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Yıkanan Kadınlar
Muhteşem ve kolay kolay unutulacak nitelikte olmayan bu kitap, bugünkü modern Çin’in geçirdiği evrelere de ciddi ışık tutar nitelikte. Yıkanan Kadınlar, sıkıntılar içinde geçen bir dönem karşısında, kadınlar arasındaki güçlü dostluğun etkili ve çok güzel bir portresi.
397 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 2000
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 70 reviews
May 7, 2017
It’s difficult to point out the exact moment when a moving, thought-provoking story turned into a pretentious mess. Unfortunately that’s exactly what I experienced while reading The Bathing Women. Such a pity! At first I was surprised by rather low rating of Tie Ning’s book but now I can relate to frustrated readers.
Three things that especially got on my nerves:
1. In my opinion the novel is too long. At times I had a feeling that Tie Ning was assigned a set number of pages to write and having literary material for fewer she struggled hard to meet the requirements. The result? Repetitions, for example a remark about the standard of living in China which according to Tie Ning is similar to the United States nowadays. Plus a depressing image of emigrant’s life. Besides, some parts of the book are boring, eg. the passage about Balthus, which probably was supposed to make the novel more ambitious but to me sounded a bit artificial.
2. Neglecting Youyou. Such a pity she didn’t play a more important role in the story.
3. I really prefer when authors trust reader’s imagination and explicit, detailed sex scenes is not something I enjoy in literature. Here they happened a few times. I’m aware of the importance of the symbol of nakedness in this book, implied by the title also, but sometimes I was overwhelmed with details of Tiao and Fei's erotic life.
My troubles with The Bathing Women mentioned above were irritating, no doubt about that, but I’m going to follow Tie Ning’s literary career with a great interest, as she revealed some abilities I treasure most. She can create unforgettable scenes. The one with a teacher accused and ridiculed by students still makes me shiver. Besides, Tie Ning turned out to be a subtle literary psychologist, very good at weaving characters. For instance the way she depicted Tiao’s parents and their conflict is really impressive.
The Bathing Women show the ambivalence of human nature. There are both good and bad things about people. Maybe it’s obvious but some writers tend to forget about it, pushing their heroes into “the good” and “the bad” category, nothing in between. Tie Ning definitely can see the complexity and a wide spectrum of human nature colours.
Three things that especially got on my nerves:
1. In my opinion the novel is too long. At times I had a feeling that Tie Ning was assigned a set number of pages to write and having literary material for fewer she struggled hard to meet the requirements. The result? Repetitions, for example a remark about the standard of living in China which according to Tie Ning is similar to the United States nowadays. Plus a depressing image of emigrant’s life. Besides, some parts of the book are boring, eg. the passage about Balthus, which probably was supposed to make the novel more ambitious but to me sounded a bit artificial.
2. Neglecting Youyou. Such a pity she didn’t play a more important role in the story.
3. I really prefer when authors trust reader’s imagination and explicit, detailed sex scenes is not something I enjoy in literature. Here they happened a few times. I’m aware of the importance of the symbol of nakedness in this book, implied by the title also, but sometimes I was overwhelmed with details of Tiao and Fei's erotic life.
My troubles with The Bathing Women mentioned above were irritating, no doubt about that, but I’m going to follow Tie Ning’s literary career with a great interest, as she revealed some abilities I treasure most. She can create unforgettable scenes. The one with a teacher accused and ridiculed by students still makes me shiver. Besides, Tie Ning turned out to be a subtle literary psychologist, very good at weaving characters. For instance the way she depicted Tiao’s parents and their conflict is really impressive.
The Bathing Women show the ambivalence of human nature. There are both good and bad things about people. Maybe it’s obvious but some writers tend to forget about it, pushing their heroes into “the good” and “the bad” category, nothing in between. Tie Ning definitely can see the complexity and a wide spectrum of human nature colours.
dnf
November 1, 2025DNF po 171 stronach. Odpadam, nie mam przyjemności z lektury i nie interesuje mnie, co wydarzy się dalej.
November 14, 2012
This book would have been beautiful had I known how to read in Chinese. I read a lot of translated books with no problems, the translation of this book (by both Chinese and American translators was just a mess.I almost put it down, but I am glad I didn't because it was such a lovely and bittersweet story. I would jump at the chance to read more from this talented author if she got new translators. I know Chinese is a tough language--but there were 2 translators not one. Also, the title of the book has absolutely no reference to any part of the book. Perhaps they meant to write "The Bejing Women?????" I hope to read more by tie ning.
Xie Xie
(thank you)
Xie Xie
(thank you)
May 7, 2015
Five stars on this site doesn't mean to me "the best book" but that the book was "amazing". I was indeed amazed by this book. The characters have such passions. They love intensely and hate intensely. The plot's coincidences and the extravagant descriptions of love making, which would usually not impress me favorably, were carried off as part of the whole scheme which is totally overboard.
I enjoy reading books about non-Western countries. Recently I read books by Indian and African authors. This book was about life in China from the time of the Cultural Revolution to the period of economic advancement. Wasn't the Cultural Revolution itself totally extreme and unbelievable? So all the things that happen in the story are extreme just as the reality was extreme.
It meant something to me that the author is a woman. It caused me to trust that she knew of what she wrote about a woman's emotions.
I enjoy reading books about non-Western countries. Recently I read books by Indian and African authors. This book was about life in China from the time of the Cultural Revolution to the period of economic advancement. Wasn't the Cultural Revolution itself totally extreme and unbelievable? So all the things that happen in the story are extreme just as the reality was extreme.
It meant something to me that the author is a woman. It caused me to trust that she knew of what she wrote about a woman's emotions.
