The Red and the Green

by Iris Murdoch

Introduction by Declan Kiberd

The scene is Dublin in 1916. As rebellion looms, tension mounts in the sombre, rain-soaked Dublin streets. A single Anglo-Irish family provides the diverse characters: Pat Dumay, a Catholic and an Irish patriot; his pious mother pursuing her private war with his step-father; Pat’s English-Protestant cousin Andrew Chase-White, an officer in King Edward’s Horse and Frances, the girl he loves. Weaving between them all moves Millie Kinnard – fast, feminist, and only just respectable.

Genres: Fiction, Historical Fiction, Ireland, Classics, Literary Fiction, British Literature, 20th Century

285 pages, Hardcover

First published January 1, 1965

About the author

Dame Jean Iris Murdoch

Irish-born British writer, university lecturer and prolific and highly professional novelist, Iris Murdoch dealt with everyday ethical or moral issues, sometimes in the light of myths. As a writer, she was a perfectionist who did not allow editors to change her text. Murdoch produced 26 novels in 40 years, the last written while she was suffering from Alzheimer disease.

"She wanted, through her novels, to reach all possible readers, in different ways and by different means: by the excitement of her story, its pace and its comedy, through its ideas and its philosophical implications, through the numinous atmosphere of her own original and created world--the world she must have glimpsed as she considered and planned her first steps in the art of fiction." (John Bayley in Elegy for Iris, 1998)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_Mur...

Reviews

[Marica · Rating 4 out of 5]

Rosso come la passione, verde come l’Irlanda
Questo libro inizia come un Jane Austin e presto diventa un Beppe Fenoglio: trasformazione inattesa e ardita, ma Iris Murdoch può quasi tutto. È un’autrice molto fuori dal comune; insegnò filosofia a Oxford, ma nei suoi romanzi non offre dottrina quanto sottile umorismo, conoscenza e benevolenza verso l’essere umano, senso della commedia più che della tragedia, perché siamo un granello di polvere nell’infinito e duriamo un istante. Leggere i suoi libri fa bene.
In questo caso racconta quello che precedette la domenica di Pasqua 1916 a Dublino, giorno mai dimenticato da quelle parti, attraverso i componenti di una famiglia allargata. La lettura è anche molto interessante dal punto di vista storico, perché dà un quadro degli umori irlandesi che circolavano al momento e dei rapporti familiari, in modo per niente laccato. Eccellente caratterizzazione dei personaggi.
I caratteri principali sono quelli di una donna fuori dagli schemi, ardente e irresponsabile, attorno alla quale ruotano tutti gli altri e del nipote, di poche parole e molte idee.
Iris racconta benissimo l’insofferenza e il desiderio di azione della giovinezza, l’amore fraterno così grande e protettivo da diventare egoismo.
È assurdo che in Italia arrivi una montagna di spazzatura cartacea e Iris Murdoch bisogni recuperarla in modo ingegnoso, considerata la qualità, la piacevolezza e anche la facilità di lettura.

[David · Rating 4 out of 5]

Easter 1916 as a comic opera with an occasional death. How does Iris get away with it? At one point she had all of the characters turning to each other and saying "This is ridiculous." But it's such good fun and the people in Murdoch's universe are so witty, pretty and/or rich, that I just can't get enough. Pat was an additional treat here, firmly from Mishima Country.

"'I think being a woman is like being Irish,' said Frances, … 'Everyone says you're important and nice, but you take second place all the same.'"

"Barney shambled on the outskirts of the family caravan, an irredeemable figure of fun."

"In the black tight trousers she looked like a principal boy in an operetta, vivacious, vulgar and about to become extremely noisy."

"'I'm so sorry. I've broken that vase. I was looking for the matches.'
'It doesn't matter. It's only Ming or something.'"

"'a woman caught in my situation has to adopt some tone, and it's not easy to combine devastating frankness with calm dignity.'"

"Christopher hated muddle, hated the plunging to and fro in confusion of half-guilty half-frantic human beings caught up together like carriage horses in an accident."

[Judy · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is Iris Murdoch's 9th novel as well as her first and only historical novel. (I am reading her books in order of publication.)

The story is set in Ireland, the country of her birth. The scene is Dublin, 1916, and covers the week leading up to the Easter Rising, a doomed attempt to fight against the English.

