گفتگو با آندری تارکوفسکی

Conversations With Filmmakers Series

by Andrei Tarkovsky, John Gianvito, آرش محمداولی (Translator)

ديدن هر فيلمي از اين كارگردان، در چشم هوادارانش يك انتقال زيبا شناختي به مخاطب سينماست كه ممكن است دروني ترين حيطه‌هاي روح را به حركت در آورد. هرچند در نظر خرده‌گيران، همين فيلم‌ها ممكن است احساس شديد هراس، ملال و انزجاري تمام‌وكمال را برانگيزاند.‏
كتاب حاضر مهم ترين مصاحبه‌هاي " آندري تاركوفسكي " با نشريات بزرگ سينمايي جهان است. چند فيلم مهم و معتبر از او كه در ايران هم به نمايش در آمدند عبارتند از: سولاريس ، استاكر ، كودكي ايوان و ايثار. ‏فيلم‌هاي او هميشه در زمان اكران بويژه در ايام برگزاري جشنواره فيلم فجر محل اعتنا و بحث و جدل در بين اهالي سينماي ايران بوده است.‏
اين كارگردان شهير سينما در 28 دسامبر 1986 در سن پنجاه و چهار سالگي دارفاني را وداع گفت.‏

Genres: Film, Nonfiction, Art, Biography, Philosophy, Cultural, Media Tie In

272 pages, Paperback

First published September 21, 2006

About the author

Andrei Arsenyevich Tarkovsky (Russian: Андрей Арсеньевич Тарковский) was a Soviet film director, writer and opera director. Tarkovksy is listed among the 100 most critically acclaimed filmmakers. He attained critical acclaim for directing such films as Andrei Rublev, Solaris and Stalker.

Tarkovsky also worked extensively as a screenwriter, film editor, film theorist, and theater director. He directed most of his films in the Soviet Union, with the exception of his last two films which were produced in Italy and Sweden. His films are characterized by Christian spirituality and metaphysical themes, extremely long takes, lack of conventional dramatic structure and plot, and memorable images of exceptional beauty.

Reviews

[Ilgar Adeli · Rating 3 out of 5]

خیلی از سوال جواب هاش تکرارین تو مقدمه هم گفته که حذف نکرده.
ترتیب گفتگو ها بر اساس زمانه واسه همین فیلماشم بر اساس زمان به سوال هاش جواب میده همینش جذابش میکنه.
فیلماشو ببینین بعد بخونین مثل من نباشین که اول دارم مصاحبه هاشو میخونم بعد 😅.
در کل بنظرم میشد یه کتاب کوتاهتر ازش به صورت گلچین در اورد از توش ولی خب اصلا رسالت کتاب یچیز دیگه بود

[Mohammad Hanifeh · Rating 5 out of 5]

این کتاب برای من مکمل کتاب پنج فيلمنامه، آندری تاركوفسكی بود و اون رو به‌مرور و تقریباً همراه با بازبینی آثار تارکوفسکی خوندم.
این‌طوری تونستم همزمان که خود فیلم‌ها رو می‌بینم و می‌خونم، از حواشی، پیشینه‌ها و بعضی پیامدهای فیلم‌ها هم باخبر بشم. اما مهم‌تر از این‌ها، خوندن خود کلام تارکوفسکی بود که برای من بسیار فراتر از صرفِ یک کارگردان محبوبه و علاقه‌م بهش هم به چهارچوب سینما محدود نمی‌شه. البته با وجود این‌که محور بیشتر مصاحبه‌ها، آثار کارگردانه؛ اما کتاب رو نمی‌شه فقط یه کتاب سینمایی دونست.
خلاصه که این کتاب رو مطمئناً بارها خواهم خوند.

