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Born Guilty: Children of Nazi Families
Shares interviews with the children of Nazi war criminals, in which they describe their childhoods, how they learned about their parents' past, and their feelings today
192 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 1988
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Displaying 1 - 20 of 20 reviews
June 30, 2018
I didn't like this book as much as I hoped I would. I wish more biographical information was given about the people who were interviewed, and also just what their fathers had been up to during the Nazi era, though I know the book wasn't supposed to be about the Nazi crimes.
All of the people interviewed were born after the war and were the children of identified war-criminals. The children's reactions ranged from complete denial ("My father never did all those things they say he did, it's all lies") to making excuses ("It was just politics, he had to follow orders") to complete revulsion and estrangement from their parents. Interestingly, one of the interviewees was serving a prison sentence for embezzlement at the time of the interview. Another was basically a neo-Nazi.
I don't think the stories (which the author told in the first person) were as revealing and educational as they could have been. It might have been better if the author hadn't been a Jew who had lost relatives in the Holocaust; I think that colored his perception and put the interviewees on the defensive.
All of the people interviewed were born after the war and were the children of identified war-criminals. The children's reactions ranged from complete denial ("My father never did all those things they say he did, it's all lies") to making excuses ("It was just politics, he had to follow orders") to complete revulsion and estrangement from their parents. Interestingly, one of the interviewees was serving a prison sentence for embezzlement at the time of the interview. Another was basically a neo-Nazi.
I don't think the stories (which the author told in the first person) were as revealing and educational as they could have been. It might have been better if the author hadn't been a Jew who had lost relatives in the Holocaust; I think that colored his perception and put the interviewees on the defensive.
January 31, 2009
This was an absolutely amazing and eye-opening book. Basically, the author (a Jew) intereviewed many now-adult children of Nazi parents, or in one case grandparents. Each story is different, each person showing different emotions toward their parents and the events. Most of them were born after the war, and never saw their parents in a military role. I do have to admit that sometimes the author attacked some of his interviewees quite harshly, especially in one phone conversation. Then again, his grandfather was murdered in a concentration camp, so perhaps he is justified in his anger. Although, I think that many people's grandparents die in an unjust way, and ... I dunno, it's a hard subject to discuss.
This amazing quote really hit it home for me:
Of course I knew that there had been concentration amps and that 6 million Jews had been murdered. We'd been told about it in school. But I had also been told fairy tales in school, stories like Little Red Riding Hood. And we learned about the Crusades, and later, when I was older, about the French Revolution. And still later, about World War II and the gas chambers. But who, for God's sake, had ever told us that our own parents had been there?
That was the main thing - the parents never told their children how they were involved, or that they were involved. Many lied and said they'd just been front line soldiers, that they had nothing to do with the concentration camps. The children found out the hard way - from reading old newspapers, or learning about it from other historians. The parents wouldn't talk about it, even when asked.
I highly recommend this book, but apparently it can be difficult to get your hands on it. You should definitely try, though.
This amazing quote really hit it home for me:
Of course I knew that there had been concentration amps and that 6 million Jews had been murdered. We'd been told about it in school. But I had also been told fairy tales in school, stories like Little Red Riding Hood. And we learned about the Crusades, and later, when I was older, about the French Revolution. And still later, about World War II and the gas chambers. But who, for God's sake, had ever told us that our own parents had been there?
That was the main thing - the parents never told their children how they were involved, or that they were involved. Many lied and said they'd just been front line soldiers, that they had nothing to do with the concentration camps. The children found out the hard way - from reading old newspapers, or learning about it from other historians. The parents wouldn't talk about it, even when asked.
I highly recommend this book, but apparently it can be difficult to get your hands on it. You should definitely try, though.
November 28, 2018
Nie lubię audiobooków, nie jestem w stanie się do nich przekonać, nie potrafię słuchać książek, szybko się wyłączam... Ciekawe czy dałabym ****, gdybym tę książkę czytała?
March 5, 2025
WOW! Ich hab dieses Buch durch Zufall am Flohmarkt gefunden. Ich habe bis jetzt viel Literatur von Jüd:innen gelesen aber nie aus der Sicht der Nazi Kinder. Das Buch besteht aus verschiedenen Interviews und es ist alles dabei von Kinder, die ihre Eltern in Schutz nehmen bis zu jenen, die den Kontakt abgebrochen haben. Die Schuldfrage steht stets im Fokus. Eine Selbstreflexion seitens des Lesers ist notwendig, da der Autor dies nicht übernimmt. Da es sich aber um eine reine Interviewsammlung handelt finde ich das gerechtfertigt. Große Empfehlung!!! Mit der richtigen Aufarbeitung und kritischen Fragestellung auch toll für den Schulunterricht.
May 31, 2017
I read this book as an author looking for inspiration for a character who is the son of an official in an oppressive government. I'm also a history enthusiast with a special interest in WWII and the aftermath it left in Germany, Austria, Poland, etc.
Born Guilty was simultaneously different from any other WWII account I've read and much the same as all the rest. It was different in that the interviews were conducted with people who were born after the war. They're not speaking about the war, the war crimes, or the conditions during the war from first hand experience. Instead, they relate the impact the war had on their parents, their family mindset and structure, and their own perspective on recent history.
Similarly to other books, there's an underlying tone of bitterness and hurt. War and atrocity is not a once-and-done happening. The ripple effect continues long after.
There is some mild language and sexual content in this book. It's been a while since I read Parallel Journeys, but from what I do remember, you should be fine with this if you've read that.
Overall, I found this an interesting and thoughtful "quick read," and it did provide me with some inspiration for developing my character!
Born Guilty was simultaneously different from any other WWII account I've read and much the same as all the rest. It was different in that the interviews were conducted with people who were born after the war. They're not speaking about the war, the war crimes, or the conditions during the war from first hand experience. Instead, they relate the impact the war had on their parents, their family mindset and structure, and their own perspective on recent history.
Similarly to other books, there's an underlying tone of bitterness and hurt. War and atrocity is not a once-and-done happening. The ripple effect continues long after.
There is some mild language and sexual content in this book. It's been a while since I read Parallel Journeys, but from what I do remember, you should be fine with this if you've read that.
Overall, I found this an interesting and thoughtful "quick read," and it did provide me with some inspiration for developing my character!
