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Kes neid jõuaks lahuta

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Alice ja Mad otsustavad abielluda.
Jah jah jah, nad armastavad teineteist.
Ei ei ei, nad ei ole armunud.
Nad on lahutamatud lapsepõlvesõbrad ja nende otsuse taga on soov võimaldada Madile Prantsuse kodakondsus, samuti trots immigratsioonipoliitika uute tuulte vastu nullindate teise poole Prantsusmaal. Alice’i vaimukate meenutuste kaudu avaneb lugejale kahe noore inimese ühine Suur Rassismilugu, aga ka lugu piirideta sõprusest. „Kes neid jõuaks lahuta“ on keeruliste valikute ette sunnitud põlvkonna manifest ja prantsuse uuema kirjanduse ühe võimsaima naishääle, Alice Zeniteri (snd 1986) teine romaan.

Raamatu lõpus on tõlkija Maria Esko intervjuu autoriga, mis valgustab romaani tausta ja autori loomingulisi ajendeid.

136 pages, Paperback

First published March 3, 2010

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297 people want to read

About the author

Alice Zeniter

36 books324 followers
Alice Zeniter is a French novelist, translator, scriptwriter, dramatist and director.

She has won a Prix Renaudot young adult award for her third novel, Juste avant l'Oubli, and a Prix Goncourt young adult for her fourth novel, L'Art de Perdre.

Zeniter published her first novel, Deux moins un égal zéro, at the age of 16. Her second novel, Jusque dans nos bras, was published in 2010 and translated in English as Take This Man.

Her latest novel, L'Art de Perdre, won multiple prizes and awards.

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5 stars
103 (32%)
4 stars
137 (43%)
3 stars
67 (21%)
2 stars
9 (2%)
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 36 reviews
212 reviews35 followers
January 30, 2025
See on lugu, mis räägib ühekorraga kahest noorest inimesest ja tervest Prantsusmaast.
Alice ja Mad, Mad ja Alice on lapsepõlvest peale parimad sõbrad. Mad on väga andekas ja tal läheb koolis väha hästi. Tal on ainukt üks suur puudus - ta ei ole prantslane (whatever that means), tal ei ole Prantsusmaa kodakondsust. Ta on malilane (see kõlab nagu laul). Migratsiooniseaduste karminedes juba enne Sarkozy valitsusaega satub Madi tulevik Prantsusmaal aina suurema löögi alla. Ka siis see juhtub - ta palub Alice’il endaga abielluda, et nelja aasta pärast kodakondsus saada.
Alice ütleb jah ja see raamat koosnebki tema sisemonoloogidest jahhist abiellumiseni. Lugeja õpib noort naist päris hästi tundma. Ja no kui vahel ikka öeldakse, et kunst ei pea olema poliitiline, siis siin on poliitikat nii et kuku pikali! Erinevalt leigetest eestlastest on prantslased poliitiliselt vägagi angažeeritud ja mõistavad suurepäraselt,kuidas selline või tollene valitsus nende elu mõjutavad.

Igatahes 12 punkti Alice Zeniterile ja Mariale selle raamatu tõlkimise eest.
Profile Image for Gregor Kulla.
Author 6 books115 followers
August 23, 2024
meeldis, aga ma lihtsalt ei saanud vist aru ja kui tõele au anda siis stress ja mured fiktiivabielu pärast ei liiguta mind nagu üldse. ja siis, et ajastukontekst, okei, aga ikkagi on rõve olla kui heteroseksuaalne monogaamne suhe on vaikimisi ainus võimalus ja selles isegi ei kahelda. ma mõtlen häda, et fiktiivabielu tõttu ei saa teisi mehi/naisi sebida nagu??? think bigger sister, aga jälle, tegelikult meeldis
Profile Image for Peeter Talvistu.
207 reviews14 followers
July 28, 2024
Maybe a 4.5

The introductory chapter reads like an update version of the "Trainspotting" opening monologue, while another tirade in the middle of the book is on par with Edward Norton's scathing rebuttal of the society in "25th Hour" (a film that is sadly overlooked). I am not sure if I am completely sold on the form of the narrative (the beginning as the end, the switching between the timeframes, etc), but the picture of France in the course of about twenty years is definitely eye-opening. I read the book as part of the "Loomingu Raamatukogu", which publishes a new paperbacks every month (mostly translation of world literature; they can be acquired at news stands and can also be sent directly to your mailbox if you have a subscription), and the timing of this publication is spot-on: right before the opening of the Paris Olympic Games and amidst an increasingly fervent discussion about immigration. Seeing all of this from a different point of view (and maybe from the perspective of a more optimistic era) is something we must all welcome.

