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Gor #10
Tribesmen of Gor
In this tenth volume of John Norman's Gor series, Tarl Cabot must prove his final loyalty to the harsh and caste-bound planet known as counter-earth. "Surrender Gor," reads a message sent from the Others, a mysterious people from the worlds of steel. Either the proud rulers of Gor submit or be destroyed. Now Tarl Cabot is leaving the decadent city of Port Kar to wander in the wilds of Gor, taking up the sword to defend his rulers and enemies, the Priest-kings. For he knows that the fate of his home planet, earth, is inextricably tied to the fate of Gor.
361 pages, Kindle Edition
First published January 1, 1976
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671 people want to read
About the author
John Norman
99 books337 followersLibrarian Note: There is more than one author in the GoodReads database with this name. See this thread for more information.
John Norman, real name John Lange, was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1931. His best known works, the Gor series, currently span 36 books written 1966 (Tarnsman of Gor) to 2021 (Avengers of Gor). Three installments of the Telnarian Histories, plus three other fiction works and a non-fiction paperback. Mr. Norman is married and has three children.
John Norman, real name John Lange, was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1931. His best known works, the Gor series, currently span 36 books written 1966 (Tarnsman of Gor) to 2021 (Avengers of Gor). Three installments of the Telnarian Histories, plus three other fiction works and a non-fiction paperback. Mr. Norman is married and has three children.
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Displaying 1 - 29 of 29 reviews
August 18, 2017
TRIBESMEN OF GOR is the last Gor novel not overwhelmed with the theme of human bondage. But by this point it is as evident and distracting as Mikhail Gorbachev's birthmark. I love TRIBESMEN, the tenth of the series, and can tolerate the ratio between plot and slavery dogma in this book. The tipping of the narrative scales that's been building for the last three volumes will go overboard from book 11 onward and start to smother the series. TRIBESMEN shines though, and brightly. This is the episode just before the series jumps the shark, a gritty adventure for Tarl Cabot, who endures and conquers much misery throughout; readers will feel his pain.
The conclusion of the steel tower subplot toward the end of the novel and the Klima excursion in TRIBESMEN are among Norman's finest fictional moments, standing alongside the gravitational disruption chapter in PRIEST-KINGS, Cabot's clandestine nocturnal foray into Turia and his ordeal in Saphrar's pool during NOMADS, the tarn race and gladiatorial sequences from ASSASSIN, the first of the two long sea battles in RAIDERS, Vella's scene in the alcove with Cabot in HUNTERS, and the thing fair scenes of MARAUDERS. TRIBESMEN, and the preceding MARAUDERS, are fully-realized masterpieces of the imagination detailing the new Cabot. A naive young warrior is replaced with a world weary, hardened individual.
Norman, as usual, has done his research, the desert lore in this novel is fascinatingly real, the various treks Cabot makes across the burning sands engrossing. John Norman is very good at evoking a sense of place in his Gor books, but he never did it better than in this novel. Character motivations are subtle and deep, the bitter betrayals and vengeful comeuppances are razor sharp. Reading the previous works in the series enriches the enjoyment of such but is by no means necessary. TRIBESMEN is a standalone story with a defined beginning, middle and end unlike other later storylines that sprawl over the course of several books.
Gor novels are truly outrageous reads. From the beginning creator Norman changed lanes, switched gears, drove on the wrong side of the road and took exits into uncharted territory where there was bound to be trouble. Starting with the second book, character reversals and plot upsets ran amok in some of the best interplanetary romance genre fiction ever published. Norman's Gorean saga never takes the reader where he or she thinks the story will take them. Cabot never really recovers his lost Talena; he finds his city destroyed, to be rebuilt only symbolically; the Priest-Kings and, later, the Kurii, are nothing like one would expect them to be from Norman's clever foreshadowing; 11 of the 22 books after TRIBESMEN replace Cabot as narrator, sometimes he doesn't appear in an entire story, or for several in a row. In book six Tarl Cabot suffers a defeat that will haunt him for the remainder of his days and by TRIBESMEN, the tenth, the series is irreconcilably on a vastly different trajectory with only intermittent flashes of its former glory. They're there, but in such miserly portions one has to scour the pages to locate them.
Although Tarl Cabot accomplishes a few other exciting missions after TRIBESMEN OF GOR, this is where the series peaks. For adventure fans, it's all downhill after this one. The reason why is the balance between the adventure storyline and Norman's fetishistic notions begin an exponential shift in scale. Their proportions in the first six books is a workable, even enjoyable 90% plot, 10% slave girl philosophy (with percentages lessening in the plot department in every succeeding volume). In books seven through ten the scales shifted to 75% plot, 25% philosophy with percentages in the slavery psychobabble consuming more and more pages yet still riding on the back of the plot, and underpinning the story. The dominance & submission lectures in Gor books after TRIBESMEN supersede the plot as Norman clears the decks by consciously switching genres in mid-series, and not bothering to tell anyone! Norman's readership got the idea, of course. Abruptly the novels cease to cater to the fantasy adventure readers and become a feast for the BDSM crowd (whose legions apparently outnumber those of sci-fi/fantasy fans which equates to more books sold and bigger paychecks for the writer who has tapped neatly into two markets now with one of the most deft bait-and-switch ploys in the history of the printed word). As previously stated, there still is some derring-do but it's on the back burner while the 'women are natural slaves' theme not only boils over, but transmogrifies into the raison d'être of the series.