The extended Irish family who people the story are a mix of native Irish and Anglo/Irish, of Catholic and Protestant. The many intricate social and political strands of Ireland in the early 20th century gave me even more insight into a country that fascinates me but also refuses to let me truly understand it.

As always with Murdoch, her characters are conflicted, there are love stories, and she is investigating the question of freedom. I never did quite determine the significance of the title. Who or what are the red and who or what are the green? Can anyone help me on that?

[Jean-Luke · Rating 4 out of 5]

Iris Murdoch's only historical novel. Get out the family tree, and then the history book. Set in Dublin in the days leading up to the Easter Rising in 1916, much of it concerns the social and political fate/state of Ireland (duh). WWI is underway, and Ireland is still under the yoke of the English. Some say that Home Rule for Ireland is assured, and others aren't waiting to find out.

"We Anglo-Irish families are so complex," says one of the characters, and complex is an understatement. Half the characters are married to or in love with relatives or in-laws. There's an absolutely ridiculous revolver-wielding aunt who both indulges in and inspires incestuous longings. Which is par for the course for Murdoch, except Millie's actions are so extreme and lacking in any real motivation—nothing beyond an unsubstantiated hint—that she quickly becomes a soap opera tramp. She doesn't get a point of view (almost none of the female characters do) which, given her dark revelation to Andrew, might have added some psychological depth. Her actions would have been hard to swallow in 1965, when the book was published, not to mention in an era when women could hardly dare show their ankles. And then there's the Night of Spectacular Coincidence...all of which makes it sound as if I didn't enjoy the book—I did. Loved it, actually. Especially the ending and especially the epilogue.

I loved the strange relationship between brothers Pat and Cathal. It is very much like the relationship between Will and Nigel in Bruno's Dream. Uncle Barney was just pathetic, hopefully Murdoch's intention. Several mentions of the Boer War, which is always a welcome reference. And to Zam-Buk ointment, which I hadn't thought of in years. New book, new word:

otiose
adjective
serving no practical purpose or result.

[Joy D · Rating 3 out of 5]

Historical fiction set in Ireland during the lead-up to the 1916 Easter Uprising. It features three primary protagonists and a large cast of supporting characters, many of whom are related to each other. Andrew Chase-White is Irish but has lived in England most of his life and is an officer in the British Army. Pat Dumay is an Irish Catholic member of the Sinn Féin. Aunt Millie tries to seduce her nephews and pretty much any other man in her vicinity, leading to a bit of comic relief when they all show up in the same place at once. It is mostly about relationships between the various cousins, aunts, and uncles of the family.

It is densely written, making it feel longer than its pages, and slow in developing. The family members get caught in the vortex and seem to be unable to stop the momentum, which builds toward a tragic event. This book has both sad and humorous moments. For me, it was an uneven reading experience. There were times when I was riveted and other times when I found my attention wandering. I think it would have helped if some of the events told in the epilogue were included in the primary narrative. I liked it but it is not my favorite of Murdoch’s works.

[Esdaile · Rating 3 out of 5]

My feeling about Irish Murdoch is a little bit like that for take away pizzas-enjoyable while consumed but somehow not entirely satisfying. She annoys me for having said, concurring with Angus Wilson, in answer to a survey conducted I think by "The Observor" about forty years ago, that she considered the most overrated English language novelist of the twentieth century to be EM Forster. In my opinion at the time, precisely my two candidates for that "honour" were Angus Wilson and..Iris Murdoch! (Today I would say Angus Wilson and Ian Rankin). However, I prefer her novels to those of Angus Wilson's, which I am almost physically unable to read to the end. I think that Iris Murdoch's weakness is that she gives the appearance of empathising with the feeling sof her characters because she is superbly tolerant of their feelings yet she somehow fails to empathise in the sense that she does not seem to me to really "enter their skin" so that the characters always seem to me to be superficial, with the result that all her stories leave me with the impression of a tolerant but ultimately distanced view of actors and events. She describes events (as here) in which passion and madness are at the fore but she herself can only see and nod and describe but not share. Unlike other commentators I felt that this was one of her better novels, since in the confrontation of Ireland with an alternative destiny to Britain's she is very much at home, especially as much of this presumably relates to her own experience. I read somewhere that she preferred to be called an "Irish" novelist to being called a "British" one, a stickling to what mamy would consider pettyfogging detail which is in itself, in my view, characteristically Irish. However, a sense of following a soap-opera is never far away from us in reading this novel and one of the characters even says that a scene is like that out of a comic opera, which indeed it is; what is convincing is that much of that history did have a taste of comic or soap opera. She has reproduced tolerantly the ridiculous side of Irish history. Where does that leave me in my judgement? Plum in the middle I would say. The novel is not great literature but it is also not poor or disappointing and I do not think many readers will feel cheated in the sense that of saying "why did I bother?". It also has the merit of producing an alternative introduction to Irish history, an introduction to it as an absurd series of events which nevertheless command compassion for all sides. In a world where, contrary to the optimism of the 1960s and 1970s, intolerance, aggressive and foul language, bigotry and sweeping judgements seem to be on the advance all over the world, not least in Britain, and not as so many hoped, on the retreat, this book offers a welcome tale of tolerance. For that, I think, it merits appreciation and acknowledgement.