October 3, 2013
Review in HNR December 2012
The Bathing Women by Tie Ning
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Four women come of age amid Mao’s Cultural Revolution in a small village near Beijing. Taio is a children’s book editor while her sister Fan lives in America; both are daughters of Wu and Yixun. Fei balances a life of pleasure and danger, while YouYou dreams of becoming a chef. Wu and Yixun are sent to the River Reed labor farm, where their lives are difficult and lonely. Wu becomes sick with symptoms of dizziness and frequent syncope. She is sent home to rest and seek a diagnosis. Dr. Tang determines her symptoms are psychological, not physiological. Even though she loves Yixun, she abhors the farm. Her decision made, she devises a plan to stay home permanently. This requires the in-depth adulterous services of Dr. Tang. One day Tiao meets Dr. Tang’s niece, Fei. Without provocation, Fei slaps Tiao in the face, and calls her mother Wu a whore. Fei’s own mother is dead. She was denounced at a public gathering, humiliated and forced to submit to an odd but disgusting punishment ironically witnessed by Tiao. Fan and Tiao are inseparable as children and Tiao assumes the big sister role as protector. About a year after Wu returns from the farm, she gives birth to another daughter, named Quan. Quan is beautiful and adored by everyone. Taio feels uncomfortable and strange with her. When Fei insinuates that she looks like her uncle, Tiao’s suspicions rise.
The novel does not flow linearly but rather is pieced together randomly through scattered snippets, flashbacks and memories that interconnect the four women. For this reason it is a challenging book to wrap one’s head around. That said, however, it is a literary gem of poetic prose that unmasks a complex story of jealousy, adultery, deception and acceptance. The Bathing Women is an emotionally poignant novel by Tie Ning.
The Bathing Women by Tie Ning
Find & buy on
Four women come of age amid Mao’s Cultural Revolution in a small village near Beijing. Taio is a children’s book editor while her sister Fan lives in America; both are daughters of Wu and Yixun. Fei balances a life of pleasure and danger, while YouYou dreams of becoming a chef. Wu and Yixun are sent to the River Reed labor farm, where their lives are difficult and lonely. Wu becomes sick with symptoms of dizziness and frequent syncope. She is sent home to rest and seek a diagnosis. Dr. Tang determines her symptoms are psychological, not physiological. Even though she loves Yixun, she abhors the farm. Her decision made, she devises a plan to stay home permanently. This requires the in-depth adulterous services of Dr. Tang. One day Tiao meets Dr. Tang’s niece, Fei. Without provocation, Fei slaps Tiao in the face, and calls her mother Wu a whore. Fei’s own mother is dead. She was denounced at a public gathering, humiliated and forced to submit to an odd but disgusting punishment ironically witnessed by Tiao. Fan and Tiao are inseparable as children and Tiao assumes the big sister role as protector. About a year after Wu returns from the farm, she gives birth to another daughter, named Quan. Quan is beautiful and adored by everyone. Taio feels uncomfortable and strange with her. When Fei insinuates that she looks like her uncle, Tiao’s suspicions rise.
The novel does not flow linearly but rather is pieced together randomly through scattered snippets, flashbacks and memories that interconnect the four women. For this reason it is a challenging book to wrap one’s head around. That said, however, it is a literary gem of poetic prose that unmasks a complex story of jealousy, adultery, deception and acceptance. The Bathing Women is an emotionally poignant novel by Tie Ning.
January 11, 2013
Enjoyable story
• I was interested in reading this novel which was originally published in 2000, and was translated in several different languages but it was only in 2012 that it was translated in English. Also interested in reading this book as it looked at contemporary Chinese women and was written for a Chinese audience and not necessarily for the western world.
• After plodding through the first half (or else I just got use to the writing style) for me the second half was more engaging and flowed more smoothly.
• I am not sure if it was the translation that caused some of the awkwardness of the language in the beginning, but the characterizations were very well done.
• It was interesting reading a “chick lit/women’s fiction” novel from a Chinese pov – shows how universal many stories are – how young women want to be admired by men, want to be loved, learn how to maneuver in their societies. But what this story unique for me was that the timeline within the story was during the repressive re-education period and the beginning of the movement into the modern China that has become an economic world power.
• This is not necessarily a political book but the politics of the time is present and integral part of the story.
• I was interested in reading this novel which was originally published in 2000, and was translated in several different languages but it was only in 2012 that it was translated in English. Also interested in reading this book as it looked at contemporary Chinese women and was written for a Chinese audience and not necessarily for the western world.
• After plodding through the first half (or else I just got use to the writing style) for me the second half was more engaging and flowed more smoothly.
• I am not sure if it was the translation that caused some of the awkwardness of the language in the beginning, but the characterizations were very well done.
• It was interesting reading a “chick lit/women’s fiction” novel from a Chinese pov – shows how universal many stories are – how young women want to be admired by men, want to be loved, learn how to maneuver in their societies. But what this story unique for me was that the timeline within the story was during the repressive re-education period and the beginning of the movement into the modern China that has become an economic world power.
• This is not necessarily a political book but the politics of the time is present and integral part of the story.
July 7, 2016
Miejscami melodramatyczna, miejscami bolesna, miejscami przewrażliwiona, niemniej od początku do końca pełna kłębiących się kobiecych emocji, powieść „Kobiety w kąpieli” stanowi perłę na tle zdominowanej przez mężczyzn chińskiej literatury. Tie Ning wie, jak wywołać w czytelniku skrajne uczucia. Umiejętnie penetruje dusze swoich bohaterek, ukazując ich rozerwanie pomiędzy tym, co było i tym, co jest.
Intymna i delikatna, bezkompromisowa i okrutna, oddaje wszystko to, kim staje się człowiek, gdy polityka odciśnie piętno na jego przeznaczeniu. To historia zdystansowana, miejscami całkowicie obca zachodniemu czytelnikowi, a jednocześnie paradoksalnie niezwykle bliska, bo dotykająca tego, co najistotniejsze – pragnienia ziszczenia marzeń i ucieczki przed nieodzownym cierpieniem.
Intymna i delikatna, bezkompromisowa i okrutna, oddaje wszystko to, kim staje się człowiek, gdy polityka odciśnie piętno na jego przeznaczeniu. To historia zdystansowana, miejscami całkowicie obca zachodniemu czytelnikowi, a jednocześnie paradoksalnie niezwykle bliska, bo dotykająca tego, co najistotniejsze – pragnienia ziszczenia marzeń i ucieczki przed nieodzownym cierpieniem.
