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Refuse To Drown
Manheim Township, PA, was rocked by a seemingly random triple-homicide during the summer of 2007. There were no witnesses, very few leads and no solid suspects. As days turned into weeks and the crime remained unsolved, the small-town neighborhood was filled with sadness, questions, and a growing sense of fear. One month after the murders, Tim Kreider’s son Alec was committed to a mental health hospital. One of Alec’s best friends had been one of the murder victims, and Tim feared that the loss had pushed his long-troubled son over the edge. Tim didn’t realize that his world was about to come crashing down around him. Refuse to Drown is the true story of a father’s despair and the type of perseverance that can lead to hope and healing.
211 pages, Kindle Edition
First published December 21, 2013
17 people are currently reading
540 people want to read
About the author
Tim Kreider
1 book19 followersBeing an only child and growing up with my grandparents, father, 2 aunts and 2 cousins my childhood was not typical for the 70's. The family dynamics were often challenging and laid a foundation for who I am today. Both for the good and in the areas in which I need to improve.
My first marriage failed and today I am married to an amazing women, Lynn, that has blessed me in ways I could have never imagined.
I attended Penn State University from 1985-1989 but was 5 credits short of my degree. Eventually, in 2012 I completed my degree in Political Science, with a secondary emphasis on psychology. I then enrolled in a masters program for clinical psychology but found it to not be what I had expected.
Today I enjoy a quiet evening with Lynn, a good glass of wine and relaxing music. When we can find the time we enjoy a round of golf or dinner with friends.
When I read it is usually for a specific purpose. Books that help me grow spiritually, emotionally, make me think or simply lift me up are what I seek out. It isn't unusual for me to be reading two or three books at one time. Over the years I've become somewhat less patient with the books I read. If it doesn't engage me relatively quickly I will often lose interest and not come back to it.
After over 20 years in the mortgage banking industry I have changed the course of my "professional" life. I work with Lynn at our fitness center as a personal trainer and group fitness instructor in yoga and boot camp. Additionally, I am working on sharing Refuse to Drown with others and actively speak at churches, youth groups, schools and other venues about the experience with my son Alec and the messages people can take away from our story.
The questions is often posed to me, do you think you'll write another book? It's too soon to tell, but we never know what the future may bring!
My first marriage failed and today I am married to an amazing women, Lynn, that has blessed me in ways I could have never imagined.
I attended Penn State University from 1985-1989 but was 5 credits short of my degree. Eventually, in 2012 I completed my degree in Political Science, with a secondary emphasis on psychology. I then enrolled in a masters program for clinical psychology but found it to not be what I had expected.
Today I enjoy a quiet evening with Lynn, a good glass of wine and relaxing music. When we can find the time we enjoy a round of golf or dinner with friends.
When I read it is usually for a specific purpose. Books that help me grow spiritually, emotionally, make me think or simply lift me up are what I seek out. It isn't unusual for me to be reading two or three books at one time. Over the years I've become somewhat less patient with the books I read. If it doesn't engage me relatively quickly I will often lose interest and not come back to it.
After over 20 years in the mortgage banking industry I have changed the course of my "professional" life. I work with Lynn at our fitness center as a personal trainer and group fitness instructor in yoga and boot camp. Additionally, I am working on sharing Refuse to Drown with others and actively speak at churches, youth groups, schools and other venues about the experience with my son Alec and the messages people can take away from our story.
The questions is often posed to me, do you think you'll write another book? It's too soon to tell, but we never know what the future may bring!
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October 24, 2014
I won this book as part of the Goodreads First-Read program.
On May 12, 2007 Maggie Haines experienced the worst tragedy any person can experience. Having come home a few days early from college she was at home in the early hours of the morning and listened as both her parents and 16 year old brother her brutally stabbed to death. Maggie escaped because the killer, thinking she was away at college, did not know she was home. She fled the house before the killer discovered her and vented his rage on another victim.
"Refuse to Drown" is the true story of a horrendous murder that took place in Manheim Township, Pa in May of 2007. The author, Tim Kreider, is the father of then 16 year old Alec Kreider. Alec is the young man that would eventually charged with such a horrendous crime.
When I received my book I really didn't know what the book was about. Had I known it was written by the Father of a convicted killer I very well may not have entered the contest: I'll explain in a moment. I figured the book would be a self indulgent story about how his son was simply a misunderstood young man with an undeveloped brain. If I had chosen not to read this book I would have been the loser.
"Refuse to Drown" is Mr. Kreider's true story of how he, as a Father, made the hard decision to turn his son into the police for murdering three people. He exposes the anger that lead young Alec to take three lives. After the murder of Alec's best friend Kevin, Tim worried about the emotional condition of his son. How would Alec react emotionally to the loss of his friend. Alec Kreider was an intelligent straight A student even taking advanced placement courses in school. But Alec was known to have issues with anger and dark thoughts. The Kreider family was concerned enough to try to get Alec therapy for his anger issues, but allowed Alec to stop when there was no progress. Alec refused the help and continued the internalize his anger. After the murders Alec's emotional health began to deteriorate. Eventually Alec turned his anger on himself as he threatened to commit suicide while on the phone to a friend. Because of the suicide threat Alec was committed to a hospital so he could get psychiatric help. It was during one of these visits that Alec confessed to killing the Haines family.