[Jo · Rating 4 out of 5]

I had heard from our read along group that this novel was a departure from Iris Murdoch’s previous novels in that it is set in 1913 at the time of the Dublin uprising and has a real historical event at its center, rather than some country house or mansion with characters who appear isolated from anything but their own petty lives. However, in many ways this has many of the same elements as the eight novels that come before it; there are still several weak male characters, the set piece scenes of women in gardens, elaborate plans that go awry, secrets and affairs and claustrophobic drawing rooms.

Ironically, despite the fact that the novel is by far the most political of Iris Murdoch’s I’ve read and takes place not only at the time of World War One but of the Easter Uprising, this novel doesn’t seem any more dramatic than many of her others until the very end. There is still suppressed anger and desire, several instance of love declarations and some wrestling and accidental injuries but the drama seems a little more toned down than say in The Unicorn, perhaps because it focuses on real events.

The beginning of the novel is actually quite humorous as Andrew and his mother Hilda, scoff at the Irish and Ireland being particularly appalled at family members adoption of Catholicism and seeing this as a distinct character flaw. Despite both of them being Anglo-Irish Hilda takes the Irish to task as well as members of the family like Kathleen and Millie who do not fit her idea of what women should be. Murdoch clearly portrays Hilda as ridiculous in her prejudice and it stands in contrast to the extreme patriotism of Pat who values and reveres Ireland above almost everything except his brother and mother.

Pat himself is an interesting character, practically sociopathic and almost asexual or even ascetic in his obsessive focus on the fight for a free Ireland yet everyone, including Andrew, seems drawn to him. He stands in contrast to Andrew who although a ‘real’ soldier in the British Army, seems most ambivalent about his position and more concerned about how he looks in his uniform and the romantic connotations of his role. Andrew also looks down on women despite being almost engaged to Frances who, along with his mother, is the only slight exception to this condescension. Murdoch writes that Andrew ‘saw men as inherently dignified animals and women as inherently undignified animals,’ and in his abhorrence of sex, though for different reasons than Pat, we have to wonder if he is barely suppressing a queer identity.

Andrew is very much the wet Murdochian male, even Barney whose tortured musings on what his life could have been and his obsession with Millie are tiresome, is more courageous than he. Millie herself is more courageous than them both, a woman who combines both male and female stereotypical qualities; she flirts and she shoots guns. She is at one extreme of the feminine spectrum as a kind of femme fatale, outrageous and outspoken and even described at one point as a Circe, a witch, while Kathleen is the shabby, religious, aesthetic one and Frances the youngest of the two is somewhere in between. Frances is the one who narrates the epilogue of the story, an inclusion that is something else which sets this aside from other Murdoch novels and injects that more conventional note to the book.

Religion plays a large part in the novel, not in the political sense as such but in both the humor and the angst for Barney in particular, and as in The Bell the soul searching became somewhat tedious. There is also the somewhat confusing and uncomfortable incestuous ‘relationship’, if you can call it that, between several of the characters that only seems shocking to others in the novel because of their previous attachments, not because of the closeness of their relation to one another.

Murdoch writes her usual beautiful descriptions of the countryside and of gardens although here the focus is on the seas and the sky rather than the land and I imagine if you know Dublin well then her descriptions of the city would be even more appreciated. The political and historical side of the book is something I wasn’t very familiar with but I waited until after reading the novel to find out more so it wouldn’t spoil the plot and I don’t think you need to know the ins and outs of the history to still appreciate the book.