May 6, 2015
As I finished the book, I had this urge to slap Tiao and shout "You are a fuckin idiot!"
December 12, 2021
Not sure if it is a bad translation or just a bad book.
July 6, 2015
The novel focuses most concretely on the life of Tiao, a girl whose childhood takes place in the shadow of the Cultural Revolution and who then experiences China’s transformation into a shape-shifting economy – of “Socialism with Chinese characteristics” in the 1990s. Tiao and her sister Fan move from Beijing with their parents at the time of the cultural revolution. Her parents are forced to become farm labourers and the two young children live by themselves in Fu’an. It’s just one example of the many social experiments that have played out in China over the last 60 years. The mother becomes ill and after a spell in hospital, she commences a relationship with her treating doctor and eventually they have a child. I don’t want to give away more of the plot – what happens next is one of those events that casts a shadow over the lives of the two sisters for ever.
Tiao meets Fei – a classic bad girl and for a while, the novel focuses on her life as well, until the author seems to lose interest. The best metaphor I have for the experience of reading this novel is that it’s a bit like a few people have had a go at knitting a jumper – sometimes the tension and focus is just right and sometimes, it is baggy and shapeless.
In the middle of the novel, Tiao spends some time thinking about the work of Balthus, the painter and she muses: “Balthus used traditionally concrete visual language, and the objects he chose to work with couldn’t have been more ordinary. He didn’t want to find his materials in the surreal, and he made use of reality in an honest, straightforward way. His reality seemed superficial, but was actually profound, seemed like one thing but was actually another, had the appearance of being ordinary but laid snares everywhere… The intimate distance and familiar strangeness that his painting communicated were his contribution to art.” I think this is where Tie Ning was trying to head with this book but it doesn’t quite work. At times she loses the intensity of focus that Balthus achieves in his painting. Years go by without consequence and then there are detailed descriptions of days. An important character dies and the death is mentioned almost as an afterthought.
It does take me to China though – I think the jarring narrative elements help this. And I liked the exploration of the messy and competitive sibling elements and the warring parents of Tiao and Fan. These parts felt very real. This has been a best seller in China (apparently) and I think that this is interesting too.
The title is interesting. I thought it might refer to a Balthus painting but I can’t find one with that name though it would be likely territory for him. I went to a beautiful exhibition in Paris recently titled La Toilette: The Birth of Privacy” (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/23/art...). This showed the evolution in representations of women who are bathing and grooming. The focus is intimate, private and revealing. The paintings are mostly quite beautiful. The women are usually alone. There is space and a meditative quality. In some ways, the novel is like the scene in a bathroom but the light is fluorescent in its intensity and exposure, not unkind but all the flaws are there for the viewer (or reader). A bit like being in modern China really.
Tiao meets Fei – a classic bad girl and for a while, the novel focuses on her life as well, until the author seems to lose interest. The best metaphor I have for the experience of reading this novel is that it’s a bit like a few people have had a go at knitting a jumper – sometimes the tension and focus is just right and sometimes, it is baggy and shapeless.
In the middle of the novel, Tiao spends some time thinking about the work of Balthus, the painter and she muses: “Balthus used traditionally concrete visual language, and the objects he chose to work with couldn’t have been more ordinary. He didn’t want to find his materials in the surreal, and he made use of reality in an honest, straightforward way. His reality seemed superficial, but was actually profound, seemed like one thing but was actually another, had the appearance of being ordinary but laid snares everywhere… The intimate distance and familiar strangeness that his painting communicated were his contribution to art.” I think this is where Tie Ning was trying to head with this book but it doesn’t quite work. At times she loses the intensity of focus that Balthus achieves in his painting. Years go by without consequence and then there are detailed descriptions of days. An important character dies and the death is mentioned almost as an afterthought.
It does take me to China though – I think the jarring narrative elements help this. And I liked the exploration of the messy and competitive sibling elements and the warring parents of Tiao and Fan. These parts felt very real. This has been a best seller in China (apparently) and I think that this is interesting too.
The title is interesting. I thought it might refer to a Balthus painting but I can’t find one with that name though it would be likely territory for him. I went to a beautiful exhibition in Paris recently titled La Toilette: The Birth of Privacy” (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/23/art...). This showed the evolution in representations of women who are bathing and grooming. The focus is intimate, private and revealing. The paintings are mostly quite beautiful. The women are usually alone. There is space and a meditative quality. In some ways, the novel is like the scene in a bathroom but the light is fluorescent in its intensity and exposure, not unkind but all the flaws are there for the viewer (or reader). A bit like being in modern China really.
August 3, 2015
benim için hem yazarla hem de çin edebiyatı ile ilk tanışmaydı,memnun oldum :)romanın orjinal dilinden mi yoksa ingilizceden mi çevrildiğine dair herhangi biripucuna ulaşamadım ve zaman zaman çeviriye dair olduğunu düşündüğüm kopukluklar yaşadım..Devrim ideali peşinde yüksek eğitim seviyesindeki insanların çalışma kamplarında tuğla taşımaları ve evli çiftlerin bile kadın erkek olarak ayrı koğuşlarda kalmaları, onlar kampta çalışırken çocuklarının evlerinde tek başına kalmaları, okuldan sıgınak kazmaya gitmeleri,yaşamaya çalışmaları ve bunun son derece normal karşılanması; kamp koşullarına dayanamayıp eve kaçan anne; önce iki sonra üç kız kardeş, okul, arkadaşlıklar,sorunlu ilişkiler,yasaklar, yasaklar- makyaj,perma,saç uzatmak..-kaçışlar..kadının iç dünyasına ait bir roman gibiyken toplumsal değişimi de adım adım yaşatan bir portre çıkıyor karşınıza..Çiao baş karakter olarak oldukça farklı bir çizgide roman boyunca, sık sık gerçek bir karakterden esinlenildiğini düşündüm okurken, çünkü kurgu içinde çok sırıtan kararlar ve değişkler yaşıyor neredeyse romana yakıştıramıyorsunuz
Başkan Mao nun Tiananmen Kulesi’nde aşağı bakıp buralar gelecekte hep baca olmalı demesiyle bacadan atlayarak intihar eden karakter arasındaki ironi benim hayalim miydi bilemiyorum. Gelişimin göstergesi olarak görülen naylon poşetler de manidar geldi.
