What do you think?
Rate this book
Women at Church: Magnifying LDS Women’s Local Impact
Women at Church is a practical and faithful guide to improving the way men and women work together at church. Looking at current administrative and cultural practices, the author explains why some women struggle with the gendered divisions of labor. She then examines ample real-life examples that are currently happening in local settings around the country that expand and reimagine gendered practices. Readers will understand how to evaluate possible pain points in current practices and propose solutions that continue to uphold all mandated church policies. Readers will be equipped with the tools they need to have respectful, empathetic and productive conversations about gendered practices in Church administration and culture.
211 pages, Paperback
First published August 28, 2014
65 people are currently reading
1092 people want to read
Ratings & Reviews
Friends & Following
Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!
Community Reviews
Displaying 1 - 30 of 225 reviews
June 8, 2015
I approached this book with a fair amount of skepticism. "Mormon feminism" to me has meant "ordain women," and I am not going to go there. I started reading with a combative attitude. After a bit of dueling scripture citation, I decided to take a deep breath and just try to understand what the author was saying.
She explained and highlighted some challenges that some women face in the LDS Church as a result of cultural changes and expectations. I'm not going to summarize these as I don't have the book at hand, but this is what I took away from my reading.
It is not enough to look at someone struggling and to say "If you don't like it, hit the bricks," simply because it isn't a struggle for us, personally. There is merit in hearing what someone has to say, rather than simply assuming we know what their struggle is.
It's important to look at things that we do as part of our worship and ask ourselves: is this mandated, or a tradition without foundation other than time?
If females, especially our young girls and young women, are having a hard time truly seeing their place in the Church, and what role they have, we aren't showing them enough the impact and power that women have in the service of God. They need to see other women- speaking, teaching, serving, and recognized. Not for praise, but so that men and women, old and young, all see that we all have a contribution to make.
There should be more parity between the programs we offer our young men and boys, and our young women and girls. Granted that the Scouting program is historical and entrenched and expensive- we can still work to offer more for our young women. In a culture where marriage and family are increasingly delayed, and sometimes (far too often) denied for various reasons, exposure to job possibilities, practical skills, and a world beyond making scripture covers, modesty, makeovers, and journaling is going to be so important for our young women.
As women, we need to stop picking on each other. We each have different challenges. To say "if she would only-" is to imagine the tiny slice of what we see on social media or at Church is all there is to know about someone- and then to judge accordingly.
I began reading this book as a skeptic- I had not considered myself a Mormon feminist. After reading this, I am. I am not discontent in my role in my Church, and don't feel diminished in the sight of God or man. But I do see that there are others around me who do feel so. It needn't be, when it is so often lack of understanding, rather than lack of caring, that allows poor traditions to stand.
She explained and highlighted some challenges that some women face in the LDS Church as a result of cultural changes and expectations. I'm not going to summarize these as I don't have the book at hand, but this is what I took away from my reading.
It is not enough to look at someone struggling and to say "If you don't like it, hit the bricks," simply because it isn't a struggle for us, personally. There is merit in hearing what someone has to say, rather than simply assuming we know what their struggle is.
It's important to look at things that we do as part of our worship and ask ourselves: is this mandated, or a tradition without foundation other than time?
If females, especially our young girls and young women, are having a hard time truly seeing their place in the Church, and what role they have, we aren't showing them enough the impact and power that women have in the service of God. They need to see other women- speaking, teaching, serving, and recognized. Not for praise, but so that men and women, old and young, all see that we all have a contribution to make.
There should be more parity between the programs we offer our young men and boys, and our young women and girls. Granted that the Scouting program is historical and entrenched and expensive- we can still work to offer more for our young women. In a culture where marriage and family are increasingly delayed, and sometimes (far too often) denied for various reasons, exposure to job possibilities, practical skills, and a world beyond making scripture covers, modesty, makeovers, and journaling is going to be so important for our young women.
As women, we need to stop picking on each other. We each have different challenges. To say "if she would only-" is to imagine the tiny slice of what we see on social media or at Church is all there is to know about someone- and then to judge accordingly.
I began reading this book as a skeptic- I had not considered myself a Mormon feminist. After reading this, I am. I am not discontent in my role in my Church, and don't feel diminished in the sight of God or man. But I do see that there are others around me who do feel so. It needn't be, when it is so often lack of understanding, rather than lack of caring, that allows poor traditions to stand.
September 4, 2014
This is not most mormon feminists' favorite book. You may think with how I've been promoting the things Neylan has been saying lately that she is my favorite person and that her views match mine. They don't. She may understand and empathize with my position, but she is decidedly traditional and conservative in maintaining gendered spaces and continued complimentarianism within the LDS Church. There are definitely some pages and sections that I was uncomfortable with and are not my favorite; so take heart, ye non-mormon-feminists, there shall likely be much you like herein.
The book's basic premise is this:
1) the policies and structure of the Church will not change anytime soon
2) there is currently a group of women struggling with the status quo
3) why you should care about them, why are they struggling?
4) do our practices match our doctrines?
5) why shouldn't we make small changes that would help women who are struggling? what can we do locally to improve church experiences?
My basic conclusion is this: Neylan wrote a whole book without using the word "feminist." She wants to be able to have a conversation about women in the church without triggering haterz. She's not on my same page but she gets me. I can handle that. I don't think most people in my sphere of influence "get me." I consider her on the middle of a bridge between Mormon feminists and True Believing (never having doubts) Mormons. She was given FAIR Mormon's Award of Excellence 2014 (FAIR is a fairly conservative Mormon "defenders" group). The past few years have been an attempt at these two groups talking at and past each other. There has been very little listening or willingness for either side to make concessions (seemingly, I know I'm oversimplifying, but bear with me). Here is someone who is asking both sides to just listen. Slow down first, and listen.
Some of Neylan's small changes she suggests local wards/stakes might implement include: providing equivalent opportunities for youth, allowing YW to have a female companion in bishops interviews, preparing YW for church service, reviewing the rhetoric of how we praise women in general (instead of individuals), empowering female leaders with appropriate titles, using female sources of doctrine, improve how men speak at and to women, and providing more service/relief opportunities. Each of these can be done without any directives from SLC.
I'm a moderate Mormon feminist who advocates for changes via baby steps. If I had my druthers my top 3 immediate changes would be to:
1) equalize structure and funding of youth programs (activity days)
2) We are losing a LOT of single and infertile women; recognize not all our daughters/sisters/YW will be wives or mothers, and structure our lessons and programs to focus on discipleship in whatever form it may take, without valuing one type of discipleship more than another. I think my highest and holiest calling is to be Christlike, not motherhood 3) replace all "mother/wife" day worship with RS study and teachings of Christ; there is more to womanhood than wife/motherhood, (ie don't celebrate mother's day at church [@home] but use it to speak abt Eliza R Snow, or stories of female disciples during Christ's time, or just Him); 4) in addition have Teachings of the Prophetess Eliza R. Snow for a RS/PH manual, etc.
I suppose I could fit all of these changes into her categories, but my desired changes require change from the top down. The opposite direction Neylan suggests, she uses as her "muse" church member and Harvard professor Clayton Christensen's "disruptive innovation" theory that in large bureaucratic institutions, needed change often happens from the ground up. As frustrating as it is to acknowledge I don't see any of my first 3 desired changes coming any time soon - the only option I have left is following the pattern of #womenatchruch.
1) use this book to have uplifting and constructive conversations with friends, family, ward members, local leaders
2) do what you can, then let it go
I fear this is my only option. Yet it still gives me hope.
___________________
Further info:
By Common Consent Book Review
The Problem with Local Change, by Julie Smith
Forget Phood, some MoFems seek a middle way
The book's basic premise is this:
1) the policies and structure of the Church will not change anytime soon
2) there is currently a group of women struggling with the status quo
3) why you should care about them, why are they struggling?
4) do our practices match our doctrines?
5) why shouldn't we make small changes that would help women who are struggling? what can we do locally to improve church experiences?
My basic conclusion is this: Neylan wrote a whole book without using the word "feminist." She wants to be able to have a conversation about women in the church without triggering haterz. She's not on my same page but she gets me. I can handle that. I don't think most people in my sphere of influence "get me." I consider her on the middle of a bridge between Mormon feminists and True Believing (never having doubts) Mormons. She was given FAIR Mormon's Award of Excellence 2014 (FAIR is a fairly conservative Mormon "defenders" group). The past few years have been an attempt at these two groups talking at and past each other. There has been very little listening or willingness for either side to make concessions (seemingly, I know I'm oversimplifying, but bear with me). Here is someone who is asking both sides to just listen. Slow down first, and listen.
Some of Neylan's small changes she suggests local wards/stakes might implement include: providing equivalent opportunities for youth, allowing YW to have a female companion in bishops interviews, preparing YW for church service, reviewing the rhetoric of how we praise women in general (instead of individuals), empowering female leaders with appropriate titles, using female sources of doctrine, improve how men speak at and to women, and providing more service/relief opportunities. Each of these can be done without any directives from SLC.
I'm a moderate Mormon feminist who advocates for changes via baby steps. If I had my druthers my top 3 immediate changes would be to:
1) equalize structure and funding of youth programs (activity days)
2) We are losing a LOT of single and infertile women; recognize not all our daughters/sisters/YW will be wives or mothers, and structure our lessons and programs to focus on discipleship in whatever form it may take, without valuing one type of discipleship more than another. I think my highest and holiest calling is to be Christlike, not motherhood 3) replace all "mother/wife" day worship with RS study and teachings of Christ; there is more to womanhood than wife/motherhood, (ie don't celebrate mother's day at church [@home] but use it to speak abt Eliza R Snow, or stories of female disciples during Christ's time, or just Him); 4) in addition have Teachings of the Prophetess Eliza R. Snow for a RS/PH manual, etc.
