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Dangerous Games: What the Moral Panic over Role-Playing Games Says about Play, Religion, and Imagined Worlds
The 1980s saw the peak of a moral panic over fantasy role-playing games such as Dungeons and Dragons. A coalition of moral entrepreneurs that included representatives from the Christian Right, the field of psychology, and law enforcement claimed that these games were not only psychologically dangerous but an occult religion masquerading as a game. Dangerous Games explores both the history and the sociological significance of this panic. Fantasy role-playing games do share several functions in common with religion. However, religion—as a socially constructed world of shared meaning—can also be compared to a fantasy role-playing game. In fact, the claims of the moral entrepreneurs, in which they presented themselves as heroes battling a dark conspiracy, often resembled the very games of imagination they condemned as evil. By attacking the imagination, they preserved the taken-for-granted status of their own socially constructed reality. Interpreted in this way, the panic over fantasy-role playing games yields new insights about how humans play and together construct and maintain meaningful worlds. Laycock’s clear and accessible writing ensures that Dangerous Games will be required reading for those with an interest in religion, popular culture, and social behavior, both in the classroom and beyond.
365 pages, Kindle Edition
First published February 10, 2015
34 people are currently reading
765 people want to read
About the author
Joseph Laycock
17 books89 followersJoseph P. Laycock is an associate professor of religious studies at Texas State University. He teaches courses on world religions, religion in America, new religious movements, and the intersection of religion and popular culture.
He is the author of several books including The Penguin Book of Exorcisms, Speak of the Devil: How The Satanic Temple is Changing the Way We Talk About Religion, Dangerous Games: What the Moral Panic Over Role-Playing Games Says About Play, Religion, and Imagined Worlds and The Seer of Bayside: Veronica Lueken and the Struggle to Define Catholicism.
He is the author of several books including The Penguin Book of Exorcisms, Speak of the Devil: How The Satanic Temple is Changing the Way We Talk About Religion, Dangerous Games: What the Moral Panic Over Role-Playing Games Says About Play, Religion, and Imagined Worlds and The Seer of Bayside: Veronica Lueken and the Struggle to Define Catholicism.
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Displaying 1 - 27 of 28 reviews
May 29, 2019
I can’t remember the last time I enjoyed reading a scholarly book this much. The subject matter is fascinating, the methodology is solid, the writing is both erudite and accessible. The whole thing, in short, is a joy to read. I want to make sure I start by making this very clear, because my review will include a few criticisms, but these should not take away from any potential reader’s interest in the book.
This is one of the first serious efforts to look at the importance of the game “Dungeons and Dragons” in the social history of the United States (and ultimately the world). Some others include “Empire of Imagination,” a biography of Gary Gygax the (co?)creator of the game, “Playing at the World,” a richly detailed examination of primary sources from the gaming community, and “Of Dice and Men,” a breezy journalistic account with a lot of irrelevant personal data about the author’s gaming. The first and third of these are primarily popular resources, written largely for a mass audience’s entertainment, while the middle is more for specialists studying the history of gaming itself, not its impact on culture. This book goes that one step further to inquire about what D&D meant, not just what it was.
Laycock examines fantasy role-playing games by using theoretical understandings of “play,” “liminality,” and “re-enchantment” to discover that in creating imagined worlds, players are actually creating meaning that can be translated to daily life by modifying their perspectives on reality and the possibilities within it. This, he finds, is what made them seem threatening to groups of fundamentalist Christians and others who created a moral panic about D&D in the 1980s. By encouraging the imagination, they threatened belief systems which required unquestioning faith. Furthermore, he finds that the kinds of alternative thinking encouraged by gaming really did mirror the world-building of religious thinking, thus there was a sliver of truth in their claim that D&D “was a religion.” He gives examples of groups that have adopted role-playing terminology and concepts into neo-pagan and other alternative religions, finding that some people can move easily between the frames of games and reality, although they do not generally “confuse” them or lose the ability to distinguish reality as the claims-makers would have it. Instead, they find it possible to “play” with belief more freely because they have been able to test it in a lower-stakes arena.
To present these arguments, Laycock makes use of a tremendous amount of evidence from both the history of gaming and also the history of the moral panic over D&D. At times, wading through the words of individuals like Jack Chick and groups like Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons (BADD) gets to be both tedious and frightening. But, this examination is an important reminder of how certain people will rise to take advantage of the fears and uncertainties of segments of the population, gaining positions of authority and public acclaim for reinforcing the darkest fears of the ignorant, while causing innocent people to suffer public humiliation and sometimes prosecution or prison. In the present climate, this is a valuable reminder, and noting the recent rise in teen suicide, I wonder if this country may be due for a new moral panic in the near future.
The book does have some problems. Laycock’s analysis of the new Christian Right is far from unbiased, and even appears to suggest that scholarly religious study and biblical literalism are fundamental opposed – which means that there may be no way for academics ever to truly understand one of the most influential religious movements in American history. At times, I feel like his approach to them mirrors their approach to D&D: he tells us that they were guilty of most of what they accused others of, and I wonder if we might say the same about him. His insistence on describing them as “moral entrepreneurs” and their ideas “conspiracy theories” reinforces this sense of bias. Of course, he does not make these statements lightly, and much evidence is wielded to expose the contradictory and often quite amoral lives these people led, so this is not simply name-calling but rather a conclusion that was probably a bit weighted by the inherent biases of the author.
One other minor point is in regard to the copy-editing, which is excellent for the most part, but strangely lacking in the notes and bibliography. One almost gets the impression that a different person handed the end matter. The most glaring error in the notes is the consistent mis-naming of Rona Jaffe’s book “Mazes and Monsters” as “Monsters and Mazes.” This is a relatively minor point, not likely to lead any attentive researcher astray (it’s right in the bibliography, and in the text of the book), but far more maddening is the many sources which appear in the notes without being included in the bibliography. This means that on subsequent references to a source, one has to track backward through the notes in order to find the first complete entry when you want to know what he is referencing. This will make reproducing his research an exercise in frustration.
As I said above, however, these points should not stop anyone who is interested in the subject from reading this book. I was fascinated with it at every point, and I learned something about myself and my world in the process. Surely no higher praise can be given to any book.
