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Talking Doctrine: Mormons and Evangelicals in Conversation
Over the past two centuries relations between Mormons and evangelicals could at best be described as guarded and suspicious and at worst as antagonistic and hostile. In recent years, however, evangelicals and Mormons have frequently found themselves united against certain influences in society―militant atheism, growing secularism, ethical relativism and frontal attacks on marriage, the family and religious liberty. With this background, a group of nine Mormon and ten evangelical scholars undertook a remarkable journey over a period of fifteen years to discuss differences and investigate possible common ground. The essays in this book reflect thoughtful, respectful and nuanced engagements on some of the most controversial topics that have inflamed passions in the past. Evangelical contributors include Among the Mormon participants are They and thirteen others consider what they have learned about honest, frank and respectful dialogue while also taking up key doctrines for both communities. The results may surprise you as the nature of God, authority, grace and more are all discussed with both candor and generosity.
256 pages, Paperback
First published August 3, 2015
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37 people want to read
About the author
Richard J. Mouw
86 books42 followersRichard John Mouw is a theologian and philosopher. He held the position of President at Fuller Theological Seminary for 20 years (1993-2013), and continues to hold the post of Professor of Faith and Public Life.
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Displaying 1 - 6 of 6 reviews
December 18, 2015
Talking Doctrine: Mormons & Evangelicals in Conversation edited by Richard J. Mouw and Robert L. Millet is a collection of essays culminating from nearly two decades of intentional inter-faith dialogue between Evangelicals and Mormons. The collection essays are diverse and address a wide assortment of topics that are traditionally associated with the Mormon-Evangelical discussion. Accordingly, the book is helpfully organized underneath two general section headings: (1) the nature of the dialogue and (1) specific doctrinal discussions. It is here that the conversation begins.
The opening section of Talking Doctrine helpfully sets the tone for the conversation ahead. The reader is first brought into the background and context of the project. It is here that the reader encounters the charitable character exhibited in the exchange. The tone is respectful and cordial despite the clear theological differences. As an Evangelical who appreciates inter-faith dialogue and worldview analysis, I found this first section of the book to be an exciting and appropriate demonstration of how responsible exchange should be facilitated. However, I also found myself a bit concerned with the soft-handed approach of some of the Evangelical contributors.
The subsequent section turns more pointedly towards the specific doctrinal differences traditionally witnessed between Mormons and Evangelicals. This interaction was helpful and appropriately modeled. Although, as someone who interacts with Mormons with some level of frequency, I would be hard-pressed to believe that the Mormon contributors of this volume represent the theological convictions of the missionaries that knock on my door. Still, the honest and candid conversation about the trinity, grace, the origins of mankind, the nature of God, deification, and authority are well worth the price of the book—especially if you engage in similar conversations regularly.
Talking Doctrine: Mormons & Evangelicals in Conversation is a valuable book if for no other reason than it models the effectiveness of a relationally driven inter-faith dialogue. If compassion for people and understanding of worldview are absent from our efforts to pursue truth, then our efforts will ultimately fail. There will inevitably be several points of disagreement throughout the book for both Mormons and Evangelicals, both in methodology and affirmation, but the book has undoubtedly accomplished what it intended to accomplish. If you are in the market for an up-to-date exploration into some of the similarities and differences between current theological trends shaping Mormonism and Evangelical Christianity, the present volume is a suitable entry point.
I received a review copy of these books in exchange for and honest review. I was not required to write a positive review. The opinions I have expressed are my own. I am disclosing this in accordance with the Federal Trade Commission’s 16 CFR, Part 255: “Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising.
The opening section of Talking Doctrine helpfully sets the tone for the conversation ahead. The reader is first brought into the background and context of the project. It is here that the reader encounters the charitable character exhibited in the exchange. The tone is respectful and cordial despite the clear theological differences. As an Evangelical who appreciates inter-faith dialogue and worldview analysis, I found this first section of the book to be an exciting and appropriate demonstration of how responsible exchange should be facilitated. However, I also found myself a bit concerned with the soft-handed approach of some of the Evangelical contributors.
The subsequent section turns more pointedly towards the specific doctrinal differences traditionally witnessed between Mormons and Evangelicals. This interaction was helpful and appropriately modeled. Although, as someone who interacts with Mormons with some level of frequency, I would be hard-pressed to believe that the Mormon contributors of this volume represent the theological convictions of the missionaries that knock on my door. Still, the honest and candid conversation about the trinity, grace, the origins of mankind, the nature of God, deification, and authority are well worth the price of the book—especially if you engage in similar conversations regularly.
