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Where You Go Is Not Who You'll Be: An Antidote to the College Admissions Mania
Read award-winning journalist Frank Bruni's New York Times an inspiring manifesto about everything wrong with today's frenzied college admissions process and how to make the most of your college years.
Over the last few decades, Americans have turned college admissions into a terrifying and occasionally devastating process, preceded by test prep, tutors, all sorts of stratagems, all kinds of rankings, and a conviction among too many young people that their futures will be determined and their worth established by which schools say yes and which say no.
In Where You Go is Not Who You'll Be, Frank Bruni explains why this mindset is wrong, giving students and their parents a new perspective on this brutal, deeply flawed competition and a path out of the anxiety that it provokes.
Bruni, a bestselling author and a columnist for the New York Times, shows that the Ivy League has no monopoly on corner offices, governors' mansions, or the most prestigious academic and scientific grants. Through statistics, surveys, and the stories of hugely successful people, he demonstrates that many kinds of colleges serve as ideal springboards. And he illuminates how to make the most of them. What matters in the end are students' efforts in and out of the classroom, not the name on their diploma.
Where you go isn't who you'll be. Americans need to hear that--and this indispensable manifesto says it with eloquence and respect for the real promise of higher education.
Over the last few decades, Americans have turned college admissions into a terrifying and occasionally devastating process, preceded by test prep, tutors, all sorts of stratagems, all kinds of rankings, and a conviction among too many young people that their futures will be determined and their worth established by which schools say yes and which say no.
In Where You Go is Not Who You'll Be, Frank Bruni explains why this mindset is wrong, giving students and their parents a new perspective on this brutal, deeply flawed competition and a path out of the anxiety that it provokes.
Bruni, a bestselling author and a columnist for the New York Times, shows that the Ivy League has no monopoly on corner offices, governors' mansions, or the most prestigious academic and scientific grants. Through statistics, surveys, and the stories of hugely successful people, he demonstrates that many kinds of colleges serve as ideal springboards. And he illuminates how to make the most of them. What matters in the end are students' efforts in and out of the classroom, not the name on their diploma.
Where you go isn't who you'll be. Americans need to hear that--and this indispensable manifesto says it with eloquence and respect for the real promise of higher education.
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First published March 17, 2015
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About the author
Frank Bruni
20 books257 followersFrank Bruni was named restaurant critic for The New York Times in April 2004.
Before that, Mr. Bruni had been the Rome bureau chief from July 2002 until March 2004, a post he took after working as a reporter in the Washington D.C. bureau from December 1998 until May 2002. While in Washington, he was among the journalists assigned to Capitol Hill and Congress until August 1999, when he was assigned full-time to cover the presidential campaign of Gov. George W. Bush. He then covered the White House for the first eight months of the Bush administration, and subsequently spent seven months as the Washington-based staff writer for The New York Times Sunday Magazine.
Mr. Bruni is the author of The New York Times bestseller about George W. Bush called Ambling into History (HarperCollins: hardcover, 2002; paperback, 2003). He is also the co-author of A Gospel of Shame: Children, Sexual Abuse and the Catholic Church.
Before that, Mr. Bruni had been the Rome bureau chief from July 2002 until March 2004, a post he took after working as a reporter in the Washington D.C. bureau from December 1998 until May 2002. While in Washington, he was among the journalists assigned to Capitol Hill and Congress until August 1999, when he was assigned full-time to cover the presidential campaign of Gov. George W. Bush. He then covered the White House for the first eight months of the Bush administration, and subsequently spent seven months as the Washington-based staff writer for The New York Times Sunday Magazine.
Mr. Bruni is the author of The New York Times bestseller about George W. Bush called Ambling into History (HarperCollins: hardcover, 2002; paperback, 2003). He is also the co-author of A Gospel of Shame: Children, Sexual Abuse and the Catholic Church.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 644 reviews
March 11, 2020
The message in this book is very important for high school students to hear. Two months after I graduated from high school I decided to pick up this book from the library because I was very curious what the author had to say about elite universities. Turns out, there was a lot. Common misconceptions about elite university students making more once they graduate and being more likely to be hired are debunked in this book with data. My only complaint about this book is that it’s a little long than it should be and it focuses a little too much on anecdotes. Other than that this book is very good.
September 29, 2021
I am not the target audience for this book. This book is for American undergraduate students planning on studying in the US while I am considering becoming an international graduate student in Europe. Nonetheless, this book was exactly what I needed to read at this point of my life.
Anecdote heavy, Bruni describes the way elite universities are often overly celebrated. He claims that this focus on them leads students to miss other universities who might be actually better for them. It is sometimes better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond.
Along the way, Bruni shares some really interesting data. Research indicates that ambition to get accepted to an Ivy League university often mattes more for future success than actually going to such a university. When looking at lists of most successful people in various fields, it becomes clear that a hefty number hail from less elite universities.
As a side note, I'm not sure how compelling this is because the job market changes. We can say that in the older generation, Ivy League education is not the main factor for success but this shouldn't necessarily paint the decisions of young people who are approaching a very different reality. On one hand, competition now is more intense than ever but at the same time, education is more accessible. Will elite education serve as a way to distinct oneself or as an unnecessary investment in the time of self-learning and extreme inequality? We still cannot know based on current trends.
What one does throughout their studies is often more important than where they do the studies. Bruni points out that being able to use the university resources and build yourself up can have a massive impact on one's career trajectory, more than the brand name on the degree. Sometimes going to an elite university turns people lazy as they assume they've made it. Feeling like a failure motivates students from other universities to work harder and make the most of what they have.
On one level, this is comforting. Heck yes, people should be rewarded based on the work they do within their education. However, I'm in my country's best university and I've seen what some of my friends do in their colleges. The difference between what I learned in my Finance class and what a friend learned is insane. We literally learned everything they learned in the entire semester in two lessons. And when this is the case, I do want to be rewarded for my work, for people to recognize that my education required more than theirs. An A+ in their course and an A+ in mine simply isn't the same, as bitter as that sounds.
For me, the biggest insight from this book is that I can figure out which rankings and values are most important to me and seek out education based on that. Which yes, sounds obvious but I've been struggling to figure out how to shift through all the options. This book reiterated that education is a gift, a wonderful opportunity and that I want to find the university that works for me, that fits for my needs, rather than necessarily the one that sounds fanciest. The idea that I'm looking for what is best for me, rather than what is considered best by others. I do want to go to a university that is considered better than my own but maybe the difference between top 3 and top 30 isn't as big as I assume it is.
It should be said that right now, I'm still not clear on what exactly is my plan for the future. I do know that signing up for classes last week made me feel quite strongly that I'm not done with Politics. I still feel like a 15 year old, staring at all the knowledge and wanting more. There's so much more to learn. At the same time, I know that decisions shift and change. A good job opportunity or a fantastic offer from a professor at my university could make me give up on leaving.
But when I do think about what I care about, if I do chose to do a graduate degree abroad, beyond affordability, I want a university that has a small student to faculty ratio. My own university has 7:1 and I don't want to go higher than that. I want a place where I'm able to chat with my professors and feel like they see me as an individual. I'm a small pond type of person- I do better in warm communities.
I want a university with a large percent of international students. A university with a strong research output. I care more about the academics of the university than numbers relating to work or employability. Universities where knowledge is for the sake of knowledge, where people aren't career hungry, I am ridiculously ambitious but don't like admitting it so being in places where everyone else is also as ambitious as me usually brings out the worst in me (ahem, my current degree). Or at least, I seek a balance between ambition for curiosity and not ambition for power.