Despite a promising beginning, this isn’t one of my favorite Iris Murdoch novels but I really enjoyed the setting of Ireland and the discussion of the politics. Despite the religious discussion occasionally bogging down parts of the novel, it was otherwise very readable and was a welcome relief from the country home intense dramas of The Unicorn and The Italian Girl. It’s hard when reading one of these novels every month, not to see some similarity between the books and in its familial relations this one reminded me most of An Unofficial Rose while its relationship swopping and incestuous nature was reminiscent of A Severed Head. This may have been a departure for Murdoch but it was one that in the main was a successful one for this reader.

[Richard R]

It's somewhat surprising that The Red and the Green is the only Iris Murdoch novel in which historical and political events are, if not centre-stage certainly present as a background to all the novel's events. After all, one of her main influences was Sartre, whose Iron in the Soul series had used the second world war to explore the authentic nature of political acts like violent resistance in a similar way to how Murdoch uses the Easter Rising here. There are some rather obvious differences though: the war is very much present in Sartre's novels while the Rising is largely absent in The Red and the Green, with most of its events told only in retrospect.

Murdoch does also offer a feminist critique of violence that I don't recall in Sartre: " I really think one should be a pacifist. I’m sure they could all make peace now if they tried. But what with the wicked old men and the silly young ones—it’s about time women had the vote." Murdoch also suggests that much of the basis for violence is a sublimation of sexual frustration, characterising Pat as feeling that "he found them (women) somehow muddled and unclean, representative of the frailty and incompleteness of human life. He despised the stupidity and frivolity which characterized their talk, and he was positively nervous of being touched by one.... when he had been a boy he had pictured himself as a monk in one of the more ferociously austere religious orders, envisaging this as a supreme triumph of the will: the will riding alone, naked, over the trembling mediocre human desires."

The question of whether the Rising was a legitimate political act is one much debated in the novel: "What will Home Rule do for that woman begging in the street?... Think about later on, think when people will look back and see that nothing has been changed. You cannot change Ireland by firing a few shots. Don’t you see? Nothing can be done in this way at all. All that great action is in your mind only. You’ll commit crimes and you’ll destroy yourself utterly and break my heart, and for nothing," before the retrospect offered in the epilogue appears to agree with this. "It made no sense at all. Home Rule was coming anyway. Only a lot of disgruntled fanatics wanted to draw attention to themselves. It was pure bloody-minded romanticism, the sort of thing that makes people into fascists nowadays." Nonetheless, Frances seems to conclude that the deaths of Pat in the rising, Cathal in the civil war and Andrew at Paschendale do meet Sartre's concept of authentic existence, for all of the profoundly different causes they died for. She also counters some of the novel's feminist criticisms of violence by offering a feminist comparison to the nationalist cause: "being a woman is like being Irish... everyone says you’re important and nice, but you take second place all the same."

[Leslie · Rating 3 out of 5]

Murdoch's foray into historical fiction, with mixed results. My biggest problem with this, I think, was the character of Millie. She just didn't hold together as a character; in some ways, she seemed more like a symbol than a character, but a symbol of what? She's a kind of sexed-up earth goddess, all plump flesh and allure and excess. I can't say I ever really believed in the allure, though the narrative kept telling me that it existed. She's a narrative device, not a character in her own right, and Murdoch makes her lurch around and do what Murdoch needs her to do--and she's absolutely central to the book--but she does what she does and people respond to her as they do because Murdoch needs them to, not because of any intrinsic character motivation. It's quite possible to write fiction in which psychological realism isn't the driving force, but she's trying to write a kind of realistic fiction, with a certain Jamesian overtone at times, and on that level the book doesn't quite work and Millie really doesn't work. I did quite like the epilogue, with its focus on Frances in the late '30s as she looks back on the Easter Rising and its consequences, personal and national, in the context of the looming war that she doesn't know about but we do.

[Laura · Rating 4 out of 5]

A contemporary view of the events of 1916 in Ireland written by a magnificent Irish writer.

