site. He calls them an expression of consensual ethics. Here are a few to ponder:
In all things, strive to cause no harm.
Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.
Always seek to be learning something new.
Question everything.
To these he added, along with three others, “Value the future on a timescale longer than your own.”
These commandments helped lead me to the third book, Stephen Batchelor’s Confession of a Buddhist Atheist.
I will admit, out of the three books this was the one I was most looking forward to reading. After being raised Catholic, I had more than a passing fancy for Buddhism. I read a lot and appreciated even more the ideals and guides for living that Buddhism provides.
Stephen Batchelor left his home in England and wound up in India, studying Buddhism where the exiled Dalai Lama resided. He became a monk and began working on translations of Buddhist texts into English. The more he learned, the more he taught others, especially westerners who were flocking to Buddhism in droves in the late 1960s.
Even before he made the decision to de-robe, Batchelor questioned the organization of Buddhism. He researched and read the ancient texts of Siddattha Gotama and learned that the way the Buddha taught was unlike the religion Buddhism had evolved into. As he explained, he wrote Confession of a Buddhist Atheist “from the perspective of a committed layperson who seeks to lead a life that embodies Buddhist values within the context of secularism and modernity.”
Batchelor was heavier on the Buddhism and lighter on the atheism, but that is not as bad a thing as I had originally thought. Upon finishing the book, I was somewhat disappointed that he devoted so much of the narrative to the history of Buddhism. After digesting the work for a day and pondering the ideas, I can see how the reader would need a greater understanding of the Buddha as Batchelor “knew” him.
Because of this, it is easier to not only grasp Batchelor’s de-robing, but to understand how and why he could not continue as a monk. It is also easier to understand that the Four Noble Truths and the eightfold path are not only tools of becoming enlightened, but are ways to creating a more civilized world and dealing with the pain and suffering of life.
With Buddhism, though, it is easier to grasp the transition from Buddhist monk to Atheist as early Buddhism is similar to the Ten Commandments Dawkins found.
There are some interesting observations to be made from these three books. On the surface, both Andrews and Batchelor were part of their respective clergy. Dawkins and Batchelor are both British. When broken down, each likely had similar paths of thinking that are quite compatible with each other.
This review (as a combination review/essay) originally appeared at Zen Dixie, http://www.zendixie.com/read.html
Really, it’s not. It is not an affront to your existence. It is about science. It is about questioning and searching for answers. It is about thinking for oneself.
For the God-themed issue of Zen Dixie, I read three books on atheism. No, these books did not provide me with any life-changing realizations – it was more like, as “they” say, “preaching to the choir.”
Yes, I am an atheist. No, I do not believe in anyone else’s God. And, like I said in the opening paragraph, my atheism is not about anyone else but me.
After reading these books, I feel as though the world needs to be reminded that when someone realizes she is an atheist, it is not an attack on everyone else in the world that believes in God. This is the first striking lesson I learned from reading these books. People, even total strangers, take one’s atheism personally.
Next, I am still the same person you knew the minute before you read the words “I am an atheist.” Yep, still the same brunette with brown eyes, tattoos, and (multiple) degrees, who cares for her friends and volunteers for good causes. This is no different than if you never knew I had a cat.
This is another reminder the world needs after being told someone is an atheist. They are still the same person you liked, loved, and respected before you found out. Yes, you may be concerned that he will not be joining you in the afterlife, but he does not join you for dinner every night either. So, remember, it’s OK. The world will not end if your friend is an atheist.
And now, onto the show…
To start this themed review, I began with Seth Andrews’s Deconverted: A Journey from Religion to Reason.
Seth Andrews is the founder of The Thinking Atheist (TTA) community. You can find TTA at the web site (www.thethinkingatheist.com) and on Facebook. Andrews has a number of volunteers who help with the web site and Facebook page. Before he founded TTA, Andrews led a very different life – he was a Christian radio broadcaster and one of the outspoken faithful.
Andrews likened announcing one’s atheism to “dipping yourself in jet fuel and showing up for a candlelight church service. The crowd is convinced you’re going up in flames, and they’re terrified that you’ll take others with you.”
Deconverted was the story of Andrews’s journey from believer to atheist. He chronicled the doubt and questioning, the frustration, and ultimately his desire to “expose the flaws in the very teachings I once held so dear.”
He admitted to writing it in what he calls “plain English,” making the tone and language very accessible. Andrews also provided some insight into what many Americans have experienced when “coming out” as an atheist. He questioned the indoctrination of children into religion before they are mature enough to make the decision on their own. He pointed out the misogyny in the bible as well as the contradictions from book to book. All of these were the little things that planted the seeds of doubt and pushed Andrews to seriously consider the role religion played in his life and in society as a whole.
All in all, Andrews offered the following advice both in Deconverted and at The Thinking Atheist: Assume nothing. Question everything. Challenge the Opposition. And start thinking.
From Deconverted, I picked up Richard Dawkins’s The God Delusion.
Richard Dawkins came to atheism with the mind of science. Being a historian rather than a scientist, I admit that I found Dawkins to be somewhat dry in places. The God Delusion was an excellent book – and one I highly recommend – but, if you are like me, do not expect it to be a quick read.
Dawkins, much like Andrews, highlighted the many inconsistencies of the world’s religions. (Yes, I know that Dawkins wrote The God Delusion before Andrews wrote Deconverted, but I read Dawkins after Andrews – so, for me, this is an accurate statement.) He dove into the roots of religions and tackled the constant claim that “Hitler was an atheist.” (spoiler alert – he wasn’t)
Dawkins is one of the most widely read published atheists. Both believers and atheists read these books, which can be seen on the Amazon reviews. As I am sure you would expect, the reviews were either strongly for or against Dawkins’s book. The God Delusion is not geared toward converting those strongly attached to their faith, but it certainly reminds those questioning that they are not alone.
One of the parts that sticks with me most from Dawkins’s book is the “New Ten Commandments” he found on the ebonmusings.org web site. He calls them an expression of consensual ethics. Here are a few to ponder:
In all things, strive to cause no harm.
Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.
Always seek to be learning something new.
Question everything.
To these he added, along with three others, “Value the future on a timescale longer than your own.”
These commandments helped lead me to the third book, Stephen Batchelor’s Confession of a Buddhist Atheist.
I will admit, out of the three books this was the one I was most looking forward to reading. After being raised Catholic, I had more than a passing fancy for Buddhism. I read a lot and appreciated even more the ideals and guides for living that Buddhism provides.
Stephen Batchelor left his home in England and wound up in India, studying Buddhism where the exiled Dalai Lama resided. He became a monk and began working on translations of Buddhist texts into English. The more he learned, the more he taught others, especially westerners who were flocking to Buddhism in droves in the late 1960s.
Even before he made the decision to de-robe, Batchelor questioned the organization of Buddhism. He researched and read the ancient texts of Siddattha Gotama and learned that the way the Buddha taught was unlike the religion Buddhism had evolved into. As he explained, he wrote Confession of a Buddhist Atheist “from the perspective of a committed layperson who seeks to lead a life that embodies Buddhist values within the context of secularism and modernity.”
