The Answer to Bad Religion Is Not No Religion: A Guide to Good Religion for Seekers, Skeptics, and Believers

by Martin Thielen

If you think the only logical response to bad Christianity is to leave the church completely, this book is for you. In an effort to help those who've been hurt by or turned off by negative religion, Martin Thielen explains that there is an alternative to abandoning religion: good religion. Thielen uses personal stories to illustrate the dangers of religion that is judgmental, anti-intellectual, and legalistic. While addressing the growth of the new atheism movement and the "Nones" (people that have no religious affiliation), this book argues that leaving religion is not practical, not helpful, and not necessary. Thielen provides counterparts to the characteristics of bad religion, explaining that good religion is grace-filled, promotes love and forgiveness, and is inclusive and hope-filled. Perfect for individual, group, or congregational study, a Leader’s Guide and a Worship and Outreach Kit are also available to further the discussion and increase community involvement.

Genres: Religion, Christian, Theology, Nonfiction, Spirituality, Faith

178 pages, Kindle Edition

First published January 17, 2014

About the author

Martin Thielen is the author of the best-selling What’s the Least I Can Believe and Still Be a Christian? and The Answer to Bad Religion Is Not No Religion. He writes columns for Ministry Matters.com, Circuit Rider, and Net Results and is Senior Pastor of Cookeville United Methodist Church in Cookeville, Tennessee.

Before coming to Cookeville, Martin served three other Middle Tennessee churches, including First United Methodist Church of Lebanon, Tennessee. During his decade-long tenure at Lebanon, the church experienced significant revitalization and growth.

Before transferring to the United Methodist Church, Martin served as a pastor and denominational worker for the Southern Baptist Convention. He worked for four years as a national worship and preaching consultant and editor of Proclaim for the SBC. He has led more than one hundred church leadership workshops for ministers across the country. He also served as an adjunct professor of worship and preaching at a seminary.

Martin has a bachelor of arts, a master of divinity, and a doctor of ministry degree, along with a year of PhD coursework at Vanderbilt University. Writing for publication has long been an important part of Martin's ministry. He has written five books, four of them on the subject of worship and preaching, and more than one hundred articles. His doctor of ministry project was "Ministering to Ministers through Writing." You can visit Martin's preaching and worship Web site at www.GettingReadyForSunday.com.

Martin and his wife Paula are the parents of two adult children and the proud grandparents a new granddaughter.

Reviews

[Nancy Kennedy · Rating 2 out of 5]

Conservative evangelical Christianity is bad; liberal mainstream Christianity is good. That's Martin Thielen's theme in a nutshell. Good religion, the author says, is practiced by those who are United Methodist (himself), Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopal, Disciples of Christ, United Church of Christ, American and Cooperative Baptists, and the Alliance of Baptists. The rest of us apparently are fanatical miscreants.

To sketch out his thesis, Thielen relies heavily on anecdotes. He jumps from one to the next almost paragraph by paragraph. And almost every one of the stories show evangelical Christians to be stark, raving lunatics. He seems not to notice that not all evangelicals are hateful, unsavory "fundies." I found his narrow-mindedness ugly and offensive, not to mention ironic, given that he paints evangelicals as ugly, offensive and narrow minded. He transitioned from the ultra-conservative Southern Baptist tradition, but others have left that denomination without trailing hate in their wake (e.g., see Sue Monk Kidd's The Dance of the Dissident Daughter.)

The reason for two stars instead of one is that the author does make a point that I heartily agree with: Christianity does not mandate holding to an unquestioning faith. I grew up in a fundamentalist church and I found it soul-crushing in its insistence that it alone knew the proper interpretation of Scripture -- that it held all the answers, that questioning isn't allowed. The author says Christians must learn to live with ambiguity, with not knowing. The older I get, and the farther away from fundamentalism, the more I find this to be true, and to be freeing. I just wish this author didn't feel he has all the answers.

[Bob · Rating 3 out of 5]

Summary: Discusses the characteristics of “bad religion”, contending that the answer is not to reject religion altogether but to embrace “good religion”, the marks of which are discussed.

Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…

(John Lennon, “Imagine”)

John Lennon is not the only figure to imagine that the world would be better without religion. Martin Thielen considers that for many who have had bad experiences, particular as he had in conservative, judgmental contexts, the temptation is to give up altogether on “the religion thing” and maybe consider that one’s life, if not the world would be a better place where people lived in peace. Thielen makes the case that there is a third alternative –better religion, which he describes in terms of his migration to mainline Protestantism.

After describing his own journey, Thielen discusses the marks of bad religion: self-righteous judgmentalism, negativity, arrogance, intolerance, and absolutism, partisan politics and excessive nationalism, and a nominal commitment to Christ and church. This last was interesting because he takes on the fact that for many church-goers, the local Rotary or their kids soccer teams, or their travel plans take precedence to worship, giving, and service in a church, which gets marginalized.

Thielen then discusses the “no religion” alternative and contends that this would create an “always winter but never Christmas world” and that religion, and particularly the Christian faith provides meaning, transcendence, ethics and law, inspires great art and more. Religion has resulted in universities, hospitals, is the source of much charitable activity, and stood against many injustices. And I think he raises a good point. Many atheists would also support much of this, but the question is, in the absence of a religious heritage and the cultural capital this has created, would atheism create and sustain these cultural goods?

The book then concludes with a description of “good religion”: which impacts our whole lives, engages in service, provides a prophetic voice in society, builds community, is hope-filled, open-minded, forgiving, grateful and practices evangelism with integrity. The chapter on forgiveness was particularly helpful with practical steps for practicing forgiveness with safeguards about forgiveness when people are physically or emotionally dangerous to the one forgiving. There are also appendices on additional resources and how we should view the Bible–seriously but not always literally.

There was much here I thought helpful. In my work in collegiate ministry, so many of the militant atheists I’ve met came out of the bad religious experiences described in the first part of his book. How I wish for many of them to see that the alternative to their bad experiences is not no religion but something better. Thielen writes in an accessible style with a number of stories from pastoral ministry to illustrate his points. And the kind of “religion” he argues for as an alternative is certainly far more commendable and attractive.