Mr. Kreider does an excellent job of expressing the emotions of one of a parent's worst nightmares. How would you feel if you learned that your child had taken another life. Especially if you learned that the murder was a well thought out crime and without your help, your child may get away with it. This is the dilemma faced by Tim Kreider.
A family friend once told my wife, "I'd rather be the parent of a murdered child then be the parent of a murdering child". I give Mr. Kreider very high marks for being willing to tell his story. It took immense courage to do what he did knowing that he was possibly sending his son to prison for life. A large portion of the proceeds from this book will go to a program Tim Kreider founded to help young people who have issues similar to those that lead Alec to kill three people.
This is a very well written book that is worth the read. But it only tells part of the story and doesn't talk about the higher pain. I know this is not a book about Maggie and what she went through with the loss of her family but it is an important part of the story. One thing that isn't told in this book and which was exposed by the press was that Alec showed little to no remorse for the murder of his friend. In November of 2007 my son Daniel was murdered by his 17 friend. The pain is beyond anything I have ever endured and 7 years later it hasn't gotten any better. I thought this book may be an attempt to defend Alec's action due to his emotional problems. In my case the family of my son's killer have continued to vilify my son and chant the innocence of their sweet boy. My son's murder was one of the most violent ever committed in Michigan, so I did not want to read a book where the father defended his son's actions. This is not the case.
As the father of a murdered child I cannot recommend this book enough. It shows that a father can go through the worst sort of pain and still make the most difficult decision he will ever have to make. I highly commend the choice that Mr. Kreider decided to make.
On May 12, 2007 Maggie Haines experienced the worst tragedy any person can experience. Having come home a few days early from college she was at home in the early hours of the morning and listened as both her parents and 16 year old brother her brutally stabbed to death. Maggie escaped because the killer, thinking she was away at college, did not know she was home. She fled the house before the killer discovered her and vented his rage on another victim.
"Refuse to Drown" is the true story of a horrendous murder that took place in Manheim Township, Pa in May of 2007. The author, Tim Kreider, is the father of then 16 year old Alec Kreider. Alec is the young man that would eventually charged with such a horrendous crime.
When I received my book I really didn't know what the book was about. Had I known it was written by the Father of a convicted killer I very well may not have entered the contest: I'll explain in a moment. I figured the book would be a self indulgent story about how his son was simply a misunderstood young man with an undeveloped brain. If I had chosen not to read this book I would have been the loser.
"Refuse to Drown" is Mr. Kreider's true story of how he, as a Father, made the hard decision to turn his son into the police for murdering three people. He exposes the anger that lead young Alec to take three lives. After the murder of Alec's best friend Kevin, Tim worried about the emotional condition of his son. How would Alec react emotionally to the loss of his friend. Alec Kreider was an intelligent straight A student even taking advanced placement courses in school. But Alec was known to have issues with anger and dark thoughts. The Kreider family was concerned enough to try to get Alec therapy for his anger issues, but allowed Alec to stop when there was no progress. Alec refused the help and continued the internalize his anger. After the murders Alec's emotional health began to deteriorate. Eventually Alec turned his anger on himself as he threatened to commit suicide while on the phone to a friend. Because of the suicide threat Alec was committed to a hospital so he could get psychiatric help. It was during one of these visits that Alec confessed to killing the Haines family.
Mr. Kreider does an excellent job of expressing the emotions of one of a parent's worst nightmares. How would you feel if you learned that your child had taken another life. Especially if you learned that the murder was a well thought out crime and without your help, your child may get away with it. This is the dilemma faced by Tim Kreider.
A family friend once told my wife, "I'd rather be the parent of a murdered child then be the parent of a murdering child". I give Mr. Kreider very high marks for being willing to tell his story. It took immense courage to do what he did knowing that he was possibly sending his son to prison for life. A large portion of the proceeds from this book will go to a program Tim Kreider founded to help young people who have issues similar to those that lead Alec to kill three people.
This is a very well written book that is worth the read. But it only tells part of the story and doesn't talk about the higher pain. I know this is not a book about Maggie and what she went through with the loss of her family but it is an important part of the story. One thing that isn't told in this book and which was exposed by the press was that Alec showed little to no remorse for the murder of his friend. In November of 2007 my son Daniel was murdered by his 17 friend. The pain is beyond anything I have ever endured and 7 years later it hasn't gotten any better. I thought this book may be an attempt to defend Alec's action due to his emotional problems. In my case the family of my son's killer have continued to vilify my son and chant the innocence of their sweet boy. My son's murder was one of the most violent ever committed in Michigan, so I did not want to read a book where the father defended his son's actions. This is not the case.
As the father of a murdered child I cannot recommend this book enough. It shows that a father can go through the worst sort of pain and still make the most difficult decision he will ever have to make. I highly commend the choice that Mr. Kreider decided to make.
January 25, 2014
In the summer of 2007, a quiet community in Lancaster County, PA was shocked by a triple murder: three family members brutally stabbed in their home. Their college-age daughter survived because she was home earlier than expected.
I learned about these events through a book, written by a man with connections to the crime. (Disclaimer: I received a free copy of the book from the authors in exchange for my review.)
