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Fire In The Mind: Science, Faith, and the Search for Order
A study of the human drive to create order and reason is set in New Mexico and notes the parallel beliefs of the ancient Anasazi people, the Tewa Native Americans, the Penitentes, and the scientists of the Santa Fe Institute. 10,000 first printing.
379 pages, Hardcover
First published January 1, 1995
31 people are currently reading
464 people want to read
About the author
George Johnson
267 books49 followersLibrarian note:
There is more than one author in the GoodReads database with this name
George Johnson (born January 20, 1952) is an American journalist and science writer. He is the author of a number of books, including The Ten Most Beautiful Experiments (2008) and Strange Beauty: Murray Gell-Mann and the Revolution in 20th-Century Physics (1999), and writes for a number of publications, including The New York Times.
He is one of the co-hosts (with science writer John Horgan) of "Science Saturday", a weekly discussion on the website Bloggingheads.tv, related to topics in science. Several prominent scientists, philosophers, and bloggers have been interviewed for the site.
There is more than one author in the GoodReads database with this name
George Johnson (born January 20, 1952) is an American journalist and science writer. He is the author of a number of books, including The Ten Most Beautiful Experiments (2008) and Strange Beauty: Murray Gell-Mann and the Revolution in 20th-Century Physics (1999), and writes for a number of publications, including The New York Times.
He is one of the co-hosts (with science writer John Horgan) of "Science Saturday", a weekly discussion on the website Bloggingheads.tv, related to topics in science. Several prominent scientists, philosophers, and bloggers have been interviewed for the site.
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Displaying 1 - 26 of 26 reviews
November 14, 2009
Fire in the Mind is one of those books that make you want to read ten others. His main point is that the truth that you see in the world depends on the filter you’re looking through, and that both agnostic scientists and practicers of religion are struggling to impose their own sense of order on a messy universe. He delves into quantum mechanics and cosmology on one hand, and the intricacies of Southwestern religion (both Catholic and indigenous) on the other. He helped me to see that science is not this absolute edifice of truth that we sometimes take it to be.
On the other hand, Johnson describes the research of a set of scientists who believe there is order in the universe where mainstream scientific thought thinks there is none: in the origin and evolution of life. Their work hints that the arrival of complexity in the universe, and particularly in the form of life, is not necessarily the fluke it is sometimes made out to be, and that life in some form or another is inherent in the very structure of the universe. They are not anti-Darwinian, but they don’t think that Darwinian theory is sufficient to explain the diversity and complexity of life. I read the book primarily for these sections and I found them fascinating, particularly since Johnson doesn’t try to come down on either side.
Some of the science described in this book can be a little difficult if you are rusty – I had trouble with the descriptions of quantum mechanics and I think Johnson isn’t the best in presenting unusual concepts in an easy to understand way. But I got enough out of his book to make it worth reading, and I plan to find a layperson’s introduction to quantum mechanics to clear my confusion.
On the other hand, Johnson describes the research of a set of scientists who believe there is order in the universe where mainstream scientific thought thinks there is none: in the origin and evolution of life. Their work hints that the arrival of complexity in the universe, and particularly in the form of life, is not necessarily the fluke it is sometimes made out to be, and that life in some form or another is inherent in the very structure of the universe. They are not anti-Darwinian, but they don’t think that Darwinian theory is sufficient to explain the diversity and complexity of life. I read the book primarily for these sections and I found them fascinating, particularly since Johnson doesn’t try to come down on either side.
Some of the science described in this book can be a little difficult if you are rusty – I had trouble with the descriptions of quantum mechanics and I think Johnson isn’t the best in presenting unusual concepts in an easy to understand way. But I got enough out of his book to make it worth reading, and I plan to find a layperson’s introduction to quantum mechanics to clear my confusion.
