Where Roses Fade

Lydmouth #5

by Andrew Taylor

The fifth novel in the Lydmouth crime series, from the prize-winning author of the Richard and Judy Book Club novel, The American Boy.
When Mattie Harris's body is found drowned in the river, everyone in Lydmouth knows something is wrong. Mattie wasn't a swimmer - it can't have been a simple accident. She was drunk on the last night of her life - could she have fallen in? Or was she pushed?
Mattie was a waitress, of no importance at all, so when Lydmouth's most prominent citizens become very anxious to establish that her death was accidental, Jill Francis's suspicions become roused. In the meantime she is becoming ever closer to Inspector Richard Thornhill, and discovering that the living have as many secrets as the dead . . .

Genres: Mystery, Fiction, Crime, Historical Fiction, Audiobook, Detective, British Literature

436 pages, ebook

First published June 1, 2000

About the author

Andrew Taylor (b. 1951) is a British author of mysteries. Born in East Anglia, he attended university at Cambridge before getting an MA in library sciences from University College London. His first novel, Caroline Miniscule (1982), a modern-day treasure hunt starring history student William Dougal, began an eight-book series and won Taylor wide critical acclaim. He has written several other thriller series, most notably the eight Lydmouthbooks, which begin with An Air That Kills (1994).

His other novels include The Office of the Dead (2000) and The American Boy (2003), both of which won the Crime Writers’ Association of Britain’s Ellis Peters Historical Dagger award, making Taylor the only author to receive the prize twice. His Roth trilogy, which has been published in omnibus form as Requiem for an Angel (2002), was adapted by the UK’s ITV for its television show Fallen Angel. Taylor’s most recent novel is the historical thriller The Scent of Death (2013).

Reviews

[Nick Davies · Rating 2 out of 5]

I'm not awarding this two out of five due to a lack of quality in the writing or plot, it's more a case of me not enjoying the experience all that much. I like crime thrillers / police procedurals and read a lot of 'em but this cosy historical English style isn't a favourite sub-genre of mine.

The story revolves around the (post war, but not sure when) discovery of a young waitress, drowned in the river. The setting of the story in a claustrophobic small village/town at an equally restrictive period in history, all the manners and generation contrasts, a big cast of characters.. it all felt a bit tedious to me. I've never watched 'Midsomer Murders' but I imagine this book is a little similar - this novel I think is one of several set in the same time/place and I'm not sure it convinced me. It was dense and long-winded and took a while to read, but the amount of 'action' in the book was relatively little for all that effort.

I also had a problem with some of the characterisation of women and the disabled in the book. I know much of this was true-to-life and perhaps represented attitudes of the time in which this was set, but still.. the author *chose* to create these characters and then have them treated somewhat unsympathetically. This choice puzzled me a bit and didn't feel right.

[Sandra · Rating 2 out of 5]

I'm not sure whether or not the enjoyment I get from Andrew Taylor's writing depends on what I've read immediately previous, because sometimes I do enjoy his Lydmouth series, other times not. This was one of the latter. The language felt stilted and simplistic, some of which could be attributed to his method of evoking the period and its stiff conformity, but I've read other novels set in the 1950's which do it better.

[Andrew Wyness · Rating 5 out of 5]

Best one yet in my opinion, although I find it hard to be objective with Taylor as I enjoy every one of his books so much.

A really great plot that serves itself well but also that of the broader character arcs across the series.

Really enjoying the development of the Thornhill as a character, and the introduction of Joan hints at an interesting plot line for Kirby too.

In terms of the murder mystery, this one has the whole bloody village involved which was great, and I genuinely had no clue how it would go until the last few pages. Superb.

[Moravian1297 · Rating 3 out of 5]

Oh dear, I don't know much about fading roses, but the fifth instalment of the Lydmouth series most certainly faded, somewhat drastically. We were unfortunately dragged back into a story that was nothing more than a midweek evening soap opera. Where we had the generic stereotype of the scummy mummies from the local scheme and absentee, middle class, rotter fathers, that participated in every cliché known to Eastenders, Emmerdale and Coronation Street.

