The Road Out of Hell: Sanford Clark and the True Story of the Wineville Murders

by Anthony Flacco

"And you wonder: How the hell did this guy go on to be a loving father and grandfather? How did he bury all that crap? That's a story in itself." -- Clint Eastwood, director: The Changeling

The film story of young Sanford Clark and his forced participation in the Wineville Murders was covered in Clint Eastwood's movie, "The Changeling," but for answers to the questions Eastwood posed after completing the project, turn to the true story of the Wineville murders: Anthony Flacco's The Road Out Of Hell. The hell part isn't what makes the story important; it's the road out that does.

From 1926 to 1928, Gordon Stewart Northcott committed at least 20 murders on a chicken ranch outside of Los Angeles. His nephew, Sanford Clark, was held captive there from the age of 13 to 15, and was the sole surviving victim of the killing spree. Here, acclaimed crime writer Anthony Flacco—using never-before-heard information from Sanford’s son Jerry Clark—tells the real story behind the case that riveted the nation.

Forced by Northcott to take part in the murders, Sanford carried tremendous guilt all his life. Yet despite his youth and the trauma, he helped gain some justice for the dead and their families by testifying at Northcott’s trial–which led to his conviction and execution. It was a shocking story, but perhaps the most shocking part of all is the extraordinarily ordinary life Clark went on to live as a decorated WWII vet, a devoted husband of 55 years, a loving father, and a productive citizen.

In dramatizing one of the darkest cases in American crime, Flacco constructs a riveting psychological drama about how Sanford was able to detoxify himself from the evil he’d encountered, offering the ultimately redemptive story of one man’s remarkable ability to survive a nightmare and emerge intact.

Genres: True Crime, Nonfiction, Crime, History, Biography, Horror, Memoir

244 pages, ebook

First published January 1, 2009

About the author

Anthony’s background as a trained stage actor with over 2,000 performances under his Actors Equity membership provides the primary basis for his critically acclaimed ability to empathize with a wide cross-section of personalities. His screenwriting experience is also of great use in telling narrative stories that are visually compelling, whether for the “screen” of a reader’s imagination or the screen of a theatre or at home.

He was selected for the prestigious American Film Institute fellowship in Screenwriting, and received his MFA in writing there in 1990 after winning AFI’s Paramount Studios Fellowship Award for his script, The Frog's Legacy. He was then selected out of 2,000 entrants for the Walt Disney Studios Screenwriting Fellowship, and spent a year writing for the Touchstone Pictures division.

His first nonfiction book, A Checklist for Murder, was acquired in auction by Dell Books as a mass market paperback and turned in solid sales. Anthony adapted his book as a two-hour television movie script and sold it to NBC Studios for a movie of the week. For the next several years, he worked as a freelance script doctor and story editor.

Anthony was hired by the Discovery Channel to write a two-hour documentary entitled Deadly Spree, based on a true story. His true crime writing was also featured on a one-hour episode of The Prosecutors for Court TV.

Anthony served as a national Judge for the Illinois Arts Council, writing individual evaluations for over 100 screenplays for their 2003 Writing Awards. His screenplay, Tesla’s Best Secret, was a finalist in the Alfred Sloan Fellowship for Sundance.

In addition to his own writing, Anthony has served as a freelance editor for books and book proposals that have recently sold to Hay House, Vanderwyck & Burnham, Rodale Press, and Lyons Press. He has also written book proposals for other authors who have gone on to garner publication contracts with Rodale Press, Random House, and St. Martin’s Press.

His nonfiction book Tiny Dancer St. Martin’s Press was selected by Reader’s Digest as their Editor’s Choice for August, 2005 -- their 1,000th Commemorative Issue. The book has been internationally acclaimed, and as of 2007, received Best Seller status in Italy. Kansas City Star named Tiny Dancer “one of the 100 Most Noteworthy Books of 2005.”

Anthony also edited the first two manuscripts for a new series of humorous books written by gay and straight couples, called E-Musings, which have sold to Marabout for French translation.

Anthony’s first two novels of historical fiction are from Mortalis Books at Ballantine/Random House. The first, The Last Nightingale, was released in June of 2007, with the second, The Hidden Man, published in June of 2008.

An experienced public speaker, Anthony frequently gives seminars on crime writing (brief syllabus available). He is a featured speaker on writing for writers conferences and clubs.

