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Real Church: Does it exist? Can I find it?
"Church as I know it usually leaves deep parts of me dormant, unawakened, and untouched. I don't much like going. So, what now?"
What's happening to the Church? Why are so many people who for decades have been faithful, steady churchgoers (and others who want to start going to church but can't seem to find one that meets their needs) losing interest in even attending church, let alone getting involved? What is fundamentally wrong with the "types" of churches (Seeker, Bible, Emergent, Liberal, Evangelical) that dot the religious landscape? Larry Crabb believes it is time to rethink the entire foundation and focus of what we know today as church -- everything we're doing and are wanting to see happen. In his most honest and vulnerable book to date, the author reveals his own struggles in this area and then offers a compelling vision of why God designed us to live in community with Him and others, and what the church he wants to be a part of looks like.
224 pages, Kindle Edition
First published April 1, 2009
10 people are currently reading
117 people want to read
About the author
Larry Crabb
113 books237 followersLawrence J. Crabb Jr.
Larry Crabb is a well-known Christian psychologist, conference and seminar speaker, Bible teacher, and author of more than 25 books—including his most recent, When God’s Ways Make No Sense and two Gold Medallion award-winners Inside Out and Understanding People. He is also the founder/director of NewWay Ministries & most recently his "legacy ministry", LargerStory.com. In addition to various other speaking and teaching opportunities, Crabb offers a week-long School of Spiritual Direction held each year here at The Cove and the Glen Eyrie in CO. He currently is scholar-in-residence at Colorado Christian University. Larry and his wife of 50 years, Rachael, reside near Charlotte, N.C.
Larry Crabb is a well-known Christian psychologist, conference and seminar speaker, Bible teacher, and author of more than 25 books—including his most recent, When God’s Ways Make No Sense and two Gold Medallion award-winners Inside Out and Understanding People. He is also the founder/director of NewWay Ministries & most recently his "legacy ministry", LargerStory.com. In addition to various other speaking and teaching opportunities, Crabb offers a week-long School of Spiritual Direction held each year here at The Cove and the Glen Eyrie in CO. He currently is scholar-in-residence at Colorado Christian University. Larry and his wife of 50 years, Rachael, reside near Charlotte, N.C.
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August 21, 2020
In Real Church, Larry Crabb sets out to answer the questions that his subtitle suggests: Does it exist? Can I find it? Throughout the work, he asks question upon question and offers critique after critique, but in my opinion, he ultimately fails to provide anything close to a satisfactory answer.
When I began to read the book, I was hopeful and sympathized with some of the questions being asked. Indeed, I respect and appreciate his vulnerability. I also think it is a good and necessary thing for the Church to consistently ask prodding and uncomfortable questions, so long as they push us towards faithfulness to Christ. And I did appreciate many of the indictments Crabb made against American evangelicalism as expressed in churches fueled by consumerism and individualism.
The Church must continually be seeking conformity to Christ by the Spirit. As the classic Reformation mantra goes, “Semper Reformanda.” To be “always reforming” is to be constantly becoming more like Jesus. But from where does this conformity, this “reformation,” come? From the work of the Spirit through the Word of God. Any suggestion for what the Church is to be, and how it is to become more faithful, must come from the Scriptures. The Bible presents God’s will for his people and is sufficient (2 Tim 3:16-17).
It is here where I believe Crabb went off track. In fact, from the get go, his question was framed entirely wrong. He began by asking, “What do I want in a church?” rather than “What does God, as he has revealed in Scripture, want in a church?” From there forward, the entire book was misdirected. In fact, the never-ending occurrence of “I…I…I…” is just one example of Crabb’s extreme self-focus. From cover to cover, this book was concerned with expressing the author’s personal desires for a church. Seemingly all Crabb did was complain and ask questions, but after reading the book, there was no resolution. He even seemed to just plain contradict himself at points. And this is not even to explore the issues with some of his analogies and statements. For example, what the heck is up with the idea that “church was designed by God to be the dance studio” (p. 15)? Like what does this even mean? Several things that Crabb said were just plain odd, which didn’t help his case.
Near the end of the book, he writes, “I need community. I believe that…I need to meet together with other Christians on a regular, at least weekly, basis. I cannot read my Bible and deny that that’s what God wants me to do. But I’m not at all persuaded that I need what Western Christians, especially American evangelicals, think of as church: a Sunday event with music and preaching; official spiritual leadership; a designated place to meet…” (p. 135). It should be noted that while Crabb may have some valid criticisms of Western evangelical church practices, he always lumps in what are right and good biblical practices. For instance, his criticism of “official spiritual leadership” seems to be in direct opposition to not only all of Church history, but to the expressed will of God in Scripture (e.g., Titus 1:5; 1 Tim 3). Only a few lines later he says, “And nothing is wrong—and much is right—with all of it. But I can take it or leave it…” (p. 135-36). This does not seem to be a very helpful attitude.
Honestly, this book just felt hopeless and depressing. Self-examination is fine, and vulnerability can be quite powerful. But overall, Real Church was full of questions with no real answers or hope. Crabb was simply obsessed with what he is looking for in a church and what he thinks a church should look like. The tone was tiring and it came across as selfish and self-centered. In many ways, it was worse than the books that advertise “I’ve found the problem with American Christianity, and here is how to solve it!” At least those books offer some sort of vision for a solution. In fact, I worry that this book may even cause harm and give individuals excuses to abandon the church for selfish, un-biblical reasons.
Oddly enough, I found his final chapter to be the best in the entire book. After admitting that ‘Real Church’ does exist, he acknowledges an even better question than ‘Can I find it?’: “Could I stop complaining about what I find missing church and stop criticizing what I think is wrong and, instead, start celebrating whatever God is doing…and start contributing to wherever it’s happening?” (p. 145). “YES!” I screamed inside. If only he would have asked himself that before writing the entire book… In the closing pages, Crabb lists four things that a ‘Real Church’ does and doesn’t do (p. 152-53). I found myself agreeing with every one of his points! Honestly, this just added to my confusion, since I struggled through most of the book and disagreed with a lot, but then every once in a while, and here at the very end, I found myself saying “amen.”
