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The Prince of Nothing #2
The Warrior Prophet
"Book Two of The Prince of Nothing" finds the Holy War continuing its inexorable march southward. But the suspicion begins to dawn that the real threat comes not from the infidel but from within...Steering souls through the subtleties of word and expression, Kellhus strives to extend his dominion over the Men of the Tusk. The sorcerer Achamian and his lover, Esmenet, submit entirely, only to have their faith - and their love - tested in unimaginable ways. Meanwhile, the warrior Cnaiur falls ever deeper into madness. Convinced that Kellhus will betray their pact to murder his father, Cnaiur turns to the agents of the Second Apocalypse and strikes an infernal bargain. The Holy War stands on a knife edge. If all is not to be lost, the great powers of the world will have to choose between their most desperate desires and the end of the world. Between hatred and hope. Between Anasurimbor Kellhus and the second apocalypse.
624 pages, Paperback
First published June 18, 2004
About the author
R. Scott Bakker
33 books2,307 followersRichard Scott Bakker, who writes as R. Scott Bakker and as Scott Bakker, is a novelist whose work is dominated by a large series informally known as the The Second Apocalypse which Bakker began developing whilst at college in the 1980s.
The series was originally planned to be a trilogy, with the first two books entitled The Prince of Nothing and The Aspect-Emperor. However, when Bakker began writing the series in the early 2000s, he found it necessary to split each of the three novels into its own sub-series to incorporate all of the characters, themes and ideas he wished to explore. Bakker originally conceived of seven books: a trilogy and two duologies. This later shifted to two trilogies, with the acknowledgement that the third series may yet also expand to a trilogy.
The Prince of Nothing trilogy was published between 2003 and 2006. It depicts the story of the Holy War launched by the Inrithi kingdoms against the heathen Fanim of the south to recover the holy city of Shimeh for the faithful. During the war, a man named Ansurimbor Kellhus emerges from obscurity to become an exceptionally powerful and influential figure, and it is discovered that the Consult, an alliance of forces united in their worship of the legendary No-God, a nihilistic force of destruction, are manipulating events to pave the way for the No-God's return to the mortal world.
The sequel series, The Aspect-Emperor trilogy, picks up the story twenty years later with Kellhus leading the Inrithi kingdoms in directly seeking out and confronting the Consult. The first novel in this new series is due for publication in 2009.
Whilst working on the Prince of Nothing series, Bakker was given a challenge by his wife to write a thriller. To answer this, he produced a science fiction thriller based around a serial killer who can control and influence the human mind. This book, Neuropath, was eventually published in 2008. Inspired, he wrote a second thriller titled The Disciple of the Dog in 2009.
The series was originally planned to be a trilogy, with the first two books entitled The Prince of Nothing and The Aspect-Emperor. However, when Bakker began writing the series in the early 2000s, he found it necessary to split each of the three novels into its own sub-series to incorporate all of the characters, themes and ideas he wished to explore. Bakker originally conceived of seven books: a trilogy and two duologies. This later shifted to two trilogies, with the acknowledgement that the third series may yet also expand to a trilogy.
The Prince of Nothing trilogy was published between 2003 and 2006. It depicts the story of the Holy War launched by the Inrithi kingdoms against the heathen Fanim of the south to recover the holy city of Shimeh for the faithful. During the war, a man named Ansurimbor Kellhus emerges from obscurity to become an exceptionally powerful and influential figure, and it is discovered that the Consult, an alliance of forces united in their worship of the legendary No-God, a nihilistic force of destruction, are manipulating events to pave the way for the No-God's return to the mortal world.
The sequel series, The Aspect-Emperor trilogy, picks up the story twenty years later with Kellhus leading the Inrithi kingdoms in directly seeking out and confronting the Consult. The first novel in this new series is due for publication in 2009.
Whilst working on the Prince of Nothing series, Bakker was given a challenge by his wife to write a thriller. To answer this, he produced a science fiction thriller based around a serial killer who can control and influence the human mind. This book, Neuropath, was eventually published in 2008. Inspired, he wrote a second thriller titled The Disciple of the Dog in 2009.
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May 19, 2024
Watch my video review by clicking here.
Books have no right being this spectacular. Amazing in literally every way.
Books have no right being this spectacular. Amazing in literally every way.
July 22, 2022
*Finally found a copy of my deleted review for this one, here goes... I'll edit back to format whenever I get to re-read it again.
The Warrior Prophet
Khalid Muhammad Abdul-Mumin | May 16, 2022
A world painted so vivid, like brushstrokes of paint on canvas; characters so real they seem to live as people in your imagination.
In The Warrior Prophet, R. Scott Bakker continues the surrealistic epic begun in The Darkness That Comes Before, told in poignant prose reminiscent of a fever dream in the second installment of The Prince of Nothing series.
It becomes very clear from the beginning that the author has begun to expand his already diverse characters adding a certain thrill of perceiving events from a never before seen perspective like the Galeoth Prince Coithus Saubon and even giving more voice to frequently (and often not so) heard characters like Esmenet and Drusas Achamian.
The march for the fabled holy city of Shimeh and the Holy War continues, and evermore so subtly, he teases us with glimpses of the world before, the path taken by the ancients as they flee the No-God in the first apocalypse.
Anasûrimbor Kellhus continues to show the men he marches with awe, truth, and insight. At the same time, he uses his gift of words to subliminally indoctrinate and dominate, collecting men like one would baubles.
A continuation of fantastic history, lore, myth, philosophy, metaphysics, tragedy, and bloodshed, as glimpsed from the first book, coupled with amazing battle scenes poetically described. I can't sing praises enough for this series!
I highly recommend The Warrior Prophet- read it to believe!
The Warrior Prophet
Khalid Muhammad Abdul-Mumin | May 16, 2022
A world painted so vivid, like brushstrokes of paint on canvas; characters so real they seem to live as people in your imagination.
In The Warrior Prophet, R. Scott Bakker continues the surrealistic epic begun in The Darkness That Comes Before, told in poignant prose reminiscent of a fever dream in the second installment of The Prince of Nothing series.
It becomes very clear from the beginning that the author has begun to expand his already diverse characters adding a certain thrill of perceiving events from a never before seen perspective like the Galeoth Prince Coithus Saubon and even giving more voice to frequently (and often not so) heard characters like Esmenet and Drusas Achamian.
The march for the fabled holy city of Shimeh and the Holy War continues, and evermore so subtly, he teases us with glimpses of the world before, the path taken by the ancients as they flee the No-God in the first apocalypse.
Anasûrimbor Kellhus continues to show the men he marches with awe, truth, and insight. At the same time, he uses his gift of words to subliminally indoctrinate and dominate, collecting men like one would baubles.
A continuation of fantastic history, lore, myth, philosophy, metaphysics, tragedy, and bloodshed, as glimpsed from the first book, coupled with amazing battle scenes poetically described. I can't sing praises enough for this series!
I highly recommend The Warrior Prophet- read it to believe!
November 24, 2024
"Che cos'altro era un libro se non una lunga e consecutiva resa ai moti dell'anima di qualcun altro?"
Già dal primo romanzo ci si rende conto della qualità fuori dal comune di questa saga che focalizza la sua struttura narrativa sulla profonda introspezione, sull' accuratezza dell' ambientazione e sui temi proposti con un' abilità riscontrata solo nei grandi autori. E non mi limito al fantasy.
Anche in questo secondo romanzo la qualità generale non cambia e la trama entra nel vivo della Guerra Santa per conquistare la sacra Shimeh, tra enormi battaglie su campi sterminati, assedi e marce nel deserto implacabile, mentre si consumano i drammi nell' anima dei personaggi, tra contraddizioni e dubbi, differenze sociali e dogmi religiosi. Un viaggio che rivaleggia per intensità con la "catena dei cani" in Malazan.
"La guerra è intelletto. Disse il capo tribù scylvendi. Finché voi e la vostra gente insisterete a combatterla con il cuore, sarete condannati."
Il Nemico atavico è tornato ma assume forme che solo una mente "aperta" può scorgere. Il protagonista, Anasûrimbor Kellhus, è un uomo straordinario e misterioso che utilizza la sua intelligenza e la sua astuzia per manipolare gli eventi a proprio favore.
La presenza della magia è rara e paragonabile solo a quella devastante e mortale presente nella strepitosa e finora ineguagliata saga di Erikson, mio punto di riferimento per tutto ciò che di meglio il fantasy ha da offrire.
"La vendetta imperversò per le sale del complesso, come un Dio. E intonò il suo canto con la furia cieca di una bestia, separando le mura dalle fondamenta, soffiando il soffitto nel cielo, come se le opere dell'uomo fossero costruzioni di sabbia."
Un avviso riguarda le sorti delle due figure femminili che continuano ad essere vittime e subire abusi. Una scelta che, benché perfettamente in linea con la loro posizione sociale, una prostituta e una concubina, può risultare frustrante per alcuni lettori. Se non avete avuto problemi con le "Cronache del Ghiaccio e del Fuoco" allora va assolutamente letta.
Aggiungo anche una nota sullo stile e più precisamente su una caratteristica: i nomi e le lingue. Bakker propone, oltre ad una scrittura ricercata e una lettura estremamente filosofica e complessa, anche la scelta di nomi assolutamente impronunciabili e impossibili da ricordare. Sta di fatto che anche questa scelta rende unica e speciale quest' opera.
"E per tutti gli uomini e le donne nati nel mondo, due anime condividevano lo stesso corpo, lo stesso viso e gli stessi occhi. L'animale e l'intelletto. Tutti erano duplici. Difettivi."
---------------------------------
"What else was a book if not a long and consecutive surrender to the motions of someone else's soul?"
From the first novel, one realizes the extraordinary quality of this saga that focuses its narrative structure on deep introspection, on the accuracy of the setting and on the themes proposed with a skill found only in great authors. And I do not limit myself to fantasy.
Even in this second novel, the general quality does not change and the plot enters the heart of the Holy War to conquer the sacred Shimeh, between enormous battles on endless fields, marches in the implacable desert, while the dramas in the souls of the characters are consumed, between contradictions and destiny, different social customs and religious dogmas. A journey that rivals in intensity with the "chain of dogs" in Malazan.
"War is intellect," said the scylvendi chieftain. "As long as you and your people insist on fighting it with your heart, you will be doomed."
The ancient Enemy has returned but takes on forms that only an "open" mind can discern. The protagonist, Anasûrimbor Kellhus, is a mysterious man who uses his intelligence and cunning to manipulate events in his favor.
The use of magic is rare and comparable only to the devastating and deadly one present in the amazing and so far unmatched saga of Erikson, my point of reference for all the best that fantasy has to offer.
"Vengeance raged through the halls of the complex, like a God. And it intoned its song with the blind fury of a beast, separating the walls from the foundations, blowing the ceiling into the sky, as if the works of man were constructions of sand."
A warning concerns the fate of the two female figures who continue to be victims and suffer abuse. A choice that, although perfectly in line with their social position, a prostitute and a concubine, may be frustrating for some readers. If you have not had problems with "A Song of Ice and Fire" then it is absolutely worth reading.
I also add a note on style and more precisely on a characteristic: names and languages. Bakker proposes, in addition to a refined writing and an extremely philosophical and complex reading, also the choice of names that are absolutely unpronounceable and impossible to remember. The fact is that this choice also makes this work unique and special.
"And for all the men and women born into the world, two souls shared the same body, the same face and the same eyes. The animal and the intellect. All were double. Defective."
Già dal primo romanzo ci si rende conto della qualità fuori dal comune di questa saga che focalizza la sua struttura narrativa sulla profonda introspezione, sull' accuratezza dell' ambientazione e sui temi proposti con un' abilità riscontrata solo nei grandi autori. E non mi limito al fantasy.
Anche in questo secondo romanzo la qualità generale non cambia e la trama entra nel vivo della Guerra Santa per conquistare la sacra Shimeh, tra enormi battaglie su campi sterminati, assedi e marce nel deserto implacabile, mentre si consumano i drammi nell' anima dei personaggi, tra contraddizioni e dubbi, differenze sociali e dogmi religiosi. Un viaggio che rivaleggia per intensità con la "catena dei cani" in Malazan.
"La guerra è intelletto. Disse il capo tribù scylvendi. Finché voi e la vostra gente insisterete a combatterla con il cuore, sarete condannati."
Il Nemico atavico è tornato ma assume forme che solo una mente "aperta" può scorgere. Il protagonista, Anasûrimbor Kellhus, è un uomo straordinario e misterioso che utilizza la sua intelligenza e la sua astuzia per manipolare gli eventi a proprio favore.
La presenza della magia è rara e paragonabile solo a quella devastante e mortale presente nella strepitosa e finora ineguagliata saga di Erikson, mio punto di riferimento per tutto ciò che di meglio il fantasy ha da offrire.
"La vendetta imperversò per le sale del complesso, come un Dio. E intonò il suo canto con la furia cieca di una bestia, separando le mura dalle fondamenta, soffiando il soffitto nel cielo, come se le opere dell'uomo fossero costruzioni di sabbia."
Un avviso riguarda le sorti delle due figure femminili che continuano ad essere vittime e subire abusi. Una scelta che, benché perfettamente in linea con la loro posizione sociale, una prostituta e una concubina, può risultare frustrante per alcuni lettori. Se non avete avuto problemi con le "Cronache del Ghiaccio e del Fuoco" allora va assolutamente letta.