پی‌نوشت:
یک نسخه از این کتاب رو چند سال پیش خریده بودم و نخونده، قرض دادمش به کسی. اما دیگه رنگش رو هم ندیدم. دیگه پارسال تسلیم شدم و رفتم یکی دیگه برای خودم خریدم. :|

[Shourafarin publication نشر شورآفرین · Rating 5 out of 5]

مجموعه‎ این کتاب رو در
گفت وگو با کارگردانان منتشر کردیم

نمي‌دانم چه اتفاقي افتاده، چرا هنر در قرن بيستم رمز و راز خود را از دست داده است. چرا هنرمندان تصميم مي‌گيرند يك‌ شبه هر آن‌چه را مي‌خواهند به دست آورند. هنرمند نخستين سطر شعر خود را نوشته است و مي‌خواهد كه آن را منتشر كند. پيش‌تر، كسي هم‌چون كافكا، داستان‌هاي خود را مي‌نوشت و مي‌مرد و به دوست و مدير برنامه‌هايش وصيت مي‌كرد آثار او را نابود كند. ممكن است بگوييد كافكا هم به قرن بيستم تعلق داشته است. بله، او در اين قرن زندگي مي‌كرد، اما به آن ‌تعلق نداشت. به همين دليل همواره در رنج و عذاب بود. او مردي بود كه آمادگي لازم براي مواجهه با اين زمانه را نداشت. نكته‌ي اصلي من اين است كه يك هنرمند تجربه و تحقيق نمي‌كند، او پيدا مي‌كند؛ زيرا درصورتي‌كه به مكاشفه‌یي دست نيابد اثرش اساسا بيهوده و بي‌ثمر خواهد بود.

از کتاب گفت‌وگو با آندری تارکوفسکی
گردآوري: جان جيانويتو
ترجمه‌ی آرمان صالحي
نشر شورآفرین

[Meric Aksu · Rating 4 out of 5]

Yaşayan en büyük hikayeci film yönetmenidir deniyordu kendisi için kitabın henüz başlarında. Artık değil. Elli dört yaşında, bin dokuz yüz seksen altı yılında hayata gözlerini yummuş yönetmenin röportajlarından derleme bir kitap "Şiirsel Sinema". Lirik şair babası Arseni'nin gölgesinde kalmadan, militan denecek ölçüde taşralı, doğal sürrealist, keşiş-şair bir yönetmen olarak kendisini sanat çevrelerine kabul ettirebilmiş, güçlü bir bireyselcilikle yirmi yıllık meslek yaşantısına yedi tane birbirinden önemli ve de değerli uzun metrajlı film sığdırabilmiş, rahat bir koltukta gevşemeye benzeyen "hoş" filmler yapmaktan kaçınmış, sanatın kurtarıcı ve dönüştürücü gücüne tüm kalbiyle inanan, sanatını yarı dinsel bir çağrı olarak gören, kendisinden üstün bir varlığın eseri olduğunu mütevazi bir farkındalıkla kabullenmiş, tekbenci, dindar, Rus milliyetçisi, insanın maneviyatını geliştirmediği takdirde toplumun çökeceğine kanaat getirmiş, sanatçıyı halkın sesi ve vicdanı olarak görmüş, bir tür altında sınıflandırılmaya dirençli hem avangard hem muhafazakar filmlerinde her zaman insanın kendi varoluşunun anlam arayışını anlatan karakterlere yer veren, sinemada açıklama yapmanın gereksiz olduğunu, izleyicinin duygularını etkilemenin esas olduğunu savunan, sinemayı, müzik ile şiir arasında bir yerde, bir sanat formu olarak görüp önemseyen, manevi ideallerine rağmen maddi dünyada sıkışıp kalmış, kendi kendisiyle mücadelesi hiç bitmeyecek gibi görünen, ruhun ölümsüzlüğüne inanan yönetmenin kadınlara bakış açısından, dünya görüşünün en ince ayrıntılarını gözler önüne seren konuşmalarının yanında, verdiği bilgilerle filmlerinde ne anlatmak istediğini derinden kavramamızı sağlayan yönetmenlerin yönetmeninin röportajlarından derlenmiş bir kaynak kitap var karşınızda. İlgilisine, ilgisizine, sürgüne düşmüş, kendisine karşı gerçek bir sorumluluk duygusu taşıyan ve varoluşa dair taşıdığı derin düşüncelerinin altında ezile ezile şu bölünmüş dünyada yaşamaya çalışan yönetmenin sıla'yı kelimelerle bu kadar kuvvetli bir şekilde anlatışına tanık olacaksınız hiç olmazsa.

