Jump to ratings and reviews
Rate this book

The Thrill of It

Rate this book
Taut, chilling and unforgettable, The Thrill of It explores the mind of a killer and the power of a granddaughter's love. A masterful and explosive crime novel by Stella Prize longlisted and critically acclaimed author Mandy Beaumont.

That afternoon, when the police and then my mother finally arrived, they found me sitting beside Marlowe holding her hand and talking to about a boy I had a crush on, about the buttery yellow jumpsuit I had seen in a shop window that would look perfect on her; about those two cups of half-drunk coffee sitting on the table. Who was with you, Marlowe?

In March of 1989, Emmerson Kerr is alone.

One morning listening to her Walkman, a newsreader's words stop her dead. 'A warning to our listeners that this story is graphic in nature. The body of an 84-year-old woman has been found in the foyer of her apartment building on Sydney's lower North Shore ... '

Emmerson stood, held in place like an anchor, like a nail in wood, like the breath of a frightened woman alone in her home. She listened to the details and remembered back to that day, twelve years before, in her grandmother's Paddington studio. The 1977 murder of Marlowe Kerr - Sydney's art darling and socialite, a woman known for her lavish parties and her world-famous designs, but known to Emmerson as her colourful, loving grandmother - never solved.

And now, years later, a terrifying string of crimes against older women will begin, will force ageing female residents to lock themselves inside their homes. They will be in a state of constant fear. And, as the killer's reign of terror escalates, and Emmerson starts to unearth her beloved grandmother's shady past, she becomes increasingly convinced that the same person who killed Marlowe is also responsible for the depravity that is now unfolding in the city she has always called home.

Could Emmerson be the link to solving Marlowe's murder and help catch the killer before they kill again?

216 pages, Kindle Edition

Published February 26, 2025

9 people are currently reading
193 people want to read

About the author

Mandy Beaumont

8 books32 followers
Mandy is an award-winning writer and a researcher in creative writing. Her debut novel The Furies was long-listed for the prestigious Stella Prize and shortlisted for the MUD Literary Prize. The Furies was also shortlisted for the Queensland Literary Awards Fiction Book of the Year . Her collection of short stories, Wild, Fearless Chests, was shortlisted for the Richell Prize and the Dorothy Hewett Award. Stories from the collection also won the MOTH International Short Story Prize and were shortlisted for other notable awards. She is a convenor in creative writing at Griffith University and holds a PhD and a Research Masters in creative writing. She is also a regular feature writer and book reviewer for The Big Issue.

Ratings & Reviews

What do you think?
Rate this book

Friends & Following

Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!

Community Reviews

5 stars
39 (17%)
4 stars
80 (36%)
3 stars
82 (37%)
2 stars
13 (5%)
1 star
5 (2%)
Displaying 1 - 30 of 49 reviews
Profile Image for EmG ReadsDaily.
1,657 reviews145 followers
January 17, 2026
A cleverly written, dark and chilling crime fiction story, inspired by actual murders of elderly women in Australia during 1989-1990.

Told through the perspective of the serial killer, and a family member of a victim, through dual-timeline. Involving some police procedural elements.

There are some incredibly disturbing elements in this story, so it will not be suitable for all readers.
Profile Image for Suzanne.
709 reviews153 followers
April 7, 2025
I'm a true crime reader and I loved the way Mandy did the crossover between real life crime and fiction. I remember the Mosman Murders vividly and being scared for my own grandmother. I felt the same way for these elderly women reading this book. I couldn't put it down.

This book has/is :

* Dual POV's
* True Crime comparison
* Police Investigation
* Family Dynamics
* Crimes against older women
* Past and Present Timeline
Profile Image for Mandy White (mandylovestoread).
2,812 reviews870 followers
June 21, 2025
Why did I wait so long to read this book! Wow, this is all kinds of messed up and the scary thing is that it is based a real life case from the late 80s. I could not stop reading it,although it is very confronting and graphic. We know who the killer is from the start and the chapters from his sick mind were stomach churning to say the least.

The author captured the fear of the community so well, the way people had to change their behaviour and routines to stay safe. What sort of evil preys on elderly women? And his justification for it was just so awful. Being a Sydney girl all my life I could picture the locations as I was reading, although I do not remember the case well. I was in Hugh school at the time.