December 19, 2017
In this thin book carried a very heavy past. First time I get to know how these next generation of Nazi officers, we usually focus on war victims, but we forgot that these people in the books are also victims, victims from the crimes that were not commit by themselves.
Some refused to talk about it, so refuse to admit they had such parents as Jews murderers. So just openly stood against their own parents, lived with guilt.
I think we need to remind ourselves about this very dark period of time, not just WWII. Same mass murders still happening in small or big scales. We need to drag ourselves our of the mud of accusing who is to blame, the point in how failed the humanity and how we lost the rationality. I look back at what happened in Taiwan, in China, in most Asian countries. Japanese government still refused Nan-kin Massacre ever happened, China refused to admitted Mao was a mass murderer; in Taiwan same, people throwing mud each year about how KMT killed innocent people, but not looking at the way to heal the wound of past should be more than that.
Facing the mistakes of past, discussing in depth to understand why the background and environment at that time caused people behaved certain ways. Burying the past without talking about it or facing the truth won't help the humanity, on the contrary, we might repeat the same mistakes if war happen again.
I am glad such a book was written and specially written by a Jewish, bravo!
.........................................................below are some paragraphs i found worth keeping for myself.
令我感触最深的一点或许是，战后的一代人从未亲眼看到他们的父母在 纳粹时代如何风光。那些身着党卫军制服、坚信希特勒和最后会取得胜利的 容光焕发的“青年英雄”，已经属于历史。他们的子女，只有在照片上和书本中 才能感受他们的辉煌。而在战争结束时和结束后，儿女记忆中的父母，却并非 如此，在大军进逼下仓惶逃窜，遭受狂轰滥炸，无家可归，求职无门，躲避盟军 警方的搜捕，锒铛入狱。在儿女们的记忆中，父母就是这样一些牺牲品，一场 输掉了的战争的牺牲品。 一位妇女的父亲是党卫军高级军官，曾在集中营身居要职，她形容父亲 时说道：“一个神经质的、战战兢兢的人，整天害怕警察会来抓他。我们四口人 挤在一间房里，父亲没有工作，又不敢在白天出门。”她问道：“那些应对千百 万人的死负责任的权力狂，难道就是这副模样吗？我绝对看不出父亲会有那 么大本事。” 这些纳粹分子的子女从来没有感受过父辈的正面形象，除非是在家庭 中。父母将自己看作受害者，儿女们年幼时，也接受了这种看法。但他们一旦 长大，多少知道了父母在战争时期充当的实际角色，自己往往又成为受害者 ——受其父母之害。我所采访的许多人就是这样看待自己的，他们认为自己 是某种心态的受害者，虽然战争输掉了，这种心态却在家庭中造就了法西斯 主义的氛围。外部环境改变了，德国和奥地利早已成为民主国家，但民族社会 主义意识形态却深深植根于那些行凶作恶者及其亲友的头脑中。因此，战后 的一代发现自己夹缠在外部的民主结构和家庭的法西斯结构之中。
"这些纳粹子女不仅不能矫正他们父母的过失，而且对他们的父母缺乏必
不可少的积极的认同。父辈的冷漠和沉闷伤害了他们，就算他们了解了过去， 也是因为付出了巨大努力。众说纷纭的“冷血症”——父母甚至不会为他们敬 爱的元首而哀痛——象征着战后家庭的气氛。子女将父母看作战争的“牺牲 品”，反映了他们的实际体验。那些大英雄、导师、超人，摇身变为小人物，将自 己视为命运的受害人，而非灾难的制造者。人们决不谈论个人的罪过和责任， 更不必说身为父母的耻辱。行凶作恶的一代以谎言、沉默和欺骗来应付他们 的儿女。在采访中，一位妇女对我说：“母亲哪怕只有一次告诉我她曾是参与 者，她犯了极大的错误，她希望我——她的女儿——从中吸取教训，我也会与 她和解，即使情况表明她当过集中营的看守。”