Aggiungo anche una nota sullo stile e più precisamente su una caratteristica: i nomi e le lingue. Bakker propone, oltre ad una scrittura ricercata e una lettura estremamente filosofica e complessa, anche la scelta di nomi assolutamente impronunciabili e impossibili da ricordare. Sta di fatto che anche questa scelta rende unica e speciale quest' opera.
"E per tutti gli uomini e le donne nati nel mondo, due anime condividevano lo stesso corpo, lo stesso viso e gli stessi occhi. L'animale e l'intelletto. Tutti erano duplici. Difettivi."
---------------------------------
"What else was a book if not a long and consecutive surrender to the motions of someone else's soul?"
From the first novel, one realizes the extraordinary quality of this saga that focuses its narrative structure on deep introspection, on the accuracy of the setting and on the themes proposed with a skill found only in great authors. And I do not limit myself to fantasy.
Even in this second novel, the general quality does not change and the plot enters the heart of the Holy War to conquer the sacred Shimeh, between enormous battles on endless fields, marches in the implacable desert, while the dramas in the souls of the characters are consumed, between contradictions and destiny, different social customs and religious dogmas. A journey that rivals in intensity with the "chain of dogs" in Malazan.
"War is intellect," said the scylvendi chieftain. "As long as you and your people insist on fighting it with your heart, you will be doomed."
The ancient Enemy has returned but takes on forms that only an "open" mind can discern. The protagonist, Anasûrimbor Kellhus, is a mysterious man who uses his intelligence and cunning to manipulate events in his favor.
The use of magic is rare and comparable only to the devastating and deadly one present in the amazing and so far unmatched saga of Erikson, my point of reference for all the best that fantasy has to offer.
"Vengeance raged through the halls of the complex, like a God. And it intoned its song with the blind fury of a beast, separating the walls from the foundations, blowing the ceiling into the sky, as if the works of man were constructions of sand."
A warning concerns the fate of the two female figures who continue to be victims and suffer abuse. A choice that, although perfectly in line with their social position, a prostitute and a concubine, may be frustrating for some readers. If you have not had problems with "A Song of Ice and Fire" then it is absolutely worth reading.
I also add a note on style and more precisely on a characteristic: names and languages. Bakker proposes, in addition to a refined writing and an extremely philosophical and complex reading, also the choice of names that are absolutely unpronounceable and impossible to remember. The fact is that this choice also makes this work unique and special.
"And for all the men and women born into the world, two souls shared the same body, the same face and the same eyes. The animal and the intellect. All were double. Defective."
October 23, 2013
This second volume of the "Prince of Nothing" trilogy is weaker than the first under every aspect.
First of all, the plot fails to build upon the excellent foundations set in "The Darkness that comes before" resulting unmemorable and entirely predictable.
If you've read the first volume then you already know everything that's going to happen here.
Second, the atmosphere.
Remember that awesome feel of brooding darkness with unseen demonic threats in the first book? GOOD! Hold tight to that memory because you'll find nothing of that here.
The dark feel is now SO dark and SO lacking depth as to be almost comical and the Consult and its agents are reduced to cartoon villains with a penchant for raping anything with a hole in it (because they're evil).
The narration entirely focuses on the Holy war, which after all the talk of demons and omens and Apocalypse feels horribly mundane.
And then the characters.
Oh, the characters.
The characters in this book almost make me cry at the wasted potential.
The Darkness that comes before introduced some very interesting characters: realistic, flawed and deep.
In "The warrior prophet" Bakker took and turned them in a bunch of weeping cardboard cutouts flatter than Serwe's EEG.
I'm assuming it was intentional because I just can't see how could someone so thoroughly ruin great characters such as Cnaiur an Kellhus by accident.
In the first book Kellhus was an awesome protagonist/villain. He was subtle, smart, devious as fuck and I loved his Pov chapters because of the insights on his complex lines of reasoning.
Now he's an obnoxious Gary Stu with multiple layers of plot armor that just steamrolls every opposition without breaking a sweat.
His manipulative skills get ridiculously overpowered beyond any logic, to the point of being able to cause mass allucinations and rewrite people's memory just by talking.
He's dying? That was his plan all along! *YAWN*
About half of the paragraphs are there only to allow various pov characters to remind you how awesome Kellhus is, how everybody loves Kellhus, how Kellhus is great at manipulating people and on and on and on.
At some point he actually abandons any pretence of subtlety and announces himself as the son of god or something.
Needless to say, all this gets old fast.
Really, really fast.
Cnaiur keeps spitting and weeping and... not much else really.
Esmenet gradually becomes another Kellhus-loving freak losing any hint of personality she had.
Serwe... well Serwe was already completely braindead in the first book and nothing changed on that part.
Achamian is the only one that's still vaguely interesting, except when he's fawning over Kellhus's awesome awesomeness (which is pretty much all the time).
The battles are a borefest, little more than endless lists of irrelevant names. I actually had to force myself thrugh a couple of them and still I kept getting distracted by more interesting things such as the grain of the paper and the shadows on the wall.
The one in TDTCB was nice so I'm not sure why he changed style so radically.
Even the philosophy, which I found enganging and interesting in the previous volume, here consist of just a couple basic ideas repeated ad nauseam.
Last but not least, this book holds hands-down the highest number of gratuitous sexual images in the history of literature.
In every chapter there's mention of at least 4-5 phalluses and a number of rapes varying from 3 to a gazillion, 99% of which add absolutely nothing to the story.
Sentences like "He took his sword, and felt his phallus harden against his breeches" are perfectly normal in the Warrior Prophet.
This kind of shit is not only incredibly common, but at times gets so graphic and weird you'll really start wondering what the fuck was going on in Bakker's mind.
Everything with a hole in it will eventually get raped.
EVERYTHING. Men, women, children, demons, corpses, the ground (not kidding), wounds (not kidding, sadly), amputated body parts and so on.
I still like the setting and most of the writing, although at times things got so abstract I had troubles understanding what the fuck was going on.
3 stars feels about right, but I can't guarantee I'm not being influenced by the good impression I had of the first book.
Actually, the more I think about it, the worse it seems.
On to the third volume, but without much hope.
First of all, the plot fails to build upon the excellent foundations set in "The Darkness that comes before" resulting unmemorable and entirely predictable.
If you've read the first volume then you already know everything that's going to happen here.
Second, the atmosphere.
Remember that awesome feel of brooding darkness with unseen demonic threats in the first book? GOOD! Hold tight to that memory because you'll find nothing of that here.
The dark feel is now SO dark and SO lacking depth as to be almost comical and the Consult and its agents are reduced to cartoon villains with a penchant for raping anything with a hole in it (because they're evil).
The narration entirely focuses on the Holy war, which after all the talk of demons and omens and Apocalypse feels horribly mundane.
And then the characters.
Oh, the characters.
The characters in this book almost make me cry at the wasted potential.
The Darkness that comes before introduced some very interesting characters: realistic, flawed and deep.
In "The warrior prophet" Bakker took and turned them in a bunch of weeping cardboard cutouts flatter than Serwe's EEG.
I'm assuming it was intentional because I just can't see how could someone so thoroughly ruin great characters such as Cnaiur an Kellhus by accident.
In the first book Kellhus was an awesome protagonist/villain. He was subtle, smart, devious as fuck and I loved his Pov chapters because of the insights on his complex lines of reasoning.
Now he's an obnoxious Gary Stu with multiple layers of plot armor that just steamrolls every opposition without breaking a sweat.
His manipulative skills get ridiculously overpowered beyond any logic, to the point of being able to cause mass allucinations and rewrite people's memory just by talking.
He's dying? That was his plan all along! *YAWN*
About half of the paragraphs are there only to allow various pov characters to remind you how awesome Kellhus is, how everybody loves Kellhus, how Kellhus is great at manipulating people and on and on and on.
At some point he actually abandons any pretence of subtlety and announces himself as the son of god or something.
Needless to say, all this gets old fast.
Really, really fast.
Cnaiur keeps spitting and weeping and... not much else really.
Esmenet gradually becomes another Kellhus-loving freak losing any hint of personality she had.
Serwe... well Serwe was already completely braindead in the first book and nothing changed on that part.
Achamian is the only one that's still vaguely interesting, except when he's fawning over Kellhus's awesome awesomeness (which is pretty much all the time).
The battles are a borefest, little more than endless lists of irrelevant names. I actually had to force myself thrugh a couple of them and still I kept getting distracted by more interesting things such as the grain of the paper and the shadows on the wall.
The one in TDTCB was nice so I'm not sure why he changed style so radically.
Even the philosophy, which I found enganging and interesting in the previous volume, here consist of just a couple basic ideas repeated ad nauseam.
Last but not least, this book holds hands-down the highest number of gratuitous sexual images in the history of literature.
In every chapter there's mention of at least 4-5 phalluses and a number of rapes varying from 3 to a gazillion, 99% of which add absolutely nothing to the story.
Sentences like "He took his sword, and felt his phallus harden against his breeches" are perfectly normal in the Warrior Prophet.
This kind of shit is not only incredibly common, but at times gets so graphic and weird you'll really start wondering what the fuck was going on in Bakker's mind.
Everything with a hole in it will eventually get raped.
EVERYTHING. Men, women, children, demons, corpses, the ground (not kidding), wounds (not kidding, sadly), amputated body parts and so on.
I still like the setting and most of the writing, although at times things got so abstract I had troubles understanding what the fuck was going on.
3 stars feels about right, but I can't guarantee I'm not being influenced by the good impression I had of the first book.
Actually, the more I think about it, the worse it seems.
On to the third volume, but without much hope.
November 7, 2018
*I will not add something of my own for my second reread. I will just quote a friend and fellow Bakker fan in regards on Bakker's writing:
"I feel this is arguably the greatest fantasy trilogy ever written.
It is an absolutely gorgeous and sprawling work of deliriously beautiful prose, rich vivid characters and a dark quasi-nihilistic world. It does take some patience before certain key plot points are revealed but it is so worth the time invested.
I don't feel the writing is slow so much as it is deliberate and intentional.
I honestly feel if even a single word was excised the whole work would suffer. It is a complex machine with many cogs and wheels.
IMO Bakker is the Kurosawa of fantasy offering a story with a glorious and sweeping scope that utterly transports you to another world.
I have never experienced such immersion in a story as I did with TPoN."
I dont think I can adequately describe this epic saga of ordeal, madness and desperation. Eveything that Bakker introduced in the first book is here. Incredible depths in characterisation. Beautiful prose. Terrific sense of setting a scene. Like watching a movie of incredible cinematography. Immense worldbuilding with an always growing dark scope of impending doom. So detailed and vivid that Eärwa feels a real existing past. It almost feels like reading some holy scriptures.
I only want to make special mention to two chapters of the story. The desert march of the holy army and the siege of Caraskand. Bakker is extremely good at describing stories of doom and disaster. The ordeal in the desert and the doomed siege are an ode to what follows desperation. A spiralling descend to madness, hatred, savagery, survival, fanaticism, dark philosophy, tortures, famine, plagues but also feats of courage, determination, willpower, self sacrifice and self transendance. Terrific, riveting stuff.
In the end, my only worry is that this is too good. The plot and the scope are so grim and promising that I cant see how all these will be fulfilled in the end. But even if this wont fully happen these first two books were phenomenal and forced me to invest myself 100%. All day my thought is to Eärwa!
"I feel this is arguably the greatest fantasy trilogy ever written.
It is an absolutely gorgeous and sprawling work of deliriously beautiful prose, rich vivid characters and a dark quasi-nihilistic world. It does take some patience before certain key plot points are revealed but it is so worth the time invested.
I don't feel the writing is slow so much as it is deliberate and intentional.
I honestly feel if even a single word was excised the whole work would suffer. It is a complex machine with many cogs and wheels.
IMO Bakker is the Kurosawa of fantasy offering a story with a glorious and sweeping scope that utterly transports you to another world.
I have never experienced such immersion in a story as I did with TPoN."
I dont think I can adequately describe this epic saga of ordeal, madness and desperation. Eveything that Bakker introduced in the first book is here. Incredible depths in characterisation. Beautiful prose. Terrific sense of setting a scene. Like watching a movie of incredible cinematography. Immense worldbuilding with an always growing dark scope of impending doom. So detailed and vivid that Eärwa feels a real existing past. It almost feels like reading some holy scriptures.
I only want to make special mention to two chapters of the story. The desert march of the holy army and the siege of Caraskand. Bakker is extremely good at describing stories of doom and disaster. The ordeal in the desert and the doomed siege are an ode to what follows desperation. A spiralling descend to madness, hatred, savagery, survival, fanaticism, dark philosophy, tortures, famine, plagues but also feats of courage, determination, willpower, self sacrifice and self transendance. Terrific, riveting stuff.
In the end, my only worry is that this is too good. The plot and the scope are so grim and promising that I cant see how all these will be fulfilled in the end. But even if this wont fully happen these first two books were phenomenal and forced me to invest myself 100%. All day my thought is to Eärwa!
