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MIND MGMT #2

MIND MGMT Volume 2: The Futurist

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We’ve learned some of the secrets of Henry Lyme; now get ready to meet the rest of Mind Management! With the remains of the Management attempting to reform and hot on Lyme’s tail, the former spy is forced to seek help from other defectors around the globe, including the deadly Futurist, Duncan! Meanwhile, losing her memory has barely slowed journalist Meru down, as an attempt on her life puts her back on the hunt for Mind Management—and on a collision course with the terrible truths Lyme has hidden from her!

Collecting: MIND MGMT 7-12, & materiel from Dark Horse Presents & io9

184 pages, Kindle Edition

First published October 9, 2013

23 people are currently reading
542 people want to read

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Matt Kindt

921 books684 followers

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5 stars
808 (43%)
4 stars
728 (39%)
3 stars
261 (14%)
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46 (2%)
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16 (<1%)
Displaying 1 - 30 of 140 reviews
Profile Image for Jan Philipzig.
Author 1 book310 followers
August 18, 2016
Oh my, it finally happened - as off now, I am officially a Matt Kindt fan. I love the way Kindt undermines the seemingly generic, pulpy surface (spies, secret agents, shootouts, murder, etc.) of MIND MGMT with a personal DIY aesthetic, and with underlying, very serious and relevant themes of government corruption, propaganda, and social control. The pulpy surface provides the cheap thrills we crave, ensuring that things never feel preachy, but there is more to Kindt's cartooning than meets the eye. If you enjoy comics on the boundary between genre entertainment and alternative critique, do yourself a favor and give MIND MGMT a try!
Profile Image for Chad.
10.4k reviews1,062 followers
June 7, 2019
Meru and Lyme are being hunted by Lyme's former boss as they try to get out ahead and warn other former Mind Mgmt agents. The book continues to be trippy, with stories in the margins and footers.
(I suggest you read a physical copy as it's hard to turn a digital device on its side without it reorienting.) There are agents with all kinds of mental powers. Just when you think you know where the book is headed the story flips on its ear. The subversive nature of the book will have you second guessing the nature of advertisements and the like, looking for the hidden codes within.

Matt Kindt's art takes time to get used to. It's the main reason why I avoided this story in the past, but the subtle water colors do grow on you.
Profile Image for Peter Derk.
Author 32 books403 followers
April 15, 2016
This is a really entertaining book.

I made a bunch of food in the crock pot recently.

I promise this relates back to this book. Just hang on a sec.

Crock Pot food on Pinterest is bullshit. Utter bullshit.

Here are the foods you can make in the Crock Pot. This is a complete and exhaustive list:

*Pulled Pork
*Spaghetti Sauce
*Chili
*Non-noodle, Non-rice Soups
*Queso and other Melty Party Cheeses

That's it. The rest is garbage and bullshit.

I made:

Chicken, Rice and Broccoli
This dish turned out to be something I've started referring to as "Chicken Moosh." It's fucking awful. It's like if you wanted to eat a Powerbar but felt that Powerbars are just too food like and you need something really repulsive yet still technically edible.

Chicken, Potatos, and Green Beans with Rice
Also awful. I followed the recipe very carefully this time, and I got a moosh. A DIFFERENT kind of moosh, but a moosh nonetheless.

And finally, Beef and Broccoli
Now, this seems simple and like you couldn't fuck it up. And I don't think I fucked it up. I think I put too much faith in the power of the Crock Pot.

Because here's what no one tells you about the Crock Pot. Sure, it's easier than cooking. But it takes like 6 hours, and turns everything from food into a semi-edible goo. This device doesn't cook for you like some benevolent little robot that lives in your kitchen and has dinner ready when you get home. It just changes the state of matter and makes groceries into a foodpaste of sorts.

Fuck you, Pinterest. Fuck you and your mommy bloggers who have these quick and easy Crock Pot recipes that their families love, which aren't really Crock Pot recipes by DIRTY LIES set to beautiful, well-lit photos.

If you are a member of one of these families and someone at home is forcing you to eat this shit, contact me. I will refer you to the proper authorities.

So, I now find myself with a freezer full of moosh.

There was a time in my life when I would have thrown all this moosh in the garbage. Because that's what it is. Garbage. Just because something is edible doesn't mean it can't be in the garbage. I throw away unpopped popcorn kernels even though they're technically edible.