Refuse to Drown by Tim Kreider and Shawn Smucker is the story of a father who lost his son. Because his son committed the crime.
Kreider's son Alec was 16 when the murders occurred. He was best friends with the teenage son who died. For a month the murders went unsolved, and the Kreider family worried about the effect on Alec's emotional and mental health. Then one day, the unthinkable happened: Alec confessed to the crime while receiving psychological treatment at a nearby mental health center.
Refuse to Drown is Kreider's account of the month before the confession and the year that followed. In it he recounts his inner turmoil of making the unimaginable decision to turn in his son to the police, knowing that it would change all of their lives forever.
While much attention and sympathy is directed toward the families of crime victims--and rightly so--much less is given to the families of those who commit the crimes. Refuse to Drown is a powerful reminder that suffering occurs on both sides of a tragedy.
Kreider is courageous to go public with his story, even after six years have passed, because he opens himself to criticism for sharing it all. I've already seen comments to that effect. I don't know the man, but his words on the pages don't sound like a man out to hurt or cause pain. He's deeply troubled by his son's actions and has wrestled with his own actions as a father, wondering if he could have somehow prevented the act.
He speaks, and writes, his story today in an effort to draw other troubled teens out of their darkness and into the light. Kreider founded a non-profit aimed at helping people discover that they are not alone in their trials and struggles.
Refuse to Drown isn't an easy book to read. The first few chapters read like a crime drama, full of suspense as you realize the killer is living in the house with the Kreider family but isn't showing any clues that he did it. Then, when Alec confesses, the agony of his father's decision is heartbreakingly honest. He doesn't deny the temptation to protect his child and cover up the truth. Nor does he sugarcoat the emotional, physical and spiritual toll the tragedy took on his family.
He makes some poignant observations. Here are a few that stick with me.
Before the confession, these words:
"I am your father," I told Alec many times in those days. "I love you and will always be here for you, no matter what."
No matter what.
Have you ever thought about those words, what they actually mean? Sometimes we say those words and have no idea what the "what" might someday be. (42)
Later, after his son's sentencing, Kreider describes what it's like to visit him in prison. And he says this:
Sometimes I think, When I'm an old man, coming here to visit Alec, this is going to be a long walk. ... I wonder who will visit Alec when his mother and I are gone. (185)
And a closing thought:
We shouldn't be so hard on ourselves when we experience difficult moments, even if those moments turn into months or years. But what do we do with those moments? Do we give up and let them win, or do we refuse to drown and fight back to the surface?
Tim Kreider is a man who knows difficult moments and has come through them. His story is encouraging and full of hope for those in the midst of troubling times.
I learned about these events through a book, written by a man with connections to the crime. (Disclaimer: I received a free copy of the book from the authors in exchange for my review.)
Refuse to Drown by Tim Kreider and Shawn Smucker is the story of a father who lost his son. Because his son committed the crime.
Kreider's son Alec was 16 when the murders occurred. He was best friends with the teenage son who died. For a month the murders went unsolved, and the Kreider family worried about the effect on Alec's emotional and mental health. Then one day, the unthinkable happened: Alec confessed to the crime while receiving psychological treatment at a nearby mental health center.
Refuse to Drown is Kreider's account of the month before the confession and the year that followed. In it he recounts his inner turmoil of making the unimaginable decision to turn in his son to the police, knowing that it would change all of their lives forever.
While much attention and sympathy is directed toward the families of crime victims--and rightly so--much less is given to the families of those who commit the crimes. Refuse to Drown is a powerful reminder that suffering occurs on both sides of a tragedy.
Kreider is courageous to go public with his story, even after six years have passed, because he opens himself to criticism for sharing it all. I've already seen comments to that effect. I don't know the man, but his words on the pages don't sound like a man out to hurt or cause pain. He's deeply troubled by his son's actions and has wrestled with his own actions as a father, wondering if he could have somehow prevented the act.
He speaks, and writes, his story today in an effort to draw other troubled teens out of their darkness and into the light. Kreider founded a non-profit aimed at helping people discover that they are not alone in their trials and struggles.
Refuse to Drown isn't an easy book to read. The first few chapters read like a crime drama, full of suspense as you realize the killer is living in the house with the Kreider family but isn't showing any clues that he did it. Then, when Alec confesses, the agony of his father's decision is heartbreakingly honest. He doesn't deny the temptation to protect his child and cover up the truth. Nor does he sugarcoat the emotional, physical and spiritual toll the tragedy took on his family.
He makes some poignant observations. Here are a few that stick with me.
Before the confession, these words:
"I am your father," I told Alec many times in those days. "I love you and will always be here for you, no matter what."
No matter what.
Have you ever thought about those words, what they actually mean? Sometimes we say those words and have no idea what the "what" might someday be. (42)
Later, after his son's sentencing, Kreider describes what it's like to visit him in prison. And he says this:
Sometimes I think, When I'm an old man, coming here to visit Alec, this is going to be a long walk. ... I wonder who will visit Alec when his mother and I are gone. (185)
And a closing thought:
We shouldn't be so hard on ourselves when we experience difficult moments, even if those moments turn into months or years. But what do we do with those moments? Do we give up and let them win, or do we refuse to drown and fight back to the surface?
