Fatal Rivalry, Flodden 1513. Henry VIII, James IV and the Battle for Renaissance Britain

by George Goodwin

Fatal Rivalry Flodden 1513

Genres: History, Nonfiction, Tudor Period, Scotland, War, Historical, Medieval

288 pages, Paperback

First published July 4, 2013

Reviews

[Marshall · Rating 4 out of 5]

Good overview of English Scottish relations during the late Medieval/early Modern period. The book focuses initially on the rapprochement undertaken by Henry VII and James IV in the wake of the Perkin Warbeck affair. Both sought and won recognition of their respective conditions as king of England and Scotland respectively, permitting a redirection of resources away from conflict. This did not last. Henry VIII wanted military glory, a yearning that overthrew his father's more pacific policy. James IV comes off as a more competent ruler than is generally accorded. He was defeated at Flodden, but he did create the architecture that enabled Scotland to outlast the next three royal minor rulers. (James V, Mary Queen of Scots and James VI). In the end, it was the Howard family that truly won at Flodden, Henry VIII was engaged in yet another pointless conflict in France. The Howards went on to be the dominant family at the court of Henry VIII's court, providing no less than two of Henry's six wives. This book provides an excellent account of the impact of Flodden and how decisions undertaken in the 16th century, continues to impact Great Britain today.

[Victoria Mottram · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is a marvellously detailed account of the Battle of Flodden and the political circumstances leading up to and surrounding the event from both English and Scottish perspectives, as far as is possible. Goodwin draws on the latest research and critically analyses a wide range of contemporary sources in this impressive feat. I would have liked to have read more about the social impact of the Battle of Flodden and more about Katherine of Aragon's involvement. Overall, however, this is an authoritative and impressive account.

[Victoria · Rating 4 out of 5]

A quite interesting book.

The majority of the book focuses ( somewhat misleadingly given the title) on the background to Flodden, the English and Scottish rivalries.). The description of the battle itself fills only one chapter. The book is however clearly well researched.

The book itself is more of an overview of the time period and does not go into any great detail - so it is probably not for those new to the era. I already knew a little bit of background information due to my reading on the Tudor period and specifically the Henrician period of 1509-1547.

As an introduction to the time period this book is worth a read - however I would suggest that those who want further detail would need to read further more detailed books on both pre Renaissance Scotland and Pre Reformation England.

[Barbara · Rating 4 out of 5]

Growing up in Scotland, I learned that Flodden was a great catastrophe, with the deaths not only of our brilliant and charismatic King James IV but also thousands of Scotsmen from across all social classes - "the flowers of the forest are a' wede away". (And that bagpipe tune is now only played at funerals and memorials, so traumatic is the memory of that disaster.) As a child, I never questioned why Flodden took place - it was just part of the ongoing relationship between the Scots and the English. Now, thanks to this brilliant book, I have belatedly learned about all the events leading up to Flodden, the relationships between the countries over the previous decades, the attempts at creating a permanent peace, destroyed by Henry VIII's refusal to accept Scotland as an independent country rather than a vassal state. The characters of those two kings, their wives (and in fact it was Catherine of Aragon who oversaw the preparations for Flodden while Henry was in France), their advisors, and above all the descriptions of their courts and lifestyles, moving from medieval to Renaissance, make for gripping reading. Just the details of the military manoeuvres slowed it down a bit for me, although I now know why it was such a disaster - because James, for all his brilliant intellect and learning, did not know about hydrogeology.

[Tom · Rating 5 out of 5]

Goodwin does the impossible, taking myriad details and ancient names and tying them together through fine scholarship and breezy prose into a fascinating story of two key British kings, one Scott, one English. Kudos. Useful for scholars and yet inviting to anyone who wants to understand Renaissance Britain!

[J.A. Gilbert · Rating 5 out of 5]

I found this to be a very interesting book, which gave sufficient detail to explain what happened and why, but without becoming bogged down in trivia. In addition, the author did not appear to express any bias towards either side. I would thoroughly recommend this book to anyone interested in Tudor and/or the problems between England and Scotland.

[Richard · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is a slow burner, but stick with it. Goodwin spends more time examining the reasons why Flodden happened than the battle itself. The clue to that is the book' title - Fatal Rivalry. In doing so he paints a vivid picture of what it meant to be a European Renaissance monarch. Flodden was a shattering defeat for James IV and the Scots, even though they were better prepared for battle and were up against the English B team.