April 16, 2012
This second instalment in Bakker's compelling dark fantasy trilogy, The Prince of Nothing, is just as good as its predecessor. It is dark fantasy done correctly! We get memorable characters, a world with plenty of depth, a plot full of intrigue and engaging happenings, and all told in an engaging narration style that makes the dark content easy to read without ever making it seem too horrific or bleak. It shows Bakker's talent as a writer as this series can get pretty dark at times.
The story is just a continuation of what we got in the first book. The Holy War, and its mass of scheming participants, is finally ready to take the war to the heathens! It made for exciting and engaging reading as all the series best characters were back trying to manipulate things to suit their own self-interests.
This book does have a few flaws. I could do with there being a lot less misogyny present within the story. I understand the misogyny that is part of the world building and have no issue with it but it goes beyond that when it seeps into the story set-up, the characters who have no cultural reasons to be misogynistic, and even into bits of the omnipotent narration!
My Prince of Nothing read-along-buddy braved through some spoilers to glean this reply (after having to listen to me do a fair bit of moaning lol) by Bakker into the issue of the abundant misogyny within the series.
The Prince of Nothing is as much about epic fantasy as it is an epic fantasy, which is why I take - or try to anyway - the whole notion of a prescientific world very seriously. Prescientific worlds give us many things the modern world seems to have stripped from us - most importantly, I think, the illusion that something human inheres in the external world. Our ancestors didn't simply stamp their hopes on the world about them, they imposed their bigotries and fears as well. In Tolkien, for instance, the external world is racist, through and through. It is an objective fact in Middle-earth that some races are more valuable than others. In Earwa, the external world is sexist, not simply in the minds of the characters who dwell in it, but to the pith - much the same way Biblical Israel or any number of scriptural worlds are likewise sexist. The Prince of Nothing self-consciously explores this as a problem, and as such, I would hope that it's something women would want to read. The problem is that so many people confuse depiction for endorsement.
Bakker claims it was intentional. I'm a little sceptical myself as I'm not sure what point he was trying to make unless it was to put the boot into the level of misogyny present within most sacred religious texts? If so he could have been doing with being a bit less subtle in the way he made his point.
The other flaws that stood out for me were the occasional dues ex machina moments and what I felt was the overuse of a specific trope. The trope itself was not an issue but the overuse of it across multiple characters gave the story a lazy feel.
It sounds like I've done nothing but moan about this books flaws but I did actually enjoy reading it a lot and think The Prince of Nothing series is addictive reading and 5 star quality! The misogyny and the other darker aspects of the story do not hurt it too much as Bakker employs a fairly detached narration style that mitigates a lot of the darker stuff in the story and makes it tolerable. He also does not try to sell any of his characters as people the reader should like or admire. They are all flawed and most are quite villainous. Despite that fact the characters are a fascinating bunch and I'm glued to their various story arcs!
All in all I loved this one. Bakker's world has plenty of depth and he is a fantastic storyteller.
Rating: 5 stars.
Audio Note: David De Vries does a good job with the audio. His character voices are good and his voice acting seems decent as well.
The story is just a continuation of what we got in the first book. The Holy War, and its mass of scheming participants, is finally ready to take the war to the heathens! It made for exciting and engaging reading as all the series best characters were back trying to manipulate things to suit their own self-interests.
This book does have a few flaws. I could do with there being a lot less misogyny present within the story. I understand the misogyny that is part of the world building and have no issue with it but it goes beyond that when it seeps into the story set-up, the characters who have no cultural reasons to be misogynistic, and even into bits of the omnipotent narration!
My Prince of Nothing read-along-buddy braved through some spoilers to glean this reply (after having to listen to me do a fair bit of moaning lol) by Bakker into the issue of the abundant misogyny within the series.
The Prince of Nothing is as much about epic fantasy as it is an epic fantasy, which is why I take - or try to anyway - the whole notion of a prescientific world very seriously. Prescientific worlds give us many things the modern world seems to have stripped from us - most importantly, I think, the illusion that something human inheres in the external world. Our ancestors didn't simply stamp their hopes on the world about them, they imposed their bigotries and fears as well. In Tolkien, for instance, the external world is racist, through and through. It is an objective fact in Middle-earth that some races are more valuable than others. In Earwa, the external world is sexist, not simply in the minds of the characters who dwell in it, but to the pith - much the same way Biblical Israel or any number of scriptural worlds are likewise sexist. The Prince of Nothing self-consciously explores this as a problem, and as such, I would hope that it's something women would want to read. The problem is that so many people confuse depiction for endorsement.
Bakker claims it was intentional. I'm a little sceptical myself as I'm not sure what point he was trying to make unless it was to put the boot into the level of misogyny present within most sacred religious texts? If so he could have been doing with being a bit less subtle in the way he made his point.
The other flaws that stood out for me were the occasional dues ex machina moments and what I felt was the overuse of a specific trope. The trope itself was not an issue but the overuse of it across multiple characters gave the story a lazy feel.
It sounds like I've done nothing but moan about this books flaws but I did actually enjoy reading it a lot and think The Prince of Nothing series is addictive reading and 5 star quality! The misogyny and the other darker aspects of the story do not hurt it too much as Bakker employs a fairly detached narration style that mitigates a lot of the darker stuff in the story and makes it tolerable. He also does not try to sell any of his characters as people the reader should like or admire. They are all flawed and most are quite villainous. Despite that fact the characters are a fascinating bunch and I'm glued to their various story arcs!
All in all I loved this one. Bakker's world has plenty of depth and he is a fantastic storyteller.
Rating: 5 stars.
Audio Note: David De Vries does a good job with the audio. His character voices are good and his voice acting seems decent as well.
October 16, 2024
Kinda weird reading experience, since I found this book pretty substantially less engaging than book 1, but am really struggling to figure out why.
I think most of what people say in reviews is ad hoc, where we are engaged a certain amount for countless reasons, and then describe like 3 or 4 reasons we like or dislike a book, and by doing that we believe those explain our level of engagement. I think a lot of the time people pretend the author got way worse at a bunch of stuff to try and justify a gap in engagement between 2 books when they like one way less than the other. Or the author got vastly better.
Then situations like this book happen, where I have a couple reasons I like it less, which completely fail to explain the difference in how engaging I found the book to be as a reading experience. Because the reasons I consciously noticed were reasonably minor
It just seems not plausible to say that Bakker got worse at a bunch of stuff, so I shall leave it to future me to figure out.
One thing I should add really quick, is I still like the book more than I didn't. In fact I should say that there still is clearly some great character writing here, and the worldbuilding is insane. Also some lines which were really good. Although I have to be honest, if I hadn't been told a thousand times how Bakker has the best prose, or among the best prose, I definitely would not have identified it as so. Had I read this in a vacuum knowing nothing of what other people thought, and then after read how much people love the line to line writing, I would have been surprised for sure. Like, it's good, no problems with it, just at no point so far has it felt like it is an outlier to me, and I have been consistently more impressed with the worldbuilding and character writing.
Anyway, there is a big battle in Darkness That Comes Before, there are a bunch of battles in this book. I found all of them, universally to be way less interesting, visceral, intense, and generally good than the biggest battle in book 1. I could picture that battle, it told a narrative that felt connected to what was being described. I know why it turned out the way it did. I felt the dread of the characters feeling dread, and understood why they felt dread.
In this one there is a moment the character felt dread in a battle he saw was going wrong. I know that, because I was told. In the book 1 battle I could tell you in pretty great detail why what was being described to me on the battlefield lead to the dread he was feeling, why things were about to go horribly.
In book 2, similar scene, and like...it involved cavalry being held in reserve. Maybe i'm just dumb and can't follow tactics, but IDK I feel like usually I follow the tactics better than most people. Once I read a battle where the author copied Hannibal Barca's plan at the battle of Cannae, and my reaction was, oh that's cool, the character is doing Hannibals plan.
One reason is the way the battles are described is so annoying. And this might partially be a skill issue on my part. So there are multiple factions in each larger army in every battle, and I swear if you go to any page of a battle scene happening a third of the words are just listing the individual factions who I just don't care about doing specific stuff. half the time Bakker is writing about the the cavalry from this faction are doing this crazy shit, and I was like, wait the who? So like...what side are they on again, whatever i'm not checking the back 37 times per battle. There are 2 levels of the battle I am interested. The boots on the ground perspective, that is truly connected to the characters and their struggle, and the birds eye, general perspective that gives me an idea on who is winning, and why, and how on a large scale.
I feel these battles basically gave me neither of those somehow, and as a result, I found them boring.
And they just generally were way less interesting. There was especially a later battle which I think just didn't hit narratively the way it was supposed to for me. The victory felt cheap. It felt like they won because now it was fitting for the story for them to win, when if they had just done that earlier the story doesn't work.
The other thing was that I felt the pacing was off. Every novel has a number of status quos, where something kinda similar is happening for a while, and is being explored. And I felt like these status quos consistently lasted longer than they needed to, and became repetitive before the status quo changed.
I wonder if book 1 being less linear avoided this for me, as there were consistent bigger shifts in perspective, and location. While this book is much more linear.
Kellhus is still very very interesting.
6.8/10
I think most of what people say in reviews is ad hoc, where we are engaged a certain amount for countless reasons, and then describe like 3 or 4 reasons we like or dislike a book, and by doing that we believe those explain our level of engagement. I think a lot of the time people pretend the author got way worse at a bunch of stuff to try and justify a gap in engagement between 2 books when they like one way less than the other. Or the author got vastly better.
Then situations like this book happen, where I have a couple reasons I like it less, which completely fail to explain the difference in how engaging I found the book to be as a reading experience. Because the reasons I consciously noticed were reasonably minor
It just seems not plausible to say that Bakker got worse at a bunch of stuff, so I shall leave it to future me to figure out.
One thing I should add really quick, is I still like the book more than I didn't. In fact I should say that there still is clearly some great character writing here, and the worldbuilding is insane. Also some lines which were really good. Although I have to be honest, if I hadn't been told a thousand times how Bakker has the best prose, or among the best prose, I definitely would not have identified it as so. Had I read this in a vacuum knowing nothing of what other people thought, and then after read how much people love the line to line writing, I would have been surprised for sure. Like, it's good, no problems with it, just at no point so far has it felt like it is an outlier to me, and I have been consistently more impressed with the worldbuilding and character writing.
Anyway, there is a big battle in Darkness That Comes Before, there are a bunch of battles in this book. I found all of them, universally to be way less interesting, visceral, intense, and generally good than the biggest battle in book 1. I could picture that battle, it told a narrative that felt connected to what was being described. I know why it turned out the way it did. I felt the dread of the characters feeling dread, and understood why they felt dread.
In this one there is a moment the character felt dread in a battle he saw was going wrong. I know that, because I was told. In the book 1 battle I could tell you in pretty great detail why what was being described to me on the battlefield lead to the dread he was feeling, why things were about to go horribly.
In book 2, similar scene, and like...it involved cavalry being held in reserve. Maybe i'm just dumb and can't follow tactics, but IDK I feel like usually I follow the tactics better than most people. Once I read a battle where the author copied Hannibal Barca's plan at the battle of Cannae, and my reaction was, oh that's cool, the character is doing Hannibals plan.
One reason is the way the battles are described is so annoying. And this might partially be a skill issue on my part. So there are multiple factions in each larger army in every battle, and I swear if you go to any page of a battle scene happening a third of the words are just listing the individual factions who I just don't care about doing specific stuff. half the time Bakker is writing about the the cavalry from this faction are doing this crazy shit, and I was like, wait the who? So like...what side are they on again, whatever i'm not checking the back 37 times per battle. There are 2 levels of the battle I am interested. The boots on the ground perspective, that is truly connected to the characters and their struggle, and the birds eye, general perspective that gives me an idea on who is winning, and why, and how on a large scale.
I feel these battles basically gave me neither of those somehow, and as a result, I found them boring.
And they just generally were way less interesting. There was especially a later battle which I think just didn't hit narratively the way it was supposed to for me. The victory felt cheap. It felt like they won because now it was fitting for the story for them to win, when if they had just done that earlier the story doesn't work.
The other thing was that I felt the pacing was off. Every novel has a number of status quos, where something kinda similar is happening for a while, and is being explored. And I felt like these status quos consistently lasted longer than they needed to, and became repetitive before the status quo changed.
I wonder if book 1 being less linear avoided this for me, as there were consistent bigger shifts in perspective, and location. While this book is much more linear.
Kellhus is still very very interesting.
6.8/10
August 8, 2018
The scale of these books is immense, and I mean like huge. So much going on, so many different everythings. (I know that's not a word) The first book was way more political and personal and this one takes off right where it left off and we really get to see how Mr. Bakker handles the large scale fighting and battles. I gotta say I was impressed. I could follow everything that was going on, I felt connected enough to the characters to really care about what was happening, and in terms of ferocity this delivers brutality in spades. The structure of this was also somewhat unique IMO in that there was no single climactic act but a bunch of equally urgent events, none more important than the other. I have begun to trust R. Scott as an author after these two books to entertain me, to enlighten me with ways of thinking I had not explored before, and to deliver a multi-layered tapestry of emotion and great story telling. I was worried after I read the introduction where he explains how the first book took like fifteen years or so and this was written in under one and I said to myself it sounded like he was giving himself an out if it sucked, but by fifteen pages in all worries went out the window and I was happily hooked. Like my favorite series of all time that rhymes with Schmalazan, I "saw" what was going on in this book with crisp clarity and the scenes unfolded in my head in 4K Ultra HD. As soon as I would pick this up to read, my real world fell away and I was there with the dirt and the grit and the sweat and the blood, feeling what was going on and experiencing it like I was really there. Bravo Mr. Bakker and thank goodness for two-day shipping because I got book three right here next to me, begging me to begin.