There are two things that particularly concern me. One is the problem of the excluded middle. He assumes two poles: either conservative, narrow, judgmental, intolerant churches, or the mainline characterized by all the qualities of goodness he describes. It seems that he leaves Catholics and Orthodox believers out all together, nor does he recognize the many more progressive evangelical churches that still are scripture focused, Christ-centered, and reflect the same qualities that he contends for in “good” religion.

My second concern is the use of the term religion and the association of this with lots of good works as opposed to bad tendencies. The work of Christ was not absent from his account, particularly so in the chapter on the hope of the resurrection, but it wasn’t clear to me that this was central. While I can concede there are certain legitimate uses of the term “religion” in connection with Christian faith, I have always appreciated that idea that Christianity is about redemptive relationships, both with God through Christ, and with others, not “religion”, and the good works are works of love that flow from being the beloved redeemed children of God.

The value of this book lies in the argument suggested in the title that for those who have encountered bad religion, there is something better than no religion. If the book helps those who have had bad experiences with the church consider that this may not be what all Christians are like and, like the author, take the risk to see if others could be different, then the book will have accomplished its purpose. If the book helps those who sense their own brand of “religion” is unhelpful to figure out why, this would also be helpful. However, I think it would have been better if the author could see beyond recommending just his own type of church as the alternative to bad religion. Might that also be “good religion”?

______________________________

Disclosure of Material Connection: I received this book free from the publisher via Netgalley. I was not required to write a positive review. The opinions I have expressed are my own.

[Jennifer Clausen-greene · Rating 2 out of 5]

I am finding it difficult to review this book. In fact I found it difficult to read this book. I agree in part with Theilen and in part I found him as hypocritical and lacking understanding of God, the Bible and Christians in general.



Theilen gives several examples of what he believes to be “good religion” and “bad religion”. Some I have to agree with, such as all religions and Christians should treat other with love and respect instead of with hatred. We should be placing Christ first and the world second and it should show clearly to society that our life is lived for Christ by putting into practice the principles of Christ in our daily walk. Sadly, no matter what church or religion you are a part of there will be hypocrites, people filled with hate, intolerance and bigotry. We are human, we sin and we fall short time and again. It is one of the numerous reasons why we need Christ.



As a whole I did not get the impression that Theilen believes you actually can and should live your life according to the Bible completely. Our aim should be to follow after Christ by example and we get those examples in the Bible, which is literally God breathed. Not only can we take the Bible literally, but we must take the Bible literally. Even Christ and the disciples took the bible in literal context when they quoted the Old Testament. Although the author clearly states he does not believe this and finds it ridiculous that others believe that the Bible is the literal Word of God.



I feel strongly that you cannot pick and chose which bible verses you want to be literal and which ones you want to be taken as a hypothetical suggestion just so you can live your life the way you want or justify something as the author suggests you can. It’s hypocritical theology that is warped and undermines the truth and God. If you want to live a life according to the gospel then you must accept Gods Word without error and current for today’s circumstances just as it was when it was wrote. It does not change because society deems it needs to in order to fit a mold that is popular today.



Fundamentalist or conservation Christian group as they are referred to throughout this book are attacked and the author feels they are they reason behind the departure from religion simply because they do stand strongly on truth and in God’s word as literal without giving into new scientific findings and other popular mainstream church ideas just to appease the masses. I am sorry but I firmly believe that Christ knows more than anything any of our scientists can uncover, after all He created us and the world, not the scientists. You can live according to the Bible as literal and still show love and compassion to those who are sinning and go against the Word, after all we all sin and fall short of the glory of God.



As for judging others I will only say this: We are called to judge the ACTION, not the PERSON and we are to do so in LOVE not condemnation. We are to speak truth no matter the circumstances, but not our truth, GODS truth.



· “Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly.” (John 7:24)

· “Do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world? If the world is to be judged by you, are you unqualified for the lowest law courts? Do you not know that we will judge angels? Then why not everyday matters?” (1 Cor 6:2-3)

· “The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgment* by anyone.” (1 Cor 2:15)

· “The mouth of the righteous utters wisdom; his tongue speaks what is right.” (Psalm 37:30)

· “With my lips I recite all the judgments you have spoken.” (Psalm 119:13)

· “Open your mouth, judge justly, defend the needy and the poor!” (Proverbs 31:9)

· “We urge you, brothers, admonish the idle, cheer the fainthearted, support the weak, be patient with all. See that no one returns evil for evil; rather, always seek what is good [both] for each other and for all” (1 Thess. 5:14-15).

About the Author

Martin Thielen is Senior Pastor of Cookeville United Methodist Church in Cookeville, Tennessee. He writes columns for MinistryMatters.com, Circuit Rider, and Net Results. He has written five books, including the best-selling What's the Least I Can Believe and Still Be a Christian?



Disclaimer: I received a free copy of this book from NetGalley in exchange for my honest review.

[Jolynn · Rating 2 out of 5]

The Answer to Bad Religion is Not No Religion: A Guide to Good Religion for Seekers, Skeptics, and Believers will likely find its best audience among seekers and believers. The skeptics are unlikely to be persuaded. Thielen's book is not a scholarly tome nor is it a particularly academic endeavor, but rather it reads like a pleasant conversation with a local, relatively open-minded Pastor -- an informed view of "good Christianity" liberally sprinkled with anecdotes, stories the author has heard over the years, and supporting bible verses or passages. While it may not persuade skeptics or non-believers, Thielen's short book certainly offers a refreshing perspective -- a clarion call to jettison the chronic negativity, "self-righteous judgment" of others, "arrogance, intolerance and absolutism," and partisan politics that have come to characterize some churches in America and elsewhere. Thielen goes on to talk about the ways in which "good religion" prioritizes love, service, community, hope, open minds, forgiveness and gratitude, among other things. The sign on Thielen's church says "Open hearts, open minds, and open doors," and the stories Thielen shares about his own history and ministry certainly indicate that these are his own aspirations. Thielen is hopeful that when confronted with "bad religion," people will choose -- not to turn away from religion all together, but to seek congregations that focus on the essence of Christian principles. He eschews the literal interpretation of the Bible so many insist upon, and has no trouble with evolution and women in the ministry. This book certainly seems in line with the effort to take back and reclaim Christianity from the more absolutist groups who tend to make their way into the news with such regularity and whose actions can be off-putting for their very inconsistency with the example set by the life and teachings associated with the historical Jesus.
I received this book from the publisher as part of a Goodreads giveaway.