Reviews

[Paul Brandel · Rating 5 out of 5]

I've noticed some folks here on goodreads didn't enjoy this book.
It's not any easy nor enjoyable read,far from it! But the fact that
this kid could go through so much with his truly evil uncle,including
being raped and molested.But STILL grow up to be a fine upstanding
man and husband is REMARKABLE! Too bad I can't give this book
more than 5 stars.

[Carlos · Rating 4 out of 5]

This was such a tough book to read , not because it was badly written but because of its subject matter. The Wineville murders were unknown to me before I read this book, it is unbelievable to be able to comprehend how much suffering this guy went through at the hand of his uncle . This is a biography more or less and trigger warning (the first 100 pages will be very hardcore). If you want to read more about crime and/or redemption stories...this is the book for you. Slow reading after the first 100 pages .

[Leslie]

The crimes committed by Gordon Northcott in Wineville, California were heinous enough for the city to later change its name to Mira Loma. That’s saying something right there. This book was insane. It read like fiction and it was easy to forget that it wasn’t. I wanted it to be fiction. Sanford Clark was only 13 when his uncle Gordon took him with him from Canada to Wineville, a small town outside of Los Angeles. Sanford’s mom allowed it and his Dad didn’t try hard to stop it. So off he goes with his uncle who had just two years ago, left Canada due to neighbors complaints about his contact with their children. The uncle starts up a chicken farm as a cover for his activities. Things go bad quickly for Sanford. His uncle is abusive, physically and sexually. The only thing that stops the abuse brings Sanford little relief for when he is left alone, it means his uncle has found someone else to torture. I won’t give anymore details but this is one twisted tale. I haven’t rated this yet and don’t know that I will. I often have a hard time rating true crime.

[Jack · Rating 5 out of 5]

This was such an upsetting read. Admittedly, before picking up a copy, I knew nothing about the Wineville Chicken Ranch murders. After reading this I only wish I stayed ignorant. What Sanford Clark went through was beyond horrible. 50 pages in I was ready to vomit I was so upset. The suspense in the final 5 chapters was enough to reel me in. The end was heart wrenching. I need a serotonin boost after this.

[Michelle · Rating 4 out of 5]

"I have never read a book like this in my life. When I finished, I wanted to crawl into a ball and sob but also wanted to throw up at the thought of everything that little boy had to suffer. I'm still shaken up by the book that my stomach is still churning several hours after finishing, but I wanted to write this review while my feelings were so raw. [return:][return:][return:]Unfortunately, I had no idea what the Wineville murders were. My knowledge of them unfolded only as I kept turning the page. My horror at Sanford's story increased from page to page, and yet I kept reading. I wanted to make sure that he survived, to find out how he was found, and to make sure that devil incarnate burned in hell for what he did to those boys. The need to make sure Sanford was okay kept me reading long after I knew I should have stopped. I don't do horror stories, and this was that much more horrific because it is a true one.[return:][return:][return:]Flacco does a tremendous job of presenting the story from Sanford's point of view. Visceral and haunting don't even begin to cover the adjectives to describe the book, while the emotions that run through the reader as Sanford struggles to assuage his guilt at the experiences his uncle forces him to have run the gamut from denial to horror and back again. The first-person narrative makes the story that much more powerful. Thankfully, just at the point where the reader cannot possibly take any more evil, Flacco transfers to a third-person narrative and describes Sanford's rescue and recovery. Such a hellish book ends on a note of hope that someone so abused that he feels guilty about what he was forced to do can lead a life of normalcy and become a well-beloved model citizen. Sanford's redemption proves that there is still good in the world even after the reader questions this very idea in the beginning. [return:][return:][return:]I received this book as part of the BBAW giveaway from Sterling Publishing. I am glad I read it but I can't help but feel that I lost just a bit of my naivete at learning the full story of what went on in Wineville, California in the 1920s. It is a story that is going to haunt my dreams for a long time to come."

[Charmaine Stephens · Rating 5 out of 5]

Wow this book takes you on such a journey! Its definitely off the track from my normal smut reading. It's not pretty or pleasant and this doesn’t end on quite a happy note. But it’s definitely worth the read. What intrigued me to read this to begin with was recently I’ve been watching this great show “American Horror Story Hotel” and couple weeks ago they had an episode that featured The WineVille Chicken coop Murders.


