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The Forgotten Tudor Women: Margaret Douglas, Mary Howard & Mary Shelton
Everyone knows that Henry VIII had six wives, two sisters and two daughters. All of these women received attention in academic circles and are the subjects of countless biographies. Not many people, however, realize that Henry VIII also had a niece, a daughter-in-law and a mistress, who were close friends, but who today remain on the fringes of history.
Margaret Douglas was the daughter of Henry VIII’s elder sister Margaret, Queen of Scotland. She was imprisoned thrice, and each time, as she admitted, “not for matters of treason, but for love matters”. Her legacy includes marrying her son to Mary, Queen of Scots, and playing the doting grandmother to King James VI and I.
Mary Howard was the daughter of Thomas Howard, third Duke of Norfolk, leading peer of the Tudor court. She served as maid of honour to her first cousin, Anne Boleyn, and married Henry VIII’s illegitimate but acknowledged son, Henry Fitzroy, Duke of Richmond. Widowed at the age of seventeen, Mary fought for her rightful jointure and was, by her father’s admission, “too wise for a woman”.
Mary Shelton, like Mary Howard, was related to Anne Boleyn and became her servant at court. Beautiful and skilled in poetry, Mary attracted Henry VIII’s attention and became his mistress in 1535, but many don’t realize how important her contributions were to the literary scene of the time.
This book moves Margaret Douglas, Mary Howard and Mary Shelton from the footnotes of history into the spotlight, where they deserve to shine along with their more famous contemporaries.
Margaret Douglas was the daughter of Henry VIII’s elder sister Margaret, Queen of Scotland. She was imprisoned thrice, and each time, as she admitted, “not for matters of treason, but for love matters”. Her legacy includes marrying her son to Mary, Queen of Scots, and playing the doting grandmother to King James VI and I.
Mary Howard was the daughter of Thomas Howard, third Duke of Norfolk, leading peer of the Tudor court. She served as maid of honour to her first cousin, Anne Boleyn, and married Henry VIII’s illegitimate but acknowledged son, Henry Fitzroy, Duke of Richmond. Widowed at the age of seventeen, Mary fought for her rightful jointure and was, by her father’s admission, “too wise for a woman”.
Mary Shelton, like Mary Howard, was related to Anne Boleyn and became her servant at court. Beautiful and skilled in poetry, Mary attracted Henry VIII’s attention and became his mistress in 1535, but many don’t realize how important her contributions were to the literary scene of the time.
This book moves Margaret Douglas, Mary Howard and Mary Shelton from the footnotes of history into the spotlight, where they deserve to shine along with their more famous contemporaries.
206 pages, Kindle Edition
First published February 4, 2015
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 56 reviews
December 12, 2018
I am a person who will read whatever I can about the fascinating Tudor period in England's history. The pomp, the circumstance, the royalty, the backstabbing, the peril, daily life - all of it fascinates me. I was thrilled to find this book about the women behind the scenes - the ones who held positions in court serving the Queen and other women born (or married into) royalty.
Their lives and livelihood depend on their ability to serve and all that entails with regard to knowing when to bow, how low to bow, keeping confidences, making sure never to utter a word that can be taken as treason, and devoting every single moment to the whims and requirements of the women they served. To be given a post in court was an incredible honor, and one that was also treacherous. More than a few found themselves thrown out in dishonor, accused by jealous "friends" of committing crimes against the King or Queen, and more than one was executed for treason, whether proven or not. Many more found themselves imprisoned in the famous tower.
However, also among these chosen few, were some who enjoyed lifelong friendships for those they served, and some began serving when quite young.
The book was well researched and well written. It is hard to keep some of the people straight, as many had the same first names and were sometimes also known by other names if the King or Queen desired to reward them with an "up" in their status. If you aren't well versed in Tudor history, take a moment to remind yourself of the succession of throne in that period, mainly from Henry VI on through to Queen Elizabeth, the last of the Tudors to reign.
Their lives and livelihood depend on their ability to serve and all that entails with regard to knowing when to bow, how low to bow, keeping confidences, making sure never to utter a word that can be taken as treason, and devoting every single moment to the whims and requirements of the women they served. To be given a post in court was an incredible honor, and one that was also treacherous. More than a few found themselves thrown out in dishonor, accused by jealous "friends" of committing crimes against the King or Queen, and more than one was executed for treason, whether proven or not. Many more found themselves imprisoned in the famous tower.
However, also among these chosen few, were some who enjoyed lifelong friendships for those they served, and some began serving when quite young.
The book was well researched and well written. It is hard to keep some of the people straight, as many had the same first names and were sometimes also known by other names if the King or Queen desired to reward them with an "up" in their status. If you aren't well versed in Tudor history, take a moment to remind yourself of the succession of throne in that period, mainly from Henry VI on through to Queen Elizabeth, the last of the Tudors to reign.