Kitabı bitirdiğimde aklımdaki soru kitabın isim seçimi idi, neden acaba "yıkanan kadınlar"? bilgisi olan varsa öğrenmek isterim.
Başkan Mao nun Tiananmen Kulesi’nde aşağı bakıp buralar gelecekte hep baca olmalı demesiyle bacadan atlayarak intihar eden karakter arasındaki ironi benim hayalim miydi bilemiyorum. Gelişimin göstergesi olarak görülen naylon poşetler de manidar geldi.
Kitabı bitirdiğimde aklımdaki soru kitabın isim seçimi idi, neden acaba "yıkanan kadınlar"? bilgisi olan varsa öğrenmek isterim.
April 12, 2020
Rating: 1 star!!
Review:
I was given this book as a gift for Christmas BUT i did NOT love it!! It was hard to get into, the changing of language was very annoying to me which is why i rated it 1 star.
I defiantely wont be reading more books by Tie Ning in the future!!
Review:
I was given this book as a gift for Christmas BUT i did NOT love it!! It was hard to get into, the changing of language was very annoying to me which is why i rated it 1 star.
I defiantely wont be reading more books by Tie Ning in the future!!
December 4, 2024
żmudne i żenujące.
May 25, 2017
I was really looking forward to reading this book and was so disappointed when I did. As this book is a translation there were many instances of thoughts and repetitious words. When reading English we really don't need -- I know, I know, I know three times in the same sentence. This resulted in making the story awkward to follow.
Read
October 26, 2012I received this book as a participant in the Good Reads First Read program. I loved the realistic relationship between these characters. The pain that makes each one fragile while teaching strength to survive. The secrets and betrayal because no one believed there was another option. The cultural differences of the time and place.
Fei broke my heart at every turn.
Tiaos unrealistic belief that it was her job to make things rite for everyone.
Fans inability to take any responsibility.
I look forward to more of Tie Nings novels.
Fei broke my heart at every turn.
Tiaos unrealistic belief that it was her job to make things rite for everyone.
Fans inability to take any responsibility.
I look forward to more of Tie Nings novels.
Read
July 31, 2016I hated this book. Seriously, it was all over the place. It started out really wonderfully but I think that this book was originally written in Chinese and translated and the translation just didn't work for an American reader. The ending was the strangest ending I've ever read and didn't connect with the rest of the book. My book club felt the same way.
April 4, 2016
Couldn't finish this poorly written, boring book.
August 28, 2022
I want to mention the Polish translation done by Anna Gralak. Although the book wasn’t translated directly from Chinese, but English, which I normally don’t support, the translation was brilliant and I believe it was what made the book enjoyable to read.
The story itself, however, was really upsetting. It talks about trauma cycles and self sabotage. Even though it was meant to be about women, we can tell the characters’ entire lives are mostly ruled by men. The book wasn’t so much about “women”, but rather the characters’ extreme emotions. If we take Fan for example, her behavior was so childish that a lot of the dialogues between her and Tiao were just ridiculous.
There are quite a few graphic sex scenes. At first I didn’t mind, but once we got to Tiao and Chen Zai being together, the descriptions got so “poetic” that I couldn’t help but cringe.
The Cultural Revolution is present, but it only seems to be the core of the older generation’s (namely, Wu and Yixun’s) problems. Tie Ning — as an author promoted by the Communist Party — criticized the Revolution, but also used it to emphasize the “positive change” in the 80s/90s (“more Western products on the market, lots of new restaurants opening, students get opportunities abroad”)…
The differences between “the West” aka the US and “the East” aka China shown in the book were extremely superficial so I won’t get into detail.
When it comes to the ending, I’ve seen a lot of frustrated reviews which I personally don’t really get. The story was frustrating for me as well but I didn’t really see any happy future for Tiao and Chen Zai anyway. What I disliked about the ending, however, was when the narrator compared Wu and Meicheng to each other, saying they’re both “women who tried to live up to men’s expectations”. Yes, except one of them is a cheater and a bad parent living in guilt and the other is a victim that can’t seem to move on from a relationship that was a mistake.
Overall, the book wasn’t bad but it’s not a must-read. I expected way more having seen Oe Kenzaburo’s positive review.
The story itself, however, was really upsetting. It talks about trauma cycles and self sabotage. Even though it was meant to be about women, we can tell the characters’ entire lives are mostly ruled by men. The book wasn’t so much about “women”, but rather the characters’ extreme emotions. If we take Fan for example, her behavior was so childish that a lot of the dialogues between her and Tiao were just ridiculous.
There are quite a few graphic sex scenes. At first I didn’t mind, but once we got to Tiao and Chen Zai being together, the descriptions got so “poetic” that I couldn’t help but cringe.
The Cultural Revolution is present, but it only seems to be the core of the older generation’s (namely, Wu and Yixun’s) problems. Tie Ning — as an author promoted by the Communist Party — criticized the Revolution, but also used it to emphasize the “positive change” in the 80s/90s (“more Western products on the market, lots of new restaurants opening, students get opportunities abroad”)…
The differences between “the West” aka the US and “the East” aka China shown in the book were extremely superficial so I won’t get into detail.
When it comes to the ending, I’ve seen a lot of frustrated reviews which I personally don’t really get. The story was frustrating for me as well but I didn’t really see any happy future for Tiao and Chen Zai anyway. What I disliked about the ending, however, was when the narrator compared Wu and Meicheng to each other, saying they’re both “women who tried to live up to men’s expectations”. Yes, except one of them is a cheater and a bad parent living in guilt and the other is a victim that can’t seem to move on from a relationship that was a mistake.