[Robert D. Cornwall · Rating 3 out of 5]

From the author of What's the Least I Can Believe and Still Be a Christian? this book offers a word to those who are spiritual but not religious, along with those already in church wondering how they can speak to a generation that seems disaffected from the church.

Thielen is a United Methodist pastor whose formative years were spent among the Southern Baptists. He left the SBC because he found it too rigid theologically and socially. As with his earlier book, he offers what I would call a moderate Mainline Protestant presentation. Filled with stories, some of which some of us have heard before, the book is divided into three parts. The first five chapters form Part 1: The Answer to Bad Religion. In this section Thielen addresses expressions of bad religon, including self-righteousness, chronic negativity, arrogance and intolerance, partisan politics and nationalism, and nominal commitment. On the latter he decries the tendency to put things like ski trips and youth sports above church.

The second part of the book is composed of two chapters -- in which he suggests that the answer to the above isn't "no religion." In other words -- John Lennon might have gotten it wrong. Abolishing religion isn't helpful or necessary.

Finally, in the longest section of the book, comprising ten chapters, he lays out what good religion looks like. Among the characteristics are prioritization of love, engagement in service, open mindedness, practicing forgiveness and gratitude, and more.

The target audience is the general reader. Among the resources listed in the appendix is a leaders guide for a six week series. Having led a series with the earlier book, this would seem to be a good use for the book. It might raise some interesting questions and open some hearts and minds to the questions on the hearts of many.

I don't think it will convince too many folks who have written off the church, but it might open up conversation with some who are at least open to finding in the church a spiritual home.

[Andrew · Rating 5 out of 5]

It has become common these days to hear non-religious people attacking religion because of the evil that has been perpetrated in the name of religion. Religion is bad, the argument goes, and therefore the world would be a better place without religion. But this argument discounts all the good that is also done in the name of religion, and through the baby out with the bathwater, as the saying goes.

This book is an answer to those who argue that bad religion is the reason we need to get rid of all religion. It openly acknowledges the problems of bad religion, but also clearly discusses the merits of good religion and provides an argument against eliminating *all* religion because of the evils of bad religion.

The arguments here are not likely to make believers out of non-believers, nor are they likely to convince those who hold bad religious beliefs to change their ways. But to those who are disillusioned by bad religion and are looking for an alternative faith model that is positive and nurturing, this book is likely to be a breath of fresh air.

The author writes from the perspective of American Protestantism, so the book is focused on that point-of-view. But the arguments and points he presents translate easily to other faith traditions. Anyone who is feeling frustrated with bad religious views or practices, but is reluctant to give up religion should read this book. It should give them hope for finding a positive religious experience to replace the negative.

[Murray · Rating 4 out of 5]

Thielen argues that the reason the reason that people, especially youg people, are turned off by organized Christianity is that some denominations are too judgement and negative toward others. He states very well that their are denominations that attempt to be more open, inclusive and positive while supporting the major teachings of Jesus. I would recommend this book to anyone, who is struggling with organized religion.

[Becky · Rating 1 out of 5]

Quite simply his argument is: Religion is turning off people of all ages all across America. He has even been turned off by religion in his own personal life. He has concluded that much of religion is "bad," but argues that it doesn't have to be that way. That "good" religion is to be found. People can find places to suit them to worship. They just have to look in the right places.

He spends one third of the book examining "bad religion," a third of the book arguing against "no religion," and a third of the book promoting "good religion." All sections of the book focus in on stories he's sharing with readers to illustrate his points, his worldview.

One can't tell from the basic premise how he defines "bad religion" and "good religion." It is all a matter of perspective. He's writing what he knows, what he believes. It is his book, after all, and "good" and "bad" are certainly prone to subjectivity. Within a few pages, I got a good idea of where he was heading. I was disappointed, but, not surprised, not really.

I don't want to rush in and say that everything in the book is theologically wrong, or, that he is never, ever, ever right. Sometimes his conclusions contain (some) truth at least, but his reasoning--his system of working it out--is faulty. Sometimes his observations were true (mostly true) but he somehow came to the wrong conclusions.

For example, you could say he has strong, negative feelings for anyone who holds the Bible to be infallible or inerrant. He claims this is not the historic Christian position. (That this is an invention of the twentieth century.) If you hold the Bible to be a divine book, a book that is God-breathed, a book that is all true and not just mostly true or sometimes true, then he is quick to judge you.

The root of most "bad religion" in his opinion is people who take the Bible too seriously. His examples are not just pushing the extreme, but pushed to the very extreme. "Christians" who hold this view are loud, arrogant, rude, in-your-face, wear offensive t-shirts, carry offensive signs, joke about killing people who disagree with them, laugh about people burning in hell for eternity. In other words, people defined by hate, hate, bitterness, anger, and did I mention, hate. What I found disturbing is that he presents this--it seems he presents this--as the normality. "All Christians who hold the Bible to be infallible and God-breathed" are like this.

It must be impossible, according to him, to hold that a) all people should be treated with kindness, respect, dignity regardless of what they may or may not believe, or what they may or may not think about any given issue (for example politics, abortion, immigration, essentially any "hot" or "current" topic, etc.) AND b) hold the Bible to be true, to be infallible, the very Word of God. His assertion that it is only those that free themselves from the "literalness" of the Bible that are free to live lives of love and keep the peace with their neighbors is disturbing.