November 14, 2017
Holy Cow I am so glad I wasn't a Tudor. People got chucked in the tower and beheaded for allowing their kids to get married without the crown's permission. Am a fully convinced that from Henry VIII on they were loony.
This tells the stories of 3 women of the Tudor court who managed to die of natural causes.
Vocab
disport - enjoy oneself unrestrainedly; frolic
naissance - the birth or origination of something or somebody
chrisom - a white robe put on a child at baptism.
medicaments - a substance used for medical treatment.
This tells the stories of 3 women of the Tudor court who managed to die of natural causes.
Vocab
disport - enjoy oneself unrestrainedly; frolic
naissance - the birth or origination of something or somebody
chrisom - a white robe put on a child at baptism.
medicaments - a substance used for medical treatment.
September 23, 2021
This was a very informative book on the lives of the so-called forgotten women of the Tudor court. I have to admit that it was a little difficult to get my head around all the different generations because the women of the day all seemed to be called Mary, Margaret or Elizabeth, even in the same family three generations could be called by the same name. Not only that but they also had the same title like, My Lady of Norfolk. I think it would have been quite fun to walk into the court and call out at the top of my voice ' Lady Mary' and watch all the females from the age of four to seventy come forward. This made it confusing at times to work out which of the lady's I was reading about but that aside it was very interesting.
December 23, 2019
This was a fun little book and I loved the idea of telling the life stories of some of the more overlooked women of Henry VIII's court.Although,the organization was slightly odd starting with Margaret Douglas story and abruptly switching to Mary Howard and Mary Shelton and then going back to Margaret at the end.I liked that the author clearly noted her sources at the end of each chapter and that the writing was concise which is a nice change sometimes from more descriptive writing.As for the research I liked that first hand sources were used but found that the author tended to use secondary sources with no research of her own.Overall though enjoyable read.
September 15, 2017
"Mary Howard's presence was not recorded either at the christening of the prince or at the Queen's funeral" - and that's probably because, as much as the author would like Howard to be constantly at the centre of the Tudor court, much of the time she simply wasn't, and this serves as an example of the negative information that fills out some of this book: the places where these women are not.
Overall, this is a brisk and fairly superficial romp through the lives of Mary Howard, Mary Shelton and Margaret Douglas - hardly "forgotten" women any of them (Howard was first cousin to both Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard, amongst other important Howard relatives; Shelton was another Boleyn cousin and mistress to Henry VIII; Douglas was niece to Henry VIII, mother-in-law to Mary Queen of Scots). Much of the first half of the book is taken up with re-telling (again...) the story of Anne Boleyn; the second half is better though, again, there's nothing new here. Soberton basically summarises from other people's books and hasn't done any original or archival research of her own.
Good if you want a brisk, unnuanced and straightforward compilation of the facts of these women's lives: 2.5 stars rounded up.
Overall, this is a brisk and fairly superficial romp through the lives of Mary Howard, Mary Shelton and Margaret Douglas - hardly "forgotten" women any of them (Howard was first cousin to both Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard, amongst other important Howard relatives; Shelton was another Boleyn cousin and mistress to Henry VIII; Douglas was niece to Henry VIII, mother-in-law to Mary Queen of Scots). Much of the first half of the book is taken up with re-telling (again...) the story of Anne Boleyn; the second half is better though, again, there's nothing new here. Soberton basically summarises from other people's books and hasn't done any original or archival research of her own.
Good if you want a brisk, unnuanced and straightforward compilation of the facts of these women's lives: 2.5 stars rounded up.
June 14, 2015
Très intéressant. Un livre qui démontre bien des ramifications entre certains événements...et beaucoup de consanguinité lol Bon choix les filles
June 15, 2017
Sylvia Barbara Soberton has written an interesting history about three women who graced the Tudor court and very often get lost in the shuffle. Margaret Douglas, Henry's niece is the product of her mother's marriage to a Scottish lord and the ancestor to today's ruling family. Margaret, Henry's sister is married off to the Scot's King when she was barely a woman and is shipped off to cement a northern alliance for the Tudor family. When her husband dies, she makes an illegal marriage to one of his earls and enters into a fiery union that produces her daughter Margaret. Margaret's life is the mother of all custody battles and she is used as a pawn in both countries. Henry needs her as he arbitrarily legitimizes and then illegitimizes his daughters. Her life is hijacked by the court and her poignant story is deeply detailed.She ends up with the Earl of Lenox, and when her son marries Mary Queen of Scots, her niece, the tangled family tapestry molds to make her the ancestor of the current Queen's family. Mary Howard is the widow of Henry's illegitimate son, who's life seems to derail with his death and she spends the rest of it seeking to find a place for herself. She remained the ""poorest widow of the land" for the rest of her life. Mary Shelton, the shadowy cousin of Ann Boleyn is given as much substance as the meager records allow. This was an interesting slice of life of the peripheral players of the Tudor court.