I did love all the 80s stuff.. the music, the food, the fashions..that I do remember!

This is a must read book. A horrific case and time for the north shore residents to live in fear like that.
Profile Image for Brooke.
291 reviews1 follower
February 26, 2025
A dark and confronting work of crime fiction inspired by the murders of six older women on Sydney’s North Shore between 1989 and 1990.

Emmerson was the one to find her grandmother Marlowe’s body ten years ago and this traumatic and terrifying incident has directed her life. She has just been accepted to the police academy and plans to eventually succeed in catching the killer where the police at the time had failed. However, when another older woman is found murdered in a way that matches Marlowe’s death, Em knows that she needs to investigate.

Told in two points of views, Em as well as that of the unnamed killer, this book was gripping and emotional. The climate of fear that pervaded the community as more women were killed was felt strongly through Mandy’s writing. Em’s love and crusade for justice for her grandmother were certainly the highlight for me.

The chapters from the killer’s POV were quite difficult to read as the horror felt so real. I am blown away by how Mandy got inside the mind of this type of person. I was constantly on edge, knowing that he could kill again at any moment.

The Thrill Of It is a powerful and compelling crime novel which reads like true crime. I highly recommend it to all crime readers, both true and fictional.
Profile Image for Jacqui.
936 reviews8 followers
January 30, 2025
Definitely not what I was expecting. This read like a sort of memoir, an almost dreamlike rendition of Emmerson's memories of her aunt Marlowe Kerr. Whilst I liked the writing I was expecting something a little more thrilling. Emmerson's chapters were intersected with chapters from the perspective of Marlowe's killer, a depraved man who prayed on the most vulnerable, who inhabited a deeply ingrained hatred towards women. They were repulsive but still did not break up the monotony of the story.
I appreciated the writing and felt Beaumont's descriptions of North Shore to be beautiful, however, I was hoping for more of a thriller crime story.

Free ARC from Hachette Australia & New Zealand via Netgalley.
Profile Image for Michele (michelethebookdragon).
410 reviews18 followers
June 18, 2025
Dark. Twisted. Cruel. Confronting. Sordid.

Holy moly that was all sorts of fucked up.

Mysoginy on steroids. Repressed rage. Controlled rage. Mummy issues.

Goodness me what a book. Based on the very real and very horrific murders of elderly woman that took place in the leafy lower North Shore of Sydney in 1989, this story is powerful and extremely confronting.

This was hard to read at times and I struggled with the visual images the words brought about, but I was totally engaged and engrossed in this story.

I don't know that I've read another book that has laid out the mind of a sick, perverted, narcissistic, holier than thou character better than this has. It was chilling reading his thoughts, reading his justifications for what he did.

I remember this case so well and the fear that was felt by the community in Mosman and surrounding areas. There were quite a few 80's references that gave me all the nostalgia feels too.

Overall, this is a powerful and hard-hitting story that will give you chills.
Profile Image for Reviews.with.Bianca.
196 reviews7 followers
August 24, 2025
I didn’t enjoy this one. While the writing was strong, the story itself is very dark and unsettling. It’s based on a true crime case, and I felt the premise could be deeply traumatic for the victims’ families. Overall, it just left me feeling uneasy and wasn’t for me.

Thank you to Hachette for gifting me this ARC in exchange for my honest review.
Profile Image for nina.reads.books.
679 reviews35 followers
February 25, 2025
The Thrill of It by Mandy Beaumont was sort of a thriller sort of a crime novel. It was nothing at all like I expected and unfortunately this was not in a good way.

I was expecting a lot more thrill. Instead it felt almost like a memoir as it was based loosely on a series of murders in the eighties. And yes these murders were terrible. Several elderly women were killed on Sydney's North Shore and this elicited panic amongst the community.

This premise was what set the scene for The Thrill of It. In 1989, Emmerson Kerr hears about the brutal murder of an elderly woman which reminds her of the death of her grandmother Marlowe years before. Emmerson found her body and she and her mother always felt that there was more to the crime than police uncovered.

Emmerson is about to start police officer training when the new murders bring back memories of the past. The book alternates between Emmerson's POV and that of the serial killer. He was as unhinged as one might expect and it wasn't nice to read his chapters. Emmerson begins to dig deeper into Marlowe's past and soon is convinced that the person responsible for her death is the same person killing right now.