But. I'm trying like hell to pay back a student loan. And so I've gritted my teeth, and I'm eating through all the sludge, the slidge, the cridge, I'm eating through all this food so crappy I made up terms for it because dammit, I wanna kill this debt.

It's like I'm fuckin' John McClane. I know I can cross that glass barefoot. Just mind over matter.

And while I'm eating this shit, I've been reading Mind MGMT. And the story is distracting enough that I mostly forget that I'm eating horrible garbage that will power me through a work day and get me micrometers closer to that distant, distant goal. Mind MGMT has tempered my rage and disappointment, and suppressed my gag reflex just enough.

I thank you, Matt Kindt. And Pinterest? Again, go fuck yourself.
Profile Image for L. McCoy.
742 reviews8 followers
August 6, 2018
Okay, before we begin... tell me the guy on the cover for issue 7 (sorry, couldn’t find good pic for review) don’t look like Cyril Figgis.
description
(⬆️For those of you who don’t know who Cyril Figgis is. BTW, watch Archer!)
So this is what he’s doing nowadays.

What’s it about?
Holy shit, this is a super complex book and I don’t even know where to begin with that question except for the description I gave in my review for volume 1.

Why it gets 5 stars:
The story is great and interesting. In this volume we see it build up even more. I would also say that this may be one of the most unique stories I’ve ever read.
The art is wonderful. Some of the best art in comics I’d say. Such a cool and unique (just like the story) style!
The characters are pretty interesting. My only problem with the first volume was that the characters weren’t interesting but that changes in this volume.
The action scenes are freaking awesome!
This book is suspenseful and full of twists.
This book is weird as fuck which if it is done right I love. This book does it right!
The ending. Holy shit, that ending! That is how you end a fuckin’ comic book volume right there! Wow!

Overall:
Do you like creative and exciting action stories? This is one you gotta look into! Fans of sci-fi, weird shit and espionage will be delighted by this book. For those who aren’t into any of that... what the hell do you like? READ THIS BOOK!

5/5
Profile Image for Dave Schaafsma.
Author 6 books32.1k followers
February 9, 2015
A psychic team, Mind Management, solves complicated cases… How to describe it: Thomas Pynchon meets Philip K. Dick, one reviewer says. Lost. And as with Lost, you are lost in places, and that's part of the mode of storytelling world we're living in. In this one, there are stories told in the margins, footnotes on the margins… Paranoid psychic thriller, where the subconscious figures in the telling as much as conscious rational-logical whodunnitry, with superb art that fits the weirdness/paranoia… like his friend Jeff Lemire's sketchy drawing… seems right for the subject matter….. I like it a lot!
Profile Image for Cale.
3,919 reviews26 followers
January 6, 2015
Arrghh! Even more margin writing! Aside from that obnoxious formatting, this book definitely grows from the last volume, ratcheting up the tension as former Mind MGMT agents are being rounded up by two separate groups for reasons not clearly explained. And even as Meru and Lyme gather allies, tensions within the group are growing, as questions of whom in the group is trustworthy are not being answered. The artwork is as strong as the first volume, with the unique watercolor style working well. Many of the characters showed up in the first volume, but have a lot more to do here. It definitely has forward momentum, moving Volume three up the reading queue.
Profile Image for Shannon Appelcline.
Author 30 books167 followers
July 8, 2014
This volume takes Mind Mgmt up to the next level by creating a complex, layered, multi-leveled story. The main plot line about the continuing exposure of Mind Mgmt is great and the characters (new and old alike) are enjoyable, but the book really excels in the way it deftly melds together multiple narratives in sometimes surprising ways.

Superb!
Profile Image for Wayne McCoy.
4,291 reviews33 followers
December 16, 2013
Mind MGMT returns us to the world of Meru and Henry Lyme. Joining them this time are more agents of Mind Management, including Duncan, who can seem to see the future.

Meru was more of a main character in the first book and she comes across as more of a mysterious character here, and since the first book introduced so much of the world, the book didn't have quite the paranoid feel of the first one. Good points include an easier to follow storyline (or maybe I'm just used to the world), and an interesting extra story at the end of each chapter about an agent named Hulk.

Matt Kindt's art still reminds me a bit of storyboards with it's sketched quality, and there are words running around the edges of the page that add to the existing story, but that adds to the dossier feel of the story. It's another good story, but just not quite as good as the first volume.

