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Climbing in Heels

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Capturing the fast, furious—and, for the first time, femaledealmaking that gave us blockbuster movies and stars in the go-go 1980’s, first-time novelist Goldsmith Thomas takes the William Morris Agency as her setting, and rivalry, competition and power as her intertwined themes.

It was called "the boys club," and for years it was just that. The men had the offices, and the women serviced them – bringing coffee, answering phones, looking pretty, polite, subservient. But by the 80’s women were releasing themselves from cutting the bras and girdles and phone cords wrapped around their bodies; everything that tied them down, keeping them small. It wasn’t that their dreams were bigger or their opportunities more available. It was just their time. But the men didn’t yield easily.

CLIMBING IN HEELS is the story of three women - Beanie Rosen, Ella Gaddy, and Lara Baxter – whose backgrounds were as unique as their talent, whose passion was as fierce as their rage, and whose unwillingness to settle for less in a world where less was expected rose with grit, stood on each other’s shoulders, balancing, stretching, reaching to touch the top. It was thick, that glass ceiling, and they only scratched the surface. But in scratching it they brought the biggest theatrical agency in the world, William Morris, to its knees. It’s also the story about how sometimes they became the very monsters they fought against.

Beanie, Ella and Lara are more than ambitious—they’re quick-thinking (Beanie), devil-may-care (Ella) and calculating (Lara) predators. Colleagues, friends, sometime roommates and frequently frenemies, they manipulate an already cutthroat business to make places for themselves.

Sexy, plot-rich, and full of the details that made the talent agencies businesses of fascination and front page news, CLIMBING IN HEELS brings all the swagger, customs and costumes of Los Angeles in the ‘80s to life. It’s like turning THE SEVEN HUSBANDS OF EVELYN HUGO inside out and discovering that the lives of the starmakers are even more gripping than the lives of the stars themselves.

Kindle Edition

Published April 29, 2025

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About the author

Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas

3 books87 followers
ELAINE GOLDSMITH THOMAS began her career at the William Morris Agency and rose in spite of the boys club of the late 1980’s to become the Senior Vice president of the WMA, and later the Senior Vice President of ICM, guiding the careers of actors such as Julia Roberts, Jennifer Lopez, Nicholas Cage, Madonna, and more. She produced successful films and television series including 13 Going on 30, Maid in Manhattan, Mona Lisa Smile, Hustlers, Emily in Paris, and many others.

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Displaying 1 - 30 of 260 reviews
Profile Image for Louise.
1,109 reviews265 followers
May 8, 2025
(2.25 stars)
I was really looking forward to Climbing In Heels because one of my sons worked for a Hollywood talent agency for a while. This story was supposed to focus on three women who climbed their way up in such an agency in the 1980s when it was still very much a “boys’ club.” The book seems to be semi-autobiographical, as the author became a very successful agent herself. Alas, this was incredibly disjointed and I lost interest pretty quickly. The three main characters don’t even interact with each other until about 40% into the book. Instead we get a lot of backstory as it jumps around from Beanie to Mercedes/Millicent to Ella.

I was able to bounce between the ebook version and the audiobook version, ably narrated by Stephanie Németh-Parker. It was not the narrator’s fault that I just couldn’t get invested in these characters or their story.

Thank you to St. Martin’s Press and NetGalley for the opportunity to read a review copy of this book and to Macmillan Audio and NetGalley for the opportunity to listen to a review copy of this audiobook. All opinions are my own.
Profile Image for Stephanie.
425 reviews122 followers
June 18, 2025
Climbing in Heels by Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas had the premise that was so great in theory: pre- Weinstein, where men could slap a woman in the behind at work and it would be acceptable. Women in Hollywood would be taken advantage of (still happens!) thinking that they would be promoted in the rankings at their jobs, often didn’t happen and sometimes they were fired after they made accusations. This reminded me of one of my favorite 80s movies Working Girl with Melanie Griffith. I am an 80s girl through and through so when the initial premise of this book came out, I was excited to hear all of the names and faces, of this semi-autobiographical book by Goldsmith-Thomas, who is a seasoned Hollywood producer herself.