This sounds like it might be a good basis for a book and I did appreciate the afterword where the author talks about wanting to give the real life victims back their identities but the execution just didn't work for me.

One of the cops investigating just happens to be her childhood friend and together with his boss they all hang out in Emmerson's plush North Shore home getting drunk and brainstorming whodunit? A civilian and police working together to solve the crime in this way felt a bit farfetched. And as I said at the start there was not a lot of thrill to the story. I'm really sorry that this was not a win for me.

Thank you @netgalley for an e-copy and @hachetteaus for a physical #gifted copy.
34 reviews
May 13, 2025
The Thrill of It by Mandy Beaumont is a dark and atmospheric thriller set against the gritty backdrop of 1980s Sydney. The story follows Emmerson Kerr as she investigates the unsolved murder of her grandmother, Marlowe, while a series of brutal crimes against elderly women grips the city.

While the book was a fast and engaging read, I found myself wanting a bit more depth. The premise is gripping, and the dual narrative structure effectively builds suspense, but some plot points felt underdeveloped. Marlowe’s mysterious past and the gardener’s desire to be a father figure raised more questions than they answered, leaving me wishing these elements had been explored further to add a richer backdrop to the main plot.

After reading this, I realised I don’t really think much of the protagonist or antagonist. It’s a stark reminder that trauma can twist people into someone you can’t always sympathise with, and that hurt people often hurt others. It made me reflect on the importance of kindness, even when others seem unworthy of it, because you never truly know the darkness they might be carrying.

That said, despite my mixed feelings, I consumed this book very quickly, driven by the need to find out what would happen next, which speaks to Beaumont’s ability to keep the tension high.

I’m giving it 3 stars – while I’m not sure I’d recommend it, it definitely held my attention.
Profile Image for Emma Balkin.
658 reviews4 followers
August 10, 2025
This book piqued my interest as soon as I started listening to it, when I realised that one of the storylines is based on the murder or Florence Broadhurst in Sydney during the 1970s. There were some fascinating insights gained regarding the high life of ‘Marlowe Kerr’ (her fictional equivalent) and her granddaughter, Emmerson. This storyline is woven together with a man who murdered a series of elderly women on Sydney’s North Shore in 1989 and 1990, again based on a real person dubbed the ‘Granny Killer’. His account is disturbing and graphic, and Beaumont renders his disturbed mind in a convincing manner on the page. Time and space are evoked convincingly, especially through multiple references to characters from ‘The Bill’, and tension builds as the story progresses. I will be seeking out more of Mandy Beaumont’s books.
Profile Image for Jane (Avid reader).
371 reviews4 followers
June 15, 2025
The writing is evocative and rich and brings the serial killer’s inner motivations horrifically to light. However, the plot is far too close to the actions of the Granny killer John Glover and the murder of the main characters grandmother closely follows that of Florence Broadhurst even down to the theft of her rings. For me this was a big distraction and I felt the book would have benefited from more fictional elements.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
Profile Image for Jillian.
909 reviews14 followers
May 31, 2025
A dilemma in understanding,solving and reporting murder. How do you get inside the killer’s mind without either infecting yourself or marketing the killer? This dilemma was much evident as I read this. There is some powerful writing - most of it around the killer.. A fictional account of a series of “grannies” murders might follow the process of detection, including gaining an understanding of what motivates the killer. An account or history of a crime might work from evidence gathered and sequence of events. I have reservations about fiction based, however loosely, on an actual series of murders, that powerfully conjures a killer’ mindset, and ultimately speculates. I don’t want to be inside this criminal mind. It detracts from the story of the women and the fight for justice.
This feels to me like a hybrid of fact and fiction which does justice to neither and leaves me feeling contaminated.
Profile Image for Cera Davis.
20 reviews
January 15, 2025
a gorgeous two sided perspective that analyses motives, and fleshes out the raw importance of the individuals killed by the real life John-Wayne Glover
Profile Image for Robert Goodman.
567 reviews17 followers
February 20, 2025
In The Thrill of It Mandy Baumont creates a fictional tale out of a very real string of crimes in Sydney in in 1989 and 1990. Those crimes involved a serial killer called John Wayne Glover, who killed six elderly women over a period of 14 months and was nicknamed the Granny Killer. Beaumont also links those crimes to an earlier one (the murder of Australian icon Florence Broadhurst) in a way that was rumoured but not supported by the evidence of the time but does create some resonance in her fictional world.
The Thrill of It opens in 1989 with Emmerson Kerr who lives in her grandmother’s grand house in Mosman on Sydney’s lower North Shore. That grandmother, Marlowe Kerr was a famous designer of materials and wallpapers and was killed in her studio in Darlinghurst in 1977. When Emmerson learns of the death of another elderly woman in similar circumstances, she connects it to her grandmother’s murder and begins to investigate. Luckily for Emmerson, her mother somehow illegally got hold of the official police evidence box from the original crime. When more elderly women are killed and Emmerson finds herself involved in the police investigation.
At the same time, Beaumont gives the perspective of the killer – a “beige man” with mother issues. He is a travelling salesman, married with two children and with a job that gives him access to old age homes among other places, but is highly unremarkable and moves through these places mostly unnoticed. The title of the book comes from his repeated musings that he commits these crimes (not only the murders but also other heinous acts against the elderly) for the “thrill of it”. While the Beaumont implicates him for the murder of Marlowe Kerr, she has a harder time explaining why he waited 12 years before suddenly going on an uncontrollable murder spree.
Beaumont does have a point to all of this though. The narrative is intent on exploring how people can become invisible to the system. Whether it is the killer, who is so grey that no one suspects him. But also his victims. As Emmerson observes at one point:
Old women, I have learned since Marlowe’s death, go largely unseen in a culture that favours the young, the untouched.
The other interesting aspect of this book is its sense of place. With so many Australian crime books, contemporary or historical, focussing on the regions, it is refreshing to find a book that is exploring a very moneyed, urban part of Sydney – the lower North Shore:
There’s a kind of entitled small-town safety here, a refuge from the meagre lifestyles lived beyond the area’s mapped borders. The people here seem so oblivious and indigent. It’s a place of old money that builds and builds, where old women walk slowly wearing their pearls and their designer skirts from the seventies, their hair perfectly and expensively coiffed.
Australia does not have many serial killers (thankfully). So while the backpacker killer still looms large in the public consciousness, the Granny Killer, because of his focus on elderly women has quickly fallen away. For this reason alone The Thrill of It is a timely reminder of a time when the elderly lived in fear even in some of the most well-heeled of Australian suburbs. However, it takes a fair amount of contrivance to bring readers into the story and the investigation, and readers enjoyment may depend on their willingness to spend time in the mind of a serial killer.