Tim Kreider is a man who knows difficult moments and has come through them. His story is encouraging and full of hope for those in the midst of troubling times.
January 21, 2014
The Friday night before Mother’s Day in 2007, someone entered a home and murdered a mom, dad, and high school son. Their college-age daughter fled to the safety of a neighbor’s home.
This was headline news in our community for weeks, not only because of the brutality of the crime, but because the all the leads the police received were coming up short. Somewhere in our small city, the killer was free.
It was that day almost seven years ago that I began leaving my porch light on all night to deter potential criminals. The crime was so senseless – no theft, no forced entry – that there was no reason to believe it couldn’t happen to my family next.
On Father’s Day a month later, my family was set to depart on a trip with our youth group. We were dressed in matching t-shirts and took a few pictures in our front yard. I grabbed a cup of coffee and went back outside to read the newspaper in the warmth of a beautiful summer morning.
When I read the headline, I was overcome with nausea but also relief. A suspect in the triple homicide had been found. He was a teenager, a close friend of the teen who was killed. He confessed the crime to his father, who then had to quickly absorb the information and make the decision to turn his troubled son over to the police.
As I mom, I can’t comprehend the pain of the killer’s family. Why did this happen? What went wrong? Could a family friend ever murder me? Could one of my children ever do such a thing? Would I still love that child?
When I heard the father Tim Kreider wrote his account of those days, I knew I had to get my hands on a copy of Refuse to Drown.
Tim Kreider graciously and steadily articulates his perspective about his son and the crime that changed the course of so many lives. He writes the details with acute awareness, but doesn’t neglect sharing his raw emotions.
His vulnerability should be commended. He lets us see his pain, from lying in the fetal position on his kitchen floor to being literally unable to move from his bed. But he also shares glimpses of hope through his faith and the kindness of others, which equipped him with strength necessary to get through each day.
Tim is respectful throughout the book of the victims and their family. He acknowledges that the surviving daughter’s anguish surely must be greater than his own. He also treats with respect the community, the media, the law enforcement, his ex-wife, and his children. There are so many places in this story where Tim could have ranted about how he was let down or mistreated by someone, but he doesn’t go there. He spent a good portion of time during the ordeal blaming himself, which is unfortunate, but inevitable as a parent.
Though heartsick while reading this book, I was riveted. It reads like the best of crime stories. But it’s even better because it’s an authentic view of the inside of a tragedy.
This was headline news in our community for weeks, not only because of the brutality of the crime, but because the all the leads the police received were coming up short. Somewhere in our small city, the killer was free.
It was that day almost seven years ago that I began leaving my porch light on all night to deter potential criminals. The crime was so senseless – no theft, no forced entry – that there was no reason to believe it couldn’t happen to my family next.
On Father’s Day a month later, my family was set to depart on a trip with our youth group. We were dressed in matching t-shirts and took a few pictures in our front yard. I grabbed a cup of coffee and went back outside to read the newspaper in the warmth of a beautiful summer morning.
When I read the headline, I was overcome with nausea but also relief. A suspect in the triple homicide had been found. He was a teenager, a close friend of the teen who was killed. He confessed the crime to his father, who then had to quickly absorb the information and make the decision to turn his troubled son over to the police.
As I mom, I can’t comprehend the pain of the killer’s family. Why did this happen? What went wrong? Could a family friend ever murder me? Could one of my children ever do such a thing? Would I still love that child?
When I heard the father Tim Kreider wrote his account of those days, I knew I had to get my hands on a copy of Refuse to Drown.
Tim Kreider graciously and steadily articulates his perspective about his son and the crime that changed the course of so many lives. He writes the details with acute awareness, but doesn’t neglect sharing his raw emotions.
His vulnerability should be commended. He lets us see his pain, from lying in the fetal position on his kitchen floor to being literally unable to move from his bed. But he also shares glimpses of hope through his faith and the kindness of others, which equipped him with strength necessary to get through each day.
Tim is respectful throughout the book of the victims and their family. He acknowledges that the surviving daughter’s anguish surely must be greater than his own. He also treats with respect the community, the media, the law enforcement, his ex-wife, and his children. There are so many places in this story where Tim could have ranted about how he was let down or mistreated by someone, but he doesn’t go there. He spent a good portion of time during the ordeal blaming himself, which is unfortunate, but inevitable as a parent.
Though heartsick while reading this book, I was riveted. It reads like the best of crime stories. But it’s even better because it’s an authentic view of the inside of a tragedy.
December 26, 2014
----I won this book from Goodreads.
----Quick outline: Author Tim Kreider has a 16 year old son, Alec. Alec murders his longtime neighborhood friend, Kevin, AND Kevin's parents. The book plods through EVERY thought that enters Kreider's head during the following weeks and months.
----It is difficult to review this book because I've never read one like it. A man's BOY actually KILLS his neighbors?? This isn't fiction!
----I kept focusing on the father not treating his son like the BOY that he was. He hadn't been thinking of him as JUST another angry teenager,
but had actually SUGGESTED counseling to the CHILD. Since when does a CHILD get to make those kinds of decisions? Does a CHILD get to decide whether or not to be vaccinated? Or taken to the dentist? we even force the dog into the car for a delightful trip to the vet!