May 20, 2009
I should probably make a shelf named "Abandoned" because thats what this book is ending up as. I made it about half way and just cant bring myself to pick it up anymore.
To call this a painful read is an understatement! I would give it negative stars if I could. Every single character in the story has been reduced to completely despicable stereotypes, leaving not a single likable thing about the story untouched.
As the rest of the storyline is about the atrocities of marching an army from point a to point b there isn't anything worth reading this book left.
Boo on you Mr Bakker for taking an interesting idea and grinding it to a pulpy mass of horse shit (and if I were quoting him, I would add something about evisceration and cum).
To call this a painful read is an understatement! I would give it negative stars if I could. Every single character in the story has been reduced to completely despicable stereotypes, leaving not a single likable thing about the story untouched.
As the rest of the storyline is about the atrocities of marching an army from point a to point b there isn't anything worth reading this book left.
Boo on you Mr Bakker for taking an interesting idea and grinding it to a pulpy mass of horse shit (and if I were quoting him, I would add something about evisceration and cum).
July 19, 2021
Update: Even better on reread. This series has one of the most expansive realistic immersive worlds I have read about in fantasy. I think people can be put off by all the names, factions, and places but to me that is what makes it feel so big and fleshed out. Unlike other fantasy stories that have a bunch of places on a map that the book never deals with this series either takes you there or has characters from there with their own distinct cultures. Also the story and characters are just incredibly compelling. Absolutely one of my all time favorite series and this is one of the best books in it.
Seeing as this is book 2 of the Prince of Nothing series I will likely keep this review short as to avoid spoilers while also capturing some of my thoughts that I can look back on after I have finished the series.
Right away I think my immediate impression after finishing the book is that I enjoyed it more than book 1 but only slightly more. The two books were quite different. Book 1 was more a book of political intrigue where there is a lot of maneuvering between various factions as they each try to sabotage and backstab the other in order to get what they want from the upcoming Holy War.
This lead to a lot of page time with characters I thought were terrible people, but really interesting such as Conphas and Emperor Xerius. Book 2 moves in a different direction as the Holy War has started in truth and that makes the book less politics focused in favor of war and battle. While I missed the political gamesman ship the battle scenes, especially when magic was used, was really engrossing. This is full throated grimdark, and when it comes to death and destruction in war we are spared no detailed description. The prose is so good though you only want more description of the horrors of the world so it never feels bogged down. This is particularly true in part 3 of the book where a siege occurs. I got sucked right in and could not stop reading until the end. And then the last chapter, which functions as somewhat of a long epilogue, really turns some of the horror elements of the series up to 11 and whetted my appetite for book 3.
The parts where I struggled with the book, and what keeps it from being a 5 star read for me, is so much of the time we spend with Kellhus. His rise to prominence really isn't written in a way that is really very believable. Everything about him and his actions feel very convenient, and the way the other characters react to him doesn't really make a lot of sense based on what we see him do. I told some people on discord that Kellhus basically spouts some Psych 101 bullshit and people fall all over themselves. It's pretty clear that Kellhus is supposed to be manipulating circumstances to win favor, but I don't think it comes off quite the way the author intended.
In any case this is still a very good book and series that has me completely invested when originally I hadn't planned to read it this year at all. I highly recommend it to all grimdark fans.
One last thing...I originally was down on the audiobook based on the audible sample, but I decided to go ahead and give it a shot for immersive reading. I was 100 percent wrong. The narrator (whose name I can't recall) does an absolutely fantastic job, and it was nice to hear a fantasy book narrator with an American accent for a change.
Seeing as this is book 2 of the Prince of Nothing series I will likely keep this review short as to avoid spoilers while also capturing some of my thoughts that I can look back on after I have finished the series.
Right away I think my immediate impression after finishing the book is that I enjoyed it more than book 1 but only slightly more. The two books were quite different. Book 1 was more a book of political intrigue where there is a lot of maneuvering between various factions as they each try to sabotage and backstab the other in order to get what they want from the upcoming Holy War.
This lead to a lot of page time with characters I thought were terrible people, but really interesting such as Conphas and Emperor Xerius. Book 2 moves in a different direction as the Holy War has started in truth and that makes the book less politics focused in favor of war and battle. While I missed the political gamesman ship the battle scenes, especially when magic was used, was really engrossing. This is full throated grimdark, and when it comes to death and destruction in war we are spared no detailed description. The prose is so good though you only want more description of the horrors of the world so it never feels bogged down. This is particularly true in part 3 of the book where a siege occurs. I got sucked right in and could not stop reading until the end. And then the last chapter, which functions as somewhat of a long epilogue, really turns some of the horror elements of the series up to 11 and whetted my appetite for book 3.
The parts where I struggled with the book, and what keeps it from being a 5 star read for me, is so much of the time we spend with Kellhus. His rise to prominence really isn't written in a way that is really very believable. Everything about him and his actions feel very convenient, and the way the other characters react to him doesn't really make a lot of sense based on what we see him do. I told some people on discord that Kellhus basically spouts some Psych 101 bullshit and people fall all over themselves. It's pretty clear that Kellhus is supposed to be manipulating circumstances to win favor, but I don't think it comes off quite the way the author intended.
In any case this is still a very good book and series that has me completely invested when originally I hadn't planned to read it this year at all. I highly recommend it to all grimdark fans.
One last thing...I originally was down on the audiobook based on the audible sample, but I decided to go ahead and give it a shot for immersive reading. I was 100 percent wrong. The narrator (whose name I can't recall) does an absolutely fantastic job, and it was nice to hear a fantasy book narrator with an American accent for a change.
December 20, 2015
Scott Bakker is officially one of my favorite authors.
This book was awesome from the start and only got better. The characters have been introduced in the first book, we know their back story, we know them...and now they're all together. One thing I love about this book is how characters CHANGE due to their circumstances. Characters who've felt betrayal so strong they just die inside, characters that literally go mad.
I'm not a fast reader but I read the first one in 7 days and this in 10. The tale is captivating, the world alluring, and the characters...Achamian, Kellhus, Cnauir, Esmenet, Conphas, Proyas, Xinemus so many more intriguing characters. Grey characters, all with motives you can reasonably understand.
It was fun to see Kellhus manipulate the Holy War. Achamians wrath when moved to anger. And Cnauir, the most violent of all men, breaker of men and horses, stare down scores of enemies and scream "who? who will murder me!"
This book had so many epic moments. A tension packed, nail biting encounter between Kellhus and Cnauir at the Meneanor sea a stand out scene.
Deserves nothing less than 5 stars and its On to the next one!
This book was awesome from the start and only got better. The characters have been introduced in the first book, we know their back story, we know them...and now they're all together. One thing I love about this book is how characters CHANGE due to their circumstances. Characters who've felt betrayal so strong they just die inside, characters that literally go mad.
I'm not a fast reader but I read the first one in 7 days and this in 10. The tale is captivating, the world alluring, and the characters...Achamian, Kellhus, Cnauir, Esmenet, Conphas, Proyas, Xinemus so many more intriguing characters. Grey characters, all with motives you can reasonably understand.
It was fun to see Kellhus manipulate the Holy War. Achamians wrath when moved to anger. And Cnauir, the most violent of all men, breaker of men and horses, stare down scores of enemies and scream "who? who will murder me!"
This book had so many epic moments. A tension packed, nail biting encounter between Kellhus and Cnauir at the Meneanor sea a stand out scene.
Deserves nothing less than 5 stars and its On to the next one!
May 19, 2016
August 2021 update: Sometimes you just need to re-read an old favorite. Glad I did, it has been a while since I last dipped my toe into this series and I will likely finish all of them by the end of the year. The below review still holds up.
Observational aside: I will rarely reread books. Once I finish a book it is usually off to the next one, with few exceptions. In this case the sixth book in the series, The Great Ordeal, is coming out soon, a book I have waited nearly five years for, and I wanted to give myself a refresher on the entire series before it was released. I don't recall the first time I read "The Prince of Nothing" trilogy but Goodreads assures me it was before I joined this website. Since then I have read literally hundreds of books and grown as a reader thanks to those books as well as thinking through those books when I write reviews. Over that time my sensibilities and critical eye has changed as well (I'd like to think for the better) so it was a rather enlightening exercise this return to a time in my reading life from before Goodreads (BGR?). With that rambling out of the way on to the review.
The Darkness That Comes Before review
The Prince of Nothing trilogy is probably better understood as one story that happens to be broken up into three sections with each book fulfilling a part of the traditional three act structure. The Darkness That Comes Before introduced us to the main characters and their various relationships as well as set the historical and cultural stage they would play their stories out in.
For a series that is based on The First Crusade there was remarkably little crusading in the first book. It was mostly about the political maneuverings to secure various parties' interests to ensure the Holy War could even happen. After all, it is no small thing to coordinate and supply a 150,000 strong medieval army plus provide for all the camp followers. It is serious business and Bakker does not shy away from showing just how difficult such an undertaking is. There is near constant squabbling between the different "Great Names" much as there was during the historic First Crusade.
This book certainly delivers in terms of battles, deftly describing the ebb and flow and chaos of these sorts of encounters. They are often not one unified battle but dozens of small pitched battles along a great front that the military leaders have difficulty coordinating in the midst of the chaos. As I previous wrote, Bakker will occasionally transition into a omniscient view to give the reader a better grasp on major events. In this book he effectively uses it to describe these large pitched battles. It is very much a top down view for the most part and conveys the flow of action and its savagery without being tied to one individual point of view. It is efficient and effective, making the battles cinematic instead of constrained to a handful of POVs.
These battles are between the Holy War taking on the role of the Christian Crusaders (their faith is Inrithi) and the Islamic analogue, the Fanim. As much as the Inrithi would cloak their war in the raiment of holiness and justice in God's name there is rarely quarter given and atrocities against the Fanim population is common practice.
This book also brings us several magic battles (much to the chagrin of the sorcerers' immediate surroundings). It is pretty damn impressive to see just what Aka is capable of when provoked to rage (hint: do not provoke Aka to rage):
This book was certainly more action packed than the first (as is expected in the second act) but it wasn't action for action's sake. The narrative and character development proceeded nicely and the great ancient evil continues to play its games, only slowly coming to the realization that this Khellus chap is a threat of unknown quantity and quality. Meanwhile there is plenty of political maneuvering to subvert the Holy War to others' ends and the Fanim continue to present a significant threat to the whole operation (not that I can blame them, after all, they are GETTING INVADED BY A BUNCH OF RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS!!!!!). All in all a great read even if the shortcomings of the first book have yet to be mitigated.
And, as always, some choice quotes:
Always Be Closing: Glory doesn't vouchsafe glory. The unthinkable can always come to pass.
I feel like St. Anselm would agree with this sentiment: All men are greater than dead men. -Ainoni Proverb.
They maybe be zealots, but they are zealots on a budget: "If blasphemers kill blasphemers, then we're saved oil and wood."
I mean, I guess there is a distinction there: Heathens, Uranyanka would latter tell Chepheramunni, he could tolerate, but treacherous heathen he could not forbear. [In this case not being able to forbear them means slaughtering them to the man.]
Why the separation of Church and state also protects the church side of the equation: Dead prophets were useful, because one could rule in their name. But live prophets?
Thus far the reread project is going smashingly, this was energetic and engaging. I am definitely appreciating the more subtle themes Bakker is laying out and can appreciate just what he is trying to accomplish with his characters' plot arcs, something I don't think I fully grasped the first time through.
Observational aside: I will rarely reread books. Once I finish a book it is usually off to the next one, with few exceptions. In this case the sixth book in the series, The Great Ordeal, is coming out soon, a book I have waited nearly five years for, and I wanted to give myself a refresher on the entire series before it was released. I don't recall the first time I read "The Prince of Nothing" trilogy but Goodreads assures me it was before I joined this website. Since then I have read literally hundreds of books and grown as a reader thanks to those books as well as thinking through those books when I write reviews. Over that time my sensibilities and critical eye has changed as well (I'd like to think for the better) so it was a rather enlightening exercise this return to a time in my reading life from before Goodreads (BGR?). With that rambling out of the way on to the review.
The Darkness That Comes Before review
The Prince of Nothing trilogy is probably better understood as one story that happens to be broken up into three sections with each book fulfilling a part of the traditional three act structure. The Darkness That Comes Before introduced us to the main characters and their various relationships as well as set the historical and cultural stage they would play their stories out in.
For a series that is based on The First Crusade there was remarkably little crusading in the first book. It was mostly about the political maneuverings to secure various parties' interests to ensure the Holy War could even happen. After all, it is no small thing to coordinate and supply a 150,000 strong medieval army plus provide for all the camp followers. It is serious business and Bakker does not shy away from showing just how difficult such an undertaking is. There is near constant squabbling between the different "Great Names" much as there was during the historic First Crusade.