Batchelor was heavier on the Buddhism and lighter on the atheism, but that is not as bad a thing as I had originally thought. Upon finishing the book, I was somewhat disappointed that he devoted so much of the narrative to the history of Buddhism. After digesting the work for a day and pondering the ideas, I can see how the reader would need a greater understanding of the Buddha as Batchelor “knew” him.
Because of this, it is easier to not only grasp Batchelor’s de-robing, but to understand how and why he could not continue as a monk. It is also easier to understand that the Four Noble Truths and the eightfold path are not only tools of becoming enlightened, but are ways to creating a more civilized world and dealing with the pain and suffering of life.
With Buddhism, though, it is easier to grasp the transition from Buddhist monk to Atheist as early Buddhism is similar to the Ten Commandments Dawkins found.
There are some interesting observations to be made from these three books. On the surface, both Andrews and Batchelor were part of their respective clergy. Dawkins and Batchelor are both British. When broken down, each likely had similar paths of thinking that are quite compatible with each other.
This review (as a combination review/essay) originally appeared at Zen Dixie, http://www.zendixie.com/read.html
February 20, 2020
Seth is a just an all around cool and fair guy. I've listened to him for a while now on his podcast and listening to his book was helpful to connect a lot of dots.
I cannot exclaim enough how much I wish Christians would listen to this book. And no, it's not to prove a damn point or that I am right and they are wrong. Since leaving the faith I have had so many people make false assumptions about me and why I left. I want them to listen to this book so that they can relate to an apostate if/when someone in their church leaves the faith. My story is not like Seth's story but the feelings and over all theme are nearly identical.
A lot of Christians who refuse to look outside the christian box can gain a lot of insight through this very gracious and honest book as to why people leave the faith or refuse to join. Want to know why people are leaving? Stop assuming it's because of pride or we are deceived or we just want to sin. That's shallow, nearly unanimously untrue and stinks of a conditioned response lacking empathy and understanding.
His plea for reasoning and common sense between Christians and atheist was refreshing. He's not anti-Christian be he is anti anti-science.
If you're an atheist, very little in this book will be new to you but it's good to still connect with other atheists in our theistic dominated world.
As a Bible nerd I did disagree with a couple of things that he claimed were contradictions in the bible. Fortunately this is a very brief section of the book but some of the contradictions he mentions are easily explained historically and within fair reason. No doubt all the ones he mentions are problematic but not outright contradictions.
I cannot exclaim enough how much I wish Christians would listen to this book. And no, it's not to prove a damn point or that I am right and they are wrong. Since leaving the faith I have had so many people make false assumptions about me and why I left. I want them to listen to this book so that they can relate to an apostate if/when someone in their church leaves the faith. My story is not like Seth's story but the feelings and over all theme are nearly identical.
A lot of Christians who refuse to look outside the christian box can gain a lot of insight through this very gracious and honest book as to why people leave the faith or refuse to join. Want to know why people are leaving? Stop assuming it's because of pride or we are deceived or we just want to sin. That's shallow, nearly unanimously untrue and stinks of a conditioned response lacking empathy and understanding.
His plea for reasoning and common sense between Christians and atheist was refreshing. He's not anti-Christian be he is anti anti-science.
If you're an atheist, very little in this book will be new to you but it's good to still connect with other atheists in our theistic dominated world.
As a Bible nerd I did disagree with a couple of things that he claimed were contradictions in the bible. Fortunately this is a very brief section of the book but some of the contradictions he mentions are easily explained historically and within fair reason. No doubt all the ones he mentions are problematic but not outright contradictions.
December 25, 2019
As an atheist who was never really into religion, it was a great account to learn about an atheist who was once knee-deep in religion for the majority of his life. He took the risks of losing his job to pursue his quest for debunking religion, which is admirable. Check out his videos on the Thinking Atheist, they are often hilarious yet insightful. Currently, I am surrounded with very religious people who sometimes do not use reason at all, and is often frustrating being friends with them, wish I could get them to read this.
July 9, 2019
This story hit close to home. I think Seth's story is a bit more extreme than my own....but I could relate at almost every point of the story. After reading this, I'd love to sit down with Seth and have a beer.
This is a great story that should help people struggling to understand why they hang on to religion finally let go.
This is a great story that should help people struggling to understand why they hang on to religion finally let go.
July 21, 2020
Humorous, warm and thought-provoking
I loved this book every bit as much as I enjoy the videos, speeches and podcasts from the Thinking Atheist. Seth’s story of coming out of religion is full of heart and humor.
What I loved the most was his honesty about the pitfalls that can await us all as we emerge into the light of reason. That is to say, the angry Atheist stage, the de-humanization of other non-believers and some believers. I also find Street Epistemology fascinating.
Hearing the story in Seth’s own voice is comforting. If you have the opportunity, I encourage you to get the option of Audible narration. The organization is a little different and some words are added or edited, but it only adds to the story. Nothing is lost and anyone can stand to gain from this story, regardless of where they stand in the questioning journey.
I loved this book every bit as much as I enjoy the videos, speeches and podcasts from the Thinking Atheist. Seth’s story of coming out of religion is full of heart and humor.
What I loved the most was his honesty about the pitfalls that can await us all as we emerge into the light of reason. That is to say, the angry Atheist stage, the de-humanization of other non-believers and some believers. I also find Street Epistemology fascinating.
Hearing the story in Seth’s own voice is comforting. If you have the opportunity, I encourage you to get the option of Audible narration. The organization is a little different and some words are added or edited, but it only adds to the story. Nothing is lost and anyone can stand to gain from this story, regardless of where they stand in the questioning journey.
May 23, 2023
Deconverted: A Journey from Religion to Reason (2013) Seth Andrews is a great memoir. Andrews shares his story of growing up in the middle-American Protestant / Evangelical belief bubble, where Noah's Ark was real and evolution false, and describes how his received beliefs were shattered by the problem of evil and the weight of contrary evidence.
Some excellent books to read along with this one are:
* Faith No More: Why People Reject Religion (2011)
* Caught in The Pulpit: Leaving Belief Behind (2015)
* Unbelievable (2015)
While I thoroughly enjoy the debunking of religion by the now-classic Four Horsemen (Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, Harris) I enjoy it perhaps even more coming from folks who got well into adulthood before somehow overcoming their childhood religious brainwashing.
Apart from biographical details particular to Andrews, nothing in this book should surprise the well-read atheist very much. Andrews covers what should be familiar ground to any educated person as he lists off some standard religious talking points and refutes them. As the book is brief, he necessarily leaves a lot of ammunition on the table. For example he doesn't mention what I've come to view lately as perhaps the most devastating argument against religion: the very existence of science. (I offloaded that to a follow-up comment to keep this review under the word limit.)
