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The Poetic Species: A Conversation with Edward O. Wilson and Robert Hass
A meeting of great minds at the intersection of the arts and sciences “Enchanting. . . . The Poetic Species is a wonderful read in its entirety, short yet infinitely simulating.” — Maria Popova, Marginalian In this shimmering conversation, Edward O. Wilson, renowned scientist and proponent of “consilience” or the unity of knowledge, finds an ardent interlocutor in Robert Hass, whose credo as United States poet laureate was “imagination makes communities.” As they explore the many ways that poetry and science enhance each other, they travel from anthills to ancient Egypt and to the heights and depths of human potential.A testament to how science and the arts can join forces to educate and inspire, this book is also a passionate plea for conservation of all the planet’s species.
96 pages, Kindle Edition
First published February 21, 2014
28 people are currently reading
449 people want to read
About the author
Edward O. Wilson
201 books2,500 followersEdward Osborne Wilson, sometimes credited as E.O. Wilson, was an American biologist, researcher, theorist, and author. His biological specialty is myrmecology, a branch of entomology. A two-time winner of the Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction, Wilson is known for his career as a scientist, his advocacy for environmentalism, and his secular-humanist ideas pertaining to religious and ethical matters. He was the Pellegrino University Research Professor in Entomology for the Department of Organismic and Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University and a Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry. He is a Humanist Laureate of the International Academy of Humanism.
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Displaying 1 - 15 of 15 reviews
June 6, 2014
In December 2012 two New York institutions, Poets House and the American Museum of Natural History, hosted a conversation between Edward O. Wilson, professor emeritus of entomology at Harvard, and Robert Hass, former U.S. Poet Laureate and professor of English at UC Berkeley. Thankfully, this is not some tired science-religion debate, but a more nuanced discussion of the evolution of human culture, including art, language and poetry. “We dream together,” Wilson declares, and this imaginative dialogue between two geniuses from very different disciplines represents a helpful dream of how science and the humanities can cooperate.
Previously, Poets House had embarked on a venture they called Language of Conservation, placing poems next to prominent exhibits in six city zoos; they found that the poetry did indeed enhance people’s understanding of wildlife conservation. In her foreword, Lee Briccetti (executive director of Poets House) astutely notes that “when people experience poetry, they are often surprised and delighted. But if you tell them that it is coming, they get nervous.”
Hass opens by asking Wilson, “how do you always manage to get in so much trouble?” Wilson responds that trouble means progress; his entrepreneurial spirit means that he often finds himself opposing dogmas. In reply, Hass wryly assesses creators’ lesser persecution: “Poets tend not to get assaulted. They just get reviews they find grossly uncomprehending. And then they fume privately.”
Wilson and Hass are both deeply interested in fate versus determinism (after the publication of Sociobiology, Wilson was accused of being a eugenicist). The human brain has clearly evolved to allow for art, culture and language; what is perhaps less clear is how altruism benefits a collection of ‘selfish genes.’ I loved Hass’s summation of the dilemma: “the dance of the tension between these two things must constitute something of what we mean by consciousness, by the experience of having choice and free will and moral life.”
For me, the most valuable section of the conversation focused on our collective task of species conservation. Hass recalled that Robert Frost and Wallace Stevens both have a rather dark view of the natural world, as unknowable or even threatening, but a contemporary approach requires more optimism. Ideally, we need to reintroduce a sense of wonder about nature, as Hass attempts when he reads Elizabeth Bishop’s wonderful poem “The Fish” to schoolchildren.
Wilson believes that we’ve been on the defensive for far too long, as if we have to make a case for biodiversity; it’s now time to take on an offensive role. He rejects the idea of having to set up a hierarchical ‘triage’ for endangered animals; “Well, I have a doctrine: Save Them All. I don’t mean to make a political statement. I’m making a moral statement. We have to develop a new and better ethic to save the rest of life.” One way of doing this is to devote much more public land to national wildlife parks, as Wilson is advocating in his native Alabama. Hass brought up the irony of the situation in Korea, where the DMZ is now an incredibly fertile wildlife area; if the two Koreas ever reconcile, that land and its species may be lost.