Perhaps the main reason is because I personally have such a disconnect with the questions Crabb was even asking, and the premises from which they arose. In my admittedly few years of following Christ and being a part of a church, I have never woken up on a Sunday and thought, “Ugh, I really don’t want to gather with my brothers and sisters in Christ to worship our Triune God…” (i.e., “I don’t want to go to church…”). I would assume that I am functioning from a fundamentally different ecclesiology and understanding of the church than Crabb is, and hence, I couldn’t really relate with the things he was concerned with complaining on and on about. Maybe it is this disconnect that led me to miss the point Crabb was really trying to make, or any solutions he attempted to offer. But overall, I was extremely unsatisfied with this book. To be completely frank, it was a struggle to complete it and once I did, I felt like I had simply wasted my time. Does ‘Real Church’ exist? And can I find it? After reading Crabb’s book, I wouldn’t know. But I thank God that through the study of his Word, and the experience of my own local church, I can answer a resounding ‘Yes’ to both of those questions.
When I began to read the book, I was hopeful and sympathized with some of the questions being asked. Indeed, I respect and appreciate his vulnerability. I also think it is a good and necessary thing for the Church to consistently ask prodding and uncomfortable questions, so long as they push us towards faithfulness to Christ. And I did appreciate many of the indictments Crabb made against American evangelicalism as expressed in churches fueled by consumerism and individualism.
The Church must continually be seeking conformity to Christ by the Spirit. As the classic Reformation mantra goes, “Semper Reformanda.” To be “always reforming” is to be constantly becoming more like Jesus. But from where does this conformity, this “reformation,” come? From the work of the Spirit through the Word of God. Any suggestion for what the Church is to be, and how it is to become more faithful, must come from the Scriptures. The Bible presents God’s will for his people and is sufficient (2 Tim 3:16-17).
It is here where I believe Crabb went off track. In fact, from the get go, his question was framed entirely wrong. He began by asking, “What do I want in a church?” rather than “What does God, as he has revealed in Scripture, want in a church?” From there forward, the entire book was misdirected. In fact, the never-ending occurrence of “I…I…I…” is just one example of Crabb’s extreme self-focus. From cover to cover, this book was concerned with expressing the author’s personal desires for a church. Seemingly all Crabb did was complain and ask questions, but after reading the book, there was no resolution. He even seemed to just plain contradict himself at points. And this is not even to explore the issues with some of his analogies and statements. For example, what the heck is up with the idea that “church was designed by God to be the dance studio” (p. 15)? Like what does this even mean? Several things that Crabb said were just plain odd, which didn’t help his case.
Near the end of the book, he writes, “I need community. I believe that…I need to meet together with other Christians on a regular, at least weekly, basis. I cannot read my Bible and deny that that’s what God wants me to do. But I’m not at all persuaded that I need what Western Christians, especially American evangelicals, think of as church: a Sunday event with music and preaching; official spiritual leadership; a designated place to meet…” (p. 135). It should be noted that while Crabb may have some valid criticisms of Western evangelical church practices, he always lumps in what are right and good biblical practices. For instance, his criticism of “official spiritual leadership” seems to be in direct opposition to not only all of Church history, but to the expressed will of God in Scripture (e.g., Titus 1:5; 1 Tim 3). Only a few lines later he says, “And nothing is wrong—and much is right—with all of it. But I can take it or leave it…” (p. 135-36). This does not seem to be a very helpful attitude.
Honestly, this book just felt hopeless and depressing. Self-examination is fine, and vulnerability can be quite powerful. But overall, Real Church was full of questions with no real answers or hope. Crabb was simply obsessed with what he is looking for in a church and what he thinks a church should look like. The tone was tiring and it came across as selfish and self-centered. In many ways, it was worse than the books that advertise “I’ve found the problem with American Christianity, and here is how to solve it!” At least those books offer some sort of vision for a solution. In fact, I worry that this book may even cause harm and give individuals excuses to abandon the church for selfish, un-biblical reasons.
Oddly enough, I found his final chapter to be the best in the entire book. After admitting that ‘Real Church’ does exist, he acknowledges an even better question than ‘Can I find it?’: “Could I stop complaining about what I find missing church and stop criticizing what I think is wrong and, instead, start celebrating whatever God is doing…and start contributing to wherever it’s happening?” (p. 145). “YES!” I screamed inside. If only he would have asked himself that before writing the entire book… In the closing pages, Crabb lists four things that a ‘Real Church’ does and doesn’t do (p. 152-53). I found myself agreeing with every one of his points! Honestly, this just added to my confusion, since I struggled through most of the book and disagreed with a lot, but then every once in a while, and here at the very end, I found myself saying “amen.”
Perhaps the main reason is because I personally have such a disconnect with the questions Crabb was even asking, and the premises from which they arose. In my admittedly few years of following Christ and being a part of a church, I have never woken up on a Sunday and thought, “Ugh, I really don’t want to gather with my brothers and sisters in Christ to worship our Triune God…” (i.e., “I don’t want to go to church…”). I would assume that I am functioning from a fundamentally different ecclesiology and understanding of the church than Crabb is, and hence, I couldn’t really relate with the things he was concerned with complaining on and on about. Maybe it is this disconnect that led me to miss the point Crabb was really trying to make, or any solutions he attempted to offer. But overall, I was extremely unsatisfied with this book. To be completely frank, it was a struggle to complete it and once I did, I felt like I had simply wasted my time. Does ‘Real Church’ exist? And can I find it? After reading Crabb’s book, I wouldn’t know. But I thank God that through the study of his Word, and the experience of my own local church, I can answer a resounding ‘Yes’ to both of those questions.
