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Montségur et l'énigme Cathare
Editeur : Le grand livre du mois Date de parution : 1986 Description : In-8, 314 pages, relié cartonné avec jaquette, occasion, très bon état. Envois quotidiens du mardi au samedi. Les commandes sont adressées sous enveloppes bulles. Photos supplémentaires de l'ouvrage sur simple demande. Réponses aux questions dans les 12h00. Librairie Le Piano-Livre. Merci. Please let us know if you have any questions. Thanks
317 pages, Hardcover
First published January 1, 1986
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Displaying 1 - 6 of 6 reviews
April 12, 2017
I do think the author's arrival at the conclusion that Catharism is descended from one of the religions that derived from the pantheon of the Levant is correct. As far as I can tell this loose pantheon of deities was broken up with the sects of each god within the pantheon becoming their own religion. The followers of Baal went to form their own religion, Yahweh's sect became the Jews (Yahweh being the Jewish term for 'god') and Ahura Mazda became the sole deity of a number of sects including Zoroastrianism, and Manicheanism of which Catharism was descended from.
Manicheanism was a relatively short-lived, but large and far-spread religion that stretched right through the Persian Empire and beyond. From Greece, to Turkey and down the Silk Roads to China. It was a Dualist religion that incorporated some elements of Eastern philosophy. At some point it declined, absorbed a facade of Christianity such as some terminology etc. It dwindled and became isolated in Bulgaria from whence it was evicted and meandered westward through Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and France before winding up in what is now south-west France (and occasionally the regions of Spain and Italy that it bordered), in what was then the separate land of Occitania-the Language, Occitan, is still spoken today.
Catharism wound up in Occitania because the region was progressively tolerant for the Medieval period. The rulers tolerated large Jewish, Muslim and Cathar populations in what was a free, independent and prosperous land. After being evicted from every previous country they found a place they could spread their faith in without fear of persecution. The creed prospered so much that many people from every class within the society converted over the centuries and the religion ended up with a large membership, as well as support from many Catholics who tolerated and lived alongside neighbours, friends and family members who were Cathars. Whilst the Cathar faith could be found in its final form in Occitania the ideas at its heart were of a non-Christian origin and was thus a separate religion to Christianity thus it cannot be regarded as a heresy. Heresy only applies to a distortion or re/misinterpretion of a religion. The Catholic church regarded the Cathars as heretics which can't possibly be true as Catharism was its own separate religion, as were Judaism and Islam, and not a deviation of Christianity. Despite using the same word for 'god' and the 'devil'.
In fact whereas Christianity is a false dualism, Catharism was a truly dualism religion. The Cathars believed in God and the Devil and in Heaven and Hell. The difference being they believed that God (good) and the Devil (evil) were equals, whereas Christianity has a flaw whereby it believes god created the world and everything in it, including the devil and therefore evil. In Christianity the world acts as an intermediary between heaven and hell whereby humans must prove themselves and be judged by god whether they enter heaven or hell. Catharism believed that the material world was a creation of the devil and as such all material things must be rejected. A 'Perfect' must live an ascetic life and do good and selfless acts and not be afraid of death, be pacifist and vegetarian. Upon dying, having rejected the material world the Perfecti would then ascend to heaven, the immaterial world. The soul would escape its physical bonds the devil had created for them and be released into heaven which god had created. A mere credenti, a believer who didn't live life as a Perfecti would be reborn again upon death, depending on their actions in life they would be reborn either as a human or as some lesser animal. A credenti could commit violence, have sex, eat meat etc. But could be given the consolamentum upon their death bed, the consolamentum was the oath of the perfecti, a simple religious ceremony where a Credenti would swear to a Perfecti that he would abide by the Perfecti way of life until death. This would admit him to heaven so long as he rejected the temptations of the Devil's material world until then. The Cathars believed in gods angels who were there to help humans find the way to escape the clutches of the devil and to reach heaven. They incorporated Jesus into their religion as one of these.
The French crown persuaded the Pope to call a crusade on the Cathars. This allowed the French crown to annex the Occitan lands to its south-west and to fix its border with Spain.
Most of this book is good but I found the last several chapters to be just ramblings about various Arthurian mythologies with vague attempts to compare them to Cathar theology which I found utterly pointless and irrelevant.
Manicheanism was a relatively short-lived, but large and far-spread religion that stretched right through the Persian Empire and beyond. From Greece, to Turkey and down the Silk Roads to China. It was a Dualist religion that incorporated some elements of Eastern philosophy. At some point it declined, absorbed a facade of Christianity such as some terminology etc. It dwindled and became isolated in Bulgaria from whence it was evicted and meandered westward through Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and France before winding up in what is now south-west France (and occasionally the regions of Spain and Italy that it bordered), in what was then the separate land of Occitania-the Language, Occitan, is still spoken today.
Catharism wound up in Occitania because the region was progressively tolerant for the Medieval period. The rulers tolerated large Jewish, Muslim and Cathar populations in what was a free, independent and prosperous land. After being evicted from every previous country they found a place they could spread their faith in without fear of persecution. The creed prospered so much that many people from every class within the society converted over the centuries and the religion ended up with a large membership, as well as support from many Catholics who tolerated and lived alongside neighbours, friends and family members who were Cathars. Whilst the Cathar faith could be found in its final form in Occitania the ideas at its heart were of a non-Christian origin and was thus a separate religion to Christianity thus it cannot be regarded as a heresy. Heresy only applies to a distortion or re/misinterpretion of a religion. The Catholic church regarded the Cathars as heretics which can't possibly be true as Catharism was its own separate religion, as were Judaism and Islam, and not a deviation of Christianity. Despite using the same word for 'god' and the 'devil'.
