What do you think?
Rate this book
The Gap Cycle #2
The Gap Into Vision: Forbidden Knowledge
Author of "The Chronicles Of Thomas Covenant," one of the most acclaimed fantasy series of all time, master storyteller Stephen R. Donaldson retums with the second book in his long-awaited new science fiction series--a story about dark passions, perilous alliances, and dubious heroism set in a stunningly imagined future.
Beautiful, brilliant, and dangerous, Morn Hyland is an ex-police officer for the United Mining Companies--and the target of two ruthless, powerful men. One is the charismatic ore-pirate Nick Succorso, who sees Morn as booty wrested from his vicious rival, Angus Thermopyle. thermopyle once made the mistake of underestimating Morn and now he's about to pay the ultimate price. Both men think they can possess her, but Morn is no one's trophy--and no one's pawn.
Meanwhile, withing the borders of Forbidden Space, wait the Amnioin, an alien race capable of horrific atrocities. The Amnion want something unspeakable from humanity--and they will go to unthinkable lengths to get it.
In "Forbidden Knowledge," Stephen R. Donaldson spins a galaxy-wide web of intrigue, deception, and betrayal that tightens with inexorable strength around characters and readers alike.
"From the Paperback edition."
Beautiful, brilliant, and dangerous, Morn Hyland is an ex-police officer for the United Mining Companies--and the target of two ruthless, powerful men. One is the charismatic ore-pirate Nick Succorso, who sees Morn as booty wrested from his vicious rival, Angus Thermopyle. thermopyle once made the mistake of underestimating Morn and now he's about to pay the ultimate price. Both men think they can possess her, but Morn is no one's trophy--and no one's pawn.
Meanwhile, withing the borders of Forbidden Space, wait the Amnioin, an alien race capable of horrific atrocities. The Amnion want something unspeakable from humanity--and they will go to unthinkable lengths to get it.
In "Forbidden Knowledge," Stephen R. Donaldson spins a galaxy-wide web of intrigue, deception, and betrayal that tightens with inexorable strength around characters and readers alike.
"From the Paperback edition."
407 pages, Hardcover
First published June 1, 1991
168 people are currently reading
2162 people want to read
About the author
Stephen R. Donaldson
149 books2,726 followersStephen Reeder Donaldson is an American fantasy, science fiction, and mystery novelist; in the United Kingdom he is usually called "Stephen Donaldson" (without the "R"). He has also written non-fiction under the pen name Reed Stephens.
EARLY LIFE AND EDUCATION:
Stephen R. Donaldson was born May 13, 1947 in Cleveland, Ohio. His father, James, was a medical missionary and his mother, Ruth, a prosthetist (a person skilled in making or fitting prosthetic devices). Donaldson spent the years between the ages of 3 and 16 living in India, where his father was working as an orthopaedic surgeon. Donaldson earned his bachelor's degree from The College of Wooster and master's degree from Kent State University.
INSPIRATIONS:
Donaldson's work is heavily influenced by other fantasy authors such as J.R.R. Tolkien, Roger Zelazny, Joseph Conrad, Henry James, and William Faulkner. The writers he most admires are Patricia A. McKillip, Steven Erikson, and Tim Powers.
It is believed that a speech his father made on leprosy (whilst working with lepers in India) led to Donaldson's creation of Thomas Covenant, the anti-hero of his most famous work (Thomas Covenant). The first book in that series, Lord Foul's Bane, received 47 rejections before a publisher agreed to publish it.
PROMINENT WORK:
Stephen Donaldson came to prominence in 1977 with the The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, which is centred around a leper shunned by society and his trials and tribulations as his destiny unfolds. These books established Donaldson as one of the most important figures in modern fantasy fiction.
PERSONAL LIFE:
He currently resides in New Mexico.
THE GRADUAL INTERVIEW
EARLY LIFE AND EDUCATION:
Stephen R. Donaldson was born May 13, 1947 in Cleveland, Ohio. His father, James, was a medical missionary and his mother, Ruth, a prosthetist (a person skilled in making or fitting prosthetic devices). Donaldson spent the years between the ages of 3 and 16 living in India, where his father was working as an orthopaedic surgeon. Donaldson earned his bachelor's degree from The College of Wooster and master's degree from Kent State University.
INSPIRATIONS:
Donaldson's work is heavily influenced by other fantasy authors such as J.R.R. Tolkien, Roger Zelazny, Joseph Conrad, Henry James, and William Faulkner. The writers he most admires are Patricia A. McKillip, Steven Erikson, and Tim Powers.
It is believed that a speech his father made on leprosy (whilst working with lepers in India) led to Donaldson's creation of Thomas Covenant, the anti-hero of his most famous work (Thomas Covenant). The first book in that series, Lord Foul's Bane, received 47 rejections before a publisher agreed to publish it.
PROMINENT WORK:
Stephen Donaldson came to prominence in 1977 with the The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, which is centred around a leper shunned by society and his trials and tribulations as his destiny unfolds. These books established Donaldson as one of the most important figures in modern fantasy fiction.
PERSONAL LIFE:
He currently resides in New Mexico.
THE GRADUAL INTERVIEW
Ratings & Reviews
Friends & Following
Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!
Community Reviews
Displaying 1 - 30 of 216 reviews
February 5, 2022
Donaldson seems to be obsessed with abusement, mostly sexual, but he is a master storyteller. The Gap is my favorite science fiction/space opera series and rereading it is very rewarding. These books are at the same time page turners but also challenging and thought provoking. He has created a claustrophobic, rust and sweat smelling bleak future, full of corruption and interesting controversial, and often despicable characters. The Amnion aliens fit perfectly in that near future with their calculating, cold, awkward and threatening maneuvers. It is the kind of book that I could not turn down. Twists, disasters, solutions, basic instincts for power and survival, horrors and lots of adrenalin make the story a thrilling unforgettable ride. Highly recommended to everyone who wants to read a really dark, bleak psychological, space thriller.
March 19, 2018
Although this is the first series by Donaldson that I can stand to read, I still can’t say that I love it. I’m not sure that I even like it. There really isn’t one character that I can actually identify with—there are one or two that I’m interested in and want to know what happens to them, but I can’t say that I like them. Mind you, that’s not necessary for a novel but it does make it easier reading.
The aliens in this universe seem to take a cue from Octavia Butler’s Oankali in her Xenogenesis series. Donaldson’s Amnioin also seem to be rather echinoderm-like and are interested in acquiring humans for genetic purposes. Selling someone to the Amnioin is seen as the ultimate evil in human trafficking. But when there’s money to be made, you know that some human is going to try to make deals with them—and it’s rather like trying to make deals with the Fae. You need to watch your wording and make sure you know all of the ramifications before you sign on the dotted line.
If you’ve got any issues with rape scenes, you won’t have made it past the first book. That said, don’t expect that to stop in this book. Morn actually has to go to sick-bay at one point, to get repaired after particularly rough treatment by Nick Succorso. Donaldson doesn’t go into graphic detail, thankfully, but there are more than enough hints to be horrifying.
The cynicism evident in the book is a bit depressing too—everyone seems to be on the take somehow, even the police force that Morn used to belong to. She followed her parents into that occupation and had taken pride in their upstanding reputation—this is yet another thing that gets taken away from her, along with her personal agency.
Book 275 in my Science Fiction and Fantasy reading project.