I suppose I could fit all of these changes into her categories, but my desired changes require change from the top down. The opposite direction Neylan suggests, she uses as her "muse" church member and Harvard professor Clayton Christensen's "disruptive innovation" theory that in large bureaucratic institutions, needed change often happens from the ground up. As frustrating as it is to acknowledge I don't see any of my first 3 desired changes coming any time soon - the only option I have left is following the pattern of #womenatchruch.
1) use this book to have uplifting and constructive conversations with friends, family, ward members, local leaders
2) do what you can, then let it go
I fear this is my only option. Yet it still gives me hope.
___________________
Further info:
By Common Consent Book Review
The Problem with Local Change, by Julie Smith
Forget Phood, some MoFems seek a middle way
February 18, 2015
This is the book I wish I could give to everyone. Of course, not everyone would be willing to READ it, but still. I highlighted the crap out of the thing, while saying words like, "Yes! THIS."
Neylan McBaine spends the first half of the book explaining what she sees as the tensions within the Church based on the different ways that women and men experience Church culture, doctrine, and policies. Her thesis is that inequalities DO exist, and that they cause pain for many women. She asserts that if members of our community are in pain, that's something we should all care about, try to understand, and work to alleviate if it's within our power. The second half of the book has a more practical approach as she discusses procedural adaptations she has seen within wards and stakes to better meet the needs and utilize the talents of the sisters. The result of these (sometimes quite small) changes is that women are better heard, better seen, and better included, particularly in decision-making forums (which is where women start getting scarce the higher up you go).
Neylan McBaine walks the difficult line of a faithful moderate. Conservative members of the Church may think she's going too far, and feminist members may think she's not going far enough. (I personally had some moments where I wish she'd been more bold and less deferential, but I understand that she wants to be effective rather than divisive.)
I would give this book to anyone who says, "I honestly do not get it. I do not understand where these women are coming from." And to anyone who says, "What problem?" And to anyone who says, "If you really understood the gospel you would see that Everything is Awesome," except I would maybe hand it to them in the face. And I'd give it to anyone who HAS experienced frustrations, large or small, and would be thrilled to see them so well-articulated.
Neylan McBaine spends the first half of the book explaining what she sees as the tensions within the Church based on the different ways that women and men experience Church culture, doctrine, and policies. Her thesis is that inequalities DO exist, and that they cause pain for many women. She asserts that if members of our community are in pain, that's something we should all care about, try to understand, and work to alleviate if it's within our power. The second half of the book has a more practical approach as she discusses procedural adaptations she has seen within wards and stakes to better meet the needs and utilize the talents of the sisters. The result of these (sometimes quite small) changes is that women are better heard, better seen, and better included, particularly in decision-making forums (which is where women start getting scarce the higher up you go).
Neylan McBaine walks the difficult line of a faithful moderate. Conservative members of the Church may think she's going too far, and feminist members may think she's not going far enough. (I personally had some moments where I wish she'd been more bold and less deferential, but I understand that she wants to be effective rather than divisive.)
I would give this book to anyone who says, "I honestly do not get it. I do not understand where these women are coming from." And to anyone who says, "What problem?" And to anyone who says, "If you really understood the gospel you would see that Everything is Awesome," except I would maybe hand it to them in the face. And I'd give it to anyone who HAS experienced frustrations, large or small, and would be thrilled to see them so well-articulated.
June 21, 2023
Loved this. I like that the author actually wants this book to be obsolete someday and I really think this could use an updated version as its 10 years old and many things she brings up as already been improved. Many more could be implemented too and I appreciated that it wasn’t a blame game but rather both men and women need to get on board and work together.
September 22, 2014
The best thing about Women at Church, in my opinion, is McBaine's faithful approach and positive semantics. The book is a vehicle for starting a conversation about gender, regardless of where you are in the divide.
I don't usually stew over, and often do not even see, the gender issues very clearly in my own life (I just don't get worked up over them, I guess) but I am learning that others do and that I need to become better at acknowledging their hurts.
Neylan offers ideas that, if incorporated on a local level first, have the potential to quietly and effectively change policies for the entire church. Her suggestions have the power to make us much more inclusive of others and more like a Zion people.
I devoured this one. A great read! I plan to give multiple copies away to all my friends and family. It's worth the read.
I don't usually stew over, and often do not even see, the gender issues very clearly in my own life (I just don't get worked up over them, I guess) but I am learning that others do and that I need to become better at acknowledging their hurts.
Neylan offers ideas that, if incorporated on a local level first, have the potential to quietly and effectively change policies for the entire church. Her suggestions have the power to make us much more inclusive of others and more like a Zion people.
I devoured this one. A great read! I plan to give multiple copies away to all my friends and family. It's worth the read.
May 26, 2016
Read with Provo bookgroup May 2016
Let this book stagnate by bedside for a good week or so, hesitating to pick it up. Always been one of those politely uninterested in the topic. One of those who doesn't sympathize entirely because, fortunately, never really experiencing "gender inequality" in my church. Always been very distant and frankly patronizing in thought to those pushy Mormon feminists.
Finally picked it up as bookgroup was approaching. Ended up swallowing it whole in one day.
Liked her approach very much. Liked her positive, non-combative ideas. Liked how many times I found myself thinking "huh, yeah, why NOT?" or "why?"
I know that many Mormon feminists don't like this book because McBaine is trying to work within what we've got now instead of fighting for radical changes. But she says that a combative attitude rarely wins friends and influences people so why not be nice when you want something?
Wish it had been my book, I would have marked it all up. Wish I owned it so I could go back to it (will buy it eventually when I want to spend the cash). Wish I had made a list, while reading, of all the ideas that resonated with me.
McBaine's goal was to help us all understand each other a little better. To help those like me who just don't get the gals with the gender issues give them more credit (not to necessarily agree, but simply to acknowledge their issues).
I came away feeling like I had a better understanding of what kind of person I want to be. Not a feminist. Not an anti-feminist. A human-ist. NO not a humanist. A person who loves everyone and wants to help all get along in love and unity, understanding that we are all children of God with different issues and trials, to be respected because of our status as human beings, created and loved by a loving and careful Father.
Lots more I could say. I feel this book would be so beneficial if every Mormon read it. My husband is reading it right now because he loves the women in his life and would LOVE it if they always felt they were as important as they indeed are. I would just like us all to open our eyes to the ways we can make each other feel more included, more needed, more special and more loved. To quietly and kindly challenge some sort of stupid church traditions while not challenging God's current revealed doctrine.
Let this book stagnate by bedside for a good week or so, hesitating to pick it up. Always been one of those politely uninterested in the topic. One of those who doesn't sympathize entirely because, fortunately, never really experiencing "gender inequality" in my church. Always been very distant and frankly patronizing in thought to those pushy Mormon feminists.
Finally picked it up as bookgroup was approaching. Ended up swallowing it whole in one day.
Liked her approach very much. Liked her positive, non-combative ideas. Liked how many times I found myself thinking "huh, yeah, why NOT?" or "why?"
I know that many Mormon feminists don't like this book because McBaine is trying to work within what we've got now instead of fighting for radical changes. But she says that a combative attitude rarely wins friends and influences people so why not be nice when you want something?
Wish it had been my book, I would have marked it all up. Wish I owned it so I could go back to it (will buy it eventually when I want to spend the cash). Wish I had made a list, while reading, of all the ideas that resonated with me.
McBaine's goal was to help us all understand each other a little better. To help those like me who just don't get the gals with the gender issues give them more credit (not to necessarily agree, but simply to acknowledge their issues).
I came away feeling like I had a better understanding of what kind of person I want to be. Not a feminist. Not an anti-feminist. A human-ist. NO not a humanist. A person who loves everyone and wants to help all get along in love and unity, understanding that we are all children of God with different issues and trials, to be respected because of our status as human beings, created and loved by a loving and careful Father.
Lots more I could say. I feel this book would be so beneficial if every Mormon read it. My husband is reading it right now because he loves the women in his life and would LOVE it if they always felt they were as important as they indeed are. I would just like us all to open our eyes to the ways we can make each other feel more included, more needed, more special and more loved. To quietly and kindly challenge some sort of stupid church traditions while not challenging God's current revealed doctrine.
June 28, 2015
In this book McBaine walks a very difficult middle ground. She tries to articulate why many women find the status quo unsatisfying while not pushing for systemic change. All her suggestions are meant to be implemented locally, but some of these problems can only be resolved through top-down change.
I think McBaine accomplishes her established purpose. This book is good for those who don't see the problems. It is very, very gentle about articulating those problems. At times, I think, she was too gentle. Over and over as she discussed the disconnect between our doctrine of equality and the failure of our practice to exercise equality she would say "I'm not saying this is wrong; I'm saying it's hard." I get that she's trying not to push traditionalists away, but I was frustrated that she wouldn't call a spade a spade. It IS wrong to claim doctrinal equality without practicing it.
That said, I think this book is helpful for many people.