February 18, 2020
A very interesting take on other women in the Tudor dynasty. With all the marriages, the list of who is related to which powerful faction in the Tudor court gets a bit complicated. A fascinating look at women who did not let themselves be pawns in the marriage games.
October 11, 2025
Great read, but I realized that Tudor England was like a telenovela. Enjoyed learning about these great women.
April 28, 2015
Bravo, Bravo !!! Well researched information on the Tudor Women, their family lineages, and how they fit into history. Some rather dry historical facts, nicely woven into an easy to read, entertaining book. I quite enjoyed this.
March 23, 2022
This was a good interesting and educational book about three women of the Tudor Era. After the reader gets used to separating all the Annes, Marys, and Margaret...the book gets better. Also, since these women married more than once, keeping track of their ancestry, children, and friends gets a bit confusing.
But if you continue on, most of that starts to not matter. The reader becomes interested in the 3 women and the circumstances in their lives. Henry VIII features prominently (in fact he had a brief affair with one of the women). Other Tudors, not so much.
The writing is almost like a textbook and while the words do flow, this isn't a fictional novel. It is not written from the character's (1st person) point of view. The stories are told matter of factly and sometimes where the author is in the timeline can be a bit confusing.
I wanted to LOVE this book. I've studied history and though I've heard about these women, I didn't know much about any of them. If you can get past the style of writing the information contained in this book was very interesting.
If you truly love the Tudor Era, you will want to read this book.
But if you continue on, most of that starts to not matter. The reader becomes interested in the 3 women and the circumstances in their lives. Henry VIII features prominently (in fact he had a brief affair with one of the women). Other Tudors, not so much.
The writing is almost like a textbook and while the words do flow, this isn't a fictional novel. It is not written from the character's (1st person) point of view. The stories are told matter of factly and sometimes where the author is in the timeline can be a bit confusing.
I wanted to LOVE this book. I've studied history and though I've heard about these women, I didn't know much about any of them. If you can get past the style of writing the information contained in this book was very interesting.
If you truly love the Tudor Era, you will want to read this book.
July 12, 2017
I read the print, not the Kindle edition. This is pretty well done, all taken into consideration. It seems to have been self-published, and may well be a dissertation worked up into book format. There were some misspellings and typos, but nothing too disastrous. The flow of the narrative is relatively clear, and the research done on her topics is thorough. This gives additional background to those that are interested in this time period, and each of the three "forgotten women" comes through as an individual, although the three of them were friends during certain times of their lives. I'd dfinitely recommend it.
December 1, 2022
While there are some interesting and well-researched sections, other parts fall into the twin sins of history books on less well documented persons - unsupported speculation and "padding out" of details that have little to do with the subject at hand. The latter is especially concerning here since this is NOT a long book. Also, I feel like the author erred in putting a glossary of names at the beginning of the book (rather then at the end), as readers familiar with the period aren't going to get anything new from it, and general readers may - or based on other reviews, will - find off-putting. I give this a very low 3 stars.
July 21, 2017
A bit pushed towards the end but good
This was a great alternative to the usual historical reflections - well written, taking in many points of view and without the 'one-upmanship' that many books of this type seem to end up being. My only criticism, and this may well be downfall rather than the author's, is that by the end I was finding it difficult to keep track of 'who was who' through the generations. Still liked it though and well worth a go.
This was a great alternative to the usual historical reflections - well written, taking in many points of view and without the 'one-upmanship' that many books of this type seem to end up being. My only criticism, and this may well be downfall rather than the author's, is that by the end I was finding it difficult to keep track of 'who was who' through the generations. Still liked it though and well worth a go.
April 23, 2019
For English her- story buffs
Though the names did indeed tend to get tangled, this is a well written and annotated work on the other Marys in the Tudor age. All of the political scheming and maneuvering of the time seems to have come as natural as breathing to all and sundry. Never knowing from one moment to the next whether you were a cherished friend/relative or a Tower inmate must have made for some crazy times. All in all, a good read.
Though the names did indeed tend to get tangled, this is a well written and annotated work on the other Marys in the Tudor age. All of the political scheming and maneuvering of the time seems to have come as natural as breathing to all and sundry. Never knowing from one moment to the next whether you were a cherished friend/relative or a Tower inmate must have made for some crazy times. All in all, a good read.
June 17, 2017
3.5 stars rounded up to 4. I enjoyed a lot of it and the rest was fine. It did not flow really well
Mary Howard's part of it really got down in the weeds; my feeling is that could have been shortened, especially all the places she was not or did not do something.