The aliens in this universe seem to take a cue from Octavia Butler’s Oankali in her Xenogenesis series. Donaldson’s Amnioin also seem to be rather echinoderm-like and are interested in acquiring humans for genetic purposes. Selling someone to the Amnioin is seen as the ultimate evil in human trafficking. But when there’s money to be made, you know that some human is going to try to make deals with them—and it’s rather like trying to make deals with the Fae. You need to watch your wording and make sure you know all of the ramifications before you sign on the dotted line.
If you’ve got any issues with rape scenes, you won’t have made it past the first book. That said, don’t expect that to stop in this book. Morn actually has to go to sick-bay at one point, to get repaired after particularly rough treatment by Nick Succorso. Donaldson doesn’t go into graphic detail, thankfully, but there are more than enough hints to be horrifying.
The cynicism evident in the book is a bit depressing too—everyone seems to be on the take somehow, even the police force that Morn used to belong to. She followed her parents into that occupation and had taken pride in their upstanding reputation—this is yet another thing that gets taken away from her, along with her personal agency.
Book 275 in my Science Fiction and Fantasy reading project.
March 30, 2013
The main problem with this story was that the author seems to be under the impression that "rape victim" is a personality type. In the first book, the protagonist seemed to be intelligent and resourceful, despite terrible things happening to her. But her character never progressed or deepened, instead she (and other characters) were reduced to a few obvious traits or obsessions. Now, it might be believable that someone having undergone severe trauma would behave erratically, showing times of incapability mixed with moments of competence - but the protagonist always happens to be brilliant at exactly the time she needs to save herself or push the plot forward, and a powerful object in the story almost always works in the right way for her just when she needs it. She'll go from screaming on the floor to quickly doing something complex that we don't really understand (like how it seems she can recode the computers in a matter of minutes) in a sequence that becomes unbelievable after it happens more than once. But anything else about her besides her victim-ness is really uninteresting and underdeveloped.
I've seen a few comments to negative reviews saying - but but but the characters go through redemption! Believe me, the last thing I want to read about is these people getting rehabilitated. I give exactly zero fucks about redemption.
I've seen a few comments to negative reviews saying - but but but the characters go through redemption! Believe me, the last thing I want to read about is these people getting rehabilitated. I give exactly zero fucks about redemption.
September 22, 2010
4.5 to 5.0 stars. Fantastic sequel to The Gap into Conflict: The Real Story by Stephen R. Donaldson. Continuing right where The Gap into Conflict: The Real Story left off, this installment expands on the intertwined stories of Morn Hyland, Nick Succorso and Angus Thermopyle.
This is not your typical space opera with larger than life heroes and clear cut good guys and bad guys. In fact, there are no "good guys" in this book, only lesser evils. This book is dark, violent, depressing...and brilliantly done. There is not a whole lot of action here and much of the book involves the interior monologue and analysis of the three main characters and how they are feeling about the events going on around them (many of which are horrific). If that does not sound like something that would interest you, then you may want to avoid this. However, if you want something different, well written, complex and very, very dark, this is certainly worth a read.
This is not your typical space opera with larger than life heroes and clear cut good guys and bad guys. In fact, there are no "good guys" in this book, only lesser evils. This book is dark, violent, depressing...and brilliantly done. There is not a whole lot of action here and much of the book involves the interior monologue and analysis of the three main characters and how they are feeling about the events going on around them (many of which are horrific). If that does not sound like something that would interest you, then you may want to avoid this. However, if you want something different, well written, complex and very, very dark, this is certainly worth a read.
August 23, 2016
Ug... Stephen Donaldson is a dark bitter soul methinks. Gods, what a dark, ugly story. I don't' know why I started it, the first book left me so cold and empty. The sequel even more so. It is well written, and characters are interesting, but all just so f****d up, so violent, full of rape and psychological torture. I know I'll not continue the series. However I'm drawn to go on, the ending is so... flat and empty, it pulls you in like a black hole.
Ug, wanna go wash my hands now...
Ug, wanna go wash my hands now...
December 20, 2015
The second book in the Gap series continues to wreak psychological havoc on its reader, I really felt depressed while reading this book, because this world does not have any normal human beings with a moral compass, but we have a large cast of characters who will use anything and everything to achieve their purpose. Although Angus Thermoplyae continues to take the crown for me, regarding most disgusting character in grim-dark so far, but Nick Suarcoso does not lag behind by much. I thought in the last book that Nick has rescued Morn from the clutches of Angus, but this book threw assumption in the dustbin and kicked it savagely.
I really give credit to Donaldson for writing such a psychological tale, because no book I have read so far played with my mind as this book did, you just can't imagine the horrible things his characters have to face in this book, I think even GRRM hasn't put his characters through such a test as Donaldson has. This book has very few elements with which it can be classified as a sci-fi genre book, because otherwise it is a pure grim-dark book.
Some of the strong points of the book are
1.Small cast of dark characters.
2.We finally meet some aliens.
Only weak point which I found with book is
1.Morn keeps on deceiving Nick too easily.
Now let me elaborate on the above points
1.Small cast of dark characters.
The last book focused only on two pov characters, but this book improves on that and is told from pov three main characters namely of
1.Morn
She thought that her ordeal ended when she got rescued by Nick, but this trip with Nick is going to leave her emotionally and physically so broken that if Angus had not given her an zone implant in the last book she may not have survived till the end. Although Angus continues to haunt her emotionally throughout the book due to the amount of assault she received at his hand, but surviving on Nick's ship is going to be an ordeal because most of the people operating on that ship have a history of violence and assault.
Her belief regarding the force of UMCPbeing good gets tossed out of the window when she learns some incriminating things about them, its like you when you believe throughout your life on something and then when you come to know it was not what you believed to be, the hollowness and waste you feel after that, she keeps on going through those emotions throughout the book. she faces a lot of stuff throughout the book and how she manages to cope with it is really scary and at the same time exciting to read.
2.Nick Suarcoso
He is the captain of the ship Captain's Fancy and so far he lived his life with one rule that of not sleeping with the women he trusts, when he rescues Morn from Angus he only wants to sleep with her, but there are some forces working behind the scenes which we come to know as we read the book who gave this mission to him.
He finds it hard to trust her and takes out his frustration on her by assaulting her again and again, when she finally manages to deceive him, he starts trusting her and gives her some important work on the ship to handle.
He is a scary individual due to the fact that he likes to keep his crew on the edge by putting them in danger time and again, so that when recuse them from that situations they would become dependent on him and completely submit to his decision without questioning him.
3.Angus Thermoplyae
After been deceived by Nick he lands in prison, but the he soon starts harassing his interrogating officer Milos Taverner who just can't get the confession from him regarding his crimes. Soon he gets rescued by UMCP who transform him physically by completely breaking his decision making process and put him to use for their purposes.
Although there more side characters in this book than the previous one but for me these three were the most characters in the book.
2.We finally meet some aliens.
As it is a sci-fi book it has its own aliens involved in it called as the Amnions these guys are completely different from human beings and have the ability to wreak havoc genetically with human beings, due to which the pirates like Nickwho deal with them for supplies have to negotiate very carefully. The Amnions are shown to be very interested in live human beings and are ready to to pay whatever it costs to get their hands on live humans.
Also Donaldson keeps us giving us bits and pieces regarding the aliens in form of info dumps time and again, but instead of being boring it starts becoming an integral part of the story and you start putting the pieces together and see the complete story due to it.
Now let me elaborate on the only weak point which I found in the book
1.Morn keeps on deceiving Nick too easily.
We are shown from the start that Nick is a very dicey and untrustworthy individual people like that don't trust anyone easily, due to this fact it becomes a bit hard to believe when Morn continues to deceive him very easily. time and again.