And if I'm trying to picture my dream university, I'd like it to have faculty who have been involved in peace negotiations. Not in theory but fully in practice, people who had a seat at the table and have hands on experience in resolving conflicts (and ideally, not the Irish one, I've yet to hear a person involved in the Good Friday agreement who wasn't some level of annoying). The dream would be staff who was involved in failing peace plans, people who saw the gap between theory and practice, especially in MENA.
I want a university with a strong Middle East studies program, maybe even one who offers student exchanges to Jordan cause Israeli unis don't offer that. This isn't necessarily that important as a university with strong EU vibes would probably also be equally as interesting but in theory, that would be a cool Masters experience if I could create Middle Eastern connections and learn about my region in a way that I can't in Israel.
And I'd like a university with some sort of recognition of the challenges of mental health in academia. A university should be judged by its ability to help students not feel like shit. I want to work hard but I also am so tired of being in spaces that seem to encourage mental health breakdowns.
I'd also like my future university to give back to its community. I don't think I'd be happy studying in a university that is a fortress of high education and does nothing to help share that knowledge. I want universities to take some sort of role in their community, especially if it's located in a low socio-economic area.
I also do care about some form of Jewish community. Doing Shabbats alone will 100% make me sad. I'm not picky on which community but I'd like to avoid being the only Jew on campus, especially if it's in a city that used to have a Jewish community prior to the Holocaust. I would probably spend way too much time thinking about it, like "I wonder how many Jews used to be here, I wonder where they died, I wonder if this old man here was involved in murdering them". Also, I gotta have somewhere to complain about the antisemitism that I'm inevitably going to experience.
And all of this isn't necessarily quantifiable in a QS ranking. There's so much room to think critically of what exactly I'm looking for and where exactly will I fit in best. It sounds silly but I did need this book to remind me that I do university for me and not for my CV.
To conclude, (though I doubt anyone will really read this far into my uni debate), this is a great book to give to a high school student in the US. It's a great book for parents in America as well. But beyond that, it was also an excellent reminder for me. I hope to return to this book and review when these decisions become more practical.
What I'm Taking With Me
- okay but a uni that has a course in wildlife survival, that is so so cool.
- And I've never thought too much about location like yeah, I want a university that has an old vibe to it, I'm so tired of my uni's architecture.
- ngl, the temptation to go to Berlin and study Art and Politics is huge, like come on, I just wanna reach the peak hipster levels
Anecdote heavy, Bruni describes the way elite universities are often overly celebrated. He claims that this focus on them leads students to miss other universities who might be actually better for them. It is sometimes better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond.
Along the way, Bruni shares some really interesting data. Research indicates that ambition to get accepted to an Ivy League university often mattes more for future success than actually going to such a university. When looking at lists of most successful people in various fields, it becomes clear that a hefty number hail from less elite universities.
As a side note, I'm not sure how compelling this is because the job market changes. We can say that in the older generation, Ivy League education is not the main factor for success but this shouldn't necessarily paint the decisions of young people who are approaching a very different reality. On one hand, competition now is more intense than ever but at the same time, education is more accessible. Will elite education serve as a way to distinct oneself or as an unnecessary investment in the time of self-learning and extreme inequality? We still cannot know based on current trends.
What one does throughout their studies is often more important than where they do the studies. Bruni points out that being able to use the university resources and build yourself up can have a massive impact on one's career trajectory, more than the brand name on the degree. Sometimes going to an elite university turns people lazy as they assume they've made it. Feeling like a failure motivates students from other universities to work harder and make the most of what they have.
On one level, this is comforting. Heck yes, people should be rewarded based on the work they do within their education. However, I'm in my country's best university and I've seen what some of my friends do in their colleges. The difference between what I learned in my Finance class and what a friend learned is insane. We literally learned everything they learned in the entire semester in two lessons. And when this is the case, I do want to be rewarded for my work, for people to recognize that my education required more than theirs. An A+ in their course and an A+ in mine simply isn't the same, as bitter as that sounds.
For me, the biggest insight from this book is that I can figure out which rankings and values are most important to me and seek out education based on that. Which yes, sounds obvious but I've been struggling to figure out how to shift through all the options. This book reiterated that education is a gift, a wonderful opportunity and that I want to find the university that works for me, that fits for my needs, rather than necessarily the one that sounds fanciest. The idea that I'm looking for what is best for me, rather than what is considered best by others. I do want to go to a university that is considered better than my own but maybe the difference between top 3 and top 30 isn't as big as I assume it is.
It should be said that right now, I'm still not clear on what exactly is my plan for the future. I do know that signing up for classes last week made me feel quite strongly that I'm not done with Politics. I still feel like a 15 year old, staring at all the knowledge and wanting more. There's so much more to learn. At the same time, I know that decisions shift and change. A good job opportunity or a fantastic offer from a professor at my university could make me give up on leaving.
But when I do think about what I care about, if I do chose to do a graduate degree abroad, beyond affordability, I want a university that has a small student to faculty ratio. My own university has 7:1 and I don't want to go higher than that. I want a place where I'm able to chat with my professors and feel like they see me as an individual. I'm a small pond type of person- I do better in warm communities.
I want a university with a large percent of international students. A university with a strong research output. I care more about the academics of the university than numbers relating to work or employability. Universities where knowledge is for the sake of knowledge, where people aren't career hungry, I am ridiculously ambitious but don't like admitting it so being in places where everyone else is also as ambitious as me usually brings out the worst in me (ahem, my current degree). Or at least, I seek a balance between ambition for curiosity and not ambition for power.
And if I'm trying to picture my dream university, I'd like it to have faculty who have been involved in peace negotiations. Not in theory but fully in practice, people who had a seat at the table and have hands on experience in resolving conflicts (and ideally, not the Irish one, I've yet to hear a person involved in the Good Friday agreement who wasn't some level of annoying). The dream would be staff who was involved in failing peace plans, people who saw the gap between theory and practice, especially in MENA.
I want a university with a strong Middle East studies program, maybe even one who offers student exchanges to Jordan cause Israeli unis don't offer that. This isn't necessarily that important as a university with strong EU vibes would probably also be equally as interesting but in theory, that would be a cool Masters experience if I could create Middle Eastern connections and learn about my region in a way that I can't in Israel.
And I'd like a university with some sort of recognition of the challenges of mental health in academia. A university should be judged by its ability to help students not feel like shit. I want to work hard but I also am so tired of being in spaces that seem to encourage mental health breakdowns.
I'd also like my future university to give back to its community. I don't think I'd be happy studying in a university that is a fortress of high education and does nothing to help share that knowledge. I want universities to take some sort of role in their community, especially if it's located in a low socio-economic area.
I also do care about some form of Jewish community. Doing Shabbats alone will 100% make me sad. I'm not picky on which community but I'd like to avoid being the only Jew on campus, especially if it's in a city that used to have a Jewish community prior to the Holocaust. I would probably spend way too much time thinking about it, like "I wonder how many Jews used to be here, I wonder where they died, I wonder if this old man here was involved in murdering them". Also, I gotta have somewhere to complain about the antisemitism that I'm inevitably going to experience.
And all of this isn't necessarily quantifiable in a QS ranking. There's so much room to think critically of what exactly I'm looking for and where exactly will I fit in best. It sounds silly but I did need this book to remind me that I do university for me and not for my CV.