Very recommended!

LR: Väga hea tõlge!!!!
654 reviews5 followers
February 2, 2020

Troisième roman d'Alice Zeniter que je lis. Je l'ai découverte avec L'art de perdre que j'ai beaucoup aimé et j'ai donc cherché d'autres livres de cet auteur. Déçue par Juste avant l'oubli (je n'ai pas adhéré du tout à l'intrigue policière), j'ai retrouvé avec plaisir le style Zeniter avec Jusque dans nos bras.
C'est l'histoire d'une profonde amitié entre Alice et Mad, alias Amadou, d'origine malienne.. Ensemble ils ont tout partagé depuis les bancs de la maternelle puis au collège et au lycée, les premières révoltes adolescentes, les premiers engagements politiques, la « Grande Histoire du Racisme » et ce qu'elle implique dans leurs vies personnelles.
C'est aussi le portrait de la génération des actuels trentenaires, avec humour et légèreté malgré la gravité du sujet (le mariage blanc).
Un roman qui se lit vite et avec beaucoup de plaisir.
Profile Image for Maris.
118 reviews2 followers
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August 9, 2024
Vahva, süüdimatu ja vahetu sissejuhatus ühe põlvkonna kogemustesse sõprusega, popkultuuriga, poliitikaga ja rassiteooriaga Prantsusmaal. Lugu on kirja pandud koos mälestustega lapsepõlvest vaheldumisi sündmustega, mis juthuvad, kui nad otsustavad viisa pärast abielluda, kaasa arvatud keerulised tunded sõprussuhte osas segatuna kokku hirmust teha midagi seadusevastast, mis võib mõlemale halvasti lõppeda. Teatud suhestamine ka sündmustega, mil Prantsusmaal toimusid olulised poliitilised muutused, ja kuidas peategelased tundsid, nagu sellega lõpeks maailm, ning pidutsesid vastavalt.
Profile Image for Nele.
91 reviews
October 6, 2024
Zeniteri kirjutamisstiil on võrratu. Otsekohene, kaunis, kujundlik, humoorikas, aus, täis viiteid kirjandusele, poliitikale, ajaloole, täis päris inimesi, kes on immigratsioonipoliitika rataste vahel, kes kasvavad suureks, kellel on aated, unistused ja reaalsus.
Profile Image for Nanou.
241 reviews5 followers
April 1, 2016
Parce qu’il ne supporte plus les formalités du renouvellement régulier de son titre de séjour, Mad, un jeune malien, a décidé de tout faire pour obtenir la nationalité française. Mais ce n’est pas si facile et en désespoir de cause, il demande à Alice, la narratrice, qu’il connait depuis l’école maternelle, de l’épouser, pas pour un mariage d’amour mais pour un mariage blanc. Alice a accepté, parce que Mad est son meilleur ami, et parce qu’elle est révoltée par le racisme ambiant, par les mesures prises par le gouvernement et en particulier par l’action de Brice Hortefeu, parce qu’elle est contre la mise en place du fichier Edvige. Elle a accepté parce qu’elle se sent aussi coupable de la chance qu’elle a, elle qui est la fille d’une mère normande et d’un père algérien, et qui n’a, malgré sa moitié africaine, aucun souci à se faire sur ses droits à vivre en France. Mais dire oui à Mad, c’est facile, encore faut-il se préparer aux interrogatoires des services officiels qui veulent vérifier les motivations d’un tel couple mixte. C’est un vrai parcours de combattant sur lequel s’engagent Alice et Mad, essayant d’imaginer les questions qui pourraient leur être posées