"Sanatçı bir asalak gibi çocukluğuyla beslenir." Ayna

[Alireza · Rating 4 out of 5]

كتاب خوبي در مورد عقايد تاركوفسكي و سينمايش بود.
كتاب مشتمل بر مصاحبه هايي است كه تاركفسكي در زمان حياتش با مطبوعات انجام داده است.
و كليد واژهايي كه در كتاب وجود دارد ايمان، هنرمند، وظايف هنرمند نسبت جامعه و اهداف او، نظرتات او نسبت به ساير كارگردانان و مشكلاتي كه افرادي در شوروي براي او ايجاد ميكردند.
در كل دوست داران تاركوفسكي حتما بايد اين كتاب را مطالعه كنند.

[isa lim · Rating 4 out of 5]

This book is just Tarkovsky's angry ramblings at Italian journalists. 10/10 would read again and again and again.

You want to excuse me of egocentrism, but I have never repudiated it. You said that I am egocentric in my work; I not only don't deny this, I even admit that this is my credo. This is not a reproach, this is a fact What a king omg

[سپید]

کنار دریا تمومش کردم، اولین ساعات ماه سپتامبر و بعد روی شن‌ها دراز کشیدم تا مطمئن بشم همه‌چیز یک روز زیر و رو می‌شه.

[Cleo · Rating 4 out of 5]

What a prick 🥰🥰🥰

[Esma Ertürk · Rating 5 out of 5]

tarkovski'nin filmleriyle ilgili röportajlarının derlendiği kitap

[Ali Osia · Rating 4 out of 5]

تارکوفسکی بهترین فیلم‌سازی است که تاکنون شناخته‌ام. این کتاب به مانند آینه‌ایست بر فیلم‌هایش و دیدن همه‌ی فیلم‌هایش بر خواندن آن مقدم. جهان‌بینی دینی تارکوفسکی تقریبا در همه‌ی زمینه‌ها منحصر به فرد و جسورانه است و از این رو خواندن این کتاب بسیار جذاب بود.
از یکی از مصاحبه‌ها:
هنر قابلیت خلق کردن است، بازتاب است، تصویری است در آینه از حرکت خالق. ما هنرمندان فقط تکرار می‌کنیم، فقط تقلید آن حرکت را می‌کنیم. هنر از آن لحظات با ارزشی است که در آن ما شبیه خالق می‌شویم. به همین دلیل است که من هیچ وقت به هنری که از خالق بزرگ مستقل باشد اعتقاد نداشته‌ام. من به هنر بدون خدا اعتقادی ندارم. علت وجودی هنر نیایش است. هنر نیایش من است. اگر این نیایش، اگر فیلم‌های من، مردم را به سوی خدا بیاورند دیگر عالی می‌شود. آن وقت زندگی من معنای کامل خود را خواهد گرفت، معنای اساسی خدمت‌گزاری را. اما من هرگز این را تحمیل نخواهم کرد.

[Ashish Kumar · Rating 5 out of 5]

“Andrei Tarkovsky: Interviews" (Edited by John Gianvito) - Illuminating the Battles Alongside the Brilliance

John Gianvito's essential collection, "Andrei Tarkovsky: Interviews", is far more than a compilation of conversations; it's a vital portal into the fiercely independent, spiritually charged, and often embattled mind of cinema's great poet. Gianvito masterfully selects dialogues where perceptive journalists engage Tarkovsky not with softballs, but with penetrating questions that truly "grill" himon his demanding aesthetics, his rejection of commercial imperatives, and the very nature of artistic creation. The brilliance lies in Tarkovsky's response: wonderfully articulate, deeply philosophical, and unwavering in his convictions, whether discussing the spiritual core of art, the irreconcilable conflict with commerce, or his profound kinship with Dostoevsky. His clarity about his artistic process and filmmaking craft is consistently revelatory.

John Gianvito, a filmmaker attuned to political and artistic struggle, curates this volume brilliantly. His selection prioritizes depth and insight over mere chronology. The introduction and notes provide essential context without overshadowing Tarkovsky's powerful voice. The book feels like a coherent journey through his unwavering artistic worldview, made even sharper by understanding the battles he fought, exemplified by the Bondarchuk episode.