How can we – scientists and writers, humanists all – be a positive force in nature? By bringing biology to life through storytelling, Wilson insists. “Do you have a recommendation for poets?” asks Hass. Wilson’s blunt advice: “Colonize science.”
One of the best examples I’ve found of a poet successfully colonizing science is Ruth Padel. A descendant of Darwin, she writes entrancing poems that draw inspiration from the natural world. Her Darwin: A Life in Poems is first-rate; her unusual mixture of poetry and essays, The Mara Crossing, is particularly rich in environmental themes; and her only novel, Where the Serpent Lives, is not great as fiction goes but still masterfully interweaves natural processes and human choices. I’ve also recently enjoyed Andrea Barrett’s science-themed short fiction in Archangel.
At only about 90 pages, this is a slender yet meditative book that everyone should take a look at, whether you fancy yourself an environmentally-aware thinker or not.
Previously, Poets House had embarked on a venture they called Language of Conservation, placing poems next to prominent exhibits in six city zoos; they found that the poetry did indeed enhance people’s understanding of wildlife conservation. In her foreword, Lee Briccetti (executive director of Poets House) astutely notes that “when people experience poetry, they are often surprised and delighted. But if you tell them that it is coming, they get nervous.”
Hass opens by asking Wilson, “how do you always manage to get in so much trouble?” Wilson responds that trouble means progress; his entrepreneurial spirit means that he often finds himself opposing dogmas. In reply, Hass wryly assesses creators’ lesser persecution: “Poets tend not to get assaulted. They just get reviews they find grossly uncomprehending. And then they fume privately.”
Wilson and Hass are both deeply interested in fate versus determinism (after the publication of Sociobiology, Wilson was accused of being a eugenicist). The human brain has clearly evolved to allow for art, culture and language; what is perhaps less clear is how altruism benefits a collection of ‘selfish genes.’ I loved Hass’s summation of the dilemma: “the dance of the tension between these two things must constitute something of what we mean by consciousness, by the experience of having choice and free will and moral life.”
For me, the most valuable section of the conversation focused on our collective task of species conservation. Hass recalled that Robert Frost and Wallace Stevens both have a rather dark view of the natural world, as unknowable or even threatening, but a contemporary approach requires more optimism. Ideally, we need to reintroduce a sense of wonder about nature, as Hass attempts when he reads Elizabeth Bishop’s wonderful poem “The Fish” to schoolchildren.
Wilson believes that we’ve been on the defensive for far too long, as if we have to make a case for biodiversity; it’s now time to take on an offensive role. He rejects the idea of having to set up a hierarchical ‘triage’ for endangered animals; “Well, I have a doctrine: Save Them All. I don’t mean to make a political statement. I’m making a moral statement. We have to develop a new and better ethic to save the rest of life.” One way of doing this is to devote much more public land to national wildlife parks, as Wilson is advocating in his native Alabama. Hass brought up the irony of the situation in Korea, where the DMZ is now an incredibly fertile wildlife area; if the two Koreas ever reconcile, that land and its species may be lost.
How can we – scientists and writers, humanists all – be a positive force in nature? By bringing biology to life through storytelling, Wilson insists. “Do you have a recommendation for poets?” asks Hass. Wilson’s blunt advice: “Colonize science.”
One of the best examples I’ve found of a poet successfully colonizing science is Ruth Padel. A descendant of Darwin, she writes entrancing poems that draw inspiration from the natural world. Her Darwin: A Life in Poems is first-rate; her unusual mixture of poetry and essays, The Mara Crossing, is particularly rich in environmental themes; and her only novel, Where the Serpent Lives, is not great as fiction goes but still masterfully interweaves natural processes and human choices. I’ve also recently enjoyed Andrea Barrett’s science-themed short fiction in Archangel.