4* Living on Paper: Letters from Iris Murdoch, 1934-1995
5* Iris: A Memoir of Iris Murdoch
5* Iris Murdoch: Dream Girl
4* A Severed Head
4* The Sea, the Sea
4* The Black Prince
4* The Bell
3* Under the Net
3* The Italian Girl
4* The Sandcastle
4* The Sacred and Profane Love Machine
4* The Red and the Green
TR A Fairly Honourable Defeat
TR The Nice and the Good
TR The Philosopher's Pupil
TR The Good Apprentice
TR Jackson's Dilemma
TR Bruno's Dream

[Francesca · Rating 3 out of 5]

Iris Murdoch seems like the it girl for middle aged women in academia

[Bryn · Rating 3 out of 5]

This is a book which I might appreciate more on rereading, as I feel I spent the bulk of the novel trying to figure out just what it was going to be about. Was it going to be historical fiction about the Easter Rising, or humorous middle-class family drama about people who are so caught up in their own personal concerns that they narrowly miss the chance to involve themselves in a watershed historical moment in their own city? Only as I came to the end did I realise that this tension is a large part of what the novel is concerned with, how history is made of people, often people making choices for reasons which have nothing to do with what narratives remember later, and how random and personal and frankly ridiculous it all is. Ridiculous and yet it is all we have. I am beginning to see why Murdoch is such an important novelist; I will be reading more of her work.

[George · Rating 4 out of 5]

A very enjoyable, entertaining read with well developed characters and an unpredictable plot. Set mostly in Dublin, Ireland around the time of the Easter Rebellion of 1916, the story follows the lives of related families. Andrew Chase-White is in the British Army, aged 21, and living in Dublin. His girlfriend is Frances Bellman. Pat Dumay is related to Andrew. Pat is 19 years old, Catholic and an Irish Patriot. Frances father, Christopher Bellman has proposed marriage to Millie Kinnard who is feminist, fast and only just respectable. Millie is in love with Pat, but caught in bed with Andrew and what follows is quite comical.

Murdoch makes some interesting, intelligent comments on the Irish.

Here is a sample of Murdoch 's writing style:

"I think being a woman is like being Irish", said Frances,..."Everyone says you're important and nice, but you take second place all the same."
"A woman caught in my situation has to adopt some tone, and it's not easy to combine devastating frankness with calm dignity."

Readers who enjoy Iris Murdoch's writing style should find this book an entertaining, enjoyable read.
For those who haven't read any Murdoch novels then I recommend first reading 'The Black Prince', 'The Bell' or Booker prize winner, 'The Sea, The Sea'.

[Melissa]

This was a nice book. I'm impressed by Murdoch's compassion and the way it coexists with her razor-sharp insight. She never seems to condemn human frailty, but she sees it very clearly. Although she deflates the concept of soldierly heroism in warfare/revolution and the idea of romantic love, her women characters are all heroic in their own ways, and she shows filial and familial love to be deep and inexhaustible wells.

[Liquidambar · Rating 2 out of 5]

Ho sempre la sensazione di dovermi giustificare quando non riesco ad apprezzare un libro della letteratura canonica.
Volevo leggere un romanzo che trattasse il tema dell'indipendenza irlandese, e volevo conoscere Iris Murdoch: Il rosso e il verde è stato una breve impressione di entrambi, una conversazione origliata.
Iris Murdoch ha il talento di scrivere una prosa ricca e pomposa e al contempo scorrevole ed emozionante, capace di cogliere i tratti salienti di un personaggio. Infatti, i personaggi di questo libro erano veramente ben caratterizzati, e ogni punto di vista era sinceramente intriso dei principi morali del personaggio in questione.

D'altro canto però, i tumulti del 1916 non sono il punto focale della narrazione, che anzi si concentra sui rapporti complicati tra un gruppo di persone, che solo negli ultimi due capitoli convergono per motivi personali ad aderire alla rivolta armata del '16.
Mi è dispiaciuto un po' che i fatti veri e propri siano stati riferiti ad anni di distanza nell'epilogo, e che i personaggi siano stati abbandonati proprio nel momento culminante della tensione narrativa. Chiaramente era un punto di svolta sia storico che personale, tuttavia l'autrice ha ritenuto di aver esaurito il loro arco narrativo ben prima della prova del fuoco che ha rappresentato la rivolta.

In questo senso, la matrice politica e ideologica alla base della richiesta di indipendenza irlandese non viene analizzata lungo tutto il romanzo, anzi viene esaurita in maniera cinica in un capitolo solo, occupando lo stesso spazio dedicato a descrivere l'albero genealogico di una famiglia. Non conoscendo la Murdoch, ho fatto fatica a capire le reali motivazioni dietro a questa scelta deliberata.