November 7, 2011
The first half of this book focused on what's wrong with churches today. This was actually the more powerful part of the book, and by inference gave a good description of what church should be. Not just church as an organization, but individuals in the church.
The second part of the book was still good, but a little disappointing and frustrating. It tried to talk about the characteristics of a good church, but since the author was envisioning something he'd never really seen, it was a fuzzy vision and left me wondering if it even existed.
So, the two questions posed in the book title were never really answered, and this book served better as a guide to problems that commonly arise in churches.
Overall the book is written in a easy to read conversational style, and the author's sincerity shines through. The two questions posed in the book title were never really answered, and this book served better as a guide to problems that commonly arise in churches.
The second part of the book was still good, but a little disappointing and frustrating. It tried to talk about the characteristics of a good church, but since the author was envisioning something he'd never really seen, it was a fuzzy vision and left me wondering if it even existed.
So, the two questions posed in the book title were never really answered, and this book served better as a guide to problems that commonly arise in churches.
Overall the book is written in a easy to read conversational style, and the author's sincerity shines through. The two questions posed in the book title were never really answered, and this book served better as a guide to problems that commonly arise in churches.
November 30, 2010
Gregg and I read this on our Thanksgiving trip. It gives you things to think about, but it doesn't give answers...which make sense...but... It is his journey of struggling with "church" (not Jesus) and what God might desire it to look like.
Larry talks about four different aspects that he thinks each church should provide:
spiritual theology (understanding God's love story)
spiritual formation (the Holy Spirit changing us)
spiritual community ("the laboratory for learning to love like Jesus is community")
spiritual mission (includes personal evangelims and social justice)
The end of the book has some sample chapters from his latest book which looks very curious and helpful...
66 Love Letters: Discover the Larger Story of the Bible One Book at a Time.
Larry talks about four different aspects that he thinks each church should provide:
spiritual theology (understanding God's love story)
spiritual formation (the Holy Spirit changing us)
spiritual community ("the laboratory for learning to love like Jesus is community")
spiritual mission (includes personal evangelims and social justice)
The end of the book has some sample chapters from his latest book which looks very curious and helpful...
66 Love Letters: Discover the Larger Story of the Bible One Book at a Time.
August 20, 2024
THE POPULAR CHRISTIAN PSYCHOLOGIST SAYS FRANKLY, "I DON'T WANT TO GO TO CHURCH"
Lawrence ("Larry") J. Crabb, Jr. is a psychologist, author, teacher and speaker, who is Spiritual Director for the American Association of Christian Counselors, and since 1996 has been Scholar-in-Residence of Colorado Christian University. He has written many other books such as 'Effective Biblical Counseling,' 'Basic Principles of Biblical Counseling,' 'Finding God,' 'Inside Out,' 'The Silence of Adam,' 'Men & Women,' etc.
Dr. Crabb is often quite blunt and honest in his books about his personal struggles and trials, but this 2009 book is almost startingly so. He wrote in the Preface, "I don't much like going to church. I wonder whether I meet the real Jesus there... In most evangelical church services that I've attended, my hunger for truth that transforms, for love that liberates, is rarely satisfied... I began 2008 with [a] question burning a hole in my mind and heart: The church I want to go to---where is it? What is it?... I decided to think more about it. I think best with a pen in my hand. Hence this little book." (Pg. xiv)
He wonders, "is church... people like me who want to hang out with others who don't love all that well but who, in their brokenness, admit it and long to change; who are willing, and eventually eager, to get involved in a messed-up work with messed-up people... because they believe that every moment of loving well makes the world a little less awful, even a little better, a little more of what God had in mind? The church I want to be part of... will teach spiritual theology that stirs a hunger for spiritual formation that surfaces the need for spiritual community that then marshals its resources for spiritual mission. That's the pencil sketch. When you finish this book... the version that is waiting for you on the final pages, will help you see it better." (Pg. xviii-xix)
He suggests, "A gathering becomes a church when people meet for one supreme purpose, NOT to enjoy life, NOT to help others enjoy life, NOT to persuade others to find life in Jesus, but to become like Jesus in their motives, thoughts, and appetites..." (Pg. 16) He adds, "I don't have much interest in going to a church that values thirst for God less than service for God, and therefore reduces authenticity to confession of surface faults and to inspiring, sometimes harshly moralistic, accountability." (Pg. 47) He summarizes, "I want to be part of a church that knows two things clearly: (1) that I'm a mess, and (2) that God is love. I lose sight of both so easily." (Pg. 60)
He says, "I need church. I need to receive the truth that church is designed to powerfully communicate. I need a crack house-like church that will hook me on spiritual crack and then will relentlessly feed my new addiction through the lives of fellow addicts until I live my life in this world as a person gladly addicted to God, a true worshiper, a true follower of Jesus." (Pg. 83)
He concludes, "So it all comes down to this: 1. A real church doesn't entertain its people on Sunday mornings... A real church knows tough times are ahead... 2. A real church ... pleads with God's Spirit... to keep spiritually forming its people until they see Jesus as their supreme treasure no matter how they feel... 3. A real church never values participating in programs above relating in community... 4. A real church knows that doing good in this world has little redemptive power unless the do-gooders know Jesus..." (Pg. 152)
This book will obviously shock and repulse some readers (even many who love Dr. Crabb's other books), but it's a question that is well worth asking, and pondering---whether one agrees with him 100%, or not.
Lawrence ("Larry") J. Crabb, Jr. is a psychologist, author, teacher and speaker, who is Spiritual Director for the American Association of Christian Counselors, and since 1996 has been Scholar-in-Residence of Colorado Christian University. He has written many other books such as 'Effective Biblical Counseling,' 'Basic Principles of Biblical Counseling,' 'Finding God,' 'Inside Out,' 'The Silence of Adam,' 'Men & Women,' etc.