The only Christians who are loving, compassionate, given to service, joyful, thankful, humble, fun-to-be-around ARE those who have rejected certain claims about the Bible, and have a better "informed" faith that is more open-minded, inclusive, and tolerant. Those willing to embrace ambiguity and mystery and reject certainty. (Now for the record, there are hundreds--if not thousands--of mysteries that we will never know this side of eternity. And I am not claiming that anyone can fully, absolutely, completely grasp or understand the heart-and-mind of God as He really is. But, for example, to deny there are certainties in the Bible is pushing it too far. God has revealed who He is. He has given us a book--the Bible--and given us His Spirit, the Holy Spirit. So we can know some things without doubt.) Also the author believes that the Bible is full of contradictions, contradictions that cannot be explained or reconciled.

Now, to clarify, he is not denying that the Bible is important, or denying that the Bible is a significant, potentially life-changing book. He affirms its inspired-ness. But I got the sense, I could be wrong, that the way he uses the word "inspired" does not mean God-breathed, God-authored. But instead means, "I was inspired to write this poem by my walk in the woods." "I was inspired to write this song for the most beautiful woman in the world, my wife." In other words, perhaps more like how a movie is "inspired" by "true events."

For example, I believe his argument was that the human authors were trying their best--to the best of their limited ability--to write true things of God, to write what they understood at that time, in that place, to be true of the God they worshiped. But not being God, they sometimes got things wrong. Of course, they sometimes got things right. It was up to future generations to "correct" misconceptions and "fix" the faith so that it better reflected what they themselves thought was true about God. And so it is to this day. "The God I worship would not…."

His way of understanding or comprehending what is meant by a "literal view of the Bible" is a bit frightening. I don't think he did his opponents justice in representing what they actually believe. Or perhaps there are a dozen ways one could theoretically take the Bible literally--and he assumes that the weakest, most ridiculous one is the only one. There are probably hundreds of books on how to read the Bible that would clarify the subject. He misunderstands quite a few things that are basic to reading and interpreting the Bible.

Some core (essential) doctrines he appears to sincerely, legitimately believe and hold closely and respectfully. For example, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the hope of our future resurrection. I say appear not to be sarcastic--I'm not trying to be--but because he probably clarifies and explains his beliefs a lot better in a previous book that I've not read.

If there is a section of this one that comes closest to the truth--something I view as absolute, and something he would view as relative, I'm sure--it is his section on "good religion." He makes a few good points now and then. One chapter that I agreed with most of the time was on the dangers of nominal commitment to Christ and the church.

[Brook Mcbride · Rating 5 out of 5]

As a United Methodist Pastor I love this book

This book is an excellent defense of the mainline church I love and serve. We have too much bad religion in this world, and need a strong advocate for the good religion in many of our mainline churches. Well done!

[Howard Boswell · Rating 4 out of 5]

I read Thielen’s earlier book, What’s the Least I Can Believe and Still be a Christian. The Answer to Bad Religion is not No Religion: A Guide to Good Religion for Seekers, Skeptics, and Believers continues in a similar vein, but his emphasis on practice is helpful.

[Mark · Rating 4 out of 5]

If you are tired of a rigid, black-and-white religious environment, this book might be for you.

Martin Thielen draws upon his own experiences in his book The Answer to Bad Religion Is Not No Religion: A Guide to Good Religion for Seekers, Skeptics, and Believers. His is a journey that begins when his denomination makes a shift toward fundamentalism. He feels he does not belong, but stays for some time because the costs of leaving seem too high. It is hard to leave a family that has nurtured you and helped you along in your spiritual growth. But eventually he is forced to face that the costs of staying are too high. And thus he leaves to a more progressive denomination - in his case, the United Methodists.

The book is divided into three parts. The first part describes what Martin sees as characterizing bad religion. These include judgmentalism and condemnation, a spirit of negativity, arrogance, absolutism, and intolerance. At the end of this first part he lists other characteristics but does not discuss them in detail.

The second part discusses why the decision of some who have exited toxic religion into "no religion" is not the right answer. He discusses how religion, in spite of its many imperfections, has been and continues to be a force for and a motivation for good in society. He discusses how human beings seemed to be wired to need religion.

The third part discusses characteristics that Martin believes are exhibited in good religion. These include prioritization of love, engagement in service, community building, forgiveness, and integrity. At the end of this part, in similarity to the first part, a list of additional good characteristic are given.

In the Conclusion chapter Martin recommends that those who want a good religion to try some of the mainline and moderate Christian churches. He specifically recommends trying out United Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopal, Disciples of Christ, UCC, American Baptist, Cooperative Baptist, and Alliance of Baptists churches.

There two appendices. The first lists additional reading and study materials. The second is a discussion of non-literal biblical hermeneutics.

I see a fairly narrow audience for this book. Those who are happy in conservative and fundamentalist churches and accept this way of biblical interpretations will be rather unhappy with this book. Those who are happy with their abandonment of or antipathy to any religion will likely not be swayed by this book. To those who are already in moderate, mainline churches will feel like this book is preaching to the choir.

That leaves those who have been disillusioned by their conservative and fundamentalist churches, and those who are currently on their way to abandoning religion but haven't quite got there yet. To these groups, this book is a call to take a pause and take a little more time exploring religion that, hopefully, is different from their pasts.

This review is based on an ARC supplied by the publisher through NetGalley.

[Rachel C. · Rating 3 out of 5]

Note: Received in Goodreads First Reads giveaway

First off, I think it is important to note that I consider myself an agnostic. In other words, I truly believe that there may or may not be a god(s), and that there is evidence for both (in my opinion). That being said, that does not mean my opinion herein should be discredited, as this doesn't mean I lack in intelligence in any way (though I'm sure some people will maintain a limited view, regardless). Thus, I'm one of the referred to "seekers."