We also had very long descriptions of Councillor Bernie Broadbent's love of cars, and even worse, a long, and highly detailed portraiture of his car itself! Jeezo, if I wanted to jack off over engines, I'd just buy Top Gear magazine! Which I don't and most certainly won't.
Then there was the cricket. Jesus wept! What is the one thing that is more tedious and boring than cars, thought the author? Yes! I know, CRICKET! Paragraph, after paragraph, we tediously had descriptions of a cricket match. It was 'overs' here, and 'ducks' there, 'runs', 'stumps' and 'silly mid-offs' every-f*cking-where! I appreciate that the author had to get across the seemingly, idyllic, middle class, village gentlemen type lives of some key characters, but c'mon, surely he could have thought out a better scenario than an entire cricket match?! Cars and cricket are obviously very much loved by Andrew Taylor, but unfortunately, I was now losing the will to live.

Thankfully, unlike the Marwood & Lovett series, the author has decided not to drag the arse out of the will they, won't they? relationship between DI Thornhill and Jill Francis. However, is that necessarily a good thing? They're now embarked on a full throttle extramarital affair and are at it like Katie Hopkins in an arse banging competition. Unfortunately though, this story line drags the book back down to nothing more than an ITV or BBC soap opera, and when it was just, will they, won't they?, we were spared the uncomfortably embarrassing and somewhat grizzly details of their sexual liaisons. Let's face it, DI Thornhill hasn't exactly been painted in a very romantic looking light so far, has he? The author's prior physical descriptions of the policeman, and his excruciatingly awkward and bungled attempts at initiating sex with his wife, in the first novel, has me thinking more Basil Fawlty and Inspector Clouseau than any kind of James Bond type ’player’, so when we have descriptive hints of sex between the pair,

"He and Jill had picnicked in bed last night, licking crumbs off each other...... "

and,

" Thornhill put his hand to his face, ostensibly to rub his nose, but really to smell his fingers. There was still a hint of Jill there, he thought, something had lingered, some little part of her...... "

Ooft…. TMI people!! It really just made me think, bleurgh!! And gave me the boak...... pass the sick bucket please!



In my reviews of the last couple of books in the Lydmouth series, I've highlighted a couple of fantastic characters. However, I'm really gonna have to stop doing that, because every time I do, they subsequently vanish from future stories! Take Mr Quale, the factotum at The Bull Hotel for example, whom I singled out for particular praise in book three, he has had very little air time since, in fact he appears for only ONE sentence worth here and as for PC Porter, who really came into his own in the last outing, and after I’d praised the character to the hilt in my last Lydmouth review, has now disappeared COMPLETELY! Not a single mention, which is rather bizarre. Even if he'd been posted away or left the police altogether, you'd think such a prominent character from previous books would deserve to have something like that mentioned, you'd think? PC Porter actually finished up being the hero of the day at the end of book four, so you’d think his absence would have merited some kind of explanation, surely? But now that I'm saying this, I do seem to remember that the author, Andrew Taylor did that with a character in his Marwood & Lovett series, just totally made them disappear from one book to the next, without one solitary explanation and I certainly hope he's not done that with PC Porter!

I did enjoy the only part of the plot that didn't seem like it was lifted directly from the script of Emmerdale, the conspiracy of the ’old men’ trying to cover up their corruption. But I must say, I did not like the final twist, in that it was ultimately the kid with learning difficulties that was the murderer. The author gave us a whole gaggle of corrupt councillors, top police and masons, who even tried to frame a mentally handicapped lad for murder and then, were allowed to sweep that under the carpet too, by the unexpected corruption of DI Thornhill. When DI Thornhill had confronted his boss, the egregious and extremely odious Detective Superintendent Raymond Williamson about the planted evidence, I was hoping, he’d punch him in the stomach, and throw the cuffs on him, not let him pathetically worm his way out with a transparently flimsy excuse. So when the reveal finally came and it did turn out to have been committed by none other than Jimmy Leigh, who was a few sprouts short of a Christmas dinner, I was most disappointed, an extremely unwelcome outcome indeed, especially as there had been a plethora of ‘orrible c*nts to choose from!

Fingers crossed that the dip back into soap opera territory is temporary, and we get somewhat back on track in book six.

[Ian Wilson · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is the best of the Lydmouth series so far for me. It's more ambitious in terms of the issues it addresses, and the 'whodunnit' aspect kept me guessing to the end. The characters are becoming like old friends. Recommended.

[Jenn]

Not my cup of tea. I couldn't finish it. It moved way too slowly for me and I was getting confused with the characters.

[Anne Brown · Rating 4 out of 5]

Well they’ve done it now. The spark between Detective Inspector Richard Thornhill and journalist Jill France has ignited into a conflagration. The trouble is neither seems particularly happy about it. They are happy when they snatch a few moments together but even that happiness is fragile when thoughts of other people and other responsibilities creep in.