To conclude, (though I doubt anyone will really read this far into my uni debate), this is a great book to give to a high school student in the US. It's a great book for parents in America as well. But beyond that, it was also an excellent reminder for me. I hope to return to this book and review when these decisions become more practical.
What I'm Taking With Me
- okay but a uni that has a course in wildlife survival, that is so so cool.
- And I've never thought too much about location like yeah, I want a university that has an old vibe to it, I'm so tired of my uni's architecture.
- ngl, the temptation to go to Berlin and study Art and Politics is huge, like come on, I just wanna reach the peak hipster levels
May 27, 2015
I really loved *MOST* of the message of this book.
The angst that many student feel about gaining admissions to the 20 or 50 "lottery schools" is counter-productive and harmful. Students can certainly get a great education at any number of colleges that aren't hailed by US News and World Report as the "Top" colleges. I have visited a number of campuses that have a huge impact on students without being hyper-selective. I love those campuses and encourage my students to explore the opportunities and advantages of attending a school that accepts more than a tiny fraction of their applicants.
I take issue with the flip side of his argument, which is that the students who do win the admissions lottery and end up at very selective campuses are somehow ill served by their experience (see Chapter 8, "Strangled with Ivy"). Some students do not take full advantage of being a part of their Ivy/near Ivy campus. Some are humbled and undercut by the challenge. But, as many students are transformed by their experiences at a super-selective school as are transformed by their experience at a less selective school. Isn't this the point? That, in fact, what you do once you get on campus is exponentially more important than where you go?
The angst that many student feel about gaining admissions to the 20 or 50 "lottery schools" is counter-productive and harmful. Students can certainly get a great education at any number of colleges that aren't hailed by US News and World Report as the "Top" colleges. I have visited a number of campuses that have a huge impact on students without being hyper-selective. I love those campuses and encourage my students to explore the opportunities and advantages of attending a school that accepts more than a tiny fraction of their applicants.
I take issue with the flip side of his argument, which is that the students who do win the admissions lottery and end up at very selective campuses are somehow ill served by their experience (see Chapter 8, "Strangled with Ivy"). Some students do not take full advantage of being a part of their Ivy/near Ivy campus. Some are humbled and undercut by the challenge. But, as many students are transformed by their experiences at a super-selective school as are transformed by their experience at a less selective school. Isn't this the point? That, in fact, what you do once you get on campus is exponentially more important than where you go?
March 17, 2015
√ THE WHOLE THING DOESN'T MATTER AS MUCH AS YOU THINK
WHERE YOU GO IS NOT WHO YOU’LL BE goes against everything you’ve been told about college—i.e., do anything you can to get your son or daughter into the absolute BEST university you can. Getting into a top university is like the ultimate report card. When you get that "A" it means, "You have arrived!" So, take practice SAT tests, hire tutors; talk to alumni--in short, DO ANYTHING! Try for Harvard or Yale—or maybe Stanford. Of course, one need hardly mention the lowly community colleges. That’s for those who don't want to succeed.
This modern thinking is utter folly, explains Frank Bruni. First of all, you need to see that your value as a person is NOT the same as the school you attend. For one thing, it is simply a lie to connect top achievement solely to top universities. That is empirically untrue, shows the author. Instead, achieving your goals is a matter of perseverance, character, and drive of the individual—those are the keys, not the name of your alma mater.
The author cites numerous public figures—including presidents, many of whom went to second or even third-tier schools (I had not heard of many of their schools.) Ditto for top corporate executives. Of course, some CEOs indeed went to ivy league schools, but many did not. Ditto for honorees in science. The author concludes that “there’s no pattern” to achievement and the school. It’s a “patchwork.” The author also notes that the admittance process plays favorites in all kinds of ways, for example, athletic prowess.
The big danger in our falling victim to this line of thinking is that we start BELIEVING IT as a fundamental precept of our life. We allow a huge chunk of our life to get tied up into something that is simply FALSE.
√ WHERE YOU GO IS NOT WHO YOU’LL BE is a real wake up call to change how we think about American education--and more--how we think about what really matters in life. The lesson is simply this: The whole thing doesn’t matter as much as you think.
WHERE YOU GO IS NOT WHO YOU’LL BE goes against everything you’ve been told about college—i.e., do anything you can to get your son or daughter into the absolute BEST university you can. Getting into a top university is like the ultimate report card. When you get that "A" it means, "You have arrived!" So, take practice SAT tests, hire tutors; talk to alumni--in short, DO ANYTHING! Try for Harvard or Yale—or maybe Stanford. Of course, one need hardly mention the lowly community colleges. That’s for those who don't want to succeed.
This modern thinking is utter folly, explains Frank Bruni. First of all, you need to see that your value as a person is NOT the same as the school you attend. For one thing, it is simply a lie to connect top achievement solely to top universities. That is empirically untrue, shows the author. Instead, achieving your goals is a matter of perseverance, character, and drive of the individual—those are the keys, not the name of your alma mater.
The author cites numerous public figures—including presidents, many of whom went to second or even third-tier schools (I had not heard of many of their schools.) Ditto for top corporate executives. Of course, some CEOs indeed went to ivy league schools, but many did not. Ditto for honorees in science. The author concludes that “there’s no pattern” to achievement and the school. It’s a “patchwork.” The author also notes that the admittance process plays favorites in all kinds of ways, for example, athletic prowess.
The big danger in our falling victim to this line of thinking is that we start BELIEVING IT as a fundamental precept of our life. We allow a huge chunk of our life to get tied up into something that is simply FALSE.
√ WHERE YOU GO IS NOT WHO YOU’LL BE is a real wake up call to change how we think about American education--and more--how we think about what really matters in life. The lesson is simply this: The whole thing doesn’t matter as much as you think.
October 22, 2018
I believe the premise of this book is that your college choice doesn't dictate how successful you will be in life and that colleges don't determine worth. Now with that being said, I think that some colleges can open up opportunities to their students that others cannot.
I have three kids in college, next year it will be 4. Some of my kids love school and thrive in that environment and go to well-known universities and I have one that hates school and would just shrivel up in that high pressure environment. This one is in community college working at a slower pace. Every child is different and there is a perfect fit for each of them. It doesn't have to be a frantic, self-esteem busting experience. Find what works for your child.
I have three kids in college, next year it will be 4. Some of my kids love school and thrive in that environment and go to well-known universities and I have one that hates school and would just shrivel up in that high pressure environment. This one is in community college working at a slower pace. Every child is different and there is a perfect fit for each of them. It doesn't have to be a frantic, self-esteem busting experience. Find what works for your child.
May 7, 2015
I am fascinated with universities and colleges and where kids decide to go to school, how they hear about schools, and the quest to get into the "best" school. When I was deciding on my own secondary education I didn't have this mentality at all. I was lucky enough just to continue my education and then even better, to go on to graduate school. I attended two public universities, both which got me where I am today and I am grateful for the education. The title of this book is apt and it is exactly what Frank Bruni explores from different perspectives. The race and shear madness that kids and parents put themselves through to get into Ivy League schools is a shameful and I hope my kids never feel the pressure from anyone to go to the best school.
The US News & World Report top colleges list is wrought with ratings problems but we all read it and believe it. Bruni attacks this error and others with good research and examples. Geography and what a student makes of his/her time and the effort exerted while in college are huge determinants of future success and job availability as well as salary.
A very good book that I'm glad I read before my family hits this time in our lives. I'd love to read more books similar to this one. I simply find the search and college admissions process intriguing.