I was given a review copy of this graphic novel by Diamond Book Distributors and Netgalley in exchange for an honest review. Thank you for letting me review this book.
Profile Image for Stewart Tame.
2,476 reviews120 followers
January 14, 2017
There's more to this story than appears at first glance, not that that should surprise anybody. We meet more agents and begin to get a sense of where the story might be going. What drives this series is Kindt's masterful handling of psychic powers. We've seen this sort of tale countless times before, but rarely handled this cleverly or believably. There's a sense of paranoia that has one frantically scanning the page for hidden meanings in backgrounds and seemingly casual poses. The story isn't particularly new, but, in Kindt's hands, it feels fresh and innovative. I'm really liking this so far. On to volume 3!
Profile Image for The Lion's Share.
530 reviews91 followers
May 27, 2017
This volume is impressive, but below par to volume 1.

I see this volume a character development, it's about brining the team together.

Again there are many twists and turns and several engaging moments that make me in awe of Kindt all over again.

Such a talented story teller.
Profile Image for Artemy.
1,045 reviews964 followers
June 4, 2016
It gets even crazier! I really like what Kindt is doing with this series. Layers within layers.
Profile Image for Helen.
735 reviews106 followers
July 8, 2018
This is truly a fabulous graphic novel - the second volume of the Mind Mgt series - both the artwork and text by Kindt are fantastic, truly evocative of the semi-hallucinatory/paranoid world of the Mind Mgt organization and the efforts of the "dropouts" or "retirees" to team up, and fight the organization. There are multiple parallel stories, flashbacks, flashforwards, yet every thread is woven together skillfully to advance the narrative. The reader will truly become absorbed in the fast-paced graphic novel.. it is very absorbing.. I am looking forward to further installments of the meandering, complicated tale of a few motley humans trying to get away from Mind Mgt!
Profile Image for Get X Serious.
238 reviews34 followers
September 15, 2016
Yeah, so... dang.

There's really no way to improve on this series. I mean, the story, the art, the fucking layout! It's all perfect. We've got people who can literally manipulate reality with their minds, each in their own special way, and meanwhile Matt Kindt's got this watercolor/mixed media art that actually gives you the impression that reality isn't so... solid, so defined, like you know how watercolor is, right? Some of it is seeping outside the lines. And then there's this layout where there's literally three different stories being told at once, but it's all very coherent and they intertwine perfectly.

The only problem is that my library doesn't have the final two volumes of this yet, so I'm like, fucking nervous about finishing what they do have available. Yeah, it's that good. It's so good that it's giving me anxiety... and I like it.
Profile Image for zxvasdf.
537 reviews49 followers
September 15, 2013
When I reviewed Mind Mgmt Vol 1, I had hoped that there wouldn't be a sequel, because the story felt finished, in that sense that there would still be mystery, but because it was so well told it could rest there in it's glittering wrapping and satin bow.

Well, Matt Kindt had a bigger story to tell. It's obvious it was there all along, and to read Volume 1 is like peering at a map of the world with a magnifying glass. The Futurist has us step back a little, let the scope expand. Mind Management is bigger than any one of us guessed.

It begins similarly to Volume 1, with Meru lost in her livingroom, to a frantic pursuit of clues. Again, this ride takes Meru all over the world, a sort of greatest hits of the previous tome, to gather a few of the still "righteous" disbanded agents of Mind Management. The race is for a list of names of former Mind Management agents because a former agent by the name of The Eraser is seeking to resurrect Mind Management, for nefarious purposes, of course. Otherwise Lyme and Co. wouldn't be scrambling. Yep, Lyme's neck deep in the action now!

Duncan is The Futurist, a man who is perpetually bored. He can sense the thoughts of people within a fifteen mile radius, and from these thoughts he assembles a collage of events which accurately predicts the future. Very rarely does the unknown encounter him, and these moments are to be cherished. He also is able to kill a person with the mere point of his finger because he can see in a person's mind the exact belief to undermine, thus creating in the victim the belief that he is going to die.

Lyme and Co. needs The Futurist because he has the second half of the puzzle. The list is at the former Mind Management HQ, Shangri-La, but nobody knows where it is. Perrier, now half a twin, has the first half, a map. Now... Duncan lives in the future, so how do you catch a man who doesn't want to be found?