All in all I really liked this book and this should not be missed by people who are fans of grim-dark fantasy, but be warned it will play havoc with your emotions and make you feel low when you are reading it. I give this book 4/5 stars.
I really give credit to Donaldson for writing such a psychological tale, because no book I have read so far played with my mind as this book did, you just can't imagine the horrible things his characters have to face in this book, I think even GRRM hasn't put his characters through such a test as Donaldson has. This book has very few elements with which it can be classified as a sci-fi genre book, because otherwise it is a pure grim-dark book.
Some of the strong points of the book are
1.Small cast of dark characters.
2.We finally meet some aliens.
Only weak point which I found with book is
1.Morn keeps on deceiving Nick too easily.
Now let me elaborate on the above points
1.Small cast of dark characters.
The last book focused only on two pov characters, but this book improves on that and is told from pov three main characters namely of
1.Morn
She thought that her ordeal ended when she got rescued by Nick, but this trip with Nick is going to leave her emotionally and physically so broken that if Angus had not given her an zone implant in the last book she may not have survived till the end. Although Angus continues to haunt her emotionally throughout the book due to the amount of assault she received at his hand, but surviving on Nick's ship is going to be an ordeal because most of the people operating on that ship have a history of violence and assault.
Her belief regarding the force of UMCPbeing good gets tossed out of the window when she learns some incriminating things about them, its like you when you believe throughout your life on something and then when you come to know it was not what you believed to be, the hollowness and waste you feel after that, she keeps on going through those emotions throughout the book. she faces a lot of stuff throughout the book and how she manages to cope with it is really scary and at the same time exciting to read.
2.Nick Suarcoso
He is the captain of the ship Captain's Fancy and so far he lived his life with one rule that of not sleeping with the women he trusts, when he rescues Morn from Angus he only wants to sleep with her, but there are some forces working behind the scenes which we come to know as we read the book who gave this mission to him.
He finds it hard to trust her and takes out his frustration on her by assaulting her again and again, when she finally manages to deceive him, he starts trusting her and gives her some important work on the ship to handle.
He is a scary individual due to the fact that he likes to keep his crew on the edge by putting them in danger time and again, so that when recuse them from that situations they would become dependent on him and completely submit to his decision without questioning him.
3.Angus Thermoplyae
After been deceived by Nick he lands in prison, but the he soon starts harassing his interrogating officer Milos Taverner who just can't get the confession from him regarding his crimes. Soon he gets rescued by UMCP who transform him physically by completely breaking his decision making process and put him to use for their purposes.
Although there more side characters in this book than the previous one but for me these three were the most characters in the book.
2.We finally meet some aliens.
As it is a sci-fi book it has its own aliens involved in it called as the Amnions these guys are completely different from human beings and have the ability to wreak havoc genetically with human beings, due to which the pirates like Nickwho deal with them for supplies have to negotiate very carefully. The Amnions are shown to be very interested in live human beings and are ready to to pay whatever it costs to get their hands on live humans.
Also Donaldson keeps us giving us bits and pieces regarding the aliens in form of info dumps time and again, but instead of being boring it starts becoming an integral part of the story and you start putting the pieces together and see the complete story due to it.
Now let me elaborate on the only weak point which I found in the book
1.Morn keeps on deceiving Nick too easily.
We are shown from the start that Nick is a very dicey and untrustworthy individual people like that don't trust anyone easily, due to this fact it becomes a bit hard to believe when Morn continues to deceive him very easily. time and again.
All in all I really liked this book and this should not be missed by people who are fans of grim-dark fantasy, but be warned it will play havoc with your emotions and make you feel low when you are reading it. I give this book 4/5 stars.
September 10, 2022
So this is the most nihilistic and bleak series I've read so far, yep it's pretty rough to read at times. Donaldson roughly prioritizes
1. Torturing and abusing his characters
2. Interpersonal politics
3. Cool sci-fi stuff
in that order. The first half of the book is definitely some of the most hopeless and brutal stuff I've read, the second half prioritizes cool sci-fi stuff a lot more thankfully and has a lot of interesting setup for the rest of the series.
1. Torturing and abusing his characters
2. Interpersonal politics
3. Cool sci-fi stuff
in that order. The first half of the book is definitely some of the most hopeless and brutal stuff I've read, the second half prioritizes cool sci-fi stuff a lot more thankfully and has a lot of interesting setup for the rest of the series.
December 3, 2012
Hmmm. This is a wierd book to write about. I liked the first book more than this one, and I think that has to do mostly with it being shorter.
What I do like is the setting. I like the author's vision of the future. It's interesting and seems like it would be populated with all kinds of stories. I like the ships as well. I think he really nailed how a ship would feel in these books.
What I find mediocre is the plot and pacing. one big thing happens partially through the book and thats it. It seems like a lot of words to not really have anything happen, nor to really have any real ending to the book.
What I don't like is the characters. None of them. I don't even like Morn, the main character. I understand that she has been traumatized. I understand that she is messed up. I still don't like the way she is written or the decisions she makes. her motivations arent well written. The biggest decision she makes seems to get nothing but lip service, and her reaction just doesn't make sense to me.
With that said, she is "best" person in the whole book. Every other character in the book who has any personality at all is a terrible human being. I believe the author was trying to make it so that a lot of them were victims of circumstance, or just had it rough in life, etc etc. However, the portrayal of that is done very poorly. It really is depressing that every single person you know anything about is a terrible, damaged, human being.
The funny thing is that i normally LOVE books like that. Abercrombie has made a career out of people being damaged and violent, and I love his books. But its because they still possess some humanity, and really do feel like victims of the world they have to survive in. In this series, they really do all just feel like criminals, scum, and generally terrible human beings.
I'll finish the trilogy, mostly because my wife insists that I'll love the politics of the third book. But, without her guidance, I doubt I'd be bothered to read the third book. I just dont have enough interest.
What I do like is the setting. I like the author's vision of the future. It's interesting and seems like it would be populated with all kinds of stories. I like the ships as well. I think he really nailed how a ship would feel in these books.
What I find mediocre is the plot and pacing. one big thing happens partially through the book and thats it. It seems like a lot of words to not really have anything happen, nor to really have any real ending to the book.
What I don't like is the characters. None of them. I don't even like Morn, the main character. I understand that she has been traumatized. I understand that she is messed up. I still don't like the way she is written or the decisions she makes. her motivations arent well written. The biggest decision she makes seems to get nothing but lip service, and her reaction just doesn't make sense to me.
With that said, she is "best" person in the whole book. Every other character in the book who has any personality at all is a terrible human being. I believe the author was trying to make it so that a lot of them were victims of circumstance, or just had it rough in life, etc etc. However, the portrayal of that is done very poorly. It really is depressing that every single person you know anything about is a terrible, damaged, human being.
The funny thing is that i normally LOVE books like that. Abercrombie has made a career out of people being damaged and violent, and I love his books. But its because they still possess some humanity, and really do feel like victims of the world they have to survive in. In this series, they really do all just feel like criminals, scum, and generally terrible human beings.
I'll finish the trilogy, mostly because my wife insists that I'll love the politics of the third book. But, without her guidance, I doubt I'd be bothered to read the third book. I just dont have enough interest.
July 8, 2015
So, you made it past Rape: The Novel. You are now ready to embark on one of the great science fiction epics of all time.
Continuing Donaldson's science fiction adaptation of Wagner's Ring Cycle, we now begin to get to the meat of the matter. (No spoilers here.)