May 17, 2014
"In an accelerator experiment, more data are produced than we could ever hope to interpret; this information is sifted with computers programmed to look for the patterns the theorists have decided are important. Theory restricts the search space. But maybe more important truths lie in what we thought was noise." (56)
"From our vantage point on this tiny planet we construct a universe." (70)
"To Bohr and Heisenberg it was meaningless to speculate on whether the wave itself is somehow real. At the doorway into the atom, we have reached the limits of our powers. As Heisenberg put it: 'What we learn about is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our methods of questioning.'" (147)
"As a final variation on the experiment, imagine that instead of shooting the electrons through a vacuum, we should them through a gas of photons dense enough to ensure a reasonable chance that the quantum bullets will interact with the medium. The interference is gone and we get the classical distribution pattern again. Apparently we don't need a measurer or even an inanimate detector to cause docoherence. It seems that the environment itself can absorb the excess information and cause the possible outcomes to come unglued. And there lies the beauty of this interpretation: there is no reason to give special status to an observer or to sanctify the measurement act. Anything that can absorb information can be thought of as making a measurement. The collapse of the wave function can be shifted from the observer and placed on the environment itself." (164-5)
"There is something curiously circular about all this: science, the art of compressing data, turns its gaze back on itself and finds, surprise, that the very ability to gather and compress data is fundamental." (280)
"We dream of a reason that is transcendent. But we are matter-bound." (316)
"From our vantage point on this tiny planet we construct a universe." (70)
"To Bohr and Heisenberg it was meaningless to speculate on whether the wave itself is somehow real. At the doorway into the atom, we have reached the limits of our powers. As Heisenberg put it: 'What we learn about is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our methods of questioning.'" (147)
"As a final variation on the experiment, imagine that instead of shooting the electrons through a vacuum, we should them through a gas of photons dense enough to ensure a reasonable chance that the quantum bullets will interact with the medium. The interference is gone and we get the classical distribution pattern again. Apparently we don't need a measurer or even an inanimate detector to cause docoherence. It seems that the environment itself can absorb the excess information and cause the possible outcomes to come unglued. And there lies the beauty of this interpretation: there is no reason to give special status to an observer or to sanctify the measurement act. Anything that can absorb information can be thought of as making a measurement. The collapse of the wave function can be shifted from the observer and placed on the environment itself." (164-5)
"There is something curiously circular about all this: science, the art of compressing data, turns its gaze back on itself and finds, surprise, that the very ability to gather and compress data is fundamental." (280)
"We dream of a reason that is transcendent. But we are matter-bound." (316)
December 7, 2019
Fire in the Mind is fascinating and informative and provided an invaluable contribution to my on-going, personal study of Religious Naturalism. Reading it was also a lot of work. I am not a scientist and the part on Quantum Theory in particular got uncomfortably close to the "not worth the effort" line for me, but luckily, never quite went over that line.
March 11, 2023
This book is beguilingly written. It offers no less than a common framework for the pagan religions of native America, the sanguinary absolutes of Catholicism and the methodological naturalism of Science. At Santa Fe, the three meet on the same piece of territory but never quite in the mind. Nevertheless, they are all sparks of that common fire - the quest to see order in the world.
I found it a surprisingly slow read considering that it covered familiar science and is rivettingly written. There are two possible explanations: The first is that I am getting old. The second is that the book actually makes one think. I'm inclined to put it down to a mixture of both.
The author treats with the creation myths of the Tewa, the Church and of cosmology. While I do not feel that he makes the mistake of placing the former two on the same level of credibility as the last, he does highlight some important commonalities. Fundamentally, all arise out of a quest to see order which may ultimately be creating it where it is not. Fundamentally, our nervous systems always stand in the way of complete certainty that what we order is in the world and not in our minds. Fundamentally, the empiricism of science is a compromise.
Still, the author is well-versed in science which spans a range from quantum physics and cosmology to evolution. He knows his stuff.
The only time I felt he was stretching was when discussing evolution, the area in which my own interest and knowledge is probably strongest. This may be because I debate a great deal with creationists and the inconsistencies to which he points are creationist staples. We have got used to treating them as no big deal, so it feels like he is grasping at straws. However, he then goes on to cover naturalistic solutions based in self-organisation, which leaves one feeling like one is grasping at smoke in finding an attack route. I think it is fairest to say that these inconsistencies are not a big deal for evolutionary science, but are interesting in their own right and impinge most directly on abiogenesis. The discovery of a set of laws of self-organisation that predestine the emergence of life would, indeed, be a big deal.
I found it a surprisingly slow read considering that it covered familiar science and is rivettingly written. There are two possible explanations: The first is that I am getting old. The second is that the book actually makes one think. I'm inclined to put it down to a mixture of both.
The author treats with the creation myths of the Tewa, the Church and of cosmology. While I do not feel that he makes the mistake of placing the former two on the same level of credibility as the last, he does highlight some important commonalities. Fundamentally, all arise out of a quest to see order which may ultimately be creating it where it is not. Fundamentally, our nervous systems always stand in the way of complete certainty that what we order is in the world and not in our minds. Fundamentally, the empiricism of science is a compromise.