"请别误解我。我不是种族主义分子。我同犹太人无冤无仇，他们对我毫无 意义。我甚至一个犹太人也不认识。我刚十九岁，老是被指责在反犹罪行中也 有份儿，这太可笑了。什么意思？我们那时偷了他们还是抢了他们？我们今天 又有什么？我父亲十二岁时，他们带走了我爷爷，处决了他。剩下我奶奶和几 个孩子，两手空空，名誉扫地。老人家多少年来“为了祖国出生入死”，得到的奖 赏就是脖子上的一根绞索。我父亲可能有点儿窝囊，可我不怪他，我能理解他 为什么转向宗教。 你知道，有时我甚至不在乎当个穷苦的小犹太人。至少是今天，当然不是 在那时。而现在呢？人人都会同情你，你永远是受害者。人们因为内疚会拼命 塞钱给你，所有的大门对你都是敞开的。赔偿？别吓着我。谁又管我们呢？我 们一家四口，住在一所破公寓里，三间屋子，一星期吃一次肉，没有闲钱看电影 或享受任何其他娱乐。他们得到多少，我就失去多少。"
"问题在于所有这些与我父亲的生活又有什么关系。他从来没有触犯过法 律。相反，他就是诚实的化身。不管他面对怎样的上司、怎样的制度，他都堪称 模范公民。是我的母亲，在父亲死去一年后，告诉我他其实糟糕透了，他是屠 夫和刽子手的帮凶，行刑者手中的绞索，就是他送上去的，事先还试过了绞索 是否够结实——物资部门的首长，主要负责技术问题，并不考虑人。今天，我 难得有了权利，可以决定谁更让我鄙视——父亲还是母亲。没有过去，生活会 有多么可爱，有时我真希望在我还很小的时候，他们已经不在人世了。"
"。一个父亲，像 管理军队一样管理银行，一个永远有用而宝贵的人，可惜在必要时，没有哪怕 一点点情感和良心。不错，他曾经带我玩耍，给我读书。我从自行车上跌下擦 破了膝盖，他跑来安抚我。但后来，当我情绪低落、内心茫然、找不到自己的归 属时，当他的战时罪行如你所说将我从一个阵营赶往另一个阵营时，当我竭 力想成为一个与他不同的德国人时，他又干了些什么？父亲在哪里？我曾经 有机会从一个为那场灾难推波助澜的人那里吸取教训。他本可以向我解释， 他为什么屈从了，为什么放弃了抗争，或至少为什么没有及时抽身退步。我没 有听到任何解释，没有一个字。我就是为此而恨他，因为他不但把自己的生活 搞得一团糟，还错过了机会，没有让我从他的经验中受益。也许，倒不如那时 他们将他和其他人一道处死还干净些。 "
"他的父亲是一位军人，所以他也成了军人，他的父母是狂热的纳粹分子， 所以他也成了纳粹分子。他的全家从一开始就卷了进去。我对他的父亲一无 所知，他死于战争，他甚至认识希特勒。父亲告诉我。早年时，也就是1930年到 1933年，他经常与希特勒本人见面。“人们无法抗拒他的个人魅力。”父亲常常 这样说。 据他看来，战争年代展现的恐怖源于当时的种种条件和局势。然而，说实 话，父亲从未掩饰任何事情。他使用“杀人犯”和“罪犯”一类字眼儿，他从不辩 解，也从没说过我们从书报上读到的东西不真实，但就罪责而言，他从来不认 为自己是有罪的。他一次也没提到过他犯了错误，或他是一场罪恶中的共犯。 他不过是环境的牺牲品，而我呢，我始终相信他讲的每一件事。我相信他的种 种断言，相信他说的过去的一切乃是一场灾难，从没有怀疑他可能也是罪人 之一。但我的儿子摧毁了我的世界观。此后一切都改变了，而且还不止于此。 "
"过了很长时间，我才慢慢对他感到愤怒起来。如今，我知道他始终是个纳 粹分子，我不再看到他的两面，他只有那一面。随着年龄的增长，我越来越认 识到他���好斗和残酷。 他对我说过的，但我已经忘记或者当时压下的一些事情，现在不断浮现 出来。比如，我有时笨手笨脚，他就叫我残废，或说我太懒，要是在希特勒时代， 最后准会进劳动营。然后就是发怒、尖叫、大发雷霆。他从来不说一句安慰的 话，也没有体贴的回答。我从没听他说过哪个人有什么优点。我也不记得他赞 扬过什么，或说过什么东西美。 最近，也就是不太久以前，当他又对残疾人和另外一些不中用的人大发 议论时，我说他憎恨整个人类。在我的记忆中，这是他第一次没发火，而是惊 讶地看着我，一言未发。从那以后，我很少和他讲话。我还告诉他，我再也不想 听他胡说八道了。一语中地——这是第一次，但用了我四十年时间！ 对我来说，最重要也最伤脑筋的是，我真的根本不知道他在战时的所作 所为。每次我试着引他谈起，他总是回避我的问题。如果母亲在场，她就会制 止我，并且问我为什么老问这些。 他只有在发怒时，才会露出一些真相。凡是关于第三帝国的电视纪录片、 晚间新闻对纳粹的评论，都能使他大发雷霆。“一派胡言。”他会大叫。所有关 于纳粹罪行的报告和报道都不过是连篇的谎言。有一次他在大发雷霆时，第 一次提起他曾在布痕瓦尔德集中营外的职员宿舍住过。据他说，在那里工作 的人吃的好，穿的好，都是从集中营来的。就他而言，这些足以证明关于集中 营的所有报道都是谎言。 当然还有犹太人，这是他最爱讲的话题。据他说，犹太人过去什么都有， 有大百货商店，有很多钱，其余的人则一无所有，有的只是贫困。 如今，就他而言，情况又恢复了老样子。在美国，犹太人控制一切，我的老 师是“赤色分子”，他说的一切都是宣传。
他总是否认一切。没有屠杀，没有灭绝营，当然也没有个人的罪行。在这 些毫无意义的大发脾气之后，他总是说：“总有一天，你会发现事情的真相。到 那时，你会因为我总是对你说实话而感谢我。” 尽管如此，对我来说，要区分善恶还是很困难。我与他斗争，也与自己斗 争。我把和他的一些讨论录下来，然后同我的一个女朋友一起听。这些谈话总 是一个模式，总是同样的措词，同样的咄咄逼人。我试图与他按照逻辑发展平 静地辩论问题。多年来我一直在努力，从未放弃。直到现在，我才开始认识到 这一切是多么没有意义。"
"。如果我相信，我就要接受有关敌人的概念：一 个敌军士兵或一个敌对种族。这就是那会儿的思想。我不明白为什么现在我 们看问题的眼光会如此不同。为什么一个士兵多年来对着老百姓开枪，对着 楼群扔手榴弹，沉船炸桥，杀害妇女儿童，竟然可以在战后被准许回家，平平静
静地过日子，而我父亲则被认为是罪犯？两人都是受命杀人，各有各的方式。 两人都相信自己做得对。
......