This is one of the first serious efforts to look at the importance of the game “Dungeons and Dragons” in the social history of the United States (and ultimately the world). Some others include “Empire of Imagination,” a biography of Gary Gygax the (co?)creator of the game, “Playing at the World,” a richly detailed examination of primary sources from the gaming community, and “Of Dice and Men,” a breezy journalistic account with a lot of irrelevant personal data about the author’s gaming. The first and third of these are primarily popular resources, written largely for a mass audience’s entertainment, while the middle is more for specialists studying the history of gaming itself, not its impact on culture. This book goes that one step further to inquire about what D&D meant, not just what it was.
Laycock examines fantasy role-playing games by using theoretical understandings of “play,” “liminality,” and “re-enchantment” to discover that in creating imagined worlds, players are actually creating meaning that can be translated to daily life by modifying their perspectives on reality and the possibilities within it. This, he finds, is what made them seem threatening to groups of fundamentalist Christians and others who created a moral panic about D&D in the 1980s. By encouraging the imagination, they threatened belief systems which required unquestioning faith. Furthermore, he finds that the kinds of alternative thinking encouraged by gaming really did mirror the world-building of religious thinking, thus there was a sliver of truth in their claim that D&D “was a religion.” He gives examples of groups that have adopted role-playing terminology and concepts into neo-pagan and other alternative religions, finding that some people can move easily between the frames of games and reality, although they do not generally “confuse” them or lose the ability to distinguish reality as the claims-makers would have it. Instead, they find it possible to “play” with belief more freely because they have been able to test it in a lower-stakes arena.
To present these arguments, Laycock makes use of a tremendous amount of evidence from both the history of gaming and also the history of the moral panic over D&D. At times, wading through the words of individuals like Jack Chick and groups like Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons (BADD) gets to be both tedious and frightening. But, this examination is an important reminder of how certain people will rise to take advantage of the fears and uncertainties of segments of the population, gaining positions of authority and public acclaim for reinforcing the darkest fears of the ignorant, while causing innocent people to suffer public humiliation and sometimes prosecution or prison. In the present climate, this is a valuable reminder, and noting the recent rise in teen suicide, I wonder if this country may be due for a new moral panic in the near future.
The book does have some problems. Laycock’s analysis of the new Christian Right is far from unbiased, and even appears to suggest that scholarly religious study and biblical literalism are fundamental opposed – which means that there may be no way for academics ever to truly understand one of the most influential religious movements in American history. At times, I feel like his approach to them mirrors their approach to D&D: he tells us that they were guilty of most of what they accused others of, and I wonder if we might say the same about him. His insistence on describing them as “moral entrepreneurs” and their ideas “conspiracy theories” reinforces this sense of bias. Of course, he does not make these statements lightly, and much evidence is wielded to expose the contradictory and often quite amoral lives these people led, so this is not simply name-calling but rather a conclusion that was probably a bit weighted by the inherent biases of the author.
One other minor point is in regard to the copy-editing, which is excellent for the most part, but strangely lacking in the notes and bibliography. One almost gets the impression that a different person handed the end matter. The most glaring error in the notes is the consistent mis-naming of Rona Jaffe’s book “Mazes and Monsters” as “Monsters and Mazes.” This is a relatively minor point, not likely to lead any attentive researcher astray (it’s right in the bibliography, and in the text of the book), but far more maddening is the many sources which appear in the notes without being included in the bibliography. This means that on subsequent references to a source, one has to track backward through the notes in order to find the first complete entry when you want to know what he is referencing. This will make reproducing his research an exercise in frustration.
As I said above, however, these points should not stop anyone who is interested in the subject from reading this book. I was fascinated with it at every point, and I learned something about myself and my world in the process. Surely no higher praise can be given to any book.
December 8, 2023
https://beforewegoblog.com/review-dan...
"Never argue with an idiot. You'll never convince the idiot that you're correct, and bystanders won't be able to tell who's who." - Mark Twain
This is a deeply frustrating book for me because I wanted to like it but the problem is that it keeps running into the truism of the aforementioned quote undermines it at very turn. There's an apocryphal story passed around in my Kentucky game group from my DM to me that came from a convention he attended. Basically, it was the heady days of 2nd Edition and the developers at TSR were determined to remove anything controversial from their material: no demons, no devils, no brothels, no nudity in the books, and everything kept to a gloriously family-friendly PG. Then one of them, the story goes Ed Greenwood, commented, "Do you believe any of these bored housewives and fire and brimstone preachers actually read the books before condemning them?"
This book attempts to tell the story of the Satanic Panic and why so many evangelical Americans were terrified that Dungeons and Dragons endangered young souls. Well, the reason for that is that the people who are going after it are morons. They are looking for a target and make up whatever extreme claims that they need to in order to make it sound plausible. This is a problem for the book because their arguments are nonsense so the book spends an extensive amount of time deconstructing idiocy.
One of the most lucid points in the book that could have been an actual interesting chapter was the discussion of the creation of a Christian RPG named DragonRaid designed to indoctrinate youngsters in evangelism. DragonRaid was eviscerated by evangelists because, well, of course it was. It was an RPG and RPGs are evil. Why? Because RPGs are evil, so sayeth the Lord. Didn't you read that passage of the Bible? Nonsensium 12:28. If your argument is against someone who doesn't care about facts or logic, especially in matters of faith, then there's no point to arguing with them in the first place.
Speaking as someone sincerely religious who grew up in the Bible Belt, the scapegoating and silliness of this never gets less so. We address the infamous James Dallas Egbert III case and it is perfect for what could have been a harsher takedown of the hysteria here. Egbert was a suicidal teen with mental health issues and struggling with his homosexuality as well as his fundamentalistr parents. A publicity-hungry private detective and self-styled cult deprogrammer made up the insanity about him being trapped in the steam tunnels as well as driven mad by the evil game.
The best part of the book is definitely when they get away from engaging with the arguments and their nonsense then simply pointing out how utterly stupid they are. The fame-hungry sensationalism behind the Egbert case, poor Mrs. Pullman's utterly delusional attempt to make sense of her son's suicide by creating BADD (Bothered by Dungeons and Dragons), and evangelical groups trying to raise a stink for what seems like profit-based motives. The fact there was a man who ran on a campaign of getting D&D banned from schools is sadly too bizarre to be false. We also have the fact the hatred of D&D only died down because these same concerned citizens moved onto video games.
The book doesn't just stick with the Eighties Satanic Panic of Dungeons and Dragons but also deals with the Nineties rise of such counter-culture works as White Wolf gaming. Ironically, White Wolf gamers included many actual alternative religion pagans, gnostics, and "real" vampires. Yet, it got far less attention from the moral majority. Perhaps because they sensed that they simply wouldn't care. While there were some genuine "vampire murders" loosely connected to their exploitation of gaming, even these were not the subject of ire from the Religious Right? Why, I suspect because the actual facts were never important.