The conclusion of the steel tower subplot toward the end of the novel and the Klima excursion in TRIBESMEN are among Norman's finest fictional moments, standing alongside the gravitational disruption chapter in PRIEST-KINGS, Cabot's clandestine nocturnal foray into Turia and his ordeal in Saphrar's pool during NOMADS, the tarn race and gladiatorial sequences from ASSASSIN, the first of the two long sea battles in RAIDERS, Vella's scene in the alcove with Cabot in HUNTERS, and the thing fair scenes of MARAUDERS. TRIBESMEN, and the preceding MARAUDERS, are fully-realized masterpieces of the imagination detailing the new Cabot. A naive young warrior is replaced with a world weary, hardened individual.
Norman, as usual, has done his research, the desert lore in this novel is fascinatingly real, the various treks Cabot makes across the burning sands engrossing. John Norman is very good at evoking a sense of place in his Gor books, but he never did it better than in this novel. Character motivations are subtle and deep, the bitter betrayals and vengeful comeuppances are razor sharp. Reading the previous works in the series enriches the enjoyment of such but is by no means necessary. TRIBESMEN is a standalone story with a defined beginning, middle and end unlike other later storylines that sprawl over the course of several books.
Gor novels are truly outrageous reads. From the beginning creator Norman changed lanes, switched gears, drove on the wrong side of the road and took exits into uncharted territory where there was bound to be trouble. Starting with the second book, character reversals and plot upsets ran amok in some of the best interplanetary romance genre fiction ever published. Norman's Gorean saga never takes the reader where he or she thinks the story will take them. Cabot never really recovers his lost Talena; he finds his city destroyed, to be rebuilt only symbolically; the Priest-Kings and, later, the Kurii, are nothing like one would expect them to be from Norman's clever foreshadowing; 11 of the 22 books after TRIBESMEN replace Cabot as narrator, sometimes he doesn't appear in an entire story, or for several in a row. In book six Tarl Cabot suffers a defeat that will haunt him for the remainder of his days and by TRIBESMEN, the tenth, the series is irreconcilably on a vastly different trajectory with only intermittent flashes of its former glory. They're there, but in such miserly portions one has to scour the pages to locate them.
Although Tarl Cabot accomplishes a few other exciting missions after TRIBESMEN OF GOR, this is where the series peaks. For adventure fans, it's all downhill after this one. The reason why is the balance between the adventure storyline and Norman's fetishistic notions begin an exponential shift in scale. Their proportions in the first six books is a workable, even enjoyable 90% plot, 10% slave girl philosophy (with percentages lessening in the plot department in every succeeding volume). In books seven through ten the scales shifted to 75% plot, 25% philosophy with percentages in the slavery psychobabble consuming more and more pages yet still riding on the back of the plot, and underpinning the story. The dominance & submission lectures in Gor books after TRIBESMEN supersede the plot as Norman clears the decks by consciously switching genres in mid-series, and not bothering to tell anyone! Norman's readership got the idea, of course. Abruptly the novels cease to cater to the fantasy adventure readers and become a feast for the BDSM crowd (whose legions apparently outnumber those of sci-fi/fantasy fans which equates to more books sold and bigger paychecks for the writer who has tapped neatly into two markets now with one of the most deft bait-and-switch ploys in the history of the printed word). As previously stated, there still is some derring-do but it's on the back burner while the 'women are natural slaves' theme not only boils over, but transmogrifies into the raison d'être of the series.
August 28, 2019
This volume takes us to an Arabian-inspired area of Gor, complete with deserts and (of course) veiled harem girls.
Like most Gor novels after about the fifth or sixth, this book is about 10% plot, 10% guidebook to Gor, and 80% slavery and slaves. It's a shame, too, because when Norman actually gets down to the monsters, swordplay, and battles, these are really good sword and planet adventures. Wading through all of the endless "all women desire to be slaves" speeches, though, make these tough reads, even for fans of the sword and planet and sword and sorcery genres.
Like I have said in previous Gor reviews, Norman doesn't even offend me with anything he says because I understand that this is fiction/fantasy. It's just that he beats a dead horse so much that it gets endlessly repetitive. Yeah, Norman, we get it: you are SUPER into BDSM. Can't we just get to the story without derailing it constantly with endless and repetitive speeches about it???
Like most Gor novels after about the fifth or sixth, this book is about 10% plot, 10% guidebook to Gor, and 80% slavery and slaves. It's a shame, too, because when Norman actually gets down to the monsters, swordplay, and battles, these are really good sword and planet adventures. Wading through all of the endless "all women desire to be slaves" speeches, though, make these tough reads, even for fans of the sword and planet and sword and sorcery genres.
Like I have said in previous Gor reviews, Norman doesn't even offend me with anything he says because I understand that this is fiction/fantasy. It's just that he beats a dead horse so much that it gets endlessly repetitive. Yeah, Norman, we get it: you are SUPER into BDSM. Can't we just get to the story without derailing it constantly with endless and repetitive speeches about it???
February 1, 2009
By the way, this new cover is considerably more racy than the old DAW books version that I have. This cover looks like the book is "porno," but in spite of its suggestive nature, it isn't explicit--implicit, but not explicit.
I knew what to expect from Tribesmen of Gor by John Norman, but I read it anyway. Almost 400 pages in paperback, I’d guess that close to 50 of them are dedicated to espousing Norman’s philosophy of male superiority and how western civilization has been weakened by allowing women to be empowered. I’d estimate that close to 30 of them are steamy scenes with some kind of bondage scenario attached to them. That being said, there is still plenty of adventure in this 1976 novel of John Carter (actually, Norman’s protagonist is named Tarl Cabot, but you get the picture) meets bondage with hints of light S&M.