Voilà rapidement résumé le fil rouge d’un livre enthousiaste et militant. Dans une langue puissante et moderne, Alice Zeniter revisite son enfance et son adolescence, raconte son désir de marquer sa différence, son envie d’être vue comme une algérienne, provoquant l’incompréhension de son père, qui lui, ne souhaite que s’intégrer dans la société française et pensait y avoir réussi. Avec Mad et l’Arabesque, sa copine du lycée, Alice forme un trio énergique et engagé, qui accompagne les combats de son époque et s’interroge sur sa place et son avenir dans la société, face au racisme et à l'intolérance. Alors que la solution du mariage blanc avec Mad s’impose très vite, Alice éprouve malgré tout des réticences, au fur et à mesure que la date approche. Que se passera-t-il si elle rencontre l’amour alors qu’elle est mariée à Mad ? Même s’ils sont d’accord pour divorcer dès que ce sera possible, ce mariage est d’une certaine façon un renoncement à la liberté et Alice doute, même encore sur le perron de la mairie.

J’ai été un peu agacée au début de cette lecture par la langue utilisée par Alice Zeniter, ce parler jeune où je ne me retrouvais pas vraiment, différence de génération oblige ! Mais très vite, j’ai été emportée par les thèmes de fond de cette histoire. Comme l’héroïne de ce roman porte le même nom que son auteur et que les évènements évoqués sont très ancrés dans l’actualité, on pourrait croire qu’il s’agit là d’une histoire vraie et ça sonne d’ailleurs comme du vécu. C’est tout le talent d’Alice Zeniter qui s’exprime dans ce roman, qu’elle a écrit à vingt-trois ans, preuve d’une force de conviction et d’un appétit de vivre revigorants.
Profile Image for David Hebblethwaite.
345 reviews245 followers
August 12, 2012
Alice Zeniter was 23 when she published Jusque dans nos bras (now superbly translated from the French by Alison Anderson as Take This Man), and it really feels as though she has captured in it something of contemporary life for her generation. We meet Zeniter’s protagonist (also named Alice Zeniter) as she is about to marry her Malian childhood friend Amadou (‘Mad’) Traoré – a marriage brought about because it will prevent Mad from being deported under new immigration laws, despite his having lived in France most of his life. The novel’s chapters alternate between the lead-up to the wedding and Alice’s various encounters with racism.

Take This Man begins with a brilliant passage listing the touchstones of Alice’s generation as she sees them; it captures a mixture of optimism and anxiety which carries through to the main novel, where one senses that Alice is never quite sure whether marrying Mad is really the right thing to do (her first-person narration frequently lapses into addressing herself as ‘you’, emphasising that dislocation). Zeniter traces the complexities of Alice’s situation – her father may be from Algeria, but she appears white, and discovers that her experiences are not the same as Mad’s – and charts her growing political awareness, all in fizzing prose.
476 reviews8 followers
February 20, 2016
An intelligent exploration of friendship, politics and race, but I found it a bit too unpolished to really enjoy.
Profile Image for Enora.
153 reviews16 followers
June 5, 2023
Écriture 4
Intrigue 4
Personnages 5
Impact 4
Divertissement 4
Profile Image for Cherrie.
407 reviews1 follower
December 24, 2020
Got this book from my Page 1 subscription and even though I thought it was a strange pick at first, I ended up appreciating the rambling run-ons and oscillating trains-of-thought. (I think this book is supposed to be a memoir bc the main character is also named Alice Zeniter?) I realize that I haven’t read many books by French authors and so I enjoyed reading Zeniter’s realization (back in the early 2000s) that France is not the left-winged country she once thought it to be — it also is eerily similar to my perspective on America before November 2016. Zeniter tells the story of why marrying her best friend in order to give him French citizenship is a good idea while tackling the intersections of issues of race, citizenship, friendship, and marriage in this novel/memoir - and it’s done well. Book gives a glimpse into French politics and also just French culture in general — idk the best way to describe it but even through the translated French, there’s a lingering nonchalance that Americans lack and that makes the book inherently French.
Profile Image for Andres "Ande" Jakovlev.
Author 2 books24 followers
August 13, 2024
Lugesin seda raamatut ajal, kui Pariisi olümpiamängud olid just alagamas ja alanud. Ja tekkis põnev paralleel - kui OM avatseremoonia üritas rõhutada sallivust igasuguste ühiskonnagruppide suhtes, siis raamatust vaatas vastu hoopis teistsugune Pariis. Vihkamisest, rassismist ja bürokraatiast tulvil Pariis.