Talking Doctrine: Mormons & Evangelicals in Conversation is a valuable book if for no other reason than it models the effectiveness of a relationally driven inter-faith dialogue. If compassion for people and understanding of worldview are absent from our efforts to pursue truth, then our efforts will ultimately fail. There will inevitably be several points of disagreement throughout the book for both Mormons and Evangelicals, both in methodology and affirmation, but the book has undoubtedly accomplished what it intended to accomplish. If you are in the market for an up-to-date exploration into some of the similarities and differences between current theological trends shaping Mormonism and Evangelical Christianity, the present volume is a suitable entry point.
I received a review copy of these books in exchange for and honest review. I was not required to write a positive review. The opinions I have expressed are my own. I am disclosing this in accordance with the Federal Trade Commission’s 16 CFR, Part 255: “Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising.
October 29, 2015
When honest folks who come from differing religious perspectives sit down to clearly discuss their differences, respect the others' positions, civilly disagree, and agree where they can with integrity, is a good endeavor. "Talking Doctrine: Mormons and Evangelicals in Conversation" is the result of a 15 year effort to do just those things. Richard Mouw, professor of faith and public life after twenty years as president of Fuller Theological Seminary, and Robert Millet, coordinator of the Office of Religious Outreach and professor emeritus of religious education at Brigham Young University, have pulled together a number of participants from among the Latter-day Saints (LDS) and Evangelicals, who have compiled observations and results of their numerous discussions, and put them into this book.
"Talking Doctrine" breaks out into two sections, the first giving giving observations on the chronological and experiential nature of their multi-year dialogue. The second section references the various doctrinal discussions covered in the numerous meetings, and what each other took away. The editors did a fair job in keeping the chapter installments balanced between LDS and Evangelical. Normally one chapter was penned by an LDS participant, and the next was written by an Evangelical. The authors are not normally debating or interacting with each others' chapters, since that has already been done face-to-face. This is almost an after-action review.
There are some eye-opening chapters in "Talking Doctrine" with reference to Mormon doctrine, especially in the areas of cosmology, the Trinity and anthropology. There are also some disappointing aspects, specifically when Evangelicals seem to bend over backwards to try and agree with the LDS positions. One almost gets the feeling that a few of the Evangelicals are a hair's breadth away from saying, "Gee gang, we're almost the same, see? The LDS folks are talking our talk, and mean a lot of what we mean, they just come at it differently."
Overall I found "Talking Doctrine" informative, intriguing and sometimes flat disappointing. The book was helpful in wiping away a few misconceptions, as well as raising more important concerns - especially in the areas of the Trinity, Christology, cosmology and anthropology. But it was also helpful in showing how folks with differing religious positions can sit down to clearly discuss their differences, respect the others' positions, civilly disagree, and agree where they can with integrity. If you are thinking of engaging in such a dialogue, maybe between Orthodox and Evangelicals, Muslims and Evangelicals - to name two I know are happening presently - this might be a good resource to give an example of how it can be done, and what procedural potholes to watch out for. I recommend the book.
My thanks goes out to InterVarsity Press and IVP Academic for the free copy of the book used for this review.
"Talking Doctrine" breaks out into two sections, the first giving giving observations on the chronological and experiential nature of their multi-year dialogue. The second section references the various doctrinal discussions covered in the numerous meetings, and what each other took away. The editors did a fair job in keeping the chapter installments balanced between LDS and Evangelical. Normally one chapter was penned by an LDS participant, and the next was written by an Evangelical. The authors are not normally debating or interacting with each others' chapters, since that has already been done face-to-face. This is almost an after-action review.
There are some eye-opening chapters in "Talking Doctrine" with reference to Mormon doctrine, especially in the areas of cosmology, the Trinity and anthropology. There are also some disappointing aspects, specifically when Evangelicals seem to bend over backwards to try and agree with the LDS positions. One almost gets the feeling that a few of the Evangelicals are a hair's breadth away from saying, "Gee gang, we're almost the same, see? The LDS folks are talking our talk, and mean a lot of what we mean, they just come at it differently."
Overall I found "Talking Doctrine" informative, intriguing and sometimes flat disappointing. The book was helpful in wiping away a few misconceptions, as well as raising more important concerns - especially in the areas of the Trinity, Christology, cosmology and anthropology. But it was also helpful in showing how folks with differing religious positions can sit down to clearly discuss their differences, respect the others' positions, civilly disagree, and agree where they can with integrity. If you are thinking of engaging in such a dialogue, maybe between Orthodox and Evangelicals, Muslims and Evangelicals - to name two I know are happening presently - this might be a good resource to give an example of how it can be done, and what procedural potholes to watch out for. I recommend the book.
My thanks goes out to InterVarsity Press and IVP Academic for the free copy of the book used for this review.
December 14, 2024
This is the first book I've read about differences (yes, and similarities) in Evangelical Christian and Mormon doctrine. But it's more than that. It's essays about 15 years of meetings and dialogue between the scholars in both groups. It's very admirable, the friendships and increased understanding between them. How our world would be different if more people could speak and listen as they have done!