我知道你是谁，我也能想象你现在对我有什么看法。但我是个诚实的人， 不想假装。这点很重要。我父亲杀了人，这是千真万确的。也许他杀了有数百 个犯人，这使他的良心受到谴责。他用人做实验，他没有帮助病人，他没有想 办法降低集中营的死亡率。但不应忘记，他所做的一切，都是出于他深深的信
仰，而不是嗜杀成性。他不是一个堕落者，而是一个政治动物，无意间发现自 己站错了队。如果不是因为这个，他大概会作为一个颇受人敬重的教授而退 休，而不是战后躲在一个搞研究的实验室里，当一名药剂师度过余生。
"
"后来，我离开家，开始对犹太人非常感兴趣。我开始了一种逆向歧视。我 看了有关集中营、“非人道医学”、迫害和灭绝犹太人的所有材料。有一段时 间，我把自己设想成受害者。有关幸存者的每一篇报道都使我入迷，我几乎觉 得这些事就发生在我自己身上。我与受害者，首先是幸存者，几乎有一种性爱 关系。后来关于犹太人的故事，他们在各方面都与父亲——政治上幼稚、强迫 性洁癖、道德上迟钝、学识上刻板、心胸狭窄——截然相反，他们的品质与我 以前对犹太人的看法完全不同。 我认识阿列克塞后，很快就对父母谈起他。我随便说起我遇到一个很可 爱的人，一个犹太人，我问他们是否想见见他。他们不由自主地回答：“可千万 别有孩子。”他们见了他以后，母亲唯一所能说的便是他身体不够健壮。这是 最重要的。他们的确注意到他有头脑，但他们担心孩子血统不纯，因为过去那 些可怜的小东西确实受过很多苦。 "
"我和你处境相同。我是我家里的犹太人。我父亲、母亲、外祖母，他们共同 密谋使家里的恐怖永远存在。而我是他们实行恐怖的对象。他们并不是要杀 死我，因为那太容易了。他们是想让我受折磨，就像把苍蝇的翅膀扯下来，眼 看它痛苦地扭动身体，挣扎着想逃脱。 我试着对此不予理睬，不让自己因此烦恼，假装对它无所谓。每当有什么 事使我烦恼，我总是不让自己的感觉占上风，我的父母对此有第六感觉，他们 只要觉得触到一条外露的神经，就会直逼上来。他们嗅着每一处伤口，热衷于 发现我的弱点。小时候，我想，我能够活下去的唯一出路，就是躲开他们，因为 他们要做的一切，就是每当看见一处伤口，就往上撒把盐，我回家时如果膝盖 擦伤了，他们会打我，因为我把裤子弄脏了。如果我哭，他们也要打我，因为我 不像个男子汉。如果我寻求帮助，他们就耻笑我。他们贬低我到不遗余力的地 步。 大家都说你们犹太人是战争的受害者。但对于你们中那些幸存者来说， 希特勒一死，苦难就结束了。而我们这些纳粹子女，则是苦海无边。他们的世 界土崩瓦解后，第三帝国的英雄们又划定了另一个战场——家庭。 在他们极为宝贵的帮助下，我形成了一种自卑感，其严重程度简直难以 想象。我小时候，是个真正的白痴，碰上什么事都害怕。在学校里，别的孩子打 我，我却从没想到自卫。如今依然如此。面对权威，我感到不安和紧张。
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外祖母现在也仍是个狂热的纳粹。她最爱说的话，就是如果再有一个希 特勒，结局肯定不会像上一次。下一个希特勒不会让别人把他打倒。她相信以 后会有第二个希特勒。每当我和她争论或谈论纳粹的那些恐怖行为，她就对 我尖叫，说我对事情的真相一无所知，说我听的都是犹太人和今天掌权的共 产党的宣传。有一次，我对她说，我就像犹太人，受我们这个社会的罪犯—— 像她这样的人——的压迫，她气得向我扔拖鞋。她现在已不能正常行走了。 我父亲的父母也都活着。祖父是工人，一个泥瓦匠，祖母是家庭妇女。父 亲有两个兄弟，都在战争时期阵亡了。父亲和祖父互不容忍。祖父总说父亲逃 避服兵役。他的两个兄弟至少是在战场上和真正的士兵打仗。而父亲，据他 说，是对手无寸铁的人开战。但不要误会，祖父也是一个坚定的纳粹分子，只 是他受不了党卫军。他认为战争失败就是他们的责任。他说他们如果不是留 在后方，而是上前线打仗，俄国佬就不会打赢。他恨俄国人，也恨美国人，当然 还有犹太人和黑人。我父亲的父母就住在我家附近，步行大约半小时就可以
到。
他们都充满仇恨和蔑视。这就是我生长的环境。不仅仅是对政治或个别 问题的看法，他们的态度囊括几乎生活的各个方面，食物、性爱和种族是他们 永恒的仇恨对象。他们认为所有那些肥胖的家伙和嫖客以及所有非德意志的 东西都应该被铲除掉。 但是，性爱难道没有更多的含义吗？难道它不意味着爱另一个人、这种 关系本身，当然还有对大自然的爱以及对自我的爱吗？我父母和祖父母那样 的人，是不可能爱任何人和任何事的。他们也许根本不知道爱别人是怎么回 事。 我却完全不同。我认为爱是至高无上的，我对蔑视我的人可以原谅，甚至 可以爱。我认为我与父母最重要的区别，就是我有感情，并能让其自由发展。 我的家人却不懂得敏感是什么意思。
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只有我们这些纳粹子女，没人关心，完全被忽视了。我们是纳粹意识形态 的真正继承者，是魔鬼和受法西斯折磨者结合的产物。我不再可怜任何人。所 有那些大学里兴起的团体，为南非、为智利、为苏联犹太人，都见鬼去吧，他们 选择受害者的标准就是离得愈远愈好，这样他们就不用与其接触。他们代表 树木游行示威，他们反对火箭，只因为他们怕死。他们完全是自私，或者假装 同情，以抬高自己的身价。但是谁也看不见真正的受害者——在家里被剥夺 了一切权利的人。 这个国家并不需要敏感和感情。我不是成功型的人，我在这里不会有多 大作为。除了我新交的女朋友，谁对献身和牺牲都一无所知。我在那些一味谈 论创纪录的运动员中是个跛子，但他们甚至看不见我在他们中间坐在轮椅 上。这个世界不是我的世界。
Some refused to talk about it, so refuse to admit they had such parents as Jews murderers. So just openly stood against their own parents, lived with guilt.
I think we need to remind ourselves about this very dark period of time, not just WWII. Same mass murders still happening in small or big scales. We need to drag ourselves our of the mud of accusing who is to blame, the point in how failed the humanity and how we lost the rationality. I look back at what happened in Taiwan, in China, in most Asian countries. Japanese government still refused Nan-kin Massacre ever happened, China refused to admitted Mao was a mass murderer; in Taiwan same, people throwing mud each year about how KMT killed innocent people, but not looking at the way to heal the wound of past should be more than that.
Facing the mistakes of past, discussing in depth to understand why the background and environment at that time caused people behaved certain ways. Burying the past without talking about it or facing the truth won't help the humanity, on the contrary, we might repeat the same mistakes if war happen again.
I am glad such a book was written and specially written by a Jewish, bravo!
.........................................................below are some paragraphs i found worth keeping for myself.