In "Forbidden Knowledge," we meet and get to know the infamous Captain Nick Succorso. And we will fight to survive this gut-wrenching tale, along with Nick, and Morn.
This book is flavored with an interesting characteristic that appears sporadically throughout the Donaldson experience. Every hundred pages or so, the reader is treated to three or four paragraphs of some of the most provocative modern philosophy I believe I've ever read. And I've read a bit.
Also introduced here are the stakes. Here we begin to be introduced to what may (or may not?) really be going on. The stakes could not be higher, and the reader takes shallow comfort in the knowledge that the fate of humanity may literally be in the hands of the most conniving, most untrustworthy human beings imaginable.
The good news: this book has what I consider the most mind-bending WTF moment I've ever seen in any novel. Bigger than the death of Eddard Stark, bigger than the Red Wedding, bigger even than the Mule Reveal in Asimov's Foundation Trilogy. This one is large, and speaking for myself, so unexpected that I actually had to put the book down and pace for a bit to collect my thoughts.
I was reading in a TV control room and the very people who had recommended the book to me asked what had happened, I was so shaken. I told them, and they cackled with glee. It's a big one. Capital WTF. And it's not the last.
Finally, for those not yet trolled, I will append my Dream Cast for the HBO series:
Captain Angus Thermopyle ... Ron Perlman
Morn Hyland ... Olivia Wilde
Davies Hyland ... Liam Hemsworth
Captain Nick Succorso ... Brad Pitt
Mikka Vasaczk ... Zoe Saldana
Vector Shaheed ... J.K. Simmons
Milos Taverner ... Steve Buscemi
The Bill ... Christoph Waltz
Warden Dios ... Tom Selleck
Min Donner ... Sigourney Weaver
Hashi Lebwohl ... Ben Kingsley
Holt Fasner ... Kevin Spacey
Captain Sorus Chatelaine ... Sharon Stone
Captain Dolph Ubikwe ... Idris Elba
Spectacular.
Continuing Donaldson's science fiction adaptation of Wagner's Ring Cycle, we now begin to get to the meat of the matter. (No spoilers here.)
In "Forbidden Knowledge," we meet and get to know the infamous Captain Nick Succorso. And we will fight to survive this gut-wrenching tale, along with Nick, and Morn.
This book is flavored with an interesting characteristic that appears sporadically throughout the Donaldson experience. Every hundred pages or so, the reader is treated to three or four paragraphs of some of the most provocative modern philosophy I believe I've ever read. And I've read a bit.
Also introduced here are the stakes. Here we begin to be introduced to what may (or may not?) really be going on. The stakes could not be higher, and the reader takes shallow comfort in the knowledge that the fate of humanity may literally be in the hands of the most conniving, most untrustworthy human beings imaginable.
The good news: this book has what I consider the most mind-bending WTF moment I've ever seen in any novel. Bigger than the death of Eddard Stark, bigger than the Red Wedding, bigger even than the Mule Reveal in Asimov's Foundation Trilogy. This one is large, and speaking for myself, so unexpected that I actually had to put the book down and pace for a bit to collect my thoughts.
I was reading in a TV control room and the very people who had recommended the book to me asked what had happened, I was so shaken. I told them, and they cackled with glee. It's a big one. Capital WTF. And it's not the last.
Finally, for those not yet trolled, I will append my Dream Cast for the HBO series:
Captain Angus Thermopyle ... Ron Perlman
Morn Hyland ... Olivia Wilde
Davies Hyland ... Liam Hemsworth
Captain Nick Succorso ... Brad Pitt
Mikka Vasaczk ... Zoe Saldana
Vector Shaheed ... J.K. Simmons
Milos Taverner ... Steve Buscemi
The Bill ... Christoph Waltz
Warden Dios ... Tom Selleck
Min Donner ... Sigourney Weaver
Hashi Lebwohl ... Ben Kingsley
Holt Fasner ... Kevin Spacey
Captain Sorus Chatelaine ... Sharon Stone
Captain Dolph Ubikwe ... Idris Elba
Spectacular.
July 27, 2021
Forbidden Knowledge continues the story of Morn and her travels after she leaves Com-Mine station with Nick. At one point, we find the book is holding out on us.
Most of the pages deal with Nick and Morn and the crew aboard the ship. Throughout, Morn is a target for abuse. Over and over. The reader feels as confined as the crew...but, there's more! And it's nearly out of sight. When you think you've had enough, and you've made up your mind - wait, and you'll see! A glimpse then, for relief. One chapter, out of the blue, jolts the reader with exciting possibilities to come. Look at the bulk of the next three volumes and get ready for the flood. Good news, the suffering is over and the adventure begins!
Most of the pages deal with Nick and Morn and the crew aboard the ship. Throughout, Morn is a target for abuse. Over and over. The reader feels as confined as the crew...but, there's more! And it's nearly out of sight. When you think you've had enough, and you've made up your mind - wait, and you'll see! A glimpse then, for relief. One chapter, out of the blue, jolts the reader with exciting possibilities to come. Look at the bulk of the next three volumes and get ready for the flood. Good news, the suffering is over and the adventure begins!
April 11, 2023
The plot finally picks up in this book, towards the end, and starts its slow trudge towards the Big Thing.
We start to get a picture of an Impending Something, and that’s good, since it was entirely absent from the first book (which was more like a prologue to the series, I suppose).
It’s interesting and well written enough; keeps up a good pace.
But the main antagonist in this book really reminds me a lot of Spike (from Buffy).
Why, you ask? He just never gets it right and keeps failing to the protagonist. Over and over again, while spouting stuff you’d expect to hear from Spike, and has an ego to match.
I also swear he has a British accent, since he calls people sods all of the time.
Didn’t really care for the protagonist, or her son… who she decided to give birth to, regardless of her situation or, you know… the fact that it was conceived via rape.
No one is likeable, honestly. But I guess that’s ok. The story is finally getting interesting, and I’m keen on seeing where it goes!
We start to get a picture of an Impending Something, and that’s good, since it was entirely absent from the first book (which was more like a prologue to the series, I suppose).
It’s interesting and well written enough; keeps up a good pace.
But the main antagonist in this book really reminds me a lot of Spike (from Buffy).
Why, you ask? He just never gets it right and keeps failing to the protagonist. Over and over again, while spouting stuff you’d expect to hear from Spike, and has an ego to match.
I also swear he has a British accent, since he calls people sods all of the time.
Didn’t really care for the protagonist, or her son… who she decided to give birth to, regardless of her situation or, you know… the fact that it was conceived via rape.
No one is likeable, honestly. But I guess that’s ok. The story is finally getting interesting, and I’m keen on seeing where it goes!
August 22, 2018
EDIT: I'm NOT interested in continuing with this series. I'm NOT interested in "getting through" the despicable things in these books. I don't care if there's a pay off. I don't care if horrible people find redemption. I don't care how good the rest of the series is. THIS is how this author chose to start it. NOT. INTERESTED. Take your fucking trolling somewhere else. I'm allowed not to like something and allowed not to read masturbatory rape fantasies.
If The Real Story was vile and disgusting, this book is so much more uncomfortable and disturbing. If you couldn't take what happens in The Real Story, do not continue with these books. I kept not wanting to read this book, but still found myself picking it up thinking that it has to get better, but the conclusion of Chapter 10 just made me think, "This guy (the author) is SICK!" Seriously. There was absolutely no point to the disgusting thing that happens at the end of Chapter 10. It is repulsive, and that wasn't even the worst of the disgusting things that happen, it was just the straw that broke my back.