The bulk of the story is rather straightforward. One easily guesses that a strange reference to a “steel tower” is foreshadowing of some space travelers who aren’t hampered by Star Trek’s pesky Prime Directive and quickly senses that a certain “monster” usually opposed to his “faction” (he serves the Priest-Kings of Gor if you’ve never read any of this particular series or gave up reading it prior to Book #3 (Priest-Kings of Gor)) is a potential ally (though it surprised me how long this took to come about and I wasn’t expecting the technological/magical twist that made certain events surrounding this “ally” to be possible).
For me, the entire story was worth reading for the scenes regarding a salt shark referred to as “The Old One.” The scene takes place in a dark cavern far below the surface where an underground salt river moves lugubriously through crusts of salt deposits. As the salt slaves dredge this river from wooden barges, “The Old One” becomes a virtual Moby Dick by destroying and overturning the barges in order to devour the slaves. Norman’s description of this monster is vivid enough that it could be “statted out” as a Dungeons & Dragons monster in no time. Frankly, I was bound to these pages tighter than one of Cabot’s slave mistresses to her collar during the chapter and a half dealing with this monster.
If you liked Edgar Rice Burrough’s John Carter of Mars or Carson of Venus, you owe it to yourself to experience at least one of these lesser novels. If you haven’t tried the “classic” entries in this genre, I’d definitely advise those over Norman and his politically incorrect sexual philosophy.
I knew what to expect from Tribesmen of Gor by John Norman, but I read it anyway. Almost 400 pages in paperback, I’d guess that close to 50 of them are dedicated to espousing Norman’s philosophy of male superiority and how western civilization has been weakened by allowing women to be empowered. I’d estimate that close to 30 of them are steamy scenes with some kind of bondage scenario attached to them. That being said, there is still plenty of adventure in this 1976 novel of John Carter (actually, Norman’s protagonist is named Tarl Cabot, but you get the picture) meets bondage with hints of light S&M.
The bulk of the story is rather straightforward. One easily guesses that a strange reference to a “steel tower” is foreshadowing of some space travelers who aren’t hampered by Star Trek’s pesky Prime Directive and quickly senses that a certain “monster” usually opposed to his “faction” (he serves the Priest-Kings of Gor if you’ve never read any of this particular series or gave up reading it prior to Book #3 (Priest-Kings of Gor)) is a potential ally (though it surprised me how long this took to come about and I wasn’t expecting the technological/magical twist that made certain events surrounding this “ally” to be possible).
For me, the entire story was worth reading for the scenes regarding a salt shark referred to as “The Old One.” The scene takes place in a dark cavern far below the surface where an underground salt river moves lugubriously through crusts of salt deposits. As the salt slaves dredge this river from wooden barges, “The Old One” becomes a virtual Moby Dick by destroying and overturning the barges in order to devour the slaves. Norman’s description of this monster is vivid enough that it could be “statted out” as a Dungeons & Dragons monster in no time. Frankly, I was bound to these pages tighter than one of Cabot’s slave mistresses to her collar during the chapter and a half dealing with this monster.
If you liked Edgar Rice Burrough’s John Carter of Mars or Carson of Venus, you owe it to yourself to experience at least one of these lesser novels. If you haven’t tried the “classic” entries in this genre, I’d definitely advise those over Norman and his politically incorrect sexual philosophy.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
December 16, 2020
I've come to accept a certain level of ridiculousness from Gor that to me only adds to the flavor of the series, but in Tribesmen I feel the line was crossed.. and then left in the sand dunes far, far behind! Coming off of the splendid Marauders, all of Tribesmen's glaring faults are THAT much more jarring. Here are my two major gripes: wherein Marauders we get to know over-the-top characters (as in all the [imho] successful Gor releases as of yet), but in Tribesmen we have to plod through too much speechifying about women's longing to be slaves; in Marauders we get an action packed roller coaster of an adventure, but in Tribesmen very little happens in the plot that is not ridiculous (even by my aforementioned Gorean standards).
Being that I am now 10 books deep into the series I feel rather invested and that's where I assume this urge to write my first Gor review stems from. I'm worried. I don't want this series to degenerate into what are essentially intelligently written, yet mundanely excruciating rants about women. I don't want plot, I don't want sword and sandal tales, to take a complete backseat to Gorean sexual practices & philosophical ramblings on gender roles. This particular concern of mine ruined Tribesmen for me and I will discuss it here and now. In the latter part of the book Tarl, or Hakim of Tor as he's known for this mission, uses a Kur ring of invisibility to infiltrate the last remaining stronghold of Kurii agents and after unlocking a gate to allow a storming of the Kasbah he spends page after page lecturing Vella about her subservient role and women's in general need for submissiveness and degradation. Look, I'm absolutely 100% fine with whatever the author believes in his personal life and/or whatever the practices/beliefs of Gor are in regards to women because this is FANTASY and if it's well written and engaging to me then I'll ride the wave with you, BUT!! for fucks sake does this need to be discussed during the climatic final battle! Tarl's sermon to Vella could not have had worse timing. I've been giving Gor the benefit of the doubt so much, but even this one I couldn't excuse. I think the one practical, yet poignant way out this could have been for Tarl's story arc and mental journey to be emphasized with the encounter with Vella. In Marauders, Tarl becomes fully hardened and "awoken" to his Warrior Caste spirit and place on Gor by his battle against Kurii with the virile and free Northerners. Since female slavery is such a center-point in the Gor series why not complete that "hardening" of Tarl and make the reunion of Vella and him what it should be, a reunion of born-to-be slave and born-to-be Master, but without his Socratic dialogue. Tarl made the unimaginable journey back from Klima, brought back the slave silk of Vella, and realized his relation to women: so I understand him chaining her, using her, branding her (all which he did), and I think this all completes the story arc of him becoming Gorean and shedding the last of his "earthliness", but again, I must repeat, why the hell does this happen when it happens and why does Tarl deign to waste so many words on a mere slave! I'm excited to read the 11th chronicle of Gor with this new Tarl, but I'm also anxious lest it be dragged down with oration.