Profile Image for Natalie.
833 reviews
July 14, 2025
A gripping thriller heavily inspired by the real-life murder of Sydney artist and designer Florence Broadhurst and the murders of older women in Sydney’s North Shore area in the late 80s, horrifically dubbed ‘The Granny Killings’ by the media.

Set in 1989, action carefully switches between Emerson, the granddaughter of a murdered woman Marlowe Kerr, a Sydney designer and celebrity, and the unnamed perpetrator targeting older women. It took me a bit to get into, but as the tension slowly built, I was gripped, especially as we learn more and more about the killer. It’s a short book that packs a huge punch. I really appreciated the commentary about older women just being dismissed as ‘grannies’ instead of well-rounded women with lives, talents, loved ones and value.

However, I wrestled with a couple of questions that popped up as I read this and the author’s and publisher’s notes. Firstly, how can this be seen as ‘fiction with similarities to real people coincidental’ when there’s a lot of real life detail used to create these fictional characters, albeit broad strokes. Like Marlowe, Florence Broadhurst had a Paddington studio she was murdered in and was known as a Sydney identity and famed for her wallpaper design? Secondly, if this is a book attempting to restore agency and power to real life older women who have become invisible and ignored while media and entertainment glorifies the perpetrators, then why is there chapters told from the perpetrator’s point of view and little of his victims? I don’t have the answers, but I’m unsure if this book set out what it is supposed to do.
Profile Image for Michelle_Mck.
85 reviews46 followers
September 4, 2025
My Mum has just come back to reading and this was one instance where out tastes alligned and we both decided to read the book. Mum read it first and she couldn't put it down, and I couldn't wait to get to it.