They are right--we all should approach others with humility and be willing to look at some of the flaws in how we practice our faith. The Mormons said they want a little more respect. One of the last essays talked about how very Bible-based their Mormon faith was, and how much they have in common with the Evangelicals. That's lovely. So much about what we have in common.
But folks. The Christian faith is all about The Bible as the Word of God. When you have one man who claims to have so much revelation from God that is equal to the Bible, with many of the teachings spinning way off of what the Bible says, that is going to be a big problem. People can genuinely like each other, also respect each other for many reasons. But adding all this to the Word of God is going to throw a monkey wrench into the relationships. It's going to make Evangelicals not want to disrespect God by adding to His Word. That's what everyone should expect.
They are right--we all should approach others with humility and be willing to look at some of the flaws in how we practice our faith. The Mormons said they want a little more respect. One of the last essays talked about how very Bible-based their Mormon faith was, and how much they have in common with the Evangelicals. That's lovely. So much about what we have in common.
But folks. The Christian faith is all about The Bible as the Word of God. When you have one man who claims to have so much revelation from God that is equal to the Bible, with many of the teachings spinning way off of what the Bible says, that is going to be a big problem. People can genuinely like each other, also respect each other for many reasons. But adding all this to the Word of God is going to throw a monkey wrench into the relationships. It's going to make Evangelicals not want to disrespect God by adding to His Word. That's what everyone should expect.
May 11, 2021
Charitable interfaith engagement!
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
August 2, 2015
In another recent review, I faulted the authors of a recent apologetic resource for their tone (though I signaled my substantial agreement with their claims and theological commitments). Talking Doctrine: Mormons & Evangelicals in Conversation is an altogether different approach. Edited by Richard Mouw, Reformed theologian and past president of Fuller Seminary and Mormon theologian Robert Millet, Talking Doctrine is a window into a interfaith dialogue that has been happening between Mormons and Evangelicals for the past fifteen years. Because this volume has contributors from both groups, the concerns of both Mormons and Evangelicals are articulated; yet there is something else too. Each contributor has sought to listen charitably to the other and friendship and trust has grown across the theological divide.
The book's two parts give us an overview of their discussions and some of the sticking-points for each community. Part one examines the 'nature of the dialogue.' The contributors summarize their dialogue and offer autobiographical reflections about what the conversation has meant, and can mean for each their communities. In part two, the authors share the mutual understanding (yet continuing disagreement) on specific doctrinal issues.
When these Mormon and evangelical scholars first met, they regarded each other with mutual suspicion. Both groups have grown used to the other making assumptions about the veracity of their faith experience (terms like 'cult' and apostasy have been bandied about). And yet as they sat down to these conversation and really tried to listen to what the other group actually believed, a surprising common ground emerged. Craig Blomberg, observes:
We have recognized that the most effective forum for mutual understanding comes when we agree that none of us in our joint gatherings will try to proselytize the other, though what two of us might decide to do in some entirely private conversation elsewhere is entirely up to us. At the same time, we have all expected that our communities would continue to proselytize each other actively, but that they need to do so with much greater awareness of each other's beliefs, misunderstandings, stereotypes, 'red-flag' issues and the like (34).
There was not a single convert to Mormonism or evangelicalism in these gatherings. Each participant was (and is) immersed meaningfully in their group's theological and religious culture. However real change happened. The evangelicals realized their own characterization of the Mormons as believers in 'works righteousness' The conversation revealed a mutual commitment to the efficacy and finality of Christ's atonement and his work on the cross. The Mormons affirmed their belief in divine grace (especially Camille Fronk Olson's essay). This gave the evangelical contributors pause about making declarations on the eternal salvation of their Mormon friends. At the same time, several Evangelicals recognized the Mormon critique of their lack of theological unity and a central authority.
Certainly sticking-points remain and the evangelicals (or Mormon) participants would not commend the others' faith to seekers. What has emerged from dialogue is not bland relativism of theological commitments but mutual respect and understanding. As J. Spencer Fluhman (one of the Mormon scholars) says:
We've all found it much more difficult to dismiss a theology when it is embodied. Perhaps some of our evangelical counterparts are even less convinced that we're real Christians. But I doubt it. I am sure of this: I would be perfectly comfortable with Richard Mouw or Craig Blomberg or Dennis Okholm answering questions about Mormonism in the press or in print. I would expect them to be clear about positions they disagree with--heaven knows they have been clear with us--but I know my name or my faith is safe in their hands. The dialogue has been demanding and it has forced some tough questions, but for the most part I have been moved by the displays of generosity and humility on both sides (31).