The US News & World Report top colleges list is wrought with ratings problems but we all read it and believe it. Bruni attacks this error and others with good research and examples. Geography and what a student makes of his/her time and the effort exerted while in college are huge determinants of future success and job availability as well as salary.
A very good book that I'm glad I read before my family hits this time in our lives. I'd love to read more books similar to this one. I simply find the search and college admissions process intriguing.
May 13, 2015
If you have a high school student, then you're probably aware of how competitive it is to get into college. Everyone has a story about a straight A student with 2400 SATs who got rejected from an elite school. People will rant about how crazy the college admissions process is -- how even the best students are getting rejected by schools that just decades ago, people hadn't even heard of. But do you want to know what is really crazy? It's the things people will do to try to increase their chances to get into an 'elite' school. They will spend thousands of dollars on prep courses for the SAT. They will hire private college counselors in MIDDLE school. In my neighborhood, there are even some academic coaching companies that will guarantee that your child will get into one of the top 15 schools ... for the small fee of $49,000 dollars. The question is why have we become obsessed with admission into these schools? Will our children be better people? Will they make more money? Is it important that they make money? Is it for our own egos?
Author Frank Bruni, a NY Times columnist has written an excellent book about the college admissions mania. This book is filled with some interesting stories about individuals who didn't go to those top schools as well as offers a good dose of courage for parents to walk their own path as they navigate the whole college admission process. Will things change and become more sane? I sure hope so.
Author Frank Bruni, a NY Times columnist has written an excellent book about the college admissions mania. This book is filled with some interesting stories about individuals who didn't go to those top schools as well as offers a good dose of courage for parents to walk their own path as they navigate the whole college admission process. Will things change and become more sane? I sure hope so.
July 3, 2022
Eye-opening, highly recommended to my goodreads friends in high school. After reading it I’m much less stressed about college admissions. It’s just over 200 pages and is an enlightening read!
August 3, 2015
I have spent my entire career working in college admissions, mostly at highly selective institutions. I do like this book, or at least what Bruni is trying to get across, and I even recommend it to families with kids heading into the college admission process. While it is essentially a synthesis of information readily available elsewhere, I am not aware of any other book which has pulled all this together, and that is a plus for Bruni. I also know a number of school counselors who are urging their families to read it. All that being said, I just wish it were better. As other reviewers have pointed out, this reads like a collection of columns. It also reads to me like the kinds of book Bruni decries which are making money over the current anxiety over admission to the most competitive colleges.
The elephant in the room is the author seems as obsessed with the Ivies as he complains that affluent families are. As someone else has pointed out, that 20-30% if the eminent achievers he documents on six or seven lists are graduates of Ivy and/or Ivy-type schools is way beyond the share of college goers who attend institutions of this type. And he undercuts this point by including data showing that 40% of two entering classes at Yale Law came from Ivy League undergraduate educations. (And that was way too many lists to make the same point over and over). I also wish he had made it clear which schools he was including as he compiled these statistics; the Ivies, yes, but what are the others?
A similar point where I think he contradicts himself is when he (correctly, to my way of thinking) criticizes families having their children build community service resumes, but earlier in the book had expressed great approval of a student’s extracurricular involvement which included “100 hours of community service.” The kid, by the way, sounded like a terrific guy, but, sadly, the resume Bruni includes did not sound competitive to me for the uber-selective schools to which he was applying. And, as a side note, I have always been saddened by people counting their hours of community service. It seems to me to undercut the spirit in which serving others should be approached.
One of my questions about the success of alumni of the most selective schools is the extent to which their undergraduate education contributed to their success. When these schools have admission rates below 15%, they are enrolling students who will be likely to be successful in life whether they attend these schools or not. I have long wondered how the “value added” might be assessed.
I do consider it constructive that he makes it clear that fewer than half the places in the entering classes at the most competitive schools are actually in play for a student without a “hook” (athletics, legacy status, etc). So if a school has a 5% admit rate and you do not fall into a target group, the actual chance for admission is under 3%. I part company with Bruni when he says that in addition to the six preferential categories he lists, there are many other students who have access to “pull” which results in their admission. This is documented by a quotation from a single independent educational consultant, and based on my thirty years in admissions work, it is simply not accurate. Those cases do happen, and in a very few schools may be more common, but by and large, they are rare.
Speaking of independent consultants, they are represented in this book by three people, and the two I have heard of are priced dramatically beyond what almost all other college consultants charge.
Bruni’s discussion of the Krueger-Dale study is appropriate, but there are a number of other studies which contradict their findings. Similarly, while I respect and tend to agree with Deresiewicz’s criticism of Ivy League undergraduates (and I did attend one of those schools), a lot has been written which takes issue with his views and some of it is compelling. Both discussions are a bit glib and could have been more accurate and thoughtful.
The central point Bruni is making is such a good one, though, that the book does become important. A student can be successful wherever he or she enrolls at the undergraduate level. And there is a downside to any institution, even the Ivy League, if it does not match the interests, needs, learning style and community ethos appropriate for the student. While I think he overdoes what others have referred to as “Ivy bashing,” I do think the elite schools come in for too little critical analysis, since they are not the best match for every superior student.
I suppose in the end my difficulty with the book is that it misses the ethos of professional admissions. His criticisms are often on target, but they are oversimplified. I found it a bit odd that the admissions professionals he quoted (including me) are almost all no longer working in the field, and no admissions dean was included in the acknowledgements. But the book is not intended for those of us who have struggled with these issues in our work world. It is aimed at the educated (and, dare I say it, affluent) college-aware public, and probably serves their needs reasonably well. While I am disappointed in the book, and do not feel what Bruni sets out to do can be done in a work this short, I am happy to recommend that people read it.
The elephant in the room is the author seems as obsessed with the Ivies as he complains that affluent families are. As someone else has pointed out, that 20-30% if the eminent achievers he documents on six or seven lists are graduates of Ivy and/or Ivy-type schools is way beyond the share of college goers who attend institutions of this type. And he undercuts this point by including data showing that 40% of two entering classes at Yale Law came from Ivy League undergraduate educations. (And that was way too many lists to make the same point over and over). I also wish he had made it clear which schools he was including as he compiled these statistics; the Ivies, yes, but what are the others?
A similar point where I think he contradicts himself is when he (correctly, to my way of thinking) criticizes families having their children build community service resumes, but earlier in the book had expressed great approval of a student’s extracurricular involvement which included “100 hours of community service.” The kid, by the way, sounded like a terrific guy, but, sadly, the resume Bruni includes did not sound competitive to me for the uber-selective schools to which he was applying. And, as a side note, I have always been saddened by people counting their hours of community service. It seems to me to undercut the spirit in which serving others should be approached.
One of my questions about the success of alumni of the most selective schools is the extent to which their undergraduate education contributed to their success. When these schools have admission rates below 15%, they are enrolling students who will be likely to be successful in life whether they attend these schools or not. I have long wondered how the “value added” might be assessed.
I do consider it constructive that he makes it clear that fewer than half the places in the entering classes at the most competitive schools are actually in play for a student without a “hook” (athletics, legacy status, etc). So if a school has a 5% admit rate and you do not fall into a target group, the actual chance for admission is under 3%. I part company with Bruni when he says that in addition to the six preferential categories he lists, there are many other students who have access to “pull” which results in their admission. This is documented by a quotation from a single independent educational consultant, and based on my thirty years in admissions work, it is simply not accurate. Those cases do happen, and in a very few schools may be more common, but by and large, they are rare.