A girl has been found drowned in the river. Her name is Mattie and she was a waitress at the local cafe. Mattie was striking with her red hair and her husky laugh. Everyone suspected that she was a little fast but still they liked her and now she is dead. Still at least it was straightforward. She must have fallen in the river and drowned. It happens. But there are things that don’t add up. The sort of things that Thornhill can’t leave alone but must tease at until they make sense. This being Lydmouth, there are powerful people who want Thornhill to take things at face vale, damn him. Why can’t he just do as he’s told? Well, he wouldn’t be Thornhill if he could just look the other way, would he?

I love the morality of Thornhill. He has to do the right thing and that’s why I think his relationship with Jill won’t last. As he questions people, he feels like he doesn’t have the right and that is both troubling and distracting to him. This series manages to create the ambience, if that is the right word, that I imagine a small, provincial town in England in the nineteen fifties would have. Where everyone is keeping an eye on everyone else for transgressions whilst often doing whatever they like, especially the men. This world is a patriarchy. Men are largely in control and rich men have the most control of all. Thornhill keeps thinking of a sermon where the theme was you take what you want but then you must way for it. In Lydmouth, some take what they want and have no intention of paying for it. That’s why Lydmouth needs Thornhill.

[Elizabeth Lloyd · Rating 4 out of 5]

Reviewers seem to be divided as to whether this is the best or the worst of the Lydmouth Chronicles. Certainly the crimes centre round sordid actions by respected business men and young women treated like prostitutes because they have had illegitimate children. The story exposes the double standards of attitudes to sexual activity during the 1950s.
The book begins with the awful experiences of young Malcolm Pembridge in hospital and the life-changing effects of his bout of polio. Luckily his friend Bill keeps his spirits up. There are two young women who also feature in the plot, Violet Evans, struggling with the care of her new baby, Grace, under the disapproval of her father, and her friend Mattie, a stunning red-head, everyone seems to know.
In parallel we find journalist Jill Francis and DI Richard Thornhill finally giving into their passion for each other. But can there be happiness for them when Richard’s wife Edith returns with the children? Jill is a beacon of pro-active beneficence. She discovers those in trouble and makes connections the police don’t always detect. Richard refuses to kowtow to DS Williams and arrest a disreputable boy of limited intellect with only circumstantial evidence.
As the action increased and my suspicions fell on one character and then another, I really enjoyed this book and cannot fault it for its believable reflection on 1950s social history, while the significance of the fading bouquet of roses in the back of DI Thornhill’s car was not lost on me.

[Alison · Rating 4 out of 5]

Young Mattie Harris is found floating in the river by Jimmy Leigh, a slow-witted young man. Mattie was a waitress at the local cafe, but her death has got the old men of Lydmouth closing ranks. Detective Superintendent Ray Williamson has come out of retirement due to ill-health to manage the investigation and he appears determined to pin the murder on Jimmy, even if the evidence seems to point somewhere else - could it be the Masonic lodge is covering something up?

In addition, Mattie's best friend Violet has recently given birth to a baby out of wedlock, the father Ray, is the son of one of Lydmouth's most prominent citizens and he and his best friend Malcolm, who was struck down by polio as a child and now has to walk with the assistance of crutches, have been using a deserted house for their own purposes ... was Mattie somehow involved.

I'm devouring this series so I'm not doing much analysis, but what I like are the references to issues of the time, eg Malcolm's polio, the criminality of homosexuality (and the pain that caused people), the sin of childbirth outside marriage, and the hypocrisy of prostitution. When people hark back to the golden era of the 1950s they should remember how repressed society was and how so many people had to live a lie, or just unhappily, just because of society's diktat.

[Wide Eyes, Big Ears! · Rating 5 out of 5]

When the body of a good-natured young woman is found in the Lyd River, it seems that many men have a secret concerning her that they want to keep hidden. Reporter Jill Francis and Inspector Thornhill must sort the white lies from the black ones as he conducts a frustrating investigation with interference from the old boys club where everyone has a reputation to protect. As usual I found this riveting and compelling, but wished it was slightly less dour - there are so many lives of quiet desperation in the village of Lydmouth. There were so many moving parts to this, I enjoyed just being swept along by them all and awaiting the multiple final reveals. Audio narrator Philip Franks is such a quiet achiever, he effortlessly changes voices and accents without overly drawing attention to his considerable abilities.

