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Ce qui dépend de nous
translation into French (by Myrto Gondicus) of the Manual and excerpts of the Discourses of Epictetus, along with a short piece by Blaise Pascal
- GenresPhilosophy
205 pages, Paperback
First published March 1, 1995
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Epictetus
909 books2,293 followersEpictetus was a Greek Stoic philosopher. He was probably born a slave at Hierapolis, Phrygia (present day Pamukkale, Turkey), and lived in Rome until his exile to Nicopolis in northwestern Greece, where he lived most of his life and died. His teachings were noted down and published by his pupil Arrian in his Discourses. Philosophy, he taught, is a way of life and not just a theoretical discipline. To Epictetus, all external events are determined by fate, and are thus beyond our control, but we can accept whatever happens calmly and dispassionately. Individuals, however, are responsible for their own actions which they can examine and control through rigorous self-discipline. Suffering arises from trying to control what is uncontrollable, or from neglecting what is within our power. As part of the universal city that is the universe, human beings have a duty of care to all fellow humans. The person who followed these precepts would achieve happiness.
Other language versions:
Epictète
Epícteto
Epiktet
Other language versions:
Epictète
Epícteto
Epiktet
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August 13, 2016 The Manual (Enchiridion) and The Discourses (excerpts) of Epictetus
Epictetus (c. 60 - c. 125 CE), whose name literally meant "bought", was a Greek born in what is now western Turkey and became, we know not how, a slave in Rome. His last master, himself a freedman, allowed him to attend the lectures of the Roman Stoic philosopher C. Musonius Rufus and eventually freed him. Epictetus taught philosophy in Rome until Emperor Domitian banned all philosophers from Rome. He moved to Nicopolis in Epirus and started a school of his own, where he remained until his death, despite Marcus Aurelius' requests that he return to Rome.
Epictetus was a philosopher in the then already very old tradition called Stoicism, begun by Zeno in the 5th century BCE, and, according to those much more expert in the Stoic literature than I, was not himself a creative thinker. However, he knew the tradition well and adopted a tone and style of presentation which has appealed for nearly 2,000 years. Epictetus did not, in fact, write "his" books; they were written down by his student and future well known historian, Arrian. It is of interest to note that those who can read the original Greek report that the language used in the books attributed by Arrian to Epictetus is quite different from that used by Arrian in his own books, a good indication that Arrian might be reporting faithfully what Epictetus actually said.
Not all of these writings have survived, but, unlike the founders of the Stoic tradition - Zeno, Cleanthus (Cleanthes), Chrysippus - of whose extensive writings almost nothing has survived, we do have a few hundred pages of these reports on the lectures and discussions of Epictetus.
The founders of Stoicism were very interested in physics, metaphysics and logic, but there is little to none of that in Epictetus. He seems to be almost exclusively concerned with ethics, with what is the correct way to live, what are the correct values in life. And because he was co-opted by the Roman Catholic Church and generations of the oligarchy in Europe and America, reading Epictetus can arouse some very distasteful associations in one's mind.(*) So, above all, be careful of the translation you read.(**) Also, beware something called The Golden Sayings of Epictetus; that appears to be a cherry-picking of Epictetus made for the above-mentioned clientele.
In this book we have a recent translation into French of the Manual (also known as the Enchiridion) and excerpts from the Discourses (and a little extra, discussed below). The Manual is exactly what the title suggests - a short summary of Stoic dogmas with an admixture of advice and admonishments.
A central Stoic dogma: 1. There is a distinction between that which depends solely on us (that which is solely within our power to affect) and the rest. And precious little is on this side of the line; even one's body is on the other side of the line. 2. Don't be concerned with anything which lies on the other side of the line. Only that which lies on this side of the distinction matters and should occupy us.
"Quant au désir, pour le moment, supprime-le complètement."