While I loved Beanie - the main character , she worked hard, found holes where she could snake her way in to specific positions, I felt the characters and plotting was rushed. It was as if it lacked heart, and instead things just “happened”, because we need to see how the next scenes were going to play out. No true character development, no day to day job descriptions, no real connection with the audience and these people we are all supposed to root for.

The beginning starts out with three different characters, all whom have grown up in different lifestyles who want to work for a talent agency. I found there was no rhyme or reason for any of them, that there was so much going on, I ended up being bored. I didn’t care about any of their characters or their reasonings as to why they want to work in this difficult industry. Things just happened, well just because!

By midway through, I slogged through it to get to the end. apparently JLO is making into a series, which I hope will be more intriguing than this book.
Profile Image for Monte Price.
882 reviews2,633 followers
Read
January 1, 2025
Words fail to describe how disappointing I found this book to be...

I really thought I was going to enjoy this. I love books about Hollywood, particularly written by people with some connection to Hollywood. This was a mess though. The relationship of these three women felt flimsy. Beanie as a driving force didn't really do anything for me as a character. It felt like a lot of ideas but not a lot of execution. Now it's true that I read an ARC and maybe by the time a finished product comes out things will feel different.... not that I've seen that happen in the decade I've spent in the book community. This just felt like Goldsmith-Thomas is a well known person and was able to get a book deal about a life she had lived and knew about, but completely failed when it came to writing a compelling piece of fiction worth anyone's time or attention.
Profile Image for Angie Miale.
1,103 reviews144 followers
May 6, 2025
I was going to like this. The characters were great but the sexual content was so weird and cringy. The point of the book is that it is pre me-too and women are seen primarily as sexual beings to be used but that content was just awkward. I feel like this could have been better. I really did like the opening and how the stories intersected.
Profile Image for Elaine.
1,380 reviews36 followers
April 27, 2025
Sorry to say this was a DNF for me at 84%.
Although the premise sounded really good, I just couldn’t listen to it anymore.

Started out strong with a few women who went against the grain and really wanted to make something of themselves, even back in the 80’s when it was really all just a men’s/big boys club!

But, as the chapters went on (and on, and on….) I felt like it was all just name throwing and nonsense at this point….

And being as I have a bunch of books I actually do WANT to read, I’m DNF’ing this one…

2 ⭐️⭐️ for me.

Thanks so much to NetGalley and Macmillan Audio for an ARC of the audiobook. Wish I could’ve given a nicer review, but this one was just NOT for me….

Climbing in Heels by Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas and narrated nicely by Stephanie Nemeth-Parker.

Due to be released on 4/29/25.

You can find my reviews on: Goodreads,
Insta @BookReviews_with_emsr and/or
My Facebook Book Club: Book Reviews With Elaine

Thanks so much for reading! And if you ‘liked’ my review, please share with your friends, & click ‘LIKE’ below… And, let me know YOUR thoughts if you read it!! 📚⭐️

PS….limiting my review to Goodreads and NetGalley for this one.
Profile Image for Bernadette.
89 reviews11 followers
May 28, 2025
"Climbing in Heels" by Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas is a dazzling gem of a book that sparkles with wit, humor, and energy from start to finish. Goldsmith-Thomas' electrifying prose immediately draws readers into a world of luxury, glamour, and indulgence that's impossible to resist.

The characters are the true stars of the show, with the charming and unforgettable Beanie taking center stage. Every character, no matter how minor, is meticulously crafted with rich backstories that add depth and intrigue to the narrative. Goldsmith-Thomas' attention to detail, particularly with regards to fashion, is impeccable, making the world feel both extravagant and authentic.

The story is deliciously juicy and indulgent, reminiscent of an adult Gossip Girl, with the added bonus of real-life celebrity appearances that lend a clever, meta touch. And the ending ties everything together with a bow that's as satisfying as it is glamorous.

If you're in the mood for a character-driven romp that's as witty as it is chic, "Climbing in Heels" is the perfect escape. Goldsmith-Thomas has created a world that's as irresistible as it is dazzling, and I can't recommend it highly enough!

Thank you to Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas, St. Martin’s Press, and Edelweiss for sending me an eARC in exchange for an honest review.
Profile Image for Jess.
1,209 reviews58 followers
April 4, 2025
*Audiobook/ Paperback

“If it’s something to be hidden, it’s something to be stopped.”