At only about 90 pages, this is a slender yet meditative book that everyone should take a look at, whether you fancy yourself an environmentally-aware thinker or not.
May 21, 2014
I received this book through the goodreads giveaway program.
This is a beautiful little book, worth reading and re-reading. It suspends these ideas, evolutionary poetry and poetic evolution, in time and holds them up for reflection. The central idea to the first half of the conversation is the conflict between our tendency to preserve our individual selves vs. our groups (altruism, but Edwards says this is just selfishness with a bigger self), and how that conflict is both in our biology as well as arts and humanities.
The conversation branches out from there, and covers conservation, etc. Wilson always is a little smarmy when discussing his own professional trials and tribulations, and he somehow doesn't notice that the goal is not to discuss his own biography. But I thought the insights from Hass and yes, also from Wilson were truly inspiring. And I combed forward and backward and forward again through the text, cherishing it.
It's just a beautiful, small meditation on the intersection between our poetry and our science. The introduction had one comparison that I thought surprising but apt: both science and poetry are things that most people are afraid of, but enjoy if they can be tricked into doing them. Here's hoping for more trickery in the future.
This is a beautiful little book, worth reading and re-reading. It suspends these ideas, evolutionary poetry and poetic evolution, in time and holds them up for reflection. The central idea to the first half of the conversation is the conflict between our tendency to preserve our individual selves vs. our groups (altruism, but Edwards says this is just selfishness with a bigger self), and how that conflict is both in our biology as well as arts and humanities.
The conversation branches out from there, and covers conservation, etc. Wilson always is a little smarmy when discussing his own professional trials and tribulations, and he somehow doesn't notice that the goal is not to discuss his own biography. But I thought the insights from Hass and yes, also from Wilson were truly inspiring. And I combed forward and backward and forward again through the text, cherishing it.
It's just a beautiful, small meditation on the intersection between our poetry and our science. The introduction had one comparison that I thought surprising but apt: both science and poetry are things that most people are afraid of, but enjoy if they can be tricked into doing them. Here's hoping for more trickery in the future.
February 16, 2020
This is biologist Edward Wilson and poet Robert Hass in conversation about human nature. Wilson once called human beings the poetic species because our thinking depends on analogy and associative thinking. Poetry is our finest example of the human mind at work. It seems like this would be a great premise for a conversation between a biologist and poet but it doesn't shed light on much of anything. I'd recommend reading some of their other works: Robert Hass's
The Apple Trees at Olema
and
What Light Can Do: Essays on Art, Imagination, and the Natural World
and Edward Wilson's
The Meaning of Human Existence
and
Sociobiology: The New Synthesis
. Oh, guess I should share that both people each won a Pulitzer Prize and Wilson invented a field of study, sociobiology. K, bye.
October 2, 2021
What I’ve read…two old men talking about the importance of nature. I’m giving 1 star because I don’t think this should be documented and made into a book. The words they used are big-big words, i got trail off along the passage…
The important take of this book, they both agreed that we, humans as stewards to Earth should do more for the environment, for nature, and also to educate the young as it’s their generations that will have to act on our behalf (saving the world as we are not doing enough). That’s the gist of it. It’s a good notion, a righteous perspective that humans need to be more responsible..just that this book is terrible..
The important take of this book, they both agreed that we, humans as stewards to Earth should do more for the environment, for nature, and also to educate the young as it’s their generations that will have to act on our behalf (saving the world as we are not doing enough). That’s the gist of it. It’s a good notion, a righteous perspective that humans need to be more responsible..just that this book is terrible..
November 16, 2019
I read this for a little inspiration to get unstuck in a creative project. It helped but I didn't learn anything new having read Wilson prior and been lucky enough to hear him speak a couple times. Quick read so if someone is interested may still be worth checking out. I'm unlikely going to recommend it outside of sharing some quotes with friends.