Overall, the book wasn’t bad but it’s not a must-read. I expected way more having seen Oe Kenzaburo’s positive review.
May 20, 2024
I haven't had much luck with Chinese novels in translation. Even when I was pulled in by the story, the prose has often seemed flat and uninspired, overly declarative and matter of fact. I've wondered if this could be a general characteristic of the transition between languages. Having finished Tie Ning's best selling saga The Bathing Women, I now know it's not.
The complexity of the characters in this novel is mirrored in the language. The prose is beautiful, nuanced, bordering on lyrical. There are even some elements of magical realism, something I'd never expect from the practical, materialistic Chinese. Emotions manifest themselves in the physical world. The boundary between feeling and acting is hair-thin.
I've seen this book described as "feminist". I'm not sure I'd use that label, but Tie Ning definitely wants to explore the challenges of being a woman, and how those change as one ages. From the blurb, which focuses on the story's beginnings during the Cultural Revolution, one might expect this to be a historical novel, but in truth it's not. It's more psychological and spiritual.
One might criticize the plot as contrived. There are more connections and coincidences than you'd expect in the real world. I see these as part of the literary structure. For better or worse, this is most definitely a literary novel, a book willing to sacrifice some realism in the pursuit of symmetry.
I'm having a difficult time describing The Bathing Women, even though I loved it. Read it, and you might understand why.
The complexity of the characters in this novel is mirrored in the language. The prose is beautiful, nuanced, bordering on lyrical. There are even some elements of magical realism, something I'd never expect from the practical, materialistic Chinese. Emotions manifest themselves in the physical world. The boundary between feeling and acting is hair-thin.
I've seen this book described as "feminist". I'm not sure I'd use that label, but Tie Ning definitely wants to explore the challenges of being a woman, and how those change as one ages. From the blurb, which focuses on the story's beginnings during the Cultural Revolution, one might expect this to be a historical novel, but in truth it's not. It's more psychological and spiritual.
One might criticize the plot as contrived. There are more connections and coincidences than you'd expect in the real world. I see these as part of the literary structure. For better or worse, this is most definitely a literary novel, a book willing to sacrifice some realism in the pursuit of symmetry.
I'm having a difficult time describing The Bathing Women, even though I loved it. Read it, and you might understand why.
May 19, 2024
欲望驱动行为。章妩非常渴望一张软床，于是尝试用身体交换一张病假条，她成功了，在交换中还满足了性欲，所以过程很是愉悦：“她的双手紧紧抱住他的腰，她的双腿高高盘起双脚紧紧钩住他的两胯，她不让他停歇不让他停歇，她还在动作之中把枕头垫在了臀下，她要他更深入更深入，也许那已不是深入，那是从她体内整个儿地穿过，那是把她的身体整个儿地穿透”。软床加高潮，简直是双喜临门。代价是对丈夫、女儿们的愧疚。这愧疚并不很深，说不清是源自伤害了家人的内疚，还是传统道德观的束缚。换个年代，章妩也许不会选择结婚生孩子。