This book certainly delivers in terms of battles, deftly describing the ebb and flow and chaos of these sorts of encounters. They are often not one unified battle but dozens of small pitched battles along a great front that the military leaders have difficulty coordinating in the midst of the chaos. As I previous wrote, Bakker will occasionally transition into a omniscient view to give the reader a better grasp on major events. In this book he effectively uses it to describe these large pitched battles. It is very much a top down view for the most part and conveys the flow of action and its savagery without being tied to one individual point of view. It is efficient and effective, making the battles cinematic instead of constrained to a handful of POVs.
These battles are between the Holy War taking on the role of the Christian Crusaders (their faith is Inrithi) and the Islamic analogue, the Fanim. As much as the Inrithi would cloak their war in the raiment of holiness and justice in God's name there is rarely quarter given and atrocities against the Fanim population is common practice.
No matter what the fanaticism, Inrithi, Consult, or even Mandate, the consequences are the same: men die or suffer.But the war and battles serve merely as a backdrop for the path of our four major characters: Khellus, Aka, Esmenet, and Cnaiür. To me the most fascinating was Khellus, who continues his quest to find his father. He has decided the only way to get to his father, who resides in the Holy City that is the target of the Holy War, is to subvert the Holy War to his own ends. Yes, his plan is basically to hijack a 150,000+ man army and an entire school of sorcery from the most powerful nobles and sorcerers in the land. Talk about a ballsy move. But he has a plan and the abilities to pull it off because he understands what moves men's souls. He sees how the history and culture of the people of the Three Seas can be manipulated by him to further his influence over everyone from slave to Great Name alike. It is a sight to behold and, frankly, sort of terrifying. Keep in mind I described him in my review of the first book as a sociopath and what we learn about his upbringing as a Dûnyain only reinforces how alien these humans have become. More on the Dûnyain and their philosophy in my review of the last book in the series because there is a lot to dig in to.
This book also brings us several magic battles (much to the chagrin of the sorcerers' immediate surroundings). It is pretty damn impressive to see just what Aka is capable of when provoked to rage (hint: do not provoke Aka to rage):
Vengeance roamed the halls of the compound - like a God. And he sang his song with a beast's blind fury, parting wall from foundation, blowing ceiling into sky, as though the works of man were things of sand.What the sorcery of this world lacks in subtlety it more than makes up for in shear pants crapping power.
This book was certainly more action packed than the first (as is expected in the second act) but it wasn't action for action's sake. The narrative and character development proceeded nicely and the great ancient evil continues to play its games, only slowly coming to the realization that this Khellus chap is a threat of unknown quantity and quality. Meanwhile there is plenty of political maneuvering to subvert the Holy War to others' ends and the Fanim continue to present a significant threat to the whole operation (not that I can blame them, after all, they are GETTING INVADED BY A BUNCH OF RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS!!!!!). All in all a great read even if the shortcomings of the first book have yet to be mitigated.
And, as always, some choice quotes:
Always Be Closing: Glory doesn't vouchsafe glory. The unthinkable can always come to pass.
I feel like St. Anselm would agree with this sentiment: All men are greater than dead men. -Ainoni Proverb.
They maybe be zealots, but they are zealots on a budget: "If blasphemers kill blasphemers, then we're saved oil and wood."
I mean, I guess there is a distinction there: Heathens, Uranyanka would latter tell Chepheramunni, he could tolerate, but treacherous heathen he could not forbear. [In this case not being able to forbear them means slaughtering them to the man.]
Why the separation of Church and state also protects the church side of the equation: Dead prophets were useful, because one could rule in their name. But live prophets?
Thus far the reread project is going smashingly, this was energetic and engaging. I am definitely appreciating the more subtle themes Bakker is laying out and can appreciate just what he is trying to accomplish with his characters' plot arcs, something I don't think I fully grasped the first time through.
July 15, 2024
4.0 Stars
Another solid installment in this post apocalyptic military fantasy series.
Another solid installment in this post apocalyptic military fantasy series.
May 4, 2025
Truth Shines! Now to go do something uplifting, like petting a dog or hearing laughter.
November 14, 2023
It's a curse with reviews for this series. Once again I wrote it, was very happy and then my Browser decided to not save any of the text - all gone. I hate my life...
But what I don't hate at all is: *drumroll*
This book! Bakker as an author! Prince of Nothing as a series! Suprising revelation, isn't it?
But seriously, 'The Warrior Prophet' hit me as its predecessor did - in both the same ways as well as new ones. The book felt vastly different than book 1, as many a thing is adapted to fit the focus of this book. It's different yet recognizable, obviously. Improving some parts, leaving out others, making it in general about as good as 'The darkness that comes before'.
And short reminder: I consider that one a masterpiece and one of the best books I have ever read.
This one just cemented R. Scott Bakker as one of the greatest living/working authors for me. I adore this guy and it is so inspiring for me and my own writing - even if he is simply on a different level on intellect and literary understanding. But this is what I love about reading and about writing. Stories like this, books like this, characters like this.
I'll continue with talking a bit more about what I found was different here when compared to book 1, because that's the main debate going on in my head regarding this series.
Kind of reminds me of something like Sun-Eater in it's difference, where every book has a different focus on the thematic/narrative level and also how it deals with setting etc.
Because where 'The darkness that comes before' was mainly about introducing the characters in a bit of an Abercrombi'an way, mixing it with exciting intrigue and philosophical debate - setting the stage and the chess-pieces so-to-say; this one is way more focused on covering one specific aspect on the larger scheme; and that is war.
Where book 1 never showed the Holy War and basically ends with the Holy War beginning its march, this one covers the path it takes towards its goal and the eventual confrontation we are all waiting for.
We therefore get battle scenes/sequences that are among the best I have ever read on a pure literary standpoint. Because as you should be aware of, Bakker doesn't simply write battles. He writes *about* battles. *About* the terror and trauma and consequences to culture and human psyche. He weaves all this into his text on such a small pagecount, that I was beyond floored on multiple occasions. How he narrates these events that are larger than one single POV or viewpoint could comprehend was fascinating and - once again - inspiring.
But even more than war, the central element getting explored is the role of Kellhus.
And here's where my struggles with the book started - where I'd say it is a step beneath book 1.
I love Kellhus. Both as a character and a concept, as well as as a stylistic device and a pure flex by the author to pull somebody like him off.
But everything that makes out and defines his character has already been set up enough in book 1 - at least I felt so.
Never once did I question any of his validation as the prophet he is proclaimed by now. That was the point of how he was written in book 1, right? To see from his perspective, that he is something special and in some ways superior... That he has power over others.
But now, most of the book deals with how side-characters react to him, how they see him and figure out what is the deal with him. How his validation increases over time, what his actions cause for the unnamed individuals involved in the Holy War.
And every time somebody was questioning or exploring his validity - due to how he was already written to be seen by the reader - I couldn't help but simply think: duh.
I get why this has to be the focus. I also really dig where it is heading toward the ending of the book; can't doubt how heavy a finale it makes for. But still, the middle-section especially really dragged every time we got to someone directly involved with the position of Kellhus.
But about the rest I can't say anything but that it stays on the phenomenal level it already was. The characters and their arcs are so incredibly well written, conveived and presented.
Kellhus - despite of how redundant it felt for me - is always just a presence in the text as no one else.
Achamian goes through so much heartbreaking stuff; so many fascinating elements that flesh him out and transcend him/advance his arc forward. What happens in the later half especially was simply... Damn...
Esmenet - obviously connected to him in many ways - plays a big role in that.
Serwe continues to stunn me with how much balls it takes for an author to go as far as Bakker does with her. I'll pick this thought up later, but for now know, that how she views the world and especially how she sees and values herself was gut-clenching at times and really really heavy to read.
And now to Cnaiür; because he kind of seems like the black sheep in this book, as he has not nearly as much to do as in book 1 - barely anything to be perfectly honest. He participates in some battle-scenes, but apart from that there was no real journey for him, nothing pulling me through his parts in the book. Nothing terrible, he was always cool to read, but also never reaching much urgency or anything like that across multiple chapters - it was always a in-the-moment thing with him in this part of the story.
And finally I'd like to agree with the overall consensus on this series about it not being for everybody. Because it's dark.
Still not on a level that I'd find extreme, but then again, I'm maybe no measure for that... Still there are scenes and aspects of the series, that go in places, that I've never seen done by other authors. And especially not in this crude, literary perfection. I loved it, but I've heard people putting down books for lesser things.
The things that are considered normal in this world and how Bakker makes you totally immersed in even the most disturbing aspects is beyond fascinating to read, but gets really tough to read at times. I'll not go into deatil, but there is a certain scene with a character "talking" to his mother, with a kind of child-harem present... That one really made my jaw drop to the floor because holy shit was that sick (and NOT in the 'cool' way.)
Also what I previously mentioned about the character of Serwe and how she reflects on herself/sees herself might get too dark and painful for some. But again, personally I love stuff like this when it is pulled off by a master like Bakker.
Trauma, depression, nihilism, extentialism, madness, etc. bring it on I can take some more.
Beyond excited for book 3 - which I expect to be the big conclusion to this arc and finally the confrontation I thirst for for so long!
I'll repeat my statement from book 1 and demand you to read it. Malazan meets Dune, while being completely it's own thing.
But what I don't hate at all is: *drumroll*
This book! Bakker as an author! Prince of Nothing as a series! Suprising revelation, isn't it?
But seriously, 'The Warrior Prophet' hit me as its predecessor did - in both the same ways as well as new ones. The book felt vastly different than book 1, as many a thing is adapted to fit the focus of this book. It's different yet recognizable, obviously. Improving some parts, leaving out others, making it in general about as good as 'The darkness that comes before'.
And short reminder: I consider that one a masterpiece and one of the best books I have ever read.
This one just cemented R. Scott Bakker as one of the greatest living/working authors for me. I adore this guy and it is so inspiring for me and my own writing - even if he is simply on a different level on intellect and literary understanding. But this is what I love about reading and about writing. Stories like this, books like this, characters like this.
I'll continue with talking a bit more about what I found was different here when compared to book 1, because that's the main debate going on in my head regarding this series.
Kind of reminds me of something like Sun-Eater in it's difference, where every book has a different focus on the thematic/narrative level and also how it deals with setting etc.
Because where 'The darkness that comes before' was mainly about introducing the characters in a bit of an Abercrombi'an way, mixing it with exciting intrigue and philosophical debate - setting the stage and the chess-pieces so-to-say; this one is way more focused on covering one specific aspect on the larger scheme; and that is war.
Where book 1 never showed the Holy War and basically ends with the Holy War beginning its march, this one covers the path it takes towards its goal and the eventual confrontation we are all waiting for.
We therefore get battle scenes/sequences that are among the best I have ever read on a pure literary standpoint. Because as you should be aware of, Bakker doesn't simply write battles. He writes *about* battles. *About* the terror and trauma and consequences to culture and human psyche. He weaves all this into his text on such a small pagecount, that I was beyond floored on multiple occasions. How he narrates these events that are larger than one single POV or viewpoint could comprehend was fascinating and - once again - inspiring.
But even more than war, the central element getting explored is the role of Kellhus.
And here's where my struggles with the book started - where I'd say it is a step beneath book 1.
I love Kellhus. Both as a character and a concept, as well as as a stylistic device and a pure flex by the author to pull somebody like him off.
But everything that makes out and defines his character has already been set up enough in book 1 - at least I felt so.
Never once did I question any of his validation as the prophet he is proclaimed by now. That was the point of how he was written in book 1, right? To see from his perspective, that he is something special and in some ways superior... That he has power over others.
But now, most of the book deals with how side-characters react to him, how they see him and figure out what is the deal with him. How his validation increases over time, what his actions cause for the unnamed individuals involved in the Holy War.
And every time somebody was questioning or exploring his validity - due to how he was already written to be seen by the reader - I couldn't help but simply think: duh.
I get why this has to be the focus. I also really dig where it is heading toward the ending of the book; can't doubt how heavy a finale it makes for. But still, the middle-section especially really dragged every time we got to someone directly involved with the position of Kellhus.
But about the rest I can't say anything but that it stays on the phenomenal level it already was. The characters and their arcs are so incredibly well written, conveived and presented.
Kellhus - despite of how redundant it felt for me - is always just a presence in the text as no one else.
Achamian goes through so much heartbreaking stuff; so many fascinating elements that flesh him out and transcend him/advance his arc forward. What happens in the later half especially was simply... Damn...
Esmenet - obviously connected to him in many ways - plays a big role in that.
Serwe continues to stunn me with how much balls it takes for an author to go as far as Bakker does with her. I'll pick this thought up later, but for now know, that how she views the world and especially how she sees and values herself was gut-clenching at times and really really heavy to read.
And now to Cnaiür; because he kind of seems like the black sheep in this book, as he has not nearly as much to do as in book 1 - barely anything to be perfectly honest. He participates in some battle-scenes, but apart from that there was no real journey for him, nothing pulling me through his parts in the book. Nothing terrible, he was always cool to read, but also never reaching much urgency or anything like that across multiple chapters - it was always a in-the-moment thing with him in this part of the story.
And finally I'd like to agree with the overall consensus on this series about it not being for everybody. Because it's dark.
Still not on a level that I'd find extreme, but then again, I'm maybe no measure for that... Still there are scenes and aspects of the series, that go in places, that I've never seen done by other authors. And especially not in this crude, literary perfection. I loved it, but I've heard people putting down books for lesser things.