May 12, 2018
I enjoyed this slim book of a conversation between a scientist and a poet. They share the connections between who we are as humans and how we are shape by art. A great yet short read to inspire ideas and creativity.
June 12, 2018
It is so short :(
October 12, 2024
Underwhelming
January 25, 2026
2025 reads, only archived this 2026.
August 11, 2016
I wish I had known this book was available sooner, and that the event it is a transcript of had happened when it did. I feel like I am late to the party, and I so want to be a guest!
I have read E.O. Wilson's work throughout my career, and as I have developed as a poet, I have tried to reflect the impact his writing has had on me. His articles about the power of story, and how we think through metaphor, have fed my own philosophy as a poet. I have also enjoyed reading Robert Hass' poetry, of course.
But, I did not know that they had discussed the similarities between how scientists and poets think, and on how "consilience" might be achieved. This book was primarily concerned with discussing how the two ways of thinking are similar and how they historically became estranged. This discussion addresses the goals of consilience, but I wish they had gone further to discuss ways of bringing modern ideas from science into the metaphorical storehouse of modern poetry. Poets like Alice Major have proven adept at alluding to modern ideas as metaphor for the human condition, and i would like to see this highlighted more, recognized, and accepted as a paradigm for poetry equal to allusion to more traditional storehouses such as ancient literature, mythology, and more traditional views of nature.
I hope to contribute to this agenda. In fact, I have a poem with the title "Consilience" that was included in my chapbook "Clacking Things" from Kattywompus Press, and my recently published book "Nebular Hypothesis" from Cawing Crow Press. I'll end this review with that poem in hopes that it will illustrate my points.
Consilience
“The essence of humanity’s spiritual dilemma is that we evolved genetically
to accept one truth and discovered another.”
E.O. Wilson
The easiest place to feel bone
is the corner of your eye. Trace
the rim of solid cave wall
protecting emergence of intelligence
in response to stimuli of light.
Close your eye lid and feel
the soft orb that connects
you to the real world. The you
confined, remotely sensing
something beyond yourself.
Perceiving it as more substantial
than ego and thought.
Though you can never be sure
that there is more than harmonic
agreement of experience
and dream. Wave function
collapse in conscious
mind against obligation
to meaning. Emotion is all
we truly know to be real.
Wrapped in simulation of external
awareness. So we worship
the sun and the moon
and the stars. Their ability to tell
time and law. To set
into mechanistic order
the randomness of quantum
particles. The chaos
of complex systems.
The vagaries of thought.
And we both admire and fear
the artist. Who simplifies
landscapes and faces
into lines and shapes. Emotions
into gradations of color.
Images into metaphor. Words
into poetry. The familiar into something
deeper, more universal.
And we find consilience
in constructions of substance
from accidental experience.
The beauty of rain clouds
reaching for soil
from black box sky. Ripples of rain drops
in placid water. Flowers emerging
slowly. Oceans lapping
against mottled shores.
The joy and disillusionment
of children. Deliquescence
of parental imperative.
Shedding tears as childhood passes
before our eyes. Seeming
to disappear. Into the familiar.
I have read E.O. Wilson's work throughout my career, and as I have developed as a poet, I have tried to reflect the impact his writing has had on me. His articles about the power of story, and how we think through metaphor, have fed my own philosophy as a poet. I have also enjoyed reading Robert Hass' poetry, of course.
But, I did not know that they had discussed the similarities between how scientists and poets think, and on how "consilience" might be achieved. This book was primarily concerned with discussing how the two ways of thinking are similar and how they historically became estranged. This discussion addresses the goals of consilience, but I wish they had gone further to discuss ways of bringing modern ideas from science into the metaphorical storehouse of modern poetry. Poets like Alice Major have proven adept at alluding to modern ideas as metaphor for the human condition, and i would like to see this highlighted more, recognized, and accepted as a paradigm for poetry equal to allusion to more traditional storehouses such as ancient literature, mythology, and more traditional views of nature.