[S V B · Rating 3 out of 5]

I didn't enjoy this one as much as the previous ones in the series, it seemed to lean a lot on the whole 'oh he's mentally disabled so he must be the bad guy' thing, which he does turn out to be, and also it got kind of weird going into such detail about the girls' bodies? Like I get it but it almost felt a bit like the author was getting off on it which was kind of grubby.
I still don't entirely get why Jill is such a central character in the series, a lot of the time she doesn't really need to be there, and she's not hugely likeable. At least give her a sense of humour or something, she's a bit one-dimensional.
In fact now I think about it the only character who seems to have any sense of humour is Kirby. Not necessarily a problem but it does seem like it would make the characters more likeable.

[Chrystyna · Rating 4 out of 5]

Where Roses Fade by Andrew Taylor - Very Good

This is number five of the Lydmouth series, so we know the main characters quite well now.

Inspector Thornhill is on leave. So is Jill Francis, the deputy editor of the Lydmouth Gazette. Those that have read the earlier books will understand the significance of this.

One night, the body of a young woman, Mattie Harris, is found floating the river. Known as a 'good time girl', there are soon quite a number of men, old and young, in the town feeling uneasy. Was this an accident or something more sinister.

Andrew Taylor knows how to build the pace. Slowly building the plot until you just have to read the last few chapters in a sitting....nearly didn't go into yoga, shouldn't have started the last 100 pages on the bus into town!!

[Lisbeth Zabihi · Rating 5 out of 5]

Denne serie bliver bare bedre og bedre. "Hvor rosen mister sin pragt" er en fremragende krimi der fortjener at blive læst. Endnu engang er vi i den lille engelske by Lydmouth, hvor vi møder et kalejdoskop af mennesker. Skjulte hemmeligheder kommer frem i lyset og ikke alt er hvad det ser ud til ved første blik. En ung kvinde findes myrdet og der trækkes tråde til høj såvel som lav i byen. Og smuds dukker op, bedst som man troede det var dybt begravet.

Spændende og fængende. Jeg holder meget af denne type krimier - der er ikke så meget blod og ikke så meget vold, men til gengæld masser af psykologisk indsigt i menneskene. Ægte Agathe Christie-stil.

[Carol Beckman]

Joyless but well constructed

I wish someone in Lydmouth had a bit of joy. The weather is always horrible, the town is a dump and the people all have petty secrets, You cant really like anyone. Even Richard Thornhill and Jill Francis are flawed and angst ridden.
However this book carries you along nicely.

[Ursula Liechti · Rating 3 out of 5]

Another murder in this lovely area , but then come the twist and srvteys. Gill the reporter from the local paper is as always a great help with solving it all , but of course it is mondorcyrt Yhornhill wants to hear it or are they much involved to keep his mind on the job ? Well it all goy. solved It became a bit tedious but a good outcome.

[Ant Koplowitz · Rating 5 out of 5]

Another deep and involving novel in Andrew Taylor's excellent Lydmouth series. Such a skillful writer and the sense of time and place he creates mean you are completely immersed into the 1950s. I love this series and I love Taylor's writing.

[Windy · Rating 4 out of 5]

Lots of suspects to keep readers on their toes - I really enjoyed this episode, not sure why it doesn't seem to have impressed other readers on here.

[Julian Wathen · Rating 4 out of 5]

Keeps you guessing right to the end. Won't disappoint fans of the series. I shall say no more.

[Kenn Coates · Rating 5 out of 5]

Where Roses Fade

Andrew Taylor is a fine writer with a vivid imagination and the knack of creating twists and turns to keep you guessing until the very end of the book. Excellent!

[Sridhar Babu · Rating 4 out of 5]

Author..
Andrew Tayler..
Characters..
Richard Thornhill, Jill Francis, Mattie Harris,Jimmy Leigh, Bernie Broadbent, Robert Sedbury, Malcolm Sedbury, Gerlad pambridge, Bill Pembridge, Violet Evans, Ted Evans, Ray Williamson, and Kirby.
Location..
Lydmouth, Estbury (UK)..
Genre..
Suspense..
PLOT..
Mattie Harris, a waitress from Lydmouth, found drowned to death in the river Lyd between the piers of New Bridge. Mattie couldn't swim. Her body was found by Jimmy Leigh a mentally retarded boy-man, while escaping from police for a toy-theft.

Inspector Richard Thronhill, assisted by his reporter friend Jill Francis investigates Mattie's death, with his team (Kirby and Joan Allison).