The book is loosely based on the Granny Killer Murders in the 80's. I was at school in Sydney at the time and can remember my Nana talking about it with her friends from the bowling club and hearing it on talk radio on the way to school. The callouts to popular culture had me hooked.

This was a difficult at times to read but truly so worthwhile. The perpetrator was hiding in plain sight in the community and made me think of all the times in my adult life where I have though some dude was weird and gave me a bad feeling and I am now wondering "did they ever do something to someone?"

The writing style was perfect for me, it was detailed yet left me room to come to my own conclusions at points. The characters developed enough like i was getting a snapshot yet they still have their own rich life.

I wasn't expecting the end and it made me put the book down for a moment and I immediately called Mum to talk to her about it.

Can't wait to read more by this author. I loved the book but realise my knowledge of the places, time period and crime may have had me more interested than it may have others.
Profile Image for Tiana.
70 reviews
May 8, 2025
Wow reading the acknowledgements is soooo true! When a victim is murdered all we really hear about is the act of murder but the author sheds light and gives a life to the victim because they were all probably strong beautiful women!❣️
And the murderer is soooo sick because they get turned on by felling up an old lady, they get hard after suffocating their mum. They get off to their mum getting off.

She does a great job at portraying the horrible stereotypes of unprogressive men. Men insecure when a woman is strong, and independent or when she does well for herself. Also when they aren’t in power.

So much to say about the main character she also kind of touched on the uselessness of the police force lol.

I think there should be more books acknowledging and appreciating the victim and vilianising the killers. The killers that think everyone else is a problem but themselves. Also you can’t blame your horrific actions on someone else/your mummy issues you’re just a shit person.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
Profile Image for Jay Dwight.
1,105 reviews42 followers
January 12, 2025
This one is inspired by real events, and follows a serial killer operating on the north shore of Sydney in the late 1980's.

The best part of this one is the insights to our serial killer's mind. It provides considerable depth to his motivations and thought processes, and his internal battles to supress his urges when appropriate, and finding the ways to release them when unlikely to get caught.

The flaw for me is that there wasn't a lot of depth to the police procedural aspect, and a couple of aspects I found difficult to accept. First, the fact that the police would welcome a private citizen into the investigation, and secondly that they'd hold no grudge for that citizen having been in possession of the evidence box of a related case for many years without handing this over to the police.

Despite that, still a good read that I'd recommend.
Profile Image for Mike.
1,389 reviews93 followers
October 19, 2025
A historic murder mystery, The Thrill of It by Mandy Beaumont, takes place in 1989 Sydney. It opens with a visit from Princess Diana meeting the public on the Sydney foreshore, watched on by the main protagonist, an unnamed man with his family. When Emmerson hears on the news of an elderly woman killed, she immediately thinks of her own grandmother, who was similarly murdered years earlier. The narrative switches between these two characters in an interesting dichotomy of differing motivations, contrasting ethical and emotional personalities. This is an intriguing crime mystery with an unnamed killer and a victim’s granddaughter seeking justice, which is a character-driven tale. Based loosely on an actual murderer known as the granny killer, this is an enjoyable, four star read rating. As always, the opinions herein are totally my own, freely given and without any inducement.
Profile Image for Kerrie.
1,317 reviews
May 9, 2025
The author notes

"THE THRILL OF IT is a work of fiction. It is inspired and informed by the real-life brutal slayings of six older women on Sydney's North Shore between 1989 and 1990.."

While the auhor has attempted to fictionalise the story with the creation of the central character Emmerson, the granddaughter of an earlier victim of the same killer, it doesn't feel really successful. It feels as if it is really a thinly disguised "real-crime" account, a little too close to the bare bones of the original story. Nevertheless there is an attempt to analyse the motives of the killer and a feeling of suspense as he approaches his final victim.
Profile Image for Yasmin Hannah.
41 reviews
May 18, 2025
Trigger warning: This book contains graphic depictions of violence against women, including sexual assault.

I was completely hooked and finished it in just two days, which is a big deal for me, as I usually struggle to finish a novel in under a week. (Short attention span)

This is a gritty, confronting story centered around a serial killer targeting elderly women in 1989 Mosman, Sydney. It mirrors the real life killings of elderly women by John Wayne Glover. The writing is intense and immersive, pulling you deep into a dark and chilling world.