Main review:

I liked this book. It made some good underlying points about religion in American society, but I think it tried to push Christianity a bit too much for my taste.

Extended Review:

Now that my religious affiliation, as it were, has been noted, I enjoyed the perspective on modern religion in this book. I agree with a lot of the underlying points, even if I don't necessarily agree with all of the evidence put forward as support. Religion today is more a tool than faith in American society. The number of times I've heard things like "the bible says that gay people should not marry" or heard arguments for why abortion should be outlawed based on wholly religion-centered arguments. Personally, I think we should not blame whatever faith we have for our opinions, but rather acknowledge that they are our opinions based on what we believe. (I should point out that I am a massive advocate for gay marriage and that I believe in choice in the case of abortion). The point of this little rant (I suppose you could call it), is to point out that I enjoyed the points made in this book, even if I don't necessarily agree with all of the religious aspects. One thing that Thielen pointed out that really struck me was the argument that people seem to be "hardwired to be religious." It struck me, because I disagree with the wording, mainly. We are hardwired to have faith, not to be religious. I at first disagreed a great deal with this statement. However, upon looking up the technical definition of religion, it is most definitely true that we all try to explain to ourselves how the world fits together, how it was created, and we generally need some way to explain those things around us in a way that satisfies us.

Once again, for the most part I thought this book was well written, well presented, and that it made some very good points (especially toward the beginning). I respect the author's religious view, even if I don't hold it. Christianity, for those who consider themselves christian, is indeed becoming oddly second-place to everything else. But, again, the subject that I felt was fairly well articulated in this book was the way religion is currently used in political and societal arguments. All in all, definitely an interesting read, though probably something that is a once-in-a-lifetime read for me.

[Samantha · Rating 2 out of 5]

Reviewing this book is difficult. I agree wholeheartedly with some of the things Thielen says about what it means to have "good religion" and why the world will never have no religion. I get the feeling though that this author would be surprised to hear that this form of loving, caring, and Christ-like religion can take place within a church that believes completely in the Bible.

This is where the difficulty comes in. While Thielen is talking about "bad religion" he consistently criticizes a certain type of church that has turned him off and he assumes scares away everyone else. He calls Bible-believing, conservative churches "arrogant, intolerant, and absolutist" many times as he encourages the reader not to be judgmental. I feel that this type of mud-throwing within the Christian community is in fact what confuses and discourages those who are lost and looking for the truth.

The truth is something that the author does not seem to feel that one can find. Though he uses scripture to support the characteristics of a good church or good Christian, he also says that it is ridiculous to take the Bible as God's literal Word. This pick-and-choose theology is another hypocrisy that I feel turns people away from the church. Believe this because God said it, but don't believe this part because surely He didn't mean it. Basing my faith on what this author, some other pastor, or I myself decide is true would not give me much comfort. I prefer to take God's word for it.

Thielen is 100% correct when he says that good religion treats others (all others) with love, not hatred. Good religion gives hope and comfort. If we practice good religion, we support each other in times of need and weakness. Good religion is practiced in a community where God is put first and other things of this world are second. It just takes the wind out of his sails when the author basis his argument on God's Word, but then proposes that you do not have to believe that it really is God's Word.

If you are looking for a well-written, convincing commentary on living a satisfying and God-pleasing faith, I would suggest The Christian Atheist: Believing in God but Living As If He Doesn't Exist by Craig Groeschel.

[April (The Steadfast Reader) · Rating 3 out of 5]

Originally posted here: http://www.thesteadfastreader.com/201...

Depending on how long you've been hanging around you know that I'm an atheist, but I don't consider myself an anti-theist. I read a lot of Galley titles intended for Christians and I try to be fair in reviewing them. I believe that religion has the power to do a lot of good, when used correctly. I'm a pretty 'live and let live' kind of girl, so as long as you're keeping within the First Amendment of the United States, not blowing people up, and generally not hurting others me, you, and your religion will probably get along. Let's get on with the review shall we?

Let's start with the good. This book could almost be described as liberal. It's pro-science, anti-judgmental, and entreats Christians to keep religion out of politics and keep nationalism out of religion. That in and of itself makes it a breath of fresh air.

"The opposite of faith is not Doubt but Certainty."

YES! (Do you see how excited I am?) I love and respect my religious friends that have beaten up and battered their religion and still come out on the other side faithful. But I don't want you to get the wrong idea about this book. While the author encourages inclusiveness and welcoming into the church he does have some non-negotiable stances. The two big ones are what you would expect, the divinity and resurrection of Christ. Cool, I can respect that.

This book will be great for left-leaning Christians who feel like their religion has been hijacked by the American right-wing nutjobs wackos political party. The message is love, love, love. All you need is love. [insert more Beatles snippets here, dear Readers]

The bad. I'm almost reduced to nitpicking but there are some passages that I would be remiss if I didn't mention. This book will be unconvincing for atheists and probably for most agnostics as well, it really is not geared towards those people no matter what the title says.

This book continues to perpetrate the myth that one must have religion to have a full and meaningful life. As an atheist I must disagree. I see wonder in the universe, my heart fills with love for my friends and family, my life has meaning and not believing in a divine power does not negate that meaning.

The author also claims that charity would be greatly diminished in a world without religion. Again, I must disagree and such statements are harmful towards creating a more harmonious world.