书里的每个人都活在传统道德观里。唐菲，像是破产版的章妩，她的性解放之路，与其说是释放欲望，不如说是无奈的资源置换。作为没爸没妈寄人篱下的私生女，她要过得舒适，活得精致，在匮乏年代的选择很有限，以身体换资源几乎是唯一的道路。她对自己的漂亮和魅力了如指掌，使用起来如鱼得水。面对如潮的嫉妒、孤立和侮辱，她必须盛气凌人，我行我素，破罐破摔。可悲的是她骨子里是同意那些人的，所以她从不接吻，所以一旦有“从良”的机会，她就奋不顾身地跳进火坑。
性爱合一的美好，是这本书宣传的正面价值。交换意味越浓，性体验越差，所以没感情的身体愉悦，远比不上身心合一的如胶似漆。所以，最长最浓烈的性爱描写留给了尹小跳。“她被他亲得停止了发抖，她被他亲得活泛起来张狂起来，当他把头滑向她的腿间，用舌尖顶住那里所有的柔嫩和滑润时，她忍不住发出了一声短促而又凄厉的嚎叫。那确是一种嚎叫，不是人类的呻吟，是雌性动物那没有装饰过的欢呼和叫好。那时她的脸也一定是狰狞的，就像所有好到极致的人脸一样。那就是美，是人所不愿承认的美。他就在她的嚎叫声中霸道而又勇猛地闯入了她”。这是她和陈在积蓄了几十年的感情一朝爆发，天崩地裂。
一直都在的陈在是个梦幻般的存在，凝聚了女性视角的处男情结：一见钟情，不离不弃，非你莫属，最好还能功成名就。尹小跳一度被影视精英方兢忽悠得一愣一愣的，发展出一段纯情小姑娘和油腻老男人之间陈词滥调的虐恋。有趣的是，大肆坦白自己滥交的方兢其实阳痿，在和尹小跳初夜的时候恢复了功能。貌似位高权重的自恋老男人，在身体和精神上，都是需要小姑娘来拯救的。在这个世纪初的小说里，暖男完胜霸总。
三名女性角色性和感情的经历，展示了女性的拧巴和无奈。她们对性的渴望，被道德压制，潜意识里认为没有爱的性不会完美；另一方面在结构性的不平等局面里，身体成为她们一把烂牌里的王炸，打出去之后，自身又不断被道德感反噬。角色们性格和境遇不同，但在男女关系里，都是弱势、慕强的一方，希望被保护，被宠爱，或者更现实地，被交易。最文艺的尹小跳，自己不出马，也明示唐菲帮她性交易到一个出版社的职位。
小说对浩劫时代的控诉是比较复杂的。唐家姐弟的惨死是那个年代的特有悲剧，但对于方兢和尹亦寻，这种经过磨难的幸存者，又讽刺了他们受害者的优越感和顾影自怜。
那段姐妹见死不救的合谋，应该是塑造角色心理的重要事件，我觉得有些莫名其妙。如果没有这段儿，尹小跳会远离方兢，早些接受陈同吗？我觉着不会，也许对于她最终同样莫名其妙的放弃陈同构成个解释。至于尹小帆对姐姐变态般的嫉妒和攻击，早期出国人士的复杂心态，也不需要那段合谋作为铺垫。
小说里的男人们，除了理想化的陈在以外，都不大行，脆弱，自恋，虚伪，没担当。在欲望与社会道德的冲突里，付出代价的多是女人。唯有可怜的唐医生，光着屁股被赶着爬上了烟囱。也许，只有他在纵身一跃的前一刻，获得了内心的平静。
书里的每个人都活在传统道德观里。唐菲，像是破产版的章妩，她的性解放之路，与其说是释放欲望，不如说是无奈的资源置换。作为没爸没妈寄人篱下的私生女，她要过得舒适，活得精致，在匮乏年代的选择很有限，以身体换资源几乎是唯一的道路。她对自己的漂亮和魅力了如指掌，使用起来如鱼得水。面对如潮的嫉妒、孤立和侮辱，她必须盛气凌人，我行我素，破罐破摔。可悲的是她骨子里是同意那些人的，所以她从不接吻，所以一旦有“从良”的机会，她就奋不顾身地跳进火坑。
性爱合一的美好，是这本书宣传的正面价值。交换意味越浓，性体验越差，所以没感情的身体愉悦，远比不上身心合一的如胶似漆。所以，最长最浓烈的性爱描写留给了尹小跳。“她被他亲得停止了发抖，她被他亲得活泛起来张狂起来，当他把头滑向她的腿间，用舌尖顶住那里所有的柔嫩和滑润时，她忍不住发出了一声短促而又凄厉的嚎叫。那确是一种嚎叫，不是人类的呻吟，是雌性动物那没有装饰过的欢呼和叫好。那时她的脸也一定是狰狞的，就像所有好到极致的人脸一样。那就是美，是人所不愿承认的美。他就在她的嚎叫声中霸道而又勇猛地闯入了她”。这是她和陈在积蓄了几十年的感情一朝爆发，天崩地裂。
一直都在的陈在是个梦幻般的存在，凝聚了女性视角的处男情结：一见钟情，不离不弃，非你莫属，最好还能功成名就。尹小跳一度被影视精英方兢忽悠得一愣一愣的，发展出一段纯情小姑娘和油腻老男人之间陈词滥调的虐恋。有趣的是，大肆坦白自己滥交的方兢其实阳痿，在和尹小跳初夜的时候恢复了功能。貌似位高权重的自恋老男人，在身体和精神上，都是需要小姑娘来拯救的。在这个世纪初的小说里，暖男完胜霸总。
三名女性角色性和感情的经历，展示了女性的拧巴和无奈。她们对性的渴望，被道德压制，潜意识里认为没有爱的性不会完美；另一方面在结构性的不平等局面里，身体成为她们一把烂牌里的王炸，打出去之后，自身又不断被道德感反噬。角色们性格和境遇不同，但在男女关系里，都是弱势、慕强的一方，希望被保护，被宠爱，或者更现实地，被交易。最文艺的尹小跳，自己不出马，也明示唐菲帮她性交易到一个出版社的职位。
小说对浩劫时代的控诉是比较复杂的。唐家姐弟的惨死是那个年代的特有悲剧，但对于方兢和尹亦寻，这种经过磨难的幸存者，又讽刺了他们受害者的优越感和顾影自怜。
那段姐妹见死不救的合谋，应该是塑造角色心理的重要事件，我觉得有些莫名其妙。如果没有这段儿，尹小跳会远离方兢，早些接受陈同吗？我觉着不会，也许对于她最终同样莫名其妙的放弃陈同构成个解释。至于尹小帆对姐姐变态般的嫉妒和攻击，早期出国人士的复杂心态，也不需要那段合谋作为铺垫。
小说里的男人们，除了理想化的陈在以外，都不大行，脆弱，自恋，虚伪，没担当。在欲望与社会道德的冲突里，付出代价的多是女人。唯有可怜的唐医生，光着屁股被赶着爬上了烟囱。也许，只有他在纵身一跃的前一刻，获得了内心的平静。
July 18, 2024
昨天終於把《大浴女》看���了。這是一個非常漫長痛苦的閱讀過程（雖然只看了兩週多），看這本書的每一天都有過棄書的念頭，有時候看到某些再次重複的、累贅的敘述方式時，會有如鯁在喉的噁心感。對我而言，問題是：
1）對話語言。每一個人物說話的語氣、節奏都是一樣的。或許要一個作家寫出不一樣的節奏很難，但更嚴重的問題是這些角色想事情的方式和表達邏輯都大同小異，看到後面有作者自己跟自己說話的感覺。
2）對女性的單一刻畫。我知道這個故事有特定的時代背景，而我對這背景確實沒有很深刻的理解。女性有蓬勃的性慾很正常，個別女人很戀愛腦我也沒問題——但為什麼幾乎每個女性角色都像瘋了一樣找男人？尹小跳對方競那種奇怪的崇拜和縱容，萬美辰對陳在那種奮不顧身的癡心，尹小帆對小跳每一個男人的勾引，章妩莫名其妙地願意為唐醫生犧牲一切，雖然她好像也沒有很愛他⋯這些女人確實因為時代的原因遭受過心理創傷，但為什麼創傷的出口幾乎全是男人？一兩個可以，所有人都這樣就太噁心了。這些女人的許多動機也都讓人難以理解，缺乏連貫性。比如，尹小跳放棄陳在的情節在我看來既自私又自我感動。小說中出現惡人很正常，但小跳在作者的設定下並不是這樣的人，她一會兒又覺得陳在是她一輩子的真愛，一會兒又出自對萬美辰的憐憫（一個她才認識幾個月的人！）放棄這段可歌可泣的愛情，真的讓人無法共情，一頭霧水。