The book tries to get into the psychological power of roleplaying, Jungian psychology, the definition of religion, and more but trying to deconstruct arguments against RPGs is an exercise in futility because there's no argument. It's kind of an interesting book to read in our "Post Facts" world of 4chan conspiracy theories and Alternative Facts. The constant attempt to disprove what is bold faced lies and ranting stupidity to begin with. When discussing Deities and Demigods, the book comments on how much of the anger was over teaching about historical gods and real life history. As if the very act of education was offensive. The book's neutral tone becomes angering to anyone with a love of learning, mythology, or actual reasoned debate. Given I am an academic by trade as well as an author, its hard to maintain objectivity.
Yet, I can't disagree with the author or his research. He clearly went out of his way to attack the Satanic Panic's conclusions and methodically assembled evidence to show what utter nonsense their activities were. Some of the stories in the book are deeply frightening like how BADD (Bothered about Dungeons and Dragons) would send their lies and cooked statistics to hundreds of police stations in hopes of getting gamers monitored or arrested.
That was a real thing that happened and reflects the kind of panic-driven zealotry that the book is attacking. I just wish it was as angry about it as I was because the people who most need to read this are the ones who won't care and the people who are most likely to read the book already know a witch hunt won't find actual witches. Believe me, if Dungeons and Dragons granted supernatural powers, I would know it by now.
Another problem with this book is a more practical one in that this is being marketed as a text book and text books are ridiculously overpriced. The book is listed as a staggering twenty dollars for the eletronic version. This costs more than the paperback version of Game of Thrones. I'm inclined to think in terms of sheer cost analysis, you should pick up the Audible version for a credit instead.
"Never argue with an idiot. You'll never convince the idiot that you're correct, and bystanders won't be able to tell who's who." - Mark Twain
This is a deeply frustrating book for me because I wanted to like it but the problem is that it keeps running into the truism of the aforementioned quote undermines it at very turn. There's an apocryphal story passed around in my Kentucky game group from my DM to me that came from a convention he attended. Basically, it was the heady days of 2nd Edition and the developers at TSR were determined to remove anything controversial from their material: no demons, no devils, no brothels, no nudity in the books, and everything kept to a gloriously family-friendly PG. Then one of them, the story goes Ed Greenwood, commented, "Do you believe any of these bored housewives and fire and brimstone preachers actually read the books before condemning them?"
This book attempts to tell the story of the Satanic Panic and why so many evangelical Americans were terrified that Dungeons and Dragons endangered young souls. Well, the reason for that is that the people who are going after it are morons. They are looking for a target and make up whatever extreme claims that they need to in order to make it sound plausible. This is a problem for the book because their arguments are nonsense so the book spends an extensive amount of time deconstructing idiocy.
One of the most lucid points in the book that could have been an actual interesting chapter was the discussion of the creation of a Christian RPG named DragonRaid designed to indoctrinate youngsters in evangelism. DragonRaid was eviscerated by evangelists because, well, of course it was. It was an RPG and RPGs are evil. Why? Because RPGs are evil, so sayeth the Lord. Didn't you read that passage of the Bible? Nonsensium 12:28. If your argument is against someone who doesn't care about facts or logic, especially in matters of faith, then there's no point to arguing with them in the first place.
Speaking as someone sincerely religious who grew up in the Bible Belt, the scapegoating and silliness of this never gets less so. We address the infamous James Dallas Egbert III case and it is perfect for what could have been a harsher takedown of the hysteria here. Egbert was a suicidal teen with mental health issues and struggling with his homosexuality as well as his fundamentalistr parents. A publicity-hungry private detective and self-styled cult deprogrammer made up the insanity about him being trapped in the steam tunnels as well as driven mad by the evil game.
The best part of the book is definitely when they get away from engaging with the arguments and their nonsense then simply pointing out how utterly stupid they are. The fame-hungry sensationalism behind the Egbert case, poor Mrs. Pullman's utterly delusional attempt to make sense of her son's suicide by creating BADD (Bothered by Dungeons and Dragons), and evangelical groups trying to raise a stink for what seems like profit-based motives. The fact there was a man who ran on a campaign of getting D&D banned from schools is sadly too bizarre to be false. We also have the fact the hatred of D&D only died down because these same concerned citizens moved onto video games.
The book doesn't just stick with the Eighties Satanic Panic of Dungeons and Dragons but also deals with the Nineties rise of such counter-culture works as White Wolf gaming. Ironically, White Wolf gamers included many actual alternative religion pagans, gnostics, and "real" vampires. Yet, it got far less attention from the moral majority. Perhaps because they sensed that they simply wouldn't care. While there were some genuine "vampire murders" loosely connected to their exploitation of gaming, even these were not the subject of ire from the Religious Right? Why, I suspect because the actual facts were never important.
The book tries to get into the psychological power of roleplaying, Jungian psychology, the definition of religion, and more but trying to deconstruct arguments against RPGs is an exercise in futility because there's no argument. It's kind of an interesting book to read in our "Post Facts" world of 4chan conspiracy theories and Alternative Facts. The constant attempt to disprove what is bold faced lies and ranting stupidity to begin with. When discussing Deities and Demigods, the book comments on how much of the anger was over teaching about historical gods and real life history. As if the very act of education was offensive. The book's neutral tone becomes angering to anyone with a love of learning, mythology, or actual reasoned debate. Given I am an academic by trade as well as an author, its hard to maintain objectivity.
Yet, I can't disagree with the author or his research. He clearly went out of his way to attack the Satanic Panic's conclusions and methodically assembled evidence to show what utter nonsense their activities were. Some of the stories in the book are deeply frightening like how BADD (Bothered about Dungeons and Dragons) would send their lies and cooked statistics to hundreds of police stations in hopes of getting gamers monitored or arrested.
That was a real thing that happened and reflects the kind of panic-driven zealotry that the book is attacking. I just wish it was as angry about it as I was because the people who most need to read this are the ones who won't care and the people who are most likely to read the book already know a witch hunt won't find actual witches. Believe me, if Dungeons and Dragons granted supernatural powers, I would know it by now.