Thomas Howard, Earl of Surrey was the winning captain, but Goodwin doesn't really paint anyone in too favourable a light. As for warring Bishops! I struggle to get my head round their antics! Especially a family forbear, Christopher Bainbridge, a native of Hilton in Cumbria who went on to become, Bishop of Durham, Archbishop of York, an executor of James VII's will before becoming a Cardinal in Rome and appears not to have had a moral fibre in his being.

It seemed in keeping with the times that when the victorious English troops returned to their camp at Barmoor it had been raided and looted by Border Reivers from the English East March!

[Carolina Casas · Rating 5 out of 5]

The book is loaded with a lot of details that when I first read it, I thought were unnecessary - which is I re-read it. I appreciated it more when I read it a second time, and constantly use it when I revisit the evnets of Flodden, including those leading up to the battle.

The author doesn't toss asside Katherine as a valuable player, but gives a broader picture of the conflict showing that Henry was as much an active player as his wife when he left her as his Regent to restore England's old glory in France.
And then there is James IV and Margaret. Although I would have enjoyed if the author delved deeper into Margaret's character, he did a good job giving exposition to an otherwise underappreciated King. Often, he is depicted or thought of the instigator when there were more variants than two Kings who wanted to revive the old bad blood that existed between their two nations. Goodwin shows that James IV was a King of many faces, who truly cared for his people and even though he miscalculated at times, he believed that his interests coincided with what was best for the nation.

The end result is one everyone knows. Yet, that is not the only thing that matters here; the journey that led to that fatal rivalry and fatal end for the King of Scots is heavily detailed in this book.

[Diana · Rating 3 out of 5]

I never thought I'd be one to read a book about battles and kings, but this is a fascinating and tragic (for James IV) story that will appeal to anyone interested in the histories of Scotland and England. At times I found 'Fatal Rivalry' a bit repetitive, but overall I enjoyed it. Goodwin has written a well-sourced book that provides a wealth of information not only on the Battle of Flodden, but also on the characters involved and the critical events leading up to the battle.

[Katherine Simmons · Rating 4 out of 5]

Good guide albeit a tad dry, for someone who hasn't really read much of this period of history it was an informative start.

[GooseReadsBooks · Rating 5 out of 5]

Fatal Rivalry is more than a book about a battle. It is more than a study of Renaissance Britain. It is a tale about personalities and the ambition of kingdoms.

Goodwin does an excellent job of framing the confusing and unstable world of Tudor England and how fragile the initial rule of Henry VII was. This is contrasted with the rule of James IV of Scotland. The author identifies what makes the story so interesting, which is that initially, Henry VII is the more experienced leader in dealing with the young king of Scotland, but by the time of Flodden, James IV has been ruling longer than Henry VIII.

In James IV we encounter a great king, someone who has the determination and steel to unite Scotland, even bringing the submission of the outer isles of Scotland using a new modern navy. However this is contrasted with the side of James which is deeply involved in the Rennaisance and understands the trend of centralising rule.

The nature of the border between England and Scotland is explored and one can see the great challenge for kings on both sides of the border to maintain peace and not allow border reivers from undermining the peace. We also see that despite their best efforts to avoid the border becoming a source of conflict it continues to produce issues.

Flodden emerges as a case where the king of Scotland feels that with the English occupied in France it is a chance to assert his control of the border and establish himself firmly as a great king. When he sees the army that England has sent to confront him (made up of those who were left behind from the French campaign) he senses an opportunity to route or even destroy an English army and doesn't retreat back over the border.

The battle of Flodden itself highlights the very critical role that nature has played in historical battles. In the case of Flodden, James was not familiar with the ground he was fighting on and made a mistake in judging some of the ground to be easily marchable by his troops, leading them himself he advanced with pikemen (a new and very powerful force in battles) only to become bogged down in mud and his forces losing momentum.

The battle was a defeat for Scotland and arguably might have been the beginning of a decline that would lead to Scotland and England combining.

This book is well written, concise and clear yet teeming with detail that brings to life the subject. I flew through this book and didn't find my interest dropped at all. Whether that is because I read this book at a time when I am interested in the subject is possible but I feel that the true case is that this is an excellently written history.

[Maura Heaphy Dutton · Rating 5 out of 5]

Fascinating account of the events, decisions and personality dynamics leading up to the catastrophic clash of the Scots and the English at Flodden in 1513, where James IV, King of the Scots, and a whole generation of Scots noblemen were slaughtered in a battle that should not have happened, and could have been won by the Scots.