****
I was struck by Andrews' recounting of the problem of evil. He mentions the tragic early death of Rich Mullins and the September 11, 2001 Islamic terror attacks. Andrews mentions how he and other Christians reacted to these tragedies in the familiar way, with shock, grief, dismay, distress, and even feeling wronged by God. But these typically human reactions don't make sense in light of many Christian's professed beliefs.
Consider, if you had a loved one who went away for a year, and who won a Mega Millions lottery jackpot, how would you react? You might miss your loved one, but you probably wouldn't grieve. You'd know the separation is only temporary, you'd know they are still alive, you'd be confident you'll see them again soon, and meanwhile they collected a fortune, which is probably a good thing.
While there are thousands of varieties of Christianity, disagreeing on almost every point of doctrine, many claim to believe in an afterlife which is infinitely better than winning a lottery jackpot. To anyone who really believes that, death is no more than a temporary separation, and isn't a tragedy in any sense. Christians should be eager to die as soon as possible (rather like the Heaven's Gate cultists), to get to that vastly superior afterlife without delay. Yet find me one Christian who behaves as if that is true when a loved one dies, or when terrorists fly airliners into the World Trade Center. Most Christians react to death the same way that atheists do. They cry, they grieve, they don't act like God did anybody a favor. And to the best of their ability, they tend to avoid dying.
This incongruous response to tragedy is so normal that almost nobody seems to question it, which I find rather odd. Some Christians, like Andrews, even find their faith wavering in response to tragedy, as if the promise of that better afterlife was never real to begin with. As if the purpose of this life was not to get to heaven, but to extend this earthly punishment as long as possible.
I suspect that the normal human emotional response to death is the emotional brain's refusal to believe religion's denial of death. The emotional brain is not fooled by religious bunkum: it knows that death is final, your loved one is gone forever, and you'll never interact with them again as you did while they were alive. The speaking part of the brain can chant its religious lies as much as it wants, but it can never change reality as the emotional brain understands it.
****
I found a factual claim to disagree with:
1. When Andrews debunks the Genesis flood narrative, he asks rhetorically:
But even if the flood waters would have frozen, they wouldn't have frozen to any great depth, just as we see on the Arctic Ocean today. The floating Artic ice cap is at most only a few meters thick, because of the peculiar properties of water. Ice is one of the few substances that expands when it freezes, so the ice floats on the surface, and insulates the water below. Water also has an immense heat capacity, so you have to remove a lot of heat to freeze water. In areas where warm ocean currents flow from the tropics toward the poles, the ocean can remain ice-free even when the air temperature is frigid. If Noah's Flood had actually occurred, the violent mixing of all that water would probably act against freezing.
To get really thick ice floating on water you generally need the ice to form first on land, and flow down to the ocean as a glacier and out onto the ocean as ice shelf. If the ice breaks off from the glacier it forms icebergs.
Perhaps a more salient question about ice and the Flood is how the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps would have avoided floating off when submerged under kilometers of water. Antartica today is one of the world's driest deserts, so ice builds up there very slowly. The thick ice cap we see today could not have re-formed in just the 4000 years since the Flood would have destroyed it. Scientists in fact drill deep cores from the ice and count the annual layers, one by one, directly measuring the ages of the ice layers all the way down. The oldest ice recovered from Antarctica is around 800,000 years old. That's an eyeblink compared to the 4.54 billion year age of the Earth but still many times greater than Flood chronology would allow.
****
Andrews laments the flame warring in the reader comments on his The Thinking Agheist site. He doesn't like that some atheists refer to religious people as "religitards." While I'd agree that the coarsening of discourse tends not to change anyone's mind, the coarseness started on the religious side. The bible for example routinely impugns "unbelievers" as morally depraved fools. It would be nice if all atheists were stoical enough to obey the teaching of Jesus that almost all Christians reject, namely to respond with kindness when others hurl insults at you.
Playing the insult card is what people tend to do when they run out of facts. Accordingly, the largely fact-free Donald Trump is quick with the insult, much to the delight of his base of braying deplorables. Given that atheists literally have all the facts of science on their side (and even the very existence of science, see my comment below), there should be no need to resort to lazy insults in place of facts. But facts require work - a person has to read hundreds of books to build a strong fact game. Most people save work by learning just what they need to, and one does not have to learn much to recognize that religions are bunk. Thus the typical atheist doesn't need to do the extra work to master the factual debunking of additional theistic talking points that weren't convincing to that atheist in the first place. Atheism is in this sense overdetermined.
There's also the fact that 100% of religious apologists expose themselves as liars at one point or another, and liars reliably trigger emotions of disgust in people who recognize their lies. It takes a large amount of composure (stoicism) to avoid giving away that disgust when a liar triggers it in you. It is no coincidence that almost every moral code invented by humans at least pays lip service to honesty as a virtue, and counts the telling of falsehoods as a vice. This is ironic for religious morality, given that religions are based on falsehoods, yet demand truth-telling from their marks at least within narrow domains.
One route to civility is to slow down an exchange. If you find yourself getting heated when you type a reply, don't send it right away. Save it in a text editor and read it again the next day. You might find that all the insults and profanities you included are not helping your case. Edit out your Tourette's and send the sober version.
Some excellent books to read along with this one are:
* Faith No More: Why People Reject Religion (2011)
* Caught in The Pulpit: Leaving Belief Behind (2015)
* Unbelievable (2015)
While I thoroughly enjoy the debunking of religion by the now-classic Four Horsemen (Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, Harris) I enjoy it perhaps even more coming from folks who got well into adulthood before somehow overcoming their childhood religious brainwashing.
Apart from biographical details particular to Andrews, nothing in this book should surprise the well-read atheist very much. Andrews covers what should be familiar ground to any educated person as he lists off some standard religious talking points and refutes them. As the book is brief, he necessarily leaves a lot of ammunition on the table. For example he doesn't mention what I've come to view lately as perhaps the most devastating argument against religion: the very existence of science. (I offloaded that to a follow-up comment to keep this review under the word limit.)
****
I was struck by Andrews' recounting of the problem of evil. He mentions the tragic early death of Rich Mullins and the September 11, 2001 Islamic terror attacks. Andrews mentions how he and other Christians reacted to these tragedies in the familiar way, with shock, grief, dismay, distress, and even feeling wronged by God. But these typically human reactions don't make sense in light of many Christian's professed beliefs.
Consider, if you had a loved one who went away for a year, and who won a Mega Millions lottery jackpot, how would you react? You might miss your loved one, but you probably wouldn't grieve. You'd know the separation is only temporary, you'd know they are still alive, you'd be confident you'll see them again soon, and meanwhile they collected a fortune, which is probably a good thing.