The things that are considered normal in this world and how Bakker makes you totally immersed in even the most disturbing aspects is beyond fascinating to read, but gets really tough to read at times. I'll not go into deatil, but there is a certain scene with a character "talking" to his mother, with a kind of child-harem present... That one really made my jaw drop to the floor because holy shit was that sick (and NOT in the 'cool' way.)
Also what I previously mentioned about the character of Serwe and how she reflects on herself/sees herself might get too dark and painful for some. But again, personally I love stuff like this when it is pulled off by a master like Bakker.
Trauma, depression, nihilism, extentialism, madness, etc. bring it on I can take some more.
Beyond excited for book 3 - which I expect to be the big conclusion to this arc and finally the confrontation I thirst for for so long!
I'll repeat my statement from book 1 and demand you to read it. Malazan meets Dune, while being completely it's own thing.
October 19, 2025
Anche in questo secondo capitolo il ciclo si conferma tra le migliori saghe adult fantasy in circolazione. Mistero il perché sia pressoché sconosciuto in Italia... anche se la Mondadori ne ha grossa responsabilità, avendolo buttato in libreria alla carlona in un volume unico poco curato.
September 27, 2019
The Holy War continues its long march toward Shimeh to reclaim it back from the Heathens. Book 1 saw the insanely enormous gathering of soldiers, whores and slaves with only one battle being fought, which was disastrous for the Men of the Tusk. Book 2 progresses the story at a pretty decent pace with the violence and battle level turned all the way up to 11!
It’s a bit of a weird review to consider because at times The Warrior-Prophet annoyed me to the point of giving up (it was probably an empty threat) but at others i was in awe of the story the author was weaving. My biggest irritation is the number of factions and their intricate names. During some of the major battles i couldn’t figure out which side had the upper hand because keeping track of the factions and the side they’re fighting for is harder than it should be. That goes for the individual names also. I stopped trying to pronounce some of them and shortened them down to the first three letters!
Name length aside the Warrior-Prophet continues in the same excellent fashion as The Darkness That Comes Before. The political maneuvering and scheming, which i love to read in fantasy books, continues on its intriguing course with even more complexity and backstabbing than Book 1. I’m not a fan of long paragraphs of battles in books because rarely are they written well (Steven Erikson is the exception) . They’re usually clumsy, unoriginal, repetitive and predictable. Recently i read the The Empire in Black and Gold and the fight scenes were so boring to the point of sleep inducing and in fact put me off reading the rest of the series. For me, the less fighting the better. Thankfully Warrior-Prophet doesn’t go for the formulaic fight scenes and instead gives a descriptive overview of what’s happening on the battlefield. I particularly enjoyed the parts where Cnaiur urs Skiotha is watching the battle unfold before his eyes.
It’s a slow burn and took me a while to read as there are parts that lull and hang around too long but as with book 1 patience is required and the ultimate pay-off is worth the wait. The ending, although pretty dark and horrific, is brilliantly done and sets up book 3 superbly.
It’s a bit of a weird review to consider because at times The Warrior-Prophet annoyed me to the point of giving up (it was probably an empty threat) but at others i was in awe of the story the author was weaving. My biggest irritation is the number of factions and their intricate names. During some of the major battles i couldn’t figure out which side had the upper hand because keeping track of the factions and the side they’re fighting for is harder than it should be. That goes for the individual names also. I stopped trying to pronounce some of them and shortened them down to the first three letters!
Name length aside the Warrior-Prophet continues in the same excellent fashion as The Darkness That Comes Before. The political maneuvering and scheming, which i love to read in fantasy books, continues on its intriguing course with even more complexity and backstabbing than Book 1. I’m not a fan of long paragraphs of battles in books because rarely are they written well (Steven Erikson is the exception) . They’re usually clumsy, unoriginal, repetitive and predictable. Recently i read the The Empire in Black and Gold and the fight scenes were so boring to the point of sleep inducing and in fact put me off reading the rest of the series. For me, the less fighting the better. Thankfully Warrior-Prophet doesn’t go for the formulaic fight scenes and instead gives a descriptive overview of what’s happening on the battlefield. I particularly enjoyed the parts where Cnaiur urs Skiotha is watching the battle unfold before his eyes.
It’s a slow burn and took me a while to read as there are parts that lull and hang around too long but as with book 1 patience is required and the ultimate pay-off is worth the wait. The ending, although pretty dark and horrific, is brilliantly done and sets up book 3 superbly.
February 28, 2026
It is rare that a second book in a series captures me in equivocal ways as to the first. Perhaps I’ve read too many “second book syndrome” cases. The Warrior Prophet, I am glad to report, is not one of them.
Following the Holy War on its marches to Shimeh, we discover the true depths of Kellhus’ power. He is a terrifying force with the way he can persuade and manipulate people. I wouldn’t call him a villain in the traditional sense, but I would not say he is a hero by any means, at least not one that I would stand behind.
The way he completed dismantled Cnaiür… he reduced a warrior to a mad man. Using Serwë against him, cutting to the heart of his soul. And let’s not forget what he’s done to Esmi!
Her relationship with Achamian was one of my favorite parts about this book. Their love is so genuine and real, and I loved their scenes together. What Kellhus did to her is unforgivable. I cannot stand by what he does; I didn’t fully support him before, but now I can see what he truly is. He’s the antithesis of Paul Atreides.
Another character I found intriguing besides our main three was Cnaiür. His struggle with his feelings towards the Inrithi was really interesting. He has wanted to belong ever since the betrayal that broke him, and for years, his tribe wouldn’t accept him back. Now, he starts living and fighting with his former enemy, and he can’t help but start viewing them as similar to his people. We’re all not so different from each other as we think, and he slowly starts to slightly care, I think. He shows mercy and compassion; he’s formed a sort of bond with Proyas. I find him more fascinating as I keep reading, and I’m intrigued to see how his journey ends.
Speaking of Proyas, I loved his journey with his faith. He is the epitome of a true believer, fully backing Maithanet and this Holy War. But because of his faith, he lost the two people who he was closest to, Xinemus and Achamian, and he starts questioning if that was worth it. By the way, the aftermath of Xinemus and Achamian’s escape was so devastating. I feel so bad for Zin, and Achamian struggling with feeling guilt is so real. Really well written.
Achamian also struggled with his doubt. He was so certain that Kellhus signified hope and was willing to sacrifice everything, his School, his sacred knowledge, his life, everything, for this man. When he comes back and realizes what he’s done to Esmenet, he starts to question what really is worth saving the world. Does he follow his heart or his head?
I think more people are starting to question this Kellhus guy. Of course there were always the doubters, like Conphas, but I have to believe that people will wake up to what he is. Achamian certainly has started to doubt who he is. He destroyed his relationship and only befriended him and took him on as a teacher to secure more knowledge to better manipulate.
This series will continue to get darker, I fear, if that last section was any indication of how brutal and disgusting things can get. I hope it also continues to explore the theme of faith and what monstrosities people are willing to commit in the name of it.
I’m not a religious person myself, and by my saying this, I’m not in any way trying to disparage others for their faith, but I’ve always viewed faith as a sort of crutch for some people. Needing to believe in something greater, to give a purpose to their lives. I’ve also seen the wars that have arisen because of faith. People so certain in their beliefs that they refuse to acknowledge the existence of doubt, calling any non-believer an enemy of god.
Faith and doubt can, and should, coexist. The world always has balance. When faith becomes certainty, destruction and violence follows.
I’m excited that I’ve finally made it to the last book and am ready to finish this journey. I have no idea how this will end. Shimeh is the key to everything, so we’ll see what happens when the forces converge there.
Quotes
"Never again," Achamian said… “Nothing. No man, no School, no threat. Nothing will take you from me again."
"When I can't find you," he said, "or even when you turn away, I feel... I feel hollow, as though my heart's a thing of smoke... Isn't that 'we'?"
Even when one floated, there was always a current…
Always something to fight.
"And 'barbarity,' I fear, is simply a word for unfamiliarity that threatens."
Fate was but one more world-born subterfuge, another lie men used to give meaning to their abject helplessness. That was why they thought the future a Whore, something who favoured no man over another. Something heartbreakingly indifferent.
The heart recited no scripture.
Love is lust made meaningful. Hope is hunger made human.
How does one learn innocence? How does one teach ignorance? For to be them is to know them not. And yet they are the immovable point from which the compass of life swings, the measure of all crime and compassion, the rule of all wisdom and folly. They are the Absolute.
“When we witness, we testify, and when we testify we make ourselves responsible for what we see. And that—that—is what it means to belong."
It was strange, to be known—truly known. To be awaited rather than anticipated. To be accepted instead of believed. To be half another's elaborate habits. To see oneself continually foreshadowed in another's eyes.
Was that not love? To know, to trust a mystery…
And he knew he belonged to Esmi—not the world.
She was his covenant. Esmenet was his wife.
For events to have purpose, their ends had to determine their beginnings, and this was impossible. Things were governed by their origins, not their destinations.
To open a book was not only to seize a moment of helplessness, not only to relinquish a jealous handful of heartbeats to the unpredictable mark of another man's quill, it was to allow oneself to be written. For what was a book if not a long consecutive surrender to the movements of another's soul? Achamian could think of no abandonment of self more profound.
He read, and was moved to chuckle by ironies a thousand years dead, and to reflect pensively on claims and hopes that had far outlived the age of their import.
If women were hope’s oldest companions, it was due to helplessness.
Nothing etched the shape of one’s impotence with more galling meticulousness than the blank passage of time.
Could anything be so clear, so pure? Outstretched like great, fluid arms the holy warriors embraced their enemy. The sermon was simple. Break. Die.
“He who believes he is defeated is defeated.”
The Prophet simply turned and caught the descending blade between his thumb and forefinger. "No," he said, then swept around, knocking the man to the turf with an unbelievable kick.
What made one response more true than another? Was it one's blood? Was it another's words of reason? Was it one's God?
Or was it, as Moënghus had claimed, one's goal?
For what was madness, if not a kind of overpowering impatience, a need to seize at once what the world denied?
Beliefs were the foundation of actions. Those who believed without doubting, he would say, acted without thinking. And those who acted without thinking were enslaved.
“What if the choice isn’t between certainties, between this faith and that, but between faith and doubt? Between renouncing the mystery and embracing it?”
"I don't know."
Why were these words so difficult?
"Because men want to murder," Achamian had explained afterward. "Because men want their gold and their glory. Because they want beliefs that answer to their fears, their hatreds, and their hungers."
"Men," Kellhus said, "cannot dominate their hunger, so they dominate, domesticate, the objects of their hunger. Be it cattle..."
"Or women," she said breathlessly.
Sitting speechless before the Great Names, Drusas Achamian realized that he held his Heart in one hand and Apocalypse in the other. And as he hefted them in his soul, it seemed that he couldn't tell which was the heavier.
They would sag from the nails that fixed them, collapse into heaps about the base of their trees. And to anyone who listened, they would whisper a revelation... The secret of battle.
Indomitable conviction. Unconquerable belief.
Following the Holy War on its marches to Shimeh, we discover the true depths of Kellhus’ power. He is a terrifying force with the way he can persuade and manipulate people. I wouldn’t call him a villain in the traditional sense, but I would not say he is a hero by any means, at least not one that I would stand behind.
The way he completed dismantled Cnaiür… he reduced a warrior to a mad man. Using Serwë against him, cutting to the heart of his soul. And let’s not forget what he’s done to Esmi!
Her relationship with Achamian was one of my favorite parts about this book. Their love is so genuine and real, and I loved their scenes together. What Kellhus did to her is unforgivable. I cannot stand by what he does; I didn’t fully support him before, but now I can see what he truly is. He’s the antithesis of Paul Atreides.
Another character I found intriguing besides our main three was Cnaiür. His struggle with his feelings towards the Inrithi was really interesting. He has wanted to belong ever since the betrayal that broke him, and for years, his tribe wouldn’t accept him back. Now, he starts living and fighting with his former enemy, and he can’t help but start viewing them as similar to his people. We’re all not so different from each other as we think, and he slowly starts to slightly care, I think. He shows mercy and compassion; he’s formed a sort of bond with Proyas. I find him more fascinating as I keep reading, and I’m intrigued to see how his journey ends.
Speaking of Proyas, I loved his journey with his faith. He is the epitome of a true believer, fully backing Maithanet and this Holy War. But because of his faith, he lost the two people who he was closest to, Xinemus and Achamian, and he starts questioning if that was worth it. By the way, the aftermath of Xinemus and Achamian’s escape was so devastating. I feel so bad for Zin, and Achamian struggling with feeling guilt is so real. Really well written.
Achamian also struggled with his doubt. He was so certain that Kellhus signified hope and was willing to sacrifice everything, his School, his sacred knowledge, his life, everything, for this man. When he comes back and realizes what he’s done to Esmenet, he starts to question what really is worth saving the world. Does he follow his heart or his head?
I think more people are starting to question this Kellhus guy. Of course there were always the doubters, like Conphas, but I have to believe that people will wake up to what he is. Achamian certainly has started to doubt who he is. He destroyed his relationship and only befriended him and took him on as a teacher to secure more knowledge to better manipulate.
This series will continue to get darker, I fear, if that last section was any indication of how brutal and disgusting things can get. I hope it also continues to explore the theme of faith and what monstrosities people are willing to commit in the name of it.