I personaggi maschili sono direttamente o indirettamente coinvolti nel conflitto o come soldati inviati al fronte della prima guerra mondiale o come milizie volontarie per la liberazione dell'Irlanda, e sono tutti intimamente compiaciuti del potere che i loro principi hanno sul mondo, sono incredibilmente legati al sentimento di sacrificio patriottico, salvo poi realizzare che il loro ruolo negli eventi non è minimamente decisivo come si sarebbero aspettati.
Di conseguenza, le donne di questo libro - Millie, Kathleen, Frances - sono relegate nell'ignoranza, trattate con sufficienza da mariti, padri e fratelli, incoraggiate a organizzare tè e visite ai parenti pur di non averle tra i piedi: eppure sono loro, con il delicato ma costante impegno sociale di tessere rapporti, ad avere l'ultima parola, a decidere le sorti degli eventi e delle alleanze.

[Neely Karimi · Rating 3 out of 5]

I think my problem with the red and the green is that Millie is written as if she’s a feminist icon that disturbs and dazzles the men around her, only she doesn’t do that for the reader. She’s tortured for the sake of being tortured. She’s in love but I don’t know why. She wants to fight for Ireland but only because she says so. I’m sensing iris murdoch writes male characters with infinite more depth which really doesn’t bother me, except for when her novel centres around a woman with incredibly weak characterisation. It’s rarely her pov we follow and when we do i didn’t feel inspired. I really struggled to visualise her.

Also the musings of country, honour, man and woman and love all began to feel a bit repetitive at a certain point.

Regardless, I can’t help but be charmed by how Murdoch weaves absurd situations between a flurry of characters. It’s a 2.5/5.

[Jude Martyński · Rating 4 out of 5]

Great set up, but it didn’t go the way I would have liked.

[Liza · Rating 3 out of 5]

After reading this, I still can't tell if Iris Murdoch is a serious lady, or a gross sexy monster. Like her other books (that I know, at least), it reads like a cross between a romance novel and a suspense novel with a big dash of metaphysics thrown in. It makes for a good read, but also makes me not quite trust her. I have the pleasurable but uneasy sensation of being taken for a ride.

Again like her other books, her characters felt a little like types created to battle out the question how best to live. In this case the winner seemed to be the Hotspur-like, honor-loving, flesh-hating Pat Dumay ("It would have pleased him to have his flesh beside him, like a beaten, subject animal, entirely cowed by his will.") who died valiantly, hopelessly fighting for Ireland in the Easter Rebellion with, I think, every female character in the book secretly or openly in love with him even though (because) he has no use for them.

At one point in particular, seductive, manipulative, power-loving Millie propositions him and I really hope I am wrong but I couldn't help reading her directly as a Murdoch stand-in and wondering even if it was a veiled message aimed at someone in particular: 'I know you better than you think. I know the twistings and turnings of your heart. I know you because at the bottom you and I are as like as two pins. You want to humiliate yourself. You want your will to drive you like a screaming animal into some dark place where you will be crushed utterly...Come to me then. I will be your slave and your executioner. No other woman can please you. Only I, because I am hard and clever like a man. Only I can understand you and lift to you the face of the beauty that you really desire.' For some reason I cannot read that without picturing it in the mouth of Judi Dench as Iris Murdoch addressing, like, Elias Canetti or something, and I am all, ew, put that away. It is much less to my taste than, say, Nuns and Soldiers where the gayish disorderly lady novelist and gayish doubting ex-nun are the moral winners.

[Christopher Day · Rating 1 out of 5]

I have seen several really good reviews on this book on this site and frankly I just don't get it. Sorry to be out of step here. It is rare for me to criticise a book - honest!