Dr. Crabb is often quite blunt and honest in his books about his personal struggles and trials, but this 2009 book is almost startingly so. He wrote in the Preface, "I don't much like going to church. I wonder whether I meet the real Jesus there... In most evangelical church services that I've attended, my hunger for truth that transforms, for love that liberates, is rarely satisfied... I began 2008 with [a] question burning a hole in my mind and heart: The church I want to go to---where is it? What is it?... I decided to think more about it. I think best with a pen in my hand. Hence this little book." (Pg. xiv)
He wonders, "is church... people like me who want to hang out with others who don't love all that well but who, in their brokenness, admit it and long to change; who are willing, and eventually eager, to get involved in a messed-up work with messed-up people... because they believe that every moment of loving well makes the world a little less awful, even a little better, a little more of what God had in mind? The church I want to be part of... will teach spiritual theology that stirs a hunger for spiritual formation that surfaces the need for spiritual community that then marshals its resources for spiritual mission. That's the pencil sketch. When you finish this book... the version that is waiting for you on the final pages, will help you see it better." (Pg. xviii-xix)
He suggests, "A gathering becomes a church when people meet for one supreme purpose, NOT to enjoy life, NOT to help others enjoy life, NOT to persuade others to find life in Jesus, but to become like Jesus in their motives, thoughts, and appetites..." (Pg. 16) He adds, "I don't have much interest in going to a church that values thirst for God less than service for God, and therefore reduces authenticity to confession of surface faults and to inspiring, sometimes harshly moralistic, accountability." (Pg. 47) He summarizes, "I want to be part of a church that knows two things clearly: (1) that I'm a mess, and (2) that God is love. I lose sight of both so easily." (Pg. 60)
He says, "I need church. I need to receive the truth that church is designed to powerfully communicate. I need a crack house-like church that will hook me on spiritual crack and then will relentlessly feed my new addiction through the lives of fellow addicts until I live my life in this world as a person gladly addicted to God, a true worshiper, a true follower of Jesus." (Pg. 83)
He concludes, "So it all comes down to this: 1. A real church doesn't entertain its people on Sunday mornings... A real church knows tough times are ahead... 2. A real church ... pleads with God's Spirit... to keep spiritually forming its people until they see Jesus as their supreme treasure no matter how they feel... 3. A real church never values participating in programs above relating in community... 4. A real church knows that doing good in this world has little redemptive power unless the do-gooders know Jesus..." (Pg. 152)
This book will obviously shock and repulse some readers (even many who love Dr. Crabb's other books), but it's a question that is well worth asking, and pondering---whether one agrees with him 100%, or not.
December 3, 2019
The book was alright. He makes some good points and I resonate with the sentiment that church in America falls short. At the same time, the whining is incessant. Not a terrible read but nothing to write home about either.
July 7, 2020
The last half of the book is more meaningful than the first.
Really challenges what most people settle for as "church", as well as a critique of the "missional" movement.
Really challenges what most people settle for as "church", as well as a critique of the "missional" movement.
July 22, 2012
Real Church - Larry Crabb - Net Out - July 22, 2012
In this book the author diagnoses the modern American evangelical church’s problems correctly I believe. I have some differences of opinion in what the solutions to those problems are.
The problem: p135 - I’m not at all persuaded that I need what Western Christians, especially American evangelicals, think of as a church: a Sunday event with music and preaching; official spiritual leadership; a designated place to meet; church-sponsored and supervised small groups for Bible study, prayer, fellowship, support, and recovery; the inevitable committee meetings; informal conversations at planned or unplanned social occasions.
The solution: p143 - I want to be part of a church that knows we’re all addicted to ourselves in one way or another, that meets together as a truth-hungry, formation-focused, community-centered, and missionally energized Christians, all for one purpose: to hear the music that will transform us into God addicts.
My favorite quotes:
1. p13 - Unless the Spirit shows us what most delights (and offends) the Father when we get together, we will come up with all sorts of ideas and hopes and ways of doing things like worship and preaching and small groups that will have one devilish thing in common, one devilish thing that we will regard as angelic: manageability. We’ll pull it off, we’ll make something happen, and we’ll call it church. Unbroken people set our sights on things we can manage.
2. p54 - I don’t want to go to a church that tells me I can make my life better, that I can follow Jesus to get the blessings I want in this life, that the good life for me is the point of living for Christ now.
5. p64 - We’ll neither feel our deepest desires nor face our worst problems unless the Spirit exposes both.
6. p90 - Addiction to self is universal. It’s the essence of sin. As nothing else, it gets in the way of what God wants to do in us and through us.
7. p94 - 1 Cor 6:12 MSSG - “Just because something is technically legal doesn’t mean it is spiritually appropriate. If I went around doing whatever I could get by with, I’d be a slave to my whims.”
8. p114 - The only way I’ll ever learn to be thankful for how empty or alone I sometimes feel (which I hate) is to understand that experiencing soul pain is like having a hearing aid given to me by God to let me hear notes of heaven’s music I otherwise couldn’t hear.
9. p119 - A church that’s hungry for truth becomes a church focused on formation. When Christians wake up to realize that truth is not an orderly group of theological-sounding sentences properly punctuated in a doctrinal statement, when they understand that truth is a way to live that is willing to endure any level of discomfort for the sake of its source, then a truth-hungry church becomes a formation-hungry church.
10. p140 - I want to be part of a church that knows conflict is inevitable, whose members view conflict as an opportunity to develop more of Christ’s character as they move into the conflict, not around it.
In this book the author diagnoses the modern American evangelical church’s problems correctly I believe. I have some differences of opinion in what the solutions to those problems are.
The problem: p135 - I’m not at all persuaded that I need what Western Christians, especially American evangelicals, think of as a church: a Sunday event with music and preaching; official spiritual leadership; a designated place to meet; church-sponsored and supervised small groups for Bible study, prayer, fellowship, support, and recovery; the inevitable committee meetings; informal conversations at planned or unplanned social occasions.