While there are thousands of varieties of Christianity, disagreeing on almost every point of doctrine, many claim to believe in an afterlife which is infinitely better than winning a lottery jackpot. To anyone who really believes that, death is no more than a temporary separation, and isn't a tragedy in any sense. Christians should be eager to die as soon as possible (rather like the Heaven's Gate cultists), to get to that vastly superior afterlife without delay. Yet find me one Christian who behaves as if that is true when a loved one dies, or when terrorists fly airliners into the World Trade Center. Most Christians react to death the same way that atheists do. They cry, they grieve, they don't act like God did anybody a favor. And to the best of their ability, they tend to avoid dying.
This incongruous response to tragedy is so normal that almost nobody seems to question it, which I find rather odd. Some Christians, like Andrews, even find their faith wavering in response to tragedy, as if the promise of that better afterlife was never real to begin with. As if the purpose of this life was not to get to heaven, but to extend this earthly punishment as long as possible.
I suspect that the normal human emotional response to death is the emotional brain's refusal to believe religion's denial of death. The emotional brain is not fooled by religious bunkum: it knows that death is final, your loved one is gone forever, and you'll never interact with them again as you did while they were alive. The speaking part of the brain can chant its religious lies as much as it wants, but it can never change reality as the emotional brain understands it.
****
I found a factual claim to disagree with:
1. When Andrews debunks the Genesis flood narrative, he asks rhetorically:
"Wouldn’t flood waters covering the peak of Everest have simply frozen?"The answer is no: in the unlikely event that the Flood myth were true, and the sea level rose to overtop Mount Everest, the ocean would push the entire atmosphere up some 8800m, and the ocean's surface would be at the new sea level. Thus the base of the atmosphere would be similar to the base of the atmosphere at today's sea level, not thin and cold like at the top of Mount Everest today. It would probably be more like being on the coast of China at the same latitude. Of course the violent disruption resulting from moving so much water would make the weather quite unpredictable, so it wouldn't be exactly like relaxing on a normal beach today. But it probably wouldn't be cold for the latitude like the peak of Everest today.
But even if the flood waters would have frozen, they wouldn't have frozen to any great depth, just as we see on the Arctic Ocean today. The floating Artic ice cap is at most only a few meters thick, because of the peculiar properties of water. Ice is one of the few substances that expands when it freezes, so the ice floats on the surface, and insulates the water below. Water also has an immense heat capacity, so you have to remove a lot of heat to freeze water. In areas where warm ocean currents flow from the tropics toward the poles, the ocean can remain ice-free even when the air temperature is frigid. If Noah's Flood had actually occurred, the violent mixing of all that water would probably act against freezing.
To get really thick ice floating on water you generally need the ice to form first on land, and flow down to the ocean as a glacier and out onto the ocean as ice shelf. If the ice breaks off from the glacier it forms icebergs.
Perhaps a more salient question about ice and the Flood is how the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps would have avoided floating off when submerged under kilometers of water. Antartica today is one of the world's driest deserts, so ice builds up there very slowly. The thick ice cap we see today could not have re-formed in just the 4000 years since the Flood would have destroyed it. Scientists in fact drill deep cores from the ice and count the annual layers, one by one, directly measuring the ages of the ice layers all the way down. The oldest ice recovered from Antarctica is around 800,000 years old. That's an eyeblink compared to the 4.54 billion year age of the Earth but still many times greater than Flood chronology would allow.
****
Andrews laments the flame warring in the reader comments on his The Thinking Agheist site. He doesn't like that some atheists refer to religious people as "religitards." While I'd agree that the coarsening of discourse tends not to change anyone's mind, the coarseness started on the religious side. The bible for example routinely impugns "unbelievers" as morally depraved fools. It would be nice if all atheists were stoical enough to obey the teaching of Jesus that almost all Christians reject, namely to respond with kindness when others hurl insults at you.
Playing the insult card is what people tend to do when they run out of facts. Accordingly, the largely fact-free Donald Trump is quick with the insult, much to the delight of his base of braying deplorables. Given that atheists literally have all the facts of science on their side (and even the very existence of science, see my comment below), there should be no need to resort to lazy insults in place of facts. But facts require work - a person has to read hundreds of books to build a strong fact game. Most people save work by learning just what they need to, and one does not have to learn much to recognize that religions are bunk. Thus the typical atheist doesn't need to do the extra work to master the factual debunking of additional theistic talking points that weren't convincing to that atheist in the first place. Atheism is in this sense overdetermined.
There's also the fact that 100% of religious apologists expose themselves as liars at one point or another, and liars reliably trigger emotions of disgust in people who recognize their lies. It takes a large amount of composure (stoicism) to avoid giving away that disgust when a liar triggers it in you. It is no coincidence that almost every moral code invented by humans at least pays lip service to honesty as a virtue, and counts the telling of falsehoods as a vice. This is ironic for religious morality, given that religions are based on falsehoods, yet demand truth-telling from their marks at least within narrow domains.
One route to civility is to slow down an exchange. If you find yourself getting heated when you type a reply, don't send it right away. Save it in a text editor and read it again the next day. You might find that all the insults and profanities you included are not helping your case. Edit out your Tourette's and send the sober version.
June 2, 2024
A FORMER CHRISTIAN RADIO HOST RECOUNTS HIS JOURNEY AWAY FROM CHRISTIANITY
Author Seth Andrews wrote in the Introduction to this 2013 book, “‘You were never really saved to begin with.’ I hear this charge almost weekly… A passionate Christian reads my story and exclaims that … I obviously wasn’t ever a true believer… My religious upbringing, my salvation prayer, my baptism, by Bible-based education, my years as a Christian broadcaster and my ultimate rejection of it are null and void, because I had been a counterfeit. Or perhaps I HAD once truly believed, but nearing my 40s, I had lost my way… I was neck-deep in the throes of a midlife crisis… Living in this middle-aged skin, I can personally attest that there’s nothing sexy about turning your life upside down at a time when some are considering early retirement, And … this particular ‘phase’ isn’t simply to be laughed off, brushed off or ignored.”
He continues, “now that I’m free, I’ve made it a life mission to expose the flaws in the very teachings I once held so dear. For that reason, this book… focuses heavily on Christianity… This book isn’t a sensational exposé reeking of dirty laundry… I do claim my own right to examine and openly challenge the superstitions thrust upon me from birth, and I offer the sincere assertion that my end-goal is simply to find the truth.”
