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Dune #2-3
Мессия Дюны. Дети Дюны
Фрэнк Герберт (1920—1986) успел написать много, но в истории остался прежде всего как автор эпопеи Дюна`. Возможно, самой прославленной фантастической саги нашего столетня, саги, переведенной на десятки языков и приобретшей по всему миру миллионы поклонников. Самый авторитетный журнал научной фантастики `Локус` попросту признал `Дюну`, первый роман эпопеи о `песчаной планете`, лучшим научно - фантастическим романом всех времен и народов. В `Дюне` Фрэнку Герберту удалось совершить невозможное — создать своеобразную `хронику далекого будущего`. И не было за всю историю мировой фантастики картины грядущего более яркой, более зримой, более мощной и оригинальной. Цикл `Дюна` был и остается уникальным явлением — самым грандиозным, самым дерзким, самым масштабным творением за всю историю мировой фантастики.
717 pages, Hardcover
First published January 1, 1979
50 people are currently reading
910 people want to read
About the author
Frank Herbert
558 books16.7k followersFranklin Patrick Herbert Jr. was an American science fiction author best known for the 1965 novel Dune and its five sequels. Though he became famous for his novels, he also wrote short stories and worked as a newspaper journalist, photographer, book reviewer, ecological consultant, and lecturer.
The Dune saga, set in the distant future, and taking place over millennia, explores complex themes, such as the long-term survival of the human species, human evolution, planetary science and ecology, and the intersection of religion, politics, economics and power in a future where humanity has long since developed interstellar travel and settled many thousands of worlds. Dune is the best-selling science fiction novel of all time, and the entire series is considered to be among the classics of the genre.
The Dune saga, set in the distant future, and taking place over millennia, explores complex themes, such as the long-term survival of the human species, human evolution, planetary science and ecology, and the intersection of religion, politics, economics and power in a future where humanity has long since developed interstellar travel and settled many thousands of worlds. Dune is the best-selling science fiction novel of all time, and the entire series is considered to be among the classics of the genre.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 43 reviews
May 1, 2023
Paul is now omnipotent but has trouble getting his consort pregnant and gets blinded so must be half omnipotent which is impossible. Not much at all about the worms which I found fascinating in Dune #1. Most often read phrase is "you speak in riddles." This leads to lots of confusion in the narrative.
June 9, 2024
3.85 - Dune: Messiah ends with the birth of Paul's children Leto II & Ghanima. At the end of Messiah Paul loses his ability to see and since Paul follows the Fremen way of life, he is sent to the desert. The book ends as Paul walks off to his unknown fate, and Alia ultimately becomes a mother figure to her niece and nephew. This book was a short but interesting one to end Paul Atreides reign on Dune, and introduce us to the future of Dune.
In Children of Dune we heavily follow Alia and Leto II as they narrate. Alia ultimately loses herself to the spice and her grandfather Baron corrupts her mind from the afterlife, which causes Jessica to return to Dune.
The events that happen in Children of Dune leave us with Leto II accepting the worm suit and deciding to give himself up to the worms of Dune, preserving him and Dune. This leads us into the future by 1,500 years... Due to Leto II adopting the worms suit and years later he has become a tyrant.
In Children of Dune we heavily follow Alia and Leto II as they narrate. Alia ultimately loses herself to the spice and her grandfather Baron corrupts her mind from the afterlife, which causes Jessica to return to Dune.
The events that happen in Children of Dune leave us with Leto II accepting the worm suit and deciding to give himself up to the worms of Dune, preserving him and Dune. This leads us into the future by 1,500 years... Due to Leto II adopting the worms suit and years later he has become a tyrant.
April 15, 2020
Like 'Dune', I read these 2 sequels many years ago and wanted to re-aquaint myself to the saga. 'Dune Messiah' was originally written in 1969 and 'Children of Dune' written in 1976, but I'm looking at the Science Fiction Book Club version that I picked up in 2002 for my son.