Another problem with this book is a more practical one in that this is being marketed as a text book and text books are ridiculously overpriced. The book is listed as a staggering twenty dollars for the eletronic version. This costs more than the paperback version of Game of Thrones. I'm inclined to think in terms of sheer cost analysis, you should pick up the Audible version for a credit instead.
June 5, 2023
“Bothered About D&D”/BADD is such a funny acronym I never fully got over that.
February 21, 2021
A dense read with occasional nuggets of wisdom.
If my review sounds very conflicted, then I suppose it's because I am. There are plenty of things in this book that feel top notch, while others feel like hasty and poorly researched conclusions. The book itself wanders from a down-to-earth retelling of the Satanic Panic, to an esoteric foray into social constructs and role-playing. The end result is one book that feels like too many. I will try to address each part separately.
The book's initial substance talks of the genesis of role-playing games. Even for those aware of its origins, Laycock does a great job out some of the smaller details, and tying each creator's background to its influence on the game. One thing that concerns me on a personal level (and maybe others will forgive this) is the almost complete glossing over of Gygax and Co.'s less-celebrated opinions, such as DnD being an incredibly exclusionary space at its onset. Laycock unreservedly extols Gygax as a person of literal faith and vision, with little regard to his shortcomings as a person. And while maybe that shouldn't be important, Laycock's entire story revolves around the battle against a dogmatic, Christian sect that is unwilling to engage in self-reflection. It feels especially hypocritical to avoid that self-reflection here. Aside from that small gripe, Laycock has clearly done his research, and retells many of the specific events of the 80's with skill.
The book transitions to the more academic portion with some success. In some sections, the author does a good job explaining his points to the reader. In others, I found it frustrating that Laycock was unwilling to drop the lingo—even just to explain briefly in parentheticals—and left me to introduce myself to his field of scholarly buzzwords. At its best, I chalked this up to academic writing in general. It's not a genre that attempts to coddle the reader, or make sense to anyone unsteeped in the material. But at its worst, it feels like Laycock hides his point with fancy language, and takes advantage of the lack of scholarship to say "this is how it is—trust me." Numerous conclusory statements pepper each section, without citations to match. In particular, Laycock makes claims on behalf of the fundamentalist Christians while failing to point to a source. Laycock chides the right-wing organizations that make unsubstantiated claims on behalf of DnD (as he should), so why he feels the need to stoop to their level is beyond me. Either find a source, or point to many of the other very terrible and outrageous claims these people made.
At times, I think even Laycock is unsure what he wants his book to say. He blasts views that role-playing games shouldn't be viewed as religion, and then proceeds to draw the parallels himself. He says we understand these games are formed and stay in liminal spaces, and then asks that we acknowledge that they shape reality. I'm willing to accept some misunderstanding on my part, but only to an extent. My best armchair guess is simply that this is an under-researched field, and that working theories of social frameworks surrounding role-playing games have yet to be fully developed. As a result, much of what the author asserts as rule is more akin to untested theory.
I feel like I could keep going on, but it would meander even more than I already have (and almost as much as the book). So instead, I'll leave you with a solid metric: your best bet to liking this book is being a forgiving liberal-arts graduate student, with a particular interest in role-playing games (you get bonus points—as well as my condolences—for having lived through the Satanic Panic).
I (warily) await future scholarship on the topic, particularly from Professor Laycock.
If my review sounds very conflicted, then I suppose it's because I am. There are plenty of things in this book that feel top notch, while others feel like hasty and poorly researched conclusions. The book itself wanders from a down-to-earth retelling of the Satanic Panic, to an esoteric foray into social constructs and role-playing. The end result is one book that feels like too many. I will try to address each part separately.
The book's initial substance talks of the genesis of role-playing games. Even for those aware of its origins, Laycock does a great job out some of the smaller details, and tying each creator's background to its influence on the game. One thing that concerns me on a personal level (and maybe others will forgive this) is the almost complete glossing over of Gygax and Co.'s less-celebrated opinions, such as DnD being an incredibly exclusionary space at its onset. Laycock unreservedly extols Gygax as a person of literal faith and vision, with little regard to his shortcomings as a person. And while maybe that shouldn't be important, Laycock's entire story revolves around the battle against a dogmatic, Christian sect that is unwilling to engage in self-reflection. It feels especially hypocritical to avoid that self-reflection here. Aside from that small gripe, Laycock has clearly done his research, and retells many of the specific events of the 80's with skill.
The book transitions to the more academic portion with some success. In some sections, the author does a good job explaining his points to the reader. In others, I found it frustrating that Laycock was unwilling to drop the lingo—even just to explain briefly in parentheticals—and left me to introduce myself to his field of scholarly buzzwords. At its best, I chalked this up to academic writing in general. It's not a genre that attempts to coddle the reader, or make sense to anyone unsteeped in the material. But at its worst, it feels like Laycock hides his point with fancy language, and takes advantage of the lack of scholarship to say "this is how it is—trust me." Numerous conclusory statements pepper each section, without citations to match. In particular, Laycock makes claims on behalf of the fundamentalist Christians while failing to point to a source. Laycock chides the right-wing organizations that make unsubstantiated claims on behalf of DnD (as he should), so why he feels the need to stoop to their level is beyond me. Either find a source, or point to many of the other very terrible and outrageous claims these people made.
At times, I think even Laycock is unsure what he wants his book to say. He blasts views that role-playing games shouldn't be viewed as religion, and then proceeds to draw the parallels himself. He says we understand these games are formed and stay in liminal spaces, and then asks that we acknowledge that they shape reality. I'm willing to accept some misunderstanding on my part, but only to an extent. My best armchair guess is simply that this is an under-researched field, and that working theories of social frameworks surrounding role-playing games have yet to be fully developed. As a result, much of what the author asserts as rule is more akin to untested theory.
I feel like I could keep going on, but it would meander even more than I already have (and almost as much as the book). So instead, I'll leave you with a solid metric: your best bet to liking this book is being a forgiving liberal-arts graduate student, with a particular interest in role-playing games (you get bonus points—as well as my condolences—for having lived through the Satanic Panic).
I (warily) await future scholarship on the topic, particularly from Professor Laycock.
December 19, 2018
I interlibrary loaned this title and I had to return it before much progress was made. The start was interesting. Maybe I will finish it when I have more free time.
March 18, 2025
Fantastic Book. One of the best and most well researched books I've read in ages.