He recalls, “As an impressionable young kid reared by theologian parents, I was already primed to receive these wild [End Times/Rapture/Tribulation] scenarios as truth… So you can imagine my alarm as ‘A Thief in the night’ (and the sequel films shown to us in succession) depicted an oppressive, military-style round-up of the populace to be permanently tattooed with the number of the beast, 666…When the credits rolled on [the movie] and the lights came up, the school chaplain gave an invitation… A mass of teary-eyed teenagers rushed the altar, desperate to escape their impending doom, crying out for God to save them before it was too late. The memory sickens me… These films … didn’t provide any proofs of God’s existence or the accuracy of scripture… Instead, they employed shock and awe, blood and barbarism… these films… did great damage to thousands of young people programmed to feel inadequate, unworthy, vulnerable, persecuted and afraid of the future.” (Pg. 21-22)
He points out, “Tragedy and scandal marked the headlines inside the CCM [Contemporary Christian Music] world every few years, and the faithful would scramble to make sense of it all… In 1986, Scott Douglas, lead vocalist for the Christian band WhiteHeart was… arrested for statutory rape, ultimately doing prison time… CCM had a hugely popular Christian comedian, Mike Warnke… before becoming exposed as a complete fraud in a 1991 cornerstone Magazine article. In ’94, Christian superstar Michael English admitted an affair with Marabeth Jordan (vocalist in another CCM groups, ‘First Call’)… in 1995, Christian icon… Sandi Patty admitted an adulterous relationship… Christian music’s fresh-faced poster child, Amy Grant, announced in 1999 that she was divorcing 17-year husband, Gary Chapman… her marriage to [country singer Vince] Gill the following year came as little surprise… Christian artists Jennifer Knapp and Ray Boltz came out as homosexuals… It was painful to watch my profession and the lives of those involved rocked to the core.” (Pg. 42-43)
He recounts, “In 1999, KXOJ fired me. After a decade behind the microphone… they sent me packing with a month’s pay and a box filled with my personal effects. I left humiliated. And I probably deserved it…. I wasn’t a total jerk, but I did have a tendency to be caustic and impatient with those not on my page. I also struggled with burnout and cynicism… When the interview microphone was off, many artists admitted their own disillusionment, their MINISTRIES soured by all of the publicity stunts… the sheer commerce of it all. Christian music was just another sales niche… I hobbled along for nine months as a freelance producer before getting a second chance for … a Christian Hit Radio designed to dig into KXOJ’s significant market share… my religious convictions had been muted by years of dissatisfaction… I’d become accustomed to doubt, my escapable companion…. I didn’t attend church unless invited on a special occasion. I rarely cracked a bible. I didn’t pray before meals or bedtime… it didn’t take a rocket scientist to see the cause-and-effect physical laws of the real world consistently trumping the explanations and predictions of zealous pastors and their wide-eyed sheep… I still believe in God. But most church practices and teachings had started to feel pretty silly…” (Pg. 52-54)
But then after the 9/11 terrorist attacks: “I found it ridiculous to pray for divine protection as thousands laid torn to pieces amid the twisted steel and burning jet fuel. Any benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent deity could have easily prevented the fires of terror from ever being lit. Did it not occur to God to invalidate some passports?... God could’ve locked all nineteen terrorists in a monster traffic jam and busted the whole operation. Yet God was a non-participant. Invisible… And this was where Christian evangelists Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and their ilk gave their own astounding (and wildly offensive) explanation. God did not … prevent the horror of September 11th because … America had allowed the proliferation of abortion clinics and homosexuals.” (Pg. 58)
He admits, “Compounding this … was the very real fact that my personal life was in shambles, and I was on the final leg of an 18-year marriage… It is the time of my life of which I am least proud, as I was disconnected, unpleasant and completely uninterested in reconciliation. While my wife sought (Christian) counseling and potential recovery of the union, I… [was] already (mentally) packing my bags. And even though this was the same time period where I felt tremendous dissatisfaction with my once-cherished religion, I cannot blame the dissolution of our marriage on religious issues. The subject of God certainly added fuel to the fire, but the spark of division had ignited years before. Fortunately, the divorce was amicable…” (Pg. 117)
He explains, “One by-product of the previous year’s quest for answers was the small mountain of notes, emails, reference materials, Bible verses and personal journal entries I had compiled in my quest for information. By early 2009 I’d run the apologetics gauntlet and emerged with a pretty good idea of where the major traps were.” (Pg. 120) He continues, “my mission became to organize and ultimately translate the most digestible arguments against my former religion into a navigable website and professionally-produced videos, making those elements compelling, fun and relatable. Admittedly, it would be a relatively shallow dip in the vast waters of counter-apologetics.” (Pg. 123)
He notes, “I’m often chided by the religious (and some atheists) for the satirical and often mocking tone of [my] videos… and I reply that the mockery of religion is, for me, therapeutic… the superstitions that used to frighten and control me are now reduced to mere punchlines, and I find the skewering of such sacred cows to be tremendously gratifying. I think mockery has its place and can be useful to highlight the insanity of it all. After all, the stories posited as truth by scripture aren’t made to LOOK ridiculous. They ARE ridiculous.” (Pg. 152)
He concludes, “It has been a long, heartbreaking, exhilarating, enlightening and awe-inspiring journey. I don’t know how The Thinking Atheist community will evolve in the next few years, but I’m tremendously grateful to be a part of it, to see it grow, and to witness firsthand the support and encouragement it has given to others… I have found the evidence-based philosophy for living satisfying, empowering and freeing. The fog of superstitious thinking has lifted, and I have a breathtaking view of a better world.” (Pg. 182)
This book will be of keen interest to Atheists, Skeptics and other Freethinkers.
Author Seth Andrews wrote in the Introduction to this 2013 book, “‘You were never really saved to begin with.’ I hear this charge almost weekly… A passionate Christian reads my story and exclaims that … I obviously wasn’t ever a true believer… My religious upbringing, my salvation prayer, my baptism, by Bible-based education, my years as a Christian broadcaster and my ultimate rejection of it are null and void, because I had been a counterfeit. Or perhaps I HAD once truly believed, but nearing my 40s, I had lost my way… I was neck-deep in the throes of a midlife crisis… Living in this middle-aged skin, I can personally attest that there’s nothing sexy about turning your life upside down at a time when some are considering early retirement, And … this particular ‘phase’ isn’t simply to be laughed off, brushed off or ignored.”
He continues, “now that I’m free, I’ve made it a life mission to expose the flaws in the very teachings I once held so dear. For that reason, this book… focuses heavily on Christianity… This book isn’t a sensational exposé reeking of dirty laundry… I do claim my own right to examine and openly challenge the superstitions thrust upon me from birth, and I offer the sincere assertion that my end-goal is simply to find the truth.”