These three main characters are so disturbed and so flawed that they are completely unbelievable. No one can be this vile, pathetic and stupid. The characters are constantly speculating about each other's motives, and then re-speculating and then speculating on the speculations that it is impossible to tell what "the real story" is. There is subterfuge under subterfuge under subterfuge, so you can't figure out what the hell is going on. The characters are constantly doing things they do not want to do. They agonize and hate and spit bile for paragraphs and pages about not wanting to do what they are doing, but they do it anyway. It is disturbing to me that an author in this day and age would write so pathetic, so weak, so frustrating a female character who ALLOWS herself to be treated in these disgusting ways. You can argue that she doesn't have a choice at this point, but she did at the end of The Real Story. That the author would think it believable a woman would do this to herself is unsettling at best. Perhaps she has her moment later, but I just can't bring myself to go through more of this with her.
If The Real Story was vile and disgusting, this book is so much more uncomfortable and disturbing. If you couldn't take what happens in The Real Story, do not continue with these books. I kept not wanting to read this book, but still found myself picking it up thinking that it has to get better, but the conclusion of Chapter 10 just made me think, "This guy (the author) is SICK!" Seriously. There was absolutely no point to the disgusting thing that happens at the end of Chapter 10. It is repulsive, and that wasn't even the worst of the disgusting things that happen, it was just the straw that broke my back.
These three main characters are so disturbed and so flawed that they are completely unbelievable. No one can be this vile, pathetic and stupid. The characters are constantly speculating about each other's motives, and then re-speculating and then speculating on the speculations that it is impossible to tell what "the real story" is. There is subterfuge under subterfuge under subterfuge, so you can't figure out what the hell is going on. The characters are constantly doing things they do not want to do. They agonize and hate and spit bile for paragraphs and pages about not wanting to do what they are doing, but they do it anyway. It is disturbing to me that an author in this day and age would write so pathetic, so weak, so frustrating a female character who ALLOWS herself to be treated in these disgusting ways. You can argue that she doesn't have a choice at this point, but she did at the end of The Real Story. That the author would think it believable a woman would do this to herself is unsettling at best. Perhaps she has her moment later, but I just can't bring myself to go through more of this with her.
May 13, 2022
So I’m finally two books into this gap series, the first book was like almost a novella which could’ve just been added to this book or vice versa. This story is so 🤬.
It’s like Watching an episode of Law & Order SVU in space without an investigation and the cop is the abused.
I don’t know who is going already bought the whole set so I’m gonna be on reading I’m kind of reading and listening to it back-and-forth Scott Brick as a the narrator.
Well I hope it gets more science-fiction me a little bit more and get away from all this gosh I don’t know it’s just like the technical device ( Zone Implant Control)is basically almost a date rape drug! that the user or victim or Vic’s versa.
She reached into her pocket and brought up a surge of artificial lust from her zone implant control.Then she unsealed her ship suit and stepped out of it.
At least the victim totally helpless wow they are aware what’s going on. I love his writing I love his style I love how he interprets things but this story is again I’m gonna say it 🤬.
The world building is great there’s new alien called Amnion, from the Forbidden Space.
I like them what happens what they do is really cool, can’t give any spoilers characters all about manipulation it’s all about what’s in it for them.
I didn’t hate it I don’t love it but, Donaldson kept me going!!
I give me a four ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️4.5 Stars
his writing Like always is impeccable.
It’s like Watching an episode of Law & Order SVU in space without an investigation and the cop is the abused.
I don’t know who is going already bought the whole set so I’m gonna be on reading I’m kind of reading and listening to it back-and-forth Scott Brick as a the narrator.
Well I hope it gets more science-fiction me a little bit more and get away from all this gosh I don’t know it’s just like the technical device ( Zone Implant Control)is basically almost a date rape drug! that the user or victim or Vic’s versa.
She reached into her pocket and brought up a surge of artificial lust from her zone implant control.Then she unsealed her ship suit and stepped out of it.
At least the victim totally helpless wow they are aware what’s going on. I love his writing I love his style I love how he interprets things but this story is again I’m gonna say it 🤬.
The world building is great there’s new alien called Amnion, from the Forbidden Space.
I like them what happens what they do is really cool, can’t give any spoilers characters all about manipulation it’s all about what’s in it for them.
I didn’t hate it I don’t love it but, Donaldson kept me going!!
I give me a four ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️4.5 Stars
his writing Like always is impeccable.
June 12, 2011
OMG!!!! After reading the first book in this series I grudgingly picked up Forbidden Knowledge. Wow is all I have to say. It is like Donaldson wasn't really sure what he was going for in the first book and the decided to really let go after that. The way he shows just how low and depraved the human species can get is amazing.
July 5, 2022
It's too bad that the first book seems to be a major turnoff for readers of the series. The story really gets going in this book and I look forward to starting book 3.
October 28, 2020
I know this is only book two in the series, but for me, the series stops here.
Too much raping, pillaging and plundering. Well, two much of the first one for my taste anyway. The characters exhibit far too much repetition of their behaviors/attitudes. No surprises, no growth. Fear, hate, fear hate and yet more fear and hate. To seemingly little point. Far, far too many in-your-face references to blood-tinged scars under the eyes. That one became really annoying. I couldn't attach emotionally to any of the main characters or their troubles/wants as I found them all representative of people I wouldn't ever like to meet.
I loved the Thomas Covenant books (I think I still have some of them somewhere), so I was hoping for a similar experience with this series. I gave it two books, but that's enough. Time to move on...
Too much raping, pillaging and plundering. Well, two much of the first one for my taste anyway. The characters exhibit far too much repetition of their behaviors/attitudes. No surprises, no growth. Fear, hate, fear hate and yet more fear and hate. To seemingly little point. Far, far too many in-your-face references to blood-tinged scars under the eyes. That one became really annoying. I couldn't attach emotionally to any of the main characters or their troubles/wants as I found them all representative of people I wouldn't ever like to meet.
I loved the Thomas Covenant books (I think I still have some of them somewhere), so I was hoping for a similar experience with this series. I gave it two books, but that's enough. Time to move on...
June 20, 2015
When I say read.... It's because I'm done with this. I won't finish it. Really quite nasty. Rape is not something I want to read about and the main character is passed about (at least as far as I got) to be used and abused. I'm off to find more pleasant reading.
Read
October 25, 2020A 1991 scifi novel, this work continues the story of Angus, Morn and Nick begun in The Real Story. An unexpected pregnancy, the manner in which one can control a zone implant - a device to control the behaviour of others - travels to other worlds, encounters with the Amnion, a species known for their ability to alter DNA, the artificial growing of a fetus to the age of sixteen, a mind imprint, more than one double cross and a transformation of a character into a cyborg are just some of the events which carry this novel, which I would class as 'high scifi', through events and situations which are as imaginative as they are engaging.
Recommended.
Recommended.
June 16, 2022
I've still got a couple hours, but there's not really anything that can happen to change my mind. This will be my last book in this series. I like realistic, flawed characters, but so many of Donaldson's characters are flat-out mad. Does Donaldson believe that rape, hate and the need to dominate rule every man's mind? If so, perhaps it's time to turn off the feminist podcast.
Great narration by Scott Brick.
Great narration by Scott Brick.