April 19, 2016
A dense yet readable academic text on religion, sociology, and role playing games! I can't imagine there is a huge audience for a book like this, but the author hit many of my 'Like' buttons with his history of Dungeons&Dragons, his narrative account of the 'Satanic panic' of the 80s, and his analysis of the religious aspects of fantasy role playing games, as well as his analysis of why fundamentalist Christians found them to be so threatening.
A brief autobiographical anecdote: in the mid-1980s, my parents and I were watching the old ABC News show "20/20." I was still in high school at the time, and the reporter--Geraldo Rivera--was doing a report on teenagers and Satanism. He listed some of the signs: an interest in the occult, an enjoyment of heavy metal music, and participation in fantasy role playing games like Dungeons&Dragons. During the commercial break both of my parents stared at me in stony silence, since I had every single symptom!
I did not worship the devil, but I was an avid RPG player, a hobby that began for me in 1980 and continues to this day (albeit in a greatly reduced form since this whole 'adult' thing keeps interfering). I remember the fear and bullshit spouted about Dungeons&Dragons back in those days, and as I read this book and remembered those times, I realized that my hostility toward fundamentalist Christians had its genesis during that period. They were, literally, lying about my friends and I, and it pissed me off. It still does.
So I enjoyed this book very much. I learned fancy new words (paracosm, bricolage) and I was pleased to learn about some of the more academic ideas related to child's play, imaginative fantasy, and religion. "I have seen incredible things in fearful worlds," Lord Dunsany once wrote, and he was correct. The power of the collaborative narrative created during a D&D game remains one of my favorite ways to use my imagination, all these years later. Role-playing games are an opportunity for exercising both creativity and harmless, yet powerful, fantasies about imagined worlds of adventure and heroism.
One final thought: if what Joseph Campbell (among others) theorized is true--that mankind needs myths to remain psychologically healthy--it is things like Star Wars, or Marvel movies, or The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit, or games like the World of Warcraft--that are fulfilling the role once played by organized religion. Role playing games, for all their fun, are a tiny, tiny hobby compared to, say, the number of people who read Harry Potter and experience a form of transcendence. The philosopher Rudolph Otto wrote about what he called 'the numinous': the fascinating, tremendous mystery at the heart of religion. I wonder if the imaginings of our postmodern era--the wizards and aliens and superheroes that take up so much room in our collective imaginations--serve a numinous function for an increasingly faithless civilization? If religion is itself a form paracosm (that is, a highly detailed and engrossing fantasy world)...is it any surprise that so many people in this day and age classify their religion as "Jedi"?
We live in interesting times.
A brief autobiographical anecdote: in the mid-1980s, my parents and I were watching the old ABC News show "20/20." I was still in high school at the time, and the reporter--Geraldo Rivera--was doing a report on teenagers and Satanism. He listed some of the signs: an interest in the occult, an enjoyment of heavy metal music, and participation in fantasy role playing games like Dungeons&Dragons. During the commercial break both of my parents stared at me in stony silence, since I had every single symptom!
I did not worship the devil, but I was an avid RPG player, a hobby that began for me in 1980 and continues to this day (albeit in a greatly reduced form since this whole 'adult' thing keeps interfering). I remember the fear and bullshit spouted about Dungeons&Dragons back in those days, and as I read this book and remembered those times, I realized that my hostility toward fundamentalist Christians had its genesis during that period. They were, literally, lying about my friends and I, and it pissed me off. It still does.
So I enjoyed this book very much. I learned fancy new words (paracosm, bricolage) and I was pleased to learn about some of the more academic ideas related to child's play, imaginative fantasy, and religion. "I have seen incredible things in fearful worlds," Lord Dunsany once wrote, and he was correct. The power of the collaborative narrative created during a D&D game remains one of my favorite ways to use my imagination, all these years later. Role-playing games are an opportunity for exercising both creativity and harmless, yet powerful, fantasies about imagined worlds of adventure and heroism.
One final thought: if what Joseph Campbell (among others) theorized is true--that mankind needs myths to remain psychologically healthy--it is things like Star Wars, or Marvel movies, or The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit, or games like the World of Warcraft--that are fulfilling the role once played by organized religion. Role playing games, for all their fun, are a tiny, tiny hobby compared to, say, the number of people who read Harry Potter and experience a form of transcendence. The philosopher Rudolph Otto wrote about what he called 'the numinous': the fascinating, tremendous mystery at the heart of religion. I wonder if the imaginings of our postmodern era--the wizards and aliens and superheroes that take up so much room in our collective imaginations--serve a numinous function for an increasingly faithless civilization? If religion is itself a form paracosm (that is, a highly detailed and engrossing fantasy world)...is it any surprise that so many people in this day and age classify their religion as "Jedi"?
We live in interesting times.
August 29, 2018
I will give this book 5 stars because it was really well-written, but mostly because it combines two of my biggest passions: social science and rpgs.
The research question is simple yet challenging: how can we interpret the moral panic over role playing games? The book is framed in sociology of religion using a wide variety of theoretical and methodological tools. It is easy to read even for a person who has not taken a single class of epistemology or social theory, which is one of its biggest assets; renders the text as clear and fluid.
There are, as with any research, some pending questions. One is the way Laycock reaches some conclusions, such as, how subjects learn through participation in rpg a new identity or how they create communities of practice. Another one is how the moral panic had an effect on the narrative building of rpgs. However, it is an excellent book to understand how stories can be threatening and scary to some people, because although they understand the powers of imagination and at the same time want a piece of it from themselves, they shield in the fear of occultism or they use conspiracy theories to stop questioning their own foundational mythologies.
Laycock uses smartly the notion that reality is a social construction and that are multiple worlds existing at the same time. He argues (with authors) that religion is one of those worlds and it creates an hegemony constantly worried that something starts to question the very nature of it. He concludes that fear of rpgs is in the end, feart of imagination, fear of possibility and of unmasking the veil of our reality. Disenchantment with the world brings feelings of sadness, frustration and anger (among others); creating new worlds, even fantastic ones, is a way to cope with it, but so is accusing someone of betraying the stability of our normal and regular lives.
Finally, it is important to note that this book explores that imagination is a faculty that can be used to improve and connect better with others or to become ensared and entangled in dangerous practices. Fear of imagination only constrains the world and does not solve the ever growing problems of it.
The research question is simple yet challenging: how can we interpret the moral panic over role playing games? The book is framed in sociology of religion using a wide variety of theoretical and methodological tools. It is easy to read even for a person who has not taken a single class of epistemology or social theory, which is one of its biggest assets; renders the text as clear and fluid.