He recalls, “As an impressionable young kid reared by theologian parents, I was already primed to receive these wild [End Times/Rapture/Tribulation] scenarios as truth… So you can imagine my alarm as ‘A Thief in the night’ (and the sequel films shown to us in succession) depicted an oppressive, military-style round-up of the populace to be permanently tattooed with the number of the beast, 666…When the credits rolled on [the movie] and the lights came up, the school chaplain gave an invitation… A mass of teary-eyed teenagers rushed the altar, desperate to escape their impending doom, crying out for God to save them before it was too late. The memory sickens me… These films … didn’t provide any proofs of God’s existence or the accuracy of scripture… Instead, they employed shock and awe, blood and barbarism… these films… did great damage to thousands of young people programmed to feel inadequate, unworthy, vulnerable, persecuted and afraid of the future.” (Pg. 21-22)
He points out, “Tragedy and scandal marked the headlines inside the CCM [Contemporary Christian Music] world every few years, and the faithful would scramble to make sense of it all… In 1986, Scott Douglas, lead vocalist for the Christian band WhiteHeart was… arrested for statutory rape, ultimately doing prison time… CCM had a hugely popular Christian comedian, Mike Warnke… before becoming exposed as a complete fraud in a 1991 cornerstone Magazine article. In ’94, Christian superstar Michael English admitted an affair with Marabeth Jordan (vocalist in another CCM groups, ‘First Call’)… in 1995, Christian icon… Sandi Patty admitted an adulterous relationship… Christian music’s fresh-faced poster child, Amy Grant, announced in 1999 that she was divorcing 17-year husband, Gary Chapman… her marriage to [country singer Vince] Gill the following year came as little surprise… Christian artists Jennifer Knapp and Ray Boltz came out as homosexuals… It was painful to watch my profession and the lives of those involved rocked to the core.” (Pg. 42-43)
He recounts, “In 1999, KXOJ fired me. After a decade behind the microphone… they sent me packing with a month’s pay and a box filled with my personal effects. I left humiliated. And I probably deserved it…. I wasn’t a total jerk, but I did have a tendency to be caustic and impatient with those not on my page. I also struggled with burnout and cynicism… When the interview microphone was off, many artists admitted their own disillusionment, their MINISTRIES soured by all of the publicity stunts… the sheer commerce of it all. Christian music was just another sales niche… I hobbled along for nine months as a freelance producer before getting a second chance for … a Christian Hit Radio designed to dig into KXOJ’s significant market share… my religious convictions had been muted by years of dissatisfaction… I’d become accustomed to doubt, my escapable companion…. I didn’t attend church unless invited on a special occasion. I rarely cracked a bible. I didn’t pray before meals or bedtime… it didn’t take a rocket scientist to see the cause-and-effect physical laws of the real world consistently trumping the explanations and predictions of zealous pastors and their wide-eyed sheep… I still believe in God. But most church practices and teachings had started to feel pretty silly…” (Pg. 52-54)
But then after the 9/11 terrorist attacks: “I found it ridiculous to pray for divine protection as thousands laid torn to pieces amid the twisted steel and burning jet fuel. Any benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent deity could have easily prevented the fires of terror from ever being lit. Did it not occur to God to invalidate some passports?... God could’ve locked all nineteen terrorists in a monster traffic jam and busted the whole operation. Yet God was a non-participant. Invisible… And this was where Christian evangelists Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and their ilk gave their own astounding (and wildly offensive) explanation. God did not … prevent the horror of September 11th because … America had allowed the proliferation of abortion clinics and homosexuals.” (Pg. 58)
He admits, “Compounding this … was the very real fact that my personal life was in shambles, and I was on the final leg of an 18-year marriage… It is the time of my life of which I am least proud, as I was disconnected, unpleasant and completely uninterested in reconciliation. While my wife sought (Christian) counseling and potential recovery of the union, I… [was] already (mentally) packing my bags. And even though this was the same time period where I felt tremendous dissatisfaction with my once-cherished religion, I cannot blame the dissolution of our marriage on religious issues. The subject of God certainly added fuel to the fire, but the spark of division had ignited years before. Fortunately, the divorce was amicable…” (Pg. 117)
He explains, “One by-product of the previous year’s quest for answers was the small mountain of notes, emails, reference materials, Bible verses and personal journal entries I had compiled in my quest for information. By early 2009 I’d run the apologetics gauntlet and emerged with a pretty good idea of where the major traps were.” (Pg. 120) He continues, “my mission became to organize and ultimately translate the most digestible arguments against my former religion into a navigable website and professionally-produced videos, making those elements compelling, fun and relatable. Admittedly, it would be a relatively shallow dip in the vast waters of counter-apologetics.” (Pg. 123)
He notes, “I’m often chided by the religious (and some atheists) for the satirical and often mocking tone of [my] videos… and I reply that the mockery of religion is, for me, therapeutic… the superstitions that used to frighten and control me are now reduced to mere punchlines, and I find the skewering of such sacred cows to be tremendously gratifying. I think mockery has its place and can be useful to highlight the insanity of it all. After all, the stories posited as truth by scripture aren’t made to LOOK ridiculous. They ARE ridiculous.” (Pg. 152)
He concludes, “It has been a long, heartbreaking, exhilarating, enlightening and awe-inspiring journey. I don’t know how The Thinking Atheist community will evolve in the next few years, but I’m tremendously grateful to be a part of it, to see it grow, and to witness firsthand the support and encouragement it has given to others… I have found the evidence-based philosophy for living satisfying, empowering and freeing. The fog of superstitious thinking has lifted, and I have a breathtaking view of a better world.” (Pg. 182)
This book will be of keen interest to Atheists, Skeptics and other Freethinkers.
March 5, 2018
Fantastic book! Seth Andrews lived my own exact life growing up, and we were both traumatized by the same types of things (the movie, "Thief In The Night!"), and we were both fundies/evangelicals for much of our younger lives before we both started asking ourselves some questions, before asking others, and began reading and researching, and while Andrews reached his conclusions and belief system before I did, I admire his resolve and his courage for "coming out" as an atheist in a strong Bible Belt city, because I live in the biggest Bible Belt city in America (I believe it was so named last year...), and unless you're a Red State Republican bible thumper here, you don't really feel very welcome in this city, and while I haven't spent years as an out and out atheist as Andrews has, I may as well, because when I'm not on my feet "praising the lord," I stick out like a sore thumb, and it can make one very uncomfortable. Yes, there there are "liberal" Christians here, as well as a few Muslims, about 25 Jews, possibly a few Hindus, although I haven't seen any, some agnostics, some atheists, but no place to really gather and not be in church, because the only alternative is the Unitarian CHURCH, and while it's a catchall for all beliefs and while they tend to make fun of fundies, it's still called a "church," so that kind of defeats the purpose. I'm reading Dawkins, Hitchins, Barker, George W Smith, and others right now, and it's been really refreshing, and for the first time in my life, I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off of my shoulders, like I've been liberated, and I have Barker and Seth Andrews to thank in many ways, because until Hitchins, they've BEEN there, they understand, they know what it's like to "deconvert" and how traumatic that can be for so many reasons, and I have found this book very helpful and very freeing and I recommend it for anyone going through a similar process or who has questions, doubts, etc. It helps fill it the holes, or flesh out the holes, one finds gaping wide open in the christian bible. And the stress is not on what one believes, but what one doesn't believe, unlike what many people think. Atheism is merely the "a lack of belief in a god" or supernatural being, etc. It's NOT an antithetical belief, although individual atheists can choose to have antithetical beliefs or any belief they want, the caveat being a lack of belief in a god. That's it, that's all. It's very simple. If there is no evidence to convince you that a god exists, you are thus not obligated to believe in a god, nor should anyone else be. Very simple. Sure, you can go full blown philosophical and George W Smith does that, but it's not necessary, and you can find out why by reading most of these authors and finding out in less than 10 minutes. In any event, I'm elated I came across this book and now I listen to the author's podcasts and have found help, comfort, and entertainment in them. Strongly recommended for those encountering spiritual doubts....