Richard Thronhill's Investigation, turns in to a murder enquiry, when his team discovers that Mattie was pregnant at the time of death. Her belongings ..golden powder compact,found on the muddy banks of the river Lyd, and a blue color hand bag found at the bottom of Bernie Broadbent's garden, who is a businessman, councillor and one of the leading citizen of Standing joint committee Lydmouth. Bruises around dead woman's shoulders and the way she was dressed up (inside out) confirms that the death was not accidental.

Richard Thronhill, after series of enquiries and interviews learns that Mattie Harries had affairs with almost all the leading citizens in Lydmouth, and all of them wants to close the death enquiry as accidental. Richard discovers that Mattie Harris, was used by Bernie Broadbent, Gerald Pembridge and Ray Williamson for their sexual fantasies during their poker games a week before her death.

Finally Richard gets the clue for his quest at "Wynstones".. an abandoned building under the care of Robert sedbury. Richard proves that Mattie, had been driven to wynstones for aborting pregnancy , by Bill pembridge and Malcolm Sedbury and was murdered by mentally retarded Jimmy when Mattie was left alone in that building,while Bill and Malcolm away for purchasing drinks for their late night stay.

In addition to this murder, whodunit angle. There is a trivial plot about Bill pembride and Violet Evens love spells that went wrong and romantic angle between Richard Thronhill-Jill Francis, which has no link to the story at all.

MY COMMENT..

A good time pass ..

[Goobybrain · Rating 4 out of 5]

until chapter 12 I was confused between who is who which makes me go back and forth in the book to see if they were mentioned before.
I got used to the characters later on.
I got caught up then I enjoyed how heavily flawed almost every prominent character is , that you can't make a judgement on the first impression.

Living in a small town myself, stumbling across this book in a second-hand bookstore, I never knew I'd relate to a novel about a small town so much!

1 I've had multiple things draw me into this book, one of them was how the author never directly objectifies the women in the novel , but he shows you how the men view them which sent a chill in my spine sometimes, how can a man (kirby in one example) sexualize something like Joan looking at the compact case!
I relate to some of these issues and honestly, it's one of the small details I really liked!

2
I enjoyed the relationship between Jill and Richard.
and I didn't like the way they kept bringing up mattie's ex husband's skin tone ,it kinda threw me off lol
Overall i like the book.
I highlighted a lot of dialogue parts especially the unexpected ones
only flaw with this book is the slow writing in the beginning , so please be a patient reader.

[Kirsty Darbyshire · Rating 4 out of 5]

Another wonderful episode in the Lydmouth series. If I had to fault this book it'd be to say that I'm almost more interested in the development of the relationship between Jill Francis and Richard Thornhill than I am in the mystery plot but that's not really a complaint at all. It's kind of like at an interview where they ask what your worst quality is and you find something to say that can be twisted to sound bad but actually puts your skills in a good light.

Plus since this book is very much centered around illegitimate relationships and births the 'Jill and Richard' parts of the story aren't just a tacked on love story but an integral part of the tale. The characters really come to life for me and I can see Mattie and Violet and Bill and Malcolm running round Lydmouth as I'm reading. Also since the books are set fifty years or so ago there is the dimension of wondering what happens to the characters and the town in the time between then and now as well as wondering what will happen next in the series.

[Heidi · Rating 4 out of 5]

As always, great characterization (if not necessarily nice characters) wonderful sense of place (English village directly after World War II, lack of plumbing, modest facilities, dirt and grime) and he had me guessing to the end. Thought about giving this five stars but I didn't want to take away from the standard, which is the Roth trilogy and is brilliant.

[Deb · Rating 3 out of 5]

continuing storyline of Richard (police officer) and Jill (reporter) having an affair. Local waitress gets killed; Richard and Jill work together to solve the mystery. This small village has more secrets and murders....good think Richard and Jill are there to sort them out! I do like this authors writing so will keep on with the series.

[Denis Kaufman · Rating 4 out of 5]

TheLydmouth series -- of which this is part -- are set in Shropshire in the early to mid-1950s. Andrew Taylor combines police procedural and post-war British history in a delightful series of crime novels.

[Katie Grainger · Rating 3 out of 5]

Really good book, I had not read any others in the series but that didn't matter!

[Saul Mcintyre]

Not bad, but not great and certainly not the best in the Lydmouth series, a bit too contrived and cliched this time.

[Katherine · Rating 3 out of 5]

One of the better Taylor's but they are all much the same.

[Brooks · Rating 3 out of 5]

A long book with many characters. Interactions all very intriguing. Good twist at the end. Good series.

[Tammy]

Ok