A note on the female slavery stuff before I move onto my second complaint about Tribesmen: it's getting too absurd and redundant. The "proud and free" woman Tarna is captured and after a threeway gangbang with Tarl and Hassan she's in rabid heat and infatuated with her chains and new position. Come on!! Jesus Christ. I could plausibly believe that a woman could be transformed into liking her subjugated position such as in Assassins because there we get an understanding of the slave house's processes, but after one hard "using"? Really?
Secondly, what the hell happened to something happening. With the exception of Klima which was by far my favorite part of the book, very little occurs and what does happen is plagued with, dare I say it: ridiculousness. The Kurii want to blow up the planet so they park a bomb in the desert and guard it with one Kur AND rig the bomb with a time mechanism reminiscent of every shit Hollywood movie cliche ever. The whole Middle East is about to jihad, but they don't because some dudes in chains have a tattoo on backwards. The main bad guy tells the whole secret plot to Tarl before killing him, no wait, not before killing him but before sending him on a long journey meant to make him suffer. Somehow he escapes. Bad James Bond and/or good Austin Powers would like their plot device back. I think this book could have easily been as good as Marauders if a similar approach to crafting the story would have been taken. Imagine with me here that the "steel tower" in the most deserted region of Gor would have been a Kurii ship landed loaded with Kur as a full on invasion force. In Marauders we got Vikings vs. Space Bear/Gorilla hybrids and it was awesome! I was more than ready and willing for round 2 with some badass Bedouins, Turks, Arabs etc to take the place of Vikings! The scene where tens of thousands of nomadic riders line up to do battle should have been against the Kurii invasion force after the Kurii local population failed. Just an idea, but I think a better one than much ado about nothing.
All in all this release of Gor was disappointing and forgettable. I'm enjoying the series so far though so I won't let one get me down. A good word to be said about Tribesmen should be had and that is most definitely Klima. Mr. John Norman has an excellent way of making some of his landscapes truly come to life in vivid detail in my mind's eye and Klima did so. Everything about it from its utter remoteness to its brutal conditions evokes suffering and hardness that is new and original even after Tarl having been places like The Mines of Tharna in Outlaws. The salt caves and the fight with the Old One are, to me, a wonderful example of a tangent in storytelling that has no real purpose to the plot (I realize that by Tarl saving T'Zshal he gains his favor and therefore release from Klima, but this could've been done in any number of other minor ways), but yet adds so much to the story. Great chapters that redeem Tribesmen somewhat.
On to the next one!
Being that I am now 10 books deep into the series I feel rather invested and that's where I assume this urge to write my first Gor review stems from. I'm worried. I don't want this series to degenerate into what are essentially intelligently written, yet mundanely excruciating rants about women. I don't want plot, I don't want sword and sandal tales, to take a complete backseat to Gorean sexual practices & philosophical ramblings on gender roles. This particular concern of mine ruined Tribesmen for me and I will discuss it here and now. In the latter part of the book Tarl, or Hakim of Tor as he's known for this mission, uses a Kur ring of invisibility to infiltrate the last remaining stronghold of Kurii agents and after unlocking a gate to allow a storming of the Kasbah he spends page after page lecturing Vella about her subservient role and women's in general need for submissiveness and degradation. Look, I'm absolutely 100% fine with whatever the author believes in his personal life and/or whatever the practices/beliefs of Gor are in regards to women because this is FANTASY and if it's well written and engaging to me then I'll ride the wave with you, BUT!! for fucks sake does this need to be discussed during the climatic final battle! Tarl's sermon to Vella could not have had worse timing. I've been giving Gor the benefit of the doubt so much, but even this one I couldn't excuse. I think the one practical, yet poignant way out this could have been for Tarl's story arc and mental journey to be emphasized with the encounter with Vella. In Marauders, Tarl becomes fully hardened and "awoken" to his Warrior Caste spirit and place on Gor by his battle against Kurii with the virile and free Northerners. Since female slavery is such a center-point in the Gor series why not complete that "hardening" of Tarl and make the reunion of Vella and him what it should be, a reunion of born-to-be slave and born-to-be Master, but without his Socratic dialogue. Tarl made the unimaginable journey back from Klima, brought back the slave silk of Vella, and realized his relation to women: so I understand him chaining her, using her, branding her (all which he did), and I think this all completes the story arc of him becoming Gorean and shedding the last of his "earthliness", but again, I must repeat, why the hell does this happen when it happens and why does Tarl deign to waste so many words on a mere slave! I'm excited to read the 11th chronicle of Gor with this new Tarl, but I'm also anxious lest it be dragged down with oration.