令我感触最深的一点或许是，战后的一代人从未亲眼看到他们的父母在 纳粹时代如何风光。那些身着党卫军制服、坚信希特勒和最后会取得胜利的 容光焕发的“青年英雄”，已经属于历史。他们的子女，只有在照片上和书本中 才能感受他们的辉煌。而在战争结束时和结束后，儿女记忆中的父母，却并非 如此，在大军进逼下仓惶逃窜，遭受狂轰滥炸，无家可归，求职无门，躲避盟军 警方的搜捕，锒铛入狱。在儿女们的记忆中，父母就是这样一些牺牲品，一场 输掉了的战争的牺牲品。 一位妇女的父亲是党卫军高级军官，曾在集中营身居要职，她形容父亲 时说道：“一个神经质的、战战兢兢的人，整天害怕警察会来抓他。我们四口人 挤在一间房里，父亲没有工作，又不敢在白天出门。”她问道：“那些应对千百 万人的死负责任的权力狂，难道就是这副模样吗？我绝对看不出父亲会有那 么大本事。” 这些纳粹分子的子女从来没有感受过父辈的正面形象，除非是在家庭 中。父母将自己看作受害者，儿女们年幼时，也接受了这种看法。但他们一旦 长大，多少知道了父母在战争时期充当的实际角色，自己往往又成为受害者 ——受其父母之害。我所采访的许多人就是这样看待自己的，他们认为自己 是某种心态的受害者，虽然战争输掉了，这种心态却在家庭中造就了法西斯 主义的氛围。外部环境改变了，德国和奥地利早已成为民主国家，但民族社会 主义意识形态却深深植根于那些行凶作恶者及其亲友的头脑中。因此，战后 的一代发现自己夹缠在外部的民主结构和家庭的法西斯结构之中。
"这些纳粹子女不仅不能矫正他们父母的过失，而且对他们的父母缺乏必
不可少的积极的认同。父辈的冷漠和沉闷伤害了他们，就算他们了解了过去， 也是因为付出了巨大努力。众说纷纭的“冷血症”——父母甚至不会为他们敬 爱的元首而哀痛——象征着战后家庭的气氛。子女将父母看作战争的“牺牲 品”，反映了他们的实际体验。那些大英雄、导师、超人，摇身变为小人物，将自 己视为命运的受害人，而非灾难的制造者。人们决不谈论个人的罪过和责任， 更不必说身为父母的耻辱。行凶作恶的一代以谎言、沉默和欺骗来应付他们 的儿女。在采访中，一位妇女对我说：“母亲哪怕只有一次告诉我她曾是参与 者，她犯了极大的错误，她希望我——她的女儿——从中吸取教训，我也会与 她和解，即使情况表明她当过集中营的看守。”
"请别误解我。我不是种族主义分子。我同犹太人无冤无仇，他们对我毫无 意义。我甚至一个犹太人也不认识。我刚十九岁，老是被指责在反犹罪行中也 有份儿，这太可笑了。什么意思？我们那时偷了他们还是抢了他们？我们今天 又有什么？我父亲十二岁时，他们带走了我爷爷，处决了他。剩下我奶奶和几 个孩子，两手空空，名誉扫地。老人家多少年来“为了祖国出生入死”，得到的奖 赏就是脖子上的一根绞索。我父亲可能有点儿窝囊，可我不怪他，我能理解他 为什么转向宗教。 你知道，有时我甚至不在乎当个穷苦的小犹太人。至少是今天，当然不是 在那时。而现在呢？人人都会同情你，你永远是受害者。人们因为内疚会拼命 塞钱给你，所有的大门对你都是敞开的。赔偿？别吓着我。谁又管我们呢？我 们一家四口，住在一所破公寓里，三间屋子，一星期吃一次肉，没有闲钱看电影 或享受任何其他娱乐。他们得到多少，我就失去多少。"
"问题在于所有这些与我父亲的生活又有什么关系。他从来没有触犯过法 律。相反，他就是诚实的化身。不管他面对怎样的上司、怎样的制度，他都堪称 模范公民。是我的母亲，在父亲死去一年后，告诉我他其实糟糕透了，他是屠 夫和刽子手的帮凶，行刑者手中的绞索，就是他送上去的，事先还试过了绞索 是否够结实——物资部门的首长，主要负责技术问题，并不考虑人。今天，我 难得有了权利，可以决定谁更让我鄙视——父亲还是母亲。没有过去，生活会 有多么可爱，有时我真希望在我还很小的时候，他们已经不在人世了。"
"。一个父亲，像 管理军队一样管理银行，一个永远有用而宝贵的人，可惜在必要时，没有哪怕 一点点情感和良心。不错，他曾经带我玩耍，给我读书。我从自行车上跌下擦 破了膝盖，他跑来安抚我。但后来，当我情绪低落、内心茫然、找不到自己的归 属时，当他的战时罪行如你所说将我从一个阵营赶往另一个阵营时，当我竭 力想成为一个与他不同的德国人时，他又干了些什么？父亲在哪里？我曾经 有机会从一个为那场灾难推波助澜的人那里吸取教训。他本可以向我解释， 他为什么屈从了，为什么放弃了抗争，或至少为什么没有及时抽身退步。我没 有听到任何解释，没有一个字。我就是为此而恨他，因为他不但把自己的生活 搞得一团糟，还错过了机会，没有让我从他的经验中受益。也许，倒不如那时 他们将他和其他人一道处死还干净些。 "
"他的父亲是一位军人，所以他也成了军人，他的父母是狂热的纳粹分子， 所以他也成了纳粹分子。他的全家从一开始就卷了进去。我对他的父亲一无 所知，他死于战争，他甚至认识希特勒。父亲告诉我。早年时，也就是1930年到 1933年，他经常与希特勒本人见面。“人们无法抗拒他的个人魅力。”父亲常常 这样说。 据他看来，战争年代展现的恐怖源于当时的种种条件和局势。然而，说实 话，父亲从未掩饰任何事情。他使用“杀人犯”和“罪犯”一类字眼儿，他从不辩 解，也从没说过我们从书报上读到的东西不真实，但就罪责而言，他从来不认 为自己是有罪的。他一次也没提到过他犯了错误，或他是一场罪恶中的共犯。 他不过是环境的牺牲品，而我呢，我始终相信他讲的每一件事。我相信他的种 种断言，相信他说的过去的一切乃是一场灾难，从没有怀疑他可能也是罪人 之一。但我的儿子摧毁了我的世界观。此后一切都改变了，而且还不止于此。 "