[Dana · Rating 3 out of 5]

I think the title of this book is a misnomer. It should be "If you were turned off by fundamental Christianity, try mainstream Christianity instead." The author does not talk about all religions - and there is bad religion and good religion in all religions - not just Christianity - instead, the author only explains that many mainline, mainstream Christian groups are "better" in his opinion than fundamental, conservative Christianity. I think that many of the concepts that the author considers to be indicative of "good religion" are indeed, good things, but I don't think that they can only be found in Christianity. I also agree that the things that the author deems "bad religion" - like rejecting scientific facts and being gender oppressive and exclusive, legalistic, manipulative etc... are indeed bad things to have in a religion. However, those things are not found merely in fundamental Christianity. They can be found in fundamental Islam and some highly Orthodox or Hassidic Jewish groups and probably in other religions as well. The author quotes Mark 12:30 as the "Great Commandment" but fails to reveal that it is merely a quote of Deuteronomy 6:5. Many of the beliefs and attitudes and actions that the author tells us are so wonderful about the Christian religion are actually Jewish. The author even includes some Jewish stories about how to behave and states how like Christianity they are, but, he never says that there is anything good about the Jewish religion. His only "religion" that he considers to be "good religion" is what he calls mainline/mainstream Christianity and he suggests United Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopal, Disciples of Christ, United Church of Christ and American Baptist. I guess that all other Christian groups and all other religions that are not Christian, must fall into his "bad religion" category even if they don't hold the "bad religion" viewpoints that he shares. So, I think that this book probably will resonate with people who have been in "bad" Christian religion and are unhappy with it and it may encourage them to visit some of the mainstream churches that the author suggests. It also may resonate with people who meet with those mainstream churches both to pat themselves on the back and to help them to focus on having more "good" things in their church and eliminating any "bad" things they may have. I received this book free to review from Netgalley.

[Rick · Rating 3 out of 5]

I have some problems with this book. But if I were to focus on those issues, Martin Thielen would probably say that is part of the bad religion that leads many to no religion. The Answer to Bad Religion is not No Religion is a great premise.

Martin argues that too often people opt for no religion based on the bad examples of Christians practicing their religion poorly. Rather, he argues, and I agree with him on this point, that the answer is good religion. If Christianity is true, then striving to live by its principles is a good endeavor. Being imperfect people, we will fall short of the perfect ideals of a holy God. Of course, logic tells us that just because sinners (of which I am one) do not live out the truth perfectly does not mean we should abandon the truth.

What remains would be living a lie. Not a great idea. On this, Martin nails it. What he does is to give examples of bad religion. He hits several of the usual suspects, but doesn't beat a dead horse. Then he segues to point out that choosing no religion is neither helpful nor necessary.

Then Martin goes into great detail about what good religion should look like. This is what I really liked about this book. Martin spells out a great vision of what the Church should be...and can be. He speaks with great hope about the future of the Church, offering many examples of churches and people getting it right.

If there was anything I did not like, it was the general impression that I got that disagreement was discouraged. Martin labeled himself as moderately progressive, letting me know in a general way some of the things we might disagree on. Having read this entire book, I would quickly add that I think we would agree on the essentials, meaning we would get along just fine in the same church. But there were issues, which I'll leave unstated here, that I believe we would disagree on that deserve to be discussed. Because truth can be sought after and because truth will dictate our actions, the living out of that truth would have big implications on how we each would live.

Our differences aside, Martin has written some good thoughts out on a great idea which deserves to be considered by all, those inside the church and those who have rejected her. I received this book for free from my good friends at Westminster John Knox Press. They didn't tell me what to say. They just asked that I say something. If you want to check it out, you can do so here or here.

[Stefanie Kamerman · Rating 3 out of 5]

Apologetical reads are fascinating to me and this book was no exception. This book is divided into three parts. Part One goes into detail on what “Bad Religion” looks like today. Part Two makes the case for why religion is the answer and makes the case for religion. And at last, Part Three explains what “Good Religion” looks like. While I nodded in agreement with a lot of the bullet points Thielen made in his book, I shook my head fiercely as well.

In Part One, Thielen focuses on the bad examples of religion focused on Protestant Christianity here in the United States. While I couldn’t agree more with some of the points he was making, especially as he defines what Bad Religion really does look like, I found him likened to one of his examples- Self Righteous Judgment of Others. As he accounts his encounters with a Fundamentalist Christian and why he thinks their religion could be bad, I found him to be casting judgment upon these people, self righteous almost. You know what- I could be accused the same thing about saying he is one his own examples.

Part Two is where my biggest disagreement took place, especially addressing the Bible. The issue I have comes from this statement Thielen makes: “…the Bible is also a human document with limitations, including a prescientific window”. My problem isn’t the about science, but how he downplays the power of the Word of God. Thielen mentions to his readers not to take the Bible literally, but I disagree and believe Good Religion should. The Bible is the Living Word. Jesus himself is referred as “The Word” (John 1:1). These are theological standpoints that I could go on and on about, but this review is hardly the place to do so.

Finally in Part Three, Thielen paints a beautiful picture on what Good Religion looks like- It is a Christ Centered day, everyday in every aspect of our Christian lives. Another issue I had was his lack of explaining to readers the Grace Jesus extends to us making us want to pour Grace on others. Really, another theological standpoint I could go on and on about.

From an Apologetic standpoint, he nails it down- Bad Religion is just that, Bad Religion. Bad Religion casts a cloud of doubt over if Good Religion does exist, but the awesome news is that Good Religion does indeed exist.

Disclaimer: I received a free copy of this book from John Knox Westminster in return for an honest review.

[Scarlett Sims · Rating 3 out of 5]

I think we've all encountered people who make religion look bad. However, that doesn't mean that religion itself is a bad thing. This is Thielen's main thesis, which I entirely agree with. However, there were a few issues with this book that meant it wasn't as good as it could have been.

First of all, the audience for this book isn't quite as wide as the title makes it seem. The use of the word "religion" also is a bit of a misnomer--this book is specifically about Christianity, and while Thielen's theology seems to be more liberal than mine, it still addresses the topic in terms of what the Bible says v. how people act in reality. I don't have a problem with the subject matter, I just think it might be misleading. I don't think this book is going to appeal to anyone who is atheist or anti-religion in the first place; I think the people who would gain the most from this are people who have had bad experiences with churches or just have a sort of apathetic antipathy toward Christians.

Secondly, the book just doesn't go into a lot of depth on the topics presented. The general format is: bad religion does this, good religion is like this (where the religion he talks about is Christianity). He uses a lot of personal-type anecdotes, an does give biblical references for his assertions, but he really only scratched the surface. I think there is a lot to be said on this subject, but Thielen gave more of just an overview.

