ادیپوس

by Seneca

به روایت آنئوس سنکا
بازخوانی تد هیوز
برگردان امین اصلانی

Genres: Plays, Classics, Drama, Theatre, Mythology, School, Ancient

176 pages

First published January 1, 60

About the author

Lucius Annaeus Seneca (often known simply as Seneca or Seneca the Younger); ca. 4 BC – 65 AD) was a Roman Stoic philosopher, statesman, and dramatist of the Silver Age of Latin literature. He was tutor and later advisor to emperor Nero, who later forced him to commit suicide for alleged complicity in the Pisonian conspiracy to have him assassinated.

Reviews

[Mahdi · Rating 4 out of 5]

اگه ادیپ سوفوکل رو خونده باشید از لحن زمخت و خشن این نمایشنامه تعجب می‌کنید

[Robert · Rating 4 out of 5]

Short and sweet.

THIS REVIEW HAS BEEN CURTAILED IN PROTEST AT GOODREADS' CENSORSHIP POLICY

See the complete review here:

http://arbieroo.booklikes.com/post/33...

[Yas · Rating 2 out of 5]

واقعا چه نیازی به روایت شما بود:/ وقتی که اوریپید و سوفوکل روایتش کردن. یجور حالت شعر داشت.

[Emma Ann]

Read (not this particular edition) for comps. Well, okay, maybe I kinda skimmed for comps. But shhhhhh they don’t have to know.

[Connor · Rating 4 out of 5]

Gotta love a bit of eyeball gorging and fetal stabbing.

[Nayra · Rating 3 out of 5]

Li na tradução da Susanna Braund pro inglês. Mil vezes mais compreensível que a tradução portuguesa da Edições 70.

De todo modo... não é nenhum Sófocles, né... mas tem seu valor

[sara · Rating 5 out of 5]

i do not know anything about greek or roman literature but i loved that final act

[Hank Lin · Rating 5 out of 5]

I have my reservations, but free verse Greek incest tragedies lend to that. Too often adaptations revel in one of two things, either the weightiness and legitimacy of the text, or its violence and vulgarity. Either is interesting enough, but like any dogma or hierarchy (connecting back to the text qualifies this as a 12 in an SAT evaluation), the ends serve only to justify the approach itself, instead of the text it means to serve. Ted Hughes does both, and I marvel at him, and am jealous and just a little bit angry. Would it be worth being Ted Hughes and having my wife kill herself if it meant I could have written this adaptation? Probably not in his mind, but unlike Ted Hughes, I for one have never done anything of consequence with my life.

[Drew · Rating 5 out of 5]

This revelatory translation by Ted Hughes conveys doom from its opening chorus right on through the shockingly graphic wounds the tragic king inflicts upon himself in the final act. From the very beginning, you know what lies ahead for Oedipus -- none of it good -- but Hughes' electric imagery illuminates the fall in a garish light that makes you unable to peel your eyes away from the pile of misfortune. In fact, the language is so visual you can imagine the script working as a radio play.

[Illiterate · Rating 5 out of 5]

Although Jocasta argues ignorance diminishes guilt, Seneca suggests punishment is still needed.

[Martina Mezzadri · Rating 3 out of 5]

"L'opportunità" di leggere questo libro è dovuta a un corso universitario, ma lo consiglio a tutti coloro che sono interessati al mito di Edipo, alla sua storia e di come il suo destino abbia influito sulle teorie psicoanalitiche tra cui il famosissimo complesso edipico sviluppato da Sigmund Freud.
Da appassionata di mitologia è stata una lettura molto interessante e piacevole.

[E Smith]

if you are familiar with sophocle's oedipus, give this one a shot. sophocles is not the end of this myth, though we tend to think of him as the standard. writing 300-400 years after sophocles, seneca creates a horrifying and very different play.

[Yooperprof · Rating 3 out of 5]

"All happy families are alike, each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." You think you got problems? 1st Century CE Roman "cover" of Sigmund Freud's greatest hit. Seneca makes Sophocles' version seem like a mid-period Woody Allen film.