(As for desire, for the moment, suppress it completely.) This is because that which one desires lies on the other side of the line. But even those things on this side of the line, such as urges, likes and dislikes, follow them only lightly, nonsystematically, without excessive effort. All attachments to objects, people, ambitions, etc. should not be taken as essential or important. In fact, one must constantly remind oneself that they "do not depend upon us," they are outside of our control, and therefore should be taken or left as they come and go.(***)
Another central, but related dogma: "Ce qui tourmente les hommes, ce n'est pas la réalité mais les opinions qu'ils s'en font." (That which torments men is not reality but the opinions they make of it for themselves.) Our opinions do depend on us; we may change them as we will. Hence, if one feels torment, change your opinion so that you no longer do so. Epictetus grants, somewhat indirectly, that this may well be very difficult to carry out, which is why this manual repeatedly offers various concrete ways to develop this ability to become unattached.
Another central, but related dogma: "N'attends pas que les événements arrivent comme tu le souhaites; décide de vouloir ce qui arrive et tu seras heureux." (Do not expect that events will occur as you wish; decide to want whatever happens and you will be happy.) Again, not at all easy to do. Hidden within these maxims is the prospect of an enormous mental and spiritual effort.
These are but a few samples of Stoic lore culled from the Manual. Stoicism has always posed the same challenge and exerted the same attraction upon me as Buddhism has.
The Discourses, of which only about half has survived to our day, present in a very unorganized, non-uniform and sometimes repetitive manner Epictetus' thoughts on many matters. These are reports of lectures and conversations. They are not all of equal quality, but altogether I find them to be very interesting. I intend to write a review of another edition I have of the complete (with the above mentioned proviso) Discourses, so I won't expand upon them here.
The little extra "treat" in this particular edition is Blaise Pascal's "demonstration" that philosophy is sorely insufficient, as is man, and both badly need faith in the Christian God. In this argument the books of Epictetus and Montaigne are taken to represent philosophy, respectively mankind. For Pascal, only faith can stop us from contemplating our weaknesses, as Montaigne did, and only grace can allow us to realize Epictetus' "vain and presumptuous" ideals.(****) I find this little addition to the edition to be of questionable suitability.
(*) When they translated Epictetus, the monks freely made substitutions (like the disciple Paul for Socrates) and chose wording which changed the content. In fact, I have an English translation from the beginning of the 20th century which makes Epictetus sound like he wrote Christian tracts...
(**) I see that the Oxford classics series is coming out with a new translation of Epictetus in the Spring of 2014. I'm looking forward to it, because the other translations I have read in that series have been quite good and stripped of all the veneer that was smeared onto them earlier.
(***) Stoicism has many commonalities with Buddhism. In fact, at the beginning of the 17th century the Portuguese priest Matteo Ricci translated some of Epictetus into Chinese, because he felt they would recognize some of their own views. This was designed to gain their confidence, preliminary to pressing translations of the Bible onto them.
(****) In my opinion, and to put the matter with all due decorum, Pascal can stuff himself.
Note: If you care to know what star rating I give this book, please see my blog at
http://leopard.booklikes.com/post/641...
Epictetus (c. 60 - c. 125 CE), whose name literally meant "bought", was a Greek born in what is now western Turkey and became, we know not how, a slave in Rome. His last master, himself a freedman, allowed him to attend the lectures of the Roman Stoic philosopher C. Musonius Rufus and eventually freed him. Epictetus taught philosophy in Rome until Emperor Domitian banned all philosophers from Rome. He moved to Nicopolis in Epirus and started a school of his own, where he remained until his death, despite Marcus Aurelius' requests that he return to Rome.
Epictetus was a philosopher in the then already very old tradition called Stoicism, begun by Zeno in the 5th century BCE, and, according to those much more expert in the Stoic literature than I, was not himself a creative thinker. However, he knew the tradition well and adopted a tone and style of presentation which has appealed for nearly 2,000 years. Epictetus did not, in fact, write "his" books; they were written down by his student and future well known historian, Arrian. It is of interest to note that those who can read the original Greek report that the language used in the books attributed by Arrian to Epictetus is quite different from that used by Arrian in his own books, a good indication that Arrian might be reporting faithfully what Epictetus actually said.
Not all of these writings have survived, but, unlike the founders of the Stoic tradition - Zeno, Cleanthus (Cleanthes), Chrysippus - of whose extensive writings almost nothing has survived, we do have a few hundred pages of these reports on the lectures and discussions of Epictetus.