With the entire cast of Mind Management Vol 1 and Vol 2 in play, there are revelations abound, and the promise of a potentially world shaking disaster when the psychic warriors of the 21st century take sides. I said Matt Kindt shouldn't make a sequel after Vol 1; now I can't wait for Vol 3. Someday when he's done and Mind Management is bundled in a single massive tome, it'll be required reading for the real Mind Management.

Scott Snyder wrote the introduction to Mind Management Vol 2, and he said that Matt Kindt scares him. (Rather, Matt's book, but, hey, it came from Matt's head.) Because the subject matter of Mind Management is about the malleability of identity. We fall through life blissfully confident in our identity. We are who we say we are. Are we really? What if there's people out there manipulating our core selves through advertising, medicine, mind wiping? We wouldn't know any different. We couldn't! What's left is an existential emptiness, a feeling that something's missing. I believe that's an all too familiar feeling...

And there's Matt Kindt. Maybe Scott Snyder's right to be afraid of him. and maybe we should be like him and be afraid of Matt. Who knows what things he's put in his book, that leap out into our subconscious even as we appreciate his work.

Be careful.

You could be mind managed while you're reading Mind Management.
Profile Image for Craig.
2,887 reviews31 followers
August 29, 2013
I still really like this series, though the story here re-treads some of the same ground as in the first collection. I guess that's kind of the point, as protagonist Meru has to have the wool removed from her eyes, but it still feels a bit too repetitive. Basically, Mind Mgmt is a government agency filled with people who have a variety of mind control or mind-altering powers: an advertising executive can make people want or do things via advertisements; another operative has the power to see the weaknesses in buildings (or people) and use that to destroy them; another has the power to read the minds of all those around him, effectively allowing him to see briefly into the future and anticipate threats, etc. Since the organization has been dissolved, all these people are loose in the world, some using their powers for nefarious purposes, and another former operative is trying to put together his own group to fight some of the worst abuses. The artwork is a bit hard to view on a tablet--I'm sure the finished work is much more readable--but it's great, spare, basic stuff that does just what it needs to to advance the story and keep you reading. I'll definitely be looking forward to more collections in this series, but hope they rebound and move the story more definitely forward. **ARC provided by NetGalley
Profile Image for Nate.
1,974 reviews17 followers
Read
March 14, 2023
A fine follow-up to the first volume, even if there's only one big revelation that's saved for the last issue. Meru has lost all memories from the previous book, and after Lyme finds her, they track down former Mind Management agents to amass a team and take down the organization (which seems to be operating in the shadows after being shut down a while back). Honestly, I'm more interested in the Verve story happening in the margins, and Billy's story at the end of each issue (which nicely ties in to the final issue here). Also, I chuckled at Lyme's line about not liking the art in that comic Meru reads. I'm sure Kindt is very aware of the criticism hurled his way.
Profile Image for Nils.
336 reviews40 followers
September 22, 2018
Spannende Fortsetzung, bei der mich der Zeichenstil immer noch begeistert. Auch die Handlung bleibt spannend, scheint aber etwas zu zerfasern.
Profile Image for Hanna.
202 reviews10 followers
July 27, 2021
Все еще интересно и красочно, история в истории меня захватила, готова ко второму прочтению
Profile Image for Riddhish Bhalodia.
373 reviews1 follower
May 15, 2022
Paranoia drenched, hallucinatory, and incredibly smart. Gonna pick up the next volume immediately.
Profile Image for Eastham Erik.
127 reviews5 followers
November 11, 2018
A required entry to get from A-Z of Matt Kindt's awesome story. As such, only a 3 out of 5 as nothing really new is explored in Volume Two.

New characters are introduced and Henry Lyme is quickly recruiting old members of Mind Management while keeping Meru (who no doubt is a huge piece of the puzzle) as close to him as possible. That is all volume two is; taking the world that volume 1 created and getting us to what will become (or so I believe) the second act.