[Hasan Abbasi · Rating 3 out of 5]

نمایشنامه ای از مهمترین نویسنده روم باستان . این نمایش اقتباسی از اودیپ شهریار سوفوکل میباشد . تفاوت در تکنیک رومی سنکا است . خشونت نمایش نامه افزوده شده است . گفتگو ها طولانی ترند و همسرایان نقش کمتری دارند .

[Shiraz · Rating 2 out of 5]

I mistakenly read this while eating lunch. Don't do that. It's gory.

[Ramesh Naidu · Rating 4 out of 5]

Odd how the same story can seem so different a few centuries after Sophocles and Ted Hughes brings it to the 20th century and makes it all his own

[Rosalinda · Rating 3 out of 5]

"Muitos vão ao encontro do seu destino, porque receiam o destino."

[Marko Vasić · Rating 5 out of 5]

Sve što mi je nedostajalo u Sofoklovom Caru Edipu Seneka je nadomestio. Sofisticiranost Sofoklova u pogledu gnusnih opisa poprilično mi je mlak utisak ostavila na doživljaj Edipove automutilacije kada pronađe obešenu majku. Senekin „Edip“ je u tom pogledu mnogo jeziviji, sa svim augmentacijama, ekspresionističkim nagomilavanjima i preterivanjima u pojačavanju atmosfere koja je u ključnim momentima gotovo opipljiva.

Seneki nije bilo dovoljno što je Kreont doneo odgovor iz Delfa kada će kuga koja opseda Tebu prestati. On slepom proroku Tiresiji dodeljuje da izvede ne jedan nego tri rituala žrtvovanja da bi potvrdio odgovor, u čemu će mu pomoći i ćerka Manta, takođe proročica: prvo piromantiju i kapnomantiju, zatim prinošenje levanice i na kraju hijeroskopiju. Kada nijedan od tih rituala nije dao odgovor na pitanje nego samo pokazao zlokobne znake, Tiresija vrši obred nekromantije i zazivlje sen kralja Laja, da ona kaže ko je njegov ubica, jer kada on bude prognan iz grada i kuge će nestati. Takođe, detaljno opisuje način i specifikum prinošenja žrtvi solarnim, maritimnim i htonskim božanstvima, što je meni fenomenalno jer je in situ i iz vremena u kome se to radilo svakodnevno kao religijski postament. Sofokle, naravno, ništa od ovih rituala ne pominje niti opisuje, budući da su oni karakteristika rimskog orakula.

Takođe preinačava momenat Edipove spoznaje nakon čega

Na licu tom, što gnjev ga divlji naruži,
tek bijes razbirо se. Škrgućuć jezivo,
za oč'ma posegne – a one, zvjerajuć,
u sukob poznatim pohite rukama
i od sebe krvniku svom podadu se.
On zjene prstima raskopa kukastim,
i s korijenom iščupa ih, a jabuke
izlete obadvije. Tad jame napipa
i noktima u gola zadre skrovišta,
duboko tam' gdje vid se očnji gnijezdio!

Prevod i komentari Darka Todorovića su vanserijski i zaista sam uživao i bio prijatno iznenađen što je prevodilac odabrao da ep prevede jezikom kojim su govorili Orfelin, Mušicki i Sterija, jer je taj jezik, kako kaže u predgovoru: „sasvim ozbiljan, kao i same one duboke misli i osećanja koja su u njemu našla svoj nadahnuti pesnički izraz – ali i neizbežno izveštačen i otuđen za uho današnjeg čitaoca: arhaičan, artificijelan i visokoparan u svom podignutom, hijeratičnom tonu – koji baš zato zna da izmami i poneki blagonakloni osmeh, a da time svejedno ne dovede u pitanje suštinsku ozbiljnost i pijetet čitalačakog čina.“ Upravo je visokoparan, podignut hijeratični ton mene potpuno raspametio da dva puta u razmaku od jednog dana pročitam ovaj odličan prevod.