----So why was this underage BOY, whose father thought needed counseling, permitted to say "No?"...
----But just because I'm criticizing the father does not mean that I am criticizing the whole book. Kreider appeared to be TRYING to deal with his and his family's life-changing tragedy.
----"Refusing to Drown" is definitely one for discussion.
----Quick outline: Author Tim Kreider has a 16 year old son, Alec. Alec murders his longtime neighborhood friend, Kevin, AND Kevin's parents. The book plods through EVERY thought that enters Kreider's head during the following weeks and months.
----It is difficult to review this book because I've never read one like it. A man's BOY actually KILLS his neighbors?? This isn't fiction!
----I kept focusing on the father not treating his son like the BOY that he was. He hadn't been thinking of him as JUST another angry teenager,
but had actually SUGGESTED counseling to the CHILD. Since when does a CHILD get to make those kinds of decisions? Does a CHILD get to decide whether or not to be vaccinated? Or taken to the dentist? we even force the dog into the car for a delightful trip to the vet!
----So why was this underage BOY, whose father thought needed counseling, permitted to say "No?"...
----But just because I'm criticizing the father does not mean that I am criticizing the whole book. Kreider appeared to be TRYING to deal with his and his family's life-changing tragedy.
----"Refusing to Drown" is definitely one for discussion.
July 12, 2017
Changed my perspective on people who commit crimes. I would recommend this courageously honest book to anyone who is curious about the impact of crime on a family and an individual.
January 6, 2015
This book reads a lot like a journal because it basically is. It's not the polished narrative one would expect from a successful author, and it shouldn't be, because Tim Kreider is just a father who made a difficult decision and has chosen to share his experience with the world. The fact that this reads like a journal makes it feel more personal.
I had some difficulty getting through this book because for most of it, it didn't really hold my interest all that much. I did find it interesting to learn about prison visitation practices as that is something I have no experience with, and hopefully will never have any experience with.
There was a lot of focus on religion in this book, and it clearly helped the author get through this very difficult time, but for me it came across sounding a little self-righteous. I don't actually think that's how it was intended to sound, but the religious skeptic in me does not easily trust personal proclamations of religious fervor.
Aside from reading like a journal rather than a polished narrative, the book is structurally sound, with very limited spelling/grammar errors (not more than what I feel is acceptable in a book this size). It is straightforward and easy to follow.
I would recommend this book to people currently going through a tough time that are maybe looking for a little hope when everything around them seems bleak. It just might help.
Copy received through the Goodreads First Reads giveaway program.
I had some difficulty getting through this book because for most of it, it didn't really hold my interest all that much. I did find it interesting to learn about prison visitation practices as that is something I have no experience with, and hopefully will never have any experience with.
There was a lot of focus on religion in this book, and it clearly helped the author get through this very difficult time, but for me it came across sounding a little self-righteous. I don't actually think that's how it was intended to sound, but the religious skeptic in me does not easily trust personal proclamations of religious fervor.
Aside from reading like a journal rather than a polished narrative, the book is structurally sound, with very limited spelling/grammar errors (not more than what I feel is acceptable in a book this size). It is straightforward and easy to follow.
I would recommend this book to people currently going through a tough time that are maybe looking for a little hope when everything around them seems bleak. It just might help.
Copy received through the Goodreads First Reads giveaway program.
January 19, 2014
This book is about how a father handles the responsibility of learning that his son committed three murders (his best friend, and his best friend's parents). I was very excited to read this memoir, and as a parent I was hoping to find empathy for another parent in such an awful situation.
The writing was good and held my attention. I read the book all in one sitting. The author's style for a non-fiction book, was exactly how I like.
However, I only gave the book three stars. I felt that too much was left out of the story. Whether it was out of respect to the victim's' family, or his son's reputation, it never "went there". He didn't share any details of his son's dark thoughts, and I felt like Tim held back. A lot.
I know this man is an honorable man, not only by the way he handled this gruesome situation, but how carefully he tells his story. He mention that he hopes this book will help someone, and that he wrote the book as a means of therapy, but without the raw details, this book probably won't sell.
I also felt like the last two chapters needed to be edited. Maybe completely edited out, or condensed into a few paragraphs.
I was given this book free, by Shawn Smucker, to be reviewed, and I wanted to really like this book. And it was well written, but the story wasn't completely there.
The writing was good and held my attention. I read the book all in one sitting. The author's style for a non-fiction book, was exactly how I like.
However, I only gave the book three stars. I felt that too much was left out of the story. Whether it was out of respect to the victim's' family, or his son's reputation, it never "went there". He didn't share any details of his son's dark thoughts, and I felt like Tim held back. A lot.
I know this man is an honorable man, not only by the way he handled this gruesome situation, but how carefully he tells his story. He mention that he hopes this book will help someone, and that he wrote the book as a means of therapy, but without the raw details, this book probably won't sell.
I also felt like the last two chapters needed to be edited. Maybe completely edited out, or condensed into a few paragraphs.
I was given this book free, by Shawn Smucker, to be reviewed, and I wanted to really like this book. And it was well written, but the story wasn't completely there.
April 10, 2015
I have received this book for free in the Goodreads Giveaway.