“If their wives can’t look like that, then their sexitaries need to.”

“If they hear that you’re a college graduate they run the other way.”

“At some point we have to stand up for ourselves and stand together. Save it for the next girl he 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘢 𝘫𝘰𝘬𝘦 𝘰𝘯."

“She had never seen 2 men having sex, oral or otherwise, and except for the fact that one of them was her current lover, getting blown by her ex, she did think it was kind of hot.” 😂😂😂

“Beanie Rosen knew how to blow.”

Thanks to St. Martin’s Press and Macmillan Audio for my early #gifted copy of this book.

This is a chick-lit, historical fiction, character driven novel of feminism, badassery and seduction.

Weight shaming is an ongoing theme in this one. Mother’s who weight-shame their daughters deserve a special place in hell filled with only tasty cakes and milkshakes. Same goes for POS men who don’t value women and think acting like a pig is acceptable.

I loved all of fem-y life advice quotes throughout the book. That was one of my fav parts.

This book also talks about how back in the day women would seek to find a patron. I cannot imagine having to do that. These women adapted, taking the men’s interest in all things sexual and used it to their advantage, they used the men’s idiotic penis driven mentality and fear of smart women against them…climbing in heels and in spite of the men trying to hold them down. I’m so glad I don’t live in a time where I need to dumb myself down to secure employment.

This is the 2nd book lately that I’ve read that references one of my favorite children’s book, “Are You My Mother.” So I thought that was kinda cool. I had no idea what a mark that book left on the world.

I wasn’t around in the era of men dying from “pneumonia & strange flu” and it makes me sad that people were so frightened to be their most authentic selves back then and meanwhile so many other men were running amuck acting like total pigs treating women like sh!t and that was a-ok. Smh.

In a way it gave me Lessons In Chemistry vibes. It was the same but different.

New To Me Stuff: Yoko Ono “set up” the affair with May Pang and even gave her blessing!!!?
Profile Image for Elizabeth McFarland .
663 reviews64 followers
April 29, 2025
I went into this almost completely blind and ended up being blown away by it. Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas crafts a riveting debut novel filled with sex, drama, and corporate backstabbing. It was like a delicious and slightly tawdry soap opera.

Climbing In Heels delves into the world of 1980s Hollywood and tells the story of the women trying to make it in the male-dominated profession of being a talent agent.

Beanie Rosen was a phenomenal character and completely stood out from the other two featured characters. She worked tirelessly to show that she could be the best and seized every opportunity to prove her value. Ella Gaddy was easy to root for as she left her toxic family behind and forged a life for herself. Mercedes Baxter was a strong woman who did whatever it took to succeed, even if that made her unlikable most of the time.

This audiobook was absolutely captivating, and the narration was performed very well. If you're in the mood for a character-driven story that's smart and witty then this is the book for you.

Many thanks to Macmillan Audio for this ALC.
Profile Image for Dianne.
1,846 reviews158 followers
April 6, 2025
I think I would have given this book a solid 5 stars if there hadn't been so many secondary and tertiary characters who did nothing to advance the storyline. Another issue was that it bogged down so much in the middle that I felt I was reading a thousand-page book instead of a three-hundred-page book. There was really no character growth and just a bit too much descriptive nookie and cocaine for me. But then again, that was part of this era!

The story itself was unique in that I have never read anything about Hollywood agents or the women who broke into this industry and shattered the glass ceiling. Reading about the back-stabbing that was going on in this industry was attention-grabbing. Also, seeing in print how the men treated women during this time period will make the younger generation of women understand just what their mothers and grandmothers went through while trying to climb the corporate ladder.

It was interesting to see how this author wrote about this era and the breakout of women in all industries/careers. I came of age during this time period, so I could relate to Beanie, Ella, and Mercedes.

This was a worthy read. I think it will interest most book clubs because it raises many questions that will be worth discussing.


*ARC provided by the publisher St. Martins Press, the author, and NetGalley.
Profile Image for Debbie H.
186 reviews75 followers
March 14, 2025
3.5 ⭐️ I thoroughly enjoyed this story of three young secretaries in the 1980’s riding up through the ranks in the Light talent agency to become talent agents.