[Céline · Rating 4 out of 5]

Un livre passionnant, mais tellement terrifiant lorsque la vérité éclate / le destin frappé.

"Rien n'échappe à la mort, elle frappe tout le monde sans distinction ni d'âge ni de sexe." (p. 53)

Créon avait déjà tout compris, page 145 : "Qui succombe à des peurs, des terreurs infondées mérite qu'elles deviennent réalité" et page 147 : "Qui se montre dur et cruel dans l'exercice du pouvoir royal est obligé de craindre ceux qui le craignent : la terreur se retourne contre celui qui l'inspire."

Et Jocaste avait prévenu Oedipe de ne pas chercher la vérité, page 171 : "Souvent, la vérité se révèle pour le malheur de celui qui la met au jour." & "Ce que l'on se donne beaucoup de mal à découvrir peut causer beaucoup de mal".

Il ne faut jamais oublier qu'il ne faut jamais remuer des souvenirs que le temps a emportés (p. 177).

Mais il est vrai que "tout suit une route déjà tracée : dès notre premier, jour le dernier est décidé."(p. 197) et que le seul responsable de ces horreurs, c'est le destin. "Nul n'est responsable de ce qu'accomplit le destin" (page 203).

Par contre, il y a des fautes intolérables dans cet ouvrage, soit les notes de pages :
- page 266/267 = il n'agit pas de la page 53, mais de la page 51 pour la note 1 et la note 2 doit être la note 1 pour la page 53.
- page 274 = concernant la page 103, la note 3 n'existe tout simplement pas, il s'agit de la note 2.
- page 276 = concernant la page 125, on a tout simplement oublié d'indiquer la note 1 dans le texte de la page 125 et il n'y a pas de numéro dans les notes de la page 276.
Inacceptable.

Bonsoir.

[CivilWar · Rating 3 out of 5]

A decent rendition of Oedipus but also not as good as Sophocles' version for its great lack of focus: not once but twice Seneca indulges in his biggest sin as a tragedian, which is the chorus, who, instead of narrating the story and serving as a sort of collective-anonymous audience insert, sings instead about fucking Dionysus's deeds. And I mean, are they relevant? In what sense? Because a few of the mythological events related to Thebes they mentioned very vaguely parallel the Oedipus family line? Oh, Jokasta fucks Oedipus but at least she's not as bad as the lady from the Bakchai since that one tears apart her own kingly son? Fuck off, that's nowhere near enough good of a parallel to have the Chorus sing for like a fifth of the whole play about the jolly, ecstatic deeds of Dionysus, considering the gloomy tone of the story, the connection is, what? the Dyonisic cult originated in Thebes? So what? It doesn't justify turning the pages into messes of footnotes due to the absolute overabuse of geographic adjectives and names in the references to the mythology, some of which are straight up fucking wrong because Seneca got his geography, that he's smugly showing off to his educated elite Roman audience, wrong. Bleh.

It is not as bad a flop as his Agamemnon, since there you still do have that issue (although it's much less worse since there it's actually relevant) but also the fact that Klytemnestra is at once the espousing the Senecaist stoic philosophy and the one to go apeshit on her children, it's still a decent rendering of the Oedipus myth, but... not as good as Sophocles', not as focused.

[Peque · Rating 3 out of 5]

Leí esta obra para la facultad. Yo ya conocía la historia de Edipo, creo que la mayoría la conocemos. Me intereso la vueltita que le da Seneca, ya que hay algunas diferencias con la obra de Sófocles.

Por si no saben, en esta obra de teatro conocemos a Edipo que se convierte en Rey de Tebas escapando de una profecía que decía que iba a asesinar a su padre. Esto es lo central de toda la trama, Edipo escapando de cometer un asesinato, que SPOILER: lo termina cometiendo igual.