Still, the author is well-versed in science which spans a range from quantum physics and cosmology to evolution. He knows his stuff.
The only time I felt he was stretching was when discussing evolution, the area in which my own interest and knowledge is probably strongest. This may be because I debate a great deal with creationists and the inconsistencies to which he points are creationist staples. We have got used to treating them as no big deal, so it feels like he is grasping at straws. However, he then goes on to cover naturalistic solutions based in self-organisation, which leaves one feeling like one is grasping at smoke in finding an attack route. I think it is fairest to say that these inconsistencies are not a big deal for evolutionary science, but are interesting in their own right and impinge most directly on abiogenesis. The discovery of a set of laws of self-organisation that predestine the emergence of life would, indeed, be a big deal.
January 10, 2022
To start with, George Johnson is brilliant and confidently covers technical scientific concepts from a wide variety of disciplines (particle physics, astronomy, evolutionary biology, etc). He has a knack for summarizing the key issues in an understandable way. So even though he occasionally bogged down in details…and even though the book itself is almost 30 years old…I still got a lot out of his analysis.
Johnson’s thesis is that all people are motivated by a desire to find order in and explanation for our universe. This same impulse motivates people to choose religion and/or science. The heart of the book is about demonstrating that, contrary to the impressions given, the major fields of science must embrace an uncomfortable amount of uncertainty. Whether that is on the level of electron variability, dark matter, entropy and information, or Darwinism, science cannot fully explain all the data. We keep searching for laws and order, but is there any? He asks similar questions of religion, but that is not his major focus.
I find this book to be very valuable in puncturing the aura of certainty many scientists create around pure naturalism. I do not ask people to become theists solely on the basis of natural observation, but I do tire of the implication that belief in God is irrational and contrary to science…and then have the same scientists posit that aliens seeded life on earth, we’re just one universe in a limitless multiverse, or that prokaryotes became eukaryotes because I can imagine how it might have happened. That’s not science either. I give kudos to Johnson for being humble enough to question science…and religion.
Johnson’s thesis is that all people are motivated by a desire to find order in and explanation for our universe. This same impulse motivates people to choose religion and/or science. The heart of the book is about demonstrating that, contrary to the impressions given, the major fields of science must embrace an uncomfortable amount of uncertainty. Whether that is on the level of electron variability, dark matter, entropy and information, or Darwinism, science cannot fully explain all the data. We keep searching for laws and order, but is there any? He asks similar questions of religion, but that is not his major focus.
I find this book to be very valuable in puncturing the aura of certainty many scientists create around pure naturalism. I do not ask people to become theists solely on the basis of natural observation, but I do tire of the implication that belief in God is irrational and contrary to science…and then have the same scientists posit that aliens seeded life on earth, we’re just one universe in a limitless multiverse, or that prokaryotes became eukaryotes because I can imagine how it might have happened. That’s not science either. I give kudos to Johnson for being humble enough to question science…and religion.
May 13, 2011
Combining concepts of emergence and complexity the book explores the connection between science and spirituality. It runs through many areas of popular interest including areas involved in anthropology, including the culture of southwest native americans and archeology. It isn't a lazy text nor is it what some might consider to be new age clap-trap. I haven't read it in years and I confess I can't give you a detailed description of its contents (if I ever get the time it needs to go back to onto the "reread" list), but I know its contents seeped into my way of thinking and have been germinating for years. It was one of the first of the more popular yet serious books looking at complexity in a broader context, before everyone and his brother was using a distilled version of quantum theory to explain or justify their views on just about everything. So not only might it be informative and inspiring it is also useful for those tracking the contemporary efforts at blending science and spirituality.
January 17, 2011
This was an interesting book that explores the notion that man needs to make order out of all things. It questions if there are really laws that govern the universe or if we are using science to establish and order and to try to explain life. Furthermore, the book also discusses religion as another form of creating order, along with culture. A refreshing change from the pure science realm.
August 2, 2018
“It was the mathematician Claude Shannon, among others, who first embraced the concept of information to help us better understand how to send signals through the random noise of a telephone line. Information theory proved to be a powerful tool. Thinking in terms of bits has allowed us to develop the field of computer science, in which we learn how to represent the world with patterns of information. So successful are our endeavors that some physicists and computer scientists believe that perhaps information is not a human invention but something as real, as physical, as matter and energy. And now a handful of researchers have come to believe that information may be the most real of all. Simulated creatures would have no way of knowing they are simulations, the argument goes. And, for that matter, how do we know that we are not simulations ourselves, running on a computer in some other universe?