我多次覺得作者像個沒談過戀愛的中學生一樣，把故事裡所有的驅動都放在了戀愛和性上，但情節與情節中間的聯結很弱，導致讀出了許多讓我噁心的自我感動。不過可能那個年代的女人真的是那樣吧⋯
3）聒噪的語言。其實有些情節的構思還是很不錯的，覺得作者尤其擅長於設計一些彰顯道德和人際關係的複雜性的劇情，但當你想細細品味這設計的巧妙時，作者總是以過於聒噪的心理描述把這些情節的吸引力中和掉，像是怕你不知道她對人類的觀察有多細緻一樣。她並不給你體會角色的心理的空間，而是急著把所有的心理細節告訴你，這樣反而會減少我跟角色的共情，也減少我探索這本書的慾望。
這本小說對我而言的唯一亮點在於它的幾處情節，確實有種大時代的震撼感。出色的情節如下：
1）尹小荃的死。製造了一種倫理、道德上的混亂，彰顯出角色之間的關係、以及他們各自生活中的創傷。最妙的是製造了一團永遠不可能解開的家庭亂麻。
2）唐醫生的死。一個全裸著的男人爬煙囪的情境很有魅力。被捉姦人逼上了絕路這個情節，完全帶出了那個時代的荒唐和絕望。
3）章妩整容。章妩是我覺得作者唯一寫的好的角色。她在某程度上慵懶、縱慾、懦弱、不負責任，但又不算是個惡人。我覺得她心理的那種複雜性和毫無目的性，比起其他角色來更真實，更讓人絕望。她最後整容的描述確實是神來之筆，好像一個庸碌終生的人終於想做些什麼去改變一切，卻越陷越深。她與丈夫之間的那種爭吵和張力，我認為非常現實地帶出了中國式家庭中會出現的問題。
總而言之，我應該很久都不會再看鐵凝的小說了。我看過她一兩個講農村的短篇小說，都很精緻和優美，但她對都市和兩性題材的那種過度用力讓我生理不適。希望小女生看了不會盲目欣賞這種女性生活吧⋯
1）對話語言。每一個人物說話的語氣、節奏都是一樣的。或許要一個作家寫出不一樣的節奏很難，但更嚴重的問題是這些角色想事情的方式和表達邏輯都大同小異，看到後面有作者自己跟自己說話的感覺。
2）對女性的單一刻畫。我知道這個故事有特定的時代背景，而我對這背景確實沒有很深刻的理解。女性有蓬勃的性慾很正常，個別女人很戀愛腦我也沒問題——但為什麼幾乎每個女性角色都像瘋了一樣找男人？尹小跳對方競那種奇怪的崇拜和縱容，萬美辰對陳在那種奮不顧身的癡心，尹小帆對小跳每一個男人的勾引，章妩莫名其妙地願意為唐醫生犧牲一切，雖然她好像也沒有很愛他⋯這些女人確實因為時代的原因遭受過心理創傷，但為什麼創傷的出口幾乎全是男人？一兩個可以，所有人都這樣就太噁心了。這些女人的許多動機也都讓人難以理解，缺乏連貫性。比如，尹小跳放棄陳在的情節在我看來既自私又自我感動。小說中出現惡人很正常，但小跳在作者的設定下並不是這樣的人，她一會兒又覺得陳在是她一輩子的真愛，一會兒又出自對萬美辰的憐憫（一個她才認識幾個月的人！）放棄這段可歌可泣的愛情，真的讓人無法共情，一頭霧水。
我多次覺得作者像個沒談過戀愛的中學生一樣，把故事裡所有的驅動都放在了戀愛和性上，但情節與情節中間的聯結很弱，導致讀出了許多讓我噁心的自我感動。不過可能那個年代的女人真的是那樣吧⋯
3）聒噪的語言。其實有些情節的構思還是很不錯的，覺得作者尤其擅長於設計一些彰顯道德和人際關係的複雜性的劇情，但當你想細細品味這設計的巧妙時，作者總是以過於聒噪的心理描述把這些情節的吸引力中和掉，像是怕你不知道她對人類的觀察有多細緻一樣。她並不給你體會角色的心理的空間，而是急著把所有的心理細節告訴你，這樣反而會減少我跟角色的共情，也減少我探索這本書的慾望。
這本小說對我而言的唯一亮點在於它的幾處情節，確實有種大時代的震撼感。出色的情節如下：
1）尹小荃的死。製造了一種倫理、道德上的混亂，彰顯出角色之間的關係、以及他們各自生活中的創傷。最妙的是製造了一團永遠不可能解開的家庭亂麻。
2）唐醫生的死。一個全裸著的男人爬煙囪的情境很有魅力。被捉姦人逼上了絕路這個情節，完全帶出了那個時代的荒唐和絕望。
3）章妩整容。章妩是我覺得作者唯一寫的好的角色。她在某程度上慵懶、縱慾、懦弱、不負責任，但又不算是個惡人。我覺得她心理的那種複雜性和毫無目的性，比起其他角色來更真實，更讓人絕望。她最後整容的描述確實是神來之筆，好像一個庸碌終生的人終於想做些什麼去改變一切，卻越陷越深。她與丈夫之間的那種爭吵和張力，我認為非常現實地帶出了中國式家庭中會出現的問題。
總而言之，我應該很久都不會再看鐵凝的小說了。我看過她一兩個講農村的短篇小說，都很精緻和優美，但她對都市和兩性題材的那種過度用力讓我生理不適。希望小女生看了不會盲目欣賞這種女性生活吧⋯
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
July 19, 2021
There was an awful lot I liked about this book. I love epics that cover many years and many narrators, and this certainly delivered. We follow the characters through so much change in China, in the shadow of the Cultural Revolution and right up to consumerist, recent day China. The passions and tragedies of the characters remain constant, despite the change in times. I particularly liked Fei and Youyou (who I wish had featured more) and there were scenes of horrible cruelty that will remain with me a long time. I also liked how the tragic death of Quan so early on affected almost every moment in Tiao and indeed Fans lives thereafter, that scene so early on really dictates the tone of the novel. All I would say is it went on longer than necessary, the sex scene were awkward and I found the relationship between Chen Zai and Tiao just frustrating and didn't see much in Chen Zai that was interesting. This aside, I would recommend this book as an insight into the inner workings of women growing up in the ruins of a crippling regime in China.