I’m not a religious person myself, and by my saying this, I’m not in any way trying to disparage others for their faith, but I’ve always viewed faith as a sort of crutch for some people. Needing to believe in something greater, to give a purpose to their lives. I’ve also seen the wars that have arisen because of faith. People so certain in their beliefs that they refuse to acknowledge the existence of doubt, calling any non-believer an enemy of god.
Faith and doubt can, and should, coexist. The world always has balance. When faith becomes certainty, destruction and violence follows.
I’m excited that I’ve finally made it to the last book and am ready to finish this journey. I have no idea how this will end. Shimeh is the key to everything, so we’ll see what happens when the forces converge there.
Quotes
"Never again," Achamian said… “Nothing. No man, no School, no threat. Nothing will take you from me again."
"When I can't find you," he said, "or even when you turn away, I feel... I feel hollow, as though my heart's a thing of smoke... Isn't that 'we'?"
Even when one floated, there was always a current…
Always something to fight.
"And 'barbarity,' I fear, is simply a word for unfamiliarity that threatens."
Fate was but one more world-born subterfuge, another lie men used to give meaning to their abject helplessness. That was why they thought the future a Whore, something who favoured no man over another. Something heartbreakingly indifferent.
The heart recited no scripture.
Love is lust made meaningful. Hope is hunger made human.
How does one learn innocence? How does one teach ignorance? For to be them is to know them not. And yet they are the immovable point from which the compass of life swings, the measure of all crime and compassion, the rule of all wisdom and folly. They are the Absolute.
“When we witness, we testify, and when we testify we make ourselves responsible for what we see. And that—that—is what it means to belong."
It was strange, to be known—truly known. To be awaited rather than anticipated. To be accepted instead of believed. To be half another's elaborate habits. To see oneself continually foreshadowed in another's eyes.
Was that not love? To know, to trust a mystery…
And he knew he belonged to Esmi—not the world.
She was his covenant. Esmenet was his wife.
For events to have purpose, their ends had to determine their beginnings, and this was impossible. Things were governed by their origins, not their destinations.
To open a book was not only to seize a moment of helplessness, not only to relinquish a jealous handful of heartbeats to the unpredictable mark of another man's quill, it was to allow oneself to be written. For what was a book if not a long consecutive surrender to the movements of another's soul? Achamian could think of no abandonment of self more profound.
He read, and was moved to chuckle by ironies a thousand years dead, and to reflect pensively on claims and hopes that had far outlived the age of their import.
If women were hope’s oldest companions, it was due to helplessness.
Nothing etched the shape of one’s impotence with more galling meticulousness than the blank passage of time.
Could anything be so clear, so pure? Outstretched like great, fluid arms the holy warriors embraced their enemy. The sermon was simple. Break. Die.
“He who believes he is defeated is defeated.”
The Prophet simply turned and caught the descending blade between his thumb and forefinger. "No," he said, then swept around, knocking the man to the turf with an unbelievable kick.
What made one response more true than another? Was it one's blood? Was it another's words of reason? Was it one's God?
Or was it, as Moënghus had claimed, one's goal?
For what was madness, if not a kind of overpowering impatience, a need to seize at once what the world denied?
Beliefs were the foundation of actions. Those who believed without doubting, he would say, acted without thinking. And those who acted without thinking were enslaved.
“What if the choice isn’t between certainties, between this faith and that, but between faith and doubt? Between renouncing the mystery and embracing it?”
"I don't know."
Why were these words so difficult?
"Because men want to murder," Achamian had explained afterward. "Because men want their gold and their glory. Because they want beliefs that answer to their fears, their hatreds, and their hungers."
"Men," Kellhus said, "cannot dominate their hunger, so they dominate, domesticate, the objects of their hunger. Be it cattle..."
"Or women," she said breathlessly.
Sitting speechless before the Great Names, Drusas Achamian realized that he held his Heart in one hand and Apocalypse in the other. And as he hefted them in his soul, it seemed that he couldn't tell which was the heavier.
They would sag from the nails that fixed them, collapse into heaps about the base of their trees. And to anyone who listened, they would whisper a revelation... The secret of battle.
Indomitable conviction. Unconquerable belief.
July 11, 2021
“Fate was but one more world-born subterfuge, another lie men used to give meaning to their abject helplessness.”
The Warrior Prophet picks up where the previous book left off, chronicling the events of the Holy War where the Inrithi march to reclaim their holy land of Shimeh from the heathens. I liked this book quite a bit more than the first one as it immediately felt more driven and progressed the story a lot further, with the first book detailing the complicated politics before the Holy War actually set off.
Bakker's prose is gorgeous, the sentences are very well constructed, especially in the way he describes broad, sweeping emotions and his usage of metaphors. The action and battle scenes are tense and great to read as well. The only issue I had with the large battles was keeping track of the various complicated names and factions on both sides. The pacing is quite slow, with there being a march, then a battle, then a march, and so on as the Holy War progresses. Each battle mostly feels distinct and separate from the others and so does each march, having its own hardships and ordeals to survive, meaning this didn't feel as repetitive as the structure indicates. The battles and sieges are usually never from the perspective of a common soldier or a fight, but from a sweeping vantage point describing large swathes of the armies clashing. Though it isn't usually my favourite way of describing battles, this perspective combined with the great writing made them very evocative and striking.
“No decision is so fine as to not bind us to its consequences. No consequence is so unexpected as to absolve us of our decisions. Not even death.”
The characters gain further depth in this book as well, I really enjoyed the Esmenet and Achamian PoVs, their characters were fleshed out more and their ordeals were also interesting to read. Their inner dialogue and motivations were really well done, so the character decisions they made felt realistic and not just for the sake of driving the story forward. Kelhus, while not being very deep, was fascinating to read about due to his specific skill-set and his careful manipulation of people, crowds, and events to project a certain image of himself to everyone. I do have some minor concerns over Kelhus seemingly being a perfect person, since in a few instances in this book his actions came off as a tad too unbelievable, but I will reserve judgement as those choices seem to be deliberately building his character in a certain direction.
The book also delves into some of the lore and history of the world and its various races, focusing on the events of the first Apocalypse and its repercussions. These were some of my favourite parts since ancient history is something I love and always look for in epic fantasy worlds, as it helps my immersion in the story and adds a layer of intrigue and mystery over the main story. It also deals with themes of religion, belief, and interweaves philosophy with the story very well. Some of my favourite quotes were the pre-chapter epigraphs that were either excerpts from in-world philosophical texts or religious documents.
“Doubt set men free. Doubt, not truth! Beliefs were the foundation of actions. Those who believed without doubting acted without thinking. And those who acted without thinking were enslaved.”
The political machinations continue as well, with most of the prominent leaders and generals of the army having their own agendas and motivations. This internal conflict helped maintain tension throughout the story, with people falling in and out of favour among the armies, helped along by manipulation of scripture and interpretations of their hardships as either punishments, blessings, or tests set by their God. The Consult and their minions also play a role in the background, with the various skin-spies and their influences in the War's politics. The book also briefly touches upon a few of the non-human races and other eldritch horrors in the end, and I'm very interested to see where that goes. Overall, a fantastic follow-up to the first book, and I'm quite intrigued to see how this arc will be wrapped up in The Thousandfold Thought. Truth shines!
March 29, 2013
This book delivered what The Darkness that Comes Before promised. Outlandish names for the various characters/sects/regions make more sense here and, as a result, the story feels more refined and seamless. In this second installment of the Prince of Nothing series, Bakker offers the reader fantastic scenes of action and depravity while continuing to weave plots through his interesting characters.
Many of the hardships which the army faces remind me of similar situations during Steven Erikson’s Malazan Book of the Fallen. For me personally it felt like Erikson went into too much detail when describing these situations and Bakker seemed to just skim the surface. In Erikson’s case I wanted the story to move on to something different because I was getting tired of being inundated with the same thing over and over. Bakker did a good job of making certain circumstances feel extreme and depressing, but I feel like he just didn’t go deep enough which ultimately made those scenes feel a little hasty for me.
I really enjoyed this book overall and can’t wait to see what happens in the third and final book in the Prince of Nothing series. The Warrior Prophet did a great job of building on what was established in the previous book, but at the same time adding enough intrigue to lure the reader on for the finale.
I’ll give this book a solid 4.5 stars rounded up to a 5.
Many of the hardships which the army faces remind me of similar situations during Steven Erikson’s Malazan Book of the Fallen. For me personally it felt like Erikson went into too much detail when describing these situations and Bakker seemed to just skim the surface. In Erikson’s case I wanted the story to move on to something different because I was getting tired of being inundated with the same thing over and over. Bakker did a good job of making certain circumstances feel extreme and depressing, but I feel like he just didn’t go deep enough which ultimately made those scenes feel a little hasty for me.
I really enjoyed this book overall and can’t wait to see what happens in the third and final book in the Prince of Nothing series. The Warrior Prophet did a great job of building on what was established in the previous book, but at the same time adding enough intrigue to lure the reader on for the finale.
I’ll give this book a solid 4.5 stars rounded up to a 5.
March 27, 2024
So you finish The Darkness that Comes Before and you are thinking….
Man, that was really dark.
It can’t get possibly get darker than that.
Yet it most certainly does.
It’s uncomfortable as so many of these characters are horrid. The men are incredibly terrible in this world.
For all the flack The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant gets…this series is equally cringy. You look for the good to hopefully outshine the bad.
Hey even Jaime Lannister gets people behind him.
Saying all that…this is an absolutely mesmerizing epic. It’s lore, its land, its people and their beliefs.
The battles are absolutely insane. The depictions of the long marches and suffering along the way heartbreaking.
The otherworldly demons terrify. Magics at once frightening and dazzling.
Cnaiur. Simply an amazing and badass character.
I am beyond hooked now and cannot wait to tear into the finale!
Man, that was really dark.
It can’t get possibly get darker than that.
Yet it most certainly does.
It’s uncomfortable as so many of these characters are horrid. The men are incredibly terrible in this world.
For all the flack The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant gets…this series is equally cringy. You look for the good to hopefully outshine the bad.
Hey even Jaime Lannister gets people behind him.
Saying all that…this is an absolutely mesmerizing epic. It’s lore, its land, its people and their beliefs.
The battles are absolutely insane. The depictions of the long marches and suffering along the way heartbreaking.
The otherworldly demons terrify. Magics at once frightening and dazzling.
Cnaiur. Simply an amazing and badass character.
I am beyond hooked now and cannot wait to tear into the finale!
March 23, 2022
When I placed the interlibrary loan request for this book, I had no idea how difficult it would be to keep myself interested in it. It is definitely a book about a brutal war. The description of the sacking of Caraskand alone was horrible. The killing of children, the raping of women, and the senseless destruction of the city—they all turned my stomach. And when I turned from fiction and switched on the news, all I got was the bombardment of Ukraine by Russian forces. There was no escape.
What if Jesus hadn't proclaimed that the meek would inherit the earth? If he had never urged us to love our neighbours as we love ourselves? The titular warrior-prophet, Kellhus, assumes a very Christ-like role in this second book of Bakker's Prince of Nothing series. However, you cannot call him the Prince of Peace. He travels with the armies of the Holy War, holding court around his campfire each evening, talking with his “apostles" and gathering larger and larger audiences. He even has the two women, Esmi and Serwe, as his Mary and Martha. He communes with someone he addresses as Father.
I had intended to read the final book of this trilogy this year, but I now question whether I can stand to. If this book tells me anything, it's that war is abominable and I already know that. These days, I need more lightness and joy in my life and these epic fantasy war epics drag me down. It remains to be seen if I ever finish this series.
Book Number 447 of my Science Fiction and Fantasy Reading Project
What if Jesus hadn't proclaimed that the meek would inherit the earth? If he had never urged us to love our neighbours as we love ourselves? The titular warrior-prophet, Kellhus, assumes a very Christ-like role in this second book of Bakker's Prince of Nothing series. However, you cannot call him the Prince of Peace. He travels with the armies of the Holy War, holding court around his campfire each evening, talking with his “apostles" and gathering larger and larger audiences. He even has the two women, Esmi and Serwe, as his Mary and Martha. He communes with someone he addresses as Father.
I had intended to read the final book of this trilogy this year, but I now question whether I can stand to. If this book tells me anything, it's that war is abominable and I already know that. These days, I need more lightness and joy in my life and these epic fantasy war epics drag me down. It remains to be seen if I ever finish this series.
Book Number 447 of my Science Fiction and Fantasy Reading Project
August 13, 2013
I hope the "bad guys" win because this world needs to end. Of the major Characters only Achamian has any real redeeming qualities. Basically I hope that GRRM writes the third book and kills everybody off.
September 29, 2013
The sequel to The Darkness That Comes Before comes swinging out of the gate, but it spends its creative energies pretty fast. The novel does deliver on the promise of the first book: we get to see the Holy War well under way, and the result is pretty exciting. But most of the story is spent taking characters in unsatisfying directions. The writing is still pretty solid, although Bakker really needs to cut back on his usage of the adverb "fairly."