"Andrei Tarkovsky: Interviews" is indispensable. It offers unparalleled access to the mind of a cinematic titan. It's a masterclass in artistic vision and integrity for filmmakers, a profound discourse on art's spiritual potential for philosophers, and the essential key for unlocking the deeper layers of Tarkovsky's films for cinephiles. The book captures a brilliant artist thinking deeply and passionately under pressure, defending his sacred approach to art against probing questions and, implicitly, against the kind of institutional betrayal embodied by Bondarchuk at Cannes. It confirms Tarkovsky not only as a master of the image but as a towering thinker on the purpose of art and the price of uncompromising vision. This collection is as challenging, inspiring, and essential as the man and his films.
Highly recommended.👏👏🎬🎬🎭

[Sandy]

To me, Tarkovsky was probably the greatest filmmaker of the twentieth century. The interviews collected in this volume show him to also be a charismatic and eloquent speaker, an intellectual and a man primarily concerned with spirituality in his art and life above all other political and social questions. By turns he is both adversarial and complicit with the questions put to him by critics and journalists; sometimes evading questions, sometimes giving implausibly direct answers. It strikes one that he played rather fascinating games of evasion, hinting and misdirecting, whilst still offering valuable insights into his own 'authorial' vision.

Although Tarkovsky was probably in his heart always a loyal citizen of the USSR, even after his defection in the 1980s, his concern with the spiritual state of the modern human being encompasses both east and west. It is his desire for the spiritual elevation of human beings against the specific tragedy and drama of the twentieth century that forms the beating heart of his films; his humanism and his religiosity can be clearly seen in both the films and these interviews.

For all this, there are aspects of Tarkovsky the individual (as distinct from Tarkovsky the artist) that strike one as disappointing, frustrating or at least paradoxical: his essentialist and misogynistic view of gender roles; his unsurprisingly rather conservative attitude towards High Art as a distinct and sacred category and his statements that seem to deny the possibility of true cross-cultural understanding, even as he calls for global frontiers to be taken down, to name only a few. I would also say that I do not agree with all his comments on his own films. Nevertheless, these interviews are well worth a read for any devoted fan of his films, if only to gain a better understanding of how the artist himself understood what he was doing in creating these enigmatic masterpieces.

[Dragos · Rating 5 out of 5]

Not necessarily agreed with everything, especially one chapter..you'll know which one when you reach it. However, Tarkovsky seems to be so direct and clear in his views, that some bits were revelatory for me.

Maybe I interpret things in my own way, but hey..that's what the reader should do, right? So just a few things I'd like to note down:

- The meaning of art is prayer.

- The poet's job is not to impose his views of the world. He of course creates based on personal experiences, but it's ok and even desirable for everyone to interpret the art based on their own life experiences and set of beliefs.

- Interpreting too much of a piece of art and trying to find its hidden symbols can be an intellectual waste of time, as art is made to be experienced and get more important things than "easter eggs". That is the way you relate to the art.

-The external conflicts are just distracting from the important, never-ending inner struggles.

-Picasso and Spielberg do no art 😂...I still love E.T. tho'

[ahmet berk duman · Rating 5 out of 5]

“Bir tek yolculuk mümkün yalnızca; kendi iç dünyamıza yaptığımız yolculuk. Gezegenin yüzeyinde gezinerek pek fazla şey öğrenmiyoruz. İnsanın geri dönmek için yola çıktığına da inanmıyorum. İnsan asla başlangıç noktasına geri dönemez, çünkü o arada kendi de değişir. Ve tabii ki kendinizden, olduğunuz kişiden, kendinizle taşıdığınızdan kaçamazsınız. Kabuğunun içindeki kaplumbağa gibi, biz de ruhlarımızın evini taşıyoruz. Dünya üzerindeki ülkeleri gezmek sadece sembolik bir yolculuktur. Nereye giderseniz gidin, hâlâ kendi ruhunuzu arıyorsunuzdur.”
.
.
John Gianvito (Der.); “Şiirsel Sinema - Andrey Tarkovski”, (Türkçesi: Ebru Kılıç), İstanbul: Agora Kitaplığı, Birinci Basım, Mayıs 2009, Sayfa: 117.
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[thuys]

Just as his films, his answers sometimes fool you around. If Im a interviewer, he will certainly say right in my face that Im stupid and know nothing at all. Interviews are some kind of brain games if the two are not sincere with each other and then end up nowhere. As a reader, you even need to dig deeper in words to know what they really think. Its kind of mind training anyway, reading interviews.

[Brett · Rating 3 out of 5]

The guy is pretty damn insufferable. A lot of the interviews in the last third of this compilation are excruciating, especially the crazy misogynist talk with Irena Brezna. The POV from an artist working in the Soviet Union is great, and if you can give it a little distance, all his heart-attack-serious discourse on "the artist," spirituality, and society has a cartoonish madman's charm. If someone wrote a character like this it would be considered too "on the nose."