CAUTION - MAJOR SPOILER ALERT FROM HERE ON:
There is only one character of real interest - Millie who is wonderfully eccentric.
Andrew seems to be a main character well developed in the first 100 pages - and then he virtually disappears for 100 pages till he turns up in Millie's bed!
Pat starts out as a self-deluded self-centred immature young man who turns into Action Man in the last 50 pages.
Barney is just plain bonkers - but I suspect we are supposed to take him seriously.
Christopher is a wimp - mooning around after Millie for most of the book - as does Barney.
Millie has everybody chasing her except Pat - who she appears to dismiss as a callow youth for much of the book, (which he is!) - then declares her love for him after a farcical meeting of four of her would be lovers in the middle of the night.
Helen, the apparent love interest for Andrew, is wallpaper for much of the book but then confounds everybody by declining his marriage proposal that everybody was expecting - including her - with no explanation. In the Epilogue she declares that she loved Pat all along - where did that come from? From memory they don't even speak to each other throughout the book.

This is my first Iris Murdoch book and will probably be my last.

[BRT · Rating 2 out of 5]

All the male characters in this book spent pages upon pages in maudlin, self-centered reflection, especially about how much they are maligned/loved/hated/manipulated/controlled by the women in their lives. None of the female characters do any self -reflection. Worse, they are, each & every one, horrible, guilt-inducing, needy, cantankerous, whiny, & wildly unpredictable creatures without any redeeming qualities. And worst of all is the horrible, incestuous spider of an Aunt Millie. Most of the characters are also Anglo-Irish and seem to be incredibly conflicted in where they should place their loyalty, although they clearly despise the Irish, they do think they should care about being Irish. Oh, and the Dublin Easter Rebellion that is at the center of the story? One brief, mostly afterthought mention.

[cato · Rating 4 out of 5]

Pat dumay what a man

[Wayne · Rating 5 out of 5]

The Red and the Green is about love in all its many aspects. It's about being human and all the mistakes we make. It's about moving beyond judgment. It's about how we stumble to understand who we are and why we do the things we do. It's about striving to not be alone in a world that does not always make sense.

Iris Murdoch's ability to expose the psychological reasons behind why the characters in her books act and think the way they do increases with each novel. The Red and the Green is my ninth Iris Murdoch book and my favorite of them all. A lot is made about Murdoch being a philosopher. But, if one looks behind the intellectual games she plays with philosophical questions, one will see a very kind and caring person. She has no problems whatsoever in showing with a wit almost unparalleled how nonsensical we humans can be. I recall the hilarity of the predicaments the characters in A Severed Head got into. And, in The Red and the Green there is a scene that is worthy of being in any French farce. Yet, in spite of deliciously exposing human foibles, when all is said and done, Ms. Murdoch shows her characters as imperfect humans without judging them. And, if the reader looks closely, you can see where she allows us, as well, to understand and sympathize with these people because we see ourselves in them. Is this her way of letting us know we're doing the best we can in spite of our imperfections?

In The Red and the Green we have a variety of different types of love. We have the man who will do anything to save his younger brother from losing his innocence. We have one young man who sacrifices his own honor to protect his mother. We have a love of country that works its way through the book. This love is never resolved. It forever lives within turmoil and separation.

The book takes place in the week leading up to the Easter Rising in Dublin in 1916. Being Easter week, Murdoch brings in the theme of Christ, his suffering before being crucified and the triumph of leaving the tomb. There is a scene with one of the characters, Barney, in which, as he contemplates the meaning of the mass comes to a new understanding:

"What was required of him was something which lay quite outside the deeply worked pattern of suffering, the plain possibility of change without drama and even without punishment. Perhaps after all that was the message of Easter."

Here we see Murdoch's sense of humanity. Throughout the book there are remarks by some characters of how only through punishment can they achieve peace and forgiveness. There is mention of an Irish mindset that is entrenched so deeply in the ways of the past, they are blind to a way to the future. The Red and the Green is about how we as individuals can work towards peace and forgiveness only when we are able to forgive ourselves of our imperfections.

Iris Murdoch continues to grow as an author. When I think back to Under the Net, her first novel, and how it compares to where she is in this her ninth novel, I get excited thinking about what her future works will offer readers. The Red and the Green is an extraordinary book filled with humor, suspense and sorrow. It is one of my most favorite novels ever.

[_bookolic · Rating 5 out of 5]

Adorei conhecer a escrita da Iris Murdoch através desse livro. Pelo que pesquisei esse é seu único romance histórico e estou curiosa pra saber co o são os outros livros dela. Achei a história e as personagens bastante envolventes e bem construídas. O contexto histórico irlandês de 1916 funciona aqui como pano de fundo e achei bem colocado, alémde enriquecedor. A tensão crescente ao longo do livro me fez querer ler outras obras dela. E as descrições da paisagem e o clima de Dublin faz são lindas!