A note on the female slavery stuff before I move onto my second complaint about Tribesmen: it's getting too absurd and redundant. The "proud and free" woman Tarna is captured and after a threeway gangbang with Tarl and Hassan she's in rabid heat and infatuated with her chains and new position. Come on!! Jesus Christ. I could plausibly believe that a woman could be transformed into liking her subjugated position such as in Assassins because there we get an understanding of the slave house's processes, but after one hard "using"? Really?
Secondly, what the hell happened to something happening. With the exception of Klima which was by far my favorite part of the book, very little occurs and what does happen is plagued with, dare I say it: ridiculousness. The Kurii want to blow up the planet so they park a bomb in the desert and guard it with one Kur AND rig the bomb with a time mechanism reminiscent of every shit Hollywood movie cliche ever. The whole Middle East is about to jihad, but they don't because some dudes in chains have a tattoo on backwards. The main bad guy tells the whole secret plot to Tarl before killing him, no wait, not before killing him but before sending him on a long journey meant to make him suffer. Somehow he escapes. Bad James Bond and/or good Austin Powers would like their plot device back. I think this book could have easily been as good as Marauders if a similar approach to crafting the story would have been taken. Imagine with me here that the "steel tower" in the most deserted region of Gor would have been a Kurii ship landed loaded with Kur as a full on invasion force. In Marauders we got Vikings vs. Space Bear/Gorilla hybrids and it was awesome! I was more than ready and willing for round 2 with some badass Bedouins, Turks, Arabs etc to take the place of Vikings! The scene where tens of thousands of nomadic riders line up to do battle should have been against the Kurii invasion force after the Kurii local population failed. Just an idea, but I think a better one than much ado about nothing.
All in all this release of Gor was disappointing and forgettable. I'm enjoying the series so far though so I won't let one get me down. A good word to be said about Tribesmen should be had and that is most definitely Klima. Mr. John Norman has an excellent way of making some of his landscapes truly come to life in vivid detail in my mind's eye and Klima did so. Everything about it from its utter remoteness to its brutal conditions evokes suffering and hardness that is new and original even after Tarl having been places like The Mines of Tharna in Outlaws. The salt caves and the fight with the Old One are, to me, a wonderful example of a tangent in storytelling that has no real purpose to the plot (I realize that by Tarl saving T'Zshal he gains his favor and therefore release from Klima, but this could've been done in any number of other minor ways), but yet adds so much to the story. Great chapters that redeem Tribesmen somewhat.
On to the next one!
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
October 9, 2014
Tarl has another new name and is now know as Hakim. In this novel he is off to the Middle East, err, I mean the Gorean desert to track down a steel tower and do some heroic work.
Now I don't know if it's because I have learned to skip entire pages of Norman's waffle about slavery, or if there wasn't as much in this book, but I quite enjoyed the story and found he didn't harp on as much about all women desiring to be slaves. Well except for the final useless chapter which was all about how whipping and raping a girl will make her love you.
The story is fast paced and the change of location to a desert filled with warring tribes was interesting.
Tarl is still a prick.
Now I don't know if it's because I have learned to skip entire pages of Norman's waffle about slavery, or if there wasn't as much in this book, but I quite enjoyed the story and found he didn't harp on as much about all women desiring to be slaves. Well except for the final useless chapter which was all about how whipping and raping a girl will make her love you.
The story is fast paced and the change of location to a desert filled with warring tribes was interesting.
Tarl is still a prick.
May 16, 2012
I have no idea why I tortured myself with this book. The constant stream of commas, run on sentences, and flashbacks made me want to beat my head against the wall until I couldn't see any more.
The supposed kink of the series wasn't even close to being worth the torment.
The supposed kink of the series wasn't even close to being worth the torment.
October 2, 2012
I love a book with sword play and fantasy
October 21, 2022
Tarl Cabot no longer serves the Priest-Kings, but everybody else assumes he does, so he might as well serve them. A cryptic message found in the desert followed by a mysterious message delivered to him send him packing to the wastes of southeastern Gor where he hopes to thwart another Kur plot to enslave Gor and subsequently Earth.
That sounds a little flippant, but with this 10th Gor book, Norman commits the cardinal sin of being boring. As I said in an earlier Gor review, I don't mind a lecture in a book. But here, Norman overdoes it. And while I like the story of this book, it was almost a 50/50 split between lecture and story (at least that's how it seemed to me.)
I never feel like Cabot is any REAL danger so his escape from seemingly perilous situations is more interesting than exciting. I don't expect a lot from pulp fantasy books, but exciting would help.
Still, what there is in Tribesmen makes it a passable timewaster.
So here's where I stand after the first 10 Gor books:
After reading the first 10 books, 7 or 8 interviews with Norman, and trying to understand his doctoral thesis (which isn't easy for me, I'm not a philosopher), I have decided that John Norman (John Frederick Lange Jr) is neither a particularly bad writer nor a misogynist.
The first Gor novels seem to be a product of the 60s, He was married with 3 children and revenue for his Gor books helped with the bills. The idea of a society of dominate men and submissive/enslaved women was something that he could fit into his philosophy of the naturalistic fallacy and he ran with it. He was probably bombarded with feminist ideas constantly in his workplace and it more than likely annoyed the crap out of him. And there is a sense of fun about the first 5 Gor books that make them readable.