The story was a realistic telling of women breaking the glass ceiling in the male dominated entertainment agency business. Loved the characters of Beanie Rosen, Ella Gaddy, and Mercedes Baxter, each trying to reinvent themselves in a cutthroat world.

Well written and engaging, it fell off a little towards the middle, but the ending was very surprising and satisfying.

Thank you NetGalley and St Martin’s Press for the eARC in exchange for my honest review
Profile Image for Jenny (Readingwhilemynailsdry).
146 reviews4 followers
December 20, 2024
A debut novel that is smart, sassy and highly entertaining!! A great depiction of the grit and strength that was (and still is) required for a woman to get into the “boys club” of the entertainment industry. This is the story of three young women, who had set their sights on success and became powerhouses! Beginning in the ‘60’s continuing to the mid 90’s, regardless of what was said about them along the way, they’ve created opportunities for themselves, they played the system, hoping the system wouldn’t play them, and I loved every minute of it!

Their journey was cutthroat. What a woman had to endure to attempt to climb a ladder that was predominately controlled by men was crushing, but these three women knew how to work it. They were a force to be reckoned with individually…and together, even stronger. Although this is fiction, it’s relatable – “sexitaries”?! …need I say more?! We’ve all heard the stories…

When success becomes the only objective, everyone will do what they must. This means betrayal, lies and manipulation…do friendships and love mean anything? Do these strong willed women become the monsters they are trying to fight?!

This was energetic, captivating, and spicy, I really enjoyed it! This is the first novel by film and TV producer, Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas, and I hope it is not her last! Well done!!

I won this in a Goodreads giveaway! Thank-you to Goodreads and St. Martin’s Press for the ARC and to Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas for writing it!!
1,950 reviews51 followers
February 18, 2025

This is a fun but crazy novel about women in industry who are dying to get ahead and will do whatever it takes to get ahead whether it's blackmail, extortion, seduction, or restructuring. They are headstrong and determined and though often friends, they will stop at nothing to prove it's a woman's world as well as men's!
Thanks to NetGalley for this ARC!
Profile Image for Christine M in Texas (stamperlady50).
2,004 reviews261 followers
April 1, 2025
Climbing in Heels
By: Elaine Goldsmith- Thomas
Pub date
Publisher

4👠👠👠👠

A witty and entertaining debut novel. Hollywood in the 80’s was wild and the shows were fun.
👠
We follow three secretaries at the hottest agency. Beanie, Mercedes and Ella are fun characters who each have their unique challenges/strengths and do it all in heels. They come from different backgrounds which make this story extra lively.
👠
Sex, spice, drugs, glamour and power are all explored which each handles differently.
👠
Thank you Netgalley and MacMillian Audio for the advanced audio. The narrators captured the characters perfectly.
#climbinginheels, #macaudio2025, #elainegoldsmiththomas, #stamperlady50
Profile Image for Courtney.
449 reviews34 followers
May 15, 2025
3.5 stars

This was a fun foray into the world of a Hollywood agency in the 1980s when sexism was a standard. I enjoyed how each character was a strong female with her own story. My only critique was the story was a bit too drawn out.

Thank you Wednesday Publishing for my complimentary copy.
Profile Image for Luna ꪆৎ.
241 reviews5 followers
August 8, 2025
Dutch version here, English version below

4 🌟

Allereerst, dankjewel HarperCollins Holland voor het in Nederland vertaalde recensie-exemplaar van dit boek!

Ik ben geobsedeerd. Ik wist vanaf het moment dat ik zag dat fans van Daisy Jones and the six dit geweldig zouden vinden, dat dit fantastisch zou zijn.

Het verhaal gaat natuurlijk over hoe Beanie agent wordt en hoe zij de top bereikt, maar wat ik het beste vind van dit boek/verhaal zijn de personages. Ik hou echt van hoe de personages zijn geschreven en hoe de auteur, Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas, ervoor zorgt dat je echt om de personages gaat geven. Neem als voorbeeld Mercedes: in het begin lees je hoe zij is geworden wie zij is en hoe ze later in Beanie's perspectief een soort van villain rol krijgt, maar ik bleef sympathie voor haar voelen.

De enige reden waarom ik dit niet de volle 5 sterren geef, is omdat het verhaal in het midden een beetje plat viel. Het werd uiteindelijk wel beter, dus dat maakte het zeker de moeite waard.