August 7, 2021
Δεν είμαι επιστήμονας. Δεν είμαι φιλόσοφος. Δεν είμαι πρώην απολογητής ή μελετητής της Βίβλου. Δεν είμαι απόφοιτος ενός από τα καλύτερα πανεπιστήμια της χώρας. Δεν είμαι ιδιοφυΐα. Δεν ανήκω στην πνευματική ελίτ. Είμαι απλώς ο μέσος άνθρωπος, ένας συνηθισμένος άνθρωπος όπως δισεκατομμύρια άλλοι, που κάποτε είχε επενδυθεί την πλαστή ασφάλεια και την εσφαλμένη συλλογιστική που περιορίζει τόσους ανθρώπους γύρω μας. Όσοι αναζητάτε τη σοφία του Hitchens, του Russell και του Ingersoll αντ’ αυτού θα διαβάσετε μια καθημερινή ιστορία, γραμμένη σε απλή γλώσσα, ενός νεαρού χριστιανού που ανέβηκε τη σκάλα προς τον Παράδεισο
...και πήδηξε.
Περίληψη
Πρόκειται για την αυτοβιογραφία του Seth Andrews.
Πώς από παιδί φονταμενταλιστών θεολόγων που τον έγραψαν σε χριστιανικό σχολείο όταν ανακάλυψαν έντρομοι πως διδασκόταν την επιστήμη και την εξέλιξη στο κοσμικό δημόσιο δημοτικό, ραδιοφωνικός παραγωγός σε χριστιανικό σταθμό, τέλειος χριστιανός, ο ορισμός του «καλού παιδιού» που ακόμα και οι υπόλοιποι χριστιανοί απέφευγαν ως υπερβολικά τυπικό και ξενέρωτο, έφτασε να γίνει άθεος και ο δημιουργός μίας από τις πιο αγαπητές κοινότητες (σελίδα, forum, κανάλι στο Youtube και podcast), το The Thinking Atheist. Οι σκέψεις του, οι φόβοι του και η απόφασή του να αποκαλύψει την ταυτότητά του και να στραφεί στον ακτιβισμό.
Κριτική
Λατρεύω τον Seth Andrews. Έχω περάσει άπειρες ώρες στο κανάλι του, έχω υποτιτλίσει αρκετά βίντεό του, έχω δει όλες τις ομιλίες του από δυο φορές. Είναι σκέτη απόλαυση να τον ακούς, όχι μόνο για αυτά που λέει αλλά και για τον τρόπο που τα λέει, αφού, όπως δηλώνει κι ο ίδιος, αν κάτι ξέρει να κάνει καλά είναι να επικοινωνεί.
Το βιβλίο του (και το audiobook) ήταν το πρώτο που απέκτησα όταν αποφάσισα να επιστρέψω στα βιβλία που είχα για καιρό αφήσει στην άκρη. Αν και τον αγαπώ, τον λατρεύω και θα τον άκουγα ακόμα και να διαβάζει τον τηλεφωνικό κατάλογο, δεν βρήκα το βιβλίο συνταρακτικό. Ίσως επειδή ήξερα ήδη την ιστορία του, ίσως επειδή είναι όντως ένας απλός καθημερινός άνθρωπος και συνήθως η ζωή τους δείχνει βαρετή. Δεν μετανιώνω βέβαια που το διάβασα (άκουσα), πέρασα πέντε ευχάριστες ώρες και ήταν ένα χρήσιμο διάλειμμα από τα επιστημονικά βιβλία που με φέρνουν μερικές φορές στα όρια των νοητικών μου δυνατοτήτων.
May 19, 2016
Full disclosure here: I have been a fan of Seth Andrews and his The Thinking Atheist podcast for quite a while now and that was the reason I bought this book. He's talked about his past before but never in so much detail (unless I've missed a crucial episode or speech or talk or guest appearance) and I have always been curious about his full deconversion story. I'm sure there's even more to it than what's in this book but I am SO glad that I read this.
This book is engaging and easy to read and relate to. It's short, and has short paragraphs, and is actually quite succinct for what it is, despite the fact that Seth is a pretty wordy guy and that still manages to come across in this book.
I had trouble putting this book down and I think that would probably happen even if a believer picked it up to read it. It really is just that interesting and engaging and easy to read. You don't have to be invested from the outset to get engrossed.
I liked the honesty here, as well as the compassion. That's one of the things that I've always liked about Seth, he's honest but he isn't mean and he has an understanding and compassion for people that comes across well when you hear him speak or read his words, and this book was no exception.
I found his deconversion story to be very interesting, though my favorite chapters turned out to be less about the journey to atheism but rather the last couple of chapters where he talks more about atheists and atheism in general as well as his own personal philosophy and ideas about how we treat one another and how we should treat one another and the role of atheism in the public sphere juxtaposed with religion.
Definitely worth the money and the read. Everything I was expecting out of it I got and more.
This book is engaging and easy to read and relate to. It's short, and has short paragraphs, and is actually quite succinct for what it is, despite the fact that Seth is a pretty wordy guy and that still manages to come across in this book.
I had trouble putting this book down and I think that would probably happen even if a believer picked it up to read it. It really is just that interesting and engaging and easy to read. You don't have to be invested from the outset to get engrossed.
I liked the honesty here, as well as the compassion. That's one of the things that I've always liked about Seth, he's honest but he isn't mean and he has an understanding and compassion for people that comes across well when you hear him speak or read his words, and this book was no exception.
I found his deconversion story to be very interesting, though my favorite chapters turned out to be less about the journey to atheism but rather the last couple of chapters where he talks more about atheists and atheism in general as well as his own personal philosophy and ideas about how we treat one another and how we should treat one another and the role of atheism in the public sphere juxtaposed with religion.
Definitely worth the money and the read. Everything I was expecting out of it I got and more.
January 26, 2013
I always enjoyed Seth's atheist show, so hearing that he was releasing a book I was interested. Though truthfully I had some doubts, "Seth, a radio guy, writing a book? It might be good, but can it be great?" And yes, it can be great, and it was.
Seth tells us his story of growing up a strong believer and how he started to question his religious beliefs. And at an age where the "every other sunday"-type church-people start really considering getting "closer with "the lord", Seth stepped away. With Seth being from Oklahoma, coming out as an atheist is quite a big deal there. You could break a lot of strong relationships, and Seth knows this.
If you are a fan of the radio show and Seth's style of storytelling, I'm sure you'll enjoy this fine book.
I would also recommend this as a book you could give to a religious friend who might be questioning his/her faith or is open-minded. Seth points out contradicting bible verses, shoots down some of the most commonly used excuses and apologetics, provides the incest-rape-child murder verses the church doesn't want to talk about (or glosses over) to you. All of this done in a bit "friendlier" and fun matter than say Dawkins or Hitchens (whom the religious might see as arrogant and off-putting).