At first the story was so horrific that I thought this had to be made up fictionalized. But when I found out it was actually real. It blows my mind! And broke my heart at the same time. There’s also a movie “The Changeling” that shows this story too but I don’t think it focuses as much as it should on the murders.


Stewart Norcott is one of the sickest, evil, disgusting, psychopaths I’ve ever read or heard about. I don’t know what got him to be the evil way he is. But he is a complete evil sadistic bastard. And he’s disgusting for what he did to so many poor innocent children in the early 1920s. I think he deserved everything and more that he received. There’s no punishment harsh enough for him. Or that could replace all the lives lost. I felt no sympathy or remorse for him whatsoever. He has no redeeming qualities. Just pure evil raping killer bastard. Fuck you Stewart!! FUCK YOU!






My heart went out to Sanford Clark the young kid that had to be tortured through all of this. Being sent to live with his uncle Stewart. Having no idea his life will change forever once he gets to that chicken ranch. And breaks my heart how I think in some sad twisted way he partially blames himself. But I don’t think he’s to blame at all here. Somewhere along the way he taught himself how to survive as best as he could on that horrible murder ranch. It was either help kill or be killed. I’m glad he came out of it somewhat unscathed but what happened to him will always have a bit of an effect on his psyche. I think that’s completely normal experiencing something that tragic.




All in all I enjoyed this book very much. It was well told and made you feel like you were there and the actual pictures of some places and people included in here made it even more chillingly real. Last but certainly not least I personally want to say RIP to all the innocent children victims lives lost. You will never be forgotten. Rest in peace sweet angels.

[britt_brooke · Rating 3 out of 5]

Horrific story. As a fairly avid true crime reader, I was not previously aware of the 1920s Wineville, CA Murders. The content was worthwhile, but I was not a fan of this first-person nonfiction narrative format. Additionally, the audio voice for Northcott was creepy as hell. It felt sensationalized, which IMO, was all wrong.

Thank you, NetGalley for the late 2025 audio ARC (print pubbed in 2009).

[Dan · Rating 2 out of 5]

Amateurish and Banal

Really it's tragic what happened for Sanford. And his Uncle was a horrible murder rapist who deserved to die. But who were
All these people who have this thing a 5/5. It honestly reads like a combination of of a Dick and Jane book and and some sort of genealogy document for Falco's family. Really after the crimes, no one cares if he puttered around the garden and enjoyed volunteer work. I couldn't skim fast enough by the end as an amateurish writing style becomes downright boring. I fought hard to give it a 2. Worst piece of carp I've read all year.

[colleen · Rating 4 out of 5]

In 1926, at thirteen years of age, Sanford Clark was given away by his mother to his uncle, Gordon Stewart Northcott. Northcott took the boy from Canada and illegally brought him into the United States where he was used as slave labor on a chicken ranch and sexually abused. Northcott also brought other boys to the chicken ranch to sexually abuse and murder. He forced Sanford to help him dispose of some of the boys. He used that and the fact that the boy was in the US illegally to keep Sanford from reporting Northcott for his crimes. While Sanford was held captive on the chicken ranch he was not allowed to go to school or play with local children. His only escape was in reading books in secret.

The abuse finally ended when a visit from Sanford's sister scared Northcott into fleeing. Once the police found out about the murders, they captured Northcott and after his trial he was executed. Sanford was sent to Whittier Boys School and then released at age seventeen. He went back to Canada and lived a normal life.

Due to the title, I expected more of the book to be about Sanford's life after his uncle was caught, but the bulk of the book deals with his time spent with his uncle on the chicken ranch. I was quite impressed that Sanford managed to make a good life for himself despite all he had gone through. One often hears about criminals claiming that childhood abuse is the reason why they are criminals. Sanford proves that this does not have to be true. It depends on the person. He was an amazing person to be able to have such a good productive life after the torture and abuse he endured.

Flacco writes a riveting recounting of the horrors endured by Sanford Clark as his uncle's captive and his recovery and adult life. It is also an uplifing tale in that Sanford had the strength of character to shape his own life rather than allow his uncle's abuses to shape him. A well written book, I would recommend this to anyone who enjoys reading true crime books.

[♥ Marlene♥ · Rating 4 out of 5]

An Unexpected good read!