Speaking of independent consultants, they are represented in this book by three people, and the two I have heard of are priced dramatically beyond what almost all other college consultants charge.
Bruni’s discussion of the Krueger-Dale study is appropriate, but there are a number of other studies which contradict their findings. Similarly, while I respect and tend to agree with Deresiewicz’s criticism of Ivy League undergraduates (and I did attend one of those schools), a lot has been written which takes issue with his views and some of it is compelling. Both discussions are a bit glib and could have been more accurate and thoughtful.
The central point Bruni is making is such a good one, though, that the book does become important. A student can be successful wherever he or she enrolls at the undergraduate level. And there is a downside to any institution, even the Ivy League, if it does not match the interests, needs, learning style and community ethos appropriate for the student. While I think he overdoes what others have referred to as “Ivy bashing,” I do think the elite schools come in for too little critical analysis, since they are not the best match for every superior student.
I suppose in the end my difficulty with the book is that it misses the ethos of professional admissions. His criticisms are often on target, but they are oversimplified. I found it a bit odd that the admissions professionals he quoted (including me) are almost all no longer working in the field, and no admissions dean was included in the acknowledgements. But the book is not intended for those of us who have struggled with these issues in our work world. It is aimed at the educated (and, dare I say it, affluent) college-aware public, and probably serves their needs reasonably well. While I am disappointed in the book, and do not feel what Bruni sets out to do can be done in a work this short, I am happy to recommend that people read it.
July 29, 2017
I think the premise of this book was great - the pressure to go to the *perfect* college is one many teens suffer from and dissecting that is important. However, I found the book very repetitive and it wasn't really a read I enjoyed the process of reading.
Note: It brings up eating disorders and self-harm without a trigger warning, so be aware of that.
Note: It brings up eating disorders and self-harm without a trigger warning, so be aware of that.
April 26, 2015
An expanded op-ed that didn't need to be.
March 26, 2024
This was really good AND I listened some with my Sophomore. I think we could all use a little “calm down” about the whole college application thing. Statistically it seems that what affects your success in life more than attending an elite school is how you use the opportunities available to you wherever you go. And that means the devaluing of you as a person, the labeling as “not good enough” by a school that possibly marketed hard for you to apply, knowing that they would reject you because they need to keep application numbers high and acceptance rates low to make sure that they are continued to seen as the most valuable education is absolutely meaningless!
It’s crazy that many apply to 10-20 colleges! I only applied to one!
I really enjoyed the stories of people who were greatly successful in their lives despite attending lower tier schools. Or maybe BECAUSE of it! Author John Green got disappointing school acceptance letters but his story included here is pretty great!
It’s crazy that many apply to 10-20 colleges! I only applied to one!
I really enjoyed the stories of people who were greatly successful in their lives despite attending lower tier schools. Or maybe BECAUSE of it! Author John Green got disappointing school acceptance letters but his story included here is pretty great!
May 6, 2015
As the parent of a high school senior about to go off to college and having to make a smart choice as to where to go, I found this book incredibly timely. It sends a message I thought I knew yet need to hear again and again: that for some reason we value the brand name of a university, the "elite factor," much higher than it should be valued if we rationally looked at all the factors important in school choice.
Frank Bruni is so talented in getting this message across. He presents us with dozens of resumes of well-known people we admire who went to what he calls the "unsung" alma maters. Howard Schultz, Chris Christie, Condoleeza Rice, and Christiane Amanpour get a mention, among many many more. He shows, again and again, how countless success stories are forged by such things as hard work, a winding instead of a straight path, often one littered with obstacles and setbacks, by an intense passion for something, anything, by "an openness to serendipity that sometimes gets edited out of the equation when you're blindly accepting the marks that your parents and your peers have all agreed on..., a willingness to shoot off in a new direction and an attention to the particular virtues of the landscape right around them rather than an obsession with the promised glories of the imagined terrain around the bend."
It is sentences like the above, even if he's preaching to the choir, that made this book worth it for me.
Bruni also takes apart the U.S. News and World Report college ranking that has risen to bible status yet is a very faulty predictor of university excellence at best, putting way too much weight on selectivity and admission counselors' opinions and giving rise to myriad ways universities can game the system to improve their rank. He reveals some fascinating studies linking later success not only with average SAT scores at schools attended but at schools one was rejected from.
He also points out the dangers of exerting all this pressure on our kids from the seventh grade onwards, all geared to setting them on the path to greatness as defined by which college they get into. "My fear is that these kids are always going to be evaluating their self-worth in terms of whether they hit the next rung society has placed in front of them at exactly the time that society has placed it." Let alone the fact that we might create "contrived mannequins" who assemble their record and even their life in a way they think pleases an admissions office at an elite school rather than pursuing their interests and passions.
I loved the parts where he points out the ridiculousness of the kind of resume polishing kids and parents are driven to, even as early as pre-Kindergarten. A mother is worried her son doesn't have enough "enriching" experiences on his college applications and asks an admissions consultant if perhaps he should be made to build a dirt road in India or Africa. "If Yale might be impressed by an image of her son with a small spade, large shovel, rake or jackhammer in his chafed hands, she was poised to find a third-world setting that would produce that sweaty and ennobling tableau."
There is one caveat: If by reading this book you're looking for absolute proof that an elite school isn't necessary for your success, especially if you define success by one day running a Fortune 500 company, you won't find it. In fact, the numbers presented show rather the opposite. Yes, not the majority of top CEOs come from Ivy League schools, but a large enough number do, so as to overrepresent these schools substantially when compared to the total number of alumni produced. This book isn't about numbers, it's about how we value education. By the label that society places on it, or by what learning we ultimately get out of it.
Critics might also say it's too narrow of a book, and that's a valid point. It's really only targeted at those middle and upper class kids (and their parents) who have no doubt they will go to college, and probably to grad school too, and it's designed to make those feel better who don't get into their top choice, as well as give those who do the confidence to turn down the most ridiculous offers and go with a lower-priced one that is bound to get them just as far in life without bankrupting the entire family or saddling them with huge debt. And yes, it's really just an extensive collection of essays on the topic of college admissions, as one reviewer pointed out. But they are excellent essays full of information and thought-provoking tenets, and they are woven together seamlessly by Bruni's talented hand.
If you're not in the college admissions game, you might skip this book. But if you are, you should not proceed without it.
Frank Bruni is so talented in getting this message across. He presents us with dozens of resumes of well-known people we admire who went to what he calls the "unsung" alma maters. Howard Schultz, Chris Christie, Condoleeza Rice, and Christiane Amanpour get a mention, among many many more. He shows, again and again, how countless success stories are forged by such things as hard work, a winding instead of a straight path, often one littered with obstacles and setbacks, by an intense passion for something, anything, by "an openness to serendipity that sometimes gets edited out of the equation when you're blindly accepting the marks that your parents and your peers have all agreed on..., a willingness to shoot off in a new direction and an attention to the particular virtues of the landscape right around them rather than an obsession with the promised glories of the imagined terrain around the bend."
It is sentences like the above, even if he's preaching to the choir, that made this book worth it for me.
Bruni also takes apart the U.S. News and World Report college ranking that has risen to bible status yet is a very faulty predictor of university excellence at best, putting way too much weight on selectivity and admission counselors' opinions and giving rise to myriad ways universities can game the system to improve their rank. He reveals some fascinating studies linking later success not only with average SAT scores at schools attended but at schools one was rejected from.