Nature, it seems, has honed us into informavores so voracious that some can persuade themselves that there is nothing but information. Samuel Johnson rejected Bishop Berkeley’s solipsistic views of reality by kicking a rock. Little did Johnson know that he might have been pure information himself, “kicking” a data structure called rock, “feeling” processes referred to as hardness and pain.”
Nature, it seems, has honed us into informavores so voracious that some can persuade themselves that there is nothing but information. Samuel Johnson rejected Bishop Berkeley’s solipsistic views of reality by kicking a rock. Little did Johnson know that he might have been pure information himself, “kicking” a data structure called rock, “feeling” processes referred to as hardness and pain.”
November 28, 2019
DNF. I just couldn't get into it. I didn't understand what was being discussed, so it felt like there was a wall between me & the book. The language didn't feel accessible to me, as a layperson, which is disappointing because i like the premise (of science relying as much on belief as religion & spirituality, & looking into that concept). Once moment, i thought i was getting it; the next, i realized i still had no idea what was being said.
Also, since it's from the late '90s, i kept wondering what's changed in science since then, which is kind of distracting. Like, are the author's questions still as valid, based on any other research that's taken place since the book was published? Are they even more valid? Et cetera.
I just wish the book was written in a way that people like me, a non-scientist, could understand what was being talked about.
Also, since it's from the late '90s, i kept wondering what's changed in science since then, which is kind of distracting. Like, are the author's questions still as valid, based on any other research that's taken place since the book was published? Are they even more valid? Et cetera.
I just wish the book was written in a way that people like me, a non-scientist, could understand what was being talked about.
June 12, 2020
This covers familiar ground, at too great a length, but it's a solid, clear introduction to fundamental physics and the promise of complexity studies and the nature of life. The focus on the cultural milieu of Santa Fe and the human predilection for explanatory schemes is inspired. I wanted more of that. I hate to punish a book for being old. A new edition, written from the bones out would be welcome. Maybe I should write it.
This is a "should read" if ever I read one.
This is a "should read" if ever I read one.
October 21, 2022
Many words to discuss the interplay of science, thought, and our world.
May 17, 2008
Really outstanding - phenomenal. A discussion of how quantum mechanics and evolution come together in modern views of the centrality of information processing and inherent hierarchy informing the origin of life. Fantastic!
Read
May 22, 2011an amazing trip through fringe physics and human spiritualities.
a guy i was briefly friends with, jonathan, thinks science and spirituality are merging. it is pretty hard not to stay up all night talking to him. http://www.number27.org/statement.html
a guy i was briefly friends with, jonathan, thinks science and spirituality are merging. it is pretty hard not to stay up all night talking to him. http://www.number27.org/statement.html
February 3, 2008
wow. journey through modern science - questions the foundation of it as a social construction rather than a construction of truths...
June 10, 2008
This book definitely rocked my "science versus religion" mentality. I seriously enjoyed it; shifted my way of thinking and expanded my perspective.
Currently reading
June 21, 2008Weird how science and theological "faith/theory/belief" is crossing paths these days. very interesting...
February 19, 2010
Heavy read. Very thought provoking.
October 4, 2009
science and fatih really can combine and thoughts might have mass.
June 30, 2010
The depth of detail is sometimes tedious but there are a lot of interesting ideas.
January 5, 2011
He says Catholicism, New Age shamanism, Indian superstition and quantum mechanics are the same thing. Not quite I agree.
August 4, 2011
A book which elegantly expands on the title. A brilliantly written beautiful read.
December 17, 2017
Sparked a lively discussion in my men's book group, but a bit too dense a work for non-scientists to wade through.
July 20, 2013
This books dares to point out the constrictions and facilities in the Abrahamic religions. If you are a christian, I dare you to read it with an open mind.
Want to read
January 4, 2015I registered a book at BookCrossing.com!
http://www.BookCrossing.com/journal/13101339
http://www.BookCrossing.com/journal/13101339
April 25, 2016
The book is a sweeping collage of historic geology, epistemology, and science. The writing is poetic and dense. It is a multi-course banquet of ideas which must be savored slowly.
January 28, 2017
great bringing-together of science, philosophy, religion, etc.
Displaying 1 - 26 of 26 reviews