If you didn't like the original 'Dune', you won't much like these either. But if you were caught up in Herbert's desert world of Dune, then these 2 additions are a welcome fleshing out of his vision. (Sorry for the pun.)
Like 'Dune', Herbert weaves threads of religion, ecology, personal relationships and prescience into a compelling (if oft confusing) narrative mostly following the Atreides family. To me, one of the signs of a good book is one's disappointment in finishing because you wish it would continue. Both of these stories fit the bill. Now that I've once again finished these trio of stories, I'll see if I can find my old copy of 'God Emperor...' somewhere. I wish to continue the saga.
If you didn't like the original 'Dune', you won't much like these either. But if you were caught up in Herbert's desert world of Dune, then these 2 additions are a welcome fleshing out of his vision. (Sorry for the pun.)
Like 'Dune', Herbert weaves threads of religion, ecology, personal relationships and prescience into a compelling (if oft confusing) narrative mostly following the Atreides family. To me, one of the signs of a good book is one's disappointment in finishing because you wish it would continue. Both of these stories fit the bill. Now that I've once again finished these trio of stories, I'll see if I can find my old copy of 'God Emperor...' somewhere. I wish to continue the saga.
July 21, 2022
DUNE MESSIAH
This sequel is better than the first. Plot moves faster and had all the spiciness that GRRM uses to flavour his ASOIAF.
• “I told him that to endure oneself may be the hardest task in the universe.” – Hayt/Duncan, the ghola.
• “I’ve heard enough sad histories of gods and messiahs.” – Paul
.. also..
• “Truth suffers from too much analysis. -Ancient Fremen Saying”
“Empires do not suffer emptiness of purpose at the time of their creation. It is when they have become established that aims are lost and replaced by vague ritual.” -Words of Muad'dib by Princess Irulan.”
• “If you need something to worship, then worship life - all life, every last crawling bit of it! We're all in this beauty together!”
“Constitutions become the ultimate tyranny," Paul said. "They’re organized power on such a scale as to be overwhelming. The constitution is social power mobilized and it has no conscience. It can crush the highest and the lowest, removing all dignity and individuality. It has an unstable balance point and no limitations.”
…
CHILDREN OF DUNE
There is plenty of weirdness in this novel. As readers we get attached to, or repulsed by, the characters we encounter. So there is always a sense of disappointment when they do not meet up to expectations.
The plot is much slower, and the internal monologues of philosophy or calculated manoeuvring fill most of the novel.
Herbert’s descriptions of the dunes is captivating: “It was difficult to take his gaze away from the sands, the dunes—the great emptiness. Here at the edge of the sand lay a few rocks, but they led the imagination outward into the winds, the dust, the sparse and lonely plants and animals, dune merging into dune, desert into desert.”
Good story, but I am just wondering if I should proceed with the fourth book if the quality begins to diminish.
Cool quotes:
• “He possessed inherited memories which could inflict him with profound nostalgia for that beautiful planet where House Atreides had ruled.” (p29)
• “Beyond the oasis, he could see in this failing light the land Fremen called "The Emptiness" – the land where nothing grows, the land never fertile.” (p31)
• “Ignorance has its advantages. A universe of surprises is what I pray for!” – Leto II (p97)
• “Good government never depends upon laws, but upon the personal qualities of those who govern. The machinery of government is always subordinate to the will of those who administer that machinery. The most important element of government, therefore, is the method of choosing leaders.” (p154)
• “There’s no real mystery about this at the moment. This is what we want now. It may prove wrong later, but we’ll correct that when we come to it.” The full quote is: “Above all else, the mentat must be a generalist, not a specialist. It is wise to have decisions of great moment monitored by generalists. Experts and specialists lead you quickly into chaos. They are a source of useless nit-picking, the ferocious quibble over a comma. The mentat-generalist, on the other hand, should bring to decision-making a healthy common sense. He must not cut himself off from the broad sweep of what is happening in his universe. He must remain capable of saying: “There’s no real mystery about this at the moment. This is what we want now. It may prove wrong later, but we’ll correct that when we come to it.” The mentat-generalist must understand that anything which we can identify as our universe is merely part of larger phenomena. But the expert looks backward; he looks into the narrow standards of his own specialty. The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop.” (p232)
• “Is your religion real when it costs you nothing and carries no risk? Is your religion real when you fatten upon it? Is your religion real when you commit atrocities in its name?” – The Preacher (p236)
• “There’s no mystery about a human life. It’s not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.” – Leto II (p.282)
• “The spirit of Muad'Dib is more than words, more than the letter of the law which arises in his name. Muad'Dib must always be that inner outrage against the complacently powerful, against the charlatans and the dogmatic fanatics. It is that inner outrage which must have its say because Muad'Dib taught us above all others, that humans can endure only in a fraternity of social justice. -- The Fedaykin Compact” (p.338)
This sequel is better than the first. Plot moves faster and had all the spiciness that GRRM uses to flavour his ASOIAF.