He also points out the dangers of exerting all this pressure on our kids from the seventh grade onwards, all geared to setting them on the path to greatness as defined by which college they get into. "My fear is that these kids are always going to be evaluating their self-worth in terms of whether they hit the next rung society has placed in front of them at exactly the time that society has placed it." Let alone the fact that we might create "contrived mannequins" who assemble their record and even their life in a way they think pleases an admissions office at an elite school rather than pursuing their interests and passions.
I loved the parts where he points out the ridiculousness of the kind of resume polishing kids and parents are driven to, even as early as pre-Kindergarten. A mother is worried her son doesn't have enough "enriching" experiences on his college applications and asks an admissions consultant if perhaps he should be made to build a dirt road in India or Africa. "If Yale might be impressed by an image of her son with a small spade, large shovel, rake or jackhammer in his chafed hands, she was poised to find a third-world setting that would produce that sweaty and ennobling tableau."
There is one caveat: If by reading this book you're looking for absolute proof that an elite school isn't necessary for your success, especially if you define success by one day running a Fortune 500 company, you won't find it. In fact, the numbers presented show rather the opposite. Yes, not the majority of top CEOs come from Ivy League schools, but a large enough number do, so as to overrepresent these schools substantially when compared to the total number of alumni produced. This book isn't about numbers, it's about how we value education. By the label that society places on it, or by what learning we ultimately get out of it.
Critics might also say it's too narrow of a book, and that's a valid point. It's really only targeted at those middle and upper class kids (and their parents) who have no doubt they will go to college, and probably to grad school too, and it's designed to make those feel better who don't get into their top choice, as well as give those who do the confidence to turn down the most ridiculous offers and go with a lower-priced one that is bound to get them just as far in life without bankrupting the entire family or saddling them with huge debt. And yes, it's really just an extensive collection of essays on the topic of college admissions, as one reviewer pointed out. But they are excellent essays full of information and thought-provoking tenets, and they are woven together seamlessly by Bruni's talented hand.
If you're not in the college admissions game, you might skip this book. But if you are, you should not proceed without it.
August 10, 2016
A must-read for both parents and students as they enter the college search process. Bruni effectively debunks the ratings game and deftly describes what really matters to students and their future lives (not just careers).
December 31, 2022
can't really tell you why i read this but i was interested so i did. i have mixed feelings. if you're feelin beat down by the 'game' of college apps maybe give it a read. or if you end up at the school you never thought youd be at. maybe don't read as youre applying that just feels like a lot of anger + cynicism.
*i did not edit this nor did i refer back to the book i am just vibing*
where you go is not who you'll be starts off decently strong.
immediately you notice the reliance on anecdotes + interviews but its ok we can entertain the thought process.
and for the most part i see where he's going and there were a couple moment where i was like thats true! but there's also moments where i disagree straight up. the lack of acknowledgement for those points make the book significantly weaker and just sadder. colleges are definitely overhyped but this book just leans to hard one way (less selective is better) and i guess thats ok because common culture polarized the other way (more selective is great!) but to me it's just no longer an accurate nor believable protrayal of the issue.
some examples:
bruni compares the number of fullbright scholars from Harvard to other school, for example UMich.
-Harvard has 33, Michigan 28.
the point of this is to show hey! you can do this at other schools too and yes that proof is there.
-however, michigan is still selective, thats ok there were less selective schools on the list. i just think the mixing is a lil shady.
-but the bigger issue to me is the neglect to mention scale. he's comparing harvard + mich as if theyre equals. Michigan is literally like 5x-6x larger than harvard. to me, that completely changes the context, thus any statistic (there were a lot of them) that compared raw numbers just failed on all fronts.
my other major issue was the lack of consistency. bruni frequently cites stand out forbes all star people as success cases for less selective schools and thats great! he's proving proof of concept, he's saying you CAN do it from wherever. but when we're talking about Harvard, MIT, Cornell, etc it's all off handed generalizations- Yale students are intellectually incurious, Princeton kids want a checklist. every postive example for less seletive schools was preceded by the usual harvard/etc was there BUT, he never directly says anything positive of the ivies. that just really implies a cherry pickin attitude.
to me these generalizes serve one purpose- you know what ivy league schools+ their students are BAD. i think fundamentally that disagrees with the title- where you go is not who you are unless you went to an ivy then really youre just a loser who just does as they're told. and im sure they have a grain of truth in them but bruni fails to ever pass stereotypes + generalized anecdotes (from directors or admissions officers, people who reallyknow the student body). it's a massive difference from the like 30 interviews he did with others to prove his point about less selective schools. the whole of chapter 8 is literally just ivys actually suck lol. as a disclosure i was rejected from every ivy except the ones i didnt apply to so im really not trynna protect them. i genuinely think this section does nothing to help him prove/get through to anyone but rather just allows rage and annoyance. it takes away from legitimately critism- the lack of socioeconomic diversity, the true impact of legacy, etc. the real reason for chapter 8 is to describe a funnel effect (and resulting lack of passion in the pathways of ivy kids(backed up by a maximum of 3 anecdotes)) but it just reads like ivys suck i hate them i hate them here's a stat, here's why thats bad using one anecdote, here's why ivys just suck i hate them.
my last issue is the villians- parents. to me bruni stops too early in his path tracing of this mania. yes parents want to give their kids a leg up, but crucially it's out of fear. fear changes things. this isn't greed, parents are concerned. a college education isn't good enough anymore and frankly not everyone can be a self starter. bruni gets at this- it's the system but then goes back on it and implies that parents are the sole perpetrators. which is strange but sure. saying that i think the actionable items at the end are solid and i will be doing them.
anyways i only really mentioned the negatives but it did have some interesting insights. i specifically liked the diversity + honor college shoutout. this was also the first book i annotated and i have just a lot of underlines of me agreeing. i think the best time to read this would be maybe a year before you start the process or afterwards, this definitely isn't a book to read during. if you end up at a school you felt you wre better than i would definitely give this book a read.
*i did not edit this nor did i refer back to the book i am just vibing*
where you go is not who you'll be starts off decently strong.
immediately you notice the reliance on anecdotes + interviews but its ok we can entertain the thought process.
and for the most part i see where he's going and there were a couple moment where i was like thats true! but there's also moments where i disagree straight up. the lack of acknowledgement for those points make the book significantly weaker and just sadder. colleges are definitely overhyped but this book just leans to hard one way (less selective is better) and i guess thats ok because common culture polarized the other way (more selective is great!) but to me it's just no longer an accurate nor believable protrayal of the issue.
some examples:
bruni compares the number of fullbright scholars from Harvard to other school, for example UMich.
-Harvard has 33, Michigan 28.
the point of this is to show hey! you can do this at other schools too and yes that proof is there.
-however, michigan is still selective, thats ok there were less selective schools on the list. i just think the mixing is a lil shady.