There are, as with any research, some pending questions. One is the way Laycock reaches some conclusions, such as, how subjects learn through participation in rpg a new identity or how they create communities of practice. Another one is how the moral panic had an effect on the narrative building of rpgs. However, it is an excellent book to understand how stories can be threatening and scary to some people, because although they understand the powers of imagination and at the same time want a piece of it from themselves, they shield in the fear of occultism or they use conspiracy theories to stop questioning their own foundational mythologies.
Laycock uses smartly the notion that reality is a social construction and that are multiple worlds existing at the same time. He argues (with authors) that religion is one of those worlds and it creates an hegemony constantly worried that something starts to question the very nature of it. He concludes that fear of rpgs is in the end, feart of imagination, fear of possibility and of unmasking the veil of our reality. Disenchantment with the world brings feelings of sadness, frustration and anger (among others); creating new worlds, even fantastic ones, is a way to cope with it, but so is accusing someone of betraying the stability of our normal and regular lives.
Finally, it is important to note that this book explores that imagination is a faculty that can be used to improve and connect better with others or to become ensared and entangled in dangerous practices. Fear of imagination only constrains the world and does not solve the ever growing problems of it.
September 23, 2017
I was first alerted to this book through an episode of Geek's Guide to the Galaxy, and from that discussion I knew this book would be a fairly detailed look at the history of the moral panic and outrage directed at Dungeons & Dragons in the late 20th century. In that regard, I was not disappointed - Laycock lays out an exhaustive history of the panic, to the point where his investigation stretches back well before the creation of D&D in some aspects, and follows the panic all the way do its dwindling, quiet conclusion at the turn of the millennium.
What I wasn't expecting was the detailed and thoroughly academic look at the intersections of religion, fantasy, play, and human meaning. While the author's focus remains mostly fixed on tabletop fantasy role-playing games, his unpacking of the fraught relationship between religious and cultural hegemony on the one hand and fantasy and imagination on the other is rooted in an articulation of the nature and purpose of fantasy itself as a genre. Some of the lessons and insights here could be expanded to understand other cultural flashpoints, and through clear discussion and reinforcement Laycock makes his perspective on these issues clearly understandable and appreciable.
There were a few instances here and there were I found myself wondering if he wasn't opening himself up to attack by purveyors of moral outrage with particularly unexpected or subtle logical transitions that weren't as well-explained as they could have been, or where I think some of his core concepts, such as "corrupted play", could have used more clarification or exploration than they got. But as a starting point for thinking more carefully about moral panics around games and general antagonism to fantasy and imagination, I think Dangerous Games is a great book well worth reading.
What I wasn't expecting was the detailed and thoroughly academic look at the intersections of religion, fantasy, play, and human meaning. While the author's focus remains mostly fixed on tabletop fantasy role-playing games, his unpacking of the fraught relationship between religious and cultural hegemony on the one hand and fantasy and imagination on the other is rooted in an articulation of the nature and purpose of fantasy itself as a genre. Some of the lessons and insights here could be expanded to understand other cultural flashpoints, and through clear discussion and reinforcement Laycock makes his perspective on these issues clearly understandable and appreciable.
There were a few instances here and there were I found myself wondering if he wasn't opening himself up to attack by purveyors of moral outrage with particularly unexpected or subtle logical transitions that weren't as well-explained as they could have been, or where I think some of his core concepts, such as "corrupted play", could have used more clarification or exploration than they got. But as a starting point for thinking more carefully about moral panics around games and general antagonism to fantasy and imagination, I think Dangerous Games is a great book well worth reading.
May 8, 2024
"for Generation X, dark, atmosphere-heavy role-playing games were not just an escape into a fantasy world: they were a medium through which players and storytellers could explore their doubts and frustrations by creating stories that articulated the world's flaws by casting them into relief"
"(...) humans are able to imagine the world and their lives in an infinite number of ways. The price of this freedom is the threat of chaos -that infinite possibilities present us with a world that is infinitely meaningless. And so humans must engage in "world-building", a collective process through which a society comes to understand the world in a particular way. Science, religion, and other models of reality that helps us to interprest our world can be understood as both the tools for and the products of world-building. From this perspective, the manner in which imaginary worlds are collectively constructed in the context of fantasy role-playing games is similar to the process through which all human meaning is created"
"It is through pointing to other realities, through beyonding, that religion and poetry, and science too in its own way, break the dreadful fatalities of this world of appearances." - Robert Bellah
"(...) If role-playing games utilize the same process that human beings have always used to order the world and construct meaning, then the appeal of these games may be hardwired. Playing them is pleasurable because the ability to create worlds is our birthright as human beings"
"Far from encouraging delusion, the imagination allows us to analyze models of reality and enhances our powers of discernment (...). It is possible that the more we intentionally engage in fantasy the less likely we are to engage in it unintentionally. By using the imagination deliberately, we learn to master frames of metacommunication instead of allowing them to master us"
"(...) humans are able to imagine the world and their lives in an infinite number of ways. The price of this freedom is the threat of chaos -that infinite possibilities present us with a world that is infinitely meaningless. And so humans must engage in "world-building", a collective process through which a society comes to understand the world in a particular way. Science, religion, and other models of reality that helps us to interprest our world can be understood as both the tools for and the products of world-building. From this perspective, the manner in which imaginary worlds are collectively constructed in the context of fantasy role-playing games is similar to the process through which all human meaning is created"
"It is through pointing to other realities, through beyonding, that religion and poetry, and science too in its own way, break the dreadful fatalities of this world of appearances." - Robert Bellah
"(...) If role-playing games utilize the same process that human beings have always used to order the world and construct meaning, then the appeal of these games may be hardwired. Playing them is pleasurable because the ability to create worlds is our birthright as human beings"
"Far from encouraging delusion, the imagination allows us to analyze models of reality and enhances our powers of discernment (...). It is possible that the more we intentionally engage in fantasy the less likely we are to engage in it unintentionally. By using the imagination deliberately, we learn to master frames of metacommunication instead of allowing them to master us"
May 31, 2025
Wow wow wow! Academic and dense, yet still highly readable, this is about more than just the satanic panic of the 80s. This book delves into the history of fantasy and story as a method of human engagement with and creation of reality, the history of D&D, what it developed from, the historical context of when and by whom it was created, and why the satanic panic was bound to happen. Gentle and understanding, Laycock delves into why fantasy and imagination have historically been so dangerous and threatening to hegemonic structures, especially Christianity, and how the 'moral entrepreneurs' who fought so vehemently against the game and its players were themselves participating in the structures of fantasy and different framings of reality that they were so morally opposed to. Of course, if you enjoy D&D this will be a fun read for you, but if you're interested in the history of games, the sociological and theological contexts around games of imagination and fantasy, and the academic exploration of the human methods of creating and understanding reality, this book will hit home for you. 5 star content, 4 stars for me because it is dry and I kept accidentally falling asleep when I tried to read it in bed.