The biggest problem I had with the story here is Kellhus. There's no reason that he should be presented as a likable character. He's essentially a highly functioning sociopath with no emotion of his own. He has God-like charisma, and is so apt a fighter as to defeat a charging army with ease. He would make an interesting villain, but Bakker is determined to make him a sympathetic messianic figure in the tradition of Dune's Paul Atreides. Ultimately, though, all I could see in Kellhus was the dark fantasy answer to the Mary Sue: an all-powerful being that is irresistibly charming, unaffected by emotional turmoil, and who can read the author's script and use it to his advantage.
I got particularly upset at Kellhus when he started derailing others' character arcs. The case of Esmenet was just sad.
The treatment of Esmenet was disappointing, but then there's Serwë. She deserves some sort of prize for being the most useless and pathetic female character in fantasy. Her only—only!—quality is being amazingly beautiful. Otherwise, she's an airhead. But still she gets POV chapters, and we spend an inordinate amount of time understanding her relationship to Kellhus.
Speaking of violence to women, this book reaches a level of misogyny that borders on the epic. There's a lot of rape going on here. Just to tell you how rapey this book is, at one point the author describes a character's sword striking swiftly across the air as saying it "raped the air." Yeah, it's like that. I don't know if sexual violence is a cornerstone of dark fantasy, but it bothers the hell out of me. Game of Thrones had rape, but it also had resourceful and sympathetic women who expressed how scary they found sexual violence. Here, rape is just thrown around.
Ah, but beyond all that, there's still a lot to like, here. I really like Ikurei Conphas, the glorious bastard. Achamian is by far my favorite character of the lot; he's human, frail, full of doubts and pain, and yet when he gets pissed off, he kicks an obscene amount of ass. I used to really like Cnaiür, but he spends this book glaring and spitting. (Cnaiür spits more than forty times in the course of the book. I counted them.)
The progress of the Holy War was interesting. The external battles with the Fanim are told in the dispassionate style of a historical chronicle, but it's the internal politics of the war that really makes the plot tick. It's great to see nobles and factions scheme against one another just as they march against a common enemy.
The creativity that was such a strong point in the previous book is still there, but it seems to run out of juice pretty fast. Whereas the first book was devilishly inventive, here the setting feels well-trodden, and it mostly relies on elements introduced in the previous book. It doesn't help that the Fanim are a clear Islam analogue after all; the book even employs the word 'Jihad' to describe their concept of a holy war.
All in all, The Warrior Prophet was a disappointing follow-up to The Darkness That Comes Before, but I still care enough about the story that I'll read The Thousandfold Thought. I just hope Kellhus will be less an author vehicle in the sequel, and that all these characters he hoodwinked will wake up to who he really is. And while I'm listing my wishes for the sequel, here's hoping for a woman with more agency and less rape in her life, please.
The biggest problem I had with the story here is Kellhus. There's no reason that he should be presented as a likable character. He's essentially a highly functioning sociopath with no emotion of his own. He has God-like charisma, and is so apt a fighter as to defeat a charging army with ease. He would make an interesting villain, but Bakker is determined to make him a sympathetic messianic figure in the tradition of Dune's Paul Atreides. Ultimately, though, all I could see in Kellhus was the dark fantasy answer to the Mary Sue: an all-powerful being that is irresistibly charming, unaffected by emotional turmoil, and who can read the author's script and use it to his advantage.
I got particularly upset at Kellhus when he started derailing others' character arcs. The case of Esmenet was just sad.
The treatment of Esmenet was disappointing, but then there's Serwë. She deserves some sort of prize for being the most useless and pathetic female character in fantasy. Her only—only!—quality is being amazingly beautiful. Otherwise, she's an airhead. But still she gets POV chapters, and we spend an inordinate amount of time understanding her relationship to Kellhus.
Speaking of violence to women, this book reaches a level of misogyny that borders on the epic. There's a lot of rape going on here. Just to tell you how rapey this book is, at one point the author describes a character's sword striking swiftly across the air as saying it "raped the air." Yeah, it's like that. I don't know if sexual violence is a cornerstone of dark fantasy, but it bothers the hell out of me. Game of Thrones had rape, but it also had resourceful and sympathetic women who expressed how scary they found sexual violence. Here, rape is just thrown around.
Ah, but beyond all that, there's still a lot to like, here. I really like Ikurei Conphas, the glorious bastard. Achamian is by far my favorite character of the lot; he's human, frail, full of doubts and pain, and yet when he gets pissed off, he kicks an obscene amount of ass. I used to really like Cnaiür, but he spends this book glaring and spitting. (Cnaiür spits more than forty times in the course of the book. I counted them.)
The progress of the Holy War was interesting. The external battles with the Fanim are told in the dispassionate style of a historical chronicle, but it's the internal politics of the war that really makes the plot tick. It's great to see nobles and factions scheme against one another just as they march against a common enemy.
The creativity that was such a strong point in the previous book is still there, but it seems to run out of juice pretty fast. Whereas the first book was devilishly inventive, here the setting feels well-trodden, and it mostly relies on elements introduced in the previous book. It doesn't help that the Fanim are a clear Islam analogue after all; the book even employs the word 'Jihad' to describe their concept of a holy war.
All in all, The Warrior Prophet was a disappointing follow-up to The Darkness That Comes Before, but I still care enough about the story that I'll read The Thousandfold Thought. I just hope Kellhus will be less an author vehicle in the sequel, and that all these characters he hoodwinked will wake up to who he really is. And while I'm listing my wishes for the sequel, here's hoping for a woman with more agency and less rape in her life, please.
March 27, 2022
My review on YouTube: https://youtu.be/XDYkWwCu2yk
Wow. The character work in this book is excellent. All I’m going to say is that I think Cnaiur is one of the most well-written characters of the series so far (and a new favourite). So many layers packed into one person. I also enjoyed the pacing of this one more as there is, naturally, more happening compared to book one.
I’ll be doing a full review soon but man, am I excited to pick up book three in April.
Wow. The character work in this book is excellent. All I’m going to say is that I think Cnaiur is one of the most well-written characters of the series so far (and a new favourite). So many layers packed into one person. I also enjoyed the pacing of this one more as there is, naturally, more happening compared to book one.
I’ll be doing a full review soon but man, am I excited to pick up book three in April.
August 29, 2024
5 stars.
Book 1 was already great, but Book 2 was so much better.
I still however cant recommend this book to anyone in good conscience without hundreds of "just fyi - you should know this before getting into it".
Lots of commentary around religious idealism, idols, prophet-worshipping, controlling masses, manipulation. Lots of amazing action as well. Lots of personal moments as well that make you grieve for the characters. Lots of sadness all around.
Overall, this book was an amazing read. Very very insightful and thoughtful.
Book 1 was already great, but Book 2 was so much better.
I still however cant recommend this book to anyone in good conscience without hundreds of "just fyi - you should know this before getting into it".
Lots of commentary around religious idealism, idols, prophet-worshipping, controlling masses, manipulation. Lots of amazing action as well. Lots of personal moments as well that make you grieve for the characters. Lots of sadness all around.
Overall, this book was an amazing read. Very very insightful and thoughtful.
February 28, 2025
Easy five stars.
Absolutely brutal.
Straight out of the book of Judges.
Better than book one in basically every way.
Absolutely brutal.
Straight out of the book of Judges.
Better than book one in basically every way.
August 22, 2019
It certainly still feels like a book that would have been one large one, but also a middle book, since it also, much like the first, has slow world building and plot, and ends on a cliffhanger situation. The unease about the world ramps up as well, as The Consort moves from being unmasked, to being much more present.
Plus, the return of Aka! Hard won. I’m not sure anyone really bought he was killed last book but it’s still quite fun to have him back. Especially since he’s the closest thing to a hero, or sympathetic character, other than the women. But that’s kind of the point, and why it moves from a kind of tropey “evil”, into a much more comprehensive faction, or force. And it’s reinforced by the world building.
Because it’s dark fantasy, you can bet there’s mostly critiques of culture and society, and limitations of humanity, such as a very short memory. On the one hand you have Kellus, who has no real embodiment and whose powers come from philosophy and intellect, but is described as actually purging his personhood and any embodiment he once had in order to obtain it. On the other hand, The Consort is able to strive because they understand humanity in its animal form and outlast the memory of the generations that dealt with the primordial destruction of the larger evil force, possibly now tasked with rebuilding that ancient evil.
The narrative itself is written by Aka though. Itself a question, since the quotes in the book, and possibly the entire book, ostensibly, is the written record of an apocalypse. A second one. Bakker doesn’t really show what the answer to the philosophical questions are. He is more interested in showing the ways why there is no peace and why only terrible things happen with how culture, memory, and values are passed on. The nature of power interacting with those aspects are the “real” evil. Because otherwise humanity would be far more equipped to deal with these issues. Had they people like Nayoor, who learned of the Dunyain and grew from it, or people heeded the generational knowledge of the Consort, or paid attention to the philosophical aspects that Kellus was reared into, the Consort would be identified and much more easily dealt with.
But when either goes to an extreme, grow in power, they become monstrous rather than the tools people need to have some autonomy in the world.
Plot wise, more happens, but not so much as you’d expect in most books. Bakker is a slow burn kind of author. I already know from reading them all where it’s going, so I have a large sense of anticipation this time around. For first timers, I suspect, much like me, the strength of the prose and how novel the book is, probably will carry the reader through (or not).
Plus, the return of Aka! Hard won. I’m not sure anyone really bought he was killed last book but it’s still quite fun to have him back. Especially since he’s the closest thing to a hero, or sympathetic character, other than the women. But that’s kind of the point, and why it moves from a kind of tropey “evil”, into a much more comprehensive faction, or force. And it’s reinforced by the world building.
Because it’s dark fantasy, you can bet there’s mostly critiques of culture and society, and limitations of humanity, such as a very short memory. On the one hand you have Kellus, who has no real embodiment and whose powers come from philosophy and intellect, but is described as actually purging his personhood and any embodiment he once had in order to obtain it. On the other hand, The Consort is able to strive because they understand humanity in its animal form and outlast the memory of the generations that dealt with the primordial destruction of the larger evil force, possibly now tasked with rebuilding that ancient evil.
The narrative itself is written by Aka though. Itself a question, since the quotes in the book, and possibly the entire book, ostensibly, is the written record of an apocalypse. A second one. Bakker doesn’t really show what the answer to the philosophical questions are. He is more interested in showing the ways why there is no peace and why only terrible things happen with how culture, memory, and values are passed on. The nature of power interacting with those aspects are the “real” evil. Because otherwise humanity would be far more equipped to deal with these issues. Had they people like Nayoor, who learned of the Dunyain and grew from it, or people heeded the generational knowledge of the Consort, or paid attention to the philosophical aspects that Kellus was reared into, the Consort would be identified and much more easily dealt with.
But when either goes to an extreme, grow in power, they become monstrous rather than the tools people need to have some autonomy in the world.
Plot wise, more happens, but not so much as you’d expect in most books. Bakker is a slow burn kind of author. I already know from reading them all where it’s going, so I have a large sense of anticipation this time around. For first timers, I suspect, much like me, the strength of the prose and how novel the book is, probably will carry the reader through (or not).
June 21, 2022
Two books in and I can already say for sure, that this series is something special.
It feels like Malazan mixed with Dune, Iliad and a lot of nihilistic phylosophy. I love all of those things and Bakker managed to combine them and add some elements that this series has to offer on its own and it really is a masterpiece.
I even find it hard to review this, because it is just so different than anything I have ever read. I mean, there is amazing worldbuilding, mysterious lore, maybe the most poetic prose I have ever seen in a fantasy book, great story with plot twist, epic battles, well balenced pacing.. but somehow all of that feels like it is just secondary to the sheer weight of phylosophy, themes and subtext of the book.
And that's why I do not mind the extremely dark and nihilistic tone of the series. I think it would not work in almost any other fantasy, because it is just too hopeless and depressing, but because of all the layers of Bakker's writing, it is almost imposible not to be devoured by this.
It was not the most enjoyable read.. it can be very slow sometimes, it is super heavy and characters feel very "mythical" and non-relatable. But despite of that, it hits very very hard and it know I got lot more from it than I would get from some more enjoyable read.
I can not wait to read the third book. Even though I can already guess it is not gonna be happy expirience. 9/10.
It feels like Malazan mixed with Dune, Iliad and a lot of nihilistic phylosophy. I love all of those things and Bakker managed to combine them and add some elements that this series has to offer on its own and it really is a masterpiece.
I even find it hard to review this, because it is just so different than anything I have ever read. I mean, there is amazing worldbuilding, mysterious lore, maybe the most poetic prose I have ever seen in a fantasy book, great story with plot twist, epic battles, well balenced pacing.. but somehow all of that feels like it is just secondary to the sheer weight of phylosophy, themes and subtext of the book.
And that's why I do not mind the extremely dark and nihilistic tone of the series. I think it would not work in almost any other fantasy, because it is just too hopeless and depressing, but because of all the layers of Bakker's writing, it is almost imposible not to be devoured by this.
It was not the most enjoyable read.. it can be very slow sometimes, it is super heavy and characters feel very "mythical" and non-relatable. But despite of that, it hits very very hard and it know I got lot more from it than I would get from some more enjoyable read.
I can not wait to read the third book. Even though I can already guess it is not gonna be happy expirience. 9/10.
July 7, 2022
Wow, don't know what to say really. This is really unique, can't say I've read anything like it. This fantasy series is not for everyone, that's for sure. Anyway, I have no idea what's going to happen, and I love it
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