Venom vs. Carnage

Venom vs. Carnage #1-4

by Peter Milligan, Clayton Crain (Penciller)

Collects Venom vs Carnage (2004) #1-4. What’s worse than one mayhem-producing symbiote? Two. What’s worse than that? Three. That’s right: Venom’s offspring, Carnage, is about to have a baby itself…

Genres: Comics, Graphic Novels, Marvel, Spider Man, Superheroes, Graphic Novels Comics, Comic Book

95 pages, Kindle Edition

First published April 21, 2005

About the author

Librarian note:
There is more than one author in the GoodReads database with this name

Peter Milligan is a British writer, best known for his work on X-Force / X-Statix, the X-Men, & the Vertigo series Human Target. He is also a scriptwriter.

He has been writing comics for some time and he has somewhat of a reputation for writing material that is highly outlandish, bizarre and/or absurd.

His highest profile projects to date include a run on X-Men, and his X-Force revamp that relaunched as X-Statix.

Many of Milligan's best works have been from DC Vertigo. These include: The Extremist (4 issues with artist Ted McKeever) The Minx (8 issues with artist Sean Phillips) Face (Prestige one-shot with artist Duncan Fegredo) The Eaters (Prestige one-shot with artist Dean Ormston) Vertigo Pop London (4 issues with artist Philip Bond) Enigma (8 issues with artist Duncan Fegredo) and Girl (3 issues with artist Duncan Fegredo).

Series:
* Human Target
* Greek Street
* X-Force / X-Statix

Reviews

[Mike]

This is the earliest work from Clayton Crain that I’ve ever read - and seems like the template for many iterations he’s worked on a Carnage comic since, so I’m really paying attention to the details of his panels.

Clayton Crain is obviously very skilled at painting - captures the light, the tiny dimples in close-up skin, the anatomy of people in motion. But holy hell does he like drawing Black Cat like she’s in a porno - the close-ups of her nearly-naked boobs in this latest “naughty anti-hero” costume make me a mite uncomfortable, like there’s no way this would read well for anyone who’s not seriously into women as sex objects.

Sooo we need to talk about how Carnage asexually reproduced, to create the Toxin child symbiote, that inhabits a full-grown man, WITHOUT HIM KNOWING. Since when does a symbiote not immediately turn their host into a golem?

I mean, eventually the dude wakes up - and even moves out of his family home when he reconciles with the beast within - but c’mon - every time I feel slightly gassy from a bad mean, my body doesn’t let me hear the end of it until it’s passed.

So beyond the “wow” factor of Crain’s art, this is a pretty ho-hum story fleshing our yet another symbiote origin. But hardly mind-blowing.

[Dan]

Basically Toxin's origin story. Seemed a bit rushed and not a fan of computer generated art.

[James DeSantis]

2025 Review: My sentiments don't change too much even years later. This is still a very dumb but very fun story. I do actually like toxin quite a bit and wish he stayed around longer than he did. Also Carnage is fucking hilarious in this miniseries. Overall dumb and fun, a 3 out of 5.

Old 2022 Review: About as stupid as you expect, but kind of funny?

Carnage keeps calling venom daddy, gross, yet funny.

Venom wants his grandbaby to be safe. Until he finds out his grandbaby could hurt him when he grows up, then he wants him dead. LOL.

Spider-man caught inbetween all this family drama like "Come on bro"

Overall dumb as shit, but also kind of entertaining? Art is photo-realistic, so sometimes looks great, other times looks awful. A 2.5 out of 5.

[bri 🧸]

i was not just forced to read carnage calling venom daddy i

[Adam Stone]

There are many comic book fans who look down on stories about Venom and/or Carnage, and consider the characters to be lowest-common-denominator in comics. I am not one of those people. But I think even those people would look at this book and say "Wow, this is so much worse than I imagined it would be."

Clayton Crain's art isn't always my style. But he certainly became much better at his craft after this book. Every character has a body from porn, and a face from Soundgarden's "Black Hole Sun" video, it's not pretty. Add to that the relentlessly dark coloring, and it's not an easy book to even look at.

The main problem, though, is Peter Milligan. The man has Zero Talent for writing dialogue. None. He is Awul At It. All of his characters have always sounded thirty to forty years out of date, but not in a fun or nostalgic way. You can usually stomach his terrible dialogue because he has moderately intriguing ideas. His X-Force, Volume 1: New Beginnings/X-Statix Omnibus run is wonderfully weird....actually, that's the only thing I've read by him that I haven't hated. His Shadowman, Volume 4: Fear, Blood, and Shadows is atrocious, his run on Hellblazer: Scab had me dropping the title for the first time (though it's, admittedly, not nearly as bad as Garth Ennis's second tenure on the title), he is only not remembered as one of The Worst Writers to work on X-Men because his run overlapped with much more maligned run by Chuck Austen.