• “I told him that to endure oneself may be the hardest task in the universe.” – Hayt/Duncan, the ghola.
• “I’ve heard enough sad histories of gods and messiahs.” – Paul
.. also..
• “Truth suffers from too much analysis. -Ancient Fremen Saying”
“Empires do not suffer emptiness of purpose at the time of their creation. It is when they have become established that aims are lost and replaced by vague ritual.” -Words of Muad'dib by Princess Irulan.”
• “If you need something to worship, then worship life - all life, every last crawling bit of it! We're all in this beauty together!”
“Constitutions become the ultimate tyranny," Paul said. "They’re organized power on such a scale as to be overwhelming. The constitution is social power mobilized and it has no conscience. It can crush the highest and the lowest, removing all dignity and individuality. It has an unstable balance point and no limitations.”
…
CHILDREN OF DUNE
There is plenty of weirdness in this novel. As readers we get attached to, or repulsed by, the characters we encounter. So there is always a sense of disappointment when they do not meet up to expectations.
The plot is much slower, and the internal monologues of philosophy or calculated manoeuvring fill most of the novel.
Herbert’s descriptions of the dunes is captivating: “It was difficult to take his gaze away from the sands, the dunes—the great emptiness. Here at the edge of the sand lay a few rocks, but they led the imagination outward into the winds, the dust, the sparse and lonely plants and animals, dune merging into dune, desert into desert.”
Good story, but I am just wondering if I should proceed with the fourth book if the quality begins to diminish.
Cool quotes:
• “He possessed inherited memories which could inflict him with profound nostalgia for that beautiful planet where House Atreides had ruled.” (p29)
• “Beyond the oasis, he could see in this failing light the land Fremen called "The Emptiness" – the land where nothing grows, the land never fertile.” (p31)
• “Ignorance has its advantages. A universe of surprises is what I pray for!” – Leto II (p97)
• “Good government never depends upon laws, but upon the personal qualities of those who govern. The machinery of government is always subordinate to the will of those who administer that machinery. The most important element of government, therefore, is the method of choosing leaders.” (p154)
• “There’s no real mystery about this at the moment. This is what we want now. It may prove wrong later, but we’ll correct that when we come to it.” The full quote is: “Above all else, the mentat must be a generalist, not a specialist. It is wise to have decisions of great moment monitored by generalists. Experts and specialists lead you quickly into chaos. They are a source of useless nit-picking, the ferocious quibble over a comma. The mentat-generalist, on the other hand, should bring to decision-making a healthy common sense. He must not cut himself off from the broad sweep of what is happening in his universe. He must remain capable of saying: “There’s no real mystery about this at the moment. This is what we want now. It may prove wrong later, but we’ll correct that when we come to it.” The mentat-generalist must understand that anything which we can identify as our universe is merely part of larger phenomena. But the expert looks backward; he looks into the narrow standards of his own specialty. The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop.” (p232)
• “Is your religion real when it costs you nothing and carries no risk? Is your religion real when you fatten upon it? Is your religion real when you commit atrocities in its name?” – The Preacher (p236)
• “There’s no mystery about a human life. It’s not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.” – Leto II (p.282)
• “The spirit of Muad'Dib is more than words, more than the letter of the law which arises in his name. Muad'Dib must always be that inner outrage against the complacently powerful, against the charlatans and the dogmatic fanatics. It is that inner outrage which must have its say because Muad'Dib taught us above all others, that humans can endure only in a fraternity of social justice. -- The Fedaykin Compact” (p.338)
March 15, 2022
1-23-09 DUNE MESSIAH: Paul is now the Emperor of the universe, and he is worshipped as a God, by all on Dune. This is further complicated by him battling other planets to bow to him and his sister's attributes to his godliness. Alia is also troubled because she can not see the future that Paul so easily sees and is not able to avoid. There is a plot out against Paul's life, and the Bene Gesserit are determined to salvage his blood line.