August 10, 2021
Most of this novel is more of the same from volume 1. Instead of a space action/adventure, this series (so far, anyway) is more like a soap opera with a major focus on rape, mind control, and torture. It's a good thing that it's so well written, because a novel made up mostly of people standing around and talking to each other with very little action would otherwise lose me fast.
February 12, 2023
Bored.
July 9, 2023
Absolute perfection.
November 29, 2022
I give this and the previous book a tentative 3 stars but was tempted to give both a 2. Why my trepidation? I see three problems with these books:
- Unlikeable characters. Except for the masochist Morn, all the main characters come off as sadistic- and because of that, one dimensional. Is everyone so unpleasant? Most of the characters are psychopaths and their brutality is extreme. Its like a galaxy of Hannibal Lecter's (without the charm).The main characteristics of the individuals is they like to humiliate their enemies, they are very sensitive to insults, they are Machiavellian about everything they do, and they are insecure. I have noticed some other authors that are similar- China Mievelle comes to mind. I just don't find these one-dimensional characters believable.
- Unrealistic society. Related to these character traits is the society is pretty depressing and illogical. I don't understand why everyone is so poor and desperate? Corruption and greed seem to be rampant. Where is the wealth going? Where are the automated factories? Related to this the economics don't make sense... why are resources so in demand and supplies so short that pirates will readily murder other miners for their supplies? The society is not actively at war so what is consuming the resources? Also, why is earth so prominent? If we are going to the stars a large part of our solar system is probably colonized. They should be talking about dozens of other worlds. How come we have one or two large corporations- wouldn't these be countries? It just does not seem as if the worldbuilding is a priority.
- The physics and science are not realistic. Are the asteroid miners in our solar system? Another solar system? If there are billions of stars in our galaxy wouldn't there be other places to mine resources so people don't have to be pirates and blow each other up? How come forbidden space seems to be a distinct line with an illegal ship dock right on the other side of the border? When borders are likely measured in hundreds of light years and likely thousands of stars are on the border, it does not make sense. The physics of star travel and space travel is clearly not understood .
This is really more of a mythology story transported to a science fiction setting. The characters are not meant to be real people. If you accept that you, like me, will give it some slack. The story moves quickly and I like the intrigue... even if the events seem improbable. Depending on how the next few books pan out will determine whether I reduce the rating to 2's.
- Unlikeable characters. Except for the masochist Morn, all the main characters come off as sadistic- and because of that, one dimensional. Is everyone so unpleasant? Most of the characters are psychopaths and their brutality is extreme. Its like a galaxy of Hannibal Lecter's (without the charm).The main characteristics of the individuals is they like to humiliate their enemies, they are very sensitive to insults, they are Machiavellian about everything they do, and they are insecure. I have noticed some other authors that are similar- China Mievelle comes to mind. I just don't find these one-dimensional characters believable.
- Unrealistic society. Related to these character traits is the society is pretty depressing and illogical. I don't understand why everyone is so poor and desperate? Corruption and greed seem to be rampant. Where is the wealth going? Where are the automated factories? Related to this the economics don't make sense... why are resources so in demand and supplies so short that pirates will readily murder other miners for their supplies? The society is not actively at war so what is consuming the resources? Also, why is earth so prominent? If we are going to the stars a large part of our solar system is probably colonized. They should be talking about dozens of other worlds. How come we have one or two large corporations- wouldn't these be countries? It just does not seem as if the worldbuilding is a priority.
- The physics and science are not realistic. Are the asteroid miners in our solar system? Another solar system? If there are billions of stars in our galaxy wouldn't there be other places to mine resources so people don't have to be pirates and blow each other up? How come forbidden space seems to be a distinct line with an illegal ship dock right on the other side of the border? When borders are likely measured in hundreds of light years and likely thousands of stars are on the border, it does not make sense. The physics of star travel and space travel is clearly not understood .
This is really more of a mythology story transported to a science fiction setting. The characters are not meant to be real people. If you accept that you, like me, will give it some slack. The story moves quickly and I like the intrigue... even if the events seem improbable. Depending on how the next few books pan out will determine whether I reduce the rating to 2's.
November 19, 2018
Good story...
October 12, 2024
My second reading of this novel followed hot on the heals of my re-read of the first part of the series (The Gap Into Conflict: The Real Story). And unlike the first part, this (and the rest of the series) doesn't stand alone and probably wants to be read one after the other in quick succession. Having said that I think I will take a break and read something else before I come back to part 3. This is partly because the story is so intense.
This book follows straight on from the events of the last book where we mostly focus on Morn's POV where she struggles to survive and adapt to her new situation. And this situation is, it turns out, not much better than the one she was in when she was the captive of Angus Thermapyle. At least now she has control over the zone implant and can even use it to help her make the best of things. But as the ship and the crew move from one crisis to another, her situation is deeply precarious and becomes even more so when she discovers an unexpected legacy of her captivity with Angus that gives her something else to worry about besides her own survival.
We also encounter the Amnion, a fearful alien race that is an uneasy truce with Humanity and we learn about some of corrupt machinations of the UCMP that police human kind.
Again, this is not for the feint hearted. The book contains some strong adult themes and, while not quite as disturbing as the first part of the series, this is still not going to be for a lot of people. But then again, if you're contemplating reading this, you must have survived the first book so you will know what to expect.
This book follows straight on from the events of the last book where we mostly focus on Morn's POV where she struggles to survive and adapt to her new situation. And this situation is, it turns out, not much better than the one she was in when she was the captive of Angus Thermapyle. At least now she has control over the zone implant and can even use it to help her make the best of things. But as the ship and the crew move from one crisis to another, her situation is deeply precarious and becomes even more so when she discovers an unexpected legacy of her captivity with Angus that gives her something else to worry about besides her own survival.
We also encounter the Amnion, a fearful alien race that is an uneasy truce with Humanity and we learn about some of corrupt machinations of the UCMP that police human kind.
Again, this is not for the feint hearted. The book contains some strong adult themes and, while not quite as disturbing as the first part of the series, this is still not going to be for a lot of people. But then again, if you're contemplating reading this, you must have survived the first book so you will know what to expect.
July 14, 2015
The second book in the Gap series moves the story from the seemingly personal (and often very disturbing) stories of Morn Hyland, Angus Thermopyle, and Nick Succorso, to the political intrigues that set up the situations in which they find themselves. Donaldson introduces the power players behind the machinations and provides some history of the world in which they live, but even so, most of this novel is really prelude to the real action that comes in the later novels.
Donaldson is a great writer and his compelling story-telling keeps the reader engaged. Heaven knows I stayed up far too late, and this is my second reading of the series.
Four stars instead of five because many readers will find the sexual content of the book off-putting. It's key to the plot and not as graphic as many other writers', but it is consistently unsettling as the sexual relationships are just as much power plays as are the political schemes. As in the first book of the series, there's plenty here that I'd just as soon scrub out of my brain.
Also, the five books of this series are really a single book broken into manageable portions. If you're looking for a complete narrative arc, you'll have to commit to reading all five books. The first novella is the hardest to get through in terms of disturbing content and really doesn't give a proper idea of what the series is about. If you can get through the first two, you'll at least have an idea where this is going, as well as an appreciation of Donaldson's skill. The series is well worth the time it takes and the persistence to get through the set-up to the meat of the plot.
Donaldson is a great writer and his compelling story-telling keeps the reader engaged. Heaven knows I stayed up far too late, and this is my second reading of the series.
Four stars instead of five because many readers will find the sexual content of the book off-putting. It's key to the plot and not as graphic as many other writers', but it is consistently unsettling as the sexual relationships are just as much power plays as are the political schemes. As in the first book of the series, there's plenty here that I'd just as soon scrub out of my brain.