But I sensed a change in tone with #6; and #7 was probably just a big FU to the militant feminists of the time. His first 6 books were published by Ballantine, but when Betty Ballantine took over the company, she cancelled contracts with Norman. He then found a home at Daw books for his next 20 Gor novels. But when Wollhein's daughter Betsy took over, she not only cancelled Norman's contracts, but got other sci-fi/fantasy lines to blacklist him. But through it all, Norman seems to have a genuine love and respect for women. He and his wife probably did roleplay in the bedroom (I have no desire to read Imaginative Sex, so I'll just take it for granted that he and the wife roleplayed). But who cares?
People who Norman is trolling, that's who. Yes. Norman is trolling militant feminists. He didn't have the internet in the 60s and 70s. Even if he did, he would just be another troll amongst the millions of them out there in cyberspace. So he used pulp literature. And it's worked. For 50 years.
Deal with it in a positive way. Or not. I don't care.
It's noteworthy that he has never endorsed (nor discouraged) any Gorean society online or otherwise. He has written letters of appreciation to online sites that have concentrated on his novels, but stopped when they started to endorse SecondLife societies.
But I sense another change coming in the novels. One that might simply make the series boring. So I'm going to leave off here for a time. I'll return to Gor, but I have other things I want to read right now.
For what it's worth:
Favorite Gor book: Nomads of Gor
Favorite male character: Hup the Fool
Favorite female character: Luma, accountant of the House of Bosk
Favorite slave character: Vella, the earthwoman Elizabeth Cardwell
So. Well. There it is.
May you always have water.
That sounds a little flippant, but with this 10th Gor book, Norman commits the cardinal sin of being boring. As I said in an earlier Gor review, I don't mind a lecture in a book. But here, Norman overdoes it. And while I like the story of this book, it was almost a 50/50 split between lecture and story (at least that's how it seemed to me.)
I never feel like Cabot is any REAL danger so his escape from seemingly perilous situations is more interesting than exciting. I don't expect a lot from pulp fantasy books, but exciting would help.
Still, what there is in Tribesmen makes it a passable timewaster.
So here's where I stand after the first 10 Gor books:
After reading the first 10 books, 7 or 8 interviews with Norman, and trying to understand his doctoral thesis (which isn't easy for me, I'm not a philosopher), I have decided that John Norman (John Frederick Lange Jr) is neither a particularly bad writer nor a misogynist.
The first Gor novels seem to be a product of the 60s, He was married with 3 children and revenue for his Gor books helped with the bills. The idea of a society of dominate men and submissive/enslaved women was something that he could fit into his philosophy of the naturalistic fallacy and he ran with it. He was probably bombarded with feminist ideas constantly in his workplace and it more than likely annoyed the crap out of him. And there is a sense of fun about the first 5 Gor books that make them readable.
But I sensed a change in tone with #6; and #7 was probably just a big FU to the militant feminists of the time. His first 6 books were published by Ballantine, but when Betty Ballantine took over the company, she cancelled contracts with Norman. He then found a home at Daw books for his next 20 Gor novels. But when Wollhein's daughter Betsy took over, she not only cancelled Norman's contracts, but got other sci-fi/fantasy lines to blacklist him. But through it all, Norman seems to have a genuine love and respect for women. He and his wife probably did roleplay in the bedroom (I have no desire to read Imaginative Sex, so I'll just take it for granted that he and the wife roleplayed). But who cares?
People who Norman is trolling, that's who. Yes. Norman is trolling militant feminists. He didn't have the internet in the 60s and 70s. Even if he did, he would just be another troll amongst the millions of them out there in cyberspace. So he used pulp literature. And it's worked. For 50 years.
Deal with it in a positive way. Or not. I don't care.
It's noteworthy that he has never endorsed (nor discouraged) any Gorean society online or otherwise. He has written letters of appreciation to online sites that have concentrated on his novels, but stopped when they started to endorse SecondLife societies.
But I sense another change coming in the novels. One that might simply make the series boring. So I'm going to leave off here for a time. I'll return to Gor, but I have other things I want to read right now.
For what it's worth:
Favorite Gor book: Nomads of Gor
Favorite male character: Hup the Fool
Favorite female character: Luma, accountant of the House of Bosk
Favorite slave character: Vella, the earthwoman Elizabeth Cardwell
So. Well. There it is.
May you always have water.
April 25, 2018
Once again Tarl Cabot assumes yet another identity and explores yet another part of Gor; this time the southern desert region, the Tahari. Once again the culture and customs of this region are delineated, via a plot device involving a mysterious message indicating the need to search for a steel tower somewhere in the midst of the unforgiving Tahari desert. This message turns out to be more consequential than one might assume when it first appears. The two alien civilizations , Priest-Kings and Kurii, once again have a major role to play in the story. And finally, once again Tarl bonds with various manly men, whilst totally degrading and enslaving women right and left (but, it's okay, they like being enslaved, apparently). Poor Elizabeth Cardwell, aka Vella, appears again, and her fate is, well, predictable if you have read any of the preceding Gor books. There is plenty of action in the book, but it is slowed down immensely at times by the interminable conversations between Tarl and various slaves, especially Elizabeth, who can't seem to decide if she is a liberated Earth women or just wants to be a submissive slave. These conversations go around in circles, but the end result is never in doubt, knowing the way things roll in Gorean circles.
So, as I have said in previous reviews of this series, let the buyer beware. If you can stomach the sexual/sexist undertones (undertones being used ironically here), you will find a well drawn world, probably as rich as any in the realm of science fiction/fantasy. But it's a big if we're dealing with here. As I get deeper into the series, we'll see if my stamina holds out.