7-29-11 CHILDREN OF DUNE: The planet once called Dune is now known as Arrakis, because of the dramatic and rapid environmental changes. Arrakis is being transformed into a green planet. This is one of the several abominations that are mentioned in this book. Alia, the regent, plans to make the spice even rarer than it is now. With only a handful of worms, there will not be enough spice for all in the Imperium.
Another abomination is the religion of Muad’Dib, which the Preacher speaks out against. The Preacher’s goal is to bring Paul down from a religious god to just a man. However the question on everyone’s mind is, is the Preacher really Paul Atreides?
The obvious abomination is that of Alia, filled by all the voices in her genetic line. She repeatedly and purposefully goes into a spice trance, which is the invitation to her possession. The twins fear the possibility of abomination which Alia is not able to withstand against.
Adding to Alia’s stress is her mother Jessica’s return to Arrakis, as a Bene Gesserit. His Golden Path is the only way to escape from what has been done to Arrakis.
7-29-11 CHILDREN OF DUNE: The planet once called Dune is now known as Arrakis, because of the dramatic and rapid environmental changes. Arrakis is being transformed into a green planet. This is one of the several abominations that are mentioned in this book. Alia, the regent, plans to make the spice even rarer than it is now. With only a handful of worms, there will not be enough spice for all in the Imperium.
Another abomination is the religion of Muad’Dib, which the Preacher speaks out against. The Preacher’s goal is to bring Paul down from a religious god to just a man. However the question on everyone’s mind is, is the Preacher really Paul Atreides?
The obvious abomination is that of Alia, filled by all the voices in her genetic line. She repeatedly and purposefully goes into a spice trance, which is the invitation to her possession. The twins fear the possibility of abomination which Alia is not able to withstand against.
Adding to Alia’s stress is her mother Jessica’s return to Arrakis, as a Bene Gesserit. His Golden Path is the only way to escape from what has been done to Arrakis.
January 5, 2023
Finished in 2021
Dune Messiah is about the death of Paul and Chani to protect the Freeman. One interesting fact is that with the raise of power and r religious status, the ruler still have troubles, now is to worry about people trying to kill him.
Children of Dune details the life of the Messiah’s son, and his powerful yet also dangerous sister. The world in Dune is stretched to become big because the society became complex but the presence of harm did not diminish.
Dune Messiah is about the death of Paul and Chani to protect the Freeman. One interesting fact is that with the raise of power and r religious status, the ruler still have troubles, now is to worry about people trying to kill him.
Children of Dune details the life of the Messiah’s son, and his powerful yet also dangerous sister. The world in Dune is stretched to become big because the society became complex but the presence of harm did not diminish.