I think McBaine accomplishes her established purpose. This book is good for those who don't see the problems. It is very, very gentle about articulating those problems. At times, I think, she was too gentle. Over and over as she discussed the disconnect between our doctrine of equality and the failure of our practice to exercise equality she would say "I'm not saying this is wrong; I'm saying it's hard." I get that she's trying not to push traditionalists away, but I was frustrated that she wouldn't call a spade a spade. It IS wrong to claim doctrinal equality without practicing it.
That said, I think this book is helpful for many people.
March 12, 2018
Honestly this should be required reading for all LDS peeps. I know there are many conservative Mormons who will be skeptical to read a “feminist” Mormon book - but give it a try. Listen to what women are experiencing at church. Let’s make it better. We have got a lot of work to do.
March 10, 2021
This book is very practical and super needed -- it's so important to talk about women at church and how we can empower ourselves to make changes within the existing framework. Her book is based on several qualitative interviews with women in the LDS church, and I appreciated reading many of the specific examples, i.e. the woman who asked to hold her baby during the baby blessing, the stake that improves visibility & recognition of the stake RS presidency, wards which recognize that Young Women activities shouldn't all be fashion shows and makeover nights, etc.
I did also gain a lot of empathy for our elderly leaders from the section where she details how few rights women had in 1962 and how much of their lives they'd already lived -- they've come a long way since then & it's hard to overcome the culture and socialization of your upbringing.
I wish she'd talked in more depth about our doctrine and cultural response to Heavenly Mother. I feel like a discussion of Her is incredibly relevant to the topic at hand, yet She was only mentioned in passing a couple of times.
Also, while I really did enjoy most of the book, I really struggled with her section in chapter 4 called "Disconnect between doctrine and practice of equality" (a great title-but the content confused me). She spent the entire chapter up to this point explaining why some women are in pain and how we need to listen to and empathize with those women. However, this section seemed a little jarring to me because she seemed to accept uncritically some leaders' teachings that equal doesn't mean equally represented in leadership or handbooks, it just means equally valued. I totally get that equal doesn't need to mean identical, but she doesn't seem to even consider that perhaps our current system of male over-representation in church leadership might be man-made rather than divinely inspired. Anyways, it was a small part about a book that overall I found very useful--but this section just seemed so inconsistent with the rest of the chapter. By completely shutting down the possibility that the structure is sexist and needs divine reform, it made me feel exactly as if my concerns were unheard and invalid, which is what she was trying to address. I even read it again after I finished the rest of the book to see if I misunderstood. I know she's advocating for making local changes within the existing Handbook framework and that she needs to appeal to a conservative audience, and while I can see the merits in that, I thought there would be more room in this section for suggesting that perhaps this isn't the way it should be.
I did also gain a lot of empathy for our elderly leaders from the section where she details how few rights women had in 1962 and how much of their lives they'd already lived -- they've come a long way since then & it's hard to overcome the culture and socialization of your upbringing.
I wish she'd talked in more depth about our doctrine and cultural response to Heavenly Mother. I feel like a discussion of Her is incredibly relevant to the topic at hand, yet She was only mentioned in passing a couple of times.
Also, while I really did enjoy most of the book, I really struggled with her section in chapter 4 called "Disconnect between doctrine and practice of equality" (a great title-but the content confused me). She spent the entire chapter up to this point explaining why some women are in pain and how we need to listen to and empathize with those women. However, this section seemed a little jarring to me because she seemed to accept uncritically some leaders' teachings that equal doesn't mean equally represented in leadership or handbooks, it just means equally valued. I totally get that equal doesn't need to mean identical, but she doesn't seem to even consider that perhaps our current system of male over-representation in church leadership might be man-made rather than divinely inspired. Anyways, it was a small part about a book that overall I found very useful--but this section just seemed so inconsistent with the rest of the chapter. By completely shutting down the possibility that the structure is sexist and needs divine reform, it made me feel exactly as if my concerns were unheard and invalid, which is what she was trying to address. I even read it again after I finished the rest of the book to see if I misunderstood. I know she's advocating for making local changes within the existing Handbook framework and that she needs to appeal to a conservative audience, and while I can see the merits in that, I thought there would be more room in this section for suggesting that perhaps this isn't the way it should be.
March 20, 2018
This book validated so many of my feelings. The first part was wonderful for this reason. I felt understood and heard. It also helped me clarify so much of what I feel and experience in the church. I loved how it discussed possible changes within the current doctrine/church handbook. The second half was more difficult to get through for me. I think at times it seemed like there was just so much culture that needed to change pertaining to women that I'd get overwhelmed and hopeless. But I wish every member of the church would read this. I want to hand it out like the Book of Mormon.
September 18, 2015
The author is a true believer who sees examples of gender inequality and plans to stick around and try to improve it. Her premise is basically "I doubt that female ordination will happen any time soon, but here are a hundred other ways that we can make women more seen, heard, and appreciated within the Mormon church."
She explains why you should care about these things even if you personally feel great about your place as a woman in the church, and follows with a ton of suggestions that could be made on the local level.
The list of passages and thought-provoking ideas that I loved is very long, so I'll choose one point that I'd never considered before: If you asked men and women of the church, "Who are your female spiritual leaders?" who would they list?
She explains why you should care about these things even if you personally feel great about your place as a woman in the church, and follows with a ton of suggestions that could be made on the local level.
The list of passages and thought-provoking ideas that I loved is very long, so I'll choose one point that I'd never considered before: If you asked men and women of the church, "Who are your female spiritual leaders?" who would they list?
July 18, 2018
This took me awhile to get through because I highlighted and really wanted to process the words. It was so good! I think every member of the Mormon church should read this book. Written through a faithful and positive approach, but not mincing words about hard issues members (especially women) face in the church. Though the church as a whole is just touching the surface with so many of these issues, Neylan McBlaine did such a great job expressing thoughts and feelings from many perspectives.
September 16, 2016
Great book, wish every member of our church would read it. I was worried it might be subversive or make me feel bad, but not at all, full of great history and great ideas. Really points to the difference between doctrine and culture and what you can improve in your own local setting.
April 14, 2018
This book is so dense and requires so much reflection. I absolutely loved it though. I have struggled with feeling like an outcast in my religion for so long but this book has shown me that other women feel similarly and how we can work together to bring more truth into the gospel.
July 25, 2014
McBaine's book is an insightful, pragmatic, and desperately needed voice during this time in the LDS Church. I highly recommend it and plan on giving copies to several of my friends and family.
September 15, 2014
I really appreciate this book. It's not without its faults--this former editor cringed at some glaring proofreading errors; and to me, the repeated statement that certain Church traditions "are not wrong; they're just hard" was really beating a dead horse in terms of reaching out to more conservative readers which I realize is her goal...because guess what...I believe that some of the more chauvinistic traditions are in fact wrong! but that doesn't mean I don't sustain the prophet.--but overall it is a kind, earnest, eager hand reaching across aisles and trying to involve everyone in the great movement of increasing women's visibility and worth in the LDS Church--or in any church, but the specifics here are for LDS people. It begins with a history of women in the Church, then "identifying the divide" (between people who think everything's dandy and people who think we need change) and "exploring solutions."
I think we as a church have made some really big strides recently when it comes to women's issues. I could link to all kinds of blog posts that say much better than I could why greater visibility is vital for women--for those who think women who want more of a voice in their congregations are just being prideful, one post title comes to mind, "Not power, but confidence and faith." I love that sister missionaries can now start younger and are starting to receive leadership training and experience that up to this point has been sorely lacking. But there is so much more that needs to happen. From McBaine:
"Hearing, seeing, and including women isn't just about putting out more videos about them or giving them a seat on the stand....It's about asking ourselves whether or not we hear women's contributions as authoritative. It's about asking ourselves why we take a bathroom break during the female speaker in general conference. It's about rooting out those hard-wired perceptions that make us believe women "nag" while men "assert." It's about ridding ourselves, once and for all, of the pernicious belief widely held by the Greco-Roman founders of our oratory and linguistic culture that women who speak publicly are "pernicious freaks," as one Ancient Greek scholar called women who advocated to speak in their senate. We've only been at this cultural shift for a fraction of our known history; we cannot have rooted it out entirely already, but we are getting closer." (145)
I loved this excerpt from Eliza R. Snow's address to the Relief Society in 1873: "We [women] are to be progressing, and growing better. If we have done well today, we must do still better tomorrow. We believe in eternal progression. It will not do to say that we have so much to do that we cannot do anymore, because the works and duties for women in Zion are constantly increasing. Nowhere on the earth has woman so broad a sphere of labor and duty of responsibility and action as in Utah." (145) I hear this argument frequently from women who specifically don't want the priesthood--"we already have too much to do." I don't particularly want the priesthood myself (honestly I'll be fine either way) but I firmly believe that women, including young women, won't get more out of church unless women are willing to work harder. I think it was from the oft-circulated FAIR speech of a few months ago where I heard this idea that young women are learning to be passive because young men do so much of the work in the ward. That has to change, and it will cause some growing pains but it has to happen.