"过了很长时间，我才慢慢对他感到愤怒起来。如今，我知道他始终是个纳 粹分子，我不再看到他的两面，他只有那一面。随着年龄的增长，我越来越认 识到他���好斗和残酷。 他对我说过的，但我已经忘记或者当时压下的一些事情，现在不断浮现 出来。比如，我有时笨手笨脚，他就叫我残废，或说我太懒，要是在希特勒时代， 最后准会进劳动营。然后就是发怒、尖叫、大发雷霆。他从来不说一句安慰的 话，也没有体贴的回答。我从没听他说过哪个人有什么优点。我也不记得他赞 扬过什么，或说过什么东西美。 最近，也就是不太久以前，当他又对残疾人和另外一些不中用的人大发 议论时，我说他憎恨整个人类。在我的记忆中，这是他第一次没发火，而是惊 讶地看着我，一言未发。从那以后，我很少和他讲话。我还告诉他，我再也不想 听他胡说八道了。一语中地——这是第一次，但用了我四十年时间！ 对我来说，最重要也最伤脑筋的是，我真的根本不知道他在战时的所作 所为。每次我试着引他谈起，他总是回避我的问题。如果母亲在场，她就会制 止我，并且问我为什么老问这些。 他只有在发怒时，才会露出一些真相。凡是关于第三帝国的电视纪录片、 晚间新闻对纳粹的评论，都能使他大发雷霆。“一派胡言。”他会大叫。所有关 于纳粹罪行的报告和报道都不过是连篇的谎言。有一次他在大发雷霆时，第 一次提起他曾在布痕瓦尔德集中营外的职员宿舍住过。据他说，在那里工作 的人吃的好，穿的好，都是从集中营来的。就他而言，这些足以证明关于集中 营的所有报道都是谎言。 当然还有犹太人，这是他最爱讲的话题。据他说，犹太人过去什么都有， 有大百货商店，有很多钱，其余的人则一无所有，有的只是贫困。 如今，就他而言，情况又恢复了老样子。在美国，犹太人控制一切，我的老 师是“赤色分子”，他说的一切都是宣传。
他总是否认一切。没有屠杀，没有灭绝营，当然也没有个人的罪行。在这 些毫无意义的大发脾气之后，他总是说：“总有一天，你会发现事情的真相。到 那时，你会因为我总是对你说实话而感谢我。” 尽管如此，对我来说，要区分善恶还是很困难。我与他斗争，也与自己斗 争。我把和他的一些讨论录下来，然后同我的一个女朋友一起听。这些谈话总 是一个模式，总是同样的措词，同样的咄咄逼人。我试图与他按照逻辑发展平 静地辩论问题。多年来我一直在努力，从未放弃。直到现在，我才开始认识到 这一切是多么没有意义。"
"。如果我相信，我就要接受有关敌人的概念：一 个敌军士兵或一个敌对种族。这就是那会儿的思想。我不明白为什么现在我 们看问题的眼光会如此不同。为什么一个士兵多年来对着老百姓开枪，对着 楼群扔手榴弹，沉船炸桥，杀害妇女儿童，竟然可以在战后被准许回家，平平静
静地过日子，而我父亲则被认为是罪犯？两人都是受命杀人，各有各的方式。 两人都相信自己做得对。
......
我知道你是谁，我也能想象你现在对我有什么看法。但我是个诚实的人， 不想假装。这点很重要。我父亲杀了人，这是千真万确的。也许他杀了有数百 个犯人，这使他的良心受到谴责。他用人做实验，他没有帮助病人，他没有想 办法降低集中营的死亡率。但不应忘记，他所做的一切，都是出于他深深的信
仰，而不是嗜杀成性。他不是一个堕落者，而是一个政治动物，无意间发现自 己站错了队。如果不是因为这个，他大概会作为一个颇受人敬重的教授而退 休，而不是战后躲在一个搞研究的实验室里，当一名药剂师度过余生。
"
"后来，我离开家，开始对犹太人非常感兴趣。我开始了一种逆向歧视。我 看了有关集中营、“非人道医学”、迫害和灭绝犹太人的所有材料。有一段时 间，我把自己设想成受害者。有关幸存者的每一篇报道都使我入迷，我几乎觉 得这些事就发生在我自己身上。我与受害者，首先是幸存者，几乎有一种性爱 关系。后来关于犹太人的故事，他们在各方面都与父亲——政治上幼稚、强迫 性洁癖、道德上迟钝、学识上刻板、心胸狭窄——截然相反，他们的品质与我 以前对犹太人的看法完全不同。 我认识阿列克塞后，很快就对父母谈起他。我随便说起我遇到一个很可 爱的人，一个犹太人，我问他们是否想见见他。他们不由自主地回答：“可千万 别有孩子。”他们见了他以后，母亲唯一所能说的便是他身体不够健壮。这是 最重要的。他们的确注意到他有头脑，但他们担心孩子血统不纯，因为过去那 些可怜的小东西确实受过很多苦。 "
"我和你处境相同。我是我家里的犹太人。我父亲、母亲、外祖母，他们共同 密谋使家里的恐怖永远存在。而我是他们实行恐怖的对象。他们并不是要杀 死我，因为那太容易了。他们是想让我受折磨，就像把苍蝇的翅膀扯下来，眼 看它痛苦地扭动身体，挣扎着想逃脱。 我试着对此不予理睬，不让自己因此烦恼，假装对它无所谓。每当有什么 事使我烦恼，我总是不让自己的感觉占上风，我的父母对此有第六感觉，他们 只要觉得触到一条外露的神经，就会直逼上来。他们嗅着每一处伤口，热衷于 发现我的弱点。小时候，我想，我能够活下去的唯一出路，就是躲开他们，因为 他们要做的一切，就是每当看见一处伤口，就往上撒把盐，我回家时如果膝盖 擦伤了，他们会打我，因为我把裤子弄脏了。如果我哭，他们也要打我，因为我 不像个男子汉。如果我寻求帮助，他们就耻笑我。他们贬低我到不遗余力的地 步。 大家都说你们犹太人是战争的受害者。但对于你们中那些幸存者来说， 希特勒一死，苦难就结束了。而我们这些纳粹子女，则是苦海无边。他们的世 界土崩瓦解后，第三帝国的英雄们又划定了另一个战场——家庭。 在他们极为宝贵的帮助下，我形成了一种自卑感，其严重程度简直难以 想象。我小时候，是个真正的白痴，碰上什么事都害怕。在学校里，别的孩子打 我，我却从没想到自卫。如今依然如此。面对权威，我感到不安和紧张。
............................