His Venom, his Carnage, his Spider-Man, and his Black Cat bear passing resemblance with those characters in the hands of better writers. The plot stiffly elbows its way to its inevitable, paint-by-numbers conclusion, and I just found myself feeling bad for anyone who ever has to write the Toxin character and say "Oh, yea, his origin story? Ummm ... well ... it's in a book called Venom Vs. Carnage." They probably will cross their fingers and hope it's out of print.

I don't recommend this book to anyone. You will live your life fuller and happier for never having wasted your time on it.

[Práxedes Rivera]

Is it me or are these symbiote stories looking a lot alike? As in the movie "Multiplicity", each installment is about spawning a more imperfect version of its predecessor. Overall storyline has to be less predictable. Illustrations were clever and innovative.

[Ariel]

Okay story, inconsistent artwork

Simple enough story; the "birth" of Toxin and his host coming to terms with the change. This was decent enough for a superhero/villain origin.

Where I did not enjoy was mainly the poor grammar. I know, I know... It's a comic, not the epitome of writing expected. However it was bad enough I felt more effort could have been given.

Along with the artwork being inconsistent. Women are not the artist's forte. Both main women would be muscular in one frame and then gaunt in the next. The baby was just flat out ugly. There was also a period were I confused Carnage with Toxin as he went from bulky to ghastly thin.

The whole thing felt rushed like it was pushed by a inconceivable deadline.

[Liquid Snake]

Not impressed

Didn't had any expectations, but this is very generic and boring story, lazy writing in my book. Carnage creates new symbiote to kill it 5min later, makes no sense.

[♛ Garima ♛]

Serves me right for reading the book without reading the blurb but still enjoyed it. It is not the story of Venom or Carnage like I believed but it is of origin of Toxin and his story. To be fair, I didn't even know Carnage's existence of it was a lot of catching up to do, but it was still a great story.



Art could have been better, less muscular maybe.

[John Willians]

Ok, this is a tough one to read. Almost.. impossible.

The art isn't innovative, is painful. Even while the story itself was getting worse and worse, it still didn't match with the visuals, as they were the lowest point. Also, I simply couldn't stand looking at what it seemed like a porno version of every character. For real, Black Cat is grotesque. There's literally a panel where her breasts are the same size as her HEAD. Are they all aliens now? Cause I can't be supposed to believe that a guy tried to design something even remotely close to real human bodies here. It's disgusting. I'll keep the name Clayton Craine in mind so I never have to face a book with his art again.

The dialogue is completely childish and unskilled. Laughable even, in the worst way. Maybe it was written by a 15 year old at school right? Oh, no? A full grown man? Well. I've started this knowing well about Peter Milligan's writing skills, but still didn't know it could be that bad. I mean, who could be prepared for this amount of sexual puns and Carnage calling Venom "daddy" so many times?

It honestly felt like pure fanart to me. Actually, worse, a porn fanart story, because experiencing such a bad writing and art together really leads you to think that this is exactly where these kinds of stories go. You know, no real effort or development, just trying to get to the point where the characters take their clothes off? They really, really tried to make people horny while reading this one.

So yeah, skip it. 100% skip it.

[Sooraya Evans]

Fabulous art by Clayton Crain in this volume detailing the birth of Toxin,
spawn of Carnage... grandspawn of Venom. Pat Mulligan, an ex-NY cop hosts the symbiote in this book. Toxin's appearance is basically a half-and-half cut/paste of Venom and Carnage.
Somewhat lazy design but still kinda cool.

[Kelsey Graham]

Toxins origin story essentially poorly executed. The text was really hard to read at points and the art style was awful, in particular the human faces and Blackcat who at points was basically pornographic.

[Eòsaph]

WOW! Amazing artwork. Nonstop action. A new symbiote. This was an impulse buy & damn am I pleased with it.

[Münevver]

Toxin'in ortaya çıkışını okuduğumuz keyifli bir hikayeydi.

[Corban Ford]

Beautiful illustrations, decent story. The text was a little hard to read at times and I wasn't a fan of the ending at all, but ultimately those are minor quibbles to a solid Spider-Man story.