Kuna raamatu ilmumisest on juba omajagu aega möödas, siis arvasin, et praeguseks on olukord kõvasti muutunud. Aga ei, raamatu järelsõnas (eelmise aasta lõpus tehtud intervjuus) tõdeb autor, et tegelikult on olukord veel hullemaks muutunud.

Olen Alice Zeniteriga samast põlvkonnast, aastajagu noorem, nii et väga kerge oli samastuda. Meie lapse- ja nooruspõlve keskkonnad olid tõesti hämmastavalt sarnased. Äratundmist oli mõnusalt palju.

Aga jättes kogu taustaloo jms kõrvale - minu jaoks oli tegu eelkõige romaaniga sõprusest. Alice ja Madi suhe ja suhtlus oli usutav ja vahva. Tõesti hea raamat sõprusest - mis, nii uskumatuna kui see ka ei tunduks, võib tõesti mehe ja naise vahel olla.
32 reviews
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March 14, 2025
hea-aus-vahetu sissevaade kõigele sellele, mis Prantsusmaa ühiskonna läikivate väärtuste kaane all päriselt keeb. autofiktsioon, mis ei ürita olla iseendast suurem. ja täielik ood sõprusele!


/…Kui sa järele mõtled, on Madi pidev olemasolu sinu jaoks täiesti enesestmõistetav. Kui välja arvata aastad, mis ta Malis oli, pole su elus olnud ühtegi hetke, mille ta oleks üle lasknud. Ta on sinu jaoks alati olemas olnud. Nii et see lubadus, mille pead linnaosavalitsuses andma, lubadus teda armastada haiguses ja vanaduses, tervises, vaesuses ja rikkuses, see pole midagi selle kõrval, et Mad on olnud su sõber nii Normandias kui ka Pariisis, dressides, õhtukleidis, joobes, pohmas, edukates konkurssides, läbikukkunud armulugudes, kirjastajatega suheldes, külma käes bussi oodates, puhkusel Hispaania palavuses, sinu isetehtud soengute koleduses ja esimese push-up´i ilus, päiksetõusuni kestvates öödes…/


Profile Image for Kitty.
1,647 reviews109 followers
July 25, 2024
mind vb selle raamatu sisu ei kõnetanud sajaprotsendiliselt (äkki sellepärast, et me napilt ikkagi ei ole autoriga samast põlvkonnast), aga see, kuidas ta oli kirja pandud, kõnetas ja haaras küll. lõpuks oligi päris mõtlemapanev lugu sellest, mida sa siis oled valmis tegema, kui su riigi ja rahva poliitika su parima sõbra vastu kuri ja kiuslik on.