Over het algemeen heb ik dit met veel plezier gelezen, en net zoals ze al zeiden, weet ik dat fans van Daisy Jones and the six dit geweldig zullen vinden.


English version here

4🌟

First of all, thank you to HarperCollins Holland for the Dutch translated review copy of this book!

I'm obsessed. I knew from the moment that I saw that fans of Daisy Jones and the Six would love this, that this was going to be amazing.

The story is, of course, about how Beanie becomes an agent and reaches the top, but what I like best about this book/story is the characters. I really like how the characters are written and how the author, Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas, makes you really care about the characters. take Mercedes as an example, in the beginning you read how she became who she is and how she later gets a kind of villain role in beanie's perspective, I continued to feel a sympathy for her.

The only reason I'm not giving this the full 5 stars is that the story fell a bit flat in the middle. It did pick up at the ending, so that definitely made it worth it.

Overall, I really enjoyed reading this, and just like they said, I know that fans of Daisy Jones and the Six will love this.
Profile Image for Zibby Owens.
Author 8 books24.3k followers
June 23, 2025
This debut novel follows three ambitious secretaries—Beanie Rosen, Mercedes Baxter, and Ella Gaddy—as they climb their way to the top of Hollywood's most exclusive talent agency in the 1980s. Set against the backdrop of a male-dominated industry where women were expected to serve rather than lead, this fictional tale explores friendship amidst betrayal, survival, and the cost of ambition. As these women navigate LA and its "boys' club" culture, some discover they have become the very monsters who once oppressed them. A rollicking story of sex, drugs, and power with all the shoulder pads a woman needs to succeed.

This book completely transported me to the wild world of 80s Hollywood agency life. What struck me most was how Goldsmith-Thomas captures that decade's brand of female ambition, where you are simultaneously fighting the system and learning to work within it. I loved how she does not shy away from showing these women's flaws—Beanie's desperation for validation really got under my skin in the best way. The mother-daughter dynamics throughout felt so authentic—and painful. With all three fighting to get to the top, the tension becomes absolutely addictive. Goldsmith-Thomas writes with such specificity about agency politics that I felt like I was there. If you are looking for a beach read, this one is a winner.

To listen to my interview with the author, go to my podcast at: https://zibbymedia.com/blogs/transcri...
Profile Image for Heather Bixby.
113 reviews6 followers
April 28, 2025
2.5 ⭐️

I wanted to love this, but it was just meh for me.

The book follows three main characters as they do just about anything to rise in their careers at a Hollywood agency.

The book follows Beanie, Mercedes, and Ella from their childhoods into adulthood. Because the book spans from the 60s to the 90s, it felt like it dragged on in the beginning and then sped up toward the end. I didn’t really feel connected to any character except Beanie, so I think just focusing on two female characters would have made this stronger.

While I love and respect that the author was an actual Hollywood agent who rose to the top in her own right, I feel like the book characters made sudden and at times super outlandish moves in order to advance their careers. We also didn’t always get to see the immediate after effects of these decisions, which made them feel even more random. The ending felt super contrived and did not deliver the payoff I was expecting.

Many thanks to NetGalley and Macmillan Audio for an advanced copy of this audiobook.
41 reviews1 follower
September 16, 2025
So I picked up this book because it was reminding me of Taylor Jenkins Reed and I love her. It said on the cover that this book had the same vibe. Also the cover was really cool.

This book has 3 main characters. They are all introduced in the first chapters but there is no structure. There are different timelines, the characters change names, the chapters are short and change quickly between characters. I WAS LOST.

Honestly had a hard time keeping up. AND THEN there are so many side characters introduced. I felt super lost and confused. Half way through the book I had no clue who was who and what had happened before.

Such a same because the writing was really good and the storylines were pretty okay. Some storylines were a bit out there and should have not been there.