One way in which the book was successful is that it didn't really say "all x are y," stereotyping people by denomination or association. Thielen described way in which both mainline and fundamentalist churches fail to live out the life to which they are called. He comes from a mainline denomination but that was relevant to very few of the points he made; he was addressing truths that are basic to all Christianity.

I was disappointed because I thought this book could be so much more. I agree with what the author is saying, but I just don't think it lived up to what it could have been. I can't think of anyone I know personally to whom I'd recommend it, but that's not to say there aren't those out there who could gain from it.

I received my copy free from NetGalley.

[Heather · Rating 3 out of 5]

There’s definitely an audience for this book, but unfortunately I am not that audience. Someone who is already a believer, goes to church, reads the Bible, and prays on a regular basis is not exactly the kind of person that this book was written for. BUT I can see the value in the book, so let me tell you who I think should read it.

Let’s face it, Christians do thing sometimes in the name of religion that are just wrong. Christians can be judgmental, even hateful, towards those who don’t share their beliefs. Christians can be exclusionary and shun people who don’t fit the mold of what is “good” and “right”. For those who feel that religion is not for them because of the Christians I just mentioned, this is a great book to read. I personally know a lot of people who have been hurt or just disgusted by what someone has called “Christianity” and have decided to turn away from God altogether. This book is for those people – to show them that just because they have witnessed bad religion, they don’t need to go to the other extreme and choose to practice no religion at all.

Instead, the author lays out a case for what he calls good religion. A Christianity that isn’t judgmental, anti-anything really, and is all about the message of Jesus – that we should love God and love others, pure and simple. And along the way, you know, follow Him, read the Bible, do good works and all of that.

I kind of went through this myself when I first started coming to church with my husband before we got married, and I was able to reconcile this “bad religion” with the fact that the religion I practiced wasn’t that way. The God I prayed to, the Jesus I believe in, isn’t hateful or all about money or anything that turns people away from church. I think that this book would be a wonderful choice for anyone still working through those questions. It sort of sums up why this kind of Christianity isn’t how it should be, and how to find the kind of good religion that most people crave.

I liked this book, and even though I wasn’t the target audience for it, I can certainly see why it would be useful and helpful for those seeking a better experience with Christianity.

[Sarah · Rating 5 out of 5]

I wish I had been able to read this book 10 years ago! As of today, I am no longer the target audience and often felt like the author was preaching to the choir (terrible pun in this situation, I know), but this book would have been very meaningful and eye-opening to me at an earlier point in my life. I think it will have a positive impact on many people who are fed up with the bad religion that is so often associated with the Christian Church due to a few small groups with good publicity, and help to open their eyes that this bad religion is not the message that Jesus taught and lived, but that there is good religion that reflects him and his ways. I liked that the book is intelligent and easy to read, and I appreciated the author's use of stories to illustrate his points. Below is a breakdown of the organization of the book, which gives a nice quick overview:


Part I: The Answer to Bad Religion

Bad religion...
* engages in self-righteous judgment of others
* expresses a chronic spirit of negativity
* breeds arrogance, intolerance, and absolutism
* participates in partisan politics and excessive nationalism
* fosters nominal commitment to Christ and the Church


Part 2: Is Not No Religion

No religion is...
* not helpful
* not necessary


Part 3: But Good Religion

Good religion...
* impacts the way we live
* prioritizes love
* engages in service
* provides a prophetic voice
* builds community
* is hope filled
* keeps and open mind
* practices forgiveness
* promotes gratitude
* practices evangelism with integrity

(3/14/15)



I was a double winner with this book! I won a physical copy through Goodreads Firstreads and an electronic copy through NetGalley. It's time for me to start reading! (3/5/14)

[Readnponder · Rating 4 out of 5]

Written by a Methodist minister this short, conversational book packs a lot of truth in easy-to-digest bites. Thielen’s thesis is that despite all the shortcomings of Christianity, the solution is NOT to embrace atheism or agnosticism. That route has its own set of problems and won’t ultimately provide what the heart longs for. Instead, he challenges us to embrace “true religion,” or what I would simple call following the teachings of Jesus.

Some of the things the author identifies with “bad religion” include partisan politics, chronic negativity, and a judgmental posture. Are unchurched people turned off by the tenets of the gospel or by the arrogance and mean-spiritedness of some Christians?

Thielen lists 10 characteristics of “good religion” such as: gratitude, service, forgiveness, and evangelism with integrity. He presents Christian community in an attractive way that makes you ask “where can I find a church like this!”

The book is divided into 3 sections: the first on “bad religion,” the second on why atheism is not the answer, and the concluding section on “good religion.” While I felt the title was a bit clumsy, it does sum up the book in a nutshell. At under 200 pages, even the busiest person can find time to fit this in, plus it goes real fast. I was amazed at the amount of content Thielen packs into a small space. He uses memorable illustrations and has lots of quotable quips.

I also found him even-handed in his treatment of both the conservative and liberal ends of the theological spectrum. When pointing out practices and/or beliefs he cannot endorse, he does so in a respectful manner. As he warns Christians about the dangers of being overly critical, I was glad to see that he didn’t name-call. In many ways, this was a refreshing book to read.

[Chuck Hayden · Rating 5 out of 5]

very insightful

Excellent read…gets you thinking. Not all religion is good and not all is bad. I enjoyed reading this book and learning.

[Kevin · Rating 3 out of 5]

This book, all in all, was a disappointment for me. As an agnostic atheist (basically allowing for a chance that there is an all-powerful being, though no more of a chance than Santa Claus existing), I was looking for an intellectual argument as to why someone like me should not write-off the idea of religion altogether. Instead, the argument seemed to be aimed at people who never really doubt the existence of a god, but are simply having a hard time choosing which building to attend weekly services in. There was no attempt made to convince a nonbeliever to open their minds, with some declarations actually bordering the act of insulting us (such as the author's idea that we owe the existence of major charities to religion alone, rather than considering the idea that, in their absence, other secular charities would appear and have appeared).