It's funny, deep, personal, informative, and well-written.
Seth tells us his story of growing up a strong believer and how he started to question his religious beliefs. And at an age where the "every other sunday"-type church-people start really considering getting "closer with "the lord", Seth stepped away. With Seth being from Oklahoma, coming out as an atheist is quite a big deal there. You could break a lot of strong relationships, and Seth knows this.
If you are a fan of the radio show and Seth's style of storytelling, I'm sure you'll enjoy this fine book.
I would also recommend this as a book you could give to a religious friend who might be questioning his/her faith or is open-minded. Seth points out contradicting bible verses, shoots down some of the most commonly used excuses and apologetics, provides the incest-rape-child murder verses the church doesn't want to talk about (or glosses over) to you. All of this done in a bit "friendlier" and fun matter than say Dawkins or Hitchens (whom the religious might see as arrogant and off-putting).
It's funny, deep, personal, informative, and well-written.
March 24, 2013
This short book is an interesting read, a biographical account on how a christian radio personality took the steps from religion to atheism, even activism.
Seth Andrews is perhaps most known today for his website and podcast, The Thinking Atheist. In this book he recounts the origin of the site, and community that he created.
The writing style is fine, but it won't win any literary prices. He's simply "some guy" (his words) trying to think for himself after years of indoctrination.
In Europe we sometimes forget how hard it can be for someone to "come out" as an atheist in the US, especially in the so-called bible belt. This revelation is often akin to social suicide.
While it is the account of an atheist activist, this book can be interesting to those who believe ; they'll discover how Seth, struggling with his beliefs for some time, looked for answers and found the words of Hitchens, Dawkins, Bennet, and others.
If you're curious, consider listening to a few episodes of The Thinking Atheist podcast. Seth knows how to produce a great show, and his deep voice is perfect for radio. TTA picks a discution theme each week, Seth gives his opinion on the topic and takes calls.
I don't know if I would give this book to a curious religious person. I feel that julia Sweeney's account would be a better choice, as her one-woman show is very funny and enthralling.
Seth Andrews is perhaps most known today for his website and podcast, The Thinking Atheist. In this book he recounts the origin of the site, and community that he created.
The writing style is fine, but it won't win any literary prices. He's simply "some guy" (his words) trying to think for himself after years of indoctrination.
In Europe we sometimes forget how hard it can be for someone to "come out" as an atheist in the US, especially in the so-called bible belt. This revelation is often akin to social suicide.
While it is the account of an atheist activist, this book can be interesting to those who believe ; they'll discover how Seth, struggling with his beliefs for some time, looked for answers and found the words of Hitchens, Dawkins, Bennet, and others.
If you're curious, consider listening to a few episodes of The Thinking Atheist podcast. Seth knows how to produce a great show, and his deep voice is perfect for radio. TTA picks a discution theme each week, Seth gives his opinion on the topic and takes calls.
I don't know if I would give this book to a curious religious person. I feel that julia Sweeney's account would be a better choice, as her one-woman show is very funny and enthralling.
November 7, 2013
I hope Seth writes another book just like this one, but detailing his life since the Thinking Atheist was born because I really got a kick out of seeing this larger than life radio persona try his hand at penning a memoir. This story had all the great things that I love about Seth's on air performances! I had read mixed reviews of this book, but I have nothing bad to say about it, other than I wish it had been longer! LOL If you're looking for a detailed manual on how to debate with the religious, this isn't your book. If you're looking for a story of a guy who clawed his way out of dogma and into the bright light of reality....go get this book! Do not pass go, do not collect $200, just go right now and get this book. I would recommend it to any atheist who wants to hear someone else's amazing and sometimes painful journey from religion to atheism, or to someone who may be questioning their faith and want's to know they aren't alone. So, in the words of Seth: "Assume nothing, question everything!"
June 7, 2015
I purchased this book directly from the author this past weekend at a conference he was speaking at, and found in our conversation that Seth is markedly friendly, open, and passionate about his endeavors and the atheist (recovering from religion) community that he is in.
Seth's book depicts his young life as a child, teen and young adult which in some ways parallels mine... although I wasn't immersed in the religious culture as deeply as he was, and it wasn't until my early 40's that I made that 'public' conversion to non-belief. My experience with learning about the atrocities performed in the name of the deity and the conflicting information presented in the holy texts also was influential in me departure from Christianity.
And as another presenter this past weekend stated... sometimes better to use the term 'secular humanist'... it's a positive term. Atheist has a negative connotation, but sometimes gets the better "shock" response from believers.
Seth's book depicts his young life as a child, teen and young adult which in some ways parallels mine... although I wasn't immersed in the religious culture as deeply as he was, and it wasn't until my early 40's that I made that 'public' conversion to non-belief. My experience with learning about the atrocities performed in the name of the deity and the conflicting information presented in the holy texts also was influential in me departure from Christianity.
And as another presenter this past weekend stated... sometimes better to use the term 'secular humanist'... it's a positive term. Atheist has a negative connotation, but sometimes gets the better "shock" response from believers.
June 1, 2013
My background and Seth's are similar. While I was familiar with most of his deconversion story (via his podcast, site, and speeches), I still found Deconverted entertaining. I listened to it in audio format; Seth narrated it himself, which made the version all the better.
This is an excellent gift (or loaner) if you have family members who don't understand how you could have deviated from how you were raised. Seth's story is pretty common amongst American theist-turned-nonbelievers. His straightforward, humorous manner and radio-quality voice only improve the book.
This is an excellent gift (or loaner) if you have family members who don't understand how you could have deviated from how you were raised. Seth's story is pretty common amongst American theist-turned-nonbelievers. His straightforward, humorous manner and radio-quality voice only improve the book.
January 17, 2014
This was very good, but if anything the story was a little too by-the-book and a little boring. Nothing too exciting happens. The audiobook narration was excellent; I could see being less entertained if I had been reading instead of listening. The sections about the history of radio and his industry were interesting. The part I really wanted to hear more about was what triggered his conversion; why would he change his mind when none of his coworkers or family or friends were similarly affected? He talks about this, but I didn't feel the answer was completely satisfactory.
April 26, 2013
Very easy-to-read, clearly expressed story from someone whose story I feel I could have written myself. Atheists, or just people who believe in rational thought, are often seen as angry, hateful people. This is not that. I really love how he is able to tell his story, honestly and rationally, while respecting those who did not and do not share his beliefs. Will be recommending this to many as a way to explain to them my own 'journey'.
August 10, 2014
While this little memoir is not great literature, it's an interesting life's journey for a good little Christian boy raised in a good Christian home in Oklahoma, smack in the middle of the bible belt. Seth Andrews is in his 40s and I predict the best is yet to come in Seth's career. Andrews is already a force in the community of rationalism, and with his friends Matt Dillahunty and Aaron Ra at work, Texas and Oklahoma may never be the same.
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