So, as I have said in previous reviews of this series, let the buyer beware. If you can stomach the sexual/sexist undertones (undertones being used ironically here), you will find a well drawn world, probably as rich as any in the realm of science fiction/fantasy. But it's a big if we're dealing with here. As I get deeper into the series, we'll see if my stamina holds out.
December 5, 2023
A Better Read
This book was enjoyable. The first really good book since Assassins of Gor. Tarl still takes forever to gain a clue and remains a bit of a jerk. Kudos to Elizabeth even tho her revenge backfired. Tarl is back with the Priest Kings and embarks on a mission to the desert. He is betrayed, escapes and befriends a Kur as they quest to save Gor from destruction. The abuse against women isn’t as graphic or horrible as a couple of previous books. I hope Tarl and Elizabeth figure out their relationship. I think theirs has the most chemistry.
This book was enjoyable. The first really good book since Assassins of Gor. Tarl still takes forever to gain a clue and remains a bit of a jerk. Kudos to Elizabeth even tho her revenge backfired. Tarl is back with the Priest Kings and embarks on a mission to the desert. He is betrayed, escapes and befriends a Kur as they quest to save Gor from destruction. The abuse against women isn’t as graphic or horrible as a couple of previous books. I hope Tarl and Elizabeth figure out their relationship. I think theirs has the most chemistry.
March 31, 2019
I’ve heard Norman has received a lot of criticism for the treatment of women in his books but this is the first in the series where I found it a distraction. While he is to be commended for some truly impressive world-building his constant return to themes on the subjugation of women seems less of a plot point and more of a campaign, or a personal vendetta.
Read
March 8, 2023there's a good chunk of this without women so Norman balances it out by being particularly heavyhanded with his nietzchean misogyny. i think i own 15 more Gor books but i'm not sure how much more repetitive gross diatribes i can take. why do i even keep reading these?
August 10, 2017
Connecting the most tenuous of clues, Tarl Cabot discovers the enemies of the Priest-Kings are up to no good out in the desert. Thinly-veiled Arab analogue ensues. (And some light BDSM.) (And rape. Lots and lots of rape.)
Lots of annoying plot holes in this book. The Kurii return, as well as their wings, which were largely forgotten in the previous book. Norman also makes a point of describing how the desert caravans travel only at night, to avoid the heat, and then he promptly forgets about that, and the majority of book describes them traveling during the day. Tarl gets himself enslaved at least twice in this book, an event the repercussions of which consisted of the plot of an entire book earlier, but now Tarl just shrugs off the ignominy. And then there's a line about how the strongest of women could only be as strong as an 11 year old boy. Really? I'm not sure what women Norman hangs around with (or boys, for that matter), but I'm pretty sure that's not accurate.
And really, the three "clues" Tarl uses as an excuse to go journeying were laughable.
For anyone other than a member of the MRA, it takes a thick skin and a cast-iron stomach to get through one of these books. Norman goes on one of this "men are superior/women are trash" rants in nearly every chapter (and sometimes more than once). The dude loves it. If he put half as much passion into his sex scenes as he did his misogynist rants, he'd give 50 Shades a run for its money.
Regardless, about midway through, Tarl's journey takes him to a locale with an absence of women, and then something amazing happens. Norman shuts up and actually tells his story. And it becomes quite an engaging tale, full of intrigue and betrayal and courage and battles and monsters and what not. It wasn't half bad. (Except for the part where a friendly Kur forgets it has wings again when it really needs them most.)
But the Tarl returns to more populous lands, and he runs into his first woman. Boy, oh boy, Norman must have been REALLY pent up, because she triggers the hell out him. Pretty much from that point on, the book was non-stop ranting about women being inferior and whatnot. Twice, three times, sometimes seven or eight times in a chapter, he'll postpone the story just to give us a lecture that could last PAGES.
I dunno, man, I'm sorry you mom didn't hug you more.
Lots of annoying plot holes in this book. The Kurii return, as well as their wings, which were largely forgotten in the previous book. Norman also makes a point of describing how the desert caravans travel only at night, to avoid the heat, and then he promptly forgets about that, and the majority of book describes them traveling during the day. Tarl gets himself enslaved at least twice in this book, an event the repercussions of which consisted of the plot of an entire book earlier, but now Tarl just shrugs off the ignominy. And then there's a line about how the strongest of women could only be as strong as an 11 year old boy. Really? I'm not sure what women Norman hangs around with (or boys, for that matter), but I'm pretty sure that's not accurate.
And really, the three "clues" Tarl uses as an excuse to go journeying were laughable.
For anyone other than a member of the MRA, it takes a thick skin and a cast-iron stomach to get through one of these books. Norman goes on one of this "men are superior/women are trash" rants in nearly every chapter (and sometimes more than once). The dude loves it. If he put half as much passion into his sex scenes as he did his misogynist rants, he'd give 50 Shades a run for its money.
Regardless, about midway through, Tarl's journey takes him to a locale with an absence of women, and then something amazing happens. Norman shuts up and actually tells his story. And it becomes quite an engaging tale, full of intrigue and betrayal and courage and battles and monsters and what not. It wasn't half bad. (Except for the part where a friendly Kur forgets it has wings again when it really needs them most.)
But the Tarl returns to more populous lands, and he runs into his first woman. Boy, oh boy, Norman must have been REALLY pent up, because she triggers the hell out him. Pretty much from that point on, the book was non-stop ranting about women being inferior and whatnot. Twice, three times, sometimes seven or eight times in a chapter, he'll postpone the story just to give us a lecture that could last PAGES.