I must start by saying that this is a book that will stay with me for a long time. First of all, it is a true story, not just based on one, and this gives it even more depth and meaning. Secondly, the manner in which Tim Kreider chose to write it makes it more touching and poignant. Reading about what he went though before, during and after the incarceration of his teenage son was heartbreaking.
"Refuse to Drown" is the true story of a triple murder in Manheim Township, Pa in May of 2007. Tim Kreider is the father of then 16 year old Alec Kreider, the young man who would eventually be charged with killing his best friend and his parents.
When I think of a murder I usually think about the family of the people who were killed, rarely, if ever, I give a second thought yo the family of the person who committed the crime. I read this book feeling that Tim Kreider wrote it trying to help others deal with similar ordeals. His family was shook to its very core by what happened and probably even today, they are affected by it.
This book made my cry and it gave me hope at the same time.
I must start by saying that this is a book that will stay with me for a long time. First of all, it is a true story, not just based on one, and this gives it even more depth and meaning. Secondly, the manner in which Tim Kreider chose to write it makes it more touching and poignant. Reading about what he went though before, during and after the incarceration of his teenage son was heartbreaking.
"Refuse to Drown" is the true story of a triple murder in Manheim Township, Pa in May of 2007. Tim Kreider is the father of then 16 year old Alec Kreider, the young man who would eventually be charged with killing his best friend and his parents.
When I think of a murder I usually think about the family of the people who were killed, rarely, if ever, I give a second thought yo the family of the person who committed the crime. I read this book feeling that Tim Kreider wrote it trying to help others deal with similar ordeals. His family was shook to its very core by what happened and probably even today, they are affected by it.
This book made my cry and it gave me hope at the same time.
May 23, 2014
I am reading the book Refuse to Drown written by the father whose son murdered his best friend and parents of his best friend.
When the son wrote to his father from jail......the son had been reading the Bible and mentioned that he felt if he had grown up with religion, he would NOT have murdered and would have been able to deal with his "dark thoughts".......
And the father felt guilty over this, that late in life, he had come to be a Christian.....sort of a powerful message I thought.
It seems that today people raise their children to "enjoy life, have fun"....and neglect the spiritual side of life.
The above struck me as the most significant part of this book and is truly "food for thought". Yes, most of us "behave" and don't murder, but perhaps being introduced to a spiritual life at a young age MIGHT save some "at risk" people? I don't know.
This is mainly the story of the father and how he coped with this tragic event....it's HIS story.
P.S. He is supposed to come to my book club next month and I am looking forward to this.....
When the son wrote to his father from jail......the son had been reading the Bible and mentioned that he felt if he had grown up with religion, he would NOT have murdered and would have been able to deal with his "dark thoughts".......
And the father felt guilty over this, that late in life, he had come to be a Christian.....sort of a powerful message I thought.
It seems that today people raise their children to "enjoy life, have fun"....and neglect the spiritual side of life.
The above struck me as the most significant part of this book and is truly "food for thought". Yes, most of us "behave" and don't murder, but perhaps being introduced to a spiritual life at a young age MIGHT save some "at risk" people? I don't know.
This is mainly the story of the father and how he coped with this tragic event....it's HIS story.
P.S. He is supposed to come to my book club next month and I am looking forward to this.....
February 6, 2015
This book is, in a word, painful. Reading what this father had to go through and at times feeling the weight of his pain shows how well this book is written. I was forced to assess my own problems in life and got perspective into what is actually an irritation and what is truly devastating. I loved how this man came out of it and while I hope to never go through anything like what he experienced, I'm comforted by the fact that hope can be found.
With that said, I do feel there was one crucial aspect missing and that was the "Why." I think that would have been my first question to my kid and usually is whenever they do something stupid, but it was glossed over for some reason. I know there may not have been a good answer to the question, but the question needed to have been asked and since we as readers made the journey of the ups & downs of this story, it would have made the ride a bit more satisfying.
With that said, I do feel there was one crucial aspect missing and that was the "Why." I think that would have been my first question to my kid and usually is whenever they do something stupid, but it was glossed over for some reason. I know there may not have been a good answer to the question, but the question needed to have been asked and since we as readers made the journey of the ups & downs of this story, it would have made the ride a bit more satisfying.
March 2, 2014
The events that lead to the writing of this book are tragic, heart wrenching and seemingly insurmountable. The beginning of the book was interesting and caught my attention but then it became laborious to read. It's answers meandered into the simplistic.
I can imagine if your child has done something unforgivable this might be a good book to read. Knowing that other parents have overcome insurmountable things would be incredibly helpful. But the story seems to digress into the minute details that erode at the effectiveness of the story. It doesn't really address how one goes about "refusing to drown."
I can imagine if your child has done something unforgivable this might be a good book to read. Knowing that other parents have overcome insurmountable things would be incredibly helpful. But the story seems to digress into the minute details that erode at the effectiveness of the story. It doesn't really address how one goes about "refusing to drown."
February 18, 2014
This book asks a million questions, and let's readers find our own answers. Some of the a re rather startling. For instance, what is unconditional love? How far would you go for your child? What is life like for the families of the criminals? It is not an easy read but I think it's a worthy one.