I had this book on my kindle and it just said The Road out of Hell. I did notice that people who had read it liked it but that was all I knew.

So I did not know it was about the Wineville Murders. I consider myself quite knowledgeable about true crime books but I had not heard about this crime.
(To be honest I still have to check google to find out more. I of course did google but only searched the images, to worried I would lean the outcome.)

Anyway so I did not know where this book was going. Back in the days I could "enjoy" a good abuse story but over the last few years I cannot read those books anymore. It must have been the writing that made me keep reading because if I read a book and the abuse takes too long and I can't stand it anymore, I quit.


So glad I did not quit because it was such a good read. Now I must warn you do not read this book before you go to sleep because that was what I did and my heart started to race and my eyes were like an owl.


Let me tell you, I could not stop reading and I think it was about 02.am that I finished reading.

Now I am off to google. 4.5 stars

[Sharon · Rating 5 out of 5]

Immediate response notes - Review proper to follow:

I cannot remember the last time I cried whilst reading a book. I've cried watching films and documentaries because they present animated imagery to see. Books are but words only...unless they are so powerful that they embed themselves into your being and you cannot stop the emotions overflowing, nor the horror of imagining what must have befell the poor unfortunates.

This account is written with compassion and without self pity or sentimentally and is a tribute to all the victims in this case.

[Amanda · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is a story that will stay with you and rip your heart out. The content is not an easy read by any means. The accounts recalled here are graphic and harrowing. I wanted to reach into this book so many times to just embrace Sanford and shield him from the terrors he faced. Ultimately this book is a testament of the triumph of the human spirit in the face of pure evil.

[Alesha Cary · Rating 5 out of 5]

I don't hand out a lot of five star ratings. A book has to be more than be well-written for that - actually that's not even the highest criterion. For a five star rating, a book must speak to me. This one does.

I won't summarize. There are many reviews and reviewers that have done that. I will simply give you three reasons you need to read this book.

1) You will close it knowing without a doubt that evil exists, and that it cannot be satiated with kindness. Gordon Stewart Northcutt makes Jeffrey Dahmer look mild by comparison.

2) You will close this book feeling the fathomable pain and guilt of Sanford Clark, and you will also understand that he was an incredible husband and father.


3) You will close this book knowing that good triumphs over evil, when we let it. Our society doesn't like to think evil exists: it's too uncomfortable a concept, I suppose. It destroys the false safety we feel. We prefer to think that all monsters are created by circumstance and can be excused for that reason.

Sanford Clark had every excuse in the world to become a monster. Narcissistic mother, weak father, abusive and psychotic grandmother, and I'm not sure there are adequate adjectives to describe his uncle... But he didn't become a monster: he became a man who loved (REALLY loved) his wife. He became a man who loved children that were his, without biology. He became a hero.

The only tragedy is that this is a small footnote to Northcott, or *The Changling.*. THIS is the real story. And Sanford Clark has joined my list of heroes, and my list of the greatest men who ever did what we do often hear is impossible: conquered evil, beat the odds.

[Tim Nordstrom · Rating 2 out of 5]

I had a hard time getting into this book because of the writing style. Based on the reviews it seemed to work for many readers, but I didn't care for it. It reads more like a fictional novel than a non-fiction account because the authors embellish what is known with a lot of fictional dialog and detail, which they mention in the Preface. As much as the "speculation and dramatization" may be "bounded by the known facts..." and the "the manner of each character's speech" may be "taken from transcriptions of their spoken words," I would've preferred a straight factual telling of what happened without made-up dialog and drama. The story -- both its horrific nature and its story of redemption -- would have easily stood on its own. Moreover, the actual writing of the dialog, drama, etc. was awkward and hard to read, for me.

So again -- this seems to work for a lot of readers, but it might be smart to read a sample before buying, since it is quite different from a traditional non-fiction account.

[Rita · Rating 5 out of 5]

Everytime I read these evil true crime stories about people, I come away from it thinking that this is the worst I have ever read. The Road Out Of Hell was the most EVIL of books and what makes it worse is that it was committed by a trusted family member on a child.

Anthony Flacco is indeed a very unique writer of true crime because his book grabbed me right at the first page. As I continued down this path about a diabolical monster preying on children, this author told a riveting psychological drama as it unfolded revealing just how dysfunctional this family became and the horror the victims must have suffered.