One of my favorite anecdotes was of McBaine's male colleague who mentioned offhand that he didn't pay much attention to women in the scriptures because he just couldn't relate to them. Immediately he realized the irony of what he had said. I think a lot of men realize this, a lot more than used to, and that is wonderful. I myself have grown up my entire life identifying with men and women in the scriptures: not only Sariah and Esther and Mary but also Nephi and Moroni and Helaman and Alma, just automatically adjusting the pronouns so that it applies to me. But when I asked my husband the other day if he knew the story of Naomi and Ruth, which Relief Society sisters are force-fed regularly, he couldn't tell me anything about them. (I say "force-fed" although I really do love the loyalty and love of Naomi and Ruth. :) "We have to overcome the deep-seated cultural bias that statements and talks and books by men are universally applicable, but statements and talks and books by women are for a subset of the population: women." (151) "The assumption that men can teach both men and women but women can only teach women is so deeply ingrained in our culture at large that most of us have probably never even considered its implications." (159)
Finally, another anecdote that touched me was of a priesthood leader visiting girls' camp. He admitted to the girls that he didn't know what to say to connect with them, and he basically turned the time over to them by asking them their thoughts on the subject of "light," which then, as the girls talked, turned to "beauty," which is such an aching, precious, elusive quality for young women. The meeting was electric with love and compassion and seeking for understanding, and all present could feel it. McBaine explains, "This man's humility, his willingness to mourn with those he was addressing rather than instruct or inform, seemed to be keys that unlocked this woman's heart. As this example shows, sometimes the power of our words is determined not by what we actually say but by how the listener perceives us to be presenting ourselves. In this case, the listener perceived the speaker to be speaking from a place of humility, differentiating himself from the girls and women by acknowledging gaps in his understanding. In contrast, he could have claimed additional insight into their identities by virtue of his being a man and priesthood leader, which wouldn't have sat well with this female listener. It also wouldn't have sat well with this listener if he had tried to diminish differences between himself and the girls and had claimed to understand them. But because he allowed there to be space between his experience and the girls' experiences, rather than trying to collapse that space, he actually generated an even closer bond and a greater atmosphere of trust." (160-161)
This review is already too long, but I just want to recommend the book to all women and men in the LDS Church, whether or not they are interested in bridging the gap between what women are and what we could be. I'd give it 4.5 stars if I could. (at least half a star off for the proofreading errors and some scattered cliches--sorry!) I think McBaine has done a beautiful job of convincing those who are not yet interested, to become interested. I'd love to give a copy to my (in my opinion and experience, open-minded and caring, despite some recent major publicity insinuating that he could be otherwise) stake president. I should probably ask him if he already has one, though--I wouldn't be surprised if he does. I'll definitely be recommending it specifically to some other men and women I know, and hope to participate sometime soon in a discussion with several women who came to the book with a variety of perspectives. I'd love to hear their thoughts.
I think we as a church have made some really big strides recently when it comes to women's issues. I could link to all kinds of blog posts that say much better than I could why greater visibility is vital for women--for those who think women who want more of a voice in their congregations are just being prideful, one post title comes to mind, "Not power, but confidence and faith." I love that sister missionaries can now start younger and are starting to receive leadership training and experience that up to this point has been sorely lacking. But there is so much more that needs to happen. From McBaine:
"Hearing, seeing, and including women isn't just about putting out more videos about them or giving them a seat on the stand....It's about asking ourselves whether or not we hear women's contributions as authoritative. It's about asking ourselves why we take a bathroom break during the female speaker in general conference. It's about rooting out those hard-wired perceptions that make us believe women "nag" while men "assert." It's about ridding ourselves, once and for all, of the pernicious belief widely held by the Greco-Roman founders of our oratory and linguistic culture that women who speak publicly are "pernicious freaks," as one Ancient Greek scholar called women who advocated to speak in their senate. We've only been at this cultural shift for a fraction of our known history; we cannot have rooted it out entirely already, but we are getting closer." (145)
I loved this excerpt from Eliza R. Snow's address to the Relief Society in 1873: "We [women] are to be progressing, and growing better. If we have done well today, we must do still better tomorrow. We believe in eternal progression. It will not do to say that we have so much to do that we cannot do anymore, because the works and duties for women in Zion are constantly increasing. Nowhere on the earth has woman so broad a sphere of labor and duty of responsibility and action as in Utah." (145) I hear this argument frequently from women who specifically don't want the priesthood--"we already have too much to do." I don't particularly want the priesthood myself (honestly I'll be fine either way) but I firmly believe that women, including young women, won't get more out of church unless women are willing to work harder. I think it was from the oft-circulated FAIR speech of a few months ago where I heard this idea that young women are learning to be passive because young men do so much of the work in the ward. That has to change, and it will cause some growing pains but it has to happen.
One of my favorite anecdotes was of McBaine's male colleague who mentioned offhand that he didn't pay much attention to women in the scriptures because he just couldn't relate to them. Immediately he realized the irony of what he had said. I think a lot of men realize this, a lot more than used to, and that is wonderful. I myself have grown up my entire life identifying with men and women in the scriptures: not only Sariah and Esther and Mary but also Nephi and Moroni and Helaman and Alma, just automatically adjusting the pronouns so that it applies to me. But when I asked my husband the other day if he knew the story of Naomi and Ruth, which Relief Society sisters are force-fed regularly, he couldn't tell me anything about them. (I say "force-fed" although I really do love the loyalty and love of Naomi and Ruth. :) "We have to overcome the deep-seated cultural bias that statements and talks and books by men are universally applicable, but statements and talks and books by women are for a subset of the population: women." (151) "The assumption that men can teach both men and women but women can only teach women is so deeply ingrained in our culture at large that most of us have probably never even considered its implications." (159)
Finally, another anecdote that touched me was of a priesthood leader visiting girls' camp. He admitted to the girls that he didn't know what to say to connect with them, and he basically turned the time over to them by asking them their thoughts on the subject of "light," which then, as the girls talked, turned to "beauty," which is such an aching, precious, elusive quality for young women. The meeting was electric with love and compassion and seeking for understanding, and all present could feel it. McBaine explains, "This man's humility, his willingness to mourn with those he was addressing rather than instruct or inform, seemed to be keys that unlocked this woman's heart. As this example shows, sometimes the power of our words is determined not by what we actually say but by how the listener perceives us to be presenting ourselves. In this case, the listener perceived the speaker to be speaking from a place of humility, differentiating himself from the girls and women by acknowledging gaps in his understanding. In contrast, he could have claimed additional insight into their identities by virtue of his being a man and priesthood leader, which wouldn't have sat well with this female listener. It also wouldn't have sat well with this listener if he had tried to diminish differences between himself and the girls and had claimed to understand them. But because he allowed there to be space between his experience and the girls' experiences, rather than trying to collapse that space, he actually generated an even closer bond and a greater atmosphere of trust." (160-161)
This review is already too long, but I just want to recommend the book to all women and men in the LDS Church, whether or not they are interested in bridging the gap between what women are and what we could be. I'd give it 4.5 stars if I could. (at least half a star off for the proofreading errors and some scattered cliches--sorry!) I think McBaine has done a beautiful job of convincing those who are not yet interested, to become interested. I'd love to give a copy to my (in my opinion and experience, open-minded and caring, despite some recent major publicity insinuating that he could be otherwise) stake president. I should probably ask him if he already has one, though--I wouldn't be surprised if he does. I'll definitely be recommending it specifically to some other men and women I know, and hope to participate sometime soon in a discussion with several women who came to the book with a variety of perspectives. I'd love to hear their thoughts.
February 29, 2016
this is a great book with great suggestions and a helpful and interesting history of women in the church. i would love to see church leaders and members who haven't had a hard time fitting in at church read it, as it is a moderate approach to a hot topic and palatable for the more conservative set without doing too much finger-pointing. that said, it was depressing for the first half, and then the second half was productive with useful suggestions. overall i think it's important that church members and leaders are aware of women's unique needs, and i wish that a lot of the traditions that went away with the establishment of correlation would come back (changes that i didn't know about until i read this book—i'm not very well-versed in my church history, though that's something i'd like to change after reading this). there are a few examples of small changes in the book that i wasn't very interested in—for example, the importance of the title "president" when talking to female leaders—and i don't necessarily think that they contribute to greater visibility for women in the church. i think that the most important cultural and curricular changes will be made with the young women's organization so that a lot of the issues for women in the church that have come up in the past few years are addressed early on in a young church member's life. i found the suggestions and anecdotes about teaching our youth to be the most helpful, as a lot of the stories relating conflict among older church members just sounded like there were personality clashes at work (which is a universal issue and not unique to church settings).
the criticism i've read about the book is in regards to the "bottom-up" approach of fixing problems for women's visibility and participation in the church—i.e., it's just not enough to have local leaders advocating for change, we need broad structural change—which is certainly valid when it pertains to things that could easily be addressed in the church handbook of instruction or in our curriculum, like the RS manual not being written by women anymore, etc. but what i appreciate about mcbaine's approach is that it is a heads up to regular people in a regular congregation that women at church are struggling—just browsing through facebook after kate kelly's excommunication made it very clear to me that there is a huge disparity between the church members i respect and associate with on a regular basis (ie, open-minded, vocal, embracing people who are different, etc.) and my more conservative family members and acquaintances who are more likely to criticize those who push against the status quo and are blissfully unaware of women who want a voice (both in and out of the church). in that respect i actually am living in as much of a bubble as those conservative acquaintances are, because i have been very lucky to live in areas and wards/branches that are diverse and progressive. i like that i would be able to recommend this book as a primer on women's visibility at church or just hand it over to a local leader that i thought might benefit from it. in that sense i feel like i have some control over what i'm trying to do to improve the situation for women, if that makes sense.