I dunno, man, I'm sorry you mom didn't hug you more.
April 9, 2017
I can't tell if this was a novel with a decent plot, but filled with random diatribes and tangents about dominance and submission completely irrelevant to the story... or a shitty psychology dissertation about the inferiority of women and the justification of abusing them thinly hidden under some plot. Either way it was fucking awful.
May 23, 2011
I gave this one star only because it wasn't possible to give it zero. The storyline was all over the place, to the point that I couldn't follow the story because of all the unecessary flashbacks to something that happened two days prior. Rather than ABCDEFGHI... it was ADBCEHFGI.... Why skip ahead in time if you're just going to flash back to what you didn't cover??
And the lack of creativity was appalling. This book is about people led by Suleiman who live in the Tahari Desert. Really? You couldn't at least come up with your own names??
Don't even get me started on the whole lack of character development.
I made it through 9 of these, but I can't go any further without gouging out my eyes. Sorry.
And the lack of creativity was appalling. This book is about people led by Suleiman who live in the Tahari Desert. Really? You couldn't at least come up with your own names??
Don't even get me started on the whole lack of character development.
I made it through 9 of these, but I can't go any further without gouging out my eyes. Sorry.
March 12, 2012
I am not so sure that I really believe Mr Norman wrote this book himself. Mr Norman is capable of, and usually delivers, far better work than this - fast-paced, entertaining novels with plenty of action. It is true that Norman's usual quirky language patterns are evident throughout, but these little tricks are easily imitated, so to speak.
This book is marred throughout by long, polemical rants, often bearing little relationship to the story. It is tedious.
I would recommend to people reading their way through the Gorean saga that they skip this book.
This book is marred throughout by long, polemical rants, often bearing little relationship to the story. It is tedious.
I would recommend to people reading their way through the Gorean saga that they skip this book.
January 12, 2014
In which Tarl Cabot does 'Lawrence Of Arabia' (with a touch of 'Jaws' half-way in - yes, really!) and adds to his stable of slave girls who done him wrong into the bargain.
The convoluted plots of Priest Kings and Kurii are advanced via a labyrinthine storyline set in the Tahari Desert. And after this book, just as the plot gets rolling, we unaccountably leave the main character to take a bit of a diversion. First another slave girl story and then - in a twist to REALLY annoy the feminists - three books following Jason, a male slave. Who doesn't, as you might guess, stay a slave long...
The convoluted plots of Priest Kings and Kurii are advanced via a labyrinthine storyline set in the Tahari Desert. And after this book, just as the plot gets rolling, we unaccountably leave the main character to take a bit of a diversion. First another slave girl story and then - in a twist to REALLY annoy the feminists - three books following Jason, a male slave. Who doesn't, as you might guess, stay a slave long...
June 4, 2021
Was very good in the end, although the author's penchant for repeating things that he's already written about, sometimes just a paragraph or so previously gets quite annoying. I think I can see what he's trying to achieve by doing so, but it it doesn't really work, at least not if he's attempting to double down on the air of tension or emphasize that the characters are trying to drive home a particular point. It just comes across as particularly odd writing.
Anyway, I enjoyed it but it was in spite of the strange writing style rather than because of it.
Anyway, I enjoyed it but it was in spite of the strange writing style rather than because of it.
September 3, 2011
I read this whole series in a marathon session, while stationed in England. The depth and volume of the stories is humbling for any writer and I consider this series very influential in my own approach to writing and world building in general; generic post for all the books in this series as I am finally getting around to recording my reading list in Goodreads.
September 23, 2016
For those who have read the previous (9) issues of the Gorian saga, it is valuable to read. However, Norman does distract himself too easily with slave girls, saying that though, it is true to say that when the distraction is avoided, the story does win out, it does show quality in his action sequences and descriptions.
July 18, 2008
Tribesmen, as it turned out, was the last of the "good" Gor books. Cabot meets desert Bedouin types and there is a lot of action and intrigue. I breathed a sigh of relief. Two good ones in a row and I thought the Gor train was on the tracks and rolling into the future.
Only mildly sexist.
Only mildly sexist.
Read
September 10, 2016I remember liking the Gor series well enough in junior high and high school when I read them but I don't think I would enjoy them as much 25+ years later so I will recuse myself from rating any in the series.
May 29, 2015
Here we are again with Tarl who has finally taken back the role of a Champion of the Priest-Kings, much to my delight.
Still this story could have used a few more weeks of development I think before being released as it feels a little shallow at a few points.
Still this story could have used a few more weeks of development I think before being released as it feels a little shallow at a few points.
March 31, 2016
Ever read the old John Carter of Mars books? Well here is the more adult version of a man transported to a more savage world. Great adventure reads, but not for the faint at heart. Very adult material dealing with sex. Recommended
September 24, 2022
Same as old story - I am man, me hero, you slave woman, but still fantastic quick read.
Has all the elements of a good basic story.
Tarl's growth was interesting in this, that this would be the first time I would regard him to act of Gor, and not of Earth.
Has all the elements of a good basic story.
Tarl's growth was interesting in this, that this would be the first time I would regard him to act of Gor, and not of Earth.
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January 28, 2009GOR
Read
June 7, 2010science fiction,gor
Read
June 7, 2010science fiction,gor
March 5, 2015
1978 grade D+
Series book G10
Series book G10
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