I can only hope that victims such as these who suffer guilt and shame may find their guardian angels like this young man's story. I highly recommend this book and commend the author for serving this one straight from the heart. 5 Stars

[Scoop Erickson · Rating 5 out of 5]

The emotional honesty of this book is almost too much to bear at times. It horrified me and broke my heart. The movie, The Changeling, starring Angelina Jolie, was based on this murder case. This book tells the story of the psychotic murderer's only witness, the young nephew he forced into his personal hell. The boy not only survived, but lived a long, good, and productive life. Tormented by guilt, flashbacks, brutal migraines for the rest of his life, he sought comfort and redemption in the pursuit of normality, love and grace towards others. Not light reading by any stretch of the imagination, but impossible to put down.

[Daphne Vogel · Rating 4 out of 5]

Sanford's development is bittersweet, because he clearly could never forgive himself for his inability to save more people, or for what he was forced to do on that ranch. He was never able to entirely shake that line his uncle sold him about guilt. But I'm glad an entire third of the book is dedicated to his life after escaping. Uncle Stewart's is a truly disturbing account balanced only by Sanford's efforts, his constant fight to not succumb, a great need to be productive and do good, to raise a loving family, and help his community, all while brutally scarred both emotionally and physically by what he had to suffer in his two years on that ranch.

This book is a difficult look at what can happen when you have not only a serial killer, but a family that enables that serial killer, even to the point of aiding and abetting. That was almost more shocking than the killer himself. Sanford was an innocent thrown willingly to the lions by a knowing mother who'd rather lose her least favorite child. Words cannot describe how cheated I feel by the fact she faced no charges. And this family was clearly riddled with a deficiency of conscience: the mother killed Walter Collins with an axe to help her son, her son killed at least twenty children, her daughter knowingly gave him another child to rape and torture. It's understandable, if regrettable, that this predisposition would be another concern that plagued Sanford.

If you're looking for the account of someone who can experience the depths of hell and still walk out believing there's good in the world, then this book's for you.

[Michael · Rating 5 out of 5]

The true story of Stanford Clark is horrific and remarkable!!! Any person that blames a "rough" childhood for the wrong doings of their adulthood may feel a bit wimpy after reading this book! This young man endured a evil few could ever imagine. I don't want to give any of this book away... just trust me.... READ IT!!! An incredible story that will give you strength. This kid is a inspiration to anyone that has battled through the toughest adversity. I picked this book out by chance.... turned out to be very lucky. ANYONE should find this book amazing. But I will warn you. Some of it is a little tough to read. Especially if you have kids.

[SouthWestZippy · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is the True Crime story of the Wineville Murders that occurred in the late 1920's. I just could not put this book down. Parts of this book left me in a state of disbelief that a monster like Gordon Stewart Northcott got away with what he was doing for so long. Anthony Flacco did a wonderful job of pulling you into Sanford Clark's, a innocent boy,horrific account of survival. I also like the added chapters of what happen to Sanford as he grew up and had a family of his own. Must warn others it is at times VERY graphic with the details of the murders and abuse.

[Rachel · Rating 2 out of 5]

This reads like a novel--I mean it really reads like a novel. There's symbolic language ahoy, dialogue, memories--it's an omniscient true crime book and that's just not possible? More than anything, this reminded me of a ghost-written novelization of someone's dad's memoirs. It's a remarkable story, but it's less true crime, more murder mystery.

But! This is a zippy read and Sanford Clark deserves to be recognized for his incredible recovery. This was the most brutal book I've read since 2015's "A Little Life" but this actually genuinely happened. Yikes.

[Ronna · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is a hard book to rate. Writing 5 stars. The subject matter is very disturbing. I read a lot of serial killer type books, but this one is one of the most upsetting, likely because almost all the victims were children. It IS a very good read, if you can withstand what the monster did to his victims, including his own nephew. The story of Sanford's reintegration to society and living an exemplary life, after being rescued, was powerful. Picked it because of the connection to my hometown (Saskatoon, Canada).

[Kristyn · Rating 3 out of 5]

This book isn't exactly a factual telling of what happened on the Wineville Chicken Ranch. I have learned more details about this case by reading about it on the internet. I feel that Stewart's brutality was actually glossed over a bit and I didn't learn much about the victims at all. There was no mention of how many victims there were thought to be or anything like that. Maybe I'm a complete weirdo for wanting the details, but I didn't feel there were enough here to truly understand how horrific Stewart actually was.