Goodwin tracks the dynamic between James and Henry VIII, and it was particularly interesting to see Henry VIII before he was that Henry (serial monogamist, wife-killer and bloated whale). The Henry of 1513 is a handsome, fit 20-something, still madly in love with his lovely Spanish queen, still confident that he will soon be the father of a nursery-full of bouncing, red-haired boys, and still revelling in his freedom from the boring, penny-pinching diplomacy of his dad. Henry VII, out of regard for his own precarious (ahem, dubious) claim to his throne, and for his country's healthy finances, had signed a Treaty of Perpetual Peace with James in 1498. Spoiler alert: it wasn't, not when #VIII decided it would be much more fun to make Scotland his 51st state, and downgrade its king to the status of his vassal.

Fascinating factoids, that I should have known, but didn't:

When Flodden was fought, Henry was off, cosplaying Henry V in France, acting out his own version of "a little touch of Harry in the night," and "once more into the breach, dear friends," almost 90 years before Shakespeare.

The battle was actually won by Sir Thomas Howard, Earl of Surrey, assisted by assorted members of the Howard clan, for whom this was a last-ditch effort to restore their family reputation, and get into Henry's good books. And it worked: Thomas was promoted to Duke of Norfolk as a reward, and eventually became the uncle of two of Henry's (ill-fated) Queens.

Something I DID know: Queen Catherine was left behind as Regent, in Henry's absence, and the lady played her role to the hilt -- literally. She would have dearly loved to send James' bloody corpse over to Henry, to celebrate their victory but "our Englishmen's hearts would not suffer it." So she made do with sending James' bloody surcoat. Cold.

The irony, of course, is that our current king is a direct(ish) descendent, not of Henry, nor his bloodthirsty queen, but of James IV, King of the Scots and his great-grandson James VI of Scotland and I of England. The two kingdoms were united -- just not quite the way Henry had in mind. History really does play the long game.

And at Queen Victoria's funeral, and at the state funeral of every monarch since then, the pipers play "The Flowers of the Forest," and remember Flodden:

Dool and wae for the order sent oor lads tae the Border!
The English for ance, by guile wan the day,
The Flooers o' the Forest, that fought aye the foremost,
The pride o' oor land lie cauld in the clay.

Persuaded me that I really should know more about the history of Scotland and its rulers -- and this was an excellent place to start.

[Tim Robinson · Rating 5 out of 5]

James' plan for Flodden was a downhill pike charge in four waves. And had the terrain been what it appeared to be, the English with their shorter weapons would have been skewered or driven back into the swamp to drown. But the lower slopes of the hill were rougher and boggier than they seemed and the Scots lost momentum. Their 18-foot pikes had the advantage over the English 8-foot bills in a charge, but in a standing melee, the boot was on the other foot and the English triumphed. This, plus the English decision not to take any prisoners, resulted in the biggest slaughter ever suffered by a Scots army in England.

But the book is about much more than that. Going right back to Henry VII, Goodwin places the battles, the war and the Anglo-Scotch rivalry in full historical context.

[Graeme · Rating 3 out of 5]

George Goodwin provides an insightful account of the royal rivalries which led to the rout of Scotland’s Renaissance army in September 1513. Unfortunately, the book is let down somewhat in Chapter 11 by what seems a rushed and dated treatment of earlier Scottish history and national origin myths. Modern scholarship does not support the notion that the Picts were subordinated to the Scots by military conquest. For a recent digestible summary of current thinking on the transition from Pictland to Alba, see Julianna Grigg’s ‘The Picts Re-Imagined’ (2018). For a thorough exploration of Scottish origin myths see Emily Wingfield’s remarkable ‘The Trojan Legend in Medieval Scottish Literature’ (2014).

[Kristine Hicken · Rating 5 out of 5]

This was a well written and interesting non-fiction that detailed so much more of the late 15th - early 16th century struggle between England and Scotland than the battle of Flodden. Although Henry VIII is a well known historical figure, I have read very little about the Scottish king, James IV, who held such promise as a true Renaissance monarch. His untimely death was truly a tragic event for a Scotland trying to heal from years of instability. As a die-hard Ricardian, I appreciated Goodwin's portrayal of Henry VII. He never visited the controversy surrounding The Princes in The Tower nor was this the book in which to do so. Instead I believe he gave a fair and well researched view of the first Tudor king, his motivations and the affect he had on his son, Henry.

[Steven Shook · Rating 3 out of 5]

Fatal Rivalry: Flodden, 1513 provides an excellent overview of the people, places, and events associated with the Battle of Flodden. The book is well written, reads quickly, and includes excellent maps to orient the reader to the battle layout. Several high quality color plates are also included in the book.

Goodwin takes several complex individuals - James IV, Henry VII, Henry VIII, Katharine of Aragon, Emperor Maximilian, among many others - and weaves their stories together to provide an overall context that sets the stage explaining Flodden. I found Goodwin's coverage of naval innovations particularly interesting.