I do enjoy Soberton's work but Great Ladies was a more enjoyable read.
Mary Howard's part of it really got down in the weeds; my feeling is that could have been shortened, especially all the places she was not or did not do something.
I do enjoy Soberton's work but Great Ladies was a more enjoyable read.
January 8, 2022
Lesser known women of the past still have a lot to say. When you look thru the bibliography and endnotes, you realize the digging the author had to go through to find more on the lives of these women. Neither saint or great sinner, these ladies struggled to survive Tudor England with their wits and friendships.
May 10, 2017
Hard to follow
I would recommend this book to academia s, scholars and researchers. It s hard to differentiate between the three Mary's, hard to identify why they are unique from one another. Their lives seem to be reflective of the time in which they lived.
I would recommend this book to academia s, scholars and researchers. It s hard to differentiate between the three Mary's, hard to identify why they are unique from one another. Their lives seem to be reflective of the time in which they lived.
April 23, 2019
Secrets and subterfuge
Gives the reader an understanding of the manipulation and schemes people used to influence events. This Tudor era was a difficult time to live and try to survive.
Gives the reader an understanding of the manipulation and schemes people used to influence events. This Tudor era was a difficult time to live and try to survive.
April 3, 2020
Disappointed
I settled into this book with real enthusiasm. It is superbly researched, engaging to read....And very, very short. Resembling a decent academic assignment more than a book, I am afraid I felt rather short-term changed.
I settled into this book with real enthusiasm. It is superbly researched, engaging to read....And very, very short. Resembling a decent academic assignment more than a book, I am afraid I felt rather short-term changed.
March 16, 2017
It's always interesting to hear about the people history 'forgot'; these three women are influential and important but not often discussed. However, this book doesn't really seem to focus much on them - particularly in the case of Mary Howard it seemed more focused on how closely related to Anne Boleyn she was. I felt Shelton's story was very quickly skimmed over, while Margaret's again was more about her descendants than her own life.
It's a good book for an overview, but it's not very in-depth. It only really skims the surface, and it seems to rely heavily on other people's research. Every so often the author declares something as likely to have/have not happened with fairly flakey justification; I'd have liked to see stronger reasoning in these cases.
I enjoyed reading about 'other' women of the Tudor court, but felt this book didn't go as far as I'd have liked. It's a very quick read - I finished it in a matter of hours.
It's a good book for an overview, but it's not very in-depth. It only really skims the surface, and it seems to rely heavily on other people's research. Every so often the author declares something as likely to have/have not happened with fairly flakey justification; I'd have liked to see stronger reasoning in these cases.
I enjoyed reading about 'other' women of the Tudor court, but felt this book didn't go as far as I'd have liked. It's a very quick read - I finished it in a matter of hours.
June 6, 2017
A good read
Everything I knew and thought I knew was here but very interesting especially if you like reading about English royal family
Everything I knew and thought I knew was here but very interesting especially if you like reading about English royal family
June 20, 2017
Learned some new things about the Tudor era
July 17, 2017
Forgotten Tudor Women
An excellent read from Sylvia Soberton. I thought it would be difficult to read with all the Mary's and Margaret's but it was not the case with this book.
An excellent read from Sylvia Soberton. I thought it would be difficult to read with all the Mary's and Margaret's but it was not the case with this book.
September 15, 2020
Good Read
It was very well done. I was glad to find out more about these Tudor ladies and their connections to Henry VIII
It was very well done. I was glad to find out more about these Tudor ladies and their connections to Henry VIII
January 19, 2021
Book 2 is as good as book 1 the Forgotten Tudor Women highly recommended
March 10, 2021
Interesting book about lesser know but important Tudor women. Has a great bibliography and notes.
June 1, 2021
This was an interesting take on Tudor women that we don't talk about or hear about much. It also helps to fill in details about some of history's most followed figures, whether you love them or hate them. The one thing that I struggled with reading this book it that everyone seemed to name their daughters the same thing, which made it tricky at times to follow which Mary Tudor or Margaret Howard was being talked about.
Overall I enjoyed reading this book and would recommend it to anyone who is an English history lover, a Tudor history lover, or any of that combination!
Overall I enjoyed reading this book and would recommend it to anyone who is an English history lover, a Tudor history lover, or any of that combination!
July 10, 2021
Solidly researched work covering the lives of minor Tudor nobles, think mother of and sister of. Offers insights into Tudor societal mores along with a bit of backstairs gossip.
July 9, 2022
Short biographies of "forgotten" Tudor women - women on fringes of the Tudor court who somehow managed to keep their heads attached to their bodies. This is a fun read if you're a Tudor fanatic.
Displaying 1 - 30 of 56 reviews