外祖母现在也仍是个狂热的纳粹。她最爱说的话，就是如果再有一个希 特勒，结局肯定不会像上一次。下一个希特勒不会让别人把他打倒。她相信以 后会有第二个希特勒。每当我和她争论或谈论纳粹的那些恐怖行为，她就对 我尖叫，说我对事情的真相一无所知，说我听的都是犹太人和今天掌权的共 产党的宣传。有一次，我对她说，我就像犹太人，受我们这个社会的罪犯—— 像她这样的人——的压迫，她气得向我扔拖鞋。她现在已不能正常行走了。 我父亲的父母也都活着。祖父是工人，一个泥瓦匠，祖母是家庭妇女。父 亲有两个兄弟，都在战争时期阵亡了。父亲和祖父互不容忍。祖父总说父亲逃 避服兵役。他的两个兄弟至少是在战场上和真正的士兵打仗。而父亲，据他 说，是对手无寸铁的人开战。但不要误会，祖父也是一个坚定的纳粹分子，只 是他受不了党卫军。他认为战争失败就是他们的责任。他说他们如果不是留 在后方，而是上前线打仗，俄国佬就不会打赢。他恨俄国人，也恨美国人，当然 还有犹太人和黑人。我父亲的父母就住在我家附近，步行大约半小时就可以
到。
他们都充满仇恨和蔑视。这就是我生长的环境。不仅仅是对政治或个别 问题的看法，他们的态度囊括几乎生活的各个方面，食物、性爱和种族是他们 永恒的仇恨对象。他们认为所有那些肥胖的家伙和嫖客以及所有非德意志的 东西都应该被铲除掉。 但是，性爱难道没有更多的含义吗？难道它不意味着爱另一个人、这种 关系本身，当然还有对大自然的爱以及对自我的爱吗？我父母和祖父母那样 的人，是不可能爱任何人和任何事的。他们也许根本不知道爱别人是怎么回 事。 我却完全不同。我认为爱是至高无上的，我对蔑视我的人可以原谅，甚至 可以爱。我认为我与父母最重要的区别，就是我有感情，并能让其自由发展。 我的家人却不懂得敏感是什么意思。
........................
只有我们这些纳粹子女，没人关心，完全被忽视了。我们是纳粹意识形态 的真正继承者，是魔鬼和受法西斯折磨者结合的产物。我不再可怜任何人。所 有那些大学里兴起的团体，为南非、为智利、为苏联犹太人，都见鬼去吧，他们 选择受害者的标准就是离得愈远愈好，这样他们就不用与其接触。他们代表 树木游行示威，他们反对火箭，只因为他们怕死。他们完全是自私，或者假装 同情，以抬高自己的身价。但是谁也看不见真正的受害者——在家里被剥夺 了一切权利的人。 这个国家并不需要敏感和感情。我不是成功型的人，我在这里不会有多 大作为。除了我新交的女朋友，谁对献身和牺牲都一无所知。我在那些一味谈 论创纪录的运动员中是个跛子，但他们甚至看不见我在他们中间坐在轮椅 上。这个世界不是我的世界。
April 17, 2012
Not very informative. It's a rewriting of interviews in a first person point of view. I'm sure a transcript would have been more useful for people interested in the subject. Especially since the only transcript of a phone interview printed in this book definitely shows how the author was hostile and aggressive in his way to address the person being interviewed.
I read this book after seeing a play by Hannah Moscovitch called 'East of Berlin'. Most of the play can be traced back to quotes from this book. So now I'm disappointed at the play, too.
I read this book after seeing a play by Hannah Moscovitch called 'East of Berlin'. Most of the play can be traced back to quotes from this book. So now I'm disappointed at the play, too.
June 17, 2018
A friend recommends this to me a couple of months ago, but I didn't pick up this book until this morning. It amazed me, and it's not a book can be judged by that somewhat tedious title but the best interview collection about the post-WWII German life and attitude I have ever read.
What stuns me most is everything talked and presented in this book cannot be viewed simply as some German issues or Nazi issues, and such impression will be more obvious if you are a fan of psychoanalysis. It's not a book you might expect about the children and their Nazi families, or about how uniquely the Nazi family issues cast shadow in their life, because as a matter of fact, all the issues all the confusion and complexes here can be understood by anyone who has the same type of family problems - under the name of Nazi it can do harm, under the name of peace and love will be the same, names matter little, what matters most is the family and culture mode. It reminds me of things argued by Melanie Klein but I am more willingly to quote Sigmund Freud here, from his The Future of an Illusion, when talking about young people who believe themselves "have been brought up in kindness and taught to have a high opinion of reason, and who have experienced the benefits of civilization at an early age, will have a different attitude to it (means what is believed by their predecessors)" and "they will be able to do without coercion and will differ little from their leaders. (However,) If no culture has so far produced human masses of such a quality, it is because no culture has yet devised regulations which will influence men in this way, and in particular from childhood onwards".
That's perhaps one of the reasons why people who interviewed in this book found their lives in so much pain , difficulties, irritation, frustration and depressions - they want to be different from parents or some family members, but willingly or not, consciously or not, they are always part of them, there is no way out, like it or not. And it's not a problem of certain age or group, but a universal issues. When adapting one's life from an family realm into the society outside, it's always a struggle of civilization that one has to undertake. Some of them dealt with it relatively ok (though not without pain and doubt), like Anna and Susanne (alters the role/complex from a daughter to a mother) and Werner (that chapter brought me to tears, his step-grandfather is such an awesome guy), some people's life helplessly and hopelessly sinks into stagnation, caught by the fixation of childhood shadows, like Rudolf (it pains me to read his narration).
When talking about parenting is hard, it's not about emphasizing that parents are exhausted from what they are ought to do as parents or their hard life like a victim ("I work so hard! I've been through so much!"), but the responsibility that one's influence inevitably become part of their children's fate, one must be very cautious and caring. Playing victim is never about good parenting but to evade one's responsibility, no matter this responsibility is among the realm of one's social role or family ties. It's more often than not that the reader will find those people interviewed by Peter Sichrovsky are prone to identifying themselves to their parent-imago in some degree, especially the victim part.