Mind Management as a whole, so far, is an interesting thriller. The story focuses on the "powers that be" of a retired secret government organization that recruits people with different abilities, all associated with the power of the mind. I look forward to the third volume as the story is fast paced . . . and who doesn't like a mystery? Volume two is simply a necessary stop along the way.
Profile Image for OmniBen.
1,385 reviews47 followers
May 15, 2022
(Zero spoiler review for the omnibus collecting this volume)
I don't think Matt Kindt is for me. Dep.TH was one of the first comic books I ever read, and to say it disappointed me would be an understatement. I had been hoping this was an aberration, and Mind MGMT would prove a more appealing prospect. It certainly had the reviews to back it up. Sadly, I find myself in a similar boat than I did with Dep.TH. Lets just get it out of the way first and foremost, Kindt's art is very much a love it or hate it affair. As much as I tried to force myself to fall for his scrawled and scratchy water colours, I just can't get over the fact that his art continuously lets the story down. The art and the words are meant to tell a story in tandem. Taking it in turns to do the bulk of the heavy lifting, depending on what the story requires. But Kindt's less polished ability means that frequently the art is just there... giving you something to look at, although frequently coming across as underwhelming and not able to cash the cheques the writing is, well, writing. There is a charm of sorts in his larger, pastoral landscapes, although the rest of his work, the actions scenes in particular, look like the pictures your primary school children would being home. I could labour this fact, but I will move on.
If the writing was outstanding, I would be able to overlook the shoddy art. As you may have guessed, this is not the case. It comes across at times as babies first psychological thriller. Kindt certainly had the ambition to tell a vast and sprawling tale, it's just that he doesn't quite have the talent to pull it off. It's the same old story that kept me from digging Dep.TH more than I did. A compelling idea, averagely executed. I admire Kindt for being able to write and draw his own stories. It's just that he isn't that good at either of them. At least not as good as everyone seems to think anyway. Again, I won't labour the point as his material is hardly offensively bad. It's just not what I would like.
I would suggest checking out Kindt's art style before you invest in his stories. If you can handle staring at his panels for a thousand pages or so, then MindMGMT is worth a look, just go in with your expectations somewhat in check. 3/5


OmniBen.
Profile Image for Alex Memus.
457 reviews43 followers
June 12, 2021
The 1st reading (2018):
The story and overall structure of the book got better. Now Kindt's interesting art actually helps to tell a story. And the world-building is better than ever: it's like a deep dive in mind mgmt agency.
However, the book references the first volume too much. To a degree of me getting a deja vu. Which makes it predictable. Also, most characters in the book are simply assholes. Like different versions of Kilgrave from Jessica Jones. I don't care who of them does what and who fights who. They're not real people and not nice people. And the main conflict in the book doesn't have any philosophical dispute behind it. Why do characters fight each other? No reason.

The 2nd reading (2021):
Changed the rating from 3 to 5 stars. I was blind. I wasn't pre-programmed the right way to see Shangri-La: that is the diamond that this book is. Art is perfect. Story is gripping. All the references to philosophy and religion on how the mind (potentially) works are straight to the point. Even the Russian in the book is legit. These book does retcons better than F&F movies and that should be impossible.
Profile Image for Briana.
451 reviews
April 10, 2014
Illustrations : Watercolors

After reading Volume 1, I was not sure whether this plot was genius or crap. The line between the two is a fine one, I think. Apparently, I'm one of the few readers who have decided this story is crap. I suppose people who are into spies and espionage would be in to this.

In Volume 2, the story seems to expand without answering questions to the many mysteries in the first volume. I get the feeling everything is going to keep expanding and never make any sense. Kind of like Lost. It leaves you with the sense of feeling unreal. Nothing can be trusted. It could all be a dream. I want some substance to my story!

I found the art to be lackluster compared to Volume 1.

Also, at one point in the beginning...there are three different storylines happening at once. My brain cannot handle that kind of chaos. This is what technology is doing to our authors. They are getting all ADD. One story is not good enough. There has to be ten in one and they all mysteriously fit together! No. >.>

Leave it on the shelf.
Profile Image for Matt Graupman.
1,056 reviews20 followers
June 3, 2017
Mind Management is back... or at least someone is trying to reactivate the decommissioned government agency of psychics, telepaths, and various other gifted individuals. In the middle of it all is amnesiac journalist Meru, documenting everything, unaware that she is destined to play a much bigger role in the secretive group. "Mind MGMT, Vol. 2: The Futurist" is exactly where I hoped Matt Kindt would take the series after the somewhat underwhelming first arc. It's tons of fun!