The founders of Stoicism were very interested in physics, metaphysics and logic, but there is little to none of that in Epictetus. He seems to be almost exclusively concerned with ethics, with what is the correct way to live, what are the correct values in life. And because he was co-opted by the Roman Catholic Church and generations of the oligarchy in Europe and America, reading Epictetus can arouse some very distasteful associations in one's mind.(*) So, above all, be careful of the translation you read.(**) Also, beware something called The Golden Sayings of Epictetus; that appears to be a cherry-picking of Epictetus made for the above-mentioned clientele.
In this book we have a recent translation into French of the Manual (also known as the Enchiridion) and excerpts from the Discourses (and a little extra, discussed below). The Manual is exactly what the title suggests - a short summary of Stoic dogmas with an admixture of advice and admonishments.
A central Stoic dogma: 1. There is a distinction between that which depends solely on us (that which is solely within our power to affect) and the rest. And precious little is on this side of the line; even one's body is on the other side of the line. 2. Don't be concerned with anything which lies on the other side of the line. Only that which lies on this side of the distinction matters and should occupy us.
"Quant au désir, pour le moment, supprime-le complètement."
(As for desire, for the moment, suppress it completely.) This is because that which one desires lies on the other side of the line. But even those things on this side of the line, such as urges, likes and dislikes, follow them only lightly, nonsystematically, without excessive effort. All attachments to objects, people, ambitions, etc. should not be taken as essential or important. In fact, one must constantly remind oneself that they "do not depend upon us," they are outside of our control, and therefore should be taken or left as they come and go.(***)
Another central, but related dogma: "Ce qui tourmente les hommes, ce n'est pas la réalité mais les opinions qu'ils s'en font." (That which torments men is not reality but the opinions they make of it for themselves.) Our opinions do depend on us; we may change them as we will. Hence, if one feels torment, change your opinion so that you no longer do so. Epictetus grants, somewhat indirectly, that this may well be very difficult to carry out, which is why this manual repeatedly offers various concrete ways to develop this ability to become unattached.
Another central, but related dogma: "N'attends pas que les événements arrivent comme tu le souhaites; décide de vouloir ce qui arrive et tu seras heureux." (Do not expect that events will occur as you wish; decide to want whatever happens and you will be happy.) Again, not at all easy to do. Hidden within these maxims is the prospect of an enormous mental and spiritual effort.
These are but a few samples of Stoic lore culled from the Manual. Stoicism has always posed the same challenge and exerted the same attraction upon me as Buddhism has.
The Discourses, of which only about half has survived to our day, present in a very unorganized, non-uniform and sometimes repetitive manner Epictetus' thoughts on many matters. These are reports of lectures and conversations. They are not all of equal quality, but altogether I find them to be very interesting. I intend to write a review of another edition I have of the complete (with the above mentioned proviso) Discourses, so I won't expand upon them here.
The little extra "treat" in this particular edition is Blaise Pascal's "demonstration" that philosophy is sorely insufficient, as is man, and both badly need faith in the Christian God. In this argument the books of Epictetus and Montaigne are taken to represent philosophy, respectively mankind. For Pascal, only faith can stop us from contemplating our weaknesses, as Montaigne did, and only grace can allow us to realize Epictetus' "vain and presumptuous" ideals.(****) I find this little addition to the edition to be of questionable suitability.
(*) When they translated Epictetus, the monks freely made substitutions (like the disciple Paul for Socrates) and chose wording which changed the content. In fact, I have an English translation from the beginning of the 20th century which makes Epictetus sound like he wrote Christian tracts...
(**) I see that the Oxford classics series is coming out with a new translation of Epictetus in the Spring of 2014. I'm looking forward to it, because the other translations I have read in that series have been quite good and stripped of all the veneer that was smeared onto them earlier.
(***) Stoicism has many commonalities with Buddhism. In fact, at the beginning of the 17th century the Portuguese priest Matteo Ricci translated some of Epictetus into Chinese, because he felt they would recognize some of their own views. This was designed to gain their confidence, preliminary to pressing translations of the Bible onto them.
(****) In my opinion, and to put the matter with all due decorum, Pascal can stuff himself.