[Eurydicegirlgmail.Com · Rating 4 out of 5]

Insightful, fresh review of the reign of James IV

The author reconstructs Scotland’s internal political dynamics, the reivers border conflicts and bitter legacy of English expansionism, outlying James IV’s diplomacy, deft handling of quarrelsome magnates and the accomplishments and visionary legacy of his renaissance kingship.

[Fernando D · Rating 3 out of 5]

An entertaining and informative look at the personalities and politics of late Renaissance Britain from the perspective of the English and Scottish royal houses. Reading it while visiting Edinburgh made it all the more enjoyable!

[Éowyn · Rating 3 out of 5]

For book with the subtitle Flodden 1513, this actually spent relatively little time on the battle. I know the context is important, but I think I partly felt disappointed as it didn't deliver what it said on the tin!

[Duncan Steele · Rating 3 out of 5]

Numerical advantage in terms of men, better supplied army and better artillery.

And Scotland still makes an arse of it!

The story of how nonsensical alliances led to the Scottish army being decimated despite seemingly holding all of the advantages.

[Mary · Rating 5 out of 5]

Terrific examination of a crucial battle in UK history. The author does a terrific job of identifying the primary players and the events leading up to the battle. There's also an analysis of the impact of terrain on the battle that was eye opening.

[Hamish Kadrian · Rating 4 out of 5]

A insightful and engaging book. It allows the reader a rich understanding of the context this battle took place. Insights into each of the individuals is provided and it is overall a satisfying read.

[J.M.A. Foster · Rating 5 out of 5]

Compelling and informative. I found the narrative to be fluent and interesting throughout. I feel that book has given me a comprehensive overview of the subject, and I enjoyed the entertaining, telling details included by the author.

[Innes Chalmers · Rating 4 out of 5]

An enjoyable and digestible history of Stuart Scotland and Tudor England. If you’re seeking military history, it only reaches the events of the battle in the last few pages. But that didn’t bother me.

[David · Rating 4 out of 5]

Well written book about a battle I had never heard of. Provides a good background on the politics, and the aftereffects.

[Phil Brett · Rating 4 out of 5]

Good detailed history. Enjoyed reading it after we had walked to the battlefield on holiday.

[Lyle Probert · Rating 4 out of 5]

4 stars- whilst the book devotes little to Flodden itself, it does an excellent job of placing it in its proper context of a defining moment in the relationship between England and Scotland.

[Dimitrios Souvan · Rating 5 out of 5]

It is not often that genuinely worthwhile and unique spins are given on Henry VIII. Thousands of books have been written about him and books are still churned out about him. The story of James IV is much lesser known. I really appreciated the way it delved into lesser known Scottish details which are usually left out and instead focused on the shenanigans. Definitely recommend this book.

[Jessica · Rating 3 out of 5]

The Battle of Flodden, or, How Henry VIII Ruined His Father's Accomplishments, Made His Sister's Life Hell, and Nearly Destroyed Scotland.

Fatal Rivalry started off strong and then started to peter out as it became less focused on people and more on logistics. It also really stuck home just how little we know about Margaret Tudor beyond who she married and divorced.

[Billhotto · Rating 3 out of 5]

Interesting account of the English victory over a Scots army led by King James IV on 9/7/1513. Goodwin sees James as a successful monarch who united Scotland behind him and had gained recognition as an equal by Henry VII. English kings had treated their Scot counterparts as their vassals. In 1502 James and Henry VII agreed to a "Treaty of Perpetual Peace", to seal the deal James married Henry's older daughter, Margaret. Coming to the throne in 1509, Henry VIII returned to the policy of subordination. Henry was young, virile and wanted to prove himself. His treatment of James was popular in England, but led to a renewal of the "auld alliance" between Scotland and France. When Henry invaded France in the summer of 1513, James crossed the Tweed with an army of 40,000. Henry had made Queen Catherine the regent, she raised an army of 26,000 under the seventy year old Earl of Surrey. The two armies met a few miles south of the border, the result was the deaths of James and 10,0oo of his countrymen. The English lost about 4,000. The battle was a combination of old and new. It began with an exchange of cannon fire and ended with flights of arrows. Goodwin sees the prime cause of the Scots' defeat was James' failure to reconnoiter the terrain before the battle. Henry didn't attempt to follow up on the victory, the battle did disrupt politics in Scotland as James' infant son became James V. In a way, James did win out. The Tudors died out with Elizabeth I, but in 1603 James' great grandson, James VI, became King James I of England.