April 8, 2018
I liked some aspects of this book, but it was not a tightly written story. I don't mind jumping back and forth between the present and the past, but if that bothers you, skip this one.
It was fascinating to learn more about the transition from the Cultural Revolution into contemporary China. The characters were all broken though, except for maybe one minor one. They all lived through difficult, dangerous times during the Cultural Revolution, but that was only part of what damaged most of them. The story is mostly about the lives of the adult children of two families, how their lives became intertwined while they were children growing up during the Cultural Revolution, and how certain choices and events damaged them and their relationships. Don't expect happy endings. None of the characters are particularly likeable or inspire empathy. Also, there are graphic sex scenes and some include masochistic behavior.
It was fascinating to learn more about the transition from the Cultural Revolution into contemporary China. The characters were all broken though, except for maybe one minor one. They all lived through difficult, dangerous times during the Cultural Revolution, but that was only part of what damaged most of them. The story is mostly about the lives of the adult children of two families, how their lives became intertwined while they were children growing up during the Cultural Revolution, and how certain choices and events damaged them and their relationships. Don't expect happy endings. None of the characters are particularly likeable or inspire empathy. Also, there are graphic sex scenes and some include masochistic behavior.
July 10, 2017
Sama nie wiem, co myśleć o tej książce. Czytało się ją dosyć dobrze. Nie zachwyciła mnie, ale niektóre fragmenty mnie intrygowały. Podobało mi się, że pięknie widoczne były na każdym kroku różnice kulturowe, które są dosyć znaczne w przypadku Chin i Europy czy USA. Naprawdę wiele ważnych spraw poruszała ta książka, ale jednak czegoś mi w niej zabrakło, żeby nazwać ją wybitną i polecać przyjaciołom na prawo i lewe. Niemniej, jeśli ktoś zechciałby po nią sięgnąć, to bynajmniej, nie będę zniechęcać - za to wręcz z niecierpliwością oczekiwać na opinię o książce.
Książkę przeczytałam w ramach akcji Bookathon Lato 2017 (Czytelniczy Maraton), jako książkę z kategorii: książka, która jest biografią, ponieważ w powieści zawarte są wątki autobiograficzne autorki. Poza tym, nada się ona również do kategorii książki, która porusza temat tabu (nie jeden!).
Książkę przeczytałam w ramach akcji Bookathon Lato 2017 (Czytelniczy Maraton), jako książkę z kategorii: książka, która jest biografią, ponieważ w powieści zawarte są wątki autobiograficzne autorki. Poza tym, nada się ona również do kategorii książki, która porusza temat tabu (nie jeden!).
December 13, 2020
I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to this book and say that the clunky, disjointed writing was the effect of a terrible translation. Some of the sentences were so terrible and the way the characters expressed their thoughts repetitively was cringey. The characters themselves were hard to like. It was like reading a book about children throwing one trantrum after another in adults bodies. The way they talked to each other and related to each other made me feel as though none of the characters had developed adult perspectives about the world and there was zero emotional depth. None of the characters were able to empathize or see past their own selfish, base needs. Perhaps that was a comment from the author about Revolutionary China? It was hard to tell and I think if it’s so hard to tell then it’s failed as a commentary.
July 21, 2019
Kobiety w kąpieli to ze wszech miar opowieść o kobietach. One są głównymi bohaterkami, to w okół nich kręci się świat powieści. Mężczyźni zaś grają bardzo umiarkowaną rolę w tej historii. Oczywiście są istotni, bo zajmują bardzo ważne miejsce w życiu bohaterek, ale nie są w stanie ich przyćmić. One bez nich nie byłyby tym, kim się stały, ale oni też niejako istnieją w powieści tylko na tyle, na ile ich życie splata się z życiem tych kobiet. To bardzo ciekawa perspektywa. Zupełnie odwrotna od typowego szablonu „kobieta jako dodatek do mężczyzny”. To dodatkowo ciekawa perspektywa jak na kraj, w którym mężczyzna ma dużo silniejszą pozycję od kobiety pod wieloma względami. Tu zaś mężczyzna poszukuje
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December 5, 2025
I never imagined I'd find a book that was so raw about what it's like, and been like, being a woman in China. I found so much insight into the psychology of these characters, and so many surprises about their decisions and the way their relationships became so gnarled and complicated.
There is a bit of repitition, and I think some of the writing comes across a bit stitled perhaps in interest of trying to stay faithful to the original language. But, overall, a great piece of historical fiction for some looking to understand the evolution of womanhood in China.
There is a bit of repitition, and I think some of the writing comes across a bit stitled perhaps in interest of trying to stay faithful to the original language. But, overall, a great piece of historical fiction for some looking to understand the evolution of womanhood in China.
March 3, 2021
Es un dramón, lo cual no necesariamente me desagrada, pero suelo interesarme más cuando los dramones no son tan serios, cuando hay una sensación de exageración intencional y juguetona.
No sé que tanto sea problema de la traducción o del libro en si pero me da la impresión de que había momentos que tenían lenguaje muy bello y se convirtieron en demasiado enredados o perdieron el ritmo. Aún así, si están en mood de drama creo que es una buena historia para intensear.
No sé que tanto sea problema de la traducción o del libro en si pero me da la impresión de que había momentos que tenían lenguaje muy bello y se convirtieron en demasiado enredados o perdieron el ritmo. Aún así, si están en mood de drama creo que es una buena historia para intensear.
January 20, 2019
This was an interesting novel about life after the revolution for three women who are connected by their involvement in a tragic event which impacts each in a different way. Normally, I love reading about life in the Far East however I did struggle to connect with the characters in this novel and therefore did not relate to their sufferings and joys.
February 18, 2021
Perhaps the fact that it was translated made initially becoming immersed in the novel slightly difficult,but I grew to enjoy the authors narrative style and voice. The plot felt like peering into a window so removed from my context both culturally and time wise and this made it all the more enjoyable.
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