I hope to contribute to this agenda. In fact, I have a poem with the title "Consilience" that was included in my chapbook "Clacking Things" from Kattywompus Press, and my recently published book "Nebular Hypothesis" from Cawing Crow Press. I'll end this review with that poem in hopes that it will illustrate my points.
Consilience
“The essence of humanity’s spiritual dilemma is that we evolved genetically
to accept one truth and discovered another.”
E.O. Wilson
The easiest place to feel bone
is the corner of your eye. Trace
the rim of solid cave wall
protecting emergence of intelligence
in response to stimuli of light.
Close your eye lid and feel
the soft orb that connects
you to the real world. The you
confined, remotely sensing
something beyond yourself.
Perceiving it as more substantial
than ego and thought.
Though you can never be sure
that there is more than harmonic
agreement of experience
and dream. Wave function
collapse in conscious
mind against obligation
to meaning. Emotion is all
we truly know to be real.
Wrapped in simulation of external
awareness. So we worship
the sun and the moon
and the stars. Their ability to tell
time and law. To set
into mechanistic order
the randomness of quantum
particles. The chaos
of complex systems.
The vagaries of thought.
And we both admire and fear
the artist. Who simplifies
landscapes and faces
into lines and shapes. Emotions
into gradations of color.
Images into metaphor. Words
into poetry. The familiar into something
deeper, more universal.
And we find consilience
in constructions of substance
from accidental experience.
The beauty of rain clouds
reaching for soil
from black box sky. Ripples of rain drops
in placid water. Flowers emerging
slowly. Oceans lapping
against mottled shores.
The joy and disillusionment
of children. Deliquescence
of parental imperative.
Shedding tears as childhood passes
before our eyes. Seeming
to disappear. Into the familiar.
April 30, 2014
I'm not entirely sure what i expected from this book when I picked it up. As anyone who knows me knows, science and poetry are two of my favourite things and when combined into scientific poetry I lose the ability to function as a normal human being.
So maybe in that respect I was disappointed by the book and it's lack of scientific poetry, but it talked about far more important things.
I'm particularly impressed by it's length. It covers huge ideas in a very short space. I found that it was more science oriented than I might have liked it to be. I would have like to see more of a synthesis, though that would have been impossible given the length of the conversation.
Both men are extremely well spoken and touch on the most important issues facing the sciences, the humanities, and ecology; education, and what can be done about it.
I also found both Hass and Wilson's book suggestions extremely interesting, as they are books I often recommend.
This short conversation is an excellent jumping off point for a larger discussion and research base.
So maybe in that respect I was disappointed by the book and it's lack of scientific poetry, but it talked about far more important things.
I'm particularly impressed by it's length. It covers huge ideas in a very short space. I found that it was more science oriented than I might have liked it to be. I would have like to see more of a synthesis, though that would have been impossible given the length of the conversation.
Both men are extremely well spoken and touch on the most important issues facing the sciences, the humanities, and ecology; education, and what can be done about it.
I also found both Hass and Wilson's book suggestions extremely interesting, as they are books I often recommend.
This short conversation is an excellent jumping off point for a larger discussion and research base.
November 20, 2014
Interesante, pero no vale los 8 euros. Es muy breve (quizás media hora de lectura) y se tratan algunas cosas interesantes del ser humano, la sociedad y el juego entre ciencia (biología) y arte (poesía), pero, bajo mi perspectiva, es una entrevista-conversación sobrevalorada.
April 9, 2014
Fascinating. Longer review to come.
August 14, 2016
The more of E. O. Wilson's works I read, the more I feel compelled to dig deeper and deeper in the realm of science. There's so much to learn!
January 26, 2015
Interesting but brief, not all that focused.
Displaying 1 - 15 of 15 reviews