Very disappointing and just frustrating because I really would have loved this book if it didn’t have so many characters.
Profile Image for Debby Voordenhout.
99 reviews
November 13, 2025
3,5 ⭐️ Waar ik echt veel slechte recensies lees genoot ik eigenlijk best wel van dit boek. Drie jonge vrouwen die als secretaresse in de jaren ’80 hun weg omhoog werken in een agency voor Hollywood sterren. Echt wel een mannenwereld met allerlei machtsspelletjes, waarbij je vooral over Beanie en Ella leest hoe ze zich weten staande te houden en proberen de top te bereiken in een wereld waarbij mannen vrouwen echt niet toe willen laten in the men’s club. Het boek leest lekker, wel veel personages die er eigenlijk niet zoveel mee te maken hebben, dus daar moet je een beetje overheen lezen. Ik las ergens een beetje een mix van The devil wears Prada en Sex and the city en dat klopt wel.
Profile Image for Brandon Calley.
190 reviews
May 8, 2025
A book with so much promise, but ultimately was a little disappointing. The beginning was great, and I was excited to dive into the lives of the three main characters. The character development was meh, and there were too many tangential and irrelevant details for me throughout that distracted from what could have been three really impactful characters. Loved that the author is a former agent who represented some big names. I enjoyed watching the women claw their way to the top of Hollywood and breaking thru the glass ceiling, I just think it wasn’t super for me I guess.
1 review1 follower
October 8, 2024
I was lucky to receive an advance copy of CLIMBING IN HEELS by Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas and I absolutely friggin loved it. I rarely leave review’s - but this was an exception. I had to. These characters are delicious and flawed and funny and brilliant and you will love watching them, negotiate, strategize and climb their way to their dreams in 1980’s Hollywood.

Valley of the dolls meets Evelyn Hugo, I honestly could not put CLIMBING IN HEELS down.

Abracadabra I loved it I loved it. #iambeanie
1 review
October 8, 2024
I was fortunate enough to receive an advanced copy of Climbing in Heels and I couldn’t put it down.
It is a debut novel by the talented author Elaine Goldsmith Thomas, and I must say, it was an exhilarating journey from start to finish.

From the very first page, I was captivated by the originality of the plot. Beanie weaves a narrative that defies conventional tropes, taking readers on a thrilling ride through a world inside the Sylvan Light agency. The premise itself is refreshing, exploring themes of identity, sacrifice, and the power of perseverance in a manner that deeply resonates as a female in a boys club.

The characters in climbing are incredibly well-drawn, each with their own distinct voices and arcs. I found myself emotionally invested in their journeys, rooting for their triumphs and feeling their struggles as if they were my own. I was addicted to learning more about the characters and never wanted the book to end. Goldsmith-Thomas’ ability to create relatable yet complex characters is a testament to her talent as a writer.
19 reviews
September 16, 2025
I enjoyed this book more than I thought I would. It was fun, but also important for women, I think. I stayed entertained the whole way through. My only complaint was there were too many names and it could get confusing at times. I get why the names were important but sometimes it felt like “a lot.”
Profile Image for Teresa.
178 reviews15 followers
December 16, 2024
I was fortunate to win this ARC from Goodreads Giveaways. The subject matter was one that I had not known much about and this was an enlightening telling of the fast-paced lifestyle of agents in the 80’s.
Profile Image for Kim.
22 reviews
January 23, 2025
I received this book as a Goodreads giveaway. I was disappointed in this book. No real character development. I felt that there was a lot of Hollywood name dropping and that I was supposed to be impressed…I wasn’t.
Profile Image for Rose.
18 reviews
June 23, 2025
this was very underwhelming. it had so much potential. somehow, a story with so many characters, lacked depth. the writing was not bad, but the storytelling was, and at times things got ridiculous. i also hated the way beanie died. just very mid and disappointing.
Profile Image for Marta Block.
530 reviews13 followers
August 19, 2025
Moved through several decades of women trying to make their way into the misogynistic world of being an agent for Hollywood stars. Lots (too many) sexual favors and poor choices and bending rules led to several women climbing the ladder - in actual heels.
Profile Image for Marie B..
723 reviews11 followers
May 4, 2025
DNF at 20%. Not sure how anyone can enjoy a story about toxic relationship between a mother and the child she abandons and subsequent teenage child becoming the side piece of a married man. The storyline is just too gross to stomach. Thank you, NetGalley for an advanced copy and the opportunity to provide an honest review.
28 reviews
June 9, 2025
This was so fun to read! Most of the book takes place in the 80’s, you can imagine the outfits. Crazy how women were treated back then. I hope they make this into a tv show.
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