The author cites example after example and story after story to make his points, but I can only assume he meant for them to be taken as parables, because he never once makes any sort of citation toward their sources. This was another aspect that disappointed me, because when discussing hy we should take the existence of a god "on faith," the author is in his own way asking us to take him "on faith" -- and that's just not going to happen.

Long story short, I was hoping for a reasoned argument and debate, but received just another sermon directed toward, if not true believers, then pretty-much-for-the-most-part believers.

The writing style was light and conversational, so it wasn't a slog to get through, so the book has that going for it.

[Leah · Rating 5 out of 5]

I'd strongly suggest you get a few dozen copies of this book for your church library, to stack in the narthex for the taking, for the pastor to hand out to investigators and other questioning types. For a book of this type, United Methodist pastor Martin Thielen's "The Answer to Bad Religion is not No Religion" hardly could be better--or even agree more with my own perspective and sentiments. He writes from a mainline (progressive, liberal) protestant perspective, so he takes scripture very seriously as a word both human and divine, but usually not literally.

The author basically articulates differences between stereotypes, misconceptions, and wrong ideas a lot of church outsiders and some insiders hold about Christianity. He acknowledges nuanced differences and emphases between theological traditions and different denominations. It's a short book, and doesn't pretend to be comprehensive, but I trust even glancing through it will open quite a few minds and hearts.

Appendix 2 explains a little more about Taking the Bible Seriously But Not Always Literally. Chapter 7 includes several explanations of theodicy, or why an all-powerful God might allow sin, death, evil, and brokenness in the world created good. A brief "Theology of Ecology" begins on page 90 of chapter 11, "Good Religion Provides a Prophetic Voice," that may help earth lovers and tree-huggers explore the way of Jesus a little more openly than they'd previously done.

Besides several other books, Theilen has a website with the intriguing name Getting Ready For Sunday (dot com). The Answer to Bad Religion is Not No Religion is a gift to the church and to the world. Get it! Read it! Share it!

[Dani Moore · Rating 5 out of 5]

Every Minister, Pastor and Priest should read this book! It clearly and concisely addresses the problem of "Gorilla Religion" in America today. The negative, judgmental and hostile type of religion that is more interested in keeping the "wrong people" out of their churches and loudly telling them why they are surely going to Hell. The Author clearly covers what the problem is, what it is not and how to fix the problem. I found him to be a wonderful story teller with thoughtful insights and a clear vision on how to fix this issue that is destroying religion in the U.S. today. The "Nones" are people who say they identify themselves with no religion. The nones used to be only 6% of the population. Now they are 20% and growing. Why? Because Americans have been so wounded, so damaged and so repulsed by bad religion, the nones feel No Religion is better than Bad Religion!

I was so overjoyed to hear someone say what I had been thinking for the last few years, that I read it straight through in one sitting. This is a road map of how to get us back to what Christianity was meant to be.

[Lindsay Wilcox]

I received a review copy of this book from NetGalley. I abandoned it at 16%. It's not going in a direction I like, and I try to avoid negative reviews unless it's a book I really think I should comment on (such as Captivating, which I received as a gift, and Wild at Heart, its predecessor).

I wasn't sure what to expect when I started reading, but I'm overwhelmed by the negativity even in the introduction. The author points out flaws in every religion and Christian denomination *except* United Methodism, his own. I'm Catholic, and I can point out many flaws in my own church, including those that recur in me. I couldn't get past the lack of humility and the fault-finding to even get to the part about "good religion." I probably shouldn't have picked this one out. I can't tell you whether I think it's a good book or a bad one, but I can definitely tell you it's not a book for me.

[Tanna Shelley · Rating 4 out of 5]

I won this book through the first reads giveaway and I'm really glad I did. For someone who has had some negative experiences with religion I feel like I was one of the people who was starting to feel like ALL religion was negative. But after reading this book it really got me to open my mind and really think about things. Just like in life not every bad thing that happens makes everything bad. I feel like this is a book for anyone who needs a little more perspective on the good things about religion and who wants to reevaluate their previous experiences. It helps you to look at the positive things and go back into it with an open mind and an open heart! Thanks again for the book and another great read!

[Bryanna Plog · Rating 3 out of 5]

I enjoyed reading this book which lays out some of the reasons that many people in the United States are getting turned off of Christianity. Thielen uses personal examples to show how people struggle with some of the stereotypes of who Christians are and what they believe--and how most of those stereotypes are based off some of the more fundamentalist or conservation Christian groups. As a more progressive Christian myself, I appreciated his arguments and writing about the fact that Christians can believe in science and other 'progressive' ideas. I just wished Thielen's ideas were more flushed out. He jumped from topic to topic to quickly for me. 3.5 stars.

Disclaimer: I received my copy of this book through a Goodreads giveaway.

[The Book Man · Rating 4 out of 5]

Being a Christian involves far more than attending weekly worship. It also involves living a life of integrity, being a person of character, having Christian values, being compassionate, heart and life.

Good religion impacts our behavior and priorities seven days a week and shines forth in passionate faith that shares the gospel without even using words.

Christian life is to live it! When we live like Christ, when we live lives of love, grace, compassion, integrity, service, and social justice we testify that we are people of faith.

People see our lives and think,
“If this is what Christianity looks like, I’m interested.”

[Clinton Sites · Rating 3 out of 5]

While I think that Martin makes many good points defining 'bad' religion versus 'good' religion by the use of many anecdotal examples - he defines religion very narrowly - specifically only Protestant mainstream groups. He dismisses Catholicism with a one-liner about the scandals around the priests and done with both Eastern and Western rites and one of the worlds largest Christian based congregations.

Granted, he came from a Protestant background and is a Protestant Seminary graduate and preacher. Still - titling the book the way he did I expected a more balanced guide.

In the final analysis - it comes down to his brand of Christ based religion being the "Good Religion".