In fact whereas Christianity is a false dualism, Catharism was a truly dualism religion. The Cathars believed in God and the Devil and in Heaven and Hell. The difference being they believed that God (good) and the Devil (evil) were equals, whereas Christianity has a flaw whereby it believes god created the world and everything in it, including the devil and therefore evil. In Christianity the world acts as an intermediary between heaven and hell whereby humans must prove themselves and be judged by god whether they enter heaven or hell. Catharism believed that the material world was a creation of the devil and as such all material things must be rejected. A 'Perfect' must live an ascetic life and do good and selfless acts and not be afraid of death, be pacifist and vegetarian. Upon dying, having rejected the material world the Perfecti would then ascend to heaven, the immaterial world. The soul would escape its physical bonds the devil had created for them and be released into heaven which god had created. A mere credenti, a believer who didn't live life as a Perfecti would be reborn again upon death, depending on their actions in life they would be reborn either as a human or as some lesser animal. A credenti could commit violence, have sex, eat meat etc. But could be given the consolamentum upon their death bed, the consolamentum was the oath of the perfecti, a simple religious ceremony where a Credenti would swear to a Perfecti that he would abide by the Perfecti way of life until death. This would admit him to heaven so long as he rejected the temptations of the Devil's material world until then. The Cathars believed in gods angels who were there to help humans find the way to escape the clutches of the devil and to reach heaven. They incorporated Jesus into their religion as one of these.
The French crown persuaded the Pope to call a crusade on the Cathars. This allowed the French crown to annex the Occitan lands to its south-west and to fix its border with Spain.
Most of this book is good but I found the last several chapters to be just ramblings about various Arthurian mythologies with vague attempts to compare them to Cathar theology which I found utterly pointless and irrelevant.
March 24, 2008
A very scholastically centered book on the actualities the Great Heresy had on Church policies and doctrinal evaluation.
May 1, 2011
Dry reading but fascinating history. . .
November 14, 2024
L'auteur était passionné par les mythes, celtiques tout d'abord, puis plus largement par le roman arthurien, le Graal et tant de mystères qui font encore couler beaucoup d'encre. Parfois décrié par les Historiens, notamment pointant sa rigueur toute relative, il n'en demeure pas moins un auteur incontournable, passionnant et passionné, et que l'on prend plaisir à lire !
Il nous transporte ici dans une région au paysage grandiose, où le caractère des hommes semble s'être accordé avec la magie du terrain. C'est ainsi là que la religion cathare a trouvé un terrain d'ancrage avant que les Inquisiteurs ne viennent détruire cette construction philosophique.
Au fil des pages, Jean Markale nous présente les grandes lignes de cette religion, ses liens probables avec d'autres croyances comme le bogomilisme, le mazdéisme ou encore le manichéisme. L'étude est bien construite et dense en connaissances.
Dans cette région, qui a vu mourir les Cathares, différentes légendes sont tenaces, et notamment celle d'un trésor (ou secret) que les derniers survivants auraient caché et/ou transmis. Il aurait pu survivre à travers les Templiers, voire à travers des confréries d'initiés.
Jean Markale explore les différentes possibilités, non sans une belle pointe d'humour : Graal, descendance de Jésus, Marie-Madeleine... Et nous verrons passer des francs-maçons, des membres de la Rose-croix, des nazis, des néo-cathares farfelus. Tous arpentant avec conviction ces lieux où Montségur, Rennes-le-Château et Bugarach sont des points de ralliement emblématiques.
Qu'en est-il finalement ? Ce n'est pas vraiment ce qui compte ici.
L'important c'est le rêve, la quête, la croyance magique dans des éléments cachés ! Et, tant que l'homme sera en capacité d'imaginer le Merveilleux, il sera toujours Vivant !!!
Il nous transporte ici dans une région au paysage grandiose, où le caractère des hommes semble s'être accordé avec la magie du terrain. C'est ainsi là que la religion cathare a trouvé un terrain d'ancrage avant que les Inquisiteurs ne viennent détruire cette construction philosophique.
Au fil des pages, Jean Markale nous présente les grandes lignes de cette religion, ses liens probables avec d'autres croyances comme le bogomilisme, le mazdéisme ou encore le manichéisme. L'étude est bien construite et dense en connaissances.
Dans cette région, qui a vu mourir les Cathares, différentes légendes sont tenaces, et notamment celle d'un trésor (ou secret) que les derniers survivants auraient caché et/ou transmis. Il aurait pu survivre à travers les Templiers, voire à travers des confréries d'initiés.
Jean Markale explore les différentes possibilités, non sans une belle pointe d'humour : Graal, descendance de Jésus, Marie-Madeleine... Et nous verrons passer des francs-maçons, des membres de la Rose-croix, des nazis, des néo-cathares farfelus. Tous arpentant avec conviction ces lieux où Montségur, Rennes-le-Château et Bugarach sont des points de ralliement emblématiques.
Qu'en est-il finalement ? Ce n'est pas vraiment ce qui compte ici.
L'important c'est le rêve, la quête, la croyance magique dans des éléments cachés ! Et, tant que l'homme sera en capacité d'imaginer le Merveilleux, il sera toujours Vivant !!!
May 6, 2023
I had to give up on this one. I may go back to it. The subject seemed more interesting than the book, and it needs to be proofread.
March 22, 2009
Pulled this off of the shelf last night and read straight through 40 pages - would have read more but I couldn't keep my eyes open. Can't wait to curl up with it again.
Displaying 1 - 6 of 6 reviews