[Fishface · Rating 5 out of 5]

The victim's side of the story that you remember from "Nothing Is Strange With You," or the movie version which was released as "the Changeling." the life, crimes and eventual escape of Sanford Clarj from the scene of the Wineville murders and his supposedly normal life afterwards -- if you call a life of self-loathing and self-torture normal. Nobody should ever have to go through this.

[Sharon · Rating 3 out of 5]

The only reason I wanted to read this book is because many people claimed this was the scariest book they had ever read. The first half of it sure lived up to the hype. I almost did not get past the second chapter because the graphic details made me feel nauseous. The last half of the book was more inspiring. If this story is ever adapted into a film, I am going to skip it.

[Ruth · Rating 4 out of 5]

Harrowing, gripping and redemptive.

[Pooja Peravali · Rating 4 out of 5]

When Sanford Clark is sent to California to help his sinister uncle run a chicken farm, he expects something bad, but he doesn't yet know the depths of depravity within Gordon Stewart Northcott.

This is a narrative nonfiction take on the Wineville Chicken Coop Murders, narrated by the forced accomplice in the crimes - teenage Sanford, whose uncle is the serial killer. I knew a bit about the case before but the author really brought it to life, emphasizing Sanford's helplessness and his sister Jessie's bravery. This is quite a sad read, especially in regards to Sanford's shame about being abused and unable to help the children his uncle murders.

The end did trail off a little bit, however - the author tries to explain to us how Sanford was able to rebuild after his experiences and lead a long and fulfilling life, but after the detail of his experiences on the ranch this section sort of blips by, not providing the in depth look I had been expecting.

[Richard Muro · Rating 5 out of 5]

Although the authors should be applauded as this true story occurred between 1926 and 1928 and a murderer named Gordon Stewart Northcott age 19 at the time who moved to California from Canada.

It was understood why Wineville changed its towns name to Mira Loma on November 1st 1928 due to the negative publicity surrounding the murders ….

Difficult read for me….

[Bettye McKee · Rating 5 out of 5]

Faint-hearted need not apply

I had to take lengthy breaks while reading this book. It was so difficult to come to terms with the fact that this is a true story. Although much has been written about the Wineville murders, I don't believe the full story has been told before.

When Sanford Clark was 13 years of age, his mother, Winifred Clark, gave him to her brother, Gordon Stewart Northcott. Uncle Stewart took him from his home in Saskatoon to an area near Los Angeles where Sanford was raped, beaten, starved, and forced to do all the work of building a house and chicken farm. He was responsible for maintaining and running the chicken farm for the benefit of Stewart and his mother.

Stewart Northcott was an evil young man who kidnapped, raped (repeatedly, usually for a week), and murdered many young boys and forced Sanford to participate in the killings, to dig graves, to carry food to the boys while they were caged in chicken coops. Sanford was Stewart's captive for two endless years, always knowing that Stewart would also kill him the minute he became a liability.

Anthony Flacco has gifted his readers with the truth of this highly dysfunctional family who aided Stewart in his terrible crimes and protected him. Along with Sanford's adopted son, through memories, documents, interviews and records, the story has been pieced together to bring it into the light.

Includes photos.

10

[Sarah · Rating 5 out of 5]

I picked this book up at a library sale, not knowing what it was about, except that it was a True Crime novel, and I'm obsessed with True Crime. I'm so glad I chose this book. It was so heart breaking, disgusting, and absolutely awful to read about the heinous crimes of torture, rape, and murder that Sanford's uncle committed. I cried multiple times throughout this novel. Reading that Sanford survived that Hell farm and lived an honorable life made me truly happy, and made that awful story worth it. The writing was spectacular, and I felt like I was trapped in Hell along with Sandford and those poor boys. Honestly, this is a must read, even though it's extremely tragic and disturbing.

[Karen · Rating 4 out of 5]

What could have been a horrible, depressing, soul-crushing story had a fairly happy ending. How such a tortured and tormented little boy could turn out to be such a good, kind, gentle man is a miracle in itself. I would have liked a bit more background on Walter Colllins’ mother and the Winslow brothers’ families and what they were doing at this time. But I understand it wasn’t their story.