The solution: p143 - I want to be part of a church that knows we’re all addicted to ourselves in one way or another, that meets together as a truth-hungry, formation-focused, community-centered, and missionally energized Christians, all for one purpose: to hear the music that will transform us into God addicts.
My favorite quotes:
1. p13 - Unless the Spirit shows us what most delights (and offends) the Father when we get together, we will come up with all sorts of ideas and hopes and ways of doing things like worship and preaching and small groups that will have one devilish thing in common, one devilish thing that we will regard as angelic: manageability. We’ll pull it off, we’ll make something happen, and we’ll call it church. Unbroken people set our sights on things we can manage.
2. p54 - I don’t want to go to a church that tells me I can make my life better, that I can follow Jesus to get the blessings I want in this life, that the good life for me is the point of living for Christ now.
5. p64 - We’ll neither feel our deepest desires nor face our worst problems unless the Spirit exposes both.
6. p90 - Addiction to self is universal. It’s the essence of sin. As nothing else, it gets in the way of what God wants to do in us and through us.
7. p94 - 1 Cor 6:12 MSSG - “Just because something is technically legal doesn’t mean it is spiritually appropriate. If I went around doing whatever I could get by with, I’d be a slave to my whims.”
8. p114 - The only way I’ll ever learn to be thankful for how empty or alone I sometimes feel (which I hate) is to understand that experiencing soul pain is like having a hearing aid given to me by God to let me hear notes of heaven’s music I otherwise couldn’t hear.
9. p119 - A church that’s hungry for truth becomes a church focused on formation. When Christians wake up to realize that truth is not an orderly group of theological-sounding sentences properly punctuated in a doctrinal statement, when they understand that truth is a way to live that is willing to endure any level of discomfort for the sake of its source, then a truth-hungry church becomes a formation-hungry church.
10. p140 - I want to be part of a church that knows conflict is inevitable, whose members view conflict as an opportunity to develop more of Christ’s character as they move into the conflict, not around it.
April 27, 2010
I have to be honest and say that I had a very hard time getting interested in Real Church by Larry Crabb. I’m not familiar with his other writings, but this particular book had me bored, confused and wondering what exactly Larry was trying to say.
So much of this book seems to focus on what the author wants out of church – not necessarily what GOD wants out of church. As I read, it became clear that this man has a lot of complaints and grievances against the way “church” is done, in Western America. In Chapter 23, Larry makes a statement that I feel is totally against what the Bible teaches.
He states that he realizes he needs community – he needs to meet on a regular basis with other Christians but then he also states: “But I’m not at all persuaded that I need what Western Christians, especially American evangelicals, think of as church: a Sunday event with music and preaching; official spiritual leadership; a designated place to meet………..”
He doesn’t believe that he (or churches) need official spiritual leadership? Was God mistaken when He inspired Ephesians 4:11-12, which clearly states that the leadership offices (evangelist, pastor, teacher, etc) are for the edification of the body of Christ?
While I appreciate self examination and believe it to be very necessary, Larry seemed to be obsessed in this book with what HE was looking for in a church, what would draw HIM to attend, what HE thinks a service should look like.
It came across to me as very selfish and self centered. There is, nor will ever be a perfect church and so to write an entire book of complaints just makes no sense to me. To reiterate “I’ve lost interest in church” was overkill. It’s not edifying, it doesn’t encourage anyone and in fact, this book could cause MORE people to leave church out of selfishness.
Oddly enough on page 152, Larry makes a list of 4 things that a “real church” does – and I agree with his list! This left me very confused and unsure about this book. Most parts of it I disagreed with – and yet every once in awhile, I would discover a statement that actually made sense. I whole heartedly agree with his comments about broad-road churches presenting a badly revised or watered down version of God……….yet I disagree with what he keeps defining as “revival”. I think this book could be very dangerous and misleading for a new Christian, a struggling Christian or a disgruntled believer looking for an excuse not to attend church anymore.
February 6, 2011
Most books, in one way or another, are about giving answers.
Not so with Larry Crabb's new book Real Church. It doesn't give answers as much as it asks questions. Good questions, important questions, about the nature of what Jesus envisions the church to be. The kinds of questions that are rarely asked nowadays in the evangelical church, mainly because we assume we've already got those questions answered, and the questions we concern ourselves with now are about how to do everything we are already doing better. We ask "One service or two? Contemporary or traditional? Sunday School or small groups?"
This book, however, is about entirely different questions, questions that go much deeper: "Why are mature people who love God drifting away from church? Why do people who have little commitment to Christ enjoying church, and why are they not growing? Why is it not enough for a church to call people to belief in Christ and to lead moral lives? What are the marks of a church that creates people & community that are truly supernatural?"
In his preface, Larry himself writes:
What church would compel me to attend? What kind of church service would I hate to miss? What church would I feel privileged to be part of? I had a hard time coming up with an answer. So I decided to think more about it. I think best with a pen in my hand. Hence this little book.
By the end of the book, he hasn't come up with pat answers, but he has asked some penetrating questions (in fact, twelve of the chapter titles are questions, such as "So What Is It that Makes a Gathering a Church?" and "It Will Offer Salvation and Help for Righteous Living: Is that the Deep Change God Wants?").
Larry does, however, lay out four marks of a church that he would want to be part of:
1. Understands and encourages dynamic, transformative Biblical truth
2. Understands and encourages spiritual formation
3. Understands and encourages spiritual community
4. Is energized to do the missional work of the Kingdom
So, what did I get out of this book? Besides taking a ton of notes & quotes, Real Church gave me new perspectives and categories to think through what it truly means to "do church," as well as my own private spiritual formation. If you want to think seriously about the church and the Kingdom then read this book.