-but the bigger issue to me is the neglect to mention scale. he's comparing harvard + mich as if theyre equals. Michigan is literally like 5x-6x larger than harvard. to me, that completely changes the context, thus any statistic (there were a lot of them) that compared raw numbers just failed on all fronts.
my other major issue was the lack of consistency. bruni frequently cites stand out forbes all star people as success cases for less selective schools and thats great! he's proving proof of concept, he's saying you CAN do it from wherever. but when we're talking about Harvard, MIT, Cornell, etc it's all off handed generalizations- Yale students are intellectually incurious, Princeton kids want a checklist. every postive example for less seletive schools was preceded by the usual harvard/etc was there BUT, he never directly says anything positive of the ivies. that just really implies a cherry pickin attitude.
to me these generalizes serve one purpose- you know what ivy league schools+ their students are BAD. i think fundamentally that disagrees with the title- where you go is not who you are unless you went to an ivy then really youre just a loser who just does as they're told. and im sure they have a grain of truth in them but bruni fails to ever pass stereotypes + generalized anecdotes (from directors or admissions officers, people who reallyknow the student body). it's a massive difference from the like 30 interviews he did with others to prove his point about less selective schools. the whole of chapter 8 is literally just ivys actually suck lol. as a disclosure i was rejected from every ivy except the ones i didnt apply to so im really not trynna protect them. i genuinely think this section does nothing to help him prove/get through to anyone but rather just allows rage and annoyance. it takes away from legitimately critism- the lack of socioeconomic diversity, the true impact of legacy, etc. the real reason for chapter 8 is to describe a funnel effect (and resulting lack of passion in the pathways of ivy kids(backed up by a maximum of 3 anecdotes)) but it just reads like ivys suck i hate them i hate them here's a stat, here's why thats bad using one anecdote, here's why ivys just suck i hate them.
my last issue is the villians- parents. to me bruni stops too early in his path tracing of this mania. yes parents want to give their kids a leg up, but crucially it's out of fear. fear changes things. this isn't greed, parents are concerned. a college education isn't good enough anymore and frankly not everyone can be a self starter. bruni gets at this- it's the system but then goes back on it and implies that parents are the sole perpetrators. which is strange but sure. saying that i think the actionable items at the end are solid and i will be doing them.
anyways i only really mentioned the negatives but it did have some interesting insights. i specifically liked the diversity + honor college shoutout. this was also the first book i annotated and i have just a lot of underlines of me agreeing. i think the best time to read this would be maybe a year before you start the process or afterwards, this definitely isn't a book to read during. if you end up at a school you felt you wre better than i would definitely give this book a read.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
June 20, 2015
First, a disclaimer. About 15 years ago I got accepted to a top-20 national research university. I was a good student, well-rounded, 33 ACT score... and a legacy. I have no idea how much that played into the outcome, other than the fact that it was a prominent question on the admission application. At the time, I had no doubt that I was a sure-thing candidate. Nowadays, I'm not so sure. The whole admissions process is fraught with a lot more complexity and stress than it was in 2000.
This book talks about the fervor surrounding college admissions: kids applying to a dozen or more schools is commonplace (I applied to--- and was accepted to-- four); families spend big bucks on tutors and admissions strategists; applicants engage in a lot of perfunctory volunteering and test-taking and begging influential people for recommendations; and a lot of them just flat-out fudge or lie about stuff in hopes of gaining an edge in the admissions battle. This is an important issue to discuss as the pressure to get a college education increases nearly as fast as the costs.
In Ivy League, egos are coddled and students are customers. Customers who've paid good money for good grades. The Ivies seem to be full of risk-averse people who are really great at getting accepted to programs but are somewhat less enthusiastic about actually completing those same programs. A lot of Ivy attendees seem to pursue a small number of conventional paths in school and want a recipe for success. Those at smaller schools seem to have room for quirkiness or greater opportunities to carve a unique path, plus many of the ones profiled in the book seemed to have a bit of an inferiority complex, working hard to prove themselves rather than resting on their "I got into Harvard" laurels.
I don't know that this book will change a lot of people's mindsets. It might, however, act as a salve for those who weren't admitted to their first choice colleges and are settling for the fallback plan. After reading it, I kind of wish I'd given more consideration to liberal arts colleges in order to have broadened my undergraduate opportunities to have actually done stuff. For a long time I was interested in laboratory sciences but at a research university with a renowned medical school there were very few opportunities for undergrads to get involved in laboratory research.
We'll be doing the college search thing in a decade or so and I feel with my own experiences ("you wouldn't believe the number of lazy, spoiled, risk-averse, unethical IDIOTS at [alma mater]*") I can guide my children away from name-brand schools only, and show them that there are a *lot* of exciting opportunities that don't come with an Ivy League label.
*They certainly weren't all that way or even mostly that way, but among the interesting, driven, diverse student body there were plenty of trustafarians and girls whining about whether to spend Spring Break in Vail or the Bahamas. And, in darker corners, people paying others to write their essays or those who tried to sue professors for enforcing the participation part of their grade.
This book talks about the fervor surrounding college admissions: kids applying to a dozen or more schools is commonplace (I applied to--- and was accepted to-- four); families spend big bucks on tutors and admissions strategists; applicants engage in a lot of perfunctory volunteering and test-taking and begging influential people for recommendations; and a lot of them just flat-out fudge or lie about stuff in hopes of gaining an edge in the admissions battle. This is an important issue to discuss as the pressure to get a college education increases nearly as fast as the costs.
In Ivy League, egos are coddled and students are customers. Customers who've paid good money for good grades. The Ivies seem to be full of risk-averse people who are really great at getting accepted to programs but are somewhat less enthusiastic about actually completing those same programs. A lot of Ivy attendees seem to pursue a small number of conventional paths in school and want a recipe for success. Those at smaller schools seem to have room for quirkiness or greater opportunities to carve a unique path, plus many of the ones profiled in the book seemed to have a bit of an inferiority complex, working hard to prove themselves rather than resting on their "I got into Harvard" laurels.
I don't know that this book will change a lot of people's mindsets. It might, however, act as a salve for those who weren't admitted to their first choice colleges and are settling for the fallback plan. After reading it, I kind of wish I'd given more consideration to liberal arts colleges in order to have broadened my undergraduate opportunities to have actually done stuff. For a long time I was interested in laboratory sciences but at a research university with a renowned medical school there were very few opportunities for undergrads to get involved in laboratory research.
We'll be doing the college search thing in a decade or so and I feel with my own experiences ("you wouldn't believe the number of lazy, spoiled, risk-averse, unethical IDIOTS at [alma mater]*") I can guide my children away from name-brand schools only, and show them that there are a *lot* of exciting opportunities that don't come with an Ivy League label.
*They certainly weren't all that way or even mostly that way, but among the interesting, driven, diverse student body there were plenty of trustafarians and girls whining about whether to spend Spring Break in Vail or the Bahamas. And, in darker corners, people paying others to write their essays or those who tried to sue professors for enforcing the participation part of their grade.
April 9, 2017
The most important statement I can say about this book is that every student should read this book in their freshmen or sophomore year of high school--yes, high school. Bruni's exploration into 3-Card Monte structure that is higher education when it comes to seducing students should be understood by all students as it has many long-term implications for them. Throughout the book, Bruni systematically breaks down the traditional mindset to aspire to elite colleges, noting how success in getting into them and success as a result of attending them is drastically overrated and over-played. He highlights a range of approaches and strategies that students should use to determine what form of higher education is best for them.
February 27, 2015
Where You Go does a good job of debunking the myth that you need to attend an Ivy league school to be successful in business or government. A less prestigious school can be just as good according to the author. Success depends more on ability and effort. The book is a good read for high scholl juniors and seniors thinking of attending college and their parents. This was a few advance read, review copy.
November 3, 2015
Wish someone recommended this book during Andrews sophomore or junior year in HS. Would have saved us all a lot of grief. A must read for any poor sucker about ready to enter the lions den unarmed.
July 15, 2025
A solid book that challenges the obsession that parents and students have with the craziness of the college admissions process.