my other issue with the criticism of approaching at the local level is that despite church doctrine stating otherwise, local leaders and congregations are still human and will continue to do things "their" way or however they've done it forever (which is why my RS presidency still does the Good News Minute...). it's just human nature and official changes aren't necessarily going to improve the state of women, but the local influence will! i think it's important for people who are more progressive to stick around in their congregations to influence their community, which is why i am still using facebook despite the growing number of acquaintances i have who post stuff they learned from fox news.
i do hope that women overall become more confident in pushing for the things that they want out of church, or at least voicing their hopes, fears, and concerns and standing up for them when faced with questions (which happened to me a lot when i served on a ward council as YW president—i could have done much more but that's a discussion for another time). one of the chapters addresses how we (women) can be our own worst enemies in the church by "enforcing" things that aren't doctrinally important but are traditions in our culture, at the risk of alienating those in our stewardship. i am reminded of the time when i was the RS music coordinator and decided to have our sisters sing primary songs as the 5 minute music activity every 1st sunday (which, by the way, is a TRADITION and not part of official sunday business, so i don't think there's a right or wrong way to do it), because many of our sisters were converts and not familiar with the songs to be able to sing them with their kids or just to be enriched by the uplifting music. this was met with lots of enthusiasm and women would come up to me afterward to thank me for introducing a particular song to them and how meaningful the message was. however, the 1st counselor in the RS presidency approached me and told me that she wanted me to start choosing songs out of the "big girl" hymnal instead. i regret my very passive-aggressive reaction, which was to go to a member of the bishopric and ask him to release me from my calling. granted, i did have two other callings at the time and felt overwhelmed as it was and wasn't giving a lot of attention to any of the callings, but i just hated being told what to do with a calling that i wasn't getting any help or instruction with in the first place. we also ended up moving out of the ward shortly after that experience—for a variety of reasons, but one of them was that this sister was so controlling overall that it became uncomfortable for me to be in the same room as her each sunday. after reading some of the experiences in the book, i realize that i should have just stood up for myself but in a respectful way. women (actually, mormons in general) seem to be more passive-aggressive than men and let grievances like this stew for such a long time, and i can see why people walk away from the church after being offended or embarrassed by another leader. not that i'm saying it's the right choice, but the feelings are real.
anyway, i've let this review turn into a confessional of sorts. i would really like to focus my future efforts in the church on my personal spiritual development by reading more church history written by our "spiritual foremothers" (mcbaine's term), helping strengthen the young people in my stewardship, and praying for inspiration in teachable moments for my own daughter.
the criticism i've read about the book is in regards to the "bottom-up" approach of fixing problems for women's visibility and participation in the church—i.e., it's just not enough to have local leaders advocating for change, we need broad structural change—which is certainly valid when it pertains to things that could easily be addressed in the church handbook of instruction or in our curriculum, like the RS manual not being written by women anymore, etc. but what i appreciate about mcbaine's approach is that it is a heads up to regular people in a regular congregation that women at church are struggling—just browsing through facebook after kate kelly's excommunication made it very clear to me that there is a huge disparity between the church members i respect and associate with on a regular basis (ie, open-minded, vocal, embracing people who are different, etc.) and my more conservative family members and acquaintances who are more likely to criticize those who push against the status quo and are blissfully unaware of women who want a voice (both in and out of the church). in that respect i actually am living in as much of a bubble as those conservative acquaintances are, because i have been very lucky to live in areas and wards/branches that are diverse and progressive. i like that i would be able to recommend this book as a primer on women's visibility at church or just hand it over to a local leader that i thought might benefit from it. in that sense i feel like i have some control over what i'm trying to do to improve the situation for women, if that makes sense.
my other issue with the criticism of approaching at the local level is that despite church doctrine stating otherwise, local leaders and congregations are still human and will continue to do things "their" way or however they've done it forever (which is why my RS presidency still does the Good News Minute...). it's just human nature and official changes aren't necessarily going to improve the state of women, but the local influence will! i think it's important for people who are more progressive to stick around in their congregations to influence their community, which is why i am still using facebook despite the growing number of acquaintances i have who post stuff they learned from fox news.
i do hope that women overall become more confident in pushing for the things that they want out of church, or at least voicing their hopes, fears, and concerns and standing up for them when faced with questions (which happened to me a lot when i served on a ward council as YW president—i could have done much more but that's a discussion for another time). one of the chapters addresses how we (women) can be our own worst enemies in the church by "enforcing" things that aren't doctrinally important but are traditions in our culture, at the risk of alienating those in our stewardship. i am reminded of the time when i was the RS music coordinator and decided to have our sisters sing primary songs as the 5 minute music activity every 1st sunday (which, by the way, is a TRADITION and not part of official sunday business, so i don't think there's a right or wrong way to do it), because many of our sisters were converts and not familiar with the songs to be able to sing them with their kids or just to be enriched by the uplifting music. this was met with lots of enthusiasm and women would come up to me afterward to thank me for introducing a particular song to them and how meaningful the message was. however, the 1st counselor in the RS presidency approached me and told me that she wanted me to start choosing songs out of the "big girl" hymnal instead. i regret my very passive-aggressive reaction, which was to go to a member of the bishopric and ask him to release me from my calling. granted, i did have two other callings at the time and felt overwhelmed as it was and wasn't giving a lot of attention to any of the callings, but i just hated being told what to do with a calling that i wasn't getting any help or instruction with in the first place. we also ended up moving out of the ward shortly after that experience—for a variety of reasons, but one of them was that this sister was so controlling overall that it became uncomfortable for me to be in the same room as her each sunday. after reading some of the experiences in the book, i realize that i should have just stood up for myself but in a respectful way. women (actually, mormons in general) seem to be more passive-aggressive than men and let grievances like this stew for such a long time, and i can see why people walk away from the church after being offended or embarrassed by another leader. not that i'm saying it's the right choice, but the feelings are real.
anyway, i've let this review turn into a confessional of sorts. i would really like to focus my future efforts in the church on my personal spiritual development by reading more church history written by our "spiritual foremothers" (mcbaine's term), helping strengthen the young people in my stewardship, and praying for inspiration in teachable moments for my own daughter.
December 8, 2018
In the Sunday morning session of General Conference this weekend, President Eyring told the story of how he traveled to a “small city far away” to confer the sealing power on a man whose “hands showed the signs of a lifetime of tilling the soil for a meager living.” The man’s wife sat in the room, weeping, and when President Eyring asked her how she felt, “She looked up and then said timidly that she was happy but also sad. She said that she had so loved going to the temple with her husband but that now she felt that she should not go with him because God had chosen him for so glorious and sacred a trust. Then she said that her feeling of being inadequate to be his temple companion came because she could neither read nor write.” President Eyring reassured her and spoke to her about her spiritual gifts, and her great faith in the gospel.
What struck me about this exchange was not just the kindness President Eyring showed, or his ability to discern that this sister had received personal revelations which she held dear, but the fact that her husband’s new church responsibilities highlighted her own feelings of inadequacy. While I don’t know enough about this woman’s life experience to even begin to guess whether her church experiences or experiences in her culture of origin helped shape this feeling, the anecdote highlights the fact that women in the church can struggle with feeling less than their male counterparts. We see men on the stand every Sunday. Our boys pass the sacrament. Few women have the opportunity to work in church leadership. Our religious language is often gendered. There are so few female voices and role models and leaders for us to turn to as examples. As more women work closely with men in the workplace and work toward egalitarian relationships with their male partners, church may be one of the few places where women may feel limited by their gender. I’m not saying that every woman feels this way; many women feel that their membership in the church empowers them. I just want the church to be a place where every member can feel that she belongs.
But enough about me, let’s talk about McBaine’s important book, Women at Church: Magnifying LDS Women’s Local Impact. First, I want to talk about something the book doesn’t do– in a time when the ordination of women has been a hot-button issue, Women at Church doesn’t doesn’t address female ordination. Instead it’s a primer for what leaders and everyday members can do to capitalize on the talents of women in the church. McBaine lays out the mission of the book in the opening sentence: “This book is predicated on a single belief: that there is much more we can do to see, hear, and include women at church.” She continues, “I have written this book as an inducement toward greater empathy for those who feel unseen, unheard, and unused, and a strategic guide to improving our gender cooperation in local Church governance.”
If you’re a woman who has never felt marginalized at church and can’t understand what the fuss is all about, this is the book for you. In Part One of the Women at Church McBaine talks about the history of women in the LDS Church and also explores some of the reasons why women may struggle with their roles in the church, and why women who do struggle deserve empathy, not judgment.
If you’re a church leader who wants to make sure that members in your stewardship feel comfortable in their roles at church, this is the book for you. Part two of Women at Church looks at church practices and examines how we can improve those practices without doctrinal changes.
One of the things I enjoyed most about Women at Church is that McBaine draws from all of the best sources available to her. She has interviewed hundreds of women in her role as the founder of the Mormon Women Project, and she draws on interview, official church sources (including church handbooks), quotes from church leaders, personal experience, and experts in communication, business, and organizational behavior.
When I review a book, I underline passages I might want to quote in my review. When I’m constructing the review, I go back and look at the passages, pick a couple of my favorites, and quote them. However, as I sat down to write this review, I found that I had more than seventy bookmarks in a book that’s less than 200 pages long. While you might say that means that I was playing a little fast and loose with my bookmarks, I think it’s because the book has so much information that’s useful, as well as stories and anecdotes that either resonated with me and reflected my lived experience, or helped me gain empathy by presenting me with different experiences.