January 22, 2019
Sometimes, after we have made it through the first few pages or chapters of a book, the only thing that keeps us going is the reputation of the author. For me, Real Church: Does It Exist? Can I Find It? (2009, Thomas Nelson) by Larry Crabb was just such a book. I have read nearly all of Dr Crabb's books and had the honor of receiving spiritual direction from him. It would not be too much to say that he has been one of the most important influences upon my thinking about church, relationships, and life. But when I began Real Church, I found myself uncomfortable. In the early pages of the book, he boldly claims that he has essentially grown tired of church and really doesn't want to go church. When I read his words, several different things stirred in me. I still like going to church. Every week, so I have a hard time relating when he says he doesn't want to be there. I also found myself pondering the more general question, "is he allowed to say that and still call himself a Christian? I mean, is it okay?" (Dr Crabb has a way of writing things honestly that most people are reluctant to voice). I have to admit, if this book was written by a different author, I don't know that I would have continued beyond the first few chapters. But this was Larry, a man whose wisdom I have come to value. I am glad I persisted.
After writing about what makes him uncomfortable with the modern church, he sets out to explore what church could be, a community of honest believers, sharing in one another's struggles over the long haul, all while giving glory to God. The picture he paints would be radical to most churchgoers; for example, he proposes spending ten minutes at the opening of church with everyone journaling about where they are at in the moment (their red dot) and then inviting people to share. Radical, but refreshing.
I suspect if you are accustomed to the American status quo, this book may unsettle you, but give it a chance. What Dr Crabb is envisioning could be transformative.
After writing about what makes him uncomfortable with the modern church, he sets out to explore what church could be, a community of honest believers, sharing in one another's struggles over the long haul, all while giving glory to God. The picture he paints would be radical to most churchgoers; for example, he proposes spending ten minutes at the opening of church with everyone journaling about where they are at in the moment (their red dot) and then inviting people to share. Radical, but refreshing.
I suspect if you are accustomed to the American status quo, this book may unsettle you, but give it a chance. What Dr Crabb is envisioning could be transformative.
April 24, 2013
„Mă plictisesc la biserică”
Poate n-ai spus-o cu glas tare, dar ai gândit-o. Ori poate că nu te plictiseşti, ci pur şi simplu, din cine ştie ce motive, trebuie să te sforţezi să mai dai pe la biserică. Dacă nici nu ţi-a trecut vreodată prin minte, nici nu i-ai auzit pe alţii plângându-se de biserica lor, atunci sigur această carte nu e pentru tine. Fiindcă vorbeşte despre probleme care-ţi sunt cu totul străine.
Dacă însă te-a încercat măcar într-o duminică dimineaţa ispita de a alege altceva, mai „interesant” decât mersul la biserică, ştiut fiind că „oricum n-o să se întâmple mare lucru” acolo, atunci sigur merită să citeşti cartea.
S-ar putea ca tu să ai o problemă, după cum s-ar putea ca biserica la care umbli să aibă nişte neajunsuri. Oricum, la un moment dat va trebui să priveşti situaţia în faţă, fără menajamente, fără ocolişuri. Va trebui să te opreşti şi să te întrebi la modul serios de ce mergi, în cele din urmă, la biserică.
După cum se poate citi printre rândurile cărţii, peregrinarea dintr-o biserică într-alta în căutarea congregaţiei ideale nu e de natură să ofere răspunsurile dorite. Autorul a încercat-o pe pielea lui într-o anumită măsură.
Sunt convins că abordarea lui Larry Crabb nu va convinge pe toată lumea. Cu siguranţă că nu toţi cititorii vor fi de acord cu toate soluţiile pe care autorul le propune. Însă cartea are un mare atu: abordează cu o sinceritate dezarmantă un subiect extrem de sensibil şi chiar stânjenitor. Cum să mărturiseşti că, de fapt, deşi eşti un autor de renume, un consilier respectat şi un creştin cu vechime, nu prea îţi mai găseşti locul în biserica ta?
Continuarea recenziei, aici: http://edituracasacartii.wordpress.co...
Poate n-ai spus-o cu glas tare, dar ai gândit-o. Ori poate că nu te plictiseşti, ci pur şi simplu, din cine ştie ce motive, trebuie să te sforţezi să mai dai pe la biserică. Dacă nici nu ţi-a trecut vreodată prin minte, nici nu i-ai auzit pe alţii plângându-se de biserica lor, atunci sigur această carte nu e pentru tine. Fiindcă vorbeşte despre probleme care-ţi sunt cu totul străine.
Dacă însă te-a încercat măcar într-o duminică dimineaţa ispita de a alege altceva, mai „interesant” decât mersul la biserică, ştiut fiind că „oricum n-o să se întâmple mare lucru” acolo, atunci sigur merită să citeşti cartea.
S-ar putea ca tu să ai o problemă, după cum s-ar putea ca biserica la care umbli să aibă nişte neajunsuri. Oricum, la un moment dat va trebui să priveşti situaţia în faţă, fără menajamente, fără ocolişuri. Va trebui să te opreşti şi să te întrebi la modul serios de ce mergi, în cele din urmă, la biserică.
După cum se poate citi printre rândurile cărţii, peregrinarea dintr-o biserică într-alta în căutarea congregaţiei ideale nu e de natură să ofere răspunsurile dorite. Autorul a încercat-o pe pielea lui într-o anumită măsură.
Sunt convins că abordarea lui Larry Crabb nu va convinge pe toată lumea. Cu siguranţă că nu toţi cititorii vor fi de acord cu toate soluţiile pe care autorul le propune. Însă cartea are un mare atu: abordează cu o sinceritate dezarmantă un subiect extrem de sensibil şi chiar stânjenitor. Cum să mărturiseşti că, de fapt, deşi eşti un autor de renume, un consilier respectat şi un creştin cu vechime, nu prea îţi mai găseşti locul în biserica ta?
Continuarea recenziei, aici: http://edituracasacartii.wordpress.co...
July 6, 2012
In Real Church, Larry Crabb confesses a loss of desire to attend church. I believe many of us would admit to the same thing if we were being honest; however, Crabb takes it further. With stunning honesty, Crabb explores his lack of enthusiasm for church as we know it. First, Crabb identifies the different church models that are prevalent today and then explores how each falls short of ideal. Crabb then identifies the qualities that a church should be striving to possess.