A lot of reviews on here say that this volume is not as good as the first but I'm of the exact opposite opinion: I think this volume is much more confident, well-paced, and grounded. While there are still the outrageous abilities that make the agents special assets, this arc of "Mind MGMT" feels more plausible. The locations, plot, and characters all feel more realistic this time around; it's kind of like when the original comic book-y "Captain America: The First Avenger" movie was followed by the more action/spy thriller-ish "Captain America: The Winter Soldier." This latest volume hits all the right espionage story beats, tweaked just enough by Kindt to keep the reader guessing. Though his story sometimes gets derailed by the addition of case files, flashbacks, and Mind Management protocol reminders, I thought "The Futurist" was more coherent and rewarding to read.

The combination of Kindt's boundless creativity, lovely watercolor work, and (now) relaxed storytelling style has really let "Mind MGMT" hit its stride. It's the best parts of James Bond and superheroes rolled into one rip-roaring comic. I'm super-interested to see where Meru, Lyme, and the rest of the Mind Management agents end up next.
Profile Image for Rick Ray.
3,545 reviews38 followers
August 5, 2025
Meru's eyes were opened to the clandestine world of MIND MGMT, a secret agency that has employed a level of shadow control over many of the world's events and despite it's current relatively defunct status, still has active operatives. One such operative is The Eraser, who now tries to reform the agency and have Meru assassinated if she can't be recruited away from Henry Lyme. For his part, Lyme begins to recruit for a counter-operation against The Eraser, starting first with fellow former agents Perrier (one half of a psychic twin sister duo) and Dusty. The team also picks up Duncan Jones, AKA The Futurist, an agent who has the ability to see into his own future. Duncan's powers indicate that Lyme is manipulating Meru for his own use, which posits the central tension of this volume. It's only after Lyme's team breaks into the MIND MGMT headquarters of Shangri-la that Meru learns her own history and pieces together a bit more of Lyme's plan. The volume ends with with The Eraser's team defeated, but Meru departs with Bill, the CIA agent who first worked with her in Mexico in the previous volume.

A series that continues to be an entertaining read, though this volume lacks a little of the great buildup towards a climax like the first volume did. Still, the series manages to remain slick with Kindt's stellar writing and moody and stylish artwork.
Profile Image for Rocky Sunico.
2,277 reviews25 followers
January 5, 2020
So to some degree, this volume starts out feeling like a reboot as Meru's memories of everything that she had learned about Mind Management had been erased from her mind at the end of the first book. But this cycle is a persistent one and it seems the truth is inevitable. Thus we dive back again into the mysteries of this secret organization with dormant ex-members all over the world living new lives.

The first book was thrilling but was ultimately just about setting up the stage for greater storytelling. This second volume amps things up as we have Lyme gathering strength to face off the other faction of former Mind Management agents who have their own agenda. A lot of what we learned about individual agents in the bonus material of the first book becomes more important here as we actually encounter the characters in the story and they go on to reveal which side of the conflict they've chosen.

It's everything that was great about the first book and more with more surprising twists and reveals about just about every character in the book, especially Meru. What can any of us believe anymore?
Profile Image for Amy.
459 reviews50 followers
July 29, 2019
The best part about this collection? The recap of the previous volume at the start. Which I was very grateful for as it's been something like 3+ years since I first read volume one.

I love the art style in this. Not just the literal drawings, which have a wonderful sketchy rough quality to them, but the way Kindt uses the page and pannels in such a creative way. This isn't "just" basic storyboarding, he takes full advantage of the comics medium to tell his story - which yes can be annoying with the text written in the margins, but it's nice to see something different all the same.

As for the story itself, I really enjoyed it. Complex and gripping, with plenty of twists and turns and mysteries. I wouldn't say the characters have that much depth, characterisation takes a backseat to plot, but it's clear that not everyone is who they seem that there's a lot of secrets still to come out.
Profile Image for Nate Hipple.
1,087 reviews14 followers
June 14, 2020
This book keeps up the first's hot streak, settling deeper into the mystery. The marginalia remains fascinating and the story compelling. I could understand some readers being pushed away by a group of liars who've had their minds manipulated trying to solve a mystery since it gives you very little stable ground to stand on at any given moment, but I find it absolutely fascinating. I do hope the pace of the answers does start to pick up soon, though. Still, so many cool ideas stuffed in these pages.
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