McBaine comes at her subject matter as one who is offering helpful suggestions to help the church better meet the needs of its members without changing doctrines or even official policies. She spends a significant amount of time pointing out things that the church does well in regard to gender roles. I especially liked the story about a shy primary president developed leadership skills she wouldn’t have had the chance to develop in her everyday life and those about how women in other parts of the world where gender roles are very clearly delineated often find that joining the church is revolutionary and empowering. But she also doesn’t shrink from pointing out places where our culture and traditions can be limiting, even if unintentionally (which I think was the case in the story President Eyring shared in General Conference). I wholeheartedly recommend Women at Church. Read it yourself, then give a copy to your mom, your husband, your bishop, your Relief Society president, and your best girlfriends.
What struck me about this exchange was not just the kindness President Eyring showed, or his ability to discern that this sister had received personal revelations which she held dear, but the fact that her husband’s new church responsibilities highlighted her own feelings of inadequacy. While I don’t know enough about this woman’s life experience to even begin to guess whether her church experiences or experiences in her culture of origin helped shape this feeling, the anecdote highlights the fact that women in the church can struggle with feeling less than their male counterparts. We see men on the stand every Sunday. Our boys pass the sacrament. Few women have the opportunity to work in church leadership. Our religious language is often gendered. There are so few female voices and role models and leaders for us to turn to as examples. As more women work closely with men in the workplace and work toward egalitarian relationships with their male partners, church may be one of the few places where women may feel limited by their gender. I’m not saying that every woman feels this way; many women feel that their membership in the church empowers them. I just want the church to be a place where every member can feel that she belongs.
But enough about me, let’s talk about McBaine’s important book, Women at Church: Magnifying LDS Women’s Local Impact. First, I want to talk about something the book doesn’t do– in a time when the ordination of women has been a hot-button issue, Women at Church doesn’t doesn’t address female ordination. Instead it’s a primer for what leaders and everyday members can do to capitalize on the talents of women in the church. McBaine lays out the mission of the book in the opening sentence: “This book is predicated on a single belief: that there is much more we can do to see, hear, and include women at church.” She continues, “I have written this book as an inducement toward greater empathy for those who feel unseen, unheard, and unused, and a strategic guide to improving our gender cooperation in local Church governance.”
If you’re a woman who has never felt marginalized at church and can’t understand what the fuss is all about, this is the book for you. In Part One of the Women at Church McBaine talks about the history of women in the LDS Church and also explores some of the reasons why women may struggle with their roles in the church, and why women who do struggle deserve empathy, not judgment.
If you’re a church leader who wants to make sure that members in your stewardship feel comfortable in their roles at church, this is the book for you. Part two of Women at Church looks at church practices and examines how we can improve those practices without doctrinal changes.
One of the things I enjoyed most about Women at Church is that McBaine draws from all of the best sources available to her. She has interviewed hundreds of women in her role as the founder of the Mormon Women Project, and she draws on interview, official church sources (including church handbooks), quotes from church leaders, personal experience, and experts in communication, business, and organizational behavior.
When I review a book, I underline passages I might want to quote in my review. When I’m constructing the review, I go back and look at the passages, pick a couple of my favorites, and quote them. However, as I sat down to write this review, I found that I had more than seventy bookmarks in a book that’s less than 200 pages long. While you might say that means that I was playing a little fast and loose with my bookmarks, I think it’s because the book has so much information that’s useful, as well as stories and anecdotes that either resonated with me and reflected my lived experience, or helped me gain empathy by presenting me with different experiences.
McBaine comes at her subject matter as one who is offering helpful suggestions to help the church better meet the needs of its members without changing doctrines or even official policies. She spends a significant amount of time pointing out things that the church does well in regard to gender roles. I especially liked the story about a shy primary president developed leadership skills she wouldn’t have had the chance to develop in her everyday life and those about how women in other parts of the world where gender roles are very clearly delineated often find that joining the church is revolutionary and empowering. But she also doesn’t shrink from pointing out places where our culture and traditions can be limiting, even if unintentionally (which I think was the case in the story President Eyring shared in General Conference). I wholeheartedly recommend Women at Church. Read it yourself, then give a copy to your mom, your husband, your bishop, your Relief Society president, and your best girlfriends.
February 2, 2020
This book helped me through a tough a time. It helped me know I wasn’t alone in struggling to find my place as a woman in the LDS faith, and it helped me wrangle through my half-formed thoughts in a faithful, productive way. It’s intelligent and faithful throughout, offering wonderful suggestions, ideas, positivity, and straight-talk.
Even since its publication in 2014, it’s encouraging to see some of the author’s suggestions already being incorporated both in the general and local level of the church. It’s great to see Church leaders thinking through these same questions of how to better magnify the impact of women.
I want to give this book to everyone!
Even since its publication in 2014, it’s encouraging to see some of the author’s suggestions already being incorporated both in the general and local level of the church. It’s great to see Church leaders thinking through these same questions of how to better magnify the impact of women.
I want to give this book to everyone!
October 15, 2023
It's a little bit ironic that I only felt that I had time and energy to finish this book after being released as Relief Society president. I don't know if that was the book's fault. But either way I am grateful for the faithful way it looks at real issues within the church and it gets 5 stars just for existing.
September 5, 2014
I give the strongest recommendation possible to this book! It is one of the most important and helpful books I have read in many years. I read it in one sitting because I could not put it down. It is insightful, smart, engaging, faithful, and oh so relevant to what I view as the biggest issue to be facing our church community today. This book is all about Zion-building: being of one heart and one mind. I would encourage everyone to read it--across the spectrum of belief and activity. If you are less engaged with the church right now due to gender concerns, this book will help you feel understood and validated. You also will find (new!) constructive ideas and strategies that may inspire you to approach situations in a new light. I've read every blog out there about gender issues for the past 10+ years, so I wasn't expecting to find new material here, but I was wrong. On the other end of the spectrum, if you are 100% satisfied with how our church and culture currently operate, you will hear a faithful, well-respected woman offer fair, reasonable, and compassionate insights into why some women, and men, feel that all is not well in Zion. It is painful to hear about some of the negative experiences, but I think all church members would benefit from having greater compassion about these topics. If you've ever said to yourself "How can feminists say they don't fee equal in the church? I feel equal!" then this is the book for you (assuming you wish to better empathize with others who hold different perspectives from you). And, if you want to dip your toes into understanding these concerns, I can assure you that McBaine treats these ideas gently and carefully, always seeking to allow for a compassionate interpretation of the motives of all parties involved. McBaine seeks to uplift and unify, not tear down or divide, and there is nothing in the book that is meant to provoke, insult, or be inflammatory toward anyone on any side of the discussion. There is no implication that women who do not share these concerns are ignorant or blindly following their leaders, nor that feminists are unrighteous or don't understand the gospel. On the contrary, there is a strong emphasis on respecting and understanding one another. Another aspect that I found incredibly valuable was McBaine's "nuts and bolts" approach to improving communication and understanding on both sides. She promotes well-evidenced, effective communication methods and provides specific examples of ways we can work together to create a more Zion-like community. Some have criticized the book as relying too heavily upon the potentially arbitrary nature of local leadership to enact changes, and posit that what is really required is top-down, church-wide reforms in doctrine/policy. I understand that sentiment and to some degree long for more revolutionary changes. However, the paradigm that McBaine writes from does not demand new revelation or policies (not even changes to "the handbook"), but seeks to work within our systems and structures as presently defined. There is much room for personal revelation and innovation that I believe we as a church community are not fully considering, and McBaine points us toward a positive and exciting direction through her wise insights. I have already purchased multiple copies of this book and have shared it with family members, friends, and priesthood leaders. I truly look forward to the discussions resulting from engaging the topics addressed in the book, as well as better understanding others' unique points of view. Everyone's contributions are needed in order to build our community.
April 8, 2015
I read this book in an attempt to understand not only how some LDS women may be feeling in the general "out there," but also maybe right here in our stake.
I appreciated the author's tone throughout. She is not some semi-apostate feminist shaking her fist at Church leaders. She has faith in Jesus Christ and a testimony of His restored Church. This book is her attempt to bring understanding, to help build a bridge between women who have had negative experiences and who have hurt feelings, with Church leaders and the rest of us members who do not feel that way. (For example, she would often explain a Church policy that causes concern for some women and add a statement like, "I'm not saying that it is wrong, but I'm saying it can be hard.")
As Mormons, we are second to none in how highly we value women and their/our role in our Heavenly Father's plan. We believe that we have not only a Heavenly Father, but also a Heavenly Mother (though we don't talk about Her much). We honor and revere Eve for her courage and wisdom in being the first to eat the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. Women in our church serve as presidents of organizations at the ward, stake, and general levels (and in the case of ward Primary presidents, oversee literally dozens of people - including men.) Utah was second only to Wyoming in granting the right to vote to women (in 1870). And so on. Unfortunately, the importance that our religion places on womanhood tends not to be reflected in the amount of visibility and influence that women have in the Church. What are some possible ways to remedy this? This is what the author is addressing in this book.
It offers suggestions for local leaders to consider, where the Handbook may leave room for flexibility. While I do not agree with many of the suggestions and feel that she and others who she cites are at times too reactionary (for example assigning insensitivity to women and girls as the reason for something, instead of taking two steps back and considering that it might be because of another reason altogether), this is a worthwhile book that does offer some very good suggestions and brings a rich perspective on how to be sensitive to these concerns.