I found Real Church to be a refreshing critique of how our western church often misses the mark spiritually. Crabb is able to earn credibility with the reader by honestly admitting his own flaws and short-comings. He writes earnestly of the worldly addictions that are competing with his desire to become more like Jesus. Reading the confessions of a Christian leader in his sixties helped me feel more comfortable with the competing desires in my own heart. By identifying his own needs, Crabb is then able to envision a church that actually meets the needs of its congregation.
Crabb was able to put in words feelings that I’ve often had regarding attending church. Far too often, church leaders are quick to judge and condemn Christians who lack enthusiasm for church. Crabb is able to get past the finger pointing and guilt to actually write something productive. I highly recommend this book for people who are unsatisfied with their church (even if they aren’t sure why). I also believe all church leaders who desire to build an authentic Christian community should read this book carefully. I will be placing Real Church on my must read list.
I found Real Church to be a refreshing critique of how our western church often misses the mark spiritually. Crabb is able to earn credibility with the reader by honestly admitting his own flaws and short-comings. He writes earnestly of the worldly addictions that are competing with his desire to become more like Jesus. Reading the confessions of a Christian leader in his sixties helped me feel more comfortable with the competing desires in my own heart. By identifying his own needs, Crabb is then able to envision a church that actually meets the needs of its congregation.
Crabb was able to put in words feelings that I’ve often had regarding attending church. Far too often, church leaders are quick to judge and condemn Christians who lack enthusiasm for church. Crabb is able to get past the finger pointing and guilt to actually write something productive. I highly recommend this book for people who are unsatisfied with their church (even if they aren’t sure why). I also believe all church leaders who desire to build an authentic Christian community should read this book carefully. I will be placing Real Church on my must read list.
November 26, 2012
O cartea care ridică onest problema și propune niște soluții. Nu trebuie să fii neapărat de acord cu soluțiile, ca să admiți că problema există și că este atent diagnosticată.
Cartea are meritul de a întreprinde o analiză pătrunzătoare a mediul eclestiastic evanghelic. Oameni de vârsta a III-a pe care nu-i mai trage inima să meargă la biserică. Oameni de toate vârstele care sunt în căutarea unei biseric „mai ideale”. Soluții nereușite, adesea sentimentale, administrative, paliative și foarte rar teologice, bine ancorate în teologia istorică. Un tablou nu prea atractiv. Nici nu-i de mirare că răsar atâtea voci „reformiste” care, cel mai adesea, adâncesc criza prin chiar soluțiile propuse.
Autorul remarcă și orbirea reformiștilor evanghelici la orice înseamnă tradiție. Contactul cu istoria Bisericii lipsește aproape cu desăvârșire. Iar Larry Crabb constată că e necesar. Măcar pentru că furnizează material de studiu în privința diverselor soluții propuse de unii și alții. E foarte greu să vii cu ceva într-adevăr nou și revoluționar după 2000 de ani de creștinism. Aproape sigur s-a mai încercat cândva în trecut și ceea ce propune cu titlul de inovație cine știe ce teolog sau reformist actual.
Nota în care se încheie cartea e, totuși, optimistă. Există soluții, dar nu sunt simple.
Cartea are meritul de a întreprinde o analiză pătrunzătoare a mediul eclestiastic evanghelic. Oameni de vârsta a III-a pe care nu-i mai trage inima să meargă la biserică. Oameni de toate vârstele care sunt în căutarea unei biseric „mai ideale”. Soluții nereușite, adesea sentimentale, administrative, paliative și foarte rar teologice, bine ancorate în teologia istorică. Un tablou nu prea atractiv. Nici nu-i de mirare că răsar atâtea voci „reformiste” care, cel mai adesea, adâncesc criza prin chiar soluțiile propuse.
Autorul remarcă și orbirea reformiștilor evanghelici la orice înseamnă tradiție. Contactul cu istoria Bisericii lipsește aproape cu desăvârșire. Iar Larry Crabb constată că e necesar. Măcar pentru că furnizează material de studiu în privința diverselor soluții propuse de unii și alții. E foarte greu să vii cu ceva într-adevăr nou și revoluționar după 2000 de ani de creștinism. Aproape sigur s-a mai încercat cândva în trecut și ceea ce propune cu titlul de inovație cine știe ce teolog sau reformist actual.
Nota în care se încheie cartea e, totuși, optimistă. Există soluții, dar nu sunt simple.
November 5, 2009
Overall I like what this book has to say It is somewhat encouraging to see an established voice in evangelical Christianity discussing some of the same criticisms brought up by the emerging church movement. Yet Crabb exercises more caution than some of the emerging church writers. Crabb is very much about analyzing what we want, what our heart desires, for church and in many ways what our churches say they are about, then identifying the disconnect that exists between these desires and church practice in America. I believe he is bringing a level-headed voice to the discussion where too many tempers and too much pride have held sway.
My only criticism with the book is that “Real Church” isn’t one of the more articulate expositions of these thoughts. Crabb seems to be writing to an audience that has not yet put words to these feelings and as such uses more simple, comforting, and cautious language. I believe this is good for an introduction to those who feel a disconnect in their personal church experience, but will offer little new material to engage those who have been exposed to a wider variety of emerging church writings.
My only criticism with the book is that “Real Church” isn’t one of the more articulate expositions of these thoughts. Crabb seems to be writing to an audience that has not yet put words to these feelings and as such uses more simple, comforting, and cautious language. I believe this is good for an introduction to those who feel a disconnect in their personal church experience, but will offer little new material to engage those who have been exposed to a wider variety of emerging church writings.