Without summarizing all of the essays or content of this book, some of the stand-out essays I enjoyed are: J. Spencer Fluhman's essay on his experience of the dialogue and Blomberg's dream for future dialogue (both cited above), Dennis Okholm's essay on 'apologetics as if people mattered' more than arguments, Gerald McDermott's essay on the nature of serious (rigorous), devout (where each contributor is committed to their faith) and Holy dialogue (aimed at proper understanding and encounter with God), Sarah Taylor's autobiographical essay about learning respect for the faith of Mormons while attending BYU as an undergrad, Camille Fronk Olson's exploration of the doctrine of grace in Mormonism and Robert Millet's essays about authority and revelation.
This gets an enthusiastic five stars and I am excited to see where this conversation will go!
Note: I received this book from IVP Academic in exchange for my honest review.
The book's two parts give us an overview of their discussions and some of the sticking-points for each community. Part one examines the 'nature of the dialogue.' The contributors summarize their dialogue and offer autobiographical reflections about what the conversation has meant, and can mean for each their communities. In part two, the authors share the mutual understanding (yet continuing disagreement) on specific doctrinal issues.
When these Mormon and evangelical scholars first met, they regarded each other with mutual suspicion. Both groups have grown used to the other making assumptions about the veracity of their faith experience (terms like 'cult' and apostasy have been bandied about). And yet as they sat down to these conversation and really tried to listen to what the other group actually believed, a surprising common ground emerged. Craig Blomberg, observes:
We have recognized that the most effective forum for mutual understanding comes when we agree that none of us in our joint gatherings will try to proselytize the other, though what two of us might decide to do in some entirely private conversation elsewhere is entirely up to us. At the same time, we have all expected that our communities would continue to proselytize each other actively, but that they need to do so with much greater awareness of each other's beliefs, misunderstandings, stereotypes, 'red-flag' issues and the like (34).
There was not a single convert to Mormonism or evangelicalism in these gatherings. Each participant was (and is) immersed meaningfully in their group's theological and religious culture. However real change happened. The evangelicals realized their own characterization of the Mormons as believers in 'works righteousness' The conversation revealed a mutual commitment to the efficacy and finality of Christ's atonement and his work on the cross. The Mormons affirmed their belief in divine grace (especially Camille Fronk Olson's essay). This gave the evangelical contributors pause about making declarations on the eternal salvation of their Mormon friends. At the same time, several Evangelicals recognized the Mormon critique of their lack of theological unity and a central authority.
Certainly sticking-points remain and the evangelicals (or Mormon) participants would not commend the others' faith to seekers. What has emerged from dialogue is not bland relativism of theological commitments but mutual respect and understanding. As J. Spencer Fluhman (one of the Mormon scholars) says:
We've all found it much more difficult to dismiss a theology when it is embodied. Perhaps some of our evangelical counterparts are even less convinced that we're real Christians. But I doubt it. I am sure of this: I would be perfectly comfortable with Richard Mouw or Craig Blomberg or Dennis Okholm answering questions about Mormonism in the press or in print. I would expect them to be clear about positions they disagree with--heaven knows they have been clear with us--but I know my name or my faith is safe in their hands. The dialogue has been demanding and it has forced some tough questions, but for the most part I have been moved by the displays of generosity and humility on both sides (31).
Without summarizing all of the essays or content of this book, some of the stand-out essays I enjoyed are: J. Spencer Fluhman's essay on his experience of the dialogue and Blomberg's dream for future dialogue (both cited above), Dennis Okholm's essay on 'apologetics as if people mattered' more than arguments, Gerald McDermott's essay on the nature of serious (rigorous), devout (where each contributor is committed to their faith) and Holy dialogue (aimed at proper understanding and encounter with God), Sarah Taylor's autobiographical essay about learning respect for the faith of Mormons while attending BYU as an undergrad, Camille Fronk Olson's exploration of the doctrine of grace in Mormonism and Robert Millet's essays about authority and revelation.
This gets an enthusiastic five stars and I am excited to see where this conversation will go!
Note: I received this book from IVP Academic in exchange for my honest review.
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July 30, 2015Wonderful. So glad InterVarsity Press wants to dialogue with a group that forcefully argues for historical propositions that we all agree our palpably false. Book of Mormon, false. Temple rites, utterly bogus. Legacy of Joseph Smith and the "Book of Abraham" farcical from the start. And IVP aims to underscore our agreements with the Mormons, even as the world attempts to laugh at our stands based on the historicity of Scripture. Seriously? Gee, with friends like this who needs enemies? I respect Mark Noll and company, but here their desire for docile civility and academic credibility at strips their common sense. LDS claims are bogus at their core, magic underwear and all. Extending an olive branch simply makes us look equally un-credible.
Displaying 1 - 6 of 6 reviews