I’m definitely keen to read more from this author.
Profile Image for Corinne Johnston.
1,026 reviews
July 17, 2025
3.5 Really from me, not quite a 4. Having lived in Sydney when Florence Broadhurst was murdered (actually drove past her factory with police around the morning the body was discovered) and subsequently during the so-called 'Granny Killer' deaths I found this a bit distasteful. I read more like a fictionalised copy of some dreadful acts by a dreadful man. The main character is almost identical in description, motives, occupation as the actual killer.
The description of sydney is wonderful, but the harping on brands for shoes and perfume and food, presumably to set the scene, was a bit overdone.
So an enjoyable read, but not fantastic.
Profile Image for Amy.
1 review
September 15, 2025
Mandy tells such a vivid and engrossing story with this novel. Powerful and captivating from beginning to end, exploring such horrid crime as well as shining a light on societies blindness to older women. A true thrill it was to read!

“Old women, I have learned since Marlowe's death, go largely unseen in a culture that favours the young, the untouched. And if by chance old women made you notice them���like Marlowe did with her art and her outfits and her parties-then they were considered a little crazy, a bit of problem, somehow suspect.”
238 reviews14 followers
April 7, 2025
Last week I attended an author event to hear Mandy Beaumont speak about her new thriller, 'The Thrill of It'.

Mandy perfectly described this book as sitting between a true crime story and fiction.

At the event I mentioned that I had started the book in the car as I had arrived early. Mandy said to me, "it gets bad, and then it gets worse", and I think this story up perfectly.

But as it gets bad... and then worse... you won't be able to put this book down.
Profile Image for Luke Besse.
11 reviews
April 11, 2025
First things first, this is not "Australian crime fiction" (you know what I'm talking about). This is a commentary - on the nature of violent men and the people in their orbit.

Don't be put off though - this is a quick but very satisfying read, and the characters are alive and real on the page, and by the time the uncertainty and tension hits in the last few chapters you'll be feeling it.

Also, this novel may do to independent lamington vendors what Wolf Creek did to outback tourism.
106 reviews
April 18, 2025
I had enjoyed Jane Harper and Hayley Scrivenor’s Australian crime books, and this one rated well, so I gave it a shot.

Unfortunately I didn’t really enjoy it. I think the execution was lacking - somehow the plot left me a bit bored, rather than thrilled or intrigued to find out why the killer did this, or what would happen next.

It wasn’t terrible, it was just a bit mediocre.

DNF @ 50 pages.

Perhaps I’ll try to go back to it later on?
Profile Image for Katrina.
79 reviews1 follower
May 24, 2025
2.5 I feel uncomfortable with a novel that so mirrors a real life crime that has not been completely resolved. I’d feel very disrespected if I was a family member by the speculations and conjecturing of the storyline and not seen as the author hopes. I don’t feel like this horror should lead to profit for a writer. I feel that the writer could have taken the storyline and gone further from the facts to make a fictionalised version.
Profile Image for R.F. Veer.
45 reviews1 follower
September 5, 2025
A decent reimagining of the 1989 Granny Killings on Sydney North shore. It does a good job of refocusing the story on the women impacted and also providing a POV of the killer that depicts him as appropriately pathetic and narcissistic. Beaumont wrote this to refocus the serial killer narrative on the elderly women who lost their lives. I do wish she had provided more of their perspective, made us feel more connected to these grandmothers, sisters, mums, aunts before we lost them. Overall though, a compelling read and an enjoyable thriller.
Profile Image for G.
27 reviews
January 11, 2026
2.5 ⭐️
An interesting take on a true crime mystery from 1989-1990.
I enjoyed the story from the killers perspective however found the overlapping storyline of the victims granddaughter to be quite slow paced and at times it didn’t add much to the story progression. I would have liked something more fast paced that added unique insights to the mystery. Overall a well written novel that provided a unique perspective to a historic crime.
272 reviews1 follower
December 11, 2024
Inspired by the real-life brutal slayings of six women on Sydney North Shore between 1989 to 1990 by English-born John Wayne Glover, also known as the Granny Killer.

A breathtakingly fast-paced and gripping story of mystery and crime. I did find it really chilling and it did creep me out but it was a great read and enjoyed it.

Thank you NetGalley and the publisher for the ARC.
Displaying 1 - 30 of 49 reviews

Can't find what you're looking for?

Get help and learn more about the design.