July 20, 2022
Մի այլ կարգի խոնարհում Հերբերտին սենց շքեղ ու ազդեցիկ կին կերպարների համար, էդ թվերի ու տղամարդ գրողի համար ահավոր անսովոր բան ա։
Мессия Дюны
Էս պահի դրությամբ ամենաշատը հավանածս հատորն ա: Վերջին էջերին համարյա լացել եմ։
Дети Дюны
Փիլիսոփայությունը ավելի շատ էր, ընդհանրապես դյունան կարդալուց պիտի իմանաս, որ լիքը բաներ ընթացքում չես հասկանալու, հետո, կարող ա նույնիսկ մյուս հատորներում նոր պարզաբանվեն դրանք, բարդությունը էն ա, որ պետք ա ուղղակի մտապահես մի ձև էդ անհասկանալի պահերը կամ հետո մի հատ էլ գոնե թերթես, որ տեղը ընկնի։ Ոնց օրինակ սրա վերջում նոր պարզ դարձավ թե Պոլը ինչի էր տենց խուսափում իրա տեսած ապագայից, ինչից էր տենց վախենում, ինչից փախավ, վերջը փշաքաղվելով ես կարդում։
Мессия Дюны
Էս պահի դրությամբ ամենաշատը հավանածս հատորն ա: Վերջին էջերին համարյա լացել եմ։
Дети Дюны
Փիլիսոփայությունը ավելի շատ էր, ընդհանրապես դյունան կարդալուց պիտի իմանաս, որ լիքը բաներ ընթացքում չես հասկանալու, հետո, կարող ա նույնիսկ մյուս հատորներում նոր պարզաբանվեն դրանք, բարդությունը էն ա, որ պետք ա ուղղակի մտապահես մի ձև էդ անհասկանալի պահերը կամ հետո մի հատ էլ գոնե թերթես, որ տեղը ընկնի։ Ոնց օրինակ սրա վերջում նոր պարզ դարձավ թե Պոլը ինչի էր տենց խուսափում իրա տեսած ապագայից, ինչից էր տենց վախենում, ինչից փախավ, վերջը փշաքաղվելով ես կարդում։
April 29, 2020
Goes like this. Tense situation implied. Everybody has heightened awareness. Prescience, spice sense, Bene Gesserit, Tleilax, mentat. Think think think about current problem. Something happens. Switch to next scenario. Repeat. The problem is that writing about sitting at the top of an empire of this magnitude and complexity is just hard. Feels inert even when something is trying to happen. I admire the ideas. Have waited since the 60s to reread Dune Messiah; hated it when I was young. Never read Children of Dune. Now that I am reading them, I find myself mostly in awe of the scope, the layers of ideas one after the other, but the books are a slog. If Paul and Leto were female characters they would be Mary Sues. Always seeing, seeing, thinking, thinking, always right. At last some action comes. Doesn't quite save the books. But I will always admire this universe and am looking forward to the newest movie version of Dune.
November 9, 2022
Quite a big improvement on the writing style from book one to these following two. From flat characters and minimal description in book 1 to them both being handled more adeptly and given stories that are genuinely interesting. Really glad I didnt leave off with the first book, these two were worth reading.
April 25, 2024
I appreciate and understand the significance of Leto II's actions but I really really really can't get over the fact that THEY TURNED HIM INTO I KNOW WHY BUT WHY!
November 26, 2019
Weirdly enough I felt like Dune was fine as a stand-alone, but these other two in the series were good as well! They were still a great continuation of the story lines and I’m interested to see what happens next.
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December 9, 2020today i had finished read this one.i read the whole dune series.and,after i lll read one thousands nights-arabian tales.and after....a year,or two i lll not read nothing,cause illl have other preocupatios
October 10, 2017
You can get lost in the worlds of Frank Herbert...
February 24, 2021
I loved the return to Arrakis and the mix of political machinations, science fiction, philosophy and religion that makes up these stories. Along with engaging storytelling.
May 17, 2021
I enjoyed this one better than Dune and I loved Dune!
November 5, 2021
A good book, but a step down from Dune in scope.
January 18, 2022
Epicness continues in parts 2 and 3.