[Tyler Zamora]

This is the first Venom/Carnage title I’ve ever picked up and it was a pretty fun read. It definitely could’ve been a bit longer, but I still enjoyed it. I felt like I got a better understanding of who the two main characters were for sure. I never knew that Toxin came from Carnage, so I also learned that. I thought it was cool how Toxin was basically closer to Spider-Man than either of his predecessors. Proof that the man makes the costume (or symbiote in this case). It was clear that Toxin struggled with his identity throughout the story, although I’m still not sure why Carnage would trust a cop to do evil deeds with him.

With that being said, the cast of characters was really fun though! I loved the entire symbiotic family, but was most excited to see Black Cat, who is one of my all time faves. I didn’t even know she was a part of this series, so it was a pleasant surprise. My only critique is that the Crane may have sexualized her a bit too much. When the bust is busting and the hips aren’t lying, it almost takes away and distracts from the actual story. I know this is a huge part of who her character is, but sexy doesn’t need to be crammed down our throats. It can be subtle and still effective, which is what I think of when I think of Felicia, but what do I know (and expect from a male centered comic). I liked that Spider-Man made an appearance as well, but the way they drew him also threw me off. Sometimes I got him confused with Toxin’s design. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m crazy or Crane was so focused on creating awesome symbiotes that he made everyone look a little parasitic.

The true standout was the cop storyline for Toxin. That was honestly what kept me intrigued throughout the entire thing and Black Cat offered the role of side kick throughout it all. This graphic novel could make a killer film, but I’m not sure if the Venom series is continuing any further. I think Toxin is a great character that can really mix things up with the already existing symbiotes since he operates very differently than them. I also wish this series was longer so I could get more character development. But overall, it was a really fun ride!

[Kayıp Rıhtım]

Örümcek Adam'ın en korkutucu ve ciddi düşmanı, hatta belki de baş düşmanı deyince çoğumuzun aklına Venom gelir. Eddie Brock'tan önce Peter Parker'a tutunarak örümcek güçlerini kuvvetlendiren ve simsiyah kostümle dostane komşumuzu karizmatik bir süper kahramana çeviren bir parazit olan bu simbiyot bölünerek çoğalmaktadır.

Venom’u oluşturan simbiyot dünyamızda bölünerek neslinin 999.’su olan Carnage'ı “doğurur.” Manyak, hasta, pis, deli bir seri katil olan Celtus Kassady ile birleşen Carnage, bulduğu konak bedenden ötürü adeta bayram eder. Venom ve Carnage zaman zaman birlikte hareket etmiş olsa da, simbiyotun kötücül yapısı nedeniyle baba evlattan, evlat da babadan nefret etmektedir.

Bölünerek neslin 1000. evladını doğurma vakti geldiğinde Carnage “doğum yapmak” istemez ve bu da onu Venom'la tekrar karşı karşıya getirir. Kassady de zor bir çocukluk geçirdiği ve ana-baba sevgisi nedir bilmediği için, Carnage ne olursa olsun bu doğuma engel olmayı, eğer engel olamayacaksa da yeni simbiyotu güçlenmeden önce ortadan kaldırmayı kafasına koyar.

Ancak Venom, neslinin 1000. üyesi olacağı için torununun hayatta kalmasını kesinlikle ister. Birlik olup Örümcek Adam’ı öldürme hayalleri kurduğu torununun adını bile daha o dünyaya gelmeden önce koymuştur: Toxin!

Toxin’in konak vücuduysa tesadüf eseri bir polis memuru olur. Mutlu bir evliliği ve yolda bir bebeği olan Patrick Mulligan, birkaç kuşak önceki dedelerinden beri süren geleneği devam ettirerek polis olmuştur. İyi bir polis olmak için çaba harcayan Mulligan, “doğum” esnasında Carnage’a yakın olduğu için simbiyot da onu seçer ve olaylar gelişir.

Bu sıralarda konuyla tamamen alakasız bir şekilde tablo çalan ve çizer Clayton Crain tarafından haddinden fazla seksi bir şekilde tasvir edilen Black Cat de olaya dahil olur. Ancak onun konuya dahil olmasına ne kadar gerek varmış, bilemiyorum. Okurken “Keşke Örümcek Adam, Black Cat’ten daha fazla konuya dahil olsaydı,” diye düşünmekten kendimi alamadığımı söyleyeyim.