[SARP · Rating 5 out of 5]

Yönetmenin şeylere bakışına ve psikolojisine dair fikir sahibi olabileceğiniz harika röportajlardan ve yaptığı bazı konuşmalardan oluşan bir kitap. Yalnızca sinemaya ve kendi filmlerine dair değil, aynı zamanda beni şaşırtan ve hayal kırıklığına uğratan kadına dair, milliyetçiliğe dair, batıdaki manen çöküşe dair vs. fikirlerinin de yer aldığı çok güzel röportajlar var.

[Mine · Rating 4 out of 5]

Tarkovsky'nin hayata, sinemaya, sanata dair görüşlerini açık bir şekilde yansıtan ropörtajlarının derlemesi, dili akıcı, rahat okunabilir.

[Samet Tekin · Rating 5 out of 5]

"The more there is evil in the world, the more we have reasons to create beauty. It is doubtless harder, but it is also more necessary."

[Ömer Faruk · Rating 5 out of 5]

Tarkovski'yi anlamak için buradan başlanabilir...

[Abel Almeida]

Very rich interviews. You can really understand Tarkovsky's cinematic language by reading this. He is very articulate in expressing his vision about the role of art and the meaning of life.

[Orhan Gülek · Rating 4 out of 5]

Tarkovski'nin zaman içinde verdiği roportajların derlemesi olarak gayet iyi bir kitap.

[Anda · Rating 3 out of 5]

My lecture choices are quite interesting when I'm procrastinating. I liked when he was talking, although vaguely, about his interest in Oriental philosophy. However, I am not as thrilled about all this as I would have been were I to read this 4, 5 years back.

From the interview with Irena Brezna:

"It would be difficult to deny the woman her own world, but it seems to me that this world is very strongly connected to the world of the man that the woman is involved with. From this point of view, a solitary woman is an abnormality."

"The woman who wants to preserve her own world surprises me. It seems to me that the woman's meaning, the meaning of female love, is self-sacrifice. That is the woman's greatness."

"The woman's inner world depends on her feelings toward the man. In my opinion, she has to, absolutely must depend on them. (...) From my point of view, these women don't understand that they only find their dignity in a male-female relationship in total devotion to the man. When the woman really loves, then she doesn't keep track, then she doesn't ask questions like you."

He should have stuck with the Oriental philosophy...Now I will have a hard time falling asleep on Nostalghia.

[Ogi Ogas · Rating 4 out of 5]

My ratings of books on Goodreads are solely a crude ranking of their utility to me, and not an evaluation of literary merit, entertainment value, social importance, humor, insightfulness, scientific accuracy, creative vigor, suspensefulness of plot, depth of characters, vitality of theme, excitement of climax, satisfaction of ending, or any other combination of dimensions of value which we are expected to boil down through some fabulous alchemy into a single digit.

[Nathan · Rating 5 out of 5]

A must for Tarkovsky fans. The first half is an excellent collection of interviews that skew more towards exploring his Ivan to Stalker output on a fairly straightforward level. The second half (1980-1986) goes much deeper into Tarkovsky's personal reflections on faith and art. The Brezna and Ishimov/Shejko pieces are alone worth the price of the book. Highly rec'd for Tarkophiles.

[ismail ucpinar · Rating 5 out of 5]

'Nihayetinde sorun ölmek ya da ölmemek değil, hepimiz öleceğiz: ya birlikte ya da peş peşe...' diyerek esas sorunu toplumun manevi zenginliğini arttırmamasında gören ve bu sebeple toplumun kendi çöküşünü hazırladığını söyleyen bir Tarkovsky'i ve filmleri üzerine yapılmış söyleşileri içeren müthiş bir kitap.

[Patrick · Rating 5 out of 5]

Wonderful series of interviews from Ivan's Childhood to his deathbed in Paris. Wonderful evolution of an artist in particular during the period of "Nostalghia" where Tarkovsky discusses his fears and dreams after defecting the Soviet Union.

[Burton · Rating 4 out of 5]

Three star questions, five star answers. The most inspiring filmmaker I've read in some time. Will be buying Tarkovsky's Sculpting in Time asap.