A father is confronted with a choice: does he turn in his sin for a heinous crime, or does he throw the dice and let the cops find their eventual way to him?
It's been a few weeks since I finished this book, and I keep coming back to these questions. What if?
A father is confronted with a choice: does he turn in his sin for a heinous crime, or does he throw the dice and let the cops find their eventual way to him?
It's been a few weeks since I finished this book, and I keep coming back to these questions. What if?
May 19, 2014
A review for my friend, Ruth (who doesn't own a computer):
"I think that it takes moral strength and courage on Tim's part to unselfishly share his story with the rest of the world.
There are so many families that this book can encourage to come forward and heal as a family and help others, not only through dealing with the same things that Tim did, but for any family having to deal with mental illness.
Tim's relationship with his wife, Lyn also shows that when families stick together, they can get through just about anything".
"I think that it takes moral strength and courage on Tim's part to unselfishly share his story with the rest of the world.
There are so many families that this book can encourage to come forward and heal as a family and help others, not only through dealing with the same things that Tim did, but for any family having to deal with mental illness.
Tim's relationship with his wife, Lyn also shows that when families stick together, they can get through just about anything".
February 10, 2014
A very well written and profound book. You definitely feel the pain and sadness that was experienced, as well as the hope, faith and forgiveness that Tim was finally able to experience. This book will touch your heart and soul. It is not one you will want to put down. The authors hoped that the book would be able to reach and help someone else in need. I believe it will-and will be an inspiration to everyone who reads it.
January 3, 2015
Excellent read
Mr Kreider is truly a brave and courageous man who chooses the right path when faced with an extreme decision. I remember the Haines murders since being from Lancaster County. This book had me in tears many times. Mr Kreiders strength and resilience is inspirational.
Mr Kreider is truly a brave and courageous man who chooses the right path when faced with an extreme decision. I remember the Haines murders since being from Lancaster County. This book had me in tears many times. Mr Kreiders strength and resilience is inspirational.
October 4, 2014
This was a really good book. The author did a good job of describing the pain he, his son, family and the victims family went through. It gave an insight into mental illness and to what the parents of children who commit crimes go through.
June 21, 2014
I gave this book a 5. it was a very painful and emotional book and so well written. The anguish these families must have gone through and are still going through is beyond my understanding.
October 8, 2014
FTC disclosure: I received this book free from Goodreads hoping I would review it.
December 28, 2014
This was a goodreads win. A really tough decision made by a father. It was easy to read - small chapters. As a parent was tough to read in parts. This is one I'll share with friends.
January 9, 2015
Intensely powerful and harrowing story of a young man's fateful choice and how his dad came to grips with it, finding forgiveness and healing.
March 15, 2023
This book was okay. Someone gave it to me and I read it when the power was out. I don't normally read these types of stories because I don't have the stomach for them. But it was decent. It told the story. The writing wasn't great though. There was too much redundancy, like endless questions "how will I handle this? What will I do now? What should my next step be? How can I face this?" Those aren't exact quotes from the book, but just to give you the general idea. Just a lot of the jumbled internal thoughts and the author asking himself questions over and over again that I thought could have been written more cohesively with the help of an editor to make the book flow better.
Having said that it was okay. It told the side of the story of these unfortunate parents who had the horror of discovering that their son, at 16 years old, had committed a vicious triple murder for no reason and never showed any remorse. However, I don't understand why, if, all the signs were there that he was seriously disturbed, that they didn't make him go to counseling or force him to give up video games that hey thought were making his problems worse? It just had an eerie feeling to it that the father saw all this coming because he even said that he suspected when he heard about the murders that maybe his son did it. Whaaaat?
To me, that means you knew there was something seriously wrong with your son, and I'm certainly in no way shape or form trying to put guilt on these parents or somehow blame them because their son was a sociopath– which he was– because I do not believe in any way that they were responsible for how he turned out, but if I was the father, I also don't think I would mention over and over again in so many words that I almost saw it coming!!
I even read in a news story–but I cannot attest to whether or not it was true–that the father said "Alec will either win the Nobel prize or be a mass murderer." After I read the book I'm thinking that maybe he actually did say that at some point.
If you think your child might be capable of murder, wouldn't you have been doing something more to force him to get help?
Anyway, I'm afraid I'm sounding judgmental here so I will stop on that and go on to my next issue with the book: this bizarre section where the author put in a copy of something his son had written in prison.
It was essentially the murderer's perspective on how to have a happy life. (Well, I didn't say "Bizarre" lightly. He wrote things like, you need to have a hobby you really enjoy, you need to enjoy your work not just be doing it out of duty, you need something to look forward to etc. etc. It was almost like this insane little section of "self-help tips from a triple murderer."
I'm not trying to be nasty, but it was absolutely crazy that NOTHING in that narrative that the boy wrote said anything about regretting the fact that he slaughtered three people who had only ever been kind to him. I think I would have just left that part out.
I know it was the father apparently trying to showcase that "oh look, he has a normal side too," but the thing is, there was nothing normal about this teenager. He was a sociopath. A serial killer who fortunately was caught first the time or I'm quite sure would've been a career murder.
If you could commit that kind of a crime at 16 and never once say you regret it or that you're sorry, well… That's a serial killer off and running toward a career. It just felt sometimes like the father was portraying it as a troubled kid who made a bad choice one day. No. This person was at the very least psychotic and at worst another green river killer who got caught the first time.