Also, the five books of this series are really a single book broken into manageable portions. If you're looking for a complete narrative arc, you'll have to commit to reading all five books. The first novella is the hardest to get through in terms of disturbing content and really doesn't give a proper idea of what the series is about. If you can get through the first two, you'll at least have an idea where this is going, as well as an appreciation of Donaldson's skill. The series is well worth the time it takes and the persistence to get through the set-up to the meat of the plot.
September 13, 2024
Donaldson created a rich and interesting science fiction universe and then polluted it with an excessive amount of rape and general female abuse. It's clear that the overarching theme for The Gap is forced control - zone implants, the Amnion changing genetic structures, Angus' welding, and sexual abuse - but that doesnt justify just how heavily Donaldson leans on the sexual abuse element. In the context of the story, setting, and arc of the protagonist, some degree of abuse is understandable to establish the brutality of the universe where the story takes place,
the development of the protagonist, and establishing the overall theme. Donaldson goes far past this, however, with either outright sexual assault or some reference to it occurring with incredible frequency. In addition, sexual abuse or the effects of it are the primary motivating factors for every protagonist, with little else coloring their character. The result is a repetitive slog of characters abusing each othed mixed with their reflection on that abuse, interspersed with small pieces of plot advancement in between. The few characters (e.g. Vector) that he gives time to that exist outside of this cycle provide a brief respite, which is ultimately worse for the reader because of their transience and the knowledge that we must return to the suffering of the one dimensional protagonists.
the development of the protagonist, and establishing the overall theme. Donaldson goes far past this, however, with either outright sexual assault or some reference to it occurring with incredible frequency. In addition, sexual abuse or the effects of it are the primary motivating factors for every protagonist, with little else coloring their character. The result is a repetitive slog of characters abusing each othed mixed with their reflection on that abuse, interspersed with small pieces of plot advancement in between. The few characters (e.g. Vector) that he gives time to that exist outside of this cycle provide a brief respite, which is ultimately worse for the reader because of their transience and the knowledge that we must return to the suffering of the one dimensional protagonists.
March 9, 2016
I generally consider myself a realist/pragmatist, but the level of cynicism in Donaldson's work is crushing. Every chapter is another stone laid upon the reader's chest. Just when it feels you'll suffocate, the book ends.
You ever see that movie Irreversible? I've used that movie as an example of a great-film-I-never-want-to-see-again whenever the idea comes up in conversation.
Forbidden Knowledge is a lot like Irreversible. It's not quite great, but it is good, and I doubt I'd ever want to read it again. I'm not sure I'll read the next book in the series (eh, who am I kidding? There's a 99% chance that I will...); at the least, I need a break from the unrelenting bleakness of Donaldson's universe.
I'd say that overall I enjoyed this novel, but that's not really true. The story is compelling, and I felt compelled to read it. But enjoyed? No, that's not quite right. I think the most interesting thing about this book is that no matter how deep into the depths of depravity the characters fall, Donaldson is still just scratching the surface of what humanity is capable of doing. And that's terrifying.
Sorry for the rambling mess of a review. I should probably not write reviews when I'm sick.
You ever see that movie Irreversible? I've used that movie as an example of a great-film-I-never-want-to-see-again whenever the idea comes up in conversation.
Forbidden Knowledge is a lot like Irreversible. It's not quite great, but it is good, and I doubt I'd ever want to read it again. I'm not sure I'll read the next book in the series (eh, who am I kidding? There's a 99% chance that I will...); at the least, I need a break from the unrelenting bleakness of Donaldson's universe.
I'd say that overall I enjoyed this novel, but that's not really true. The story is compelling, and I felt compelled to read it. But enjoyed? No, that's not quite right. I think the most interesting thing about this book is that no matter how deep into the depths of depravity the characters fall, Donaldson is still just scratching the surface of what humanity is capable of doing. And that's terrifying.
Sorry for the rambling mess of a review. I should probably not write reviews when I'm sick.
Read
February 1, 2022https://loopingworld.com/2022/02/01/f...
To write about Forbidden Knowledge I’d have to go back and reintroduce The Real Story, which is also unlikely because it’s been two years already. It’s hard for me to say I “enjoyed” the read, because things here are quite painful. These are stories about abuse. Heavy, painful abuse done by disagreeable characters, pushed to the extreme, and then pushed again further. The horror is not implied. The thing that Donaldson does best, especially in Forbidden Knowledge is giving you the first person perspective. The “I” that FEELS. There is no blinking, there are no eyes averted from the brutality. It goes deep, in the flesh, and the mind. The physical abuse is surpassed by the psychological, emotional pain, that ends up soaking everything. It’s not simple to “praise” this type of writing, but it is what it is. There are moments when the protagonist has a worry, in the back of her mind, that page by page worms its way up, until it becomes everything she sees, despite what happens all around her urgently demands her attention. This kind of obsessive whirlpool is the real engine of the story. It’s what pushes every character to do the impossible, whether it is to cause pain or desperate survival.
On the other hand, the plot is engaging. “The Real Story” has a feel so pulpy that it’s almost like reading Charles Bukowski in space. Even the technology is old-school, with a “retro” and gritty, grimy feel similar to Mad Max, but written so well that it makes sense. Computers and spaceships aren’t a noisy background, they are the pulpy meat of the plot. Rules kept simple, but well thought, so they they are pieces of information you can get familiar with. In the first book the story fits in your hand. A puzzle with many small parts that you assemble piece by piece, and the satisfaction of seeing it click. It’s space opera, but only engaging with three characters and a space station. It’s personal, it’s human, in all ways right and terribly wrong. “Forbidden Story” smoothly follows. It’s not anymore a puzzle with a solution, but a desperate attempt to an escape. So desperate that the only way is going deeper. Until the lack of an exit becomes the least worry. The abusers of the first book get their abuse served back to them, and then more. At some 2/3 though the book things start to get silly, to the point I honestly thought it was all going off the rails(*). But that’s where Donaldson has his skill. The story is rooted so well and deeply in the psychology of the characters that he makes the silly still make sense. The sense of urgency, of pain and even filth, don’t give enough space to disentangle emotionally. It works. Aliens step into the story, you get more infos about “the stage”, the story opens up. To a scale that isn’t anymore personal, but that is still 100% driven personally. I suppose things will continue to open and escalate in the following books.
But these two books are not made of two halves. The plot is entangled with the abuse. It’s a great sci-fi story, I think really well written, with vivid characters. It also means the abuse itself is vivid. It goes beyond a problem of “trigger warning”, but also why I end up praising it. That’s why I was wrong even joking about the “kinky mindcontrol”. There isn’t anything kinky or suggestive about it. There is no satisfaction in it, no matter how perverse. Donaldson describes it the way it is, with no qualms. It’s disgusting. What’s essentially a pulpy page-turner gets hard to read because the amount of ruthless, unrelenting abuse. This second book pushes it further, to levels that are absurd and unhinged. But here’s the point: this isn’t a story about villains. We generally end up praising villains that are well written, when they have plausible motivations. Here it’s one step beyond because the tables are turned, so many times. It’s not a case of a complex character that is well written. The abuse is so prominent that is is the theme. But it’s not about abuse, it’s about agency. And the questions being asked dig deeper than a villain with plausible motivations.