ja kuigi loo rassismiosa on kohati päris nukker, siis on kuidagi hingekosutav lugeda sellisest suurest sõprusest, nagu selle loo peategelaste kolmikul omavahel on.
Profile Image for Sille.
351 reviews
August 22, 2024
"Ma olen põlvkonnast, kelle elu tuleb kehvem kui tema vanematel, ma olen põlvkonnast, kes pole sündinud internetiga, aga on sellega kasvanud, sellega küpseks saanud, mul on internetiga nii armastav suhe/.../Ma olen geek´ide ja otsku´de põlvkonnast, kes ei oska enam käsitsi kirjutada ja kes avastab enda jaoks e-raamatu./.../ Ma olen kliimasoojenemise põlvkonnast ning jääkarude ja jääkilpide tulevikust rääkivate nutuste dokfilmide põlvkonnast..."
Ja kuigi see lugu on kirja pandud kerges toonis, siis seda enam tundsin piinlikkust valge nahaga inimeste pärast.
26 reviews
February 22, 2025
Lugesin seda raamatuklubi raames ning usun, et see on selleks ideaalne. On palju asju mille üle arutleda. Oma elu jooksul pole ma rassismi teemaga nii paljukokku puutunud ning oli põnev lugeda sissevaadet inimese pähe, kelle jaoks see on igapäevaelu. Alice`i kirjutamis stiil oli toores ning mulle nii meeldis see. Oligi kirjutatud nii nagu noored omavahel räägivad. See kõik mõjus väga siirana. Elasin tohutult kaasa nende sõbragrupi ettevõtmistele ja seiklustele. Oli mõnus ja mõtlemapanev lugemiskogemus.
Profile Image for Hava Kuks.
160 reviews5 followers
September 27, 2025
Mulle väga meeldis. Sulnis elus keel, tunnete virrvarr sõprus ja noorus. Ainult et mina kahtlen ka poiste ja tüdrukute sõpruse võimalikkuses. Mulle meeldib Zeniter'i suhtumine ärkvelolekusse, huvisse, kaasarääkimisse, sõnavõttu - õige kah, kui oled tasa, siis ju lepid ja ei taha ju
Nii palju äratundmisi, nii palju valu ja abitust, mis ei ole minu oma, aga on ikka ka ja ma ei saa aru, miks peaks keegi, miks rassism, Suur Rassismilugu
Profile Image for Mae Lender.
Author 25 books158 followers
July 22, 2024
Selle teksti juures meeldis mulle nii palju asju, millest ma tahaks rääkida, aga samas kas ikka peab pikalt heietama, ei pea ju, ehk piisab sellest, kui sa usud, et jah jah jah ma tahaksin selle raamatu praegu kohe ära süüa, aga ma ei tee seda, sest noh, ma pean selle siiski Kärdlasse raamatukokku tagasi viima.
36 reviews
November 5, 2024
I really enjoyed it.
As a reader from a country, where we don't have this type of immigration problems, it was a very interesting reading and it was possible to understand immigrants better. Also, I enjoyed the author's laughter through tears writing style. It was very catchy and easy to follow.
28 reviews1 follower
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October 22, 2024
Hakatus oli minu jaoks lõpmata igav, puine, meelevaldne. Umbes 26. lehekülje paiku muutub tekst loetavaks, kohati täitsa säravaks. Teos tervikuna vaimustust ei tekitanud.
12 reviews1 follower
March 8, 2025
Une histoire d'amitié, d'amour, de politique très touchante et très drôle : je conseille !
Profile Image for Yvann S.
309 reviews16 followers
May 26, 2012
“We had the vague impression we could hear the planes flying over Baghdad and the bombs dropping.”

Because the inner cover says it better than I can: Today, Alice is going to marry Mad. They have been friends since childhood. They have played together, laughed together, cried together, and taken stands against injustice together. Today, Alice is going to marry Mad – not because after years of friendship they have suddenly become romantically involved, but because Alice is white and French, and Mad is neither. Despite having spent almost his entire life in France, Mad, born in Mali, is now being threatened with deportation. Today, Alice is going to marry Mad – because getting married seems the only possible solution to Mad’s predicament. Today, Alice is going to marry Mad, and for Alice this steps marks the end of adolescence, the end of her years of innocence and the start of adulthood.

The minute I finished Take This Man, I had to email the publisher (Daniela at Europa Editions) because I was so in love with the book and had to tell someone before I got bogged down in fair value adjustments on acquisition of subsidiaries again…

While there is obviously a strong focus on French immigration politics (which seems to be even more draconian than the current UK immigration politics), Zeniter writes several long passages on the zeitgeist, what it is to be young and passionate in the early years of the twenty-first century.

“My generation saw order restored after May ’68, my generation tried to imitate May ’68, my generation starts daydreaming as soon as May comes around, my generation doesn’t have a clue where these classes that are supposed to be struggling might have gone to.”

It’s so fresh and unusual and rebellious. Of course, the big question is: is it autobiographical? On the one hand – the protagonist has the author’s name; on the other hand, four years from the wedding in 2009 has not yet elapsed, and it would be terribly risky for her to confess all in this novel! A bit of internet searching suggests that it is not autobiographical, so I’m intrigued as to the author’s use of her own name for the protagonist.