Es increíble como las vueltas de la vida te terminan llevando a ese lugar del que vos escapas. Y cómo esas cosas forjan tu identidad (tema del trabajo que estoy haciendo sobre esta obra y otras dos).

Me vuelven loca las tragedias, realmente cuando las leo recuerdo porque vivo ahre, me gustan mucho y banco mucho que me las hagan leer en la facu (Latín II dale que si).

No sé que mucho más decir de la trama porque realmente si hablo spoileo. Me gusta como Edipo se va dando cuenta de muchas cosas, realmente lo mejor de la obra y el FINAL, mejor no digo nada, leeanla por su cuenta besis.

[tomasawyer · Rating 3 out of 5]

La pièce démarre un peu après la bataille. Œdipe a depuis longtemps tué son père et fait des gosses à sa propre mère. On en est rendu au moment où Œdipe remonte le fil de l'histoire pour se rendre compte que la prophétie avait vu juste et qu'il est bien devenu le monstre qu'il redoutait. Ne lui reste plus qu'à s'arracher les yeux (scène particulièrement gore) et à commettre un dernier crime. J'ai eu du mal à garder l'attention sur l'histoire, peut-être parce que je la connaissais déjà, mais aussi à cause du choeur qui a casse le rythme avec des délires assez incompréhensibles pour un non spécialiste.

C'pas la première tragédie que je lis mais cette fois, j'ai été dérangé par cette idée de prophétie, de destin inéluctable, de vie où tout est décidé par les dieux. Je suis entrain d'essayer de changer le cours de ma vie et c'est le genre de truc que j'ai pas envie d'entendre. Sinon, c'est très bien écrit. Je crois que je vais rajouter une étoile après avoir bu mon thé.

[Silvio Curtis · Rating 5 out of 5]

Grad school-related reading. In some ways this is a remake of the famous Oedipus tragedy (the Greek one by Sophocles) but it has a pretty different feel to it. Oedipus doesn't seem as active in rooting out the information that will turn out to condemn him. Instead, the mood is gloomy and spooky from the beginning, and the angry tyrant side of Oedipus comes out more strongly. There is also a good deal of reference to the older twisted history of the royal house and descriptions of the god Bacchus as an almost militaristic world conqueror. The most memorable parts were the opening description of the plague that's destroying Thebes and a truly spine-chilling description of raising the dead to interrogate Oedipus's father's ghost.

[Dmk · Rating 3 out of 5]

I gave three stars also for Sophocles' Oidupus Rex. Seneca's version does not have things I did not like on Sophocles but has it's own different disqualities.
Seneca's introduction is far better. You really see dispair of Thebes, just great.
When Oidipus comes to scene I aprecitated that dialogues with him were not annoying. One reason I dislike Sophoclean version was that numerous literary qualities were washed away by annoying elements in Oidipus' character.
But in last two or three acts you can see that Seneca is no master of dialoque and that Oidipus is about dialoque. About denial of his deeds, about misguided belief that his innonce was proven and about final realisation and reaction. All that devices of plot development that Aristotle describes and Sophocles masterfuly uses are missing in this version of play.

[Bridget · Rating 4 out of 5]

It's still the story of Oedipus who kills his father and marries his mother. However, it is interesting. I had to read and do work on this about "bloody spectacle" for my graduate work. That part is quite different from Sophocles' version - very Roman!

[Sara · Rating 2 out of 5]

This Oedipus is not near as powerful as Sophocles’. I think the drawn out descriptions of the rites an the Chorus pulled down the power of this story.

[Ryan Hood · Rating 4 out of 5]

Lacking the pace and punch of Sophokles, but with its own philosophical panache.

[Adam · Rating 5 out of 5]

This play is crazy in the best possible way.

[Jack Walsh · Rating 2 out of 5]

Gruesome, dull, short, and inferior to Sophocles.

[Nazareth Pez · Rating 4 out of 5]

Más detallado que el de Sófocles y con un final distinto.