November 5, 2014
Larry Crabb has a way of making one feel uncomfortable--but in an ultimately good way--as he shares his heart's desires toward God & what church could & should be. After all, while many of us would like to see the end result Larry proposes, are we willing to go through the process of becoming the kind of people that requires? Nevertheless, in spite of any concerns I had about what it takes to get there, as I read this book, I couldn't help but "nod" from within the depths of my soul. His wording and the heart behind what he says resonate with, I believe, what God is trying to form in me. I agree with Larry's premise that we need to start with right theology & move through the steps (next: Christ-likeness, then beneficial & honest spiritual community) toward impactful outreach, lest we bring to the lost empty or damaged words that don't bring about the change hoped for. But where to start? Do churches exist that meet Larry's ideal? How do we who seek such go about finding or persuading others to join us? Perhaps as we who follow this path emanate to the world what God is doing in & through us, the hope & deep joy they see will be the proof they need.
December 28, 2009
Crabb writes honestly, as if unashamed that his thoughts are unpolished. Though I expected this to be just another, "the church isn't relevant to ___" rant, it was much more. Larry demonstrates true candor in his approach to what he wants (and needs) from a community of faith. He doesn't pretend to have a monopoly on the theology of church or truth, but with sincerity expresses his own struggle to find a community of depth that helps him battle his real-life struggles.
I think chapter 20 is most striking. He elaborates on a previous comment (that small groups become group counseling sessions that sacrifice real spiritual depth in the name of getting-to-know-you) centered on John 13:25 and 17:23. Crabb reminded me of what kind of community Jesus prayed for, one that was known for love of each other.
A favorite quote (from p. 124):
"I don't want to go to a church that values Christ's mission above the kind of community Christ prayed that His people would develop. I want to go to a church that releases missional energy through community."
I think chapter 20 is most striking. He elaborates on a previous comment (that small groups become group counseling sessions that sacrifice real spiritual depth in the name of getting-to-know-you) centered on John 13:25 and 17:23. Crabb reminded me of what kind of community Jesus prayed for, one that was known for love of each other.
A favorite quote (from p. 124):
"I don't want to go to a church that values Christ's mission above the kind of community Christ prayed that His people would develop. I want to go to a church that releases missional energy through community."
November 19, 2009
When I first received this book, I was very excited to read it as I was going through a period in my life of struggling with my experiences in the church. However, I found this book extremely difficult to get through (it took me months of picking it up and putting it down) and the author tended to contradict his own points throughout the book. While I do agree with some of his arguments about what is wrong with churches today, I think the biggest problem Mr. Crabb is facing is his lifestyle. He says that due to his travel schedule he is unable to attend any one church on a regular basis. What he is missing is the sense of community and belonging that you get from attending the same church regularly. In his line of work, I'm not sure he's ever going to find what he's looking for.
February 27, 2010
just finished reading. The most important thing that I learned and agreed with is that everyone is addicted to something. Addiction is anything that we enjoy doing better than being with God. I do agree with that. It is easy as christians to put addictions in the pile of people who are alcoholics or use drugs or are even addicted to porn. But, we all have are issues. Things that draw us away from God. His reasons are very specific in what he wants from the church. Mine are more simplistic.and mayble more selfish. :-(
May 11, 2011
I appreciated the opportunity to drag my mind through page after page of criticism of "church." There's no doubt that we've got problems.
That said, it is so much easier to criticize than help. And though Crabb kinda/sorta offered some direction, he still did it from an "I know so much more than anyone else and unless you convince me that you are really trying I will continue to be suspicious or dissatisfied" attitude. That's hard to swallow for a couple hundred pages, and at least the similar attitude of my review was only a couple paragraphs.
:)
That said, it is so much easier to criticize than help. And though Crabb kinda/sorta offered some direction, he still did it from an "I know so much more than anyone else and unless you convince me that you are really trying I will continue to be suspicious or dissatisfied" attitude. That's hard to swallow for a couple hundred pages, and at least the similar attitude of my review was only a couple paragraphs.
:)
March 11, 2013
I started this book and enjoyed the introduction and premise. I grew tired of it as I got closer to the middle of the book and skimmed to the end to just finish it.
I found it to be rather hopeless - full of questions but not really any answers or hope. It seemed to be more just very specific questions and wonderings of the author. His own journey rather than a more universal journey I was expecting. Some of his questions rang true for me, but I grew weary of the tone of the book. I wish it seemed as if the author had some answers or a more positive outlook by the end of his book.
I found it to be rather hopeless - full of questions but not really any answers or hope. It seemed to be more just very specific questions and wonderings of the author. His own journey rather than a more universal journey I was expecting. Some of his questions rang true for me, but I grew weary of the tone of the book. I wish it seemed as if the author had some answers or a more positive outlook by the end of his book.
April 8, 2009
Crabb reads like an old cynic who is so caught up in his professional Christian circle that he can't see the vitality and authenticity widespread in the church today - particularly in younger generations. I believe he places too much importance on his emotional reaction to church and doesn't take enough responsbility for what he gains at church. Ironically, it seems he has so honed his critical eye that I doubt he'll ever be happy in a real church.
August 14, 2011
A more detailed review is forthcoming...however, I would give it 3.5 stars, but I can't, so it gets rounded up for 4. Good book. Not great. Has some good stuff to contribute. Has some good critiques of current church movements.
UPDATE: To check out the full review visit: http://www.thecamelshump.org/blog/boo...
UPDATE: To check out the full review visit: http://www.thecamelshump.org/blog/boo...
June 19, 2019
In this short but meaty book, therapist Crabb explores why even theologians and leaders don’t really want to go to church anymore. He reveals the patterns and flaws of some of the popular “types” of churches and then describes what would make a church he would want to attend. Seems simple, but it’s changed things up for me. I would highly recommend all Christians read this!
August 25, 2009
Another important but difficult look at the church right now. Insightful, good overview of some of the current trends with an emphasis on the important elements in a community that is attempting to live out our calling as the Body of Christ.
April 23, 2013
He nails it. This is unity in the church and where we should be headed.
February 9, 2016
I don't like books by Larry Crabb.
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