I was surprised by the protagonist’s hesitance about marrying her friend to keep him in France – she’s so vehement about her own multi-racial identity and taking the fight to the fascist pigs, but she’s really a frightened girl, scared of the police, scared of shackling herself to someone she loves as a friend but not as a husband, scared of her parents’ reaction. It made her much deeper as a character than I had anticipated.
Profile Image for Granny Sebestyen.
497 reviews23 followers
December 29, 2020
"Jusque dans nos bras" d'Alice Zeniter (192p)
Ed. Le Livre de Poche
Bonjour les fous de lectures....
Second roman que je lis de cette auteure.
Alice, la narratrice, se prépare à faire un mariage blanc avec son ami de toujours, le malien Mad menacé d'explusion.
L'occasion pour elle de se plonger dans ses souvenirs de jeunesse, ses expériences d'adolescente, ses engagements, ses révoltes et son entrée dans la vie adulte.
Alice se souvient du racisme qui la poursuit depuis sa petite enfance, de ses amitiés.
Parsemé de nombreux éléments autobiographiques, ce récit est parsemé d'humour, d'autodérision et est écrit dans un style vif, rageur, incisif.
Style "rap"?
Style " Djeune"?
Il débute par 5 pages qui sont une longue énumération des évènements marquant la fin du XX° siècle et le début du XXI°, résumé de la génération de l'auteure, véritable cri du coeur de ces jeunes adultes qui ont bien du mal à trouver leur place dansd ce monde bien plus complexe que celui de leurs parents.
Des énumérations.. on en aura un paquet tout le long de ce court roman-qualifié d'autofiction par l'auteure elle-même... au point que cela en devient légèrement lassant.
Ce qui devait être le thème principal du livre - le mariage blanc et le racisme- se retrouve un peu plongé dans les oubliettes et est peu développé face à cette logorrhée épuisante.
Même si la lecture est fluide, comme lors de ma première expérience, je reste un peu sur ma fin avec ce livre
Un peu trop facile ?
Un peu trop cliché ?
Un peu trop "je n'accroche pas"
Livre que je classerai plus comme une jolie bluette à faire découvrir à nos adolescents.
Alice Zeniter est également l'auteure de " Sombre dimanche" prix du livre Inter 2013 et de "L'art de perdre" ( toujours dans ma Pal) qui a reçu le prix Goncourt des lycéens 2017
Ma note: 3/5
Profile Image for bermudianabroad.
685 reviews6 followers
June 23, 2020
Very energetic and young and smart. The kind of book I'd want to give a thoughtful teenager and while that seems like faint praise, I came away feeling like this was well suited to YA fiction. Heavy topics are discussed here, racial politics, immigration, identity, nationality. Both Alice and Mad are fully realized characters, flawed at times and confused about their place in the world. Both are drawn with real emotional sensitivity and Zeniter does a good job exploring the idea of what friendship is, and how it is expressed between people.
Something to consider: pov jumps around like crazy, sometimes in first person, sometimes in second. Often in the same paragraph. Makes the narrative tricky to follow at times. If you're not a fan of stream of conciousness then stay away because the whole story is exactly that. It makes for an authentic teenage voice, but can be exhausting to keep up with.

(France)
10 reviews
August 22, 2012
Taking into consideration that there is obviously some beauty of the language lost in translation, I wasn't thrilled with the novel, but I did like this story enough to pass it along to a friend. Zeniter does a wonderful job at capturing some of the large social issues playing out in France, but her characters seemed a bit flat. The inner conflicts of the protagonist seemed a bit trite at points, but the plot was pretty engaging overall. I think she really captured the essence of what true friendship is and Zeniter shows incredible talent for a young writer, however she is just that... young. Her writing lacks the experience necessary to really take this novel to the next level.
Profile Image for Victoria .
88 reviews9 followers
April 12, 2013
Interesting analysis of race and identity in post 9/11 France that really seems to capture what it is to be young in modern France, grappling with these issues. The short chapters at times read like one long facebook status adding a sense of urgency and a feeling of being in the moment and being impulsive and without consequences in the way that everyone is as a teenager. Sometimes it felt a bit flat, and I think that is probably something to do with the translation, after all language is essential to an analysis of identity and I would love to be able to read it in the original French.
2,205 reviews
July 30, 2013
Alice Zeniter's voice in this book reminds me bit of early Zaidie Smith - the youth, the energy, the vivid descriptions of the current state of immigrant issues in a multiracial society (in France, though, not Britain), the identity politics of the young.

Alice the character is wonderfully revealing of her hopes, her fears and her loyalties. She's both strong and vulnerable, rebellious and scared. It's quite a balancing act and very well doen.

The translation by Alison Anderson, who also translated Elegance of the Hedgehog, is terrific.
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