I found this book interesting as someone who dealt with a lot of pressure (from parents, community, and myself) to get into elite colleges. While at the time it seemed like the college I would go to was the end-all-be-all, I discovered over time that it probably wasn’t as big of a deal as people made it out to be, and that there are many paths to success in life.
One chapter that I found insightful was Chapter 7 - An Elite Edge. In this chapter, the author acknowledges that graduates of selective colleges may be disproportionately more likely to enroll in top graduate schools and earn higher incomes. However, he makes a compelling case that this is due to those graduates’ underlying discipline, aptitude, and ambition (which made them more likely to apply to and get accepted by selective colleges in the first place) rather than the act of going to the selective college itself. In other words, if someone is smart and hard-working but goes to a less selective school, they’ll probably be pretty successful anyways.
The author cites one study by Alan Krueger and Stacy Dale that found that “graduates of more selective colleges could expect earnings 7 percent greater than graduates of less selective colleges,” assuming they had equivalent SAT scores and high school GPAs. Even this was less of a difference than I expected. But when you look specifically at the graduates of less selective colleges who had *applied* to selective colleges as well (thus demonstrating their ambition, even if they didn’t get in), the income gap disappeared.
Another interesting survey of business leaders conducted by Gallup in 2014 found that only 9 percent of the leaders described where an applicant had gone to college as “very important,” compared to 85 percent describing “field-relevant knowledge” as “very important.” These findings track what I have found in my own hiring experiences - job experience is much more important than college background, especially as you gain more years of experience. This has likely become even more true now that the concept of equity is gaining importance and people are learning about how the most selective schools are dominated by students from wealthy backgrounds.
Overall this was a good read! I think that parents and students stress out too much about the college admissions process and could benefit from learning about how you can be successful no matter where you go to school.
I found this book interesting as someone who dealt with a lot of pressure (from parents, community, and myself) to get into elite colleges. While at the time it seemed like the college I would go to was the end-all-be-all, I discovered over time that it probably wasn’t as big of a deal as people made it out to be, and that there are many paths to success in life.
One chapter that I found insightful was Chapter 7 - An Elite Edge. In this chapter, the author acknowledges that graduates of selective colleges may be disproportionately more likely to enroll in top graduate schools and earn higher incomes. However, he makes a compelling case that this is due to those graduates’ underlying discipline, aptitude, and ambition (which made them more likely to apply to and get accepted by selective colleges in the first place) rather than the act of going to the selective college itself. In other words, if someone is smart and hard-working but goes to a less selective school, they’ll probably be pretty successful anyways.
The author cites one study by Alan Krueger and Stacy Dale that found that “graduates of more selective colleges could expect earnings 7 percent greater than graduates of less selective colleges,” assuming they had equivalent SAT scores and high school GPAs. Even this was less of a difference than I expected. But when you look specifically at the graduates of less selective colleges who had *applied* to selective colleges as well (thus demonstrating their ambition, even if they didn’t get in), the income gap disappeared.
Another interesting survey of business leaders conducted by Gallup in 2014 found that only 9 percent of the leaders described where an applicant had gone to college as “very important,” compared to 85 percent describing “field-relevant knowledge” as “very important.” These findings track what I have found in my own hiring experiences - job experience is much more important than college background, especially as you gain more years of experience. This has likely become even more true now that the concept of equity is gaining importance and people are learning about how the most selective schools are dominated by students from wealthy backgrounds.
Overall this was a good read! I think that parents and students stress out too much about the college admissions process and could benefit from learning about how you can be successful no matter where you go to school.
August 5, 2019
As an educator and as a parent of a high school junior, this book was very useful for me. I knew the college admissions process was scandalous before the celebrity bribe story of March 2019, but I'm still glad I read this to understand it a little more deeply. Bruni doesn't offer advice for finding a good college fit, but that's o.k. The purpose of this book is to share just how and why the college admissions world has become so crazy, and to show that you will be o.k., and perhaps even better off, if you don't get into colleges deemed most prestigious according to the U.S. News and World Report or other ranking system.
January 13, 2023
I love Frank Bruni. Such a fun and engaging writer. A good reminder that “success” in life has more to do with who you are and how hard you work than the name of the school you attend. Makes me want to help my kids discover and cultivate their God-given gifts and also find and pursue their unique passions, while doing the same myself.
January 20, 2020
If you have a child applying to college in the US this book should be required reading. College admissions and Ivy League frenzy and extra-curricular he’ll are all part of a game of Emperors New Clothes. Very eye opening.
Read
February 16, 2022okay
October 2, 2023
Frank Bruni writes in a very accessible style (loved his memoir, Born Round). This book should be required reading for any parent of a high school student, or more accurately- any parent of a child of any age who feels pressure or caught up in a “race” to help their kid “succeed,” defined narrowly. This book is a good mix of engaging anecdotes, data, and “expert” commentary. I didn’t agree with or feel convinced by everything in here, but it was a healthy dose of big-picture, long-term perspective.
January 10, 2024
Great book.
January 9, 2023
Easy read. Lots of anecdotes and an overall great premise. All college provide a good education. A person's own character, hard work, etc make them successful not where they went to school. Definitely happy I read this as my daughter starts her college jouney.
September 15, 2023
FRANK BRUNI INTERVIEWED JOHN GREEN I GASPED—
okay, anyway, I think this book was perhaps a *bit* too anecdotal, but most research books aren’t, so whatever, I appreciate it.
okay, anyway, I think this book was perhaps a *bit* too anecdotal, but most research books aren’t, so whatever, I appreciate it.
June 28, 2016
There's no doubt that the college admissions process has spiraled out of control. After reading Meg Mitchell Moore's novel The Admissions earlier this year which satires the whole college admissions craziness at its core, Bruni gave me much to ponder about college acceptance. My oldest child is about to start his senior year this August, we are about to jump into this stressful process ourselves.
Ultimately, Where You Go Is Not Who You'll Be is about exploring more college options outside of the Ivy League and Stanford. Over the past two decades, the most elite colleges, namely Harvard, have significantly reduced their acceptance rates making them even more desirable to college bound seniors.
The worst part is there is this unspoken notion is that acceptance at an elite prestigious Ivy is the golden ticket to a perfect smooth-sailing life, as if acceptance unlocks the key to a successful life. Bruni is here to debunk the myth that going to an Ivy league does not dictate life success. There are so many over-looked under-rated colleges and universities. College pedigree isn't everything, but success is truly hinged on perseverance and grit. When a college bound student set his eyes only on Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc, they miss out on so much. Education is an adventure and adventure can be found outside the Ivy League. This book is about thinking outside the box when considering the college one will attend.
Ultimately, Where You Go Is Not Who You'll Be is about exploring more college options outside of the Ivy League and Stanford. Over the past two decades, the most elite colleges, namely Harvard, have significantly reduced their acceptance rates making them even more desirable to college bound seniors.
The worst part is there is this unspoken notion is that acceptance at an elite prestigious Ivy is the golden ticket to a perfect smooth-sailing life, as if acceptance unlocks the key to a successful life. Bruni is here to debunk the myth that going to an Ivy league does not dictate life success. There are so many over-looked under-rated colleges and universities. College pedigree isn't everything, but success is truly hinged on perseverance and grit. When a college bound student set his eyes only on Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc, they miss out on so much. Education is an adventure and adventure can be found outside the Ivy League. This book is about thinking outside the box when considering the college one will attend.
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