I'm glad I read this book. I'd recommend it to:
- women who feel hurt by past experiences with priesthood leadership,
- women who feel like the Church is not paying attention to their needs,
- women who don't "get" the above women's concerns and think they must just not understand or have a testimony of gospel principles (this is the category I'd mostly fall into before reading this book)
- Church leaders (men and women) who want to understand and minister to any women struggling with these issues.
I appreciated the author's tone throughout. She is not some semi-apostate feminist shaking her fist at Church leaders. She has faith in Jesus Christ and a testimony of His restored Church. This book is her attempt to bring understanding, to help build a bridge between women who have had negative experiences and who have hurt feelings, with Church leaders and the rest of us members who do not feel that way. (For example, she would often explain a Church policy that causes concern for some women and add a statement like, "I'm not saying that it is wrong, but I'm saying it can be hard.")
As Mormons, we are second to none in how highly we value women and their/our role in our Heavenly Father's plan. We believe that we have not only a Heavenly Father, but also a Heavenly Mother (though we don't talk about Her much). We honor and revere Eve for her courage and wisdom in being the first to eat the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. Women in our church serve as presidents of organizations at the ward, stake, and general levels (and in the case of ward Primary presidents, oversee literally dozens of people - including men.) Utah was second only to Wyoming in granting the right to vote to women (in 1870). And so on. Unfortunately, the importance that our religion places on womanhood tends not to be reflected in the amount of visibility and influence that women have in the Church. What are some possible ways to remedy this? This is what the author is addressing in this book.
It offers suggestions for local leaders to consider, where the Handbook may leave room for flexibility. While I do not agree with many of the suggestions and feel that she and others who she cites are at times too reactionary (for example assigning insensitivity to women and girls as the reason for something, instead of taking two steps back and considering that it might be because of another reason altogether), this is a worthwhile book that does offer some very good suggestions and brings a rich perspective on how to be sensitive to these concerns.
I'm glad I read this book. I'd recommend it to:
- women who feel hurt by past experiences with priesthood leadership,
- women who feel like the Church is not paying attention to their needs,
- women who don't "get" the above women's concerns and think they must just not understand or have a testimony of gospel principles (this is the category I'd mostly fall into before reading this book)
- Church leaders (men and women) who want to understand and minister to any women struggling with these issues.
May 9, 2018
Reasonable, thoughtful, logical. McBaine does a fantastic job at making a point (elevating/empowering women voices in the LDS Church--and really, applicable to other religions) while being inclusive and mindful of all perspectives. Moreover, she proposes innovative solutions that have no need for change(s) in doctrine or policy.
I'd highly recommend this to anyone, especially that is LDS (regardless of their "testimony status", gender, leadership status, calling, etc.). We grow in empathy and understanding when we read the stories of others. Similar to government/politics, I think the most powerful changes come from (1) the grassroots (i.e. local Relief Societies, wards, etc.), and (2) when people show up. It can be discouraging when we see the most extreme, outdated, etc. opinions, mindsets, and practices persist. But McBaine makes a great point that we encourage positive innovation and thereby shift culture by creating culture.
Favorite quotes:
"Can we doubt our God’s commitment to diversity when every person on earth has possessed unique genetic composition?”
(From a story regarding a baby blessing) "I am happy with our decision. I won’t lie—it was a difficult thing to do, and I had to gather up all my courage to do it. But for more inclusive practices to take hold, someone has to be be willing to pursue it and carry it out, even in the face of disapproval. In the end, it meant a lot to me to know that even though this was a difficult process, there was space for me within my ward and church to follow my conscience and proceed forward with this blessing in a way that was personally important to me. It also felt good to be honest with my was family about who I am. I hope it was good for them in turn to realize that people within their own congregation may have desires and perspectives that are different from theirs, and that that’s just fine. There is and should be room for that without our church. / New cultural practices don’t just spring out of the ground. The way we shift culture is TO CREATE CULTURE, to offer another version of a practice, another way to show obedience to the word of God. And any other version starts with a vision of how things should be. We encourage positive innovation by deliberately approaching practices and habits with an eye to restoring faith where it might otherwise be weak.”
I'd highly recommend this to anyone, especially that is LDS (regardless of their "testimony status", gender, leadership status, calling, etc.). We grow in empathy and understanding when we read the stories of others. Similar to government/politics, I think the most powerful changes come from (1) the grassroots (i.e. local Relief Societies, wards, etc.), and (2) when people show up. It can be discouraging when we see the most extreme, outdated, etc. opinions, mindsets, and practices persist. But McBaine makes a great point that we encourage positive innovation and thereby shift culture by creating culture.
Favorite quotes:
"Can we doubt our God’s commitment to diversity when every person on earth has possessed unique genetic composition?”
(From a story regarding a baby blessing) "I am happy with our decision. I won’t lie—it was a difficult thing to do, and I had to gather up all my courage to do it. But for more inclusive practices to take hold, someone has to be be willing to pursue it and carry it out, even in the face of disapproval. In the end, it meant a lot to me to know that even though this was a difficult process, there was space for me within my ward and church to follow my conscience and proceed forward with this blessing in a way that was personally important to me. It also felt good to be honest with my was family about who I am. I hope it was good for them in turn to realize that people within their own congregation may have desires and perspectives that are different from theirs, and that that’s just fine. There is and should be room for that without our church. / New cultural practices don’t just spring out of the ground. The way we shift culture is TO CREATE CULTURE, to offer another version of a practice, another way to show obedience to the word of God. And any other version starts with a vision of how things should be. We encourage positive innovation by deliberately approaching practices and habits with an eye to restoring faith where it might otherwise be weak.”
March 4, 2015
McBaine shares some excellent ideas on how to make everyone feel included in the church, how to approach authority figures regarding changes in practice, and includes a great historical background on gender issues in the LDS faith.
Specifically I liked:
-bishop making a bigger deal of Personal Progress Achievements
-stake president assigning talks about the Relief Society to high councillors or to coincide with the Relief Society birthday
-conferences on gender equality
-having the same budget for YM/YW activities and allowing both groups to do fun stuff (ie girls only baking cookies for nursing homes and boys going hiking)
-having women select sacrament meeting talks, be in charge of assignments for sacrament meetings
-teaching the YM & YW how to bake bread and bring it to sacrament meeting
-when speaking to a group of women, priesthood leaders don't need to speak about women's issues to women, they just need to speak about issues. Speak doctrine and speak the truth, that isn't gender specific.
-We need to help women (including young women) see each other as spiritual leaders
-women should build each other up and not feel threatened when a women takes on a non-traditional role in life or in the Church
I found much of the book insightful and appreciated reading positive and negative experiences women have had in the Church (whether it be through authority figures, activities, or general doctrine). I felt a lot of the information was quite basic for me (how to find common ground, don't be discouraged by slow progress etc.), but I appreciate that we all start at different places and McBaine felt the need to address the issue starting at zero.
I think everyone in and out of the LDS faith has something to gain from reading this, if anything, to learn what practices are helping women feel included throughout the Church.
Specifically I liked:
-bishop making a bigger deal of Personal Progress Achievements
-stake president assigning talks about the Relief Society to high councillors or to coincide with the Relief Society birthday
-conferences on gender equality
-having the same budget for YM/YW activities and allowing both groups to do fun stuff (ie girls only baking cookies for nursing homes and boys going hiking)
-having women select sacrament meeting talks, be in charge of assignments for sacrament meetings
-teaching the YM & YW how to bake bread and bring it to sacrament meeting
-when speaking to a group of women, priesthood leaders don't need to speak about women's issues to women, they just need to speak about issues. Speak doctrine and speak the truth, that isn't gender specific.
-We need to help women (including young women) see each other as spiritual leaders
-women should build each other up and not feel threatened when a women takes on a non-traditional role in life or in the Church
I found much of the book insightful and appreciated reading positive and negative experiences women have had in the Church (whether it be through authority figures, activities, or general doctrine). I felt a lot of the information was quite basic for me (how to find common ground, don't be discouraged by slow progress etc.), but I appreciate that we all start at different places and McBaine felt the need to address the issue starting at zero.
I think everyone in and out of the LDS faith has something to gain from reading this, if anything, to learn what practices are helping women feel included throughout the Church.
December 22, 2015
Neylan McBaine took on the difficult task of addressing gender relations within the Mormon church with grace and wisdom. She wrote in a way that I think appeals to and shows sympathy for people all over the spectrum of this issue. I really love that she took the approach of "What could we do now, with our doctrine as it is this minute, to magnify women's impact in the church?" The answers she and her interviewees provide to that question are fascinating and inspiring and beautiful. I'd love for everyone to read this book, but not because I hope it would convert them to agree with one opinion on this topic. McBaine doesn't endorse one way of doing things as the gospel truth. Instead she makes you realize that there is actually a lot of room in our doctrine to do the things that are needed to help all women feel respected and valued when they come to church on Sunday. Using our imagination and inspiration and patience and forgiveness for each other, we can make important changes right now.
Here's a sampling of ideas brought up in the book:
--Having Young Women visit teach with Relief Society sisters.
--Bishops asking Relief Society presidents to teach priesthood quorum lessons on occasion.
--Assigning Young Women as door-greeters and sacrament bread makers/bringers.
--Inviting Young Men to Young Women Evening of Excellence to help celebrate their achievements.
--Giving a single sister in the ward the calling of sacrament meeting coordinator.
--Asking bishopric members and their wives/families to stand for a vote of thanks when the bishopric is released.