Note: If you care to know what star rating I give this book, please see my blog at
http://leopard.booklikes.com/post/641...
January 15, 2023
Dans des instants où j'ai eu un manque de confiance en moi... Ce livre a su m'apporter réconfort en me rappelant ce qui doit être important pour moi : ce qui dépend de moi. Certes les stoïciens ont une vision assez particulière, mais je mets toujours Epictete sur un autre niveau, j' aime bien sa manière de nous expliquer, parfois je me retrouve à relire encore et encore un passage... Je préfère nettement le style d'Epictete à celui de Platon, j'aime aussi son passé, qui nous fait nous demander à comment il en est arrivé là...
Je mets pas la note maximale à ce livre pour la simple et bonne raison qu'il y a des aspects, des visions qui me font tiquer, bien évidemment ayez conscience que lui et nous ne sommes pas du même monde.
Mon conseil d'encouragement pour ce livre est :
Si vous avez besoin de faire une introspection, lire ce livre peut vous permettre certains déclics.
Je mets pas la note maximale à ce livre pour la simple et bonne raison qu'il y a des aspects, des visions qui me font tiquer, bien évidemment ayez conscience que lui et nous ne sommes pas du même monde.
Mon conseil d'encouragement pour ce livre est :
Si vous avez besoin de faire une introspection, lire ce livre peut vous permettre certains déclics.
December 13, 2023
Un livre divisé en 3 parties : une partie Manuel, une partie Entretiens et une partie Entretiens avec Pascal.
Je l’ai terminé dans le train et je suis restée là, bouche ouverte, ébahie. C’est le premier livre qui m’a vraiment fait cet effet, l’effet que ma vie et ma perception du monde sont totalement biaisées, que rien ne vaut la peine de se sentir de cette manière quand peu de choses dépendent de soi.
Première approche du stoïcisme, en espérant que ça ne soit pas la dernière.
Je le relis encore régulièrement, pour bien m’imprégner des leçons et en ressortir différente à chaque fois.
Mon livre favori et de loin.
Je l’ai terminé dans le train et je suis restée là, bouche ouverte, ébahie. C’est le premier livre qui m’a vraiment fait cet effet, l’effet que ma vie et ma perception du monde sont totalement biaisées, que rien ne vaut la peine de se sentir de cette manière quand peu de choses dépendent de soi.
Première approche du stoïcisme, en espérant que ça ne soit pas la dernière.
Je le relis encore régulièrement, pour bien m’imprégner des leçons et en ressortir différente à chaque fois.
Mon livre favori et de loin.
December 27, 2023
Lecture assez ardue qui tente de nous expliquer l'essence du stoïcisme.
February 17, 2022
C'est très bien, c'est toujours avec profit qu'on lit les stoïciens. Mais enfin convenons que tout ce livre est un peu contenu dans son titre : il faut identifier ce qui dépend de nous (nos pensées, notre âme...), et ne rendre notre bonheur dépendant que de cela, en se détachant de ce qui ne dépend pas de nous (la richesse, la santé, les faveurs du prince ou de la foule). Et diverses variations sur le thème : il faut obéïr au tyran sur ce qu'il demande et ce sur quoi il est dans son fort, ne pas plier en revanche sur notre for intérieur. Et encore : les choses ne sont pas intrinsèquement bonnes ou mauvaises, c'est notre jugement (lequel dépend de nous) qui les rend telles. La maladie peut être l'occasion de fortifier son âme ; un voisin pénible, d'augmenter sa patience, etc. Tout cela très bien mais il y en a plus dans Sénèque. Brillant entretien, à la fin, entre Pascal et M. de Saci, variations d'un esprit philosophe et d'un esprit religieux autour des lectures d'Epictète et de Montaigne.
August 4, 2022
Je dirais que c'est le livre à lire actuellement.
Hormis quelques exemples liés à une culture différente de la nôtre, ce livre et un testament. Il est d'autant plus vivifiant si on s'y reconnaît.
Hormis quelques exemples liés à une culture différente de la nôtre, ce livre et un testament. Il est d'autant plus vivifiant si on s'y reconnaît.
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