The first book was indeed about abuse. Ripping agency out of a victim, but the victim being smart and hard enough to be able to push back, with vengeance despite having no control and no hope. The abuser pushed so deep down his hole, leaving him howling in pain. In the second book I think roles don’t matter anymore. And the theme is pushed deeper. What is even agency when you can turn pain into pleasure by pressing a button. Donaldson, who wrote the deep emotional feel of a point of view on the page, breaks the rules. It opens the skull to play with the brain, to rewire it. But it is never the curiosity to make an experiment.
Characters still drive the plot. 100% of it. All the characters, even those on the side, have a reason to be where they are, and the pain they deliver to others is because they are also pushed to their limits. They try their best to survive, despite everything that happens around them pushes them to their limit. Then the limits are broken. Till the point Donaldson gives you a sense of annihilation. Where even survival is being doubted.
That’s why, for me, it’s such a great book. Every nuance and act of a character has a cause. Even when an abuser stops the abuse, it has a cause. The physical abuse is only superficial compared to the psychological and emotional. And it goes back and forward between abuser and abused that all roles vanish. Characters that are moved, by what they are and how they feel, so that they are trapped with themselves and in themselves. And you are in there, locked in there, with eyes wide open because there’s no other place to be. No escape, no elsewhere.
Dare you enter. Let the book tell its story.
(*)
Fun fact. The book I have has at its end an ad for the following volume… That in just a few lines of text contains a MASSIVE spoiler about something that happens in THIS book. Back in 2020 I read it, and so fell victim to that spoiler. When I picked back up the book early this month, a year and a half later, I completely forgot that part. So I un-spoiled myself.
To write about Forbidden Knowledge I’d have to go back and reintroduce The Real Story, which is also unlikely because it’s been two years already. It’s hard for me to say I “enjoyed” the read, because things here are quite painful. These are stories about abuse. Heavy, painful abuse done by disagreeable characters, pushed to the extreme, and then pushed again further. The horror is not implied. The thing that Donaldson does best, especially in Forbidden Knowledge is giving you the first person perspective. The “I” that FEELS. There is no blinking, there are no eyes averted from the brutality. It goes deep, in the flesh, and the mind. The physical abuse is surpassed by the psychological, emotional pain, that ends up soaking everything. It’s not simple to “praise” this type of writing, but it is what it is. There are moments when the protagonist has a worry, in the back of her mind, that page by page worms its way up, until it becomes everything she sees, despite what happens all around her urgently demands her attention. This kind of obsessive whirlpool is the real engine of the story. It’s what pushes every character to do the impossible, whether it is to cause pain or desperate survival.
On the other hand, the plot is engaging. “The Real Story” has a feel so pulpy that it’s almost like reading Charles Bukowski in space. Even the technology is old-school, with a “retro” and gritty, grimy feel similar to Mad Max, but written so well that it makes sense. Computers and spaceships aren’t a noisy background, they are the pulpy meat of the plot. Rules kept simple, but well thought, so they they are pieces of information you can get familiar with. In the first book the story fits in your hand. A puzzle with many small parts that you assemble piece by piece, and the satisfaction of seeing it click. It’s space opera, but only engaging with three characters and a space station. It’s personal, it’s human, in all ways right and terribly wrong. “Forbidden Story” smoothly follows. It’s not anymore a puzzle with a solution, but a desperate attempt to an escape. So desperate that the only way is going deeper. Until the lack of an exit becomes the least worry. The abusers of the first book get their abuse served back to them, and then more. At some 2/3 though the book things start to get silly, to the point I honestly thought it was all going off the rails(*). But that’s where Donaldson has his skill. The story is rooted so well and deeply in the psychology of the characters that he makes the silly still make sense. The sense of urgency, of pain and even filth, don’t give enough space to disentangle emotionally. It works. Aliens step into the story, you get more infos about “the stage”, the story opens up. To a scale that isn’t anymore personal, but that is still 100% driven personally. I suppose things will continue to open and escalate in the following books.
But these two books are not made of two halves. The plot is entangled with the abuse. It’s a great sci-fi story, I think really well written, with vivid characters. It also means the abuse itself is vivid. It goes beyond a problem of “trigger warning”, but also why I end up praising it. That’s why I was wrong even joking about the “kinky mindcontrol”. There isn’t anything kinky or suggestive about it. There is no satisfaction in it, no matter how perverse. Donaldson describes it the way it is, with no qualms. It’s disgusting. What’s essentially a pulpy page-turner gets hard to read because the amount of ruthless, unrelenting abuse. This second book pushes it further, to levels that are absurd and unhinged. But here’s the point: this isn’t a story about villains. We generally end up praising villains that are well written, when they have plausible motivations. Here it’s one step beyond because the tables are turned, so many times. It’s not a case of a complex character that is well written. The abuse is so prominent that is is the theme. But it’s not about abuse, it’s about agency. And the questions being asked dig deeper than a villain with plausible motivations.
The first book was indeed about abuse. Ripping agency out of a victim, but the victim being smart and hard enough to be able to push back, with vengeance despite having no control and no hope. The abuser pushed so deep down his hole, leaving him howling in pain. In the second book I think roles don’t matter anymore. And the theme is pushed deeper. What is even agency when you can turn pain into pleasure by pressing a button. Donaldson, who wrote the deep emotional feel of a point of view on the page, breaks the rules. It opens the skull to play with the brain, to rewire it. But it is never the curiosity to make an experiment.
Characters still drive the plot. 100% of it. All the characters, even those on the side, have a reason to be where they are, and the pain they deliver to others is because they are also pushed to their limits. They try their best to survive, despite everything that happens around them pushes them to their limit. Then the limits are broken. Till the point Donaldson gives you a sense of annihilation. Where even survival is being doubted.
That’s why, for me, it’s such a great book. Every nuance and act of a character has a cause. Even when an abuser stops the abuse, it has a cause. The physical abuse is only superficial compared to the psychological and emotional. And it goes back and forward between abuser and abused that all roles vanish. Characters that are moved, by what they are and how they feel, so that they are trapped with themselves and in themselves. And you are in there, locked in there, with eyes wide open because there’s no other place to be. No escape, no elsewhere.
Dare you enter. Let the book tell its story.
(*)
Fun fact. The book I have has at its end an ad for the following volume… That in just a few lines of text contains a MASSIVE spoiler about something that happens in THIS book. Back in 2020 I read it, and so fell victim to that spoiler. When I picked back up the book early this month, a year and a half later, I completely forgot that part. So I un-spoiled myself.
March 10, 2020
Very glad I stuck it out with the first novel in this series; it was well worth the investment. I'm somewhat amused at the number of reviewers who complain they couldn't 'identify' with any of the characters in the novel, and thus, their reviews were usually scathing. I like the distance from the characters, though. It all adds to the suspension of disbelief. The reality is that Donaldson paints his characters just as they're supposed to be: utterly human and, generally speaking, utterly selfish and despicable. He doesn't bother to coat a single one of them with the cliche'd veneer of goodness; as a rule, he seems to despise the veneer, which is likely why the 'hero' of the series so far is an anti-hero (much like Thomas Covenant was in his first breakout fantasy series). It's a story which rams home the fact that -- as so often in human history -- the plight of everyone rests in the hands of just a handful of people who are, nearly always, complete a**holes.
As distasteful as a few parts are to my modern sensibilities, I still say it's a winner for its portrayal of human behavior for what it most commonly is: horrible.
As distasteful as a few parts are to my modern sensibilities, I still say it's a winner for its portrayal of human behavior for what it most commonly is: horrible.
Displaying 1 - 30 of 216 reviews