--Bishops asking mothers of babies being blessed to bear their testimonies that day.
Thank you, Neylan McBaine! We need this book.
Here's a sampling of ideas brought up in the book:
--Having Young Women visit teach with Relief Society sisters.
--Bishops asking Relief Society presidents to teach priesthood quorum lessons on occasion.
--Assigning Young Women as door-greeters and sacrament bread makers/bringers.
--Inviting Young Men to Young Women Evening of Excellence to help celebrate their achievements.
--Giving a single sister in the ward the calling of sacrament meeting coordinator.
--Asking bishopric members and their wives/families to stand for a vote of thanks when the bishopric is released.
--Bishops asking mothers of babies being blessed to bear their testimonies that day.
Thank you, Neylan McBaine! We need this book.
September 4, 2014
I want to send this book to everyone. Everyone!
McBaine works so hard in the first section to outline key problems based on her podcast interviews and continued research. She highlights some important points but you could almost drown in the tension of finding the least offensive wording. For me, that was mightily frustrating to read her constant equivocations ("That doesn't mean it's wrong...") but I don't need to be sold that there are problems. For someone who doesn't see the problems, this is a convincing section with a gentle touch. McBaine wasn't afraid to spell it out objectively, but she always softens the landing.
When McBaine reaches her suggestions section, it was just magic. The suggested changes are measured, well within an expansive reading of the handbook (though probably not a conservative reading), and they invite visible actions. McBaine challenges local leaders to put their money where their mouth is - to not just speak equality but show it. Of course, for some symbolic changes (and they are mostly symbolic) aren't that satisfying since they still affirm an essentially inequitable balance but as a baby step, I think most could get used to them. It's certainly a good starting place.
So like I said, I wish everyone, especially my Bishop, would read this book and become inspired about the as yet untapped potential of women as leaders. Or at least I would hope readers could come to an understanding that Feminist is not a dirty word, there are real problems faced by real people that are solvable without ordination, and therefore local leaders can do something about it. And when they do, we all might be one step closer to Zion.
McBaine works so hard in the first section to outline key problems based on her podcast interviews and continued research. She highlights some important points but you could almost drown in the tension of finding the least offensive wording. For me, that was mightily frustrating to read her constant equivocations ("That doesn't mean it's wrong...") but I don't need to be sold that there are problems. For someone who doesn't see the problems, this is a convincing section with a gentle touch. McBaine wasn't afraid to spell it out objectively, but she always softens the landing.
When McBaine reaches her suggestions section, it was just magic. The suggested changes are measured, well within an expansive reading of the handbook (though probably not a conservative reading), and they invite visible actions. McBaine challenges local leaders to put their money where their mouth is - to not just speak equality but show it. Of course, for some symbolic changes (and they are mostly symbolic) aren't that satisfying since they still affirm an essentially inequitable balance but as a baby step, I think most could get used to them. It's certainly a good starting place.
So like I said, I wish everyone, especially my Bishop, would read this book and become inspired about the as yet untapped potential of women as leaders. Or at least I would hope readers could come to an understanding that Feminist is not a dirty word, there are real problems faced by real people that are solvable without ordination, and therefore local leaders can do something about it. And when they do, we all might be one step closer to Zion.
June 16, 2015
I took on this book in part because it was our Relief Society's book group pick, and in part because I am trying to develop greater compassion and understanding for the small sector of women in the church who are deeply troubled about their role in the church.
Neylan McBaine does a fine job of handling a topic that is usually treated with a lot of emotion and anger in a very even-handed, unemotional, non-aggressive way. She is successful at being fair on all sides, at thinking of innovative solutions to some of the problems she sees.
The only part that was really uncomfortable to read were the quotes near the beginning that came from the Mormon Women Project involving complaints on various church procedures. I know that these selections were chosen to evoke sympathy, but they didn't. They actually made me want to stop reading the book. Once you get past those, though, it's easier and gets one thinking about different problems, different solutions, and different points of view.
We discussed this book at our book group and had a good discussion, framing the "problem" as a cultural problem in society at large, not so much a cultural problem in the church, but because many of our associations are with church members, we think it's only or mostly a church problem.
I do feel like discussion on the topic of women at church is beneficial. It helps women who struggle feel heard. It helps those who don't struggle to understand where they're coming from, and it opens all of our eyes to the differences between doctrine and cultural tradition with an awareness about how some things could be different.
Written for an LDS audience.
Neylan McBaine does a fine job of handling a topic that is usually treated with a lot of emotion and anger in a very even-handed, unemotional, non-aggressive way. She is successful at being fair on all sides, at thinking of innovative solutions to some of the problems she sees.
The only part that was really uncomfortable to read were the quotes near the beginning that came from the Mormon Women Project involving complaints on various church procedures. I know that these selections were chosen to evoke sympathy, but they didn't. They actually made me want to stop reading the book. Once you get past those, though, it's easier and gets one thinking about different problems, different solutions, and different points of view.
We discussed this book at our book group and had a good discussion, framing the "problem" as a cultural problem in society at large, not so much a cultural problem in the church, but because many of our associations are with church members, we think it's only or mostly a church problem.
I do feel like discussion on the topic of women at church is beneficial. It helps women who struggle feel heard. It helps those who don't struggle to understand where they're coming from, and it opens all of our eyes to the differences between doctrine and cultural tradition with an awareness about how some things could be different.
Written for an LDS audience.
March 12, 2015
I was not the target audience for this book, but I am deeply grateful it has been written. Because of more radical groups like Ordain Women, Neylan McBaine's book is the perfect moderate manifesto for those of us wishing our church would shed some of its cultural barnacles related to gender roles. McBaine carefully, gently, reassuringly lays the groundwork to think a little differently about how local leaders can make important adjustments to how we think about and talk about women. I expected a shopping list of recommended changes around gendered issues that would not challenge doctrine, but instead was surprised by a slightly broader, deeper message: we need to feel empowered to meet the individual needs of the members of our church wherever they are. Rather than championing the cause of a single group (women), we should be seeking out the needs of individual men and women and then relinquishing unhelpful traditions or adapting policies to meet those needs. It was a message of lcoal flexibility over centralized rigidity. I have slightly mixed feelings about this. On one hand, change will always be local. I think of the experience of the RLDS church when they began ordaining women in the 1980s and local Bishops declared "no woman will be ordained in MY ward." On the other hand, sometimes locals need a bit of a push--bringing the National Guard in to the south to desegregate schools, for example. It's a balancing act, and Women at Church is an absolute essential voice in the discussion.
September 21, 2015
Sometimes if you bring up gender issues in the LDS church people can get defensive. This book is a bridge between them and people who feel the pain of gender disparity within the church. I felt like if I needed to explain why Mormon feminism is important to another member of the church, I could hand them this book. Mormons in leadership positions would benefit from reading this book, as it would help them feel more compassion and sensitivity to issues that some people (including me) feel passionate about. Things like making the cub scout and achievement day activities more similar (or just having equal budgets), giving women the opportunity to occasionally mentor/teach young men (often young men have no religious, women leaders other than their mother, whereas young women have their own women leaders and the bishopric), and helping women feel heard when they are in leadership positions.
Many of the ideas feel sort of weaksauce from a feminist perspective... like having the young women bake bread for the sacrament. It's completely within gender-prescribed behavior and the women are still in the background for their service. But at the same time it's a touching compromise and an idea I'd love to see in action. Reading this book helped me feel hope for women's representation in the forefront of the church (not just in the background on a pedestal). It also validated my dissatisfaction with various gender issues in the church in a good way that makes me want to enact change in my own ward and neighborhood.
Many of the ideas feel sort of weaksauce from a feminist perspective... like having the young women bake bread for the sacrament. It's completely within gender-prescribed behavior and the women are still in the background for their service. But at the same time it's a touching compromise and an idea I'd love to see in action. Reading this book helped me feel hope for women's representation in the forefront of the church (not just in the background on a pedestal). It also validated my dissatisfaction with various gender issues in the church in a good way that makes me want to enact change in my own ward and neighborhood.
April 21, 2017
I'm conflicted about this book (I mostly love it and am really really glad that it exists and hopeful for the practical, on the ground good it can do, but I have some minor-ish reservations). It has a sort of corporate, self-help, pop psychology feel that I (probably unsurprisingly) don't love. It also feels occasionally a little dismissive of some of the critiques from the more radical left of certain practices, ideas, developments relating to gender issues in the Church. However, given the intent of the book, this makes sense and is understandable AND in fairness, it is remarkably sensitive to the needs of women in the Church and the problems/issues/situations/doctrines/etc. that may negatively color their Church experience.
I was deeply moved by the personal examples of women advocating for change, men seeking women's input, and the other anecdotes working with alternative practices to magnify the role and presence of women at Church. There's a deep goodness to these stories and they provide a sense of hope and a practical guide to changes that each of us can work to bring to pass wherever we live, which is powerful. Overall, an excellent book, well worth picking up if you're interested in practical ways to increase the role of women within Mormonism.
I was deeply moved by the personal examples of women advocating for change, men seeking women's input, and the other anecdotes working with alternative practices to magnify the role and presence of women at Church. There's a deep goodness to these stories and they provide a sense of hope and a practical guide to changes that each of us can work to bring to pass wherever we live, which is powerful. Overall, an excellent book, well worth picking up if you're interested in practical ways to increase the role of women within Mormonism.
Displaying 1 - 30 of 225 reviews