May 28, 2021
I had this as a PDF from the university library which made reading a bit awkward, but worth it. A useful combination of detailed historical work (on D&D, related games, Christian campaigners, Otherkin, and crimes and tragedies which got caught up in the discussion) and theoretical work which includes exploration of the multiple frames involved and the complex states of truthfulness, fantasy, and things inbetween which exist throughout the moral panic.
February 9, 2024
This was an interesting and thorough exploration of the “satanic panic” that surrounded D&D and other ttRPGs in the 80s and early 90s. It examines the media and law enforcement role in perpetuating the claims. Also taking a look at the psychology of play and how it has many benefits including actually helping people be more resistant to believing propaganda.
It did seem a bit repetitive at times which is what knocked it down a star.
It did seem a bit repetitive at times which is what knocked it down a star.
September 16, 2025
This took ages to read - it's extremely dense and scholarly, and reads like an academic thesis. It's also chock-full of research on every stage of the development of tabletop RPGs. If you want to learn more, this is a great resource. If you want something more salacious, try one of the DnD tell-alls!
Read this for a "Book about a moral panic" challenge.
Read this for a "Book about a moral panic" challenge.
June 16, 2017
Pretty dense. Felt like a sociology textbook. Decently repetitive in various parts. However, an interesting history and take on imagination, role-playing games, and religion.
February 18, 2019
This is a definitive book on the Satanic panic about Roleplaying games. I really enjoyed it even though it has dry sections.
October 3, 2019
Though a bit jargon heavy in some places, Dangerous Games is a compelling and accessible work that pierces the absurdity of moral panics with clear insight.
June 23, 2022
In terms of intersections of my interests, I feel like this book was written for me. Great analysis of not just the history of the moral panic over RPGs but the role of imaginative play in our lives.
September 26, 2022
* full review forthcoming *
May 31, 2016
First off, this book was truly fascinating. Dangerous Games: What the Moral Panic Over Role-Playing Games Says About Play, Religion, and Imagined Worlds by religious studies professor Joseph P. Laycock looks like a graduate thesis, but it's still eminently readable, and offers vital insights into the nature of religion, spiritual belief, the nature of play and games, and the creation of meaning.
Some people younger than myself may not remember, but when I was growing up there was very real concern by some people that fantasy role-playing games in general and Dungeons & Dragons in particular were direct conduits to the occult and devil worship. Even my own Orthodox Jewish day school, progressive as it was in some ways, disallowed D&D in the late 1980s and early 1990s for just these reasons, at least to my recollection. Obviously, these fears were wholly unfounded, but the effects lingered for many, many years thereafter, and even still linger to this day. Laycock explores every aspect of this moral panic, from its history to its causes, and he does so out of love both for religion and for RPGs.
In Laycock's analysis, I learned several things of which I was previously unaware, including that D&D's system of alignment is so strong—much stronger, in fact, than most, if not all, other fantasy RPGs—in no small part because creators Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson were both deeply devout evangelical Christians. Laycock's thesis is likewise quite interesting: "Moral entrepreneurs", as Laycock calls them, had such concern about RPGs for twofold reasons. First, they often wished to impose hegemony on their followers by controlling thought and imagination, and second, they feared that if fantasy RPGs' imagined worlds could be so thought-out and provide so much meaning to their adherents, so too could their religious beliefs be analyzed the same way—as worlds purely imaginary. Where Laycock is so innovative, is that he argues that the meaning provided by RPGs as well as religion are both valuable and worth embracing. Perhaps most salient is Laycock's discussion on pages 274-77 of the concept of the blood libel against the Jews and how it recasts the very real victims of oppression in Europe and elsewhere as aggressors against the Christian majority; likewise, Laycock cites Michael Ende's The Neverending Story as a response of a German author, the son of an artist labeled as "degenerate" by the Nazis, to such a label, and the nature of imagination, lies, and their relationship with hegemony. Of course, I'm greatly simplifying Dangerous Games, but part of what makes the book so interesting is the journey Laycock takes to get to his ultimate conclusions.
Dangerous Games, aside from being a valuable tool in understanding the specifics of the moral panic around D&D and other fantasy RPGs, is a valuable tool in understanding religion in general, as well as moral panics and hegemony in general—hence Laycock's discussions of Nazism and the antisemitic blood libel. One of the best books I've read, not just on this subject, but in general.
Some people younger than myself may not remember, but when I was growing up there was very real concern by some people that fantasy role-playing games in general and Dungeons & Dragons in particular were direct conduits to the occult and devil worship. Even my own Orthodox Jewish day school, progressive as it was in some ways, disallowed D&D in the late 1980s and early 1990s for just these reasons, at least to my recollection. Obviously, these fears were wholly unfounded, but the effects lingered for many, many years thereafter, and even still linger to this day. Laycock explores every aspect of this moral panic, from its history to its causes, and he does so out of love both for religion and for RPGs.
In Laycock's analysis, I learned several things of which I was previously unaware, including that D&D's system of alignment is so strong—much stronger, in fact, than most, if not all, other fantasy RPGs—in no small part because creators Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson were both deeply devout evangelical Christians. Laycock's thesis is likewise quite interesting: "Moral entrepreneurs", as Laycock calls them, had such concern about RPGs for twofold reasons. First, they often wished to impose hegemony on their followers by controlling thought and imagination, and second, they feared that if fantasy RPGs' imagined worlds could be so thought-out and provide so much meaning to their adherents, so too could their religious beliefs be analyzed the same way—as worlds purely imaginary. Where Laycock is so innovative, is that he argues that the meaning provided by RPGs as well as religion are both valuable and worth embracing. Perhaps most salient is Laycock's discussion on pages 274-77 of the concept of the blood libel against the Jews and how it recasts the very real victims of oppression in Europe and elsewhere as aggressors against the Christian majority; likewise, Laycock cites Michael Ende's The Neverending Story as a response of a German author, the son of an artist labeled as "degenerate" by the Nazis, to such a label, and the nature of imagination, lies, and their relationship with hegemony. Of course, I'm greatly simplifying Dangerous Games, but part of what makes the book so interesting is the journey Laycock takes to get to his ultimate conclusions.