Most of the parents talked in this book have one thing in common: they live in the past, either in pride and privation, or in gravely fear and cowardliness. It's a life attitude of stagnation and regression, and inevitably, most of the children in fact clawed by it and some of them even have to carry on with new or diverse regressive attitude of a life getting stuck, for such pathological parent-imago is too strong.
One of a powerful break-up revealing is from the chapter Monika: the Believer which I will just leave it here:
I'll update later perhaps.
What stuns me most is everything talked and presented in this book cannot be viewed simply as some German issues or Nazi issues, and such impression will be more obvious if you are a fan of psychoanalysis. It's not a book you might expect about the children and their Nazi families, or about how uniquely the Nazi family issues cast shadow in their life, because as a matter of fact, all the issues all the confusion and complexes here can be understood by anyone who has the same type of family problems - under the name of Nazi it can do harm, under the name of peace and love will be the same, names matter little, what matters most is the family and culture mode. It reminds me of things argued by Melanie Klein but I am more willingly to quote Sigmund Freud here, from his The Future of an Illusion, when talking about young people who believe themselves "have been brought up in kindness and taught to have a high opinion of reason, and who have experienced the benefits of civilization at an early age, will have a different attitude to it (means what is believed by their predecessors)" and "they will be able to do without coercion and will differ little from their leaders. (However,) If no culture has so far produced human masses of such a quality, it is because no culture has yet devised regulations which will influence men in this way, and in particular from childhood onwards".
That's perhaps one of the reasons why people who interviewed in this book found their lives in so much pain , difficulties, irritation, frustration and depressions - they want to be different from parents or some family members, but willingly or not, consciously or not, they are always part of them, there is no way out, like it or not. And it's not a problem of certain age or group, but a universal issues. When adapting one's life from an family realm into the society outside, it's always a struggle of civilization that one has to undertake. Some of them dealt with it relatively ok (though not without pain and doubt), like Anna and Susanne (alters the role/complex from a daughter to a mother) and Werner (that chapter brought me to tears, his step-grandfather is such an awesome guy), some people's life helplessly and hopelessly sinks into stagnation, caught by the fixation of childhood shadows, like Rudolf (it pains me to read his narration).
When talking about parenting is hard, it's not about emphasizing that parents are exhausted from what they are ought to do as parents or their hard life like a victim ("I work so hard! I've been through so much!"), but the responsibility that one's influence inevitably become part of their children's fate, one must be very cautious and caring. Playing victim is never about good parenting but to evade one's responsibility, no matter this responsibility is among the realm of one's social role or family ties. It's more often than not that the reader will find those people interviewed by Peter Sichrovsky are prone to identifying themselves to their parent-imago in some degree, especially the victim part.
Most of the parents talked in this book have one thing in common: they live in the past, either in pride and privation, or in gravely fear and cowardliness. It's a life attitude of stagnation and regression, and inevitably, most of the children in fact clawed by it and some of them even have to carry on with new or diverse regressive attitude of a life getting stuck, for such pathological parent-imago is too strong.
One of a powerful break-up revealing is from the chapter Monika: the Believer which I will just leave it here:
"...I took everything they said seriously, and I was taken in by it. But in the final analysis, the pretended warmth, the pleas, the stress on family ties was nothing but a sum total of regulation and norms, not of personal values...I know what I have in common with them. And I wasn't able to change, to make myself over, until I stopped thinking of them as victims. I also saw myself as the victim of their upbringing and their past."
I'll update later perhaps.
February 28, 2024
Very interesting. Like the many facets on a diamond, many different viewpoints on the same experience. The greatest chapter, to me anyway, was the final "The Misfortune of Being Born Too Late". So many speculate how they would have acted differently from the populous had they existed at thst time. "Half the population supported Hitler" at that time, yet instantly became antifascists after downfall. This rings so true to what I see currently in America under the insane influence of Donald Trump. Watch how many will get instintly smarter once he's finally convicted and no longer pulling the levers.
Read
March 24, 2024Una piccolo numero di figli di personalità naziste racconta la propria esperienza in famiglia e il loro rapporto con la scoperta della verità, relativamente all'operato del padre e della madre durante il periodo hitleriano. Alcuni condannano, altri cercano di superare il trauma, altri costruiscono il futuro, altri aderiscono ciecamente alle idee genitoriali, come l'aspirante medico che approva la selezione razziale e l'omicidio in ambito sanitario a scopi eugenetici.
October 8, 2018
It is interesting reading about the anecdotes of children of Nazi facing the moral dilemma of having parents who possibly committed war crimes, but I wish there’s a conclusive ending or at least some insight provided at the ending. It’s like reading a research paper that has no thesis or conclusion.
May 19, 2020
This was a depressing book. The story is told thru the eyes of the children and grandchildren of Nazis. The Nazi's did not talk about their experiences until questioned by their offspring. When questioned the Nazis portrayed themselves as victims or knelt on the ground in a cowardly fashion or in other ways acted as cowards.
March 30, 2018
Can't forget this one! I foresee this being super useful. Was overwhelmed by the honesty.
August 19, 2018
Fascinating. Good read to go along with the DVD "What Our Fathers Did-A Nazi Legacy"
January 10, 2022
Spojrzenie na wojnę i nazizm oczami dzieci katów.
August 7, 2010
born guilty
after Hitler's reign
offspring of a soldier
cloaked in seminal shame
accusation's shadows
drape over common forms
neighbours to survivors
normalcy is torn
silence is a curtain
to keep the past from sight
guilt begets more guilt,
tortured dreams at night
sins of the fathers
revisit on the child
not always repeating crimes;
stigma has a price
after Hitler's reign
offspring of a soldier
cloaked in seminal shame
accusation's shadows
drape over common forms
neighbours to survivors
normalcy is torn
silence is a curtain
to keep the past from sight
guilt begets more guilt,
tortured dreams at night
sins of the fathers
revisit on the child
not always repeating crimes;
stigma has a price
November 17, 2011
I found the interviews to be very thoughtful and provoking. This book added additional insight to Germany's Vergangenheitsbewältigung. I haven't read the English version, but I have no doubt that it's just as meaningful.
February 1, 2008
Written from interviews with children whose parents were Nazis. Reactions to parents and what those parents have done is not always what you'd expect.
April 1, 2016
amazing
July 10, 2011
Best non-fiction book I've possibly ever read. So many insights into the human condition.
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