It's hard to feel sympathy and try to see the "other side" of this individual. Again, maybe I'm being judgmental, but I'm picturing his best friend waking up to being stabbed to death and hearing his parents being stabbed to death by someone who had absolutely no reason to even be angry at that family.
Finally, and most disturbing, when he had a chance to say something in court, when the judge asked WHY DID YOU DO THIS? PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW, he just said "there's no reason." Not one shred of regret apparently. That was his chance to let the world know he was sorry and I can only think he did not do that because he wasn't sorry. I don't know, this book was just more disturbing than enlightening and I think it's a tale worth telling but maybe the author needed help to tell it. I don't think it should be portrayed as a troubled youth who just had a bad day and that's kind of the feeling I got from it.
Having said that it was okay. It told the side of the story of these unfortunate parents who had the horror of discovering that their son, at 16 years old, had committed a vicious triple murder for no reason and never showed any remorse. However, I don't understand why, if, all the signs were there that he was seriously disturbed, that they didn't make him go to counseling or force him to give up video games that hey thought were making his problems worse? It just had an eerie feeling to it that the father saw all this coming because he even said that he suspected when he heard about the murders that maybe his son did it. Whaaaat?
To me, that means you knew there was something seriously wrong with your son, and I'm certainly in no way shape or form trying to put guilt on these parents or somehow blame them because their son was a sociopath– which he was– because I do not believe in any way that they were responsible for how he turned out, but if I was the father, I also don't think I would mention over and over again in so many words that I almost saw it coming!!
I even read in a news story–but I cannot attest to whether or not it was true–that the father said "Alec will either win the Nobel prize or be a mass murderer." After I read the book I'm thinking that maybe he actually did say that at some point.
If you think your child might be capable of murder, wouldn't you have been doing something more to force him to get help?
Anyway, I'm afraid I'm sounding judgmental here so I will stop on that and go on to my next issue with the book: this bizarre section where the author put in a copy of something his son had written in prison.
It was essentially the murderer's perspective on how to have a happy life. (Well, I didn't say "Bizarre" lightly. He wrote things like, you need to have a hobby you really enjoy, you need to enjoy your work not just be doing it out of duty, you need something to look forward to etc. etc. It was almost like this insane little section of "self-help tips from a triple murderer."
I'm not trying to be nasty, but it was absolutely crazy that NOTHING in that narrative that the boy wrote said anything about regretting the fact that he slaughtered three people who had only ever been kind to him. I think I would have just left that part out.
I know it was the father apparently trying to showcase that "oh look, he has a normal side too," but the thing is, there was nothing normal about this teenager. He was a sociopath. A serial killer who fortunately was caught first the time or I'm quite sure would've been a career murder.
If you could commit that kind of a crime at 16 and never once say you regret it or that you're sorry, well… That's a serial killer off and running toward a career. It just felt sometimes like the father was portraying it as a troubled kid who made a bad choice one day. No. This person was at the very least psychotic and at worst another green river killer who got caught the first time.
It's hard to feel sympathy and try to see the "other side" of this individual. Again, maybe I'm being judgmental, but I'm picturing his best friend waking up to being stabbed to death and hearing his parents being stabbed to death by someone who had absolutely no reason to even be angry at that family.
Finally, and most disturbing, when he had a chance to say something in court, when the judge asked WHY DID YOU DO THIS? PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW, he just said "there's no reason." Not one shred of regret apparently. That was his chance to let the world know he was sorry and I can only think he did not do that because he wasn't sorry. I don't know, this book was just more disturbing than enlightening and I think it's a tale worth telling but maybe the author needed help to tell it. I don't think it should be portrayed as a troubled youth who just had a bad day and that's kind of the feeling I got from it.
February 12, 2019
This is the heartbreaking story of the father of a young man who killed his friend and his friend's parents. The father has the impossible decision to turn his son in to the authorities. This happened in the next town over from me so I am familiar with the story. I have to admit I cried almost all the way through this book thinking about the heartbreak and devastation that this father went through.
March 2, 2022
Excellent story written from a father's heart....
June 19, 2015
A different look at a teen murderer
It was easy to read and enjoyable. It didn't keep me on the edge of my seat but it held my interest. I was interested in finding out how the parent of a murderer looks at the horrible crime his child has committed and all the things that he feels, faces, and goes through.
It was easy to read and enjoyable. It didn't keep me on the edge of my seat but it held my interest. I was interested in finding out how the parent of a murderer looks at the horrible crime his child has committed and all the things that he feels, faces, and goes through.
February 16, 2014
Tim's son Alec murdered his best friend and his parents. The writing is raw and real, this is a book by a parent who isn't justifying himself or his son. Instead he's offering a unique opportunity to see from the inside what this type of horrible experience is like.
May 31, 2015
Tim's Kreider wrote this book about his experience after his son murdered his best friend and his parents. This would be incredibly difficult to go through, and writing the book may have been therapeutic for him. Interesting book, tough subject.
April 10, 2017
Tim Kreider shares the raw thoughts and emotions of a parent whose child commits an atrocity. His writing is fluid and from the heart.
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