[Glen · Rating 3 out of 5]

Aunt Millie's character makes this novel worthwhile, otherwise it reads a bit too much as the perspective that the Irish needed to realize how good they had it under British rule. It's damned funny at times, though Uncle Barney teeters over the edge of character into caricature. The tears at the end are historically fitting, but seemed misplaced in this somewhat farcical novel.

[Marc Tiefenthal]

Een taaie brok. Leest niet vlot. Maar is wel boeiend. Murdoch maakt er een spel van om al haar personages even diep uit te diepen. Het boek draait om een familie in Ierland op het ogenblik dat daar een opstand tegen Engeland wordt voorbereid. Voor de liefhebbers.

[Gayle · Rating 3 out of 5]

Irish Murdoch

[Simon Moriarty · Rating 5 out of 5]

I loved this, I thought Iris did a fantastic job invoking the time and place - which is one of the biggest challenges in writing historical fiction - I felt I could see it all so clearly, I could breathe the rainy air, could see the skies and smell the dark church interiors, feel the tension in the public streets and the cynical imperious attitudes of characters like Hilda.

The characters are generally so well drawn and Iris's inspections into their minds are so insightful and philosophical, delving so deeply we can know and understand them perfectly. One curiosity and possible criticism for me is that we only get this level of character analysis for the four main male characters; the female characters - who are each very intriguing - are left much more mysterious. I suspect a large part of this is as a plot device to leave some revelations much later but I think Millie and Frances would have benefitted much from a similar study, even if it came late on. We do see a little bit more of Frances in the epilogue but Millie in particular feels perhaps not quite round or realistic enough without that detail.

There were also some brilliant comic moments in the book, Barney and Andrew were pretty regularly hilarious in their personal pathetic failings and the climactic scene with the unplanned late-night gathering of most of the cast at Millie's house was a great comedic set-piece.

I think some people may read this as a novel around the Easter Rising expecting more action, more politics, more guns, and they may be disappointed, but being a fan of Murdoch's writing and philosophy this was actually a perfect lens for me to view a historical event through - focusing instead on the people rather than the fighting or the serious men arguing in official rooms.

[Bryan Bunch · Rating 3 out of 5]

The story wavers about for half the book and we lose sight of who the main characters are--some may be totally unnecessary. About 2/3 of the way in, suspense develops and it is hard to stop reading, but all in all, not one of her best efforts. Still, Iris is better than most, even when off her game.

[Lucy · Rating 3 out of 5]

I loved the character of Barney, he mad the whole book for me, he was so funny and so pathetic.

[Thibault Jacquot-Paratte · Rating 4 out of 5]

Maybe more of a 3 1/2? I'm not sure.
What I can say, is that this novel was as well written, and rich in though, as anything else I've read by this author. I think anyone who likes this writer, who likes psychological novels, novels about "relations between humans", will find something they like. I suppose on my end, I was expecting something else, so I might have ruined it for myself. The novel drags on, with the expectation that we will get to the historical events of which the action is a "prequel"... but it takes a very long time to get there! At some point I felt like saying "Damnit, I know enough about how Barney feels, I want to know what shit is going to hit the fan!" When we get to the end, it feels like the action, which could have been very gripping, is slightly rushed, and Frances - the one character I maybe would have liked to know more about - remains more enigmatic than the rest... maybe that's on purpose, maybe not... In any case.
I picked up this novel of Murdoch's in part because I have a fair amount of interest in Irish history, and independence. Somewhere I was hoping for something much more "about" Easter 1916, and I can only say I got 50% of what I was hoping for, perhaps. That being said, I still did get something from it. Question - would this novel be as interesting for someone with less interest in those historical events? Maybe not.
I can understand the mixed reviews - the novel stays in between a more standard psychological novel, and a historical novel that highlights events and examines them. It's somewhere in between, so it leaves you a bit dissatisfied both ways perhaps.
Then I can feel there was some symbolic value the author wanted to impart on the characters - that Pat and Andrew, while being opposites are also very similar... Much symbolism around Pat... around Milie and Christopher... I can't say I found the symbolism super convincing, but... stuff to think about.
And then in the end, I still enjoyed reading it a lot, and feel confident giving it a four star rating.