Dangerous Games, aside from being a valuable tool in understanding the specifics of the moral panic around D&D and other fantasy RPGs, is a valuable tool in understanding religion in general, as well as moral panics and hegemony in general—hence Laycock's discussions of Nazism and the antisemitic blood libel. One of the best books I've read, not just on this subject, but in general.
August 31, 2024
Devilishly Smart, Dicey Subjects
: I've read a few academic books, and Joseph Laycock follows the format but makes the scholarly style smooth and accessible. You may have heard about the Satanic Panic and tabletop roleplaying games, and the suspicion of mature make-believe games usually played with math rocks beyond the 1980s. Laycock lays out the academic reasons why the righteous Right feared roleplaying games beyond their alleged connection to sorcery and Satanism. What I learned from the book helped me see fundamentalist outrage against art and entertainment in a whole new shocking light. If you are looking for an analysis of the cultures mentioned above, take the initiative and roll the dice on this book. If you want a light primer on the subject, you might switch classes to an introductory work before taking a seat a Laycock's table.
May 23, 2025
Book Riot Read Harder Challenge 2025 #21:Read a book about a moral panic.
February 5, 2023
I'm never quite sure how to review nonfiction. The subject matter was interesting, and seemed accurate at least from the role-playing games side of things (I'm not familiar enough with fundamentalist Christianity to speak to that side of things, nor am I familiar with many of the scholars he quotes), but the book was a bit repetitive and I can't help feeling like it could've been edited down. Or maybe scholarly tomes are supposed to be repetitive. It was still an interesting read.
(Then again, of course, I'm a gamer who grew up during the panic over role-playing games and naturally want to try to understand why people were so freaked out over something that strikes me as very ordinary. I'd always chalked it up to the usual panic over whatever's new (fiction, radio, movies, television, video games, etc, etc.), and Laycock does touch on that, but he makes a reasonably compelling argument for it being more than simply that. (And that, perhaps, those other panics were about more than just "Something new! Everyone panic!")
(Then again, of course, I'm a gamer who grew up during the panic over role-playing games and naturally want to try to understand why people were so freaked out over something that strikes me as very ordinary. I'd always chalked it up to the usual panic over whatever's new (fiction, radio, movies, television, video games, etc, etc.), and Laycock does touch on that, but he makes a reasonably compelling argument for it being more than simply that. (And that, perhaps, those other panics were about more than just "Something new! Everyone panic!")
July 6, 2025
fantastic book about fantasy, imagination, and hegemony !!!!!! Well written and so interesting. I wish there had been more of an emphasis on the racial dynamics of so-called “superpredators” versus the people who did commit violent crimes & claimed the D&D defense….. but that’s a very small critique
August 22, 2015
Listen to my interview with the author at: http://marginalia.lareviewofbooks.org...
September 17, 2023
Listened to audiobook. Relevant to what is going on politically right now.
Want to read
December 14, 2018NOT A REVIEW BUT NOTES FOR A REVIEW AFTER THE BOOK IS READ (IN A YEAR OR TWO)
Aladore - Sir Henry Newbolt Chapter 48. (c) 1914
Then the Archbishop spoke to Ywain, and his eyes glowed like coals, and voice was rich and sweet like strong wine softenedd with honey, and he said: These are my friends and yours, and they would be friends to Hubert also, for there s no malice in them, but good will and free forgiveness. But Hubert would not, to my grief I say it: for he was taken with an ill mind and brought disease upon many. And his disease was this, that he became a dreamer of dreams, and would have others to be like himself: and thereby they were in danger to have perished.
Then said Ywain: My lord, I pray you pardon me: of what dreams do men perish? And the Archbishop answered him patiently and said: Surely of all such dreams as are not according to faith. Then said Ywain: I rejoice to hear my lord's saying, for Hubert is of all men full of faith, as one that would give the world for a dream. And even as he does, so do I and mine: for we long after our own land, and go pilgrimage to find it. And, in that it is a land of dream it is a land of faith: for by our dreams we make life new and ever during, and what else do all the men of faith?
And when he said that the Archbishop was some deal choked in his throat, and the red came to his face about his eyes. And he said to Ywain: What mean you, sir, for I fear lest I should understand your saying. And Ywain answered: Let me use plain words with reverence: for we are both of us men and the sons of men, and to each man his own magic. And we all seek for the land of our desire, and we build therein a city and a house for our abiding. And you call your city Paradise, and ours we call Aladore, for of our own dreams it is builded and upheld.
Then the Archbishop rose up upon his feet, and he looked on Ywain with a stern countenance, and said: It is enough. And he went out in his wrath, and the great ones followed after him.
Aladore - Sir Henry Newbolt Chapter 48. (c) 1914
Then the Archbishop spoke to Ywain, and his eyes glowed like coals, and voice was rich and sweet like strong wine softenedd with honey, and he said: These are my friends and yours, and they would be friends to Hubert also, for there s no malice in them, but good will and free forgiveness. But Hubert would not, to my grief I say it: for he was taken with an ill mind and brought disease upon many. And his disease was this, that he became a dreamer of dreams, and would have others to be like himself: and thereby they were in danger to have perished.
Then said Ywain: My lord, I pray you pardon me: of what dreams do men perish? And the Archbishop answered him patiently and said: Surely of all such dreams as are not according to faith. Then said Ywain: I rejoice to hear my lord's saying, for Hubert is of all men full of faith, as one that would give the world for a dream. And even as he does, so do I and mine: for we long after our own land, and go pilgrimage to find it. And, in that it is a land of dream it is a land of faith: for by our dreams we make life new and ever during, and what else do all the men of faith?
And when he said that the Archbishop was some deal choked in his throat, and the red came to his face about his eyes. And he said to Ywain: What mean you, sir, for I fear lest I should understand your saying. And Ywain answered: Let me use plain words with reverence: for we are both of us men and the sons of men, and to each man his own magic. And we all seek for the land of our desire, and we build therein a city and a house for our abiding. And you call your city Paradise, and ours we call Aladore, for of our own dreams it is builded and upheld.
Then the Archbishop rose up upon his feet, and he looked on Ywain with a stern countenance, and said: It is enough. And he went out in his wrath, and the great ones followed after him.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
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