Peter Milligan tarafından yazılan çizgi romanın konusunu genel olarak beğendiğimi söyleyebilirim, ancak konunun işlenişindeki bir oraya bir buraya gidip geliş, araya durduk yere Black Cat’in dahil olması açıkçası aldığım keyfi biraz azalttı. Üstüne bir de Clayton Crain’in aşırı dijital ve yapay görünen çizimleri ve insan çizimlerindeki “köşeli” diyebileceğim tarzı eklenince, Venom ve Carnage’ı dövüşürken görmekten alabileceğim keyfi tam olarak alamadım diyebilirim. Eğer klasik tarzda ve daha çok kağıt-kalem ürünü olan çizgi romanları seviyorsanız, benim gibi düşünmeniz olası. Ancak çizim konusunda böyle takıntılarınız yoksa, hatta dijital çizimleri seviyorsanız, çok büyük ihtimalle Crain’in çizimlerinden fazlasıyla keyif alacaksınız.

Venom’un veya Carnage’ın hayranı ve seveniyseniz, bu cildi okumaktan epey keyif alabilirsiniz. Ancak sevdiğiniz ve görmeyi beklediğiniz karakter Örümcek Adam ise, bu cilt sizi biraz hayal kırıklığına uğratacak diyebilirim. Ama yine de, Marvel evreninin üçüncü büyük simbiyot karakteri olan Toxin’in doğuşuna tanık olmak için bile olsa okunmayı hak eden bir cilt olduğunu söylemeden geçmeyeyim.

- Türker BEŞE

İncelemenin tamamı için: http://kayiprihtim.com/inceleme/venom...

[Patrick]

This actually has a story that's far more than "Venom vs Carnage." It actually focuses on a New York cop who becomes the host to Carnage's "son" called Toxin. It would have been nice if it had been longer but I assume Toxin is in more comics, though maybe not necessarily better. The art is interesting, though sometimes it looks kind of strange because it doesn't really try to look as realistic as Alex Ross though it does have more of that painted look.

[Torren Mullens]

The art genuinely made my eyes ache looking at it. At times it's almost indecipherable and I had to keep going back to older pages to figure out wtf is happening.

A strange little story about Venom & Carnage's family dynamic mixed with the origin of Toxin, its a real wet sponge of a book.

Carnage is at his dullest here, nothing beyond violent kill machine. Venom is given little to actually work with.

Black Cat is present for seemingly no genuine reason other than to save Mulligan once. Mulligan himself is a fine enough character I wish the book was only his origin as its the best handled part of the book.

Not great. Not fun.

[Ángel C]

No tenia mucha expectativa pero la historia de Toxin como tal y la breve aparicion de La Gata Negra me agradaron.

[Tyler]

Cool, I like a good comic once in a while. Also the art is sick.

4.2 🌟

[Andrew Garvey]

Reading this origin story for Carnage's offspring Toxin is an odd, sometimes uncomfortable and deeply disappointing experience. I'm quite interested in Toxin and his human host as characters and these four issues do set up a lot of questions for the future but it left me with a lot of questions, both in terms of the in-universe issues and more fundamentally, the creative decisions in the real world.

This might just be due to my lacking Marvel knowledge but... I know Marvel don't reboot their universe every few years the way DC does so why does Black Cat not know who Venom and Carnage are, considering she fought them both in the Maximum Carnage crossover event? Is this how symbiotes usually reproduce? It just seems odd and very rushed.

But onto the bigger questions. Who made the decision to use this artwork? It sort of works for the Venom/Carnage/Toxin fight scenes because I get that they're already wildly exaggerated (although at times it's impossible to figure out what's going on and surely the entire point of the artwork in a comic is to show the reader what's happening?) but Clayton Crain's work on the human characters is atrocious.

Even leaving aside the eye-wateringly and uncomfortably pervy way Black Cat is drawn, the humans (even her) all seem to share the same, quite hideously ugly face. It's horribly distracting and ruins an otherwise solid origin story. Ughh.

[Paul Watson]

The illustration was phenomenal but the storyline really didn't resonate with the title of Venom vs Carnage. It seemed to loom more around the birth and origins of Toxin (spawn of Carnage).

I enjoyed reading it overall but as most comics go, it ends just as you are really drawn in and aching for more. I do recommend this series.

[Kristen]

As my first Venom comic, I'm not sure it was a great choice lol. But I enjoyed it nonetheless.

[Drew Sprouse]

I liked the story line but not so much the artwork. Not bad, just not my favorite.

[Nicole Westen]

Well I'm glad when I had 'the talk' with my parents it didn't get this violent.

[The_J]

Story of birth of "Toxin," but the moral becomes with great power then you should abandon your new family.

[Jack]

My brother bugged me to read this because he said it was awful. He was right! The art is so off-putting and unpleasant to look at that it ruins any goodwill it might have otherwise had.

[Gilraen]

Acil doğum kontrol

[Dony Grayman]

Segundo tomo del coleccionable Universo Araña.