May 6, 2022
Children of Dune: 2/5
Dune Messiah: 1.5/5
Dune Messiah: 1.5/5
May 14, 2022
Meh. Just don’t understand the desire to kill your little darlings.
June 29, 2022
Reading this book inspired a Star Wars Sequel Trilogy fan edit post. If you're curious please check out my blog on https://pbjellybell.blogspot.com/
August 21, 2022
This is a reread me. I had forgotten so much! Especially about Hayt. Now on to Children of Dune.
November 8, 2023
Horrible. This seems written by a Dune-fanboy high on acid, the suspense and mystique of the first book do not carry over in the second and third.
October 10, 2024
Lit love dune this book freaky as hell
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August 24, 2025reviewNone
August 19, 2018
Dune Messiah wasn't the epic tale the first novel was. It was a totally different reading experience. Of course, everything that made the first book great (introduction to the strange desert planet, Paul discovering himself and coming into his own, discovering the mysterious Fremen, etc.) couldn't be repeated. This book did open up to the larger Dune universe by way of introduction to the Tleilaxu and their creations. In a relatively short amount of time, Paul has gone from the young Kwisatz Haderach to the cynical, world-weary, bitter Emperor - but I guess having to rule the universe and being worshipped as a god will do that to you. I did enjoy this book, but not as much as the original.
Children of Dune started out pretty slow for me. I was still getting over having the "good triumphs over evil and everything is right in the universe" ending of the original Dune spoiled by the sequels - I even considered putting this one down, but then about 150 pages in something happened. I realized I had become totally edge-of-my-seat invested in this dodgy, layer upon layer of grey universe with its morally ambiguous characters. By the end I had come to appreciate what Herbert achieved in smashing all of the idols of the original Dune novel (though it's still my favorite). All in all, highly recommended - but if you like happy endings, you may want to stop after the first novel.
Children of Dune started out pretty slow for me. I was still getting over having the "good triumphs over evil and everything is right in the universe" ending of the original Dune spoiled by the sequels - I even considered putting this one down, but then about 150 pages in something happened. I realized I had become totally edge-of-my-seat invested in this dodgy, layer upon layer of grey universe with its morally ambiguous characters. By the end I had come to appreciate what Herbert achieved in smashing all of the idols of the original Dune novel (though it's still my favorite). All in all, highly recommended - but if you like happy endings, you may want to stop after the first novel.
May 1, 2009
Umm. Can I just say that I don't get it? What is all the hype about? I don't like any of the characters and I don't see the point of the plot. It is just a mishmash of a bunch of power-hungry people as far as I can tell. I think I will TRY to finish the series, but I am not hopeful.
This is not even close to my top 10 favorite sci fi books.
This is not even close to my top 10 favorite sci fi books.
September 25, 2012
This one really did confuse me a lot of times. Too much philosophy and I admit I skipped some of it by just reading across it without grasping the meaning.
I finished the book rather quickly and enjoyed the story. However after the finale I am not sure I want to read the next books of the series. Too much confusion and do I really want to read about Leto after this ...?
I finished the book rather quickly and enjoyed the story. However after the finale I am not sure I want to read the next books of the series. Too much confusion and do I really want to read about Leto after this ...?
June 2, 2019
Hmmm.... too many speeches on loop. At the end it gets a bit power ranges. The first two books were great... and this kept me reading until the end... but I am not down with the conclusion at all... or at least the way it was handled. I feel a little guilty give a 3 but I have to leave room for the previous two books.
January 24, 2011
Amazing!
Dune Messiah is a very good book, not as good as the original Dune, but a very good book.
Children of Dune is superb, even better than Dune. I loved the way the book ended.
Everyone who liked Dune should check these books out.
Dune Messiah is a very good book, not as good as the original Dune, but a very good book.
Children of Dune is superb, even better than Dune. I loved the way the book ended.
Everyone who liked